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I know that Farage and some of the other former UKIP supporters at the top of the party have left to form the Brexit party. But what about the people in UKIP who used to knock on doors, leaflet and the like? It could well be the Brexit party is top heavy without anybody on the ground. I simply cannot believe the Brexit party is anything but a minor irritant to the main parties. 2010 showed that even when the LD were polling at levels similar to the two main parties that on election day the LD vote was substantially down compared to opinion polls and they had a net loss of seats! The LD were an established party with lots of members, money and well organised party in each seat. The Brexit party is just a conduit of the Brexit supporting media to get the UK to leave the EU. Nothing more or less than that.DavidL said:There are currently 313 Conservative MPs plus 10 DUP. Given the absence of the 7 Sinn Fein plus the speaker I make that an overall majority of 2. Anyone thinking that getting rid of the likes of Steve Baker should be very careful about what they wish for. 4-5 defections makes any pretense that this government, even on the days that the DUP support them, has a majority as much of a fantasy as most of the rest of our politics.
If it came to a snap election I think the Brexit party might fancy their chances more than those who have disappeared to the CUKs. The difference in their launches and organisation to date has been stark. Any CUKs supporting a VONC really better have a plan B, career wise.0 -
I've seen a few each from Tories, LibDems and Greens here in deepest Surrey - Labour has about 20 up that I know of (I'm of course more likely to know about those), but nobody's made a serious effort in that respect.matt said:
I saw a LD diamond shape today. It didn’t say “Winning here”, it was “Trying hard” or something similar. Honest, I suppose, although I’m unconvinced by the effort level. Nothing from Labour, who, if posters h3re are to be believed, are everywhere. This seat is, at a national level, one they would think they could win.Recidivist said:
The only evidence of any campaigning I've seen is a few posts on here and a large Tory poster on a gate to a field. (The Conservatives do well in fields in this rural part of the South East.) If nobody is getting the vote out I wonder how many will show up?
What was interesting about the weekend canvassing (with the usual reservations about anecdata) was that (a) there is some movement from Lab to LibDem from middle-class Remainers and (b) there is a hardening of the Labour working-class vote. There's really quite a lot of interest - it's relatively rare for a local election to meet voters who say they couldn't give a toss, won't bother, etc. And Brexit is receding as the key issue for the majority (may well be different in the Euros) - issues like housing and services are coming to the fore.
My view remains that the LibDems will do well on Thursday, Labour OK, Tories poorly but not disastrously.0 -
It's just an ego trip. He's raised some cash and is having a ball doing all the fun stuff and skipping the tedious policy bit. The biggest tell is not fielding any local council candidates. If you want to get a party going that has a future that would be literally the first thing you should do.The_Taxman said:
I know that Farage and some of the other former UKIP supporters at the top of the party have left to form the Brexit party. But what about the people in UKIP who used to knock on doors, leaflet and the like? It could well be the Brexit party is top heavy without anybody on the ground. I simply cannot believe the Brexit party is anything but a minor irritant to the main parties. 2010 showed that even when the LD were polling at levels similar to the two main parties that on election day the LD vote was substantially down compared to opinion polls and they had a net loss of seats! The LD were an established party with lots of members, money and well organised party in each seat. The Brexit party is just a conduit of the Brexit supporting media to get the UK to leave the EU. Nothing more or less than that.DavidL said:There are currently 313 Conservative MPs plus 10 DUP. Given the absence of the 7 Sinn Fein plus the speaker I make that an overall majority of 2. Anyone thinking that getting rid of the likes of Steve Baker should be very careful about what they wish for. 4-5 defections makes any pretense that this government, even on the days that the DUP support them, has a majority as much of a fantasy as most of the rest of our politics.
If it came to a snap election I think the Brexit party might fancy their chances more than those who have disappeared to the CUKs. The difference in their launches and organisation to date has been stark. Any CUKs supporting a VONC really better have a plan B, career wise.
I don't believe he even has the 50,000 or so small donors that are supposed to have stumped up the thick end of a million quid between them. I think he has a rich backer somewhere picking up the tab. That's how it seems to me anyway.0 -
If your point is that immigration was a big driver of Brexit, I agree with you. I'd go further. It's not even a topic for debate that it was. It's a fact. The idea being that there are too many of 'them' and as a consequence 'we' are getting squeezed and 'our' needs overlooked.brendan16 said:They are - because of who is perceived as driving the population growth, competition and overcrowding.
If you live in a block of flats or a terraced house - you are more likely to care about your neighbours and who they are as you can hear them and see them more often and they can be the cause of stress due to noise or behaviour. If you live in a leafy detached probably less of a concern - as they aren't 'on top of you'.
And that is what leads to clashes of 'identity' - and why the well of middle classes in their leafy detacheds have less of an issue with it.
And the other big driver was 'sovereignty' - the idea that 'we' are being ruled by 'them'.
In the first of these, 'we' = the indigenous working class and 'they' = incomers from overseas.
And in the second, 'we' = Westminster and 'they' = Brussels.
The link? Identity. Both are about identity. Brexit is a passive aggressive Identity Project.0 -
I’m no doubt over-reading between the lines, but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the money trail ends in Brecqhou.Recidivist said:
It's just an ego trip. He's raised some cash and is having a ball doing all the fun stuff and skipping the tedious policy bit. The biggest tell is not fielding any local council candidates. If you want to get a party going that has a future that would be literally the first thing you should do.The_Taxman said:
I know that Farage and some of the other former UKIP supporters at the top of the party have left to form the Brexit party. But what about the people in UKIP who used to knock on doors, leaflet and the like? It could well be the Brexit party is top heavy without anybody on the ground. I simply cannot believe the Brexit party is anything but a minor irritant to the main parties. 2010 showed that even when the LD were polling at levels similar to the two main parties that on election day the LD vote was substantially down compared to opinion polls and they had a net loss of seats! The LD were an established party with lots of members, money and well organised party in each seat. The Brexit party is just a conduit of the Brexit supporting media to get the UK to leave the EU. Nothing more or less than that.DavidL said:There are currently 313 Conservative MPs plus 10 DUP. Given the absence of the 7 Sinn Fein plus the speaker I make that an overall majority of 2. Anyone thinking that getting rid of the likes of Steve Baker should be very careful about what they wish for. 4-5 defections makes any pretense that this government, even on the days that the DUP support them, has a majority as much of a fantasy as most of the rest of our politics.
If it came to a snap election I think the Brexit party might fancy their chances more than those who have disappeared to the CUKs. The difference in their launches and organisation to date has been stark. Any CUKs supporting a VONC really better have a plan B, career wise.
I don't believe he even has the 50,000 or so small donors that are supposed to have stumped up the thick end of a million quid between them. I think he has a rich backer somewhere picking up the tab. That's how it seems to me anyway.0 -
Yes, I agree. A million pounds does not go far in a political party either even if it had been raised to fight a UK wide campaign! Mind you the media seem to be keen to raise the pressure against the PM but she as a former Party Chairperson and will know what it take for a party not to just compete but win on the ground. She will know it is a hollow threat although it still baffles me why the Tories were targeting resources on safe Labour seats in 2017! No point in targeting seats where you won't win whilst ignoring ones you could.Recidivist said:
It's just an ego trip. He's raised some cash and is having a ball doing all the fun stuff and skipping the tedious policy bit. The biggest tell is not fielding any local council candidates. If you want to get a party going that has a future that would be literally the first thing you should do.The_Taxman said:
I know that Farage and some of the other former UKIP supporters at the top of the party have left to form the Brexit party. But what about the people in UKIP who used to knock on doors, leaflet and the like? It could well be the Brexit party is top heavy without anybody on the ground. I simply cannot believe the Brexit party is anything but a minor irritant to the main parties. 2010 showed that even when the LD were polling at levels similar to the two main parties that on election day the LD vote was substantially down compared to opinion polls and they had a net loss of seats! The LD were an established party with lots of members, money and well organised party in each seat. The Brexit party is just a conduit of the Brexit supporting media to get the UK to leave the EU. Nothing more or less than that.DavidL said:There are currently 313 Conservative MPs plus 10 DUP. Given the absence of the 7 Sinn Fein plus the speaker I make that an overall majority of 2. Anyone thinking that getting rid of the likes of Steve Baker should be very careful about what they wish for. 4-5 defections makes any pretense that this government, even on the days that the DUP support them, has a majority as much of a fantasy as most of the rest of our politics.
If it came to a snap election I think the Brexit party might fancy their chances more than those who have disappeared to the CUKs. The difference in their launches and organisation to date has been stark. Any CUKs supporting a VONC really better have a plan B, career wise.
I don't believe he even has the 50,000 or so small donors that are supposed to have stumped up the thick end of a million quid between them. I think he has a rich backer somewhere picking up the tab. That's how it seems to me anyway.0 -
or it could just be people pissed off that their elected representatives arent looking after the electorate, which is sort of their day job,kinabalu said:
If your point is that immigration was a big driver of Brexit, I agree with you. I'd go further. It's not even a topic for debate that it was. It's a fact. The idea being that there are too many of 'them' and as a consequence 'we' are getting squeezed and 'our' needs overlooked.brendan16 said:They are - because of who is perceived as driving the population growth, competition and overcrowding.
