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If you'll allow me a split infinitve: "...a cast-iron guarantee to probably resign by 2030 at the very latest."Stereotomy said:
Or making a cast-iron guarantee to resign by 2030 at the very latest.Stereotomy said:
Are we sure? Setting up expectations of a resignation announcement then actually saying "nothing has changed" would be a very Theresa May thing to doTheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?0 -
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They wouldn't have to. Seumas Milne would be running things.FrancisUrquhart said:
The current government has some right idiots, but you take a look at the other team and think you are having a giraffe. Regardless of politics, I genuinely not sure how they would cope trying to keep on top of the day to day aspects of running the country.IanB2 said:
The A50 vote will go through and if the Gvt can get Brexiters to go home before it, so much the better.timmo said:Im hearing some Tory MPs being allowed home from the commons tonight before the vote..the whips are suggesting to certain individuals that they have pressing engagements so they can get out of being whipped on the Art 50 extension vote..
The only way I can make sense of the betting patterns is if there is a filibuster attempt lined up for the Lords, presumably tomorrow.
Meanwhile we have a good body of MPs determined to turn the Letwin process into chaos, both major parties struggling with whether and how to try to whip their members, and everyone else apparently only going to vote 'yes' to their favourite option. It will be a miracle if parliament emerges better regarded than it is right now.
Meanwhile Labour Shadow Business Minister Pidcock is on BBC PL and I am wondering whether there is any bottom to Labour's barrel.
The likes of Gove could start an argument in an empty lift and is constantly plotting, but I don't think people doubt he can actually run the day to day operation of a government department.0 -
None of the nearly 40 Conservative MPs who I identified last week as irreconcilables have yet shown any sign that they are now reconcilable. Indeed at least one new one, Suella Braverman, has added herself to that list.TOPPING said:
She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.RochdalePioneers said:
This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?
At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.0 -
He's in joint first place for "agree", AND ahead of Corbyn. Can't lose, really.Endillion said:
What are you talking about? 90% of respondents had an opinion on him, level with Theresa May and more than any other candidate. Might as well give him the job now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
HYFUD will be very upset that his beloved Boris is not popular with conservative votersCarlottaVance said:0 -
I thought it was John McDonnell was going to, but concentrating all the power in the "re-educated" treasury?Richard_Nabavi said:
They wouldn't have to. Seumas Milne would be running things.FrancisUrquhart said:
The current government has some right idiots, but you take a look at the other team and think you are having a giraffe. Regardless of politics, I genuinely not sure how they would cope trying to keep on top of the day to day aspects of running the country.IanB2 said:
The A50 vote will go through and if the Gvt can get Brexiters to go home before it, so much the better.timmo said:Im hearing some Tory MPs being allowed home from the commons tonight before the vote..the whips are suggesting to certain individuals that they have pressing engagements so they can get out of being whipped on the Art 50 extension vote..
The only way I can make sense of the betting patterns is if there is a filibuster attempt lined up for the Lords, presumably tomorrow.
Meanwhile we have a good body of MPs determined to turn the Letwin process into chaos, both major parties struggling with whether and how to try to whip their members, and everyone else apparently only going to vote 'yes' to their favourite option. It will be a miracle if parliament emerges better regarded than it is right now.
Meanwhile Labour Shadow Business Minister Pidcock is on BBC PL and I am wondering whether there is any bottom to Labour's barrel.
The likes of Gove could start an argument in an empty lift and is constantly plotting, but I don't think people doubt he can actually run the day to day operation of a government department.0 -
In the spirit of compromise, having listened to colleagues, she is prepared to go in December 2029.Stereotomy said:
Or making a cast-iron guarantee to resign by 2030 at the very latest.Stereotomy said:
Are we sure? Setting up expectations of a resignation announcement then actually saying "nothing has changed" would be a very Theresa May thing to doTheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?0 -
Which poll are you talking aboutEndillion said:
What are you talking about? 90% of respondents had an opinion on him, level with Theresa May and more than any other candidate. Might as well give him the job now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
HYFUD will be very upset that his beloved Boris is not popular with conservative votersCarlottaVance said:0 -
IIUC that's basically what's expected, but then they're coming back with a different voting system???RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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I think Henry Smith has now become a traitor.AlastairMeeks said:
None of the nearly 40 Conservative MPs who I identified last week as irreconcilables have yet shown any sign that they are now reconcilable. Indeed at least one new one, Suella Braverman, has added herself to that list.TOPPING said:
She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.RochdalePioneers said:
This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?
