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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With a CON leadership contest perhaps imminent new Ipsos-MORI

SystemSystem Posts: 12,172
edited March 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With a CON leadership contest perhaps imminent new Ipsos-MORI poll has good and bad news for Johnson

Above is a chart just issued by Ipsos Mori on its latest polling on which of a number of leading politicians appear “Prime Ministerial”. Theresa May, clearly, gets a home advantage because she is the incumbent but Corbyn will not be happy with his numbers which are the worst of all in those who were polled.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    edited March 2019
    First!

    Like who knows what, later!?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Not fair! That was my first.
  • Will no one think of the people who have money on Lidington at great odds?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    edited March 2019
    Third. Like the 3rd best looking unicorn later.
    Or even fourth.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    The massive petition and massive march seems really to have spooked Leavers. It may not change things now but it raises the stakes hugely for how things turn out. Memories of the Iraq protests.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    In a FPTnP election Boris would be the worst possible choice.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    tlg86 said:

    Not fair! That was my first.

    It's there on the Vanilla site, timed at 1215, the same time stamp as mine. Photo finish.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    That handily reduces the list of options considerably.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    For one glorious moment before I read the header I'd forgotten that Boris had been Foreign Secretary.

    Lucky nothing was happening during that time or we'd be in a real mess.....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,483
    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Not fair! That was my first.

    It's there on the Vanilla site, timed at 1215, the same time stamp as mine. Photo finish.
    Happens all the time. Probably depends on the speed of one's servers. (Stand to be corrected by someone who knows what they're talking about)
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Ishmael_Z said:


    2. Yes, there are all sorts of nasties in the conservative party, like the anti-semitic ex MP Aidan Burley. Do you see that word "ex?" In Labour, he'd be contending for the party leadership. We handle things differently.

    Yeah, here's another Conservative MP who quit after an Islamophobia scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/11/david-cameron-apologises-after-saying-ex-imam-supported-islamic-state

    It took him a bit longer, though...

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.

    He's like Dr. Fell.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497

    Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.

    Here’s the thing: he is, but he’s also totally untrustworthy.

    I think he knows this but he also just can’t help himself.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,700
    Quick question: Will all 16 proposals be put to MPs this afternoon or will Bercow select the final list?
  • The Government needs to show some backbone on Brexit. Sadly it did not do so during these negotiations, (although there are understandably different views in the Tory Party and reasons for doing it the way so far).
    No deal - with proper preparation - would have worked very well from tomorrow, which is the date we promised the electorate.
    However, we are probably going to have to do the best we can with the "deal" and sort the rest of it out. The Commons are likely to stop the whole thing otherwise, and the Government clearly hasn't got the bottle to run down the clock - which it should.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Quick question: Will all 16 proposals be put to MPs this afternoon or will Bercow select the final list?

    Bercow will choose them, I think. But presumably in consultation with Letwin and the other proposers of the original motion.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    Quick question: Will all 16 proposals be put to MPs this afternoon or will Bercow select the final list?

    Bercow will select the list. Some of the proposals are so obviously stupid/impossible that they should not be put to the vote.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Quick question: Will all 16 proposals be put to MPs this afternoon or will Bercow select the final list?

    The latter. A few are clearly out of order, some are duplicates, and some shouldn't really be taken for a variety of reasons. I think it will come down to six or seven choices. My detailed analysis is in last thread.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,700

    Quick question: Will all 16 proposals be put to MPs this afternoon or will Bercow select the final list?

    Bercow will choose them, I think. But presumably in consultation with Letwin and the other proposers of the original motion.
    Thanks.

    Just thinking some MPs are going to struggle if there are more than 10 questions on their multiple choice paper.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    The trouble is hundreds of our MPs are either ignorant of this or are ignoring it for perceived political gain.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,913
    May should get some nice big cartoon diagrams made up to explain the facts to MPs. Everytime they start spouting nonsense May can point at a poster and ask the MPs "what does the Barney the Brexit dog say?"
  • Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.

    Here’s the thing: he is, but he’s also totally untrustworthy.

    I think he knows this but he also just can’t help himself.
    Forget these ratings or Gove's inability to not plot.

    The thought of Dominic Cummings as Number 10 Chief of Staff to PM Gove scares the bejesus out of Tory MPs.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    edited March 2019

    Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.