If you live in a block of flats or a terraced house - you are more likely to care about your neighbours and who they are as you can hear them and see them more often and they can be the cause of stress due to noise or behaviour. If you live in a leafy detached probably less of a concern - as they aren't 'on top of you'.
And that is what leads to clashes of 'identity' - and why the well of middle classes in their leafy detacheds have less of an issue with it.
And the other big driver was 'sovereignty' - the idea that 'we' are being ruled by 'them'.
In the first of these, 'we' = the indigenous working class and 'they' = incomers from overseas.
And in the second, 'we' = Westminster and 'they' = Brussels.
The link? Identity. Both are about identity. Brexit is a passive aggressive Identity Project.0 -
Parenthetically, one of the entirely-unsung achievements of Scotland is the word "outwith". It's incredibly useful and I've used it several times.Scott_P said:0 -
There can't be that many Labour voters at all in your patch I wouldn't have thought.NickPalmer said:
I've seen a few each from Tories, LibDems and Greens here in deepest Surrey - Labour has about 20 up that I know of (I'm of course more likely to know about those), but nobody's made a serious effort in that respect.matt said:
I saw a LD diamond shape today. It didn’t say “Winning here”, it was “Trying hard” or something similar. Honest, I suppose, although I’m unconvinced by the effort level. Nothing from Labour, who, if posters h3re are to be believed, are everywhere. This seat is, at a national level, one they would think they could win.Recidivist said:
The only evidence of any campaigning I've seen is a few posts on here and a large Tory poster on a gate to a field. (The Conservatives do well in fields in this rural part of the South East.) If nobody is getting the vote out I wonder how many will show up?
What was interesting about the weekend canvassing (with the usual reservations about anecdata) was that (a) there is some movement from Lab to LibDem from middle-class Remainers and (b) there is a hardening of the Labour working-class vote. There's really quite a lot of interest - it's relatively rare for a local election to meet voters who say they couldn't give a toss, won't bother, etc. And Brexit is receding as the key issue for the majority (may well be different in the Euros) - issues like housing and services are coming to the fore.
My view remains that the LibDems will do well on Thursday, Labour OK, Tories poorly but not disastrously.0 -
Don't worry you Leavers are going to get the full Brexit 'dividend.'Alanbrooke said:
or it could just be people pissed off that their elected representatives arent looking after the electorate, which is sort of their day job,kinabalu said:
If your point is that immigration was a big driver of Brexit, I agree with you. I'd go further. It's not even a topic for debate that it was. It's a fact. The idea being that there are too many of 'them' and as a consequence 'we' are getting squeezed and 'our' needs overlooked.brendan16 said:They are - because of who is perceived as driving the population growth, competition and overcrowding.
If you live in a block of flats or a terraced house - you are more likely to care about your neighbours and who they are as you can hear them and see them more often and they can be the cause of stress due to noise or behaviour. If you live in a leafy detached probably less of a concern - as they aren't 'on top of you'.
And that is what leads to clashes of 'identity' - and why the well of middle classes in their leafy detacheds have less of an issue with it.
And the other big driver was 'sovereignty' - the idea that 'we' are being ruled by 'them'.
In the first of these, 'we' = the indigenous working class and 'they' = incomers from overseas.
And in the second, 'we' = Westminster and 'they' = Brussels.
The link? Identity. Both are about identity. Brexit is a passive aggressive Identity Project.0 -
Without used to have the same meaning in English English, as in:viewcode said:
Parenthetically, one of the entirely-unsung achievements of Scotland is the word "outwith". It's incredibly useful and I've used it several times.Scott_P said:
There is a green hill far away,
Without a city wall
Where our dear Lord was crucified;
Who died to save us all.0 -
As a kid I always imagined it was a green hill on which no wall stood. It seemed a curious detail to devote a whole line to.Ishmael_Z said:
Without used to have the same meaning in English English, as in:viewcode said:
Parenthetically, one of the entirely-unsung achievements of Scotland is the word "outwith". It's incredibly useful and I've used it several times.Scott_P said:
There is a green hill far away,
Without a city wall
Where our dear Lord was crucified;
Who died to save us all.0 -
If you concentrate on online adverts and self funding ticketed rallies you could probably do enough with a million to keep in the limelight. Which is all he really wants to do.The_Taxman said:
Yes, I agree. A million pounds does not go far in a political party either even if it had been raised to fight a UK wide campaign! Mind you the media seem to be keen to raise the pressure against the PM but she as a former Party Chairperson and will know what it take for a party not to just compete but win on the ground. She will know it is a hollow threat although it still baffles me why the Tories were targeting resources on safe Labour seats in 2017! No point in targeting seats where you won't win whilst ignoring ones you could.Recidivist said:
It's just an ego trip. He's raised some cash and is having a ball doing all the fun stuff and skipping the tedious policy bit. The biggest tell is not fielding any local council candidates. If you want to get a party going that has a future that would be literally the first thing you should do.The_Taxman said:
I know that Farage and some of the other former UKIP supporters at the top of the party have left to form the Brexit party. But what about the people in UKIP who used to knock on doors, leaflet and the like? It could well be the Brexit party is top heavy without anybody on the ground. I simply cannot believe the Brexit party is anything but a minor irritant to the main parties. 2010 showed that even when the LD were polling at levels similar to the two main parties that on election day the LD vote was substantially down compared to opinion polls and they had a net loss of seats! The LD were an established party with lots of members, money and well organised party in each seat. The Brexit party is just a conduit of the Brexit supporting media to get the UK to leave the EU. Nothing more or less than that.DavidL said:There are currently 313 Conservative MPs plus 10 DUP. Given the absence of the 7 Sinn Fein plus the speaker I make that an overall majority of 2. Anyone thinking that getting rid of the likes of Steve Baker should be very careful about what they wish for. 4-5 defections makes any pretense that this government, even on the days that the DUP support them, has a majority as much of a fantasy as most of the rest of our .
If it came to a snap election I think the Brexit party might fancy their chances more than those who have disappeared to the CUKs. The difference in their launches and organisation to date has been stark. Any CUKs supporting a VONC really better have a plan B, career wise.
I don't believe he even has the 50,000 or so small donors that are supposed to have stumped up the thick end of a million quid between them. I think he has a rich backer somewhere picking up the tab. That's how it seems to me anyway.0 -
Still does surely. Or at least it did when in 1984 Maggie was saying 'We had to fight the enemy without in the Falklands. We always have to be aware of the enemy within, which is much more difficult to fight and more dangerous to liberty.'Ishmael_Z said:
Without used to have the same meaning in English English, as in:viewcode said:
Parenthetically, one of the entirely-unsung achievements of Scotland is the word "outwith". It's incredibly useful and I've used it several times.Scott_P said:
There is a green hill far away,
Without a city wall
Where our dear Lord was crucified;
Who died to save us all.0 -
I'll go with that - a passive aggressive Identity Project that achieved lift off due to people being pissed off with being neglected by their politicians.Alanbrooke said:or it could just be people pissed off that their elected representatives arent looking after the electorate, which is sort of their day job,
At least as regards the Leave voters in post industrial areas. The Neglected Ones.
But the critical mass of Leave sentiment comes from true blue Tory voters in the shires. Does not ring quite so true there.
Why are the massed ranks of the Blazer Brigade so keen to leave the EU?
I think I know.0 -
Looks like being a 75%+ turnout in Spain for today’s general election. That will be 10 or so points up on the 2016 vote. On the face of it this could be good news for both PSOE and Vox. It’s certainly hard to see how it benefits PP or even C’s. Turnout up massively in Catalonia (by over 17%), so is likely to be 80%+ there. That’s what it was for the regional election in 2017 when the vote split 50/50 between nationalists and non-nationalists.0
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I thought that as well. I also thought there was a good King Wences who last looked out on the feast of Stephen.Recidivist said:
As a kid I always imagined it was a green hill on which no wall stood. It seemed a curious detail to devote a whole line to.Ishmael_Z said:
Without used to have the same meaning in English English, as in:viewcode said:
Parenthetically, one of the entirely-unsung achievements of Scotland is the word "outwith". It's incredibly useful and I've used it several times.Scott_P said:
There is a green hill far away,
Without a city wall
Where our dear Lord was crucified;
Who died to save us all.0 -
What's a "nationalist"? A Catalonian nationalist or a Spanish nationalist? "Separatist" removes the ambiguity..SouthamObserver said:Looks like being a 75%+ turnout in Spain for today’s general election. That will be 10 or so points up on the 2016 vote. On the face of it this could be good news for both PSOE and Vox. It’s certainly hard to see how it benefits PP or even C’s. Turnout up massively in Catalonia (by over 17%), so is likely to be 80%+ there. That’s what it was for the regional election in 2017 when the vote split 50/50 between nationalists and non-nationalists.