At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.0 -
Plus, the DUP have been uncharacteristically inflexible.AlastairMeeks said:
None of the nearly 40 Conservative MPs who I identified last week as irreconcilables have yet shown any sign that they are now reconcilable. Indeed at least one new one, Suella Braverman, has added herself to that list.TOPPING said:
She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.RochdalePioneers said:
This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?
At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.0 -
Some guidance for MPs in the indicative votes from Westminster Abbey's twitter account:
https://twitter.com/wabbey/status/11108895743462113300 -
I am after my very own unicorn. It is the least unlikely outcome.AlastairMeeks said:
None of the nearly 40 Conservative MPs who I identified last week as irreconcilables have yet shown any sign that they are now reconcilable. Indeed at least one new one, Suella Braverman, has added herself to that list.TOPPING said:
She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.RochdalePioneers said:
This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?
At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.0 -
Thanks - I'll create a special list for him.Sean_F said:
I think Henry Smith has now become a traitor.AlastairMeeks said:
None of the nearly 40 Conservative MPs who I identified last week as irreconcilables have yet shown any sign that they are now reconcilable. Indeed at least one new one, Suella Braverman, has added herself to that list.TOPPING said:
She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.RochdalePioneers said:
This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?
At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.0 -
The Scottish unicorn is chained up by the Royals? Do the SNP know this?AlastairMeeks said:Some guidance for MPs in the indicative votes from Westminster Abbey's twitter account:
https://twitter.com/wabbey/status/11108895743462113300 -
How would a new PM be selected in these circumstances?TheScreamingEagles said:
I think she might resign as PM and hand over as PM to someone else but remain as Tory leader for the next few months whilst a new leader is elected.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I appreciate your usual jovial tone, TSE, but it is hardly inconceivable that May leaves as head of the Conservative party with immediate effect - currently 24/1.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?0 -
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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The problem for Labour is that once the WA is passed, the PD is back in the hands of the government who actually attend the negotiations. I shall repeat my suggestion from a couple of weeks ago, that the transition period after withdrawal should be extended to the end of 2022, by which time there has to be a GE.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Remember that Labour objects to any splitting of the WA and PD. Which is not without merit in some respects, though I think at some point you have to.Stereotomy said:
Other than Malthouse and the unilateral backstop exit option, do any of the options actually require a renegotiation of the WA?Richard_Nabavi said:
No, Richard T is right on this - look at the Peter Foster tweets.Benpointer said:
I beg to differ:Richard_Tyndall said:
This is something that anyone who actually pays attention has known for weeks if not months. Going forward the Speaker should disallow any amendment which does not accept this point.CarlottaVance said:
This does not mean we can't have Norway, Norway+, Canada, Corbyn's preferred version or any other final arrangement. It just means that for them as the next step after Brexit to happen the WA has to pass.
What I accept is that...
"You WILL NOT, repeat NOT, be able to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement during an the current agreed extension."
But a longer extension? Who knows... I think the EU would be very willing to re-negotiate if we extended by a year with a committed purpose. (I'm not saying that's going to happen though.)
What Bercow should do is strike off the true unicorns like Malthouse - the EU will not agree to drop the backstop from the current deal.0 -
Belching contest. Little known constitutional fact, that.anothernick said:
How would a new PM be selected in these circumstances?TheScreamingEagles said:
I think she might resign as PM and hand over as PM to someone else but remain as Tory leader for the next few months whilst a new leader is elected.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I appreciate your usual jovial tone, TSE, but it is hardly inconceivable that May leaves as head of the Conservative party with immediate effect - currently 24/1.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?0 -
In order to enact any of the proposals May's deal must be ratified.Stereotomy said:
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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This doesn't sound like a change of position to me:
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1110861901792243712
One would expect this MEP to be particularly well-placed to know the UK Parliamentary leadership's thinking.0 -
Theresa May tells Her Majesty to call for Jeremy Hunt or David Lidington.anothernick said:
How would a new PM be selected in these circumstances?TheScreamingEagles said:
I think she might resign as PM and hand over as PM to someone else but remain as Tory leader for the next few months whilst a new leader is elected.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I appreciate your usual jovial tone, TSE, but it is hardly inconceivable that May leaves as head of the Conservative party with immediate effect - currently 24/1.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?