    Here’s the thing: he is, but he’s also totally untrustworthy.

    I think he knows this but he also just can’t help himself.
    I do find this strange. HE did one thing that I think almost everyone agreed was a great service to the country which was to stop a Boris Premiership in its tracks. So why is this held against him by anyone other than those who continue to support the Blonde One?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    IanB2 said:

    That handily reduces the list of options considerably.
    I don't think it necessarily reduces it because even assuming it's correct, you can do quite a wide range of different things under the existing WA.

    The tricky part is that since it's all the same WA, the PD wouldn't necessarily bind the UK government and the EU if they both wanted something else, and the opposition's leverage potentially disappears as soon as they pass the WA, it's hard to see how MPs can force the government to do something it doesn't want to do. They can vote for whatever arrangement of CU and SM and whatever else floats their boat, but as soon as TMay has got their votes she'll obviously go right back to doing whatever she thinks will produce the friendliest cabinet meetings.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    As a thought experiment, imagine a Freaky Friday where Michael Gove and Boris Johnson exchanged bodies. Michael Gove (the real one, not the one who looked like him) would already be Prime Minister.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,752


    No deal - with proper preparation - would have worked very well from tomorrow, which is the date we promised the electorate.

    Traitor! Splitter! "Preparation" is for pansy boys. Just go for it.

    What's the worst that could happen?

    Remember that if you're dead you can't sue.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1110841211307335680
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,166
    In reality a great poll for Boris, he has more voters thinking he would be a good PM than both Corbyn and any other Tory leadership contender. Only May does better.

    Boris also has fewer people thinking he would make a bad PM than think Corbyn would make a bad PM
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384
    glw said:

    May should get some nice big cartoon diagrams made up to explain the facts to MPs. Everytime they start spouting nonsense May can point at a poster and ask the MPs "what does the Barney the Brexit dog say?"
    In Yes Minister, they called it "The Janet and John Bit."

    Even then, I think Guto Bebb and Mark Francois would struggle.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    TOPPING said:

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    The trouble is hundreds of our MPs are either ignorant of this or are ignoring it for perceived political gain.
    There's a lot of political posturing in the "options" put forward. For example the Nats have put forward "any deal must be agreed with Scottish and Welsh parliaments" yet don't say what the deal is. However strong their point, that isn't an option and now isn't the right time; it's just a position aimed at their domestic audience. Similarly a lot of Tories have proposed "17.4 million people voted for Leave so we should leave", which equally isn't an option and just there for positioning and to create a fuss when Bercow rejects it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    Thank you to the Moderator.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Quick question: Will all 16 proposals be put to MPs this afternoon or will Bercow select the final list?

    lol, there are 16 proposals?
  • oh god... Bill Cash...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Now Cash is making the point about the leaving date and the legal position - this mornings discussion refers. Maybe Cash is the mystery Betfair better.

    PM says International Law takes precedence.
  • oh god... Bill Cash...

    Bill Cash and Andrew Bridgen in the same PMQs?

    Glad I missed this PMQs.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    HYUFD said:

    In reality a great poll for Boris, he has more voters thinking he would be a good PM than both Corbyn and any other Tory leadership contender. Only May does better.

    Boris also has fewer people thinking he would make a bad PM than think Corbyn would make a bad PM

    Do you think if you wanted to stop spinning, you could? Or are those neural pathways irreparably scored into your brain now?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247

    Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.

    Here’s the thing: he is, but he’s also totally untrustworthy.

    I think he knows this but he also just can’t help himself.
    I do find this strange. HE did one thing that I think almost everyone agreed was a great service to the country which was to stop a Boris Premiership in its tracks. So why is this held against him by anyone other than those who continue to support the Blonde One?
    A full quarter of the electorate appear to believe that Johnson is Prime Ministerial in the face of all evidence, so that is bound to make a dent in his figures.
    Notably, far fewer are yet to make their minds up about Johnson than about him, so it's not entirely bad news for Gove.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    HYUFD said:

    In reality a great poll for Boris, he has more voters thinking he would be a good PM than both Corbyn and any other Tory leadership contender. Only May does better.

