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Sean – many thanks for the reply.Sean_F said:
The Conservatives do well in rural, English-speaking constituencies._Anazina_ said:I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.
The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.
There was quite a lot of coal-mining in the South of the constituency, and it voted Labour from 1939-79. Then it went Conservative, before being won by the Liberals in 1985. and has been a Con/Lib Dem marginal seat ever since.0 -
The LDs will be favourites if there is a Brecon by election, they held it for 18 years but as a Leave seat the Tories would still have shot0
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Thousands will turn out for PB - don't let the cops hide it._Anazina_ said:
I hope you will keep a close eye on the cops trying to underplay the numbers Mike?MikeSmithson said:Tomorrow is the 15th anniversary of the foundation of PB and hundreds of thousands will be heading to London for what looks set to be an even bigger gathering than just before the Iraq invasion.
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As long as those 2 elements never commingle..Dura_Ace said:
I will probably just take the jail time for my next one. I went to boarding school and served on Ark Royal so I am well accustomed to terrible food and sleeping in close proximity to very enthusiastic wanking.TheScreamingEagles said:
They've changed the rules on speeding fines and points.anothernick said:
For one speeding offence? That seems steep.TheScreamingEagles said:
6 points and a £1,000 fine.Carolus_Rex said:
And what would Onasanya have got if she'd just accepted the speeding fine and the points?TheScreamingEagles said:
The lack of any sense of proportion is almost worse than the dishonesty in both cases.
The fine can now be 175% (yes one hundred and seventy five percent) of your weekly salary.
https://www.confused.com/on-the-road/driving-law/speeding-fine-calculator0 -
EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majorityScott_P said:0 -
And you are still entitled to vote in the UK unless you have been abroad for more than 15 years continuously.Gallowgate said:
You can currently be abroad and yet still be a British citizen.MattW said:IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.
60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.
Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/11090676896565698610 -
That doesn't narrow it down much. One is sometimes led to the view that most PB Leavers are firewalled against their pet project by being domiciled outside the UK.TOPPING said:fpt
Is/was the favourite of one erstwhile expat and one current expat PBLeaver.Dura_Ace said:
Wasn't Kwarteng an ex pb tory fave? They come and go so fast.TheScreamingEagles said:
A vociferous erstwhile poster made daily pronouncements on the need for diamond hard Brexit, from his safe house in Queensland.0 -
Looks like Adonis has been telling fibs for his own agenda again.
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsPR/status/1109067883655647233
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/11089753011141509120 -
Can OGH's maxim re. polls that the less you like the numbers in a poll the more likely you are to cast aspersions on the pollster & their methodology, now be applied to petitions?0
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As surely we know from the preponderance of expats on PB.Gallowgate said:
You can currently be abroad and yet still be a British citizen.MattW said:IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.
60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.
Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861
The petition map looks entirely credible in terms of the geographical spread of signatures. It would be difficult for bots to produce that.0 -
The Brecon Beacons are a lovely spot, by the way. By coincidence, I'm off down there for some hiking and beer drinking in a few weeks' time.0
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Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-141698300 -
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Presumably the green bits (PCY) align with Welsh-speaking areas?Harris_Tweed said:
That bit is nowadays... Labour around Cardiff/Swansea/Wrexham; then the empty bits are split between PC in the west and Tories in the east (plus Pembrokeshire.. aka "Little England Beyond Wales")_Anazina_ said:I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.
The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.
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Even more likely to be LD thenIanB2 said:
The Powys council area was close to the national result - so if recent polls are right it is now a Remain seat.HYUFD said:The LDs will be favourites if there is a Brecon by election, they held it for 18 years but as a Leave seat the Tories would still have shot
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Brexiteers should start agitating for a third referendum now, save some time0
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AV?WhisperingOracle said:0 -
Their statement is that counts are being updated every half hour, and it doesn't exactly take much resource to keep a text file up to date - they should have a half-decent cache setup.edmundintokyo said:
Are you just taking about the fact that the country breakdown doesn't add up to the total number? The data's probably out-of-date. They've slowed the updates of the count right down, presumably to reduce the load, and the query that does the groupings would probably be slower than the count one.MattW said:IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.