Or maybe David Gauke.0 -
May's deal includes the PD, right? I'd have thought some of the proposals would mean having to vote through the WA separately then seek modifications to the PDPhilip_Thompson said:
In order to enact any of the proposals May's deal must be ratified.Stereotomy said:
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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Evidently not impressed by Raab's grasp of geography, either.Sean_F said:
They've worked out that he's a disgraced sack of shit and amoral sociopathic snake?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Also the proposals to leave with no deal or revoke don't require May's deal to be ratified.Stereotomy said:
May's deal includes the PD, right? I'd have thought some of the proposals would mean having to vote through the WA separately then seek modifications to the PDPhilip_Thompson said:
In order to enact any of the proposals May's deal must be ratified.Stereotomy said:
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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Modifications to the bit of paper the EU can instantly bin? I’m sure they’ll be all for that.Stereotomy said:
May's deal includes the PD, right? I'd have thought some of the proposals would mean having to vote through the WA separately then seek modifications to the PDPhilip_Thompson said:
In order to enact any of the proposals May's deal must be ratified.Stereotomy said:
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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But the PD is not legally binding. The only legally binding bit is the WAStereotomy said:
May's deal includes the PD, right? I'd have thought some of the proposals would mean having to vote through the WA separately then seek modifications to the PDPhilip_Thompson said:
In order to enact any of the proposals May's deal must be ratified.Stereotomy said:
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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Aren’t those two predicted to lose by the biggest margin?Stereotomy said:
Also the proposals to leave with no deal or revoke don't require May's deal to be ratified.Stereotomy said:
May's deal includes the PD, right? I'd have thought some of the proposals would mean having to vote through the WA separately then seek modifications to the PDPhilip_Thompson said:
In order to enact any of the proposals May's deal must be ratified.Stereotomy said:
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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The UK Government could instantly bin it too.RobD said:
Modifications to the bit of paper the EU can instantly bin? I’m sure they’ll be all for that.Stereotomy said:
May's deal includes the PD, right? I'd have thought some of the proposals would mean having to vote through the WA separately then seek modifications to the PDPhilip_Thompson said:
In order to enact any of the proposals May's deal must be ratified.Stereotomy said:
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
Especially considering when May goes a new PM isn't bound by her non binding pledges0 -
Why would the EU bin it? They'd be happy with, e.g., a customs union.RobD said:
Modifications to the bit of paper the EU can instantly bin? I’m sure they’ll be all for that.Stereotomy said:
May's deal includes the PD, right? I'd have thought some of the proposals would mean having to vote through the WA separately then seek modifications to the PDPhilip_Thompson said:
In order to enact any of the proposals May's deal must be ratified.Stereotomy said:
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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This is, I am afraid, the biggest unicorn of them all. If we revoke there is no way on earth Parliament will ever let us invoke again.stodge said:Afternoon all
So in spite of having "taken back control", we know nothing that happens today matters. None of the votes mean very much and nothing will change except we will be a day further down the road to No Deal.
We have still, as the only games in town, leaving with an agreed WA on 22/5, leaving without an agreed WA on 12/4 or revocation. When Ken Clarke, who seems to know his onions, talked about revocation the other day, he didn't say anything about stopping Brexit. What he implied was that as the current negotiations have floundered, we should cancel and re-instigate A50 after the EU elections and after a suitable time for reflection.
Now. that could include a GE or it may not - I suppose if it did and a Party won a majority on a particular plan (Norway, Canada Lite, Andorra Heavy or whatever) that would be a mandated position to file for A50 again and re-commence negotiation. At least the EU would be clear where the UK stood and it might well be the second round of negotiations would proceed far more smoothly than the first.
I'd rather Revoke, sort out exactly what we want and then re-apply A50 on a united and coherent position than either run down the clock with no WA or support what (despite the claims of the May apologists) is a flawed WA.
The problem is the Conservatives are terrified their voter base will not take kindly to revocation claiming (via the Mail and Express) it's a betrayal of the sacred 23/6/16 Referendum. Maybe but there comes a point when, whether they like it or not, parties can decide to act in the national interest or their own interest and if acting in the national interest is contrary to their own interest, so be it.
