politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What four years of Govey as EdSec did to the teaching vote
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What four years of Govey as EdSec did to the teaching vote
With Theresa May’s long term prospects in the job not looking very good there’s a lot of focus in the betting markets on who will succeed her as Conservative leader and Prime Minister. Currently the joint favourites are the ex-Mayor and former Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson and the current environment secretary, Michael Gove.
Comments
-
Oh dear, you forget how toxic Gove can be.
That said he was being advised by Dom Cummings at Education and those who deal with Cummings think he’s a [moderated] and think he’s HMV.0 -
That said everyone in the Justice system loved him.0
-
A former chief inspector of schools said LGBT rights lessons should be reinstated, despite parents' protests.
The No Outsiders programme at five Birmingham schools stopped when parents said it was age-inappropriate and incompatible with Islam.
Sir Michael Wilshaw, the former head of Ofsted, said people had to accept they were "living in this country with the values that this country holds".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-476926170 -
Third like Boris0
-
"A very aggressive individual who was determined to make an impact."
i.e. "effective" ...0 -
-
I think it’s the last chance to get behind the deal.Scott_P said:0 -
Schools are AWFUL post Gove. All that focusing on maths, English and science the kids have to do now - where will our media studies grads of the future come from ?TheScreamingEagles said:Oh dear, you forget how toxic Gove can be.
That said he was being advised by Dom Cummings at Education and those who deal with Cummings think he’s a [moderated] and think he’s HMV.
0 -
Seven injured as Gaza rocket hits home in central Israel
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said the rocket that hit the house in Mishmeret was launched from Rafah in southern Gaza, about 120km (75 miles) away.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47689684
Has somebody been rearming Hamas?0 -
Curse of the new thread. FPT:
Regarding the part of your otherwise well-argued answer I have highlighted in bold: the referendum was explicitly advisory on Parliament, not binding.Richard_Tyndall said:The difference as I see it - and I do recognise my purist view is not shared by many - is that at a GE we do not vote for any individual policy, we vote for an individual representative. As long as that representative is allowed to take their seat in Parliament the contract with the electorate has been fulfilled. If subsequently there is a recall and a new vote because the MP turns out to be unfit to hold office it is not a problem as the original vote was respected.
In the referendum we voted for a particular policy. Until such times as that policy is enacted we have not fulfilled the contract. As I keep repeating (ad nauseum I know) democracy is not just about asking a question, it is about abiding by the answer.
Once we have left then it would clearly be ridiculous to refuse another referendum if that is what is wanted. And if Remain won then we would be duty bound to rejoin the EU under whatever conditions they ask before asking the public again.
0 -
Is English a good GCSE / A level for media studies?TGOHF said:
Schools are AWFUL post Gove. All that focusing on maths, English and science the kids have to do now - where will our media studies grads of the future come from ?TheScreamingEagles said:Oh dear, you forget how toxic Gove can be.
That said he was being advised by Dom Cummings at Education and those who deal with Cummings think he’s a [moderated] and think he’s HMV.0 -
"On the World at One the housing minister Kit Malthouse dismissed the Letwin plan for indicative votes on Brexit, echoing what Number 10 said about it earlier. Matlhouse said:
I hope members across the house realise that it has significantly detrimental constitutional implications and will vote it down so that we can continue with an orderly, iterative process of reaching consensus across the house rather than a kind of X Factor."
Meanwhile, some Labour MP's still think MV3 is about to go through. Collective delusion is still the order of the day.0 -
Gove is very bright but he is only good in small doses. He has to be shuffled every couple of years because it just takes it too far and doesn’t know when to stop.
He also loves the drama and can’t help but plot.
But, he achieved interesting, considered and helpful change at Education, Justice and Environment and also was behind Brexit too.
You can’t deny he’s a haymaker.0 -
Gove has never been Education Secretary for Wales....not sure why teachers in Wales would have been included in poll????0
-
You don't need to be the former to be the latter. Indeed generally the two are incompatible.TGOHF said:"A very aggressive individual who was determined to make an impact."
i.e. "effective" ...0 -
Too blooming right.FrancisUrquhart said:A former chief inspector of schools said LGBT rights lessons should be reinstated, despite parents' protests.
The No Outsiders programme at five Birmingham schools stopped when parents said it was age-inappropriate and incompatible with Islam.
Sir Michael Wilshaw, the former head of Ofsted, said people had to accept they were "living in this country with the values that this country holds".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-47692617
Out of the sorry shower that is the Cabinet - or the even worse cavalcade of wit & beauty (sic) on the back benches, Gove strikes me as the least worst option.
Just get the deal over the line first.0 -
0
-
Some of his best friends are gay?CarlottaVance said:Ever the charmer....
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110182267186569218
0 -
No 10 has just said it won't be this week. (Or at least refused to confirm that it would be this week.)WhisperingOracle said:"On the World at One the housing minister Kit Malthouse dismissed the Letwin plan for indicative votes on Brexit, echoing what Number 10 said about it earlier. Matlhouse said:
I hope members across the house realise that it has significantly detrimental constitutional implications and will vote it down so that we can continue with an orderly, iterative process of reaching consensus across the house rather than a kind of X Factor."
Meanwhile, some Labour MP's still think MV3 is about to go through. Collective delusion is still the order of the day.
I was expecting more taking up of the Article 50 solution by now - but I guess the first penguin to jump in the water is the one that gets eaten by the seal.0 -
What is it about this current Brexit impasse that suggests he wasn't correct to take a blade to the civil service ? The DoE was the first to feel the pain of the reality of the 21st century.Casino_Royale said:Gove is very bright but he is only good in small doses. He has to be shuffled every couple of years because it just takes it too far and doesn’t know when to stop.
0 -
Speaking as a teacher, it appeared to me that Gove was allowed to be a complete loose cannon by Cameron, who didn't care about state education.
Many of the issues we face now are as a result of his short term thinking and policymaking via headlines in the Telegraph. Very little was thought through, and we now have a recruitment disaster due to the fracturing and over complication of Initial Teacher Training routes by Gove.
The obsession with constant qualification reform is a feature of all Education Ministers, but his attempt at a concurrent reform of GCSE and A Level made a lot of pointless work for people.