60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.
Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861
We'll see.0 -
The Liberals collapsed more quickly than in other seats. They lost the seat in 1924, after being returned unopposed in 1923, before regaining it in 1985.IanB2 said:
And something of Liberal tradition like other rural Welsh seats - the Liberals polled 20% in 1945 for exampleSean_F said:
The Conservatives do well in rural, English-speaking constituencies._Anazina_ said:I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.
The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.
There was quite a lot of coal-mining in the South of the constituency, and it voted Labour from 1939-79. Then it went Conservative, before being won by the Liberals in 1985. and has been a Con/Lib Dem marginal seat ever since.
They manged to hold on to other Welsh rural seats up till 1950.0 -
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-141698300 -
The Powell-Boles Common market 2.0 plan.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/lucypowellmp/pages/14/attachments/original/1546882338/Common_Market_2.0_(1).pdf?15468823380 -
As the consensus seems to be he will get less than 12 months then we're on to a recall petition and that looks tricky in such a large rural constituency. He may resign voluntarily of course but to date none of the various miscreants amongst the 3 largest parties in parliament have taken that course of action.0
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Farage started that on 23/06/16 didn't he?dyedwoolie said:Brexiteers should start agitating for a third referendum now, save some time
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Surely BRINO wins that process? Even more so if secret ballot.WhisperingOracle said:
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It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block0 -
The tricks those 'Remain' people go to to swell their numbersMikeSmithson said:Tomorrow is the 15th anniversary of the foundation of PB and hundreds of thousands will be heading to London for what looks set to be an even bigger gathering than just before the Iraq invasion.
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Do we know what the alleged sum involved was?JackW said:Chris Davies case referred to the Crown Court. Black cap sentencing ?!?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-476670800 -
As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.Carolus_Rex said:
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.AlastairMeeks said:Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
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Lol yes quiteTheuniondivvie said:
Farage started that on 22/06/16 didn't he?dyedwoolie said:Brexiteers should start agitating for a third referendum now, save some time
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Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-141698300 -
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At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.AlastairMeeks said:
As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.Carolus_Rex said:
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.AlastairMeeks said:Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
£700 is pathetic.0 -
Absolutely.Richard_Nabavi said:But that's why I was suggesting votes on the other real or imaginary options first.
We have a deal to leave that has taken 2 years to negotiate and we know for a fact can be implemented straightaway.
So should we (i) check out alternatives and if there aren't any do the deal?
Or should we (ii) reject the deal and THEN go flapping around looking for alternatives?
The correct answer is (i).0 -
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block0 -
They're firefighting to keep the site up. You're right that it doesn't take much resource but that presumes that the site was originally built to handle this level of load, and it wasn't. (A couple of friends of mine were giving them advice on database and webserver tuning last night.)MattW said:
Their statement is that counts are being updated every half hour, and it doesn't exactly take much resource to keep a text file up to date - they should have a half-decent cache setup.edmundintokyo said:
Are you just taking about the fact that the country breakdown doesn't add up to the total number? The data's probably out-of-date. They've slowed the updates of the count right down, presumably to reduce the load, and the query that does the groupings would probably be slower than the count one.MattW said:IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.
60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.
Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861
We'll see.0 -
700 quid.MattW said:
Do we know what the alleged sum involved was?JackW said:Chris Davies case referred to the Crown Court. Black cap sentencing ?!?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47667080
Trash your rep, ruin your career for 700 quid. Idiot.0 -
10 speed Tiagra is fine apart from the cassette which is garbage.El_Capitano said:
Frankly if that's the speed advantage that Dura Ace gives you, I need to upgrade from Tiagra.Dura_Ace said:
Those are rookie numbers. I've had 5k+ with costs and narrowly escaped porridge.anothernick said:
For one speeding offence? That seems steep.TheScreamingEagles said:
6 points and a £1,000 fine.Carolus_Rex said:
And what would Onasanya have got if she'd just accepted the speeding fine and the points?TheScreamingEagles said:
The lack of any sense of proportion is almost worse than the dishonesty in both cases.0 -
Yes, rather than having wysteria cleared off your chimney or splitting an uninvoiced cash in hand cleaner with your brother and acting all offended anyone might think it iffyAlastairMeeks said:
As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.Carolus_Rex said:
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.AlastairMeeks said:Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
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What should the benchmark be set at for the People's Vote tomorrow, bearing in mind that under 50 did Nigel Farage's Leave Means Leave march?0
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0.001% of the electorate or 75 people if at least one public building gets torchedAlastairMeeks said:What should the benchmark be set at for the People's Vote tomorrow, bearing in mind that under 50 did Nigel Farage's Leave Means Leave march?