    Boris also has fewer people thinking he would make a bad PM than think Corbyn would make a bad PM

    Boris is Marmite. Just like a certain Donald J Trump... ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,166
    Also a good poll for Javid as he is the only Tory leadership contender with higher net favourable ratings than May
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Will Gardiner defy the Labour whip to oppose a second ref (surely not?)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,700

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    I beg to differ:

    What I accept is that...
    "You WILL NOT, repeat NOT, be able to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement during an the current agreed extension."

    But a longer extension? Who knows... I think the EU would be very willing to re-negotiate if we extended by a year with a committed purpose. (I'm not saying that's going to happen though.)

    What Bercow should do is strike off the true unicorns like Malthouse - the EU will not agree to drop the backstop from the current deal.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    IanB2 said:

    Now Cash is making the point about the leaving date and the legal position - this mornings discussion refers. Maybe Cash is the mystery Betfair better.

    PM says International Law takes precedence.

    Parliament was never sovereign? :p
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Thank you to the Moderator.

    Did you just break the first rule of PB moderation? :o
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    With someone as totally rubbish as the Maybot getting the highest 'Agree' score, the rest of the contenders might as well give up now.

    Maybe the public define 'having what it takes' to be PM as already living at 10 Downing Street.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    I beg to differ:

    What I accept is that...
    "You WILL NOT, repeat NOT, be able to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement during an the current agreed extension."

    But a longer extension? Who knows... I think the EU would be very willing to re-negotiate if we extended by a year with a committed purpose. (I'm not saying that's going to happen though.)

    What Bercow should do is strike off the true unicorns like Malthouse - the EU will not agree to drop the backstop from the current deal.
    No, Richard T is right on this - look at the Peter Foster tweets.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,700
    RobD said:

    Quick question: Will all 16 proposals be put to MPs this afternoon or will Bercow select the final list?

    lol, there are 16 proposals?
    A number of which can be combined to give more permutations!
  • Will Gardiner defy the Labour whip to oppose a second ref (surely not?)

    Journos on Twitter touting Shad Cab resignations suggest he may.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited March 2019

    oh god... Bill Cash...

    Bill Cash and Andrew Bridgen in the same PMQs?

    Glad I missed this PMQs.
    John Baron now... no deal is fine..

    Surely Private Francois will be called to finish this off?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    So apparently Labour sent Barry Gardiner over to the BBC where he told them a load of stuff then Labour went and announced it was going to do the opposite. Why do they keep sending him?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Typical council tax bills in England will rise by 4.7% in April - the second biggest increase in a decade, official figures show.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47718718
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    edited March 2019

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    I beg to differ:

    What I accept is that...
    "You WILL NOT, repeat NOT, be able to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement during an the current agreed extension."

    But a longer extension? Who knows... I think the EU would be very willing to re-negotiate if we extended by a year with a committed purpose. (I'm not saying that's going to happen though.)

    What Bercow should do is strike off the true unicorns like Malthouse - the EU will not agree to drop the backstop from the current deal.
    No, Richard T is right on this - look at the Peter Foster tweets.
    Other than Malthouse and the unilateral backstop exit option, do any of the options actually require a renegotiation of the WA?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    RobD said:

    Quick question: Will all 16 proposals be put to MPs this afternoon or will Bercow select the final list?

    lol, there are 16 proposals?
    A - A Brexiter proposal objecting to the whole process and seeking to change SOs to prevent it happening again
    B - No Deal exit on 12 April
    C - May's Deal exit on 22 May but with the UK able unilaterally to leave the backstop
    D - Common Market 2.0
    E - Reaffirm the referendum and commit to leave the EU (doesn't say how or when)
    F - Leave but try to stay in a Customs Union
    G - Revoke if a deal isn't agreed
    H - EFTA and EEA
    I - Only leave with a deal agreed with both Scottish and Welsh devolved bodies
    J - Any deal must include commitment to stay in a Customs Union
    K - Labour's Plan (new WA with customs union, alignment to SM, alignment on rights etc)
    L - Revoke unless Parliament approves no deal exit
    M - WA subject to confirmatory referendum (Kyle-Wilson)
    N - Malthouse: WA with new agreement on NI backstop
    O - A Brexiter one that looks like a so-called managed no deal if we cant agree a WA
    P - A Brexiter one, no deal but without anything nasty happening please, if we cant agree a WA


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Disgraceful....

