politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With a CON leadership contest perhaps imminent new Ipsos-MORI

So Gareth Snell talked about Nick Boles and daisy chaining.

Some interesting camera angles from the Commons as Letwin gets questioned pretty much like a minister, very much not from the dispatch box.

Dura_Ace said:

malcolmg said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.

He is not even human

I mean, the worst you can say about Corbo is that he is a lying fucktard who despises Britain but he's still several rungs up the evolutionary ladder from Gove and would be a far better PM.

A Jezza PM-ship would be like jumping out of a perfectly serviceable aircraft without a parachute. Fantastic fun on the way down but not so great on landing.

_Anazina_ said:

We really have plumbed new lows in the self-awareness stakes when Casino Royale is accusing other posters of being pompous and rude.

Funny old world.

And, after a period of being much better, you are starting to revert to your bad old ways.

You got banned after your f-bomb spree a month or two ago, on top of aggressively and personally insulting a number of other posters.

So you’re in a very poor position to comment.

TheScreamingEagles said:

anothernick said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

I noticed this too:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

Thinks she can get the deal through?

Demob happy?

Yeah, she's quitting tonight.

I appreciate your usual jovial tone, TSE, but it is hardly inconceivable that May leaves as head of the Conservative party with immediate effect - currently 24/1.

I think she might resign as PM and hand over as PM to someone else but remain as Tory leader for the next few months whilst a new leader is elected.

How would a new PM be selected in these circumstances?

Theresa May tells Her Majesty to call for Jeremy Hunt or David Lidington.

Or maybe David Gauke.

David Gauke is joint Chief Secretary to the Treasury according to our next Prime Minister's Wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Hammond

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/jc4southsuffolk/status/1110897362787012608

That looks like doubly good news for the Remain end of Parliament.

She's still trying to scare the ERG into backing the deal, isn't she? Which is fine as far as it goes, but the DUP aren't playing ball and even if they were the numbers don't seem to be close to what is needed.

Blame her software programmers. They didn't envisage the need for an alternative strategy.

Pulpstar said:

"The confirmatory REF2 lock is process" - no it is of the UTMOST substance.

What I mean is that it is not a Brexit outcome. It is akin to the SNP one - that any deal must be ratified by Holyrood. Important, yes, but does not belong with the others.

For example, imagine if it 'wins' this whole exercise and gets passed next week and becomes official government policy.

OK, so the UK's agreed Brexit position, the one we go back to the EU with, is now as follows:

"We have not agreed what we want but we HAVE agreed that whatever we might be able to agree at some point in the future will not be implemented unless it wins a referendum."

That takes us backwards.

So the way forward is to FIRST see if we can agree what we want (in the PD) and then tag on the REF if, and only if, it is necessary to do that in order to get it through a ratifying meaningful vote.

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

I noticed this too:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

Thinks she can get the deal through?

Demob happy?

Yeah, she's quitting tonight.

This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.

At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.

She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.

Find me a single post Topping (a single one) I made going back to the Chequers Deal last year when I didn’t support May’s Deal.

Where in that post did I say that you ever didn't support the deal.

It’s perfectly obvious you were referring to me.

Own it.

LOL

Get over yourself. Whatever you did or didn't say, post or think you remain in the dolt Brexiter category.

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/jc4southsuffolk/status/1110897362787012608

That looks like doubly good news for the Remain end of Parliament.

She's still trying to scare the ERG into backing the deal, isn't she? Which is fine as far as it goes, but the DUP aren't playing ball and even if they were the numbers don't seem to be close to what is needed.

No, she's providing cover for Kyle/Wilson to pass.

malcolmg said:

_Anazina_ said:

We really have plumbed new lows in the self-awareness stakes when Casino Royale is accusing other posters of being pompous and rude.

Funny old world.

Is this get Casino day today, he is getting a concerted pasting last couple of threads. Get in among them Casino.

He never recovered from having been the guy responsible for counting Brady's postbag.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sir Oliver Letwin for PM.

Think he would be a decent choice to steer a gnu through the jungle.

Getting real tetchy on here nowadays, amazing when I am among the least grumpy on the site.

Philip_Thompson said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

I noticed this too:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

Thinks she can get the deal through?

Demob happy?

Yeah, she's quitting tonight.

This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.

At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.

She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.

Find me a single post Topping (a single one) I made going back to the Chequers Deal last year when I didn’t support May’s Deal.