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Brexit is poisoning everything.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/local-elections-lewes-vandalised-posters-brexit-graffiti-traitors-a8890046.html0 -
And I used to think that message on the side of orange-squash bottles declared that the content was a 'delight to taste'.viewcode said:
I thought that as well. I also thought there was a good King Wences who last looked out on the feast of Stephen.Recidivist said:
As a kid I always imagined it was a green hill on which no wall stood. It seemed a curious detail to devote a whole line to.Ishmael_Z said:
Without used to have the same meaning in English English, as in:viewcode said:
Parenthetically, one of the entirely-unsung achievements of Scotland is the word "outwith". It's incredibly useful and I've used it several times.Scott_P said:
There is a green hill far away,
Without a city wall
Where our dear Lord was crucified;
Who died to save us all.0 -
I wrote the word "outwith" in a draft of the OECD annual survey of the UK in 1975. It was edited out by the management as non-standard English.0
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Happy Ed Balls Day to all.0
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ALL kids thought that unless they were unhealthily precocious.Recidivist said:As a kid I always imagined it was a green hill on which no wall stood. It seemed a curious detail to devote a whole line to.
But, yes. the 2 meanings of 'without', ancient and modern. Very interesting new topic. Can one use it in a way that ticks both boxes at the same time? - Yes, I think we can!
What sort of a future do we have without the EU?
I can't cook without a kitchen.
I don't care what they say I won't stay in a world without love.
EDIT: Not totally sure about that last one.0 -
That was my exact point. They felt any Brexit was worth it rather than no Brexit, and accepted, despite much nonsense talk, that however bad a Brexit May's deal was, it was still Brexit, torpedoing the claims it is not Brexit. People still claim the latter, but some of the strongest people against the deal still acknowledge it is Brexit, leaving only self proclaimed hard men and those of similar ilk to pretend it is not Brexit of some kind.AmpfieldAndy said:
Disagree - those who backed it did so because they fell for the rhetoric that the alternative was no Brexit..kle4 said:
Boris, JRM and most of the ERG disagree that May's deal does nothing worthwhile. They eventually backed it because it does do something worthwhile, however small.AmpfieldAndy said:
Change U.K. seems the exact opposite to me - reversionar, high tax, high spend - and for political failures. I happen to agree with you about the Brexit Party which has no appeal to me - sorry ! I don’t see too many macho men in the ERG - just a mixed group who’ve not done the hard work to define what sort of Leave they want but are savvy enough to recognise that neither EU membership, which has been rejected at the ballot box, nor May’s Brino does anything worthwhile.Stark_Dawning said:
ChUK seems fairly pluralistic to me. It may fail politically but hey ho. The Brexit Party is and will remain entirely in Farage's iron grip. Join it and you must be both his conduit and his slave. You would doubtless enjoy such a role; the macho men of the ERG would never be able to stick it.AmpfieldAndy said:
So far the only 3 snowflakes to have defected are all Remainers - Soubry, Wollaston and Allen. Their political careers will be over when the next election takes place. You need to park your vitriol,and look at what’s actually happening.Stark_Dawning said:Problem with all this talk of defections is that, as Carswell and Reckless discovered, you defect only to find yourself in an institution in which Farage is God and King and Law. These ERG types don't seem to have the smallest egos so would never last long in such subservience. Yes, you get to annoy the Tory leader for all of eight minutes but your political career is over and you end up just being forgotten and sad.
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Right wing Tories (mostly) backed EU membership when they were worried about the Soviet Union abroad, and militant trade unions at home. Those ceased to be concerns, after 1990. Then, from the Maastrict Treaty onwards, the EU began to acquire the trappings of Statehood. Finally, Tony Blair saw integration with the EU as means to break "the forces of conservatism."kinabalu said:
I'll go with that - a passive aggressive Identity Project that achieved lift off due to people being pissed off with being neglected by their politicians.Alanbrooke said:or it could just be people pissed off that their elected representatives arent looking after the electorate, which is sort of their day job,
At least as regards the Leave voters in post industrial areas. The Neglected Ones.
But the critical mass of Leave sentiment comes from true blue Tory voters in the shires. Does not ring quite so true there.
Why are the massed ranks of the Blazer Brigade so keen to leave the EU?
I think I know.
So, they switched.0 -
Just outside* Quedgeley, there is a bridge over the A38 which has graffiti from 2017 still in it. It was clearly written by somebody of limited intellectual attainment:Recidivist said:
'Save the NHS. Bun the Tories.'
But the fact this person is almost as thick as Diane Abbott's waistband doesn't make it any the less an extremely nasty sentiment.
And that has nothing to do with Brexit. Politics has been polarising for years, and Brexit is a symptom at least as much as a cause.
*Not without, because nobody would really be sorry to be without Quedgeley.0 -
Lord Ashcroft is very enthusiastic about the Brexit party on Twitter. He did not answer a tweet I sent him asking if he was funding it.Recidivist said:
It's just an ego trip. He's raised some cash and is having a ball doing all the fun stuff and skipping the tedious policy bit. The biggest tell is not fielding any local council candidates. If you want to get a party going that has a future that would be literally the first thing you should do.The_Taxman said:
I know that Farage and some of the other former UKIP supporters at the top of the party have left to form the Brexit party. But what about the people in UKIP who used to knock on doors, leaflet and the like? It could well be the Brexit party is top heavy without anybody on the ground. I simply cannot believe the Brexit party is anything but a minor irritant to the main parties. 2010 showed that even when the LD were polling at levels similar to the two main parties that on election day the LD vote was substantially down compared to opinion polls and they had a net loss of seats! The LD were an established party with lots of members, money and well organised party in each seat. The Brexit party is just a conduit of the Brexit supporting media to get the UK to leave the EU. Nothing more or less than that.DavidL said:There are currently 313 Conservative MPs plus 10 DUP. Given the absence of the 7 Sinn Fein plus the speaker I make that an overall majority of 2. Anyone thinking that getting rid of the likes of Steve Baker should be very careful about what they wish for. 4-5 defections makes any pretense that this government, even on the days that the DUP support them, has a majority as much of a fantasy as most of the rest of our politics.
If it came to a snap election I think the Brexit party might fancy their chances more than those who have disappeared to the CUKs. The difference in their launches and organisation to date has been stark. Any CUKs supporting a VONC really better have a plan B, career wise.
I don't believe he even has the 50,000 or so small donors that are supposed to have stumped up the thick end of a million quid between them. I think he has a rich backer somewhere picking up the tab. That's how it seems to me anyway.0 -
I unsarcastically adore James Burke: he's still alive, btw, and we'll miss him when he goes. He's one of those people like Johnny Ball who, when you look back, think "Jesus we were lucky to have them"isam said:h ttps://twitter.com/carljackmiller/status/1122459930504650752?s=21
The Twitter clip is from "When the Universe Changed", episode 10. The endpiece is here on YouTube. He also has some stuff on iPlayer, such as James Burke's Web of Knowledge. The best one of the iPlayer stuff is James Burke on the End of Scarcity0 -
who are these imaginary Blazer Brigade ? I dont know anyone who wears a blazer, or spends all their time at a golf club. These are simply fictions which display the 1970s roots of the people who think them.kinabalu said:
I'll go with that - a passive aggressive Identity Project that achieved lift off due to people being pissed off with being neglected by their politicians.Alanbrooke said:or it could just be people pissed off that their elected representatives arent looking after the electorate, which is sort of their day job,
At least as regards the Leave voters in post industrial areas. The Neglected Ones.
But the critical mass of Leave sentiment comes from true blue Tory voters in the shires. Does not ring quite so true there.
Why are the massed ranks of the Blazer Brigade so keen to leave the EU?
I think I know.
There is a strange desire just to lump everyone into a caricature villain category - leavers and remainers are just as bad - an no real attempt to ask if the other side has a point.0 -
Did he see it?AlastairMeeks said:
Lord Ashcroft is very enthusiastic about the Brexit party on Twitter. He did not answer a tweet I sent him asking if he was funding it.Recidivist said:
It's just an ego trip. He's raised some cash and is having a ball doing all the fun stuff and skipping the tedious policy bit. The biggest tell is not fielding any local council candidates. If you want to get a party going that has a future that would be literally the first thing you should do.The_Taxman said:
I know that Farage and some of the other former UKIP supporters at the top of the party have left to form the Brexit party. But what about the people in UKIP who used to knock on doors, leaflet and the like? It could well be the Brexit party is top heavy without anybody on the ground. I simply cannot believe the Brexit party is anything but a minor irritant to the main parties. 2010 showed that even when the LD were polling at levels similar to the two main parties that on election day the LD vote was substantially down compared to opinion polls and they had a net loss of seats! The LD were an established party with lots of members, money and well organised party in each seat. The Brexit party is just a conduit of the Brexit supporting media to get the UK to leave the EU. Nothing more or less than that.DavidL said:There are currently 313 Conservative MPs plus 10 DUP. Given the absence of the 7 Sinn Fein plus the speaker I make that an overall majority of 2. Anyone thinking that getting rid of the likes of Steve Baker should be very careful about what they wish for. 4-5 defections makes any pretense that this government, even on the days that the DUP support them, has a majority as much of a fantasy as most of the rest of our politics.