On another note, the notion that teachers are all a load of raging marxists may be a favourite of the Daily Mail, but is not borne out by my experience in reality. I've known as many Tory teachers as I have Labour voters. I used to be a very woolly liberal on social policy, until I worked in safeguarding, and saw the behaviour of some adults (despite what I thought, I'd clearly led a very sheltered life until then). I also did some work with Halfon when he was Skills Minister, and was impressed by him.0 -
"Far-right Italian deputy Matteo Salvini takes Basilicata in south
Deputy PM renews pledge to change Europe as 24 years of leftwing rule ends in region"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/25/far-right-italian-deputy-matteo-salvini-takes-basilicata-in-south0 -
That is true but I am afraid that argument doesn't wash with the public at large when both sides of the argument were telling us that it would be binding.Benpointer said:Curse of the new thread. FPT:
Regarding the part of your otherwise well-argued answer I have highlighted in bold: the referendum was explicitly advisory on Parliament, not binding.Richard_Tyndall said:The difference as I see it - and I do recognise my purist view is not shared by many - is that at a GE we do not vote for any individual policy, we vote for an individual representative. As long as that representative is allowed to take their seat in Parliament the contract with the electorate has been fulfilled. If subsequently there is a recall and a new vote because the MP turns out to be unfit to hold office it is not a problem as the original vote was respected.
In the referendum we voted for a particular policy. Until such times as that policy is enacted we have not fulfilled the contract. As I keep repeating (ad nauseum I know) democracy is not just about asking a question, it is about abiding by the answer.
Once we have left then it would clearly be ridiculous to refuse another referendum if that is what is wanted. And if Remain won then we would be duty bound to rejoin the EU under whatever conditions they ask before asking the public again.0 -
I'd have said anyone who upsets the NUT and the teaching profession in general is probably doing a good job at Education.
Gove's return to a focus on standards, exams and "traditional" core subjects was welcome in many homes across the country.
That a tory wasn't welcomed by the payroll vote during a period of austerity, whilst trying to reform the system is hardly the headline of the century.0 -
Teachers are still under the misapprehension that schools are for their benefit not parents.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Speaking as a teacher, it appeared to me that Gove was allowed to be a complete loose cannon by Cameron, who didn't care about state education.
Many of the issues we face now are as a result of his short term thinking and policymaking via headlines in the Telegraph. Very little was thought through, and we now have a recruitment disaster due to the fracturing and over complication of Initial Teacher Training routes by Gove.
The obsession with constant qualification reform is a feature of all Education Ministers, but his attempt at a concurrent reform of GCSE and A Level made a lot of pointless work for people.
On another note, the notion that teachers are all a load of raging marxists may be a favourite of the Daily Mail, but is not borne out by my experience in reality. I've known as many Tory teachers as I have Labour voters. I used to be a very woolly liberal on social policy, until I worked in safeguarding, and saw the behaviour of some adults (despite what I thought, I'd clearly led a very sheltered life until then). I also did some work with Halfon when he was Skills Minister, and was impressed by him.
Teachers hated the switch from being assessed on "value add" rather than "level of attainment".
As a parent , our primary school had rested on it's fat laurels for too long and got a mighty shock when OFSTED came a calling post Gove - the Head Teacher stood down and we got a far better replacement.0 -
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110182854904950785RobD said:
Some of his best friends are gay?CarlottaVance said:Ever the charmer....
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/11101822671865692180 -
Gove's role in making teaching such an unrewarding profession that nobody wants to do it has led to a recruitment crisis so bad that some of my local schools are now closing on Friday afternoons. This is very much less welcome in homes around this part of the country.RobinWiggs said:I'd have said anyone who upsets the NUT and the teaching profession in general is probably doing a good job at Education.
Gove's return to a focus on standards, exams and "traditional" core subjects was welcome in many homes across the country.
That a tory wasn't welcomed by the payroll vote during a period of austerity, whilst trying to reform the system is hardly the headline of the century.0 -
Schools are for the benefit of the children.TGOHF said:
Teachers are still under the misapprehension that schools are for their benefit not parents.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Speaking as a teacher, it appeared to me that Gove was allowed to be a complete loose cannon by Cameron, who didn't care about state education.
Many of the issues we face now are as a result of his short term thinking and policymaking via headlines in the Telegraph. Very little was thought through, and we now have a recruitment disaster due to the fracturing and over complication of Initial Teacher Training routes by Gove.
The obsession with constant qualification reform is a feature of all Education Ministers, but his attempt at a concurrent reform of GCSE and A Level made a lot of pointless work for people.
On another note, the notion that teachers are all a load of raging marxists may be a favourite of the Daily Mail, but is not borne out by my experience in reality. I've known as many Tory teachers as I have Labour voters. I used to be a very woolly liberal on social policy, until I worked in safeguarding, and saw the behaviour of some adults (despite what I thought, I'd clearly led a very sheltered life until then). I also did some work with Halfon when he was Skills Minister, and was impressed by him.
Teachers hated the switch from being assessed on "value add" rather than "level of attainment".
As a parent , our primary school had rested on it's fat laurels for too long and got a mighty shock when OFSTED came a calling post Gove - the Head Teacher stood down and we got a far better replacement.
Most teachers I have ever worked with were motivated by this fact. A decent HT will identify anyone timeserving and move them on. One of the things Gove got right was fast tracking capability procedures.0 -
That poor judge.CarlottaVance said:
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110182854904950785RobD said:
Some of his best friends are gay?CarlottaVance said:Ever the charmer....
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/11101822671865692180 -
The obsession on data seems extraordinary. More and more seems expected of teachers. Some of the changes have been good. The GCSE now does a much better job of dividing the very very top from the top and are much more stringent.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Schools are for the benefit of the children.TGOHF said:
Teachers are still under the misapprehension that schools are for their benefit not parents.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Speaking as a teacher, it appeared to me that Gove was allowed to be a complete loose cannon by Cameron, who didn't care about state education.
Many of the issues we face now are as a result of his short term thinking and policymaking via headlines in the Telegraph. Very little was thought through, and we now have a recruitment disaster due to the fracturing and over complication of Initial Teacher Training routes by Gove.