Where in that post did I say that you ever didn't support the deal.

It’s perfectly obvious you were referring to me.

Own it.

Indeed. You're the only 6_6 user I can think of. Richard_Tyndall is 7_7 (and like you has consistently backed the deal post Chequers). I'm 6_8 but still oppose the deal and view no deal, long extension and renegotiate and second referendum as other games. Can't think of many other users with that style of name.

Apologies, @******_****** _AND_ @******_********.

Lovely put down of JRM by Letwin

AlastairMeeks said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/jc4southsuffolk/status/1110897362787012608

That looks like doubly good news for the Remain end of Parliament.

She's still trying to scare the ERG into backing the deal, isn't she? Which is fine as far as it goes, but the DUP aren't playing ball and even if they were the numbers don't seem to be close to what is needed.

The MV3 market on Betfair is an odd one. On the face of it current odds are ridiculous and Yes should not be below 5 at a minimum, bearing in mind the apparent immovability of the key players. But as @Pulpstar has pointed out it gets voided if there is no vote before Saturday, and it looks like a vote will only be put forward if it stands a decent chance. Pricing accurately with that in mind is beyond my tiny brain.

I've backed "No" on the basis that the market is being voided by 30-03. I'll send a twitter message to Betfair if it isn't as I think the Gov't might well move in early April to something that will pass.
If they hold the vote this week though they won't have moved, and it will fail.

JRM resorts to the 1500s for his response. Letwin reminds him of some succeeding history.

[DELETED]

Richard_Tyndall said:

stodge said:

Afternoon all

So in spite of having "taken back control", we know nothing that happens today matters. None of the votes mean very much and nothing will change except we will be a day further down the road to No Deal.

We have still, as the only games in town, leaving with an agreed WA on 22/5, leaving without an agreed WA on 12/4 or revocation. When Ken Clarke, who seems to know his onions, talked about revocation the other day, he didn't say anything about stopping Brexit. What he implied was that as the current negotiations have floundered, we should cancel and re-instigate A50 after the EU elections and after a suitable time for reflection.

Now. that could include a GE or it may not - I suppose if it did and a Party won a majority on a particular plan (Norway, Canada Lite, Andorra Heavy or whatever) that would be a mandated position to file for A50 again and re-commence negotiation. At least the EU would be clear where the UK stood and it might well be the second round of negotiations would proceed far more smoothly than the first.

I'd rather Revoke, sort out exactly what we want and then re-apply A50 on a united and coherent position than either run down the clock with no WA or support what (despite the claims of the May apologists) is a flawed WA.

The problem is the Conservatives are terrified their voter base will not take kindly to revocation claiming (via the Mail and Express) it's a betrayal of the sacred 23/6/16 Referendum. Maybe but there comes a point when, whether they like it or not, parties can decide to act in the national interest or their own interest and if acting in the national interest is contrary to their own interest, so be it.

I well remember the siren calls from Conservatives for taxes to be cut in the run up to the 1997 election but Clarke refused and in so doing may have contributed to Blair's landslide but he bequeathed a sound economic position to Brown. Sometimes the best for the country isn't the best for your Party and you have to take the hit in the national interest.

This is, I am afraid, the biggest unicorn of them all. If we revoke there is no way on earth Parliament will ever let us invoke again.

Yes, Revoke is the Eject button, not Pause/Run.

This procedural stuff is going to fill the afternoon. Then (assuming Letwin carries again) MPs will be voting on paper after negligible debate. We can only hope Bercow has applied logic to the selection of the options.

Letwin suggesting Monday will move on to preference voting.

RobD said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

This can be read two ways but I think it means that Labour wouldn't have a referendum... rather having one on no brexit.

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1110898537003397120

I assume the ambiguity was intentional?

No - they’ve specifically said that a wonderful labour Brexit would need no referendum.

CD13 said:

If the MPs are 'taking back control', what is the point of Indyref2?

I can't see it passing Parliament.

It'd make this stuff look like a storm in a teacup if Parliament blocked Sindy after a "Yes" vote, or asked the Scots to "ratify the withdrawal agreement..."

When will Bercow announce which amendments he will deign worth of consideration? Presumably he's already chosen them.

Dura_Ace said:

So what is the SNP's price for supporting the now imminent and inevitable Labour minority government? I reckon Indyref2 and Defence Secretary to nobble Trident which is a price Corbo will happily pay.