I well remember the siren calls from Conservatives for taxes to be cut in the run up to the 1997 election but Clarke refused and in so doing may have contributed to Blair's landslide but he bequeathed a sound economic position to Brown. Sometimes the best for the country isn't the best for your Party and you have to take the hit in the national interest.0 -
No idea, though I wouldn't be at all surprised (depending on what's selected).RobD said:
Aren’t those two predicted to lose by the biggest margin?Stereotomy said:
Also the proposals to leave with no deal or revoke don't require May's deal to be ratified.Stereotomy said:
May's deal includes the PD, right? I'd have thought some of the proposals would mean having to vote through the WA separately then seek modifications to the PDPhilip_Thompson said:
In order to enact any of the proposals May's deal must be ratified.Stereotomy said:
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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Or Mheresa Tay, a hitherto reclusive Conservative MP known for her striking moustacheTheScreamingEagles said:
Or maybe David Gauke.0 -
The DUP are willing to play a long game, they know their vote is far more solid than the ToriesAlastairMeeks said:This doesn't sound like a change of position to me:
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1110861901792243712
One would expect this MEP to be particularly well-placed to know the UK Parliamentary leadership's thinking.0 -
Find me a single post Topping (a single one) I made going back to the Chequers Deal last year when I didn’t support May’s Deal.TOPPING said:
She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.RochdalePioneers said:
This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?
At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.0 -
It would need to be a very different Parliament.Richard_Tyndall said:
This is, I am afraid, the biggest unicorn of them all. If we revoke there is no way on earth Parliament will ever let us invoke again.stodge said:Afternoon all
So in spite of having "taken back control", we know nothing that happens today matters. None of the votes mean very much and nothing will change except we will be a day further down the road to No Deal.
We have still, as the only games in town, leaving with an agreed WA on 22/5, leaving without an agreed WA on 12/4 or revocation. When Ken Clarke, who seems to know his onions, talked about revocation the other day, he didn't say anything about stopping Brexit. What he implied was that as the current negotiations have floundered, we should cancel and re-instigate A50 after the EU elections and after a suitable time for reflection.
Now. that could include a GE or it may not - I suppose if it did and a Party won a majority on a particular plan (Norway, Canada Lite, Andorra Heavy or whatever) that would be a mandated position to file for A50 again and re-commence negotiation. At least the EU would be clear where the UK stood and it might well be the second round of negotiations would proceed far more smoothly than the first.
I'd rather Revoke, sort out exactly what we want and then re-apply A50 on a united and coherent position than either run down the clock with no WA or support what (despite the claims of the May apologists) is a flawed WA.
The problem is the Conservatives are terrified their voter base will not take kindly to revocation claiming (via the Mail and Express) it's a betrayal of the sacred 23/6/16 Referendum. Maybe but there comes a point when, whether they like it or not, parties can decide to act in the national interest or their own interest and if acting in the national interest is contrary to their own interest, so be it.
I well remember the siren calls from Conservatives for taxes to be cut in the run up to the 1997 election but Clarke refused and in so doing may have contributed to Blair's landslide but he bequeathed a sound economic position to Brown. Sometimes the best for the country isn't the best for your Party and you have to take the hit in the national interest.0 -
It's all falling into place for May.AlastairMeeks said:This doesn't sound like a change of position to me:
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1110861901792243712
One would expect this MEP to be particularly well-placed to know the UK Parliamentary leadership's thinking.0 -
No Mheresa Tay, she's not someone I've tipped as next PM at 100/1 or greater.edmundintokyo said:
Or Mheresa Tay, a hitherto reclusive Conservative MP known for her striking moustacheTheScreamingEagles said:
Or maybe David Gauke.0 -
She most certainly would. She would luv it.Andrew said:Just a deal yes/no I think, with the consequences of no left down to parliament (probably yet another extension).
May would surely go for that if Labour was up for it.
For me, Kyle Wilson should stay on the bench at this point. Should be brought on only if and when the most favoured PD is identified (May, Norway, 2.0, whatever it is) and should be used in a striker role, i.e. as an amendment to get it over the line and in the back of the net.