If it came to a snap election I think the Brexit party might fancy their chances more than those who have disappeared to the CUKs. The difference in their launches and organisation to date has been stark. Any CUKs supporting a VONC really better have a plan B, career wise.
I don't believe he even has the 50,000 or so small donors that are supposed to have stumped up the thick end of a million quid between them. I think he has a rich backer somewhere picking up the tab. That's how it seems to me anyway.
0 -
True it’s become like a cancer on the UK.Recidivist said:
And one wonders why support for the EU in the remaining 27 has gone up! Some of the rhetoric aimed at anyone who disagrees with Brexit is disgraceful . And now it appears only a no deal crash out is now classed as the only true Brexit . The lunatics have taken over , this is a very dark time for the UK .0 -
Yes, the Hard Men are saying that No Brexit is better than a Bad Brexit.kle4 said:That was my exact point. They felt any Brexit was worth it rather than no Brexit, and accepted, despite much nonsense talk, that however bad a Brexit May's deal was, it was still Brexit, torpedoing the claims it is not Brexit. People still claim the latter, but some of the strongest people against the deal still acknowledge it is Brexit, leaving only self proclaimed hard men and those of similar ilk to pretend it is not Brexit of some kind.
And a Brexit cannot be a Bad Brexit without being at least a Brexit.
That is a QED in my book.0 -
Again disagree. The fact it’s still Brexit, which I do agree with, doesn’t make it worth having. It’s not. JRM and Boris were always going to support May’s deal once it became clear that they couldn’t ditch her. The ERG has been split on May’s deal for a while and continue to be so. If there was a scintilla of a chance thatshe could get her deal through, she’d try again. There isn’t. There is a binary choice having sturdily ruled out trade talks from the outset, which is no deal or no Brexit.kle4 said:
That was my exact point. They felt any Brexit was worth it rather than no Brexit, and accepted, despite much nonsense talk, that however bad a Brexit May's deal was, it was still Brexit, torpedoing the claims it is not Brexit. People still claim the latter, but some of the strongest people against the deal still acknowledge it is Brexit, leaving only self proclaimed hard men and those of similar ilk to pretend it is not Brexit of some kind.AmpfieldAndy said:
Disagree - those who backed it did so because they fell for the rhetoric that the alternative was no Brexit..kle4 said:AmpfieldAndy said:
Change U.K. seems the exact opposite to me - reversionar, high tax, high spend - and for political failures. I happen to agree with you about the Brexit Party which has no appeal to me - sorry ! I don’t see too many macho men in the ERG - just a mixed group who’ve not done the hard work to define what sort of Leave they want but are savvy enough to recognise that neither EU membership, which has been rejected at the ballot box, nor May’s Brino does anything worthwhile.Stark_Dawning said:
ChUK seems fairly pluralistic to me. It may fail politically but hey ho. The Brexit Party is and will remain entirely in Farage's iron grip. Join it and you must be both his conduit and his slave. You would doubtless enjoy such a role; the macho men of the ERG would never be able to stick it.AmpfieldAndy said:
So far the only 3 snowflakes to have defected are all Remainers - Soubry, Wollaston and Allen. Their political careers will be over when the next election takes place. You need to park your vitriol,and look at what’s actually happening.Stark_Dawning said:Problem with all this talk of defections is that, as Carswell and Reckless discovered, you defect only to find yourself in an institution in which Farage is God and King and Law. These ERG types don't seem to have the smallest egos so would never last long in such subservience. Yes, you get to annoy the Tory leader for all of eight minutes but your political career is over and you end up just being forgotten and sad.
0 -
Agreedviewcode said:I unsarcastically adore James Burke: he's still alive, btw, and we'll miss him when he goes. He's one of those people like Johnny Ball who, when you look back, think "Jesus we were lucky to have them"
The Twitter clip is from "When the Universe Changed", episode 10. The endpiece is here on YouTube. He also has some stuff on iPlayer, such as James Burke's Web of Knowledge. The best one of the iPlayer stuff is James Burke on the End of Scarcity
I have a copy somewhere of one of his books, which I think is Connections. It contains 'links' between the pages. It's basically paper hypertext.0 -
It’s not that simple. Podemos in Catalonia is non-commital on separatism, so is non-nationalist but not pro-unionist. That makes it easier to see things as nationalist/non-nationalist.geoffw said:
What's a "nationalist"? A Catalonian nationalist or a Spanish nationalist? "Separatist" removes the ambiguity..SouthamObserver said:Looks like being a 75%+ turnout in Spain for today’s general election. That will be 10 or so points up on the 2016 vote. On the face of it this could be good news for both PSOE and Vox. It’s certainly hard to see how it benefits PP or even C’s. Turnout up massively in Catalonia (by over 17%), so is likely to be 80%+ there. That’s what it was for the regional election in 2017 when the vote split 50/50 between nationalists and non-nationalists.
0 -
In a RSS conference (probably Edinburgh, so that makes it 2009) an elderly gentleman stood up during a Q&A session and gave a brief speech about the evils of our Brussels masters.[1] He did use the word "diktat" and yes, he wore a blazer.Alanbrooke said:
who are these imaginary Blazer Brigade ? I dont know anyone who wears a blazer, or spends all their time at a golf club. These are simply fictions which display the 1970s roots of the people who think them.kinabalu said:
I'll go with that - a passive aggressive Identity Project that achieved lift off due to people being pissed off with being neglected by their politicians.Alanbrooke said:or it could just be people pissed off that their elected representatives arent looking after the electorate, which is sort of their day job,
At least as regards the Leave voters in post industrial areas. The Neglected Ones.
But the critical mass of Leave sentiment comes from true blue Tory voters in the shires. Does not ring quite so true there.
Why are the massed ranks of the Blazer Brigade so keen to leave the EU?
I think I know.
There is a strange desire just to lump everyone into a caricature villain category - leavers and remainers are just as bad - an no real attempt to ask if the other side has a point.
[1] The problem with Q&As is that people tend not to ask questions but give short speeches...
0 -
Provincial turnout at 6.00 pm in Spain compared to 2016.
https://twitter.com/el_pais/status/1122544726463393793?s=210 -
"Bun the tories" is whose currant policy, please?ydoethur said:
Just outside* Quedgeley, there is a bridge over the A38 which has graffiti from 2017 still in it. It was clearly written by somebody of limited intellectual attainment:Recidivist said:
'Save the NHS. Bun the Tories.'
But the fact this person is almost as thick as Diane Abbott's waistband doesn't make it any the less an extremely nasty sentiment.
And that has nothing to do with Brexit. Politics has been polarising for years, and Brexit is a symptom at least as much as a cause.
*Not without, because nobody would really be sorry to be without Quedgeley.0 -
No need for ydoethur to get so hot and cross about it.Ishmael_Z said:
"Bun the tories" is whose currant policy, please?ydoethur said:
Just outside* Quedgeley, there is a bridge over the A38 which has graffiti from 2017 still in it. It was clearly written by somebody of limited intellectual attainment:Recidivist said:
'Save the NHS. Bun the Tories.'
But the fact this person is almost as thick as Diane Abbott's waistband doesn't make it any the less an extremely nasty sentiment.
And that has nothing to do with Brexit. Politics has been polarising for years, and Brexit is a symptom at least as much as a cause.
*Not without, because nobody would really be sorry to be without Quedgeley.0 -
You think that. But you had been talking about the ERG being a group who recognised that there was nothing worthwhile in the deal. That part is demonstrably untrue, since the majority of the ERG accepted it in the end, reluctantly. Whether you and the the ERG holdouts are correct that it is not worth having was not my point, the point was that collectively the ERG majority decided it was worth it.AmpfieldAndy said:
Again disagree. The fact it’s still Brexit, which I do agree with, doesn’t make it worth having. It’s not.kle4 said:
That was my exact point. They felt any Brexit was worth it rather than no Brexit, and accepted, despite much nonsense talk, that however bad a Brexit May's deal was, it was still Brexit, torpedoing the claims it is not Brexit. People still claim the latter, but some of the strongest people against the deal still acknowledge it is Brexit, leaving only self proclaimed hard men and those of similar ilk to pretend it is not Brexit of some kind.AmpfieldAndy said:
Disagree - those who backed it did so because they fell for the rhetoric that the alternative was no Brexit..kle4 said:AmpfieldAndy said:
Change U.K. seems the exact opposite to me - reversionar, high tax, high spend - and for political failures. I happen to agree with you about the Brexit Party which has no appeal to me - sorry ! I don’t see too many macho men in the ERG - just a mixed group who’ve not done the hard work to define what sort of Leave they want but are savvy enough to recognise that neither EU membership, which has been rejected at the ballot box, nor May’s Brino does anything worthwhile.Stark_Dawning said:
ChUK seems fairly pluralistic to me. It may fail politically but hey ho. The Brexit Party is and will remain entirely in Farage's iron grip. Join it and you must be both his conduit and his slave. You would doubtless enjoy such a role; the macho men of the ERG would never be able to stick it.AmpfieldAndy said:
So far the only 3 snowflakes to have defected are all Remainers - Soubry, Wollaston and Allen. Their political careers will be over when the next election takes place. You need to park your vitriol,and look at what’s actually happening.Stark_Dawning said:Problem with all this talk of defections is that, as Carswell and Reckless discovered, you defect only to find yourself in an institution in which Farage is God and King and Law. These ERG types don't seem to have the smallest egos so would never last long in such subservience. Yes, you get to annoy the Tory leader for all of eight minutes but your political career is over and you end up just being forgotten and sad.
