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  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.

    The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.

    The Conservatives do well in rural, English-speaking constituencies.

    There was quite a lot of coal-mining in the South of the constituency, and it voted Labour from 1939-79. Then it went Conservative, before being won by the Liberals in 1985. and has been a Con/Lib Dem marginal seat ever since.
    Sean – many thanks for the reply.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,183
    The LDs will be favourites if there is a Brecon by election, they held it for 18 years but as a Leave seat the Tories would still have shot
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019
    _Anazina_ said:

    Tomorrow is the 15th anniversary of the foundation of PB and hundreds of thousands will be heading to London for what looks set to be an even bigger gathering than just before the Iraq invasion.

    I hope you will keep a close eye on the cops trying to underplay the numbers Mike?
    Thousands will turn out for PB - don't let the cops hide it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,008
    Dura_Ace said:

    What the hell was Davies thinking?

    I don't think he was thinking.

    All for £700.
    And what would Onasanya have got if she'd just accepted the speeding fine and the points?

    The lack of any sense of proportion is almost worse than the dishonesty in both cases.
    6 points and a £1,000 fine.
    For one speeding offence? That seems steep.
    They've changed the rules on speeding fines and points.

    The fine can now be 175% (yes one hundred and seventy five percent) of your weekly salary.

    https://www.confused.com/on-the-road/driving-law/speeding-fine-calculator
    I will probably just take the jail time for my next one. I went to boarding school and served on Ark Royal so I am well accustomed to terrible food and sleeping in close proximity to very enthusiastic wanking.
    As long as those 2 elements never commingle..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,183
    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,183
    _Anazina_ said:

    I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.

    The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.

    Rural Wales and Scotland are far more Tory than English inner cities
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    MattW said:

    IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.

    60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.

    Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861

    You can currently be abroad and