Do you mean a GE is inevitable and it is then inevitable that Labour will be largest party in a hung parliament?

Or do you mean it is inevitable that JC will succeed with a VONC in this parliament and will then be called by HM and will enter number 10 without the need to disturb the voters?

Important I know, because the 1st and I am quids in, whereas the 2nd I am quids out.

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

I noticed this too:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

Thinks she can get the deal through?

Demob happy?

Yeah, she's quitting tonight.

This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.

At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.

She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.

Find me a single post Topping (a single one) I made going back to the Chequers Deal last year when I didn’t support May’s Deal.

Where in that post did I say that you ever didn't support the deal.

It’s perfectly obvious you were referring to me.

Own it.

LOL

Get over yourself. Whatever you did or didn't say, post or think you remain in the dolt Brexiter category.

You’re a coward who hasn’t got the bollocks to say it to my face, and are now trying to wriggle out of it as you realise you haven’t got a leg to stand on.

My argument was never with you but you decide to get stuck in and hurl some mud my way, all because I picked on your chum and his posting style, as you recognised a kindred spirit.

Pathetic.

RobD said:

IanB2 said:

Letwin suggesting Monday will move on to preference voting.

AV back on? I assume the current deal will be one of the options.

But no one on the Gvt side was brave enough to put it into the process (although May's WA is implicit in some of the other options). Hence rumours the government is thinking on ejaculating MV3 back into Friday,

dixiedean said:

Can someone explain the practicality (not the Constitutional logic) of the Cabinet abstaining?
Seems more likely to simply give more chance of success to outcomes not wanted.
It is not as if their individual, personal preferences are a matter of much mystery.

It avoids ministers resigning (like the junior ministers have been doing) and voting against the PM and each other.

dixiedean said:

Can someone explain the practicality (not the Constitutional logic) of the Cabinet abstaining?
Seems more likely to simply give more chance of success to outcomes not wanted.
It is not as if their individual, personal preferences are a matter of much mystery.

Who says they don't want these outcomes? They don't want No Deal, they can't pass their deal, and they don't to be blamed for whatever else happens.

This whole farrago is pointing up that our entire system is designed for a government with a working majority and breaks down in circumstances when the voters through our flawed voting system don't oblige.

anothernick said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

anothernick said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

I noticed this too:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

Thinks she can get the deal through?

Demob happy?

Yeah, she's quitting tonight.

I appreciate your usual jovial tone, TSE, but it is hardly inconceivable that May leaves as head of the Conservative party with immediate effect - currently 24/1.

I think she might resign as PM and hand over as PM to someone else but remain as Tory leader for the next few months whilst a new leader is elected.

How would a new PM be selected in these circumstances?

Theresa May tells Her Majesty to call for Jeremy Hunt or David Lidington.

Or maybe David Gauke.

And are we to suppose that Tory MPs would meekly accept May's imposition of her chosen successor on them (even if HM agreed to go along with it, which seems very unlikely)?

I wouldn't rule that out *if* there was a respected candidate acceptable to both wings who had no skin in the long-term leadership game and 'stood' on a 'manifesto' of getting through the current unpleasantness then stepping down for a fully-contested Tory leadership contest.

Trouble is, I can't think of the candidate who would have both wings on-side (Lidington and others too remainy, Gove too ambitious and probably too leavy etc) and be considered to have the weight to do the job.

I think all the key long-term players would happily sit it out for 3-6 months while the deed was done, then rebuild the post-Brexit future. Nothing to be gained by picking up the arse end of this one.

malcolmg said:

_Anazina_ said:

We really have plumbed new lows in the self-awareness stakes when Casino Royale is accusing other posters of being pompous and rude.

Funny old world.

Is this get Casino day today, he is getting a concerted pasting last couple of threads. Get in among them Casino.

Thanks Malc.

There’s a cluster of morons who like to fornicate awkwardly together in the basement of this site now, and it’s about time they were called out on it.

I think they’re upset I was right about the PV numbers on the march at the weekend, and can’t bear to admit it.

I’d take ten of you any day of the week over one of them.

Leadsom saying the government will try again to vote the Letwin process down.

TheScreamingEagles said:

kjohnw said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

IanB2 said:

Letwin already under fire from Brexiters - remarkable to see him answering questions from his place in the corner as if he were the government.

Well it was his mad idea.

Why don't you like Parliament taking back control?