0 -
At the moment a Corbyn government propped up by the SNP with the Tories in opposition led by Boris on a hard Brexit platform would be better electorally for them than staying in the EU and in Government under May and losing lots of voters to the Brexit Party. If May gets her Deal through and leaves that could change but that is a big ifdixiedean said:If the Brexit Party is an existential threat to the Tory Party, maybe the best way to deal with it could be a GE? It would allow them to take on Farage before an organisational structure could be created.
Of course they'd lose, but it could solidify the Tories as the opposition.
What do they fear most? Corbyn in power, probably as a minority PM? Or three more years of being attacked and weakened on both flanks?0 -
He and Farage and Banks are personal friends (see "Bad Boys of Brexit"). I'd be surprised if he wasn't funding him.AlastairMeeks said:
Lord Ashcroft is very enthusiastic about the Brexit party on Twitter. He did not answer a tweet I sent him asking if he was funding it.Recidivist said:
It's just an ego trip. He's raised some cash and is having a ball doing all the fun stuff and skipping the tedious policy bit. The biggest tell is not fielding any local council candidates. If you want to get a party going that has a future that would be literally the first thing you should do.The_Taxman said:
I know that Farage and some of the other former UKIP supporters at the top of the party have left to form the Brexit party. But what about the people in UKIP who used to knock on doors, leaflet and the like? It could well be the Brexit party is top heavy without anybody on the ground. I simply cannot believe the Brexit party is anything but a minor irritant to the main parties. 2010 showed that even when the LD were polling at levels similar to the two main parties that on election day the LD vote was substantially down compared to opinion polls and they had a net loss of seats! The LD were an established party with lots of members, money and well organised party in each seat. The Brexit party is just a conduit of the Brexit supporting media to get the UK to leave the EU. Nothing more or less than that.DavidL said:There are currently 313 Conservative MPs plus 10 DUP. Given the absence of the 7 Sinn Fein plus the speaker I make that an overall majority of 2. Anyone thinking that getting rid of the likes of Steve Baker should be very careful about what they wish for. 4-5 defections makes any pretense that this government, even on the days that the DUP support them, has a majority as much of a fantasy as most of the rest of our politics.
If it came to a snap election I think the Brexit party might fancy their chances more than those who have disappeared to the CUKs. The difference in their launches and organisation to date has been stark. Any CUKs supporting a VONC really better have a plan B, career wise.
I don't believe he even has the 50,000 or so small donors that are supposed to have stumped up the thick end of a million quid between them. I think he has a rich backer somewhere picking up the tab. That's how it seems to me anyway.0 -
"And our eyes at last shall see Him,viewcode said:
I thought that as well. I also thought there was a good King Wences who last looked out on the feast of Stephen.Recidivist said:
As a kid I always imagined it was a green hill on which no wall stood. It seemed a curious detail to devote a whole line to.Ishmael_Z said:
Without used to have the same meaning in English English, as in:viewcode said:
Parenthetically, one of the entirely-unsung achievements of Scotland is the word "outwith". It's incredibly useful and I've used it several times.Scott_P said:
There is a green hill far away,
Without a city wall
Where our dear Lord was crucified;
Who died to save us all.
Through His own redeeming love;
For that child so dear and gentle,
Is our Lord in heaven above,
And He leads His children on,
To the place where He is gone."
I thought the last 2 lines described a cruel sort of conjuring trick by a kind of Pied Piper figure leading a bunch of kids to a spot where he magically vanishes.0 -
You want jam on it, don't you?Ishmael_Z said:
"Bun the tories" is whose currant policy, please?ydoethur said:
Just outside* Quedgeley, there is a bridge over the A38 which has graffiti from 2017 still in it. It was clearly written by somebody of limited intellectual attainment:Recidivist said:
'Save the NHS. Bun the Tories.'
But the fact this person is almost as thick as Diane Abbott's waistband doesn't make it any the less an extremely nasty sentiment.
And that has nothing to do with Brexit. Politics has been polarising for years, and Brexit is a symptom at least as much as a cause.
*Not without, because nobody would really be sorry to be without Quedgeley.0 -
Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too0
-
He was always very much a result driven person when funding the Tories, local parties would only get cash if they had a business plan for instance. I doubt he is funding the Brexit party as it has no stated aim other than Brexit at the moment. He would probably see it as a waste of his money. That does not stop him talking it up. In his mind if it puts pressure on the Tories to comply and deliver Brexit then job done. However, he knows how elections work and the infrastructure required to compete at the top level. I think it is just bluster and it is not as if Brexit affects him anyway in Belize!AlastairMeeks said:
Lord Ashcroft is very enthusiastic about the Brexit party on Twitter. He did not answer a tweet I sent him asking if he was funding it.Recidivist said:
It's just an ego trip. He's raised some cash and is having a ball doing all the fun stuff and skipping the tedious policy bit. The biggest tell is not fielding any local council candidates. If you want to get a party going that has a future that would be literally the first thing you should do.The_Taxman said:
I know that Farage and some of the other former UKIP supporters at the top of the party have left to form the Brexit party. But what about the people in UKIP who used to knock on doors, leaflet and the like? It could well be the Brexit party is top heavy without anybody on the ground. I simply cannot believe the Brexit party is anything but a minor irritant to the main parties. 2010 showed that even when the LD were polling at levels similar to the two main parties that on election day the LD vote was substantially down compared to opinion polls and they had a net loss of seats! The LD were an established party with lots of members, money and well organised party in each seat. The Brexit party is just a conduit of the Brexit supporting media to get the UK to leave the EU. Nothing more or less than that.DavidL said:There are currently 313 Conservative MPs plus 10 DUP. Given the absence of the 7 Sinn Fein plus the speaker I make that an overall majority of 2. Anyone thinking that getting rid of the likes of Steve Baker should be very careful about what they wish for. 4-5 defections makes any pretense that this government, even on the days that the DUP support them, has a majority as much of a fantasy as most of the rest of our politics.
If it came to a snap election I think the Brexit party might fancy their chances more than those who have disappeared to the CUKs. The difference in their launches and organisation to date.
I don't believe he even has the 50,000 or so small donors that are supposed to have stumped up the thick end of a million quid between them. I think he has a rich backer somewhere picking up the tab. That's how it seems to me anyway.0 -
Yeah, the likes of James Burke and Johnny Ball were a superb watch. I'm not up to speed with modern kids telly, so don't know if today's young 'uns have got such a resource. Brian Cox maybe?viewcode said:
I unsarcastically adore James Burke: he's still alive, btw, and we'll miss him when he goes. He's one of those people like Johnny Ball who, when you look back, think "Jesus we were lucky to have them"isam said:h ttps://twitter.com/carljackmiller/status/1122459930504650752?s=21
The Twitter clip is from "When the Universe Changed", episode 10. The endpiece is here on YouTube. He also has some stuff on iPlayer, such as James Burke's Web of Knowledge. The best one of the iPlayer stuff is James Burke on the End of Scarcity0 -
This headline is not well worded:
Nicola Sturgeon declares 'climate emergency' at SNP conference
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48077802
Makes it sound like there was too much hot air or something....0 -
I'm just raisin it to counter the idea that Brexit is responsible for everything. Labour electing an apologist for terrorism and racism as leader hasn't exactly helped either.rkrkrk said:
No need for ydoethur to get so hot and cross about it.Ishmael_Z said:
"Bun the tories" is whose currant policy, please?ydoethur said:
Just outside* Quedgeley, there is a bridge over the A38 which has graffiti from 2017 still in it. It was clearly written by somebody of limited intellectual attainment:Recidivist said:
'Save the NHS. Bun the Tories.'
But the fact this person is almost as thick as Diane Abbott's waistband doesn't make it any the less an extremely nasty sentiment.
And that has nothing to do with Brexit. Politics has been polarising for years, and Brexit is a symptom at least as much as a cause.
*Not without, because nobody would really be sorry to be without Quedgeley.0 -
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
0 -
Not sure about other areas but where I am the Labour vote seems to be holding up OK in better off areas where people seem to understand that local elections have nothing to do with Brexit. The disaffected "betrayal" anti politics segment, well, I'm not convinced they voted in local elections anywayAlanbrooke said:
This could be a core vote special. fringe parties arent fielding candidates in any great numbers and all the parties are pissing off the electorateSean_F said:
I expect the party would be delighted to keep losses to 400 seats. They are defending 4,300.GIN1138 said:Tories facing local elections "wipeout"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/28/tories-braced-local-election-wipeout-deputy-chairman-warns-mounting/
And that's just the starter before the main course of the EU elections.