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Checking, Labour vote was last above 20% in 2001 at 21%.Sean_F said:
The Conservatives do well in rural, English-speaking constituencies._Anazina_ said:I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.
The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.
There was quite a lot of coal-mining in the South of the constituency, and it voted Labour from 1939-79. Then it went Conservative, before being won by the Liberals in 1985. and has been a Con/Lib Dem marginal seat ever since.
Last time Tories 48.6%. Lab + Lib Dem 46% (LD - 29%). UKIP notalot. Looks interesting.
I wonder if the Tiggers will stand.0 -
As I said downthread, the problem with expenses fraud is proof. You decide to progress a case when there is a clear pattern of abuse. But the instances you can prove beyond any reasonable doubt are a handful of instances at the tip of an iceberg.Sean_F said:
At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.AlastairMeeks said:
As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.Carolus_Rex said:
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.AlastairMeeks said:Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
£700 is pathetic.0 -
The 11th April is the last chance to revoke but enabling legislation needs to be in place to do soStereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
I assume many will not be aware of that0 -
Yes, I think that was true for many of us, me included.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-141698300 -
You know, the BBC might be able to rescue Top Gear if they hired you, and put it on post watershed...Dura_Ace said:
10 speed Tiagra is fine apart from the cassette which is garbage.El_Capitano said:
Frankly if that's the speed advantage that Dura Ace gives you, I need to upgrade from Tiagra.Dura_Ace said:
Those are rookie numbers. I've had 5k+ with costs and narrowly escaped porridge.anothernick said:
For one speeding offence? That seems steep.TheScreamingEagles said:
6 points and a £1,000 fine.Carolus_Rex said:
And what would Onasanya have got if she'd just accepted the speeding fine and the points?TheScreamingEagles said:
The lack of any sense of proportion is almost worse than the dishonesty in both cases.
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Okay, so same question except replace "12th" with "11th"Big_G_NorthWales said:
The 11th April is the last chance to revokeStereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
I assume many will not be aware of that0 -
I doubt they have a decent anything set up if they had to reduce a count of 3 million rows to once every half hour. It looks like they were just never expecting a petition this popular.MattW said:
Their statement is that counts are being updated every half hour, and it doesn't exactly take much resource to keep a text file up to date - they should have a half-decent cache setup.edmundintokyo said:
Are you just taking about the fact that the country breakdown doesn't add up to the total number? The data's probably out-of-date. They've slowed the updates of the count right down, presumably to reduce the load, and the query that does the groupings would probably be slower than the count one.MattW said:IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.
60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.
Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861
We'll see.0 -
The MP fiddling £700, reminds me of that story of the city worker on mega bucks who fiddled his train ticket to save a couple of grand a year...what total idiots.0
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Do we have to pass the legislation by 12 April (or 13 April, depending on the frantic discussions taking place in Strasbourg right now)? Maybe we can declare our intent by the 12th and get the legislation through in the days following.Stereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block0 -
AlastairMeeks said:
What should the benchmark be set at for the People's Vote tomorrow, bearing in mind that under 50 did Nigel Farage's Leave Means Leave march?