To ignore 17.4 million voters who they promised to obey , and giving their sovereignty back to the EU. They are in contempt of the people

Gove has said that No Deal doesn't honour the referendum result, so Parliament is ensuring the result if honoured.

You think Gove's word is the law?

IanB2 said:

Leadsom saying the government will try again to vote the Letwin process down.

There's probably a majority against them just from the MPs who have signed motions for the indicative votes. The government just wants clean hands.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sir Oliver Letwin for PM.

They'd have to "up" the security though as he'd been inviting in all sorts to steal the silver!

RobD said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1110904287998214144

Excellent. Perhaps MPs can now get on with ratifying the WA.

Please for the love of God, kick us out and end this farce.

TrèsDifficile said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kjohnw said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

IanB2 said:

Letwin already under fire from Brexiters - remarkable to see him answering questions from his place in the corner as if he were the government.

Well it was his mad idea.

Why don't you like Parliament taking back control?

To ignore 17.4 million voters who they promised to obey , and giving their sovereignty back to the EU. They are in contempt of the people

Gove has said that No Deal doesn't honour the referendum result, so Parliament is ensuring the result if honoured.

You think Gove's word is the law?

No Deal is incompatible with what both Leave campaigns were selling to voters.

DecrepitJohnL said:

dixiedean said:

Can someone explain the practicality (not the Constitutional logic) of the Cabinet abstaining?
Seems more likely to simply give more chance of success to outcomes not wanted.
It is not as if their individual, personal preferences are a matter of much mystery.

It avoids ministers resigning (like the junior ministers have been doing) and voting against the PM and each other.

But it is a free vote. And Junior Ministers will be taking part.

williamglenn said:

IanB2 said:

Leadsom saying the government will try again to vote the Letwin process down.

There's probably a majority against them just from the MPs who have signed motions for the indicative votes. The government just wants clean hands.

I don’t think signing a motion necessarily means you support the process.

As this impasse continues, I'm warming to the idea of the CM 2.0 plan, and have been reading the summary here: http://betterbrexit.org.uk/

It has flaws, but given none of the available options (incl revoke and Ref2) are particularly palatable in any event, I am beginning to think this offers us a pathway out of the mess, particularly if it does allow us some degree of initial consultative influence as an EEA member on future EU proposals. It also means that if and when we find a frictionless border solution, agreeable to all sides, a future UK Govt could transition us across to that (even if that is not the intention of Boles etc who are supporting it).

The "rule taker" objection is there, but even on the hardest of Bill Cash style Brexits, we will still be a rule taker in practice. The newly emerged EU proposals for embedded speed limiters on cars and on universal summer time all year round (both of which I strongly oppose) are good examples of this. Even on a hard Brexit, we will be beholden to these because no car manufacturer is going to manufacture UK specific models without any of the Brussels enforced gubbins, even if UK law doesn't require it in order to sell here - we will get it anyway because manufacturers will include it. A Hard Brexit UK would have had no influence over that, but will still have to live with EU product standards on everything we buy and sell. Whereas our commitments to Ireland, and desire to avoid Irish reunification, would mean a UK government would in practice have to go along with the universal summertime proposal as a means of avoiding either two timezones in the UK or NI being in a different timezone to the ROI at the UK's behest.

Practical reality will take over regardless of legal obligations.

Of course remaining a full EU member is the only way to mitigate those concerns properly. But doing so would not only be a national humiliation at this stage, it is unthinkable that we could after 3 years just junk the wishes of the 17.4m who made up the narrow majority.

Am I missing something really obviously bad with the CM 2.0 plan?

Bob__Sykes said:

As this impasse continues, I'm warming to the idea of the CM 2.0 plan, and have been reading the summary here: http://betterbrexit.org.uk/

It has flaws, but given none of the available options (incl revoke and Ref2) are particularly palatable in any event, I am beginning to think this offers us a pathway out of the mess, particularly if it does allow us some degree of initial consultative influence as an EEA member on future EU proposals. It also means that if and when we find a frictionless border solution, agreeable to all sides, a future UK Govt could transition us across to that (even if that is not the intention of Boles etc who are supporting it).