I'd expect a net loss of about 750. The Conservatives are polling as badly as in 1993-96, but the Labour and Lib Dems' ratings are among their worst ever.0 -
The Winds of Nothing Has Changed?ydoethur said:This headline is not well worded:
Nicola Sturgeon declares 'climate emergency' at SNP conference
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48077802
Makes it sound like there was too much hot air or something....0 -
Only need to bun the fruitcakes...Ishmael_Z said:
"Bun the tories" is whose currant policy, please?ydoethur said:
Just outside* Quedgeley, there is a bridge over the A38 which has graffiti from 2017 still in it. It was clearly written by somebody of limited intellectual attainment:Recidivist said:
'Save the NHS. Bun the Tories.'
But the fact this person is almost as thick as Diane Abbott's waistband doesn't make it any the less an extremely nasty sentiment.
And that has nothing to do with Brexit. Politics has been polarising for years, and Brexit is a symptom at least as much as a cause.
*Not without, because nobody would really be sorry to be without Quedgeley.0 -
We're back to the pre-1990 period, in terms of polarisation, even if the dividing lines are now in different places.ydoethur said:
Just outside* Quedgeley, there is a bridge over the A38 which has graffiti from 2017 still in it. It was clearly written by somebody of limited intellectual attainment:Recidivist said:
'Save the NHS. Bun the Tories.'
But the fact this person is almost as thick as Diane Abbott's waistband doesn't make it any the less an extremely nasty sentiment.
And that has nothing to do with Brexit. Politics has been polarising for years, and Brexit is a symptom at least as much as a cause.
*Not without, because nobody would really be sorry to be without Quedgeley.0 -
If Francois, Baker etc defect then it becomes less likely that a Brexiteer takes the helm of the Tory party, so why would they do that? I hope they do defect as it makes staying in the EU more likely not less but I cannot see anyone going this side of a leadership election as it would make no sense strategically.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
0 -
I think I have always been quite clear that, in my view, there is no unified ERG position - never has been. That’s why, idleness apart, they’ve never sought to establish what form Brexit should actually take. I doubt they’d be united on no deal either. No Brexit is just about the only position they would be united on - in opposing.kle4 said:
You think that. But you had been talking about the ERG being a group who recognised that there was nothing worthwhile in the deal. That part is demonstrably untrue, since the majority of the ERG accepted it in the end, reluctantly. Whether you and the the ERG holdouts are correct that it is not worth having was not my point, the point was that collectively the ERG majority decided it was worth it.AmpfieldAndy said:
Again disagree. The fact it’s still Brexit, which I do agree with, doesn’t make it worth having. It’s not.kle4 said:
That was my exact point. They felt any Brexit was worth it rather than no Brexit, and accepted, despite much nonsense talk, that however bad a Brexit May's deal was, it was still Brexit, torpedoing the claims it is not Brexit. People still claim the latter, but some of the strongest people against the deal still acknowledge it is Brexit, leaving only self proclaimed hard men and those of similar ilk to pretend it is not Brexit of some kind.AmpfieldAndy said:
Disagree - those who backed it did so because they fell for the rhetoric that the alternative was no Brexit..kle4 said:AmpfieldAndy said:Stark_Dawning said:
ChUK seems fairly pluralistic to me. It may fail politically but hey ho. The Brexit Party is and will remain entirely in Farage's iron grip. Join it and you must be both his conduit and his slave. You would doubtless enjoy such a role; the macho men of the ERG would never be able to stick it.AmpfieldAndy said:
So far the only 3 snowflakes to have defected are all Remainers - Soubry, Wollaston and Allen. Their political careers will be over when the next election takes place. You need to park your vitriol,and look at what’s actually happening.Stark_Dawning said:Problem with all this talk of defections is that, as Carswell and Reckless discovered, you defect only to find yourself in an institution in which Farage is God and King and Law. These ERG types don't seem to have the smallest egos so would never last long in such subservience. Yes, you get to annoy the Tory leader for all of eight minutes but your political career is over and you end up just being forgotten and sad.
0 -
I May have to concede that one.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Winds of Nothing Has Changed?ydoethur said:This headline is not well worded:
Nicola Sturgeon declares 'climate emergency' at SNP conference
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48077802
Makes it sound like there was too much hot air or something....
In terms of punning, we've never had it so good.0 -
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
0 -
I'm in two minds about Brian Cox (the presenter, not the actor). He gave one of the best explanations of entropy I've heard using only a sandcastle, but he's fallen prey to the "let me describe my wonder" syndrome, which Philomena Cunk so ably parodies. The Royal Society Christmas Lectures has also gone downhill, but it can still post some gems.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Yeah, the likes of James Burke and Johnny Ball were a superb watch. I'm not up to speed with modern kids telly, so don't know if today's young 'uns have got such a resource. Brian Cox maybe?viewcode said:
I unsarcastically adore James Burke: he's still alive, btw, and we'll miss him when he goes. He's one of those people like Johnny Ball who, when you look back, think "Jesus we were lucky to have them"isam said:h ttps://twitter.com/carljackmiller/status/1122459930504650752?s=21
The Twitter clip is from "When the Universe Changed", episode 10. The endpiece is here on YouTube. He also has some stuff on iPlayer, such as James Burke's Web of Knowledge. The best one of the iPlayer stuff is James Burke on the End of Scarcity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=658xlubwnDc0 -
It doesn't as a Brexiteer would still be likely to get to the final 2 and win the membership, Francois and Baker are amongst the 20 to 30 odd No Deal diehards who refused to even vote for May's Deal even on her third attemptThe_Taxman said:
If Francois, Baker etc defect then it becomes less likely that a Brexiteer takes the helm of the Tory party, so why would they do that? I hope they do defect as it makes staying in the EU more likely not less but I cannot see anyone going this side of a leadership election as it would make no sense strategically.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
0 -
Won’t happen. If the WA hasn’t passed by October, the EU will force us out with no deal. May stopped the no deal preparations to try and frighten those opposed to no deal into supporting her deal. That won’t happen either.HYUFD said:
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
0 -
Anything wrong with "outside"?Theuniondivvie said:0 -
Everyone is of course an individual. But there are so many of them one has to generalize sometimes. Perhaps Blazer Brigade was unhelpful. I'll drop it.Alanbrooke said:who are these imaginary Blazer Brigade ? I dont know anyone who wears a blazer, or spends all their time at a golf club. These are simply fictions which display the 1970s roots of the people who think them.
There is a strange desire just to lump everyone into a caricature villain category - leavers and remainers are just as bad - an no real attempt to ask if the other side has a point.
Thing is, I said you DID have a point. A good point. People in depressed areas voting Leave due to being sorely neglected by politicians.
But my point back, as it were, was to wonder how true that rings for all of those relatively affluent Leave voters who do not live in depressed areas?
Because it often strikes me that Brexit gets caricatured as being this big cry of protest from an alienated working class ooop north, when in fact Leave voters were in a majority in most parts of the country and are highly concentrated in the true blue Tory shires.0 -
The "support my deal or the economy gets it" strategy.AmpfieldAndy said:
Won’t happen. If the WA hasn’t passed by October, the EU will force us out with no deal. May stopped the no deal preparations to try and frighten those opposed to no deal into supporting her deal. That won’t happen either.HYUFD said:
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
0 -
Your entirely unnecessary and gratuitous insult of Diane Abbot, who receives half of all hate mail directed at female MPs, rather illustrates the point you are making (about polarisation, not about Quedgeley, which I have never heard of, but am willing to believe that it is a shithole since it is not in London or Scotland).ydoethur said:
Just outside* Quedgeley, there is a bridge over the A38 which has graffiti from 2017 still in it. It was clearly written by somebody of limited intellectual attainment:Recidivist said:
'Save the NHS. Bun the Tories.'
But the fact this person is almost as thick as Diane Abbott's waistband doesn't make it any the less an extremely nasty sentiment.
And that has nothing to do with Brexit. Politics has been polarising for years, and Brexit is a symptom at least as much as a cause.