    Macron goes to battle with French unions as he moves to force civil servants to work 35 hours a week

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6855601/Macron-goes-battle-French-unions-moves-force-civil-servants-work-35-hours-week.html

    35hrs a week, its slave labour I tell you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    That is perhaps true (though there are reasons to quibble with it) - but surely the point of the indicative votes is to ascertain if there is any consensus on destination ?
    The WA is not a destination but a means to one - by far and away the easiest, but not the sole means.

    Ans the specific terms of any amendments can be altered.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,913
    So we could still see a May Deal versus No Deal referendum, facilitated by the Labour Party? Genius.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    I beg to differ:

    What I accept is that...
    "You WILL NOT, repeat NOT, be able to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement during an the current agreed extension."

    But a longer extension? Who knows... I think the EU would be very willing to re-negotiate if we extended by a year with a committed purpose. (I'm not saying that's going to happen though.)

    What Bercow should do is strike off the true unicorns like Malthouse - the EU will not agree to drop the backstop from the current deal.
    No, Richard T is right on this - look at the Peter Foster tweets.
    Other than Malthouse and the unilateral backstop exit option, do any of the options actually require a renegotiation of the WA?
    No I don't think so.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Quick question: Will all 16 proposals be put to MPs this afternoon or will Bercow select the final list?

    lol, there are 16 proposals?
    A - A Brexiter proposal objecting to the whole process and seeking to change SOs to prevent it happening again
    B - No Deal exit on 12 April
    C - May's Deal exit on 22 May but with the UK able unilaterally to leave the backstop
    D - Common Market 2.0
    E - Reaffirm the referendum and commit to leave the EU (doesn't say how or when)
    F - Leave but try to stay in a Customs Union
    G - Revoke if a deal isn't agreed
    H - EFTA and EEA
    I - Only leave with a deal agreed with both Scottish and Welsh devolved bodies
    J - Any deal must include commitment to stay in a Customs Union
    K - Labour's Plan (new WA with customs union, alignment to SM, alignment on rights etc)
    L - Revoke unless Parliament approves no deal exit
    M - WA subject to confirmatory referendum (Kyle-Wilson)
    N - Malthouse: WA with new agreement on NI backstop
    O - A Brexiter one that looks like a so-called managed no deal if we cant agree a WA
    P - A Brexiter one, no deal but without anything nasty happening please, if we cant agree a WA
    https://twitter.com/xtophercook/status/1110812278851543042
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,166
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    In reality a great poll for Boris, he has more voters thinking he would be a good PM than both Corbyn and any other Tory leadership contender. Only May does better.

    Boris also has fewer people thinking he would make a bad PM than think Corbyn would make a bad PM

    Boris is Marmite. Just like a certain Donald J Trump... ;)
    Trump won in 2016 of course
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.

    Here’s the thing: he is, but he’s also totally untrustworthy.

    I think he knows this but he also just can’t help himself.
    I do find this strange. HE did one thing that I think almost everyone agreed was a great service to the country which was to stop a Boris Premiership in its tracks. So why is this held against him by anyone other than those who continue to support the Blonde One?
    It's not only that though, many other people accuse him of disloyalty or strongly dislike him for other reasons. David Cameron, Scottish fishermen and English teachers for starters. He does seem to have an unfortunate talent for antagonising people. And his remarks about accepting the deal and unpicking it later add to the general air of suspicion and mistrust.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,166
    HYUFD said:
    Farage's new Brexit Party overtakes UKIP with Yougov
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    I beg to differ:

    What I accept is that...
    "You WILL NOT, repeat NOT, be able to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement during an the current agreed extension."

    But a longer extension? Who knows... I think the EU would be very willing to re-negotiate if we extended by a year with a committed purpose. (I'm not saying that's going to happen though.)

    What Bercow should do is strike off the true unicorns like Malthouse - the EU will not agree to drop the backstop from the current deal.
    No, Richard T is right on this - look at the Peter Foster tweets.
    Other than Malthouse and the unilateral backstop exit option, do any of the options actually require a renegotiation of the WA?
    Your two are C and N. Arguably I and K also, and J implies a different destination.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,700
    edited March 2019

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    I beg to differ:

    What I accept is that...
    "You WILL NOT, repeat NOT, be able to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement during an the current agreed extension."