The "rule taker" objection is there, but even on the hardest of Bill Cash style Brexits, we will still be a rule taker in practice. The newly emerged EU proposals for embedded speed limiters on cars and on universal summer time all year round (both of which I strongly oppose) are good examples of this. Even on a hard Brexit, we will be beholden to these because no car manufacturer is going to manufacture UK specific models without any of the Brussels enforced gubbins, even if UK law doesn't require it in order to sell here - but we will all get it anyway because manufacturers will include it. A Hard Brexit UK would have had no influence over that, but will still have to live with EU product standards on everything we buy and sell. Whereas our commitments to Ireland, and desire to avoid Irish reunification, would mean a UK government would in practice have to go along with the universal summertime proposal as a means of avoiding either two timezones in the UK or NI being in a different timezone to the ROI at the UK's behest.

Practical reality will take over regardless of legal obligations.

Of course remaining a full EU member is the only way to mitigate those concerns properly. But doing so would not only be a national humiliation at this stage, it is unthinkable that we could after 3 years just junk the wishes of the 17.4m who made up the narrow majority.

Am I missing something really obviously bad with the CM 2.0 plan?

Is it on offer?

IanB2 said:

This whole farrago is pointing up that our entire system is designed for a government with a working majority and breaks down in circumstances when the voters through our flawed voting system don't oblige.

The problem is it wasn't designed, it evolved, in an environment where FTPT mostly produced clear majorities in the Commons for one party or another. You have to go back to periods in the late 18th, early 19th centuries when there was no clear HoC majority and then governments tended to last as long as post-war Italian ones. The only even remotely similar period in the last century was the immediately post-WW1 period when the Liberals were dying and being replace by Labour.

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

I noticed this too:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

Thinks she can get the deal through?

Demob happy?

Yeah, she's quitting tonight.

This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.

At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.

She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.

Find me a single post Topping (a single one) I made going back to the Chequers Deal last year when I didn’t support May’s Deal.

Where in that post did I say that you ever didn't support the deal.

It’s perfectly obvious you were referring to me.

Own it.

LOL

Get over yourself. Whatever you did or didn't say, post or think you remain in the dolt Brexiter category.

You’re a coward who hasn’t got the bollocks to say it to my face, and are now trying to wriggle out of it as you realise you haven’t got a leg to stand on.

My argument was never with you but you decide to get stuck in and hurl some mud my way, all because I picked on your chum and his posting style, as you recognised a kindred spirit.

Pathetic.

I'll say it to your face any time you want.

I have said that I don't care whether you supported the deal or didn't support the deal. I am not wriggling out of anything. I am perfectly happy to accept you have always been an avid supporter of the deal. You are nevertheless a dolt Brexiter.

God, that’s poor.

Basically you’ve admitted you were wrong about everything but you’ve just added “dolt” at the end of it to save a bit of face.

I’ll take that as a victory, thank you.

Good day.

Not wrong about anything. Especially the dolt bit.

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

I noticed this too:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

Thinks she can get the deal through?

Demob happy?

Yeah, she's quitting tonight.

This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.

At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.

She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.

Find me a single post Topping (a single one) I made going back to the Chequers Deal last year when I didn’t support May’s Deal.

Where in that post did I say that you ever didn't support the deal.

It’s perfectly obvious you were referring to me.

Own it.

LOL

Get over yourself. Whatever you did or didn't say, post or think you remain in the dolt Brexiter category.

You’re a coward who hasn’t got the bollocks to say it to my face, and are now trying to wriggle out of it as you realise you haven’t got a leg to stand on.

My argument was never with you but you decide to get stuck in and hurl some mud my way, all because I picked on your chum and his posting style, as you recognised a kindred spirit.

Pathetic.

I'll say it to your face any time you want.

I have said that I don't care whether you supported the deal or didn't support the deal. I am not wriggling out of anything. I am perfectly happy to accept you have always been an avid supporter of the deal. You are nevertheless a dolt Brexiter.

God, that’s poor.

Basically you’ve admitted you were wrong about everything but you’ve just added “dolt” at the end of it to save a bit of face.

I’ll take that as a victory, thank you.

Good day.

Not wrong about anything. Especially the dolt bit.

Come on Topping , extend the hand of friendship

williamglenn said:

TrèsDifficile said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kjohnw said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

IanB2 said:

Letwin already under fire from Brexiters - remarkable to see him answering questions from his place in the corner as if he were the government.

Well it was his mad idea.

Why don't you like Parliament taking back control?

To ignore 17.4 million voters who they promised to obey , and giving their sovereignty back to the EU. They are in contempt of the people

Gove has said that No Deal doesn't honour the referendum result, so Parliament is ensuring the result if honoured.

You think Gove's word is the law?