*Not without, because nobody would really be sorry to be without Quedgeley.0 -
You say that but I remember when dead cert Michael Portillo was going to make the run off in 2001. The Tories have a track record of not voting how opinion polls or best guesses predict.HYUFD said:
It doesn't as a Brexiteer would still be likely to get to the final 2 and win the membership, Francois and Baker are amongst the 20 to 30 odd No Deal diehards who refused to even vote for May's Deal even on her third attemptThe_Taxman said:
If Francois, Baker etc defect then it becomes less likely that a Brexiteer takes the helm of the Tory party, so why would they do that? I hope they do defect as it makes staying in the EU more likely not less but I cannot see anyone going this side of a leadership election as it would make no sense strategically.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
Anyway, if someone's career and life is on the line what difference does it make whether they stay tory and have some influence on the party and therefore policy in contrast to being a marginal figure on the outside? Both Carswell and Reckless have shown how walking out on the Tories for a single issue party ends badly. I think you read this very badly.0 -
More “support my deal or I’ll stay until you do” strategy.geoffw said:
The "support my deal or the economy gets it" strategy.AmpfieldAndy said:
Won’t happen. If the WA hasn’t passed by October, the EU will force us out with no deal. May stopped the no deal preparations to try and frighten those opposed to no deal into supporting her deal. That won’t happen either.HYUFD said:
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
0 -
There are places in London that are not shitholes? Where?OnlyLivingBoy said:(about polarisation, not about Quedgeley, which I have never heard of, but am willing to believe that it is a shithole since it is not in London or Scotland).
(By the way, might it have occurred to you that I was being ironic?)0 -
TBF, with rational people it would be a smart strategy. She's dealing with the ERG, DUP and Labour though.AmpfieldAndy said:
More “support my deal or I’ll stay until you do” strategy.geoffw said:
The "support my deal or the economy gets it" strategy.AmpfieldAndy said:
Won’t happen. If the WA hasn’t passed by October, the EU will force us out with no deal. May stopped the no deal preparations to try and frighten those opposed to no deal into supporting her deal. That won’t happen either.HYUFD said:
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
0 -
You're making it sound highly rational. Can't be right.Sean_F said:Right wing Tories (mostly) backed EU membership when they were worried about the Soviet Union abroad, and militant trade unions at home. Those ceased to be concerns, after 1990. Then, from the Maastrict Treaty onwards, the EU began to acquire the trappings of Statehood. Finally, Tony Blair saw integration with the EU as means to break "the forces of conservatism."
So, they switched.0 -
There aren't places in Scotland that are shitholes? Impressive.ydoethur said:
There are places in London that are not shitholes? Where?OnlyLivingBoy said:(about polarisation, not about Quedgeley, which I have never heard of, but am willing to believe that it is a shithole since it is not in London or Scotland).
(By the way, might it have occurred to you that I was being ironic?)0 -
Since the Tories were increasingly and overtly Eurosceptic before Blair, it is wrong.kinabalu said:
You're making it sound highly rational. Can't be right.Sean_F said:Right wing Tories (mostly) backed EU membership when they were worried about the Soviet Union abroad, and militant trade unions at home. Those ceased to be concerns, after 1990. Then, from the Maastrict Treaty onwards, the EU began to acquire the trappings of Statehood. Finally, Tony Blair saw integration with the EU as means to break "the forces of conservatism."
So, they switched.
In fact, the increasingly Eurosceptic tone on the right goes back to Delors in the 1980s.0 -
I used to sing:Ishmael_Z said:
Without used to have the same meaning in English English, as in:viewcode said:
Parenthetically, one of the entirely-unsung achievements of Scotland is the word "outwith". It's incredibly useful and I've used it several times.Scott_P said:
There is a green hill far away,
Without a city wall
Where our dear Lord was crucified;
Who died to save us all.
'There is a free kick far away
Without a City wall'
0 -
Nothing rational about politicians and Brexit, in my view, including Tory Remainers.If there was May wouldn’t have agreed to defer trade talks at the outset.ydoethur said:
TBF, with rational people it would be a smart strategy. She's dealing with the ERG, DUP and Labour though.AmpfieldAndy said:
More “support my deal or I’ll stay until you do” strategy.geoffw said:
The "support my deal or the economy gets it" strategy.AmpfieldAndy said:
Won’t happen. If the WA hasn’t passed by October, the EU will force us out with no deal. May stopped the no deal preparations to try and frighten those opposed to no deal into supporting her deal. That won’t happen either.HYUFD said:
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
0 -
Farage stirring up more hate in the USA.
He jets over there does a speech and returns with the UK media not saying a word . All the while he pretends he’s outraged at what UKIPs become .
0 -
Blair was first elected to Parliament on a Eurosceptic manifesto.ydoethur said:
Since the Tories were increasingly and overtly Eurosceptic before Blair, it is wrong.kinabalu said:
You're making it sound highly rational. Can't be right.Sean_F said:Right wing Tories (mostly) backed EU membership when they were worried about the Soviet Union abroad, and militant trade unions at home. Those ceased to be concerns, after 1990. Then, from the Maastrict Treaty onwards, the EU began to acquire the trappings of Statehood. Finally, Tony Blair saw integration with the EU as means to break "the forces of conservatism."
So, they switched.
In fact, the increasingly Eurosceptic tone on the right goes back to Delors in the 1980s.0 -
I was about to seriously misunderstand that comment by listing all the wonderful places in Scotland.RobD said:
There aren't places in Scotland that are shitholes? Impressive.ydoethur said:
There are places in London that are not shitholes? Where?OnlyLivingBoy said:(about polarisation, not about Quedgeley, which I have never heard of, but am willing to believe that it is a shithole since it is not in London or Scotland).
(By the way, might it have occurred to you that I was being ironic?)
Then I woke up a bit, when I had run out of space as I extolled the Berwickshire coastline, and realised what you were saying.0 -
Indeed. And it was Delors and Kinnock who persuaded Labour the trick with undoing Thatcher's reforms was more EC integration that led to New Labour considering the euro.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Blair was first elected to Parliament on a Eurosceptic manifesto.ydoethur said:
Since the Tories were increasingly and overtly Eurosceptic before Blair, it is wrong.kinabalu said:
You're making it sound highly rational. Can't be right.Sean_F said:Right wing Tories (mostly) backed EU membership when they were worried about the Soviet Union abroad, and militant trade unions at home. Those ceased to be concerns, after 1990. Then, from the Maastrict Treaty onwards, the EU began to acquire the trappings of Statehood. Finally, Tony Blair saw integration with the EU as means to break "the forces of conservatism."
So, they switched.
In fact, the increasingly Eurosceptic tone on the right goes back to Delors in the 1980s.0 -
The EU won't, Tusk has been quite clear in effect the EU will happily extend for ever.AmpfieldAndy said:
Won’t happen. If the WA hasn’t passed by October, the EU will force us out with no deal. May stopped the no deal preparations to try and frighten those opposed to no deal into supporting her deal. That won’t happen either.HYUFD said:
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
We only leave with No Deal if May asks for another extension if Macron vetoes0 -
Beautiful place, but I think it has its fair share of dumps, like any place.ydoethur said:
I was about to seriously misunderstand that comment by listing all the wonderful places in Scotland.RobD said:
There aren't places in Scotland that are shitholes? Impressive.ydoethur said:
There are places in London that are not shitholes? Where?OnlyLivingBoy said:(about polarisation, not about Quedgeley, which I have never heard of, but am willing to believe that it is a shithole since it is not in London or Scotland).
(By the way, might it have occurred to you that I was being ironic?)
Then I woke up a bit, when I had run out of space as I extolled the Berwickshire coastline, and realised what you were saying.0 -
2001 was an entirely different kettle of fish, Portillo got squeezed in the middle between Clarke and IDS and IDS easily won the membership.The_Taxman said:
You say that but I remember when dead cert Michael Portillo was going to make the run off in 2001. The Tories have a track record of not voting how opinion polls or best guesses predict.HYUFD said:
It doesn't as a Brexiteer would still be likely to get to the final 2 and win the membership, Francois and Baker are amongst the 20 to 30 odd No Deal diehards who refused to even vote for May's Deal even on her third attemptThe_Taxman said:
If Francois, Baker etc defect then it becomes less likely that a Brexiteer takes the helm of the Tory party, so why would they do that? I hope they do defect as it makes staying in the EU more likely not less but I cannot see anyone going this side of a leadership election as it would make no sense strategically.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
Anyway, if someone's career and life is on the line what difference does it make whether they stay tory and have some influence on the party and therefore policy in contrast to being a marginal figure on the outside? Both Carswell and Reckless have shown how walking out on the Tories for a single issue party ends badly. I think you read this very badly.
If we are still in the EU this time next year Leave voting Tories will be leaking to the Brexit Party like water through a sieve0 -
It's a bit more than a trickle right now.HYUFD said:
2001 was an entirely different kettle of fish, Portillo got squeezed in the middle between Clarke and IDS and IDS easily won the membership.The_Taxman said:
You say that but I remember when dead cert Michael Portillo was going to make the run off in 2001. The Tories have a track record of not voting how opinion polls or best guesses predict.HYUFD said:
It doesn't as a Brexiteer would still be likely to get to the final 2 and win the membership, Francois and Baker are amongst the 20 to 30 odd No Deal diehards who refused to even vote for May's Deal even on her third attemptThe_Taxman said:
If Francois, Baker etc defect then it becomes less likely that a Brexiteer takes the helm of the Tory party, so why would they do that? I hope they do defect as it makes staying in the EU more likely not less but I cannot see anyone going this side of a leadership election as it would make no sense strategically.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
Anyway, if someone's career and life is on the line what difference does it make whether they stay tory and have some influence on the party and therefore policy in contrast to being a marginal figure on the outside? Both Carswell and Reckless have shown how walking out on the Tories for a single issue party ends badly. I think you read this very badly.