The confirmatory REF2 lock is process and should not be considered alongside what are outcomes. It is illogical to do that and it further messes up what is already a messed up exercise.0 -
The govt should release some most loyal rebels for the various customs stuff. The legal effect is to get May's deal througjPhilip_Thompson said:
But the PD is not legally binding. The only legally binding bit is the WAStereotomy said:
May's deal includes the PD, right? I'd have thought some of the proposals would mean having to vote through the WA separately then seek modifications to the PDPhilip_Thompson said:
In order to enact any of the proposals May's deal must be ratified.Stereotomy said:
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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https://twitter.com/ffsake_/status/1110890890124582912?s=21
God I hate these poshos who pretend to be ordinary men of the people.0 -
Whether Corbyn becomes PM will depend very much IMO on what the main focus of the election campaign is. If it's the economy, he wins. If it's immigration/social issues, he won't.0
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Technically it isn't his family castle, it is his wifes fathers, no? Like Dave, he married into the landed gentry.TheScreamingEagles said:https://twitter.com/ffsake_/status/1110890890124582912?s=21
God I hate these poshos who pretend to be ordinary men of the people.0 -
Well they are his family.FrancisUrquhart said:
Technically it isn't his family castle, it is his wifes fathers, no?TheScreamingEagles said:https://twitter.com/ffsake_/status/1110890890124582912?s=21
God I hate these poshos who pretend to be ordinary men of the people.0 -
BREAKING: looks like Parliament is heading for a Friday sitting0
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Mr Venezuela wins in economy? A scary thought.AndyJS said:Whether Corbyn becomes PM will depend very much IMO on what the main focus of the election campaign is. If it's the economy, he wins. If it's immigration/social issues, he won't.
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And they'll be in tune with most of the people, who won't want to get on this horror train ride again for at least a generation.Richard_Tyndall said:
This is, I am afraid, the biggest unicorn of them all. If we revoke there is no way on earth Parliament will ever let us invoke again.stodge said:Afternoon all
So in spite of having "taken back control", we know nothing that happens today matters. None of the votes mean very much and nothing will change except we will be a day further down the road to No Deal.
We have still, as the only games in town, leaving with an agreed WA on 22/5, leaving without an agreed WA on 12/4 or revocation. When Ken Clarke, who seems to know his onions, talked about revocation the other day, he didn't say anything about stopping Brexit. What he implied was that as the current negotiations have floundered, we should cancel and re-instigate A50 after the EU elections and after a suitable time for reflection.
Now. that could include a GE or it may not - I suppose if it did and a Party won a majority on a particular plan (Norway, Canada Lite, Andorra Heavy or whatever) that would be a mandated position to file for A50 again and re-commence negotiation. At least the EU would be clear where the UK stood and it might well be the second round of negotiations would proceed far more smoothly than the first.
I'd rather Revoke, sort out exactly what we want and then re-apply A50 on a united and coherent position than either run down the clock with no WA or support what (despite the claims of the May apologists) is a flawed WA.
The problem is the Conservatives are terrified their voter base will not take kindly to revocation claiming (via the Mail and Express) it's a betrayal of the sacred 23/6/16 Referendum. Maybe but there comes a point when, whether they like it or not, parties can decide to act in the national interest or their own interest and if acting in the national interest is contrary to their own interest, so be it.
I well remember the siren calls from Conservatives for taxes to be cut in the run up to the 1997 election but Clarke refused and in so doing may have contributed to Blair's landslide but he bequeathed a sound economic position to Brown. Sometimes the best for the country isn't the best for your Party and you have to take the hit in the national interest.0 -
Does Dominic Cummings have an actual job between referendum campaigns?TheScreamingEagles said:https://twitter.com/ffsake_/status/1110890890124582912?s=21
God I hate these poshos who pretend to be ordinary men of the people.0 -
Are you the same Richard Tyndall who predicts that if we revoke, a majority government committed to Brexit would get elected in short order? There seems to be a contradiction...Richard_Tyndall said:This is, I am afraid, the biggest unicorn of them all. If we revoke there is no way on earth Parliament will ever let us invoke again.
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He is not even humanAlastairMeeks said:Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.
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My take is that the government is banking on this afternoon being chaos (helped along by the antics of a lot on their own side) and that all the options may have more against than for. Then they pop up with MV3 on Friday, pre-empting the planned 'Letwin: the sequel' on Monday.Stereotomy said:
For some reason a lot of people here are assuming that even if options come much closer to a majority than May's deal, they'll be eliminated and May's deal will be the last one standing. I'm not sure why.AndyJS said:
I assume they'll continue with whichever option is the least unpopular, even if it was not supported by a majority of MPs.RobD said:So what are the odds all the proposals get voted down. That’d be a laugh.
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"The confirmatory REF2 lock is process" - no it is of the UTMOST substance.kinabalu said:
She most certainly would. She would luv it.Andrew said:Just a deal yes/no I think, with the consequences of no left down to parliament (probably yet another extension).