The obsession with constant qualification reform is a feature of all Education Ministers, but his attempt at a concurrent reform of GCSE and A Level made a lot of pointless work for people.
On another note, the notion that teachers are all a load of raging marxists may be a favourite of the Daily Mail, but is not borne out by my experience in reality. I've known as many Tory teachers as I have Labour voters. I used to be a very woolly liberal on social policy, until I worked in safeguarding, and saw the behaviour of some adults (despite what I thought, I'd clearly led a very sheltered life until then). I also did some work with Halfon when he was Skills Minister, and was impressed by him.
Teachers hated the switch from being assessed on "value add" rather than "level of attainment".
As a parent , our primary school had rested on it's fat laurels for too long and got a mighty shock when OFSTED came a calling post Gove - the Head Teacher stood down and we got a far better replacement.
Most teachers I have ever worked with were motivated by this fact. A decent HT will identify anyone timeserving and move them on. One of the things Gove got right was fast tracking capability procedures.
Everything is about focusing on those kids from poorer backgrounds. Teachers are accountable for kids that dont do as good as their data says they should.0 -
So you believe schools are there primarily for the benefit of parents ?TGOHF said:
Teachers are still under the misapprehension that schools are for their benefit not parents.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Speaking as a teacher, it appeared to me that Gove was allowed to be a complete loose cannon by Cameron, who didn't care about state education.
Many of the issues we face now are as a result of his short term thinking and policymaking via headlines in the Telegraph. Very little was thought through, and we now have a recruitment disaster due to the fracturing and over complication of Initial Teacher Training routes by Gove.
The obsession with constant qualification reform is a feature of all Education Ministers, but his attempt at a concurrent reform of GCSE and A Level made a lot of pointless work for people.
On another note, the notion that teachers are all a load of raging marxists may be a favourite of the Daily Mail, but is not borne out by my experience in reality. I've known as many Tory teachers as I have Labour voters. I used to be a very woolly liberal on social policy, until I worked in safeguarding, and saw the behaviour of some adults (despite what I thought, I'd clearly led a very sheltered life until then). I also did some work with Halfon when he was Skills Minister, and was impressed by him.
Teachers hated the switch from being assessed on "value add" rather than "level of attainment".
As a parent , our primary school had rested on it's fat laurels for too long and got a mighty shock when OFSTED came a calling post Gove - the Head Teacher stood down and we got a far better replacement.
I was under the misapprehension that they were something to do with education.0 -
Yes - it's appalling to have a graduate starting salary of £22/23k, annual pay progression, and 14 weeks of non-contact time a year. Boo hoo that there is some paper work and assessment of their value add to the children.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Gove's role in making teaching such an unrewarding profession that nobody wants to do it has led to a recruitment crisis so bad that some of my local schools are now closing on Friday afternoons. This is very much less welcome in homes around this part of the country.RobinWiggs said:I'd have said anyone who upsets the NUT and the teaching profession in general is probably doing a good job at Education.
Gove's return to a focus on standards, exams and "traditional" core subjects was welcome in many homes across the country.
That a tory wasn't welcomed by the payroll vote during a period of austerity, whilst trying to reform the system is hardly the headline of the century.
It's a wonder anyone wants it as a vocation isn't it.0 -
Sheriff, but yes...RobD said:
That poor judge.CarlottaVance said:
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110182854904950785RobD said:
Some of his best friends are gay?CarlottaVance said:Ever the charmer....
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110182267186569218
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110184990359371776
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110185529058971648
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/11101860656866140170 -
What time is today's vote expected, anyone know?0
-
0
-
Parents require a service - their children to be educated.Nigelb said:
So you believe schools are there primarily for the benefit of parents ?TGOHF said:
Teachers are still under the misapprehension that schools are for their benefit not parents.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Speaking as a teacher, it appeared to me that Gove was allowed to be a complete loose cannon by Cameron, who didn't care about state education.
Many of the issues we face now are as a result of his short term thinking and policymaking via headlines in the Telegraph. Very little was thought through, and we now have a recruitment disaster due to the fracturing and over complication of Initial Teacher Training routes by Gove.
The obsession with constant qualification reform is a feature of all Education Ministers, but his attempt at a concurrent reform of GCSE and A Level made a lot of pointless work for people.
On another note, the notion that teachers are all a load of raging marxists may be a favourite of the Daily Mail, but is not borne out by my experience in reality. I've known as many Tory teachers as I have Labour voters. I used to be a very woolly liberal on social policy, until I worked in safeguarding, and saw the behaviour of some adults (despite what I thought, I'd clearly led a very sheltered life until then). I also did some work with Halfon when he was Skills Minister, and was impressed by him.
Teachers hated the switch from being assessed on "value add" rather than "level of attainment".
As a parent , our primary school had rested on it's fat laurels for too long and got a mighty shock when OFSTED came a calling post Gove - the Head Teacher stood down and we got a far better replacement.
I was under the misapprehension that they were something to do with education.
Parents pay for the service via taxation.
0 -
Schools are primarily for the benefit of children surely. Although parents do receive an enormous incidental benefit - a place to ship the kids off to during the day allowing things like jobs to be considered for themselves.TGOHF said:Teachers are still under the misapprehension that schools are for their benefit not parents.
Teachers hated the switch from being assessed on "value add" rather than "level of attainment".
As a parent , our primary school had rested on it's fat laurels for too long and got a mighty shock when OFSTED came a calling post Gove - the Head Teacher stood down and we got a far better replacement.0 -
The Reverend of Somerset is suing Dugdale for libel iirc ?CarlottaVance said:
Sheriff, but yes...RobD said:
That poor judge.CarlottaVance said:
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110182854904950785RobD said:
Some of his best friends are gay?CarlottaVance said:Ever the charmer....
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110182267186569218
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110184990359371776
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110185529058971648
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/11101860656866140170 -
I've no objection to some of the changes, but ITT reform and the decimation of careers education were stupid. Cancelling Building Schools For The Future saved money, but just kicked the can down the road for someone else to deal with.notme2 said:
The obsession on data seems extraordinary. More and more seems expected of teachers. Some of the changes have been good. The GCSE now does a much better job of dividing the very very top from the top and are much more stringent.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Schools are for the benefit of the children.TGOHF said:
Teachers are still under the misapprehension that schools are for their benefit not parents.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Speaking as a teacher, it appeared to me that Gove was allowed to be a complete loose cannon by Cameron, who didn't care about state education.