If we are still in the EU this time next year Leave voting Tories will be leaking to the Brexit Party like water through a sieve
0 -
Might not be only Macron come October but thats the issue. Tusk can’t speak for the EU on a further extension. It requires the unanimous consent of all r27 members. Can’t see countries like Spain, Holland, Belgium being supporters of further extension.HYUFD said:
The EU won't, Tusk has been quite clear in effect the EU will happily extend for ever.AmpfieldAndy said:
Won’t happen. If the WA hasn’t passed by October, the EU will force us out with no deal. May stopped the no deal preparations to try and frighten those opposed to no deal into supporting her deal. That won’t happen either.HYUFD said:
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
We only leave with No Deal if May asks for another extension if Macron vetoes0 -
When does Tusk's term of office finish? Is it November?AmpfieldAndy said:
Might not be only Macron come October but thats the issue. Tusk can’t speak for the EU on a further extension. It requires the unanimous consent of all r27 members. Can’t see countries like Spain, Holland, Belgium being supporters of further extension.HYUFD said:
The EU won't, Tusk has been quite clear in effect the EU will happily extend for ever.AmpfieldAndy said:
Won’t happen. If the WA hasn’t passed by October, the EU will force us out with no deal. May stopped the no deal preparations to try and frighten those opposed to no deal into supporting her deal. That won’t happen either.HYUFD said:
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
We only leave with No Deal if May asks for another extension if Macron vetoes0 -
‘Avengers: Endgame’ Breaks All Box Office Records With $1.2 Billion Opening
Marvel epic brings in $350 million domestic opening weekend, $100 million more than Infinity War‘s previous record
https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-news/avengers-endgame-box-office-records-1-billion-opening-828389/
If Endgame doesn't sweep the Oscars next year then there's no justice in the world.0 -
Yep.ydoethur said:
When does Tusk's term of office finish? Is it November?AmpfieldAndy said:
Might not be only Macron come October but thats the issue. Tusk can’t speak for the EU on a further extension. It requires the unanimous consent of all r27 members. Can’t see countries like Spain, Holland, Belgium being supporters of further extension.HYUFD said:
The EU won't, Tusk has been quite clear in effect the EU will happily extend for ever.AmpfieldAndy said:
Won’t happen. If the WA hasn’t passed by October, the EU will force us out with no deal. May stopped the no deal preparations to try and frighten those opposed to no deal into supporting her deal. That won’t happen either.HYUFD said:
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
We only leave with No Deal if May asks for another extension if Macron vetoes0 -
I haven't seen it. Is it as good as The Last Jedi?TheScreamingEagles said:‘Avengers: Endgame’ Breaks All Box Office Records With $1.2 Billion Opening
Marvel epic brings in $350 million domestic opening weekend, $100 million more than Infinity War‘s previous record
https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-news/avengers-endgame-box-office-records-1-billion-opening-828389/
If Endgame doesn't sweep the Oscars next year then there's no justice in the world.0 -
Spain
Voting closes 7pm BST mainland, 8pm Canaries
Turnout up 10% at 1800 v 2016, +11 Madrid, almost +20 in Catalonia
Links:
http://www.rtve.es/directo/canal-24h/
https://www.resultados.eleccionesgenerales19.es/Inicio/es
https://resultados.elpais.com/elecciones/generales.html
https://www.elmundo.es/elecciones/elecciones-generales/resultados
https://europeelects.eu/2019/04/26/live-blog-2019-spanish-elections/
Not sure there will be exit polls, vote count results likely delayed until Canaries close.
Thanks and hope you're all well!
DC
0 -
ydoethur said:
There are places in London that are not shitholes? Where?OnlyLivingBoy said:(about polarisation, not about Quedgeley, which I have never heard of, but am willing to believe that it is a shithole since it is not in London or Scotland).
(By the way, might it have occurred to you that I was being ironic?)
Just for education for London centrics. Quedgeley is a new suburb of the great Western City of Gloucester. Not saying it has any great attarctions but certainly not a shitholeydoethur said:
There are places in London that are not shitholes? Where?OnlyLivingBoy said:(about polarisation, not about Quedgeley, which I have never heard of, but am willing to believe that it is a shithole since it is not in London or Scotland).
(By the way, might it have occurred to you that I was being ironic?)0 -
10 minutes until exit polls in Spain, where VOX are chasing the sort of less politically engaged, solically conservative vote that UKIP targets in the
(I mention this as the rest of the race could be quite boring)0 -
All the above, certainly Holland, supported further extension. Macron was the main one holding out against extension to next year until he eventually agreed a compromiseAmpfieldAndy said:
Might not be only Macron come October but thats the issue. Tusk can’t speak for the EU on a further extension. It requires the unanimous consent of all r27 members. Can’t see countries like Spain, Holland, Belgium being supporters of further extension.HYUFD said:
The EU won't, Tusk has been quite clear in effect the EU will happily extend for ever.AmpfieldAndy said:
Won’t happen. If the WA hasn’t passed by October, the EU will force us out with no deal. May stopped the no deal preparations to try and frighten those opposed to no deal into supporting her deal. That won’t happen either.HYUFD said:
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
We only leave with No Deal if May asks for another extension if Macron vetoes0 -
At least some Spanish commentators seem to think there might be exit polls (or same day polls) out soonDoubleCarpet said:Spain
Voting closes 7pm BST mainland, 8pm Canaries
Turnout up 10% at 1800 v 2016, +11 Madrid, almost +20 in Catalonia
Links:
http://www.rtve.es/directo/canal-24h/
https://www.resultados.eleccionesgenerales19.es/Inicio/es
https://resultados.elpais.com/elecciones/generales.html
https://www.elmundo.es/elecciones/elecciones-generales/resultados
https://europeelects.eu/2019/04/26/live-blog-2019-spanish-elections/
Not sure there will be exit polls, vote count results likely delayed until Canaries close.
Thanks and hope you're all well!
DC0 -
A billion cubed times better than The Last Jedi.ydoethur said:
I haven't seen it. Is it as good as The Last Jedi?TheScreamingEagles said:‘Avengers: Endgame’ Breaks All Box Office Records With $1.2 Billion Opening
Marvel epic brings in $350 million domestic opening weekend, $100 million more than Infinity War‘s previous record
https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-news/avengers-endgame-box-office-records-1-billion-opening-828389/
If Endgame doesn't sweep the Oscars next year then there's no justice in the world.0 -
Last time, sure, not necessarily next time. Spain will want Gibraltar raised, Belgium wants more EU integration, Holland has lost its principal ally on EU reform and is very anti-UK at the moment as a result.HYUFD said:
All the above, certainly Holland, supported further extension. Macron was the main one holding out against extension to next year until he eventually agreed a compromiseAmpfieldAndy said:
Might not be only Macron come October but thats the issue. Tusk can’t speak for the EU on a further extension. It requires the unanimous consent of all r27 members. Can’t see countries like Spain, Holland, Belgium being supporters of further extension.HYUFD said:
The EU won't, Tusk has been quite clear in effect the EU will happily extend for ever.AmpfieldAndy said:
Won’t happen. If the WA hasn’t passed by October, the EU will force us out with no deal. May stopped the no deal preparations to try and frighten those opposed to no deal into supporting her deal. That won’t happen either.HYUFD said:
They support No Deal, if come October May extends again rather than goes for No Deal that could trigger Tory to Brexit Party defectionsAmpfieldAndy said:
Neither support the WA though. I think both want to hang around and have a say in who succeeds her - whatever Baker might have said about no confidence votes.HYUFD said:Francois, Baker etc would only likely defect to the Brexit Party if we get to October with the WA not passed and May asks for a further extension rather than preparing for No Deal and the EU agrees. If Kate Hoey is deselected not impossible she could defect to the Brexit Party too
We only leave with No Deal if May asks for another extension if Macron vetoes
0 -
To be exact, it is a very old village with a redundant airfield attached swallowed up by a series of developments from the 1960s to the 2010s (which may politely be termed unexceptional) in the south of the Severn Valley city of Gloucester.madmacs said:ydoethur said:
There are places in London that are not shitholes? Where?OnlyLivingBoy said:(about polarisation, not about Quedgeley, which I have never heard of, but am willing to believe that it is a shithole since it is not in London or Scotland).
(By the way, might it have occurred to you that I was being ironic?)
Just for education for London centrics. Quedgeley is a new suburb of the great Western City of Gloucester. Not saying it has any great attarctions but certainly not a shitholeydoethur said:
There are places in London that are not shitholes? Where?OnlyLivingBoy said:(about polarisation, not about Quedgeley, which I have never heard of, but am willing to believe that it is a shithole since it is not in London or Scotland).
(By the way, might it have occurred to you that I was being ironic?)
I would have said the only really attractive part of it was the canal towpath.
Edit - it does of course have the south west Snooker Academy. But that's about it.0