May would surely go for that if Labour was up for it.
For me, Kyle Wilson should stay on the bench at this point. Should be brought on only if and when the most favoured PD is identified (May, Norway, 2.0, whatever it is) and should be used in a striker role, i.e. as an amendment to get it over the line and in the back of the net.
The confirmatory REF2 lock is process and should not be considered alongside what are outcomes. It is illogical to do that and it further messes up what is already a messed up exercise.0 -
What does Beckett's Second Referendum Option say?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Do you not mean more than ONEBenpointer said:
Thanks.Richard_Nabavi said:
Bercow will choose them, I think. But presumably in consultation with Letwin and the other proposers of the original motion.Benpointer said:Quick question: Will all 16 proposals be put to MPs this afternoon or will Bercow select the final list?
Just thinking some MPs are going to struggle if there are more than 10 questions on their multiple choice paper.0 -
When will Bercow announce which amendments will be voted on?0
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That is a niche reference to make on PB. Chapeau.Stereotomy said:0 -
Gordon Taylor is set to announce he is standing down as chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association after 38 years in the role.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/476912990 -
If the Business Motion passes - vote at 3pm.RoyalBlue said:When will Bercow announce which amendments will be voted on?
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Where in that post did I say that you ever didn't support the deal.Casino_Royale said:
Find me a single post Topping (a single one) I made going back to the Chequers Deal last year when I didn’t support May’s Deal.TOPPING said:
She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.RochdalePioneers said:
This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?
At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.0 -
She is moving Kyle-WilsonSean_F said:
What does Beckett's Second Referendum Option say?CarlottaVance said:0 -
That any deal agreed by the Commons has to be approved by the people.Sean_F said:
What does Beckett's Second Referendum Option say?CarlottaVance said:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmagenda/OP190327.pdf0 -
Indicative votes my anus - they're being whipped.
So, with the DUP still in No Surrender mode and cowardly custards like Mogg only willing to vote for it if the DUP will, that still has May's deal stone cold dead. Which leaves revoke or no deal. Regardless of the pantomime being acted out this afternoon.0 -
Just says "put deal to vote" does not say what else "Remain"/No Deal/Free Unicorns" is also on the ballot paper - which is why Corbyn can support it.Sean_F said:
What does Beckett's Second Referendum Option say?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Reckon it'll be a lot later than that. Remember that the ERG wreckers will surely push their whole batch of procedural amendments to division, 15 minutes each time.CarlottaVance said:
If the Business Motion passes - vote at 3pm.RoyalBlue said:When will Bercow announce which amendments will be voted on?
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https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2017-02-01/division/43D8AC50-30D9-4CF0-8DCD-83439022CBB1/EuropeanUnion(NotificationOfWithdrawal)Bill?outputType=PartyRichard_Tyndall said:
This is, I am afraid, the biggest unicorn of them all. If we revoke there is no way on earth Parliament will ever let us invoke again.
This was the Party split of the vote in February 2017 - the Noes included Ken Clarke, all the LDs and SNP MPs along with Caroline Lucas. Labour voted 4-1 (roughly) in favour.
I suspect Ken thought we weren't ready but he was in a minority of one but as I've often had to explain, a majority simply means the largest number of people wrong about any given subject at any given time.
My view is following a Conservative majority win in a GE, there would be a majority to invoke so that's the gamble of revocation if the Parliamentary numbers drop your way.
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So parliament is sovereign, except when it derogates authority to the people, unless it doesn't like the result, in which case it picks back up authority in order to rederogate it back to the people.williamglenn said:
That any deal agreed by the Commons has to be approved by the people.Sean_F said:
What does Beckett's Second Referendum Option say?CarlottaVance said:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmagenda/OP190327.pdf
Have I understood that all correctly ?0 -
Us Tories are a bit like that.malcolmg said:
He is not even humanAlastairMeeks said:Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.
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sex chez Dodd must be very monotonous if they never change positionAlastairMeeks said:This doesn't sound like a change of position to me:
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1110861901792243712
One would expect this MEP to be particularly well-placed to know the UK Parliamentary leadership's thinking.0 -
I mean, the worst you can say about Corbo is that he is a lying fucktard who despises Britain but he's still several rungs up the evolutionary ladder from Gove and would be a far better PM.malcolmg said:
He is not even humanAlastairMeeks said:Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.