Many of the issues we face now are as a result of his short term thinking and policymaking via headlines in the Telegraph. Very little was thought through, and we now have a recruitment disaster due to the fracturing and over complication of Initial Teacher Training routes by Gove.
The obsession with constant qualification reform is a feature of all Education Ministers, but his attempt at a concurrent reform of GCSE and A Level made a lot of pointless work for people.
On another note, the notion that teachers are all a load of raging marxists may be a favourite of the Daily Mail, but is not borne out by my experience in reality. I've known as many Tory teachers as I have Labour voters. I used to be a very woolly liberal on social policy, until I worked in safeguarding, and saw the behaviour of some adults (despite what I thought, I'd clearly led a very sheltered life until then). I also did some work with Halfon when he was Skills Minister, and was impressed by him.
Teachers hated the switch from being assessed on "value add" rather than "level of attainment".
As a parent , our primary school had rested on it's fat laurels for too long and got a mighty shock when OFSTED came a calling post Gove - the Head Teacher stood down and we got a far better replacement.
Most teachers I have ever worked with were motivated by this fact. A decent HT will identify anyone timeserving and move them on. One of the things Gove got right was fast tracking capability procedures.
He never got a grip of OFSTED, it is still a massive bureaucratic nightmare, which eats money, and tells you that schools with a largely middle class intake do well and schools in deprived areas do less well.
Data is an ongoing issue - a uniform approach was never decided upon, and OFSTED have a constantly evolving framework (coupled with some inspection teams which don't follow their own guidance).0 -
"... schools are for their benefit not parents."TGOHF said:
Teachers are still under the misapprehension that schools are for their benefit not parents.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Speaking as a teacher, it appeared to me that Gove was allowed to be a complete loose cannon by Cameron, who didn't care about state education.
Many of the issues we face now are as a result of his short term thinking and policymaking via headlines in the Telegraph. Very little was thought through, and we now have a recruitment disaster due to the fracturing and over complication of Initial Teacher Training routes by Gove.
The obsession with constant qualification reform is a feature of all Education Ministers, but his attempt at a concurrent reform of GCSE and A Level made a lot of pointless work for people.
On another note, the notion that teachers are all a load of raging marxists may be a favourite of the Daily Mail, but is not borne out by my experience in reality. I've known as many Tory teachers as I have Labour voters. I used to be a very woolly liberal on social policy, until I worked in safeguarding, and saw the behaviour of some adults (despite what I thought, I'd clearly led a very sheltered life until then). I also did some work with Halfon when he was Skills Minister, and was impressed by him.
Teachers hated the switch from being assessed on "value add" rather than "level of attainment".
As a parent , our primary school had rested on it's fat laurels for too long and got a mighty shock when OFSTED came a calling post Gove - the Head Teacher stood down and we got a far better replacement.
Er, aren't schools for the benefit of children, not parents or teachers?
I've generally been very impressed by the teachers I have met at my children's schools. They work hard for not a huge amount of money and seem genuinely committed to helping kids do well. I am probably more of a left wing extremist than any of them.0 -
You've clearly never tried teaching.RobinWiggs said:
Yes - it's appalling to have a graduate starting salary of £22/23k, annual pay progression, and 14 weeks of non-contact time a year. Boo hoo that there is some paper work and assessment of their value add to the children.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Gove's role in making teaching such an unrewarding profession that nobody wants to do it has led to a recruitment crisis so bad that some of my local schools are now closing on Friday afternoons. This is very much less welcome in homes around this part of the country.RobinWiggs said:I'd have said anyone who upsets the NUT and the teaching profession in general is probably doing a good job at Education.
Gove's return to a focus on standards, exams and "traditional" core subjects was welcome in many homes across the country.
That a tory wasn't welcomed by the payroll vote during a period of austerity, whilst trying to reform the system is hardly the headline of the century.
It's a wonder anyone wants it as a vocation isn't it.0 -
No as 5 year olds aren't old enough to define their requirements and they certainly haven't paid for the service through taxation.OnlyLivingBoy said:
"... schools are for their benefit not parents."TGOHF said:
Teachers are still under the misapprehension that schools are for their benefit not parents.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Speaking as a teacher, it appeared to me that Gove was allowed to be a complete loose cannon by Cameron, who didn't care about state education.
Many of the issues we face now are as a result of his short term thinking and policymaking via headlines in the Telegraph. Very little was thought through, and we now have a recruitment disaster due to the fracturing and over complication of Initial Teacher Training routes by Gove.
The obsession with constant qualification reform is a feature of all Education Ministers, but his attempt at a concurrent reform of GCSE and A Level made a lot of pointless work for people.
On another note, the notion that teachers are all a load of raging marxists may be a favourite of the Daily Mail, but is not borne out by my experience in reality. I've known as many Tory teachers as I have Labour voters. I used to be a very woolly liberal on social policy, until I worked in safeguarding, and saw the behaviour of some adults (despite what I thought, I'd clearly led a very sheltered life until then). I also did some work with Halfon when he was Skills Minister, and was impressed by him.
Teachers hated the switch from being assessed on "value add" rather than "level of attainment".
As a parent , our primary school had rested on it's fat laurels for too long and got a mighty shock when OFSTED came a calling post Gove - the Head Teacher stood down and we got a far better replacement.
Er, aren't schools for the benefit of children, not parents or teachers?0 -
Amendments from 10pm onwardsBenpointer said:What time is today's vote expected, anyone know?
0 -
DUP say No0
-
default - time to ask the question in the negative on the deal and thus secure a positive response....ExiledInScotland said:DUP say No
0 -
The civil service responds to strong leadership and energy from ministers. You need that to get meaningful reform.TGOHF said:
What is it about this current Brexit impasse that suggests he wasn't correct to take a blade to the civil service ? The DoE was the first to feel the pain of the reality of the 21st century.Casino_Royale said:Gove is very bright but he is only good in small doses. He has to be shuffled every couple of years because it just takes it too far and doesn’t know when to stop.