    But a longer extension? Who knows... I think the EU would be very willing to re-negotiate if we extended by a year with a committed purpose. (I'm not saying that's going to happen though.)

    What Bercow should do is strike off the true unicorns like Malthouse - the EU will not agree to drop the backstop from the current deal.
    No, Richard T is right on this - look at the Peter Foster tweets.
    Well, here's the EU decision Foster quotes from.

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/media/38783/xt20006-en19-003.pdf

    As far as I can see the
    "Such an extension excludes any re-opening of the Withdrawal Agreement. "
    statement applies to this specific extension. Nothing in the document says it will apply to a further extension.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.

    Here’s the thing: he is, but he’s also totally untrustworthy.

    I think he knows this but he also just can’t help himself.
    I do find this strange. HE did one thing that I think almost everyone agreed was a great service to the country which was to stop a Boris Premiership in its tracks. So why is this held against him by anyone other than those who continue to support the Blonde One?
    It's not only that though, many other people accuse him of disloyalty or strongly dislike him for other reasons. David Cameron, Scottish fishermen and English teachers for starters. He does seem to have an unfortunate talent for antagonising people. And his remarks about accepting the deal and unpicking it later add to the general air of suspicion and mistrust.

    Yet he is the good cop in his marriage.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    So apparently Labour sent Barry Gardiner over to the BBC where he told them a load of stuff then Labour went and announced it was going to do the opposite. Why do they keep sending him?

    Haven't you already answered that question in the first sentence?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.

    Here’s the thing: he is, but he’s also totally untrustworthy.

    I think he knows this but he also just can’t help himself.
    Forget these ratings or Gove's inability to not plot.

    The thought of Dominic Cummings as Number 10 Chief of Staff to PM Gove scares the bejesus out of Tory MPs.
    Have a heart. Think of the satirists. They need the Goves in No 10
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I noticed this too:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

    Thinks she can get the deal through?

    Demob happy?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    With someone as totally rubbish as the Maybot getting the highest 'Agree' score, the rest of the contenders might as well give up now.

    Maybe the public define 'having what it takes' to be PM as already living at 10 Downing Street.

    The public set the bar low. Plenty of people still fall below that bar.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Im hearing some Tory MPs being allowed home from the commons tonight before the vote..the whips are suggesting to certain individuals that they have pressing engagements so they can get out of being whipped on the Art 50 extension vote..
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,700

    I noticed this too:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

    Thinks she can get the deal through?

    Demob happy?

    Must be the latter, surely.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    I beg to differ:

    What I accept is that...
    "You WILL NOT, repeat NOT, be able to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement during an the current agreed extension."

    But a longer extension? Who knows... I think the EU would be very willing to re-negotiate if we extended by a year with a committed purpose. (I'm not saying that's going to happen though.)

    What Bercow should do is strike off the true unicorns like Malthouse - the EU will not agree to drop the backstop from the current deal.
    No, Richard T is right on this - look at the Peter Foster tweets.
    Well, here's the EU decision Foster quotes from.

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/media/38783/xt20006-en19-003.pdf

    As far as I can see the "Such an extension excludes any re-opening of the Withdrawal Agreement. " text applies to this specific extension.
    Yes, and of course in principle they could change their minds, but that would go against everything which they have repeatedly said, and I don't see the slightest appetite amongst the EU for doing so.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    I noticed this too:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

    Thinks she can get the deal through?

    Demob happy?

    If I knew I was stepping down as PM, I'd be punching the air for joy.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    glw said:


    So we could still see a May Deal versus No Deal referendum, facilitated by the Labour Party? Genius.


    Just a deal yes/no I think, with the consequences of no left down to parliament (probably yet another extension).

    May would surely go for that if Labour was up for it.
  • Ishmael_Z said:


    2. Yes, there are all sorts of nasties in the conservative party, like the anti-semitic ex MP Aidan Burley. Do you see that word "ex?" In Labour, he'd be contending for the party leadership. We handle things differently.

    Yeah, here's another Conservative MP who quit after an Islamophobia scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/11/david-cameron-apologises-after-saying-ex-imam-supported-islamic-state

    It took him a bit longer, though...