No Deal is incompatible with what both Leave campaigns were selling to voters.

Yet it's entire compatible with what the vast majority of MPs, including even Grieve, voted for in triggering A50

Bob__Sykes said:

As this impasse continues, I'm warming to the idea of the CM 2.0 plan, and have been reading the summary here: http://betterbrexit.org.uk/

It has flaws, but given none of the available options (incl revoke and Ref2) are particularly palatable in any event, I am beginning to think this offers us a pathway out of the mess, particularly if it does allow us some degree of initial consultative influence as an EEA member on future EU proposals. It also means that if and when we find a frictionless border solution, agreeable to all sides, a future UK Govt could transition us across to that (even if that is not the intention of Boles etc who are supporting it).

The "rule taker" objection is there, but even on the hardest of Bill Cash style Brexits, we will still be a rule taker in practice. The newly emerged EU proposals for embedded speed limiters on cars and on universal summer time all year round (both of which I strongly oppose) are good examples of this. Even on a hard Brexit, we will be beholden to these because no car manufacturer is going to manufacture UK specific models without any of the Brussels enforced gubbins, even if UK law doesn't require it in order to sell here - we will get it anyway because manufacturers will include it. A Hard Brexit UK would have had no influence over that, but will still have to live with EU product standards on everything we buy and sell. Whereas our commitments to Ireland, and desire to avoid Irish reunification, would mean a UK government would in practice have to go along with the universal summertime proposal as a means of avoiding either two timezones in the UK or NI being in a different timezone to the ROI at the UK's behest.

Practical reality will take over regardless of legal obligations.

Of course remaining a full EU member is the only way to mitigate those concerns properly. But doing so would not only be a national humiliation at this stage, it is unthinkable that we could after 3 years just junk the wishes of the 17.4m who made up the narrow majority.

Am I missing something really obviously bad with the CM 2.0 plan?

Who gives a s**t if there's two timezones in the UK or Ireland?

Many, many nations cope just fine with multiple timezones depending upon what makes sense geographically for each nation.

There is a sane argument to be made that permanent summer time would suit England better and permanent winter time would suit Scotland better. If Westminster voted to adopt summer time (or my personal preference is keep daylight savings altogether) and Holyrood voted to adopt winter time then who cares if there's an hours difference between London and Edinburgh?

malcolmg said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

I noticed this too:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

Thinks she can get the deal through?

Demob happy?

Yeah, she's quitting tonight.

This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.

At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.

She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.

Find me a single post Topping (a single one) I made going back to the Chequers Deal last year when I didn’t support May’s Deal.

Where in that post did I say that you ever didn't support the deal.

It’s perfectly obvious you were referring to me.

Own it.

LOL

Get over yourself. Whatever you did or didn't say, post or think you remain in the dolt Brexiter category.

You’re a coward who hasn’t got the bollocks to say it to my face, and are now trying to wriggle out of it as you realise you haven’t got a leg to stand on.

My argument was never with you but you decide to get stuck in and hurl some mud my way, all because I picked on your chum and his posting style, as you recognised a kindred spirit.

Pathetic.

I'll say it to your face any time you want.

I have said that I don't care whether you supported the deal or didn't support the deal. I am not wriggling out of anything. I am perfectly happy to accept you have always been an avid supporter of the deal. You are nevertheless a dolt Brexiter.

God, that’s poor.

Basically you’ve admitted you were wrong about everything but you’ve just added “dolt” at the end of it to save a bit of face.

I’ll take that as a victory, thank you.

Good day.

Not wrong about anything. Especially the dolt bit.

Come on Topping , extend the hand of friendship

Bah humbug

TrèsDifficile said:

williamglenn said:

TrèsDifficile said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kjohnw said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

IanB2 said:

Letwin already under fire from Brexiters - remarkable to see him answering questions from his place in the corner as if he were the government.

Well it was his mad idea.

Why don't you like Parliament taking back control?

To ignore 17.4 million voters who they promised to obey , and giving their sovereignty back to the EU. They are in contempt of the people

Gove has said that No Deal doesn't honour the referendum result, so Parliament is ensuring the result if honoured.

You think Gove's word is the law?

No Deal is incompatible with what both Leave campaigns were selling to voters.

Yet it's entire compatible with what the vast majority of MPs, including even Grieve, voted for in triggering A50

So is revocation. Invoking Article 50 does not predetermine what happens at the end of the process.