I expect the trouble was that Cummings insulted anyone slower or more uncertain than him, Gove was polite but disingenuous at times and neither good at listening to feedback, judging it to be just resistance to their reforms (sometimes but not always).0 -
5,500,3150
-
Petition just gone through 5.5m.
Mind you, last time I was doing this was with the tory anti-Corbyn video of GE 2017, and look how that turned out.0 -
I completely agree with this but despite that I thought that Michael Wilshaw on the Today program this morning was embarrassing. He repeatedly contradicted himself, he seemed to get led by the nose by the interviewer and, for someone who is supposed to know about education, he was barely coherent let alone persuasive. It was a really deeply unimpressive performance.FrancisUrquhart said:A former chief inspector of schools said LGBT rights lessons should be reinstated, despite parents' protests.
The No Outsiders programme at five Birmingham schools stopped when parents said it was age-inappropriate and incompatible with Islam.
Sir Michael Wilshaw, the former head of Ofsted, said people had to accept they were "living in this country with the values that this country holds".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-476926170 -
Are you wearing a revolving bow tie?RobinWiggs said:Yes - it's appalling to have a graduate starting salary of £22/23k, annual pay progression, and 14 weeks of non-contact time a year. Boo hoo that there is some paper work and assessment of their value add to the children.
It's a wonder anyone wants it as a vocation isn't it.0 -
I'm sure that would have been different if he'd just given them a 100% pay rise and no assessments.
I'm not sure what the rest of the taxpaying public would have thought about that though.
What happened during Ed Balls' reign?0 -
The (wo)man from the DUP, (s)he says no. The Oranges are not ready yet.ExiledInScotland said:DUP say No
0 -
CheersIanB2 said:
Amendments from 10pm onwardsBenpointer said:What time is today's vote expected, anyone know?
0 -
I always thought 'the Blob' was a pretty fair description.0
-
On topic, I wonder if OGH is making the same error (Though I note the final section is more complmentary toward Gove than the graphic) that he has made wrt Biden's chances in the Democrat race. I think Gove is rightly one of the frontrunners (Though too short at the recent 7-2 I laid on Betfair), both he and Biden are in a different place to where they were a few years ago.
I'll confess that I'm not on Hunt at the longest odds I could be either as I mentally dismissed him with the fact he was a Tory health Sec. He too has a real chance now.0 -
If you read Cumming's blog posts about education, then yes - absolutelyAwb683 said:I always thought 'the Blob' was a pretty fair description.
0 -
Jury retired this morning to consider its verdict in trial of Duckenfield and others re Hillsborough.
Seems surprising that there has been very little media coverage of the trial.0 -
He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.0
-
You are really just making yourself look stupid now.TGOHF said:
Parents require a service - their children to be educated.Nigelb said:
So you believe schools are there primarily for the benefit of parents ?TGOHF said:
Teachers are still under the misapprehension that schools are for their benefit not parents.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Speaking as a teacher, it appeared to me that Gove was allowed to be a complete loose cannon by Cameron, who didn't care about state education.
Many of the issues we face now are as a result of his short term thinking and policymaking via headlines in the Telegraph. Very little was thought through, and we now have a recruitment disaster due to the fracturing and over complication of Initial Teacher Training routes by Gove.
The obsession with constant qualification reform is a feature of all Education Ministers, but his attempt at a concurrent reform of GCSE and A Level made a lot of pointless work for people.
On another note, the notion that teachers are all a load of raging marxists may be a favourite of the Daily Mail, but is not borne out by my experience in reality. I've known as many Tory teachers as I have Labour voters. I used to be a very woolly liberal on social policy, until I worked in safeguarding, and saw the behaviour of some adults (despite what I thought, I'd clearly led a very sheltered life until then). I also did some work with Halfon when he was Skills Minister, and was impressed by him.
Teachers hated the switch from being assessed on "value add" rather than "level of attainment".
As a parent , our primary school had rested on it's fat laurels for too long and got a mighty shock when OFSTED came a calling post Gove - the Head Teacher stood down and we got a far better replacement.
I was under the misapprehension that they were something to do with education.
Parents pay for the service via taxation.
I've no children but my taxes go towards education as much as yours. I don't mind that though, because I want to live in a society of reasonably well-educated people not one full of ignorant stooges.
If your posts are any reflection, thank heavens your children are being educated, not just relying on your 'wisdom'.
0 -
People have heard of Jean-Claude Juncker, and his current job will be finished soon.AlastairMeeks said:He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.
0 -
I hear that there is copious and solid research which indicates that once you adjust for the socio-economic advantage or disadvantage of their pupil intake there is little tangible difference between the exam performance of most schools, whether state or private.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:He never got a grip of OFSTED, it is still a massive bureaucratic nightmare, which eats money, and tells you that schools with a largely middle class intake do well and schools in deprived areas do less well.
0 -
I have two grandchildren as well as a granddaughter-in-law who are, or have been teachers. I have no doubt from their workload that the 14 weeks of non-contact time is balanced to a considerable degree by the extra time spent during 'normal' working weeks.FeersumEnjineeya said:
You've clearly never tried teaching.RobinWiggs said:
Yes - it's appalling to have a graduate starting salary of £22/23k, annual pay progression, and 14 weeks of non-contact time a year. Boo hoo that there is some paper work and assessment of their value add to the children.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Gove's role in making teaching such an unrewarding profession that nobody wants to do it has led to a recruitment crisis so bad that some of my local schools are now closing on Friday afternoons. This is very much less welcome in homes around this part of the country.RobinWiggs said:I'd have said anyone who upsets the NUT and the teaching profession in general is probably doing a good job at Education.
Gove's return to a focus on standards, exams and "traditional" core subjects was welcome in many homes across the country.
That a tory wasn't welcomed by the payroll vote during a period of austerity, whilst trying to reform the system is hardly the headline of the century.
It's a wonder anyone wants it as a vocation isn't it.0 -
Of course we all require every child to have the best education possible. I don't want to live in a country full of unproductive, resentful morons susceptible to any huckster politician spinning them a line about how it's all the fault of forriners. Or at least, not any more than I am already.TGOHF said:0 -
On topic there was some interesting discussion of this at the weekend in relation to the London march which seemed to be largely comprised of middle class professionals who once would have been Tories and now aren't. Some of these statistics may well be down to the same tendency manifesting itself in the teaching profession.