    Or Boris with his many, many, racist jibes. Shouldn't he quit.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    I beg to differ:

    What I accept is that...
    "You WILL NOT, repeat NOT, be able to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement during an the current agreed extension."

    But a longer extension? Who knows... I think the EU would be very willing to re-negotiate if we extended by a year with a committed purpose. (I'm not saying that's going to happen though.)

    What Bercow should do is strike off the true unicorns like Malthouse - the EU will not agree to drop the backstop from the current deal.
    No, Richard T is right on this - look at the Peter Foster tweets.
    Other than Malthouse and the unilateral backstop exit option, do any of the options actually require a renegotiation of the WA?
    Remember that Labour objects to any splitting of the WA and PD. Which is not without merit in some respects, though I think at some point you have to.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    John Cleese: Netflix never returned my calls after comedy pitch

    Monty Python star criticises streaming service for rejecting his ideas – and says ITV pitch was turned down for being too intelligent

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/mar/27/john-cleese-netflix-never-returned-my-calls-after-comedy-pitch

    Perhaps they weren't funny....
  • I noticed this too:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

    Thinks she can get the deal through?

    Demob happy?

    Yeah, she's quitting tonight.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,700

    This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.

    This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
    I beg to differ:

    What I accept is that...
    "You WILL NOT, repeat NOT, be able to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement during an the current agreed extension."

    But a longer extension? Who knows... I think the EU would be very willing to re-negotiate if we extended by a year with a committed purpose. (I'm not saying that's going to happen though.)

    What Bercow should do is strike off the true unicorns like Malthouse - the EU will not agree to drop the backstop from the current deal.
    No, Richard T is right on this - look at the Peter Foster tweets.
    Well, here's the EU decision Foster quotes from.

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/media/38783/xt20006-en19-003.pdf

    As far as I can see the "Such an extension excludes any re-opening of the Withdrawal Agreement. " text applies to this specific extension.
    Yes, and of course in principle they could change their minds, but that would go against everything which they have repeatedly said, and I don't see the slightest appetite amongst the EU for doing so.
    Hard to say. If May, or whoever, said we'd like a CU solution, I am sure they'd be happy to accommodate.

    Time is unlikely to tell as I suspect May's deal will pass... the interesting thing is whether it passes with or without the Kyle amendment.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384
    They've worked out that he's a disgraced sack of shit and amoral sociopathic snake?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,700
    BoJo v Corbyn at the next GE could help the TIGers immensely.

    (Assuming the country survives in the meantime, of course.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    timmo said:

    Im hearing some Tory MPs being allowed home from the commons tonight before the vote..the whips are suggesting to certain individuals that they have pressing engagements so they can get out of being whipped on the Art 50 extension vote..

    The A50 vote will go through and if the Gvt can get Brexiters to go home before it, so much the better.

    The only way I can make sense of the betting patterns is if there is a filibuster attempt lined up for the Lords, presumably tomorrow.

    Meanwhile we have a good body of MPs determined to turn the Letwin process into chaos, both major parties struggling with whether and how to try to whip their members, and everyone else apparently only going to vote 'yes' to their favourite option. It will be a miracle if parliament emerges better regarded than it is right now.

    Meanwhile Labour Shadow Business Minister Pidcock is on BBC PL and I am wondering whether there is any bottom to Labour's barrel.
  • Tory voters see Jeremy Hunt as PM in waiting.
  • HYFUD will be very upset that his beloved Boris is not popular with conservative voters
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,902
    Afternoon all :)

    So in spite of having "taken back control", we know nothing that happens today matters. None of the votes mean very much and nothing will change except we will be a day further down the road to No Deal.

    We have still, as the only games in town, leaving with an agreed WA on 22/5, leaving without an agreed WA on 12/4 or revocation. When Ken Clarke, who seems to know his onions, talked about revocation the other day, he didn't say anything about stopping Brexit. What he implied was that as the current negotiations have floundered, we should cancel and re-instigate A50 after the EU elections and after a suitable time for reflection.

    Now. that could include a GE or it may not - I suppose if it did and a Party won a majority on a particular plan (Norway, Canada Lite, Andorra Heavy or whatever) that would be a mandated position to file for A50 again and re-commence negotiation. At least the EU would be clear where the UK stood and it might well be the second round of negotiations would proceed far more smoothly than the first.