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Didn’t Mogg say he’d vote for it?RochdalePioneers said:Indicative votes my anus - they're being whipped.
So, with the DUP still in No Surrender mode and cowardly custards like Mogg only willing to vote for it if the DUP will, that still has May's deal stone cold dead. Which leaves revoke or no deal. Regardless of the pantomime being acted out this afternoon.0 -
He chickened out after the abuse he received to saying he'd back the deal if the DUP backed it.RobD said:
Didn’t Mogg say he’d vote for it?RochdalePioneers said:Indicative votes my anus - they're being whipped.
So, with the DUP still in No Surrender mode and cowardly custards like Mogg only willing to vote for it if the DUP will, that still has May's deal stone cold dead. Which leaves revoke or no deal. Regardless of the pantomime being acted out this afternoon.0 -
guaranteed they wern't funny for sureFrancisUrquhart said:John Cleese: Netflix never returned my calls after comedy pitch
Monty Python star criticises streaming service for rejecting his ideas – and says ITV pitch was turned down for being too intelligent
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/mar/27/john-cleese-netflix-never-returned-my-calls-after-comedy-pitch
Perhaps they weren't funny....0 -
If parliament derogated authority on this question to the people, surely the meaningful vote on the outcome of negotiations should be held by the people, not by MPs?Pulpstar said:
So parliament is sovereign, except when it derogates authority to the people, unless it doesn't like the result, in which case it picks back up authority in order to rederogate it back to the people.williamglenn said:
That any deal agreed by the Commons has to be approved by the people.Sean_F said:
What does Beckett's Second Referendum Option say?CarlottaVance said:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmagenda/OP190327.pdf
Have I understood that all correctly ?0 -
Alien grammar as well.RobD said:
Us Tories are a bit like that.malcolmg said:
He is not even humanAlastairMeeks said:Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.
0 -
And are we to suppose that Tory MPs would meekly accept May's imposition of her chosen successor on them (even if HM agreed to go along with it, which seems very unlikely)?TheScreamingEagles said:
Theresa May tells Her Majesty to call for Jeremy Hunt or David Lidington.anothernick said:
How would a new PM be selected in these circumstances?TheScreamingEagles said:
I think she might resign as PM and hand over as PM to someone else but remain as Tory leader for the next few months whilst a new leader is elected.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I appreciate your usual jovial tone, TSE, but it is hardly inconceivable that May leaves as head of the Conservative party with immediate effect - currently 24/1.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?
Or maybe David Gauke.0 -
He probably shouldn’t have got that twitter account.TheScreamingEagles said:
He chickened out after the abuse he received to saying he'd back the deal if the DUP backed it.RobD said:
Didn’t Mogg say he’d vote for it?RochdalePioneers said:Indicative votes my anus - they're being whipped.
So, with the DUP still in No Surrender mode and cowardly custards like Mogg only willing to vote for it if the DUP will, that still has May's deal stone cold dead. Which leaves revoke or no deal. Regardless of the pantomime being acted out this afternoon.0 -
https://twitter.com/ParlyApp/status/1110893370560471040IanB2 said:
Reckon it'll be a lot later than that. Remember that the ERG wreckers will surely push their whole batch of procedural amendments to division, 15 minutes each time.CarlottaVance said:
If the Business Motion passes - vote at 3pm.RoyalBlue said:When will Bercow announce which amendments will be voted on?
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Are they all GagaTheScreamingEagles said:
Tory voters see Jeremy Hunt as PM in waiting.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Always a delight to spot an error in a history. I listen to an audiobook about British history whilst exercising (except the bike, for which my stints are as long as a Blackadder episode) and was surprised to hear that Geoffrey of Anjou was 'the only son present' at Henry II's passing.
Grim news, given he died three years earlier.0 -
It is amazing to think he is the same guy involved in some of the most iconic comedy of the past.malcolmg said:
guaranteed they wern't funny for sureFrancisUrquhart said:John Cleese: Netflix never returned my calls after comedy pitch
Monty Python star criticises streaming service for rejecting his ideas – and says ITV pitch was turned down for being too intelligent
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/mar/27/john-cleese-netflix-never-returned-my-calls-after-comedy-pitch
Perhaps they weren't funny....0 -
Debate on the programme motion is underway in the Commons.0
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We’re just generally weird.IanB2 said:
Alien grammar as well.RobD said:
Us Tories are a bit like that.malcolmg said:
He is not even humanAlastairMeeks said:Michael Gove's figures are appalling. He's well known and the public are clear in their minds that he's not Prime Ministerial.