What I think is clear is that 9 years of very tight public spending, if not actual austerity in most cases, with cuts in real wages and benefits for those in the public sector have left a long tail legacy of dislike/hatred for the Tories which they are going to find genuinely difficult to overcome. My own guess is that the extent of that damage has been hidden by the complete ineptitude of Corbyn and that Labour under a credible, electable leader may well be set for a Blair style annihilation of the Conservatives who have never managed to get a solid majority despite their success with the economy as a whole.
If this happens people will inevitably blame Brexit but I think the causes are much deeper. I hope sending Corbyn a get well soon card is on May's to do list. He is their only hope.0 -
FPT
From the judge's summing up in Jeffrey Archer's libel claim (the claim itself, *not* the later prosecution):
"Remember Mary Archer in the witness-box. Your vision of her probably will never disappear. Has she elegance? Has she fragrance? Would she have, without the strain of this trial, radiance? How would she appeal? Has she had a happy married life? Has she been able to enjoy, rather than endure, her husband Jeffrey?"
Don't forget the references to "cold, joyless, rubber-insulated intercourse."
As with the summing up in the Thorpe case, it's often hard to draw the line between satire and the real thing,0 -
I think and hope Dugdale wins the case. Her homophobia comment wrt Stuart Dickson seems to my mind to be an honestly held opinion. Reserve the libel process for the likes of Lipstadt Vs Irving please.0
-
Liddo was layable in size at 6 yesterday.AlastairMeeks said:He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.
I hope you crystallized plenty.0 -
https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1110189774558687238
Not sure I concur. It assumes the ERG think the Deal is just about acceptable provided May is gone. But they know she'll be gone by he end of the year which still leaves pleanty of time for their chosen candidate to sort out the actual long-term deal with the EU.
Am I missing something?0 -
I had some very nice choices to make yesterday.kinabalu said:
Liddo was layable in size at 6 yesterday.AlastairMeeks said:He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.
I hope you crystallized plenty.0 -
Yes - the BBC Reporter Philip Sim has a full thread including background.Pulpstar said:
The Reverend of Somerset is suing Dugdale for libel iirc ?CarlottaVance said:
Sheriff, but yes...RobD said:
That poor judge.CarlottaVance said:
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110182854904950785RobD said:
Some of his best friends are gay?CarlottaVance said:Ever the charmer....
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110182267186569218
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110184990359371776
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110185529058971648
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/11101860656866140170 -
I've taken him down to a similar red to Rudd in that book, who is still my biggest loser.kinabalu said:
Liddo was layable in size at 6 yesterday.AlastairMeeks said:He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.
I hope you crystallized plenty.
True green still due to Fred Done's generous terms at Totesport .0 -
It's evolving as Hunt v Gove, I sense. With Johnson just still possible.Pulpstar said:On topic, I wonder if OGH is making the same error (Though I note the final section is more complmentary toward Gove than the graphic) that he has made wrt Biden's chances in the Democrat race. I think Gove is rightly one of the frontrunners (Though too short at the recent 7-2 I laid on Betfair), both he and Biden are in a different place to where they were a few years ago.
I'll confess that I'm not on Hunt at the longest odds I could be either as I mentally dismissed him with the fact he was a Tory health Sec. He too has a real chance now.0 -
I still think it depends on whether they're looking for a disposable one to sign off on the Commons version of Brexit because TMay won't... or are looking for the leader who'll take them into an election more than six months off. I doubt Gove sees himself as the former.AlastairMeeks said:He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.
I guess it depends to some extent whether TMay manages her own demise or is hustled out of the back door/jeered out of the Commons on April 8th.
If it's the latter, I could see Lidington being put forward to enact something in a hurry which 75 per cent of the Tories and 40 per cent of the others could live with, on the promise he'd go for a GE soon after.
If TMay announces a date and survives through the exit, the Tories can have a proper leadership contest first.0 -
For me Lidington is May without the charisma and personal charm. As a stop gap to get us out of this mess just maybe but surely not as anything else.AlastairMeeks said:He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.
0 -
I have to admit I know a fair few friends who went on the March but not a single one would ever have dreamed of voting Tory even without Brexit. That is not to say I don't know a couple of Tory Remainers but both of them would rather cut off their arm than vote for Corbyn.DavidL said:On topic there was some interesting discussion of this at the weekend in relation to the London march which seemed to be largely comprised of middle class professionals who once would have been Tories and now aren't. Some of these statistics may well be down to the same tendency manifesting itself in the teaching profession.
What I think is clear is that 9 years of very tight public spending, if not actual austerity in most cases, with cuts in real wages and benefits for those in the public sector have left a long tail legacy of dislike/hatred for the Tories which they are going to find genuinely difficult to overcome. My own guess is that the extent of that damage has been hidden by the complete ineptitude of Corbyn and that Labour under a credible, electable leader may well be set for a Blair style annihilation of the Conservatives who have never managed to get a solid majority despite their success with the economy as a whole.
If this happens people will inevitably blame Brexit but I think the causes are much deeper. I hope sending Corbyn a get well soon card is on May's to do list. He is their only hope.0 -
Suggesting Jean-Claude Juncker should be PM of the UK sounds like a step too far.williamglenn said:
People have heard of Jean-Claude Juncker, and his current job will be finished soon.AlastairMeeks said:He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.
Even for you.0 -
It's almost as if the times were set fair for a Eurosceptic with populist policies and charisma to sweep the electoral board.AndyJS said:"Far-right Italian deputy Matteo Salvini takes Basilicata in south
Deputy PM renews pledge to change Europe as 24 years of leftwing rule ends in region"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/25/far-right-italian-deputy-matteo-salvini-takes-basilicata-in-south
Pity May has only the least important part - the Euroscepticism.0 -
It is as it was in the 1980's and 1990's.DavidL said:On topic there was some interesting discussion of this at the weekend in relation to the London march which seemed to be largely comprised of middle class professionals who once would have been Tories and now aren't. Some of these statistics may well be down to the same tendency manifesting itself in the teaching profession.