    I'd rather Revoke, sort out exactly what we want and then re-apply A50 on a united and coherent position than either run down the clock with no WA or support what (despite the claims of the May apologists) is a flawed WA.

    The problem is the Conservatives are terrified their voter base will not take kindly to revocation claiming (via the Mail and Express) it's a betrayal of the sacred 23/6/16 Referendum. Maybe but there comes a point when, whether they like it or not, parties can decide to act in the national interest or their own interest and if acting in the national interest is contrary to their own interest, so be it.

    I well remember the siren calls from Conservatives for taxes to be cut in the run up to the 1997 election but Clarke refused and in so doing may have contributed to Blair's landslide but he bequeathed a sound economic position to Brown. Sometimes the best for the country isn't the best for your Party and you have to take the hit in the national interest.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    John Cleese: Netflix never returned my calls after comedy pitch

    Monty Python star criticises streaming service for rejecting his ideas – and says ITV pitch was turned down for being too intelligent

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/mar/27/john-cleese-netflix-never-returned-my-calls-after-comedy-pitch

    Perhaps they weren't funny....

    ITV don't do comedy unless you include their news
  • I noticed this too:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

    Thinks she can get the deal through?

    Demob happy?

    Yeah, she's quitting tonight.
    This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.

    At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    HYFUD will be very upset that his beloved Boris is not popular with conservative voters
    Surely HY will present the latest poll as cast iron proof that whatever it says is really about to happen, as he always does? ;)
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    I noticed this too:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

    Thinks she can get the deal through?

    Demob happy?

    Yeah, she's quitting tonight.
    I appreciate your usual jovial tone, TSE, but it is hardly inconceivable that May leaves as head of the Conservative party with immediate effect - currently 24/1.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I noticed this too:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

    Thinks she can get the deal through?

    Demob happy?

    Yeah, she's quitting tonight.
    Are we sure? Setting up expectations of a resignation announcement then actually saying "nothing has changed" would be a very Theresa May thing to do
  • I noticed this too:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

    Thinks she can get the deal through?

    Demob happy?

    Yeah, she's quitting tonight.
    I appreciate your usual jovial tone, TSE, but it is hardly inconceivable that May leaves as head of the Conservative party with immediate effect - currently 24/1.
    I think she might resign as PM and hand over as PM to someone else but remain as Tory leader for the next few months whilst a new leader is elected.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    I noticed this too:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

    Thinks she can get the deal through?

    Demob happy?

    Yeah, she's quitting tonight.
    This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.

    At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.
    She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited March 2019
    IanB2 said:

    timmo said:

    Im hearing some Tory MPs being allowed home from the commons tonight before the vote..the whips are suggesting to certain individuals that they have pressing engagements so they can get out of being whipped on the Art 50 extension vote..

    The A50 vote will go through and if the Gvt can get Brexiters to go home before it, so much the better.

    The only way I can make sense of the betting patterns is if there is a filibuster attempt lined up for the Lords, presumably tomorrow.

    Meanwhile we have a good body of MPs determined to turn the Letwin process into chaos, both major parties struggling with whether and how to try to whip their members, and everyone else apparently only going to vote 'yes' to their favourite option. It will be a miracle if parliament emerges better regarded than it is right now.

    Meanwhile Labour Shadow Business Minister Pidcock is on BBC PL and I am wondering whether there is any bottom to Labour's barrel.
    The current government has some right idiots, but you take a look at the other team and think you are having a giraffe. Regardless of politics, I genuinely not sure how they would cope trying to keep on top of the day to day aspects of running the country.

    The likes of Gove could start an argument in an empty lift and is constantly plotting, but I don't think people doubt he can actually run the day to day operation of a government department.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I noticed this too:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562

    Thinks she can get the deal through?

    Demob happy?

    Yeah, she's quitting tonight.
    Are we sure? Setting up expectations of a resignation announcement then actually saying "nothing has changed" would be a very Theresa May thing to do
    Or making a cast-iron guarantee to resign by 2030 at the very latest.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    HYFUD will be very upset that his beloved Boris is not popular with conservative voters
    What are you talking about? 90% of respondents had an opinion on him, level with Theresa May and more than any other candidate. Might as well give him the job now.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
This discussion has been closed.