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No I am not. I don't remember ever having made that claim. Indeed I have said often on here that if we revoke as far as I am concerned this country is no longer a democracy. I suspect you have become so completely deluded by your Europhile disease that you have now just started making stuff up.williamglenn said:
Are you the same Richard Tyndall who predicts that if we revoke, a majority government committed to Brexit would get elected in short order? There seems to be a contradiction...Richard_Tyndall said:This is, I am afraid, the biggest unicorn of them all. If we revoke there is no way on earth Parliament will ever let us invoke again.
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On the earlier subject of 'jobs worth' and people implementing rules regardless of circumstances - Back in January we got a parking ticket. We didn't know until we got the follow up because it had obviously blown away or been nicked.
Anyway we had paid for the parking but the voice recognition software had mistaken an F for an S on our registration so there was a simple provable explanation. The penalty has been waived.
However the letter says 'I should point out that I shall be unable to cancel and further Notices incurred in similar circumstances'. I was livid by the arrogance of this comment. We had paid and could prove it and it wasn't our mistake. You damn well will cancel future tickets if it happens again!
I was told if it happens again it will not be cancelled and I would have to go thru' the appeals process which presumably I would win. What a pointless exercise.
What is wrong with these people? What is the point in penalising people who have obeyed the rules?0 -
Sir Oliver Letwin for PM.0
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It’s perfectly obvious you were referring to me.TOPPING said:
Where in that post did I say that you ever didn't support the deal.Casino_Royale said:
Find me a single post Topping (a single one) I made going back to the Chequers Deal last year when I didn’t support May’s Deal.TOPPING said:
She's probably relaxed because the Commons took back control and guess what? Even (k)nobs like JRM and our very own @******_****** realise that when you get down and dirty, which is where we are now, her deal is the only game in town.RochdalePioneers said:
This. With the concluding missive "fuck the lot of you" as she walks from the '22 noisly farting.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, she's quitting tonight.CarlottaVance said:I noticed this too:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1110883371276738562
Thinks she can get the deal through?
Demob happy?
At least Major had the style to say "I lost. I quit. See ya" and then go to the cricket where he could sit there grinning at the cameras through his shades.
Own it.0 -
0
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Yes, but once the debate on the procedural motion concludes, all the amendments (go look at how many there are) need to be decided, then the main motion needs to be decided.CarlottaVance said:
https://twitter.com/ParlyApp/status/1110893370560471040IanB2 said:
Reckon it'll be a lot later than that. Remember that the ERG wreckers will surely push their whole batch of procedural amendments to division, 15 minutes each time.CarlottaVance said:
If the Business Motion passes - vote at 3pm.RoyalBlue said:When will Bercow announce which amendments will be voted on?
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Not for much longer, even the fearties are growing a backboneRichard_Nabavi said:
The Scottish unicorn is chained up by the Royals? Do the SNP know this?AlastairMeeks said:Some guidance for MPs in the indicative votes from Westminster Abbey's twitter account:
https://twitter.com/wabbey/status/11108895743462113300 -
So what is the SNP's price for supporting the now imminent and inevitable Labour minority government? I reckon Indyref2 and Defence Secretary to nobble Trident which is a price Corbo will happily pay.0
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https://twitter.com/jc4southsuffolk/status/1110897362787012608
That looks like doubly good news for the Remain end of Parliament.0 -
We really have plumbed new lows in the self-awareness stakes when Casino Royale is accusing other posters of being pompous and rude.
Funny old world.0 -
Boris is a busted flush. His "rise above politics, popular man of the people" image was destroyed by his leading the Referendum campaign, and his credibility as a top tier politician was destroyed by his time as FFS. It is remarkable that his Tory backers cannot see this.CarlottaVance said:Yesterday's man:
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/11108687944471552000 -
This can be read two ways but I think it means that Labour wouldn't have a referendum... rather having one on no brexit.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/11108985370033971200 -
I'd have thought for the DUP the only permissable position would be Missionary.Alanbrooke said:
sex chez Dodd must be very monotonous if they never change positionAlastairMeeks said:This doesn't sound like a change of position to me:
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1110861901792243712
One would expect this MEP to be particularly well-placed to know the UK Parliamentary leadership's thinking.0