What I think is clear is that 9 years of very tight public spending, if not actual austerity in most cases, with cuts in real wages and benefits for those in the public sector have left a long tail legacy of dislike/hatred for the Tories which they are going to find genuinely difficult to overcome. My own guess is that the extent of that damage has been hidden by the complete ineptitude of Corbyn and that Labour under a credible, electable leader may well be set for a Blair style annihilation of the Conservatives who have never managed to get a solid majority despite their success with the economy as a whole.
If this happens people will inevitably blame Brexit but I think the causes are much deeper. I hope sending Corbyn a get well soon card is on May's to do list. He is their only hope.0 -
I always chicken out at green at zero.Pulpstar said:
I've taken him down to a similar red to Rudd in that book, who is still my biggest loserkinabalu said:
Liddo was layable in size at 6 yesterday.AlastairMeeks said:He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.
I hope you crystallized plenty.
Just in case..0 -
This exactly reflects my friend and work colleague groupRichard_Tyndall said:
I have to admit I know a fair few friends who went on the March but not a single one would ever have dreamed of voting Tory even without Brexit. That is not to say I don't know a couple of Tory Remainers but both of them would rather cut off their arm than vote for Corbyn.DavidL said:On topic there was some interesting discussion of this at the weekend in relation to the London march which seemed to be largely comprised of middle class professionals who once would have been Tories and now aren't. Some of these statistics may well be down to the same tendency manifesting itself in the teaching profession.
What I think is clear is that 9 years of very tight public spending, if not actual austerity in most cases, with cuts in real wages and benefits for those in the public sector have left a long tail legacy of dislike/hatred for the Tories which they are going to find genuinely difficult to overcome. My own guess is that the extent of that damage has been hidden by the complete ineptitude of Corbyn and that Labour under a credible, electable leader may well be set for a Blair style annihilation of the Conservatives who have never managed to get a solid majority despite their success with the economy as a whole.
If this happens people will inevitably blame Brexit but I think the causes are much deeper. I hope sending Corbyn a get well soon card is on May's to do list. He is their only hope.0 -
In 2010 a plurality of teachers supported the blue team. They were on Gove's side. His backers should reflect on whether his alienation of the teachers make it more or less plausible that Gove could, as Prime Minister, deal successfully with the EU and the EU27.
Whether his reforms were good or bad is almost beside the point.0 -
It was always the Labour plan from 2009 onwards, to salt the earth, ramp up what would have been temporary spending as part of the cycle to a structural increase in public spending knowing that it would be an utter mess rolling back. But they assumed that they would be back in again in 2015 at the latest...DavidL said:On topic there was some interesting discussion of this at the weekend in relation to the London march which seemed to be largely comprised of middle class professionals who once would have been Tories and now aren't. Some of these statistics may well be down to the same tendency manifesting itself in the teaching profession.
What I think is clear is that 9 years of very tight public spending, if not actual austerity in most cases, with cuts in real wages and benefits for those in the public sector have left a long tail legacy of dislike/hatred for the Tories which they are going to find genuinely difficult to overcome. My own guess is that the extent of that damage has been hidden by the complete ineptitude of Corbyn and that Labour under a credible, electable leader may well be set for a Blair style annihilation of the Conservatives who have never managed to get a solid majority despite their success with the economy as a whole.
If this happens people will inevitably blame Brexit but I think the causes are much deeper. I hope sending Corbyn a get well soon card is on May's to do list. He is their only hope.0 -
Or Francois.kinabalu said:
It's evolving as Hunt v Gove, I sense. With Johnson just still possible.Pulpstar said:On topic, I wonder if OGH is making the same error (Though I note the final section is more complmentary toward Gove than the graphic) that he has made wrt Biden's chances in the Democrat race. I think Gove is rightly one of the frontrunners (Though too short at the recent 7-2 I laid on Betfair), both he and Biden are in a different place to where they were a few years ago.
I'll confess that I'm not on Hunt at the longest odds I could be either as I mentally dismissed him with the fact he was a Tory health Sec. He too has a real chance now.0 -
What is Gove?
Davis don't hurt me
Don't hurt me
No more0 -
DavidL said:
On topic there was some interesting discussion of this at the weekend in relation to the London march which seemed to be largely comprised of middle class professionals who once would have been Tories and now aren't. Some of these statistics may well be down to the same tendency manifesting itself in the teaching profession.
What I think is clear is that 9 years of very tight public spending, if not actual austerity in most cases, with cuts in real wages and benefits for those in the public sector have left a long tail legacy of dislike/hatred for the Tories which they are going to find genuinely difficult to overcome. My own guess is that the extent of that damage has been hidden by the complete ineptitude of Corbyn and that Labour under a credible, electable leader may well be set for a Blair style annihilation of the Conservatives who have never managed to get a solid majority despite their success with the economy as a whole.
If this happens people will inevitably blame Brexit but I think the causes are much deeper. I hope sending Corbyn a get well soon card is on May's to do list. He is their only hope.
Yes, I’m expecting a drubbing in the not so distant future.DavidL said:On topic there was some interesting discussion of this at the weekend in relation to the London march which seemed to be largely comprised of middle class professionals who once would have been Tories and now aren't. Some of these statistics may well be down to the same tendency manifesting itself in the teaching profession.
What I think is clear is that 9 years of very tight public spending, if not actual austerity in most cases, with cuts in real wages and benefits for those in the public sector have left a long tail legacy of dislike/hatred for the Tories which they are going to find genuinely difficult to overcome. My own guess is that the extent of that damage has been hidden by the complete ineptitude of Corbyn and that Labour under a credible, electable leader may well be set for a Blair style annihilation of the Conservatives who have never managed to get a solid majority despite their success with the economy as a whole.
If this happens people will inevitably blame Brexit but I think the causes are much deeper. I hope sending Corbyn a get well soon card is on May's to do list. He is their only hope.