If at least 51 people turn up tomorrow, it will be a victory for Remain, and the "will of the people" will have been heard. Fingers tightly crossed.0 -
If I have read the facts correctly he was entitled to make this claim but didn't have the supporting documentary evidence . So he falsified it. Stupid and it make him unfit to be an MP just as it would do for an accountant or any other professional who tried the same trick. But it is barely worthy of jail time in the scheme of things.Sean_F said:
At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.AlastairMeeks said:
As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.Carolus_Rex said:
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.AlastairMeeks said:Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
£700 is pathetic.0 -
Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EUStereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block0 -
Not sure to a few hours of the legal timing. 11th /12th subject to time confirmationStereotomy said:
Okay, so same question except replace "12th" with "11th"Big_G_NorthWales said:
The 11th April is the last chance to revokeStereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
I assume many will not be aware of that0 -
Many did. I saw Sir JM give a speech at a private function a few years ago, he was excellent. My type of Tory, but sadly a dying breed.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-141698300 -
But they can't say no to us revoking.dyedwoolie said:
Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EUStereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block0 -
My view of him has gone the other way. This is the man who was taken for a ride by the EU over opt outs, wrote a whining letter to the Commission complaining about it and was only saved from being shown up as completely toothless and inept by losing the election in 97._Anazina_ said:
Yes, I think that was true for many of us, me included.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830
His opinion of Brexit is one of those which should be consigned to the bin unopened.0 -
A great line up. Cable and Lammy excepted._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-141698300 -
Sean_F said:
At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.AlastairMeeks said:
As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.Carolus_Rex said:
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.AlastairMeeks said:Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".
£700 is pathetic.0 -
If we revoke we would contest the EU Parliament elections anywaydyedwoolie said:
Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EUStereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block0 -
I couldn't begin to imagine what system you are referring to Lucy!LucyJones said:
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Yes but without MV3 we fall out on April 11 no deal, if we revoke before then..,,, chaos if the legislation isn't passedStereotomy said:
But they can't say no to us revoking.dyedwoolie said:
Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EUStereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block0 -
That's partly down to context - in the 1990s big beasts such as Thatcher, Healey, Jenkins, Heath, Hurd etc etc were still around and against them Major and Heseltine do not stand out. But set them against May and Corbyn and today's frontbenchers on both sides and the comparison looks very different.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-141698300 -
So, it's a secret vote. That should ensure nothing gets a majority as the hardline Brexiteers will only vote for no deal and the remainers will have every incentive to vote only for revocation with complete deniability. Only an open vote will result in a compromise solution.Nigelb said:0 -
So more accurately, your opinion of him has never changed.Richard_Tyndall said:
My view of him has gone the other way. This is the man who was taken for a ride by the EU over opt outs, wrote a whining letter to the Commission complaining about it and was only saved from being shown up as completely toothless and inept by losing the election in 97._Anazina_ said:
Yes, I think that was true for many of us, me included.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830
His opinion of Brexit is one of those which should be consigned to the bin unopened.
0 -
So we know our Casino will put the number at 49? Despite the crowds filling our TV screen._Anazina_ said:AlastairMeeks said:What should the benchmark be set at for the People's Vote tomorrow, bearing in mind that under 50 did Nigel Farage's Leave Means Leave march?
If at least 51 people turn up tomorrow, it will be a victory for Remain, and the "will of the people" will have been heard. Fingers tightly crossed.0 -
No -IanB2 said:
Do we have to pass the legislation by 12 April (or 13 April, depending on the frantic discussions taking place in Strasbourg right now)? Maybe we can declare our intent by the 12th and get the legislation through in the days following.Stereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
The enabling legislation has to have received royal assent by the 12th April otherwise we cannot stand MEPs in the campaign starting on the 12th April. That is why the EU named this date0 -
Do we know when MPs will next get the chance to put a Benn-ish amendment?0
-
Amateurs, Felix Kjellberg is at 90.77 million now.edmundintokyo said:
I doubt they have a decent anything set up if they had to reduce a count of 3 million rows to once every half hour. It looks like they were just never expecting a petition this popular.MattW said:
Their statement is that counts are being updated every half hour, and it doesn't exactly take much resource to keep a text file up to date - they should have a half-decent cache setup.edmundintokyo said:
Are you just taking about the fact that the country breakdown doesn't add up to the total number? The data's probably out-of-date. They've slowed the updates of the count right down, presumably to reduce the load, and the query that does the groupings would probably be slower than the count one.MattW said:IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.
60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.
Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861
We'll see.0 -
I've disconcerted myself that I've done similar with Reagan and various Bushes. There's always something/someone worse round the corner, eh?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-141698300 -
Got to pass the enabling legislation in time thoughHYUFD said:
If we revoke we would contest the EU Parliament elections anywaydyedwoolie said:
Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EUStereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block0 -
You don't afford him significant credit over his role in clearing the way to the Good Friday Agreement?Richard_Tyndall said:
My view of him has gone the other way. This is the man who was taken for a ride by the EU over opt outs, wrote a whining letter to the Commission complaining about it and was only saved from being shown up as completely toothless and inept by losing the election in 97._Anazina_ said:
Yes, I think that was true for many of us, me included.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830
His opinion of Brexit is one of those which should be consigned to the bin unopened.0 -
Good one AlastairAlastairMeeks said:What should the benchmark be set at for the People's Vote tomorrow, bearing in mind that under 50 did Nigel Farage's Leave Means Leave march?
0 -
The Boles plan is to pass Norway+ as the political declaration but leave the Withdrawal Agreement unchanged so it can then be passed as a Withdrawal Agreement leading to BINOBig_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block0 -
Do you have a link to your source for this, by the way? I'm coming up short on a site wonkish enough to cover this all in detail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No -IanB2 said:
Do we have to pass the legislation by 12 April (or 13 April, depending on the frantic discussions taking place in Strasbourg right now)? Maybe we can declare our intent by the 12th and get the legislation through in the days following.Stereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
The enabling legislation has to have received royal assent by the 12th April otherwise we cannot stand MEPs in the campaign starting on the 12th April. That is why the EU named this date0 -
I dislike X.Theuniondivvie said:Can OGH's maxim re. polls that the less you like the numbers in a poll the more likely you are to cast aspersions on the pollster & their methodology, now be applied to petitions?
Therefore X must be incomplete (you can say this about anything), not comprehensive (ditto) contradicted by a subsample (always possible), contradicted by other authoritative sources (ditto) implausible (depends on your head), I refuse to believe it (some people actually do this), it's only down to some bad people (irrelevant), it's obviously fake (it may be fake but it isn't obvious), what kind of people would do this (not relevant), it's obviously Russian bots (might be, might not be).0 -
I love the way you point to 20 per cent of the vote over seventy years ago with pride.IanB2 said:
And something of Liberal tradition like other rural Welsh seats - the Liberals polled 20% in 1945 for exampleSean_F said:
The Conservatives do well in rural, English-speaking constituencies._Anazina_ said:I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.
The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.
There was quite a lot of coal-mining in the South of the constituency, and it voted Labour from 1939-79. Then it went Conservative, before being won by the Liberals in 1985. and has been a Con/Lib Dem marginal seat ever since.
There is something irredeemably poignant about the LibDems.
We have the Lab and Tory parties led by seriously flawed individuals, and even then the LibDems can't make progress.
What is the chance that the Labour and Tories will ever be led simultaneously by such incompetent individuals ever again. Under a fraction of a per cent.
Let's be brutally honest. Or just brutal.
If the LibDems can't make progress when Corby and Theresa are their opponents, and when they are the only party advocating what 48 per cent (possibly more now) of the population want in the major issue of the day, then they should pack it in.
0 -
HMG considering allowing mps to vote on seven alternative brexit options next week
Good news if true
If a referendum commands majority support it could get the enabling legislation through0 -
If we revoke the EU would extend to allow for that as they would then know Parliament has voted to cancel Brexitdyedwoolie said:
Got to pass the enabling legislation in time thoughHYUFD said:
If we revoke we would contest the EU Parliament elections anywaydyedwoolie said:
Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EUStereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block0 -
Bush snr is one of the most despicable men ever to hold office in the StatesTheuniondivvie said:
I've disconcerted myself that I've done similar with Reagan and various Bushes. There's always something/someone worse round the corner, eh?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-141698300 -
I don't think it will.Big_G_NorthWales said:HMG considering allowing mps to vote on seven alternative brexit options next week
Good news if true
If a referendum commands majority support it could get the enabling legislation through0 -
On the other side of the argument, Denis MacShane did much the same.Nigel_Foremain said:Sean_F said:
At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.AlastairMeeks said:
As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.Carolus_Rex said:
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.AlastairMeeks said:Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".