The Conservatives have never looked totally secure in the last ten years, and i can feel the country moving Left in my gut, which the fundamentals in the underlying data suggest as well.0 -
This attitude really annoys me (Robin's not yours). There is a huge amount wrong with our education system and I do think it is now a very poor shadow of what it was in the past but that has bugger all to do with how much teacher's work.FeersumEnjineeya said:
You've clearly never tried teaching.RobinWiggs said:
Yes - it's appalling to have a graduate starting salary of £22/23k, annual pay progression, and 14 weeks of non-contact time a year. Boo hoo that there is some paper work and assessment of their value add to the children.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Gove's role in making teaching such an unrewarding profession that nobody wants to do it has led to a recruitment crisis so bad that some of my local schools are now closing on Friday afternoons. This is very much less welcome in homes around this part of the country.RobinWiggs said:I'd have said anyone who upsets the NUT and the teaching profession in general is probably doing a good job at Education.
Gove's return to a focus on standards, exams and "traditional" core subjects was welcome in many homes across the country.
That a tory wasn't welcomed by the payroll vote during a period of austerity, whilst trying to reform the system is hardly the headline of the century.
It's a wonder anyone wants it as a vocation isn't it.
It is certainly not a career I would choose for an easy life nor great riches. Also of course I don't have the temperament. I would probably have throttled half a dozen of the little darlings before the first week was out0 -
Lidington is a uniter and May is a divider. Whatever other qualities, we need something much more like him than her right now.DavidL said:
For me Lidington is May without the charisma and personal charm. As a stop gap to get us out of this mess just maybe but surely not as anything else.AlastairMeeks said:He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.
0 -
Do you often have nightmares? Bad ones?Sean_F said:
Or Francois.kinabalu said:
It's evolving as Hunt v Gove, I sense. With Johnson just still possible.Pulpstar said:On topic, I wonder if OGH is making the same error (Though I note the final section is more complmentary toward Gove than the graphic) that he has made wrt Biden's chances in the Democrat race. I think Gove is rightly one of the frontrunners (Though too short at the recent 7-2 I laid on Betfair), both he and Biden are in a different place to where they were a few years ago.
I'll confess that I'm not on Hunt at the longest odds I could be either as I mentally dismissed him with the fact he was a Tory health Sec. He too has a real chance now.0 -
I think that they have alienated a core constituency. They are really vulnerable right now.Sean_F said:
It is as it was in the 1980's and 1990's.DavidL said:On topic there was some interesting discussion of this at the weekend in relation to the London march which seemed to be largely comprised of middle class professionals who once would have been Tories and now aren't. Some of these statistics may well be down to the same tendency manifesting itself in the teaching profession.
What I think is clear is that 9 years of very tight public spending, if not actual austerity in most cases, with cuts in real wages and benefits for those in the public sector have left a long tail legacy of dislike/hatred for the Tories which they are going to find genuinely difficult to overcome. My own guess is that the extent of that damage has been hidden by the complete ineptitude of Corbyn and that Labour under a credible, electable leader may well be set for a Blair style annihilation of the Conservatives who have never managed to get a solid majority despite their success with the economy as a whole.
If this happens people will inevitably blame Brexit but I think the causes are much deeper. I hope sending Corbyn a get well soon card is on May's to do list. He is their only hope.0 -
Who was the last foreign-born Prime Minister? Wasn't one of the early 20th Century PMs born in Canada? New Zealand-born Bryan Gould was an unsuccessful contender for the Labour leadership 40-ish years ago.Casino_Royale said:
Suggesting Jean-Claude Juncker should be PM of the UK sounds like a step too far.williamglenn said:
People have heard of Jean-Claude Juncker, and his current job will be finished soon.AlastairMeeks said:He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.
Even for you.0 -
Regarding Saturday's march, which was very impressive, it must be admitted: I can't help feeling that if the Labour politicians and activists who played such a big role in organising it had put half as much effort into campaigning for Remain in 2016, we wouldn't have been in this mess.0
-
Then they shouldn't have elected Corbyn. Twice.notme2 said:
It was always the Labour plan from 2009 onwards, to salt the earth, ramp up what would have been temporary spending as part of the cycle to a structural increase in public spending knowing that i would be an utter mess rolling back. But they assumed that they would be back in again in 2015 at the latest...DavidL said:On topic there was some interesting discussion of this at the weekend in relation to the London march which seemed to be largely comprised of middle class professionals who once would have been Tories and now aren't. Some of these statistics may well be down to the same tendency manifesting itself in the teaching profession.
What I think is clear is that 9 years of very tight public spending, if not actual austerity in most cases, with cuts in real wages and benefits for those in the public sector have left a long tail legacy of dislike/hatred for the Tories which they are going to find genuinely difficult to overcome. My own guess is that the extent of that damage has been hidden by the complete ineptitude of Corbyn and that Labour under a credible, electable leader may well be set for a Blair style annihilation of the Conservatives who have never managed to get a solid majority despite their success with the economy as a whole.
If this happens people will inevitably blame Brexit but I think the causes are much deeper. I hope sending Corbyn a get well soon card is on May's to do list. He is their only hope.0 -
Jezza was unfortunately double booked again...Richard_Nabavi said:Regarding Saturday's march, which was very impressive, it must be admitted: I can't help feeling that if the Labour politicians and activists who played such a big role in organising it had put half as much effort into campaigning for Remain in 2016, we wouldn't have been in this mess.
0 -
Not just the Labour activists.Richard_Nabavi said:Regarding Saturday's march, which was very impressive, it must be admitted: I can't help feeling that if the Labour politicians and activists who played such a big role in organising it had put half as much effort into campaigning for Remain in 2016, we wouldn't have been in this mess.
0 -
Funny, that.FrancisUrquhart said:
Jezza was unfortunately double booked again...Richard_Nabavi said:Regarding Saturday's march, which was very impressive, it must be admitted: I can't help feeling that if the Labour politicians and activists who played such a big role in organising it had put half as much effort into campaigning for Remain in 2016, we wouldn't have been in this mess.
0 -
AlastairMeeks said:
I had some very nice choices to make yesterday.kinabalu said:
Liddo was layable in size at 6 yesterday.AlastairMeeks said:He is at least known. While David Lidington would be a fabulous payday for me, I do think the country is entitled to have a Prime Minister that it has actually heard of.
I hope you crystallized plenty.
How did you play it?0