£700 is pathetic.0 -
Suspect that option and the second referendum Kyle amendment would probably have the most support, but both likely shy of a majority.HYUFD said:
The Boles plan is to pass Norway+ as the political declaration but leave the Withdrawal Agreement unchanged so it can then be passed as a Withdrawal Agreement leading to BINOBig_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block0 -
Depends whether Remain-leaning Tories discover their backbones. They may finally have realised that hitching their wagon to May isn't going so well.Pulpstar said:
I don't think it will.Big_G_NorthWales said:HMG considering allowing mps to vote on seven alternative brexit options next week
Good news if true
If a referendum commands majority support it could get the enabling legislation through0 -
Denis macshane expense fiddling was a different order of magnitude.Sean_F said:
On the other side of the argument, Denis MacShane did much the same.Nigel_Foremain said:Sean_F said:
At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.AlastairMeeks said:
As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.Carolus_Rex said:
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.AlastairMeeks said:Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".
£700 is pathetic.0 -
As an alternative to the present voting system that would enable some sort of instant runoff? What an interesting concept. Perhaps @TheScreamingEagles may consider a thread upon it...LucyJones said: 0 -
There is no 'other side' to the argument. They're all crooks and deserve chokey.Sean_F said:
On the other side of the argument, Denis MacShane did much the same.Nigel_Foremain said:Sean_F said:
At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.AlastairMeeks said:
As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.Carolus_Rex said:
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.AlastairMeeks said:Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".
£700 is pathetic.0 -
Well, he had wandering hands, but there have been far worse US office holders. Any of Kennedy, Nixon, Clinton, and Trump should have gone to prison.dyedwoolie said:
Bush snr is one of the most despicable men ever to hold office in the StatesTheuniondivvie said:
I've disconcerted myself that I've done similar with Reagan and various Bushes. There's always something/someone worse round the corner, eh?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-141698300 -
I think it highly unlikely. MPs seemed to have swallowed the line that another referendum would against democracy and don't seem to be able to grasp how counterintuitive that is. If there still is a majority of Brexit then it still has democratic legitimacy, particularly now more is known. Logic, however, does not drive many of their frothing party activists.Big_G_NorthWales said:HMG considering allowing mps to vote on seven alternative brexit options next week
Good news if true
If a referendum commands majority support it could get the enabling legislation through0 -
Much more money was involved (12,900 pounds), though.Sean_F said:
On the other side of the argument, Denis MacShane did much the same.Nigel_Foremain said:Sean_F said:
At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.AlastairMeeks said:
As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.Carolus_Rex said:
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.AlastairMeeks said:Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".
£700 is pathetic.
Denis MacGabble got 6 months.
0 -
But shockingly had to buy his own furniture ... Tut tut ..._Anazina_ said:
Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.HYUFD said:Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830
0 -
Not really but I have been following this serious issue for weeks and it has been confirmed from various sources here and in the EU, as we could not be in the EU without representation without voiding the EU elections themselvesStereotomy said:
Do you have a link to your source for this, by the way? I'm coming up short on a site wonkish enough to cover this all in detail.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No -IanB2 said:
Do we have to pass the legislation by 12 April (or 13 April, depending on the frantic discussions taking place in Strasbourg right now)? Maybe we can declare our intent by the 12th and get the legislation through in the days following.Stereotomy said:
Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extensionWhisperingOracle said:
I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts
I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely
Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
The enabling legislation has to have received royal assent by the 12th April otherwise we cannot stand MEPs in the campaign starting on the 12th April. That is why the EU named this date
I honestly do not want to be sounding awkward0 -
And that without considering his office / garage fiddle setup.YBarddCwsc said:
Much more money was involved (12,900 pounds), though.Sean_F said:
On the other side of the argument, Denis MacShane did much the same.Nigel_Foremain said:Sean_F said:
At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.AlastairMeeks said:
As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.Carolus_Rex said:
This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.AlastairMeeks said:Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.
Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".
£700 is pathetic.
Denis MacGabble got 6 months.0
This discussion has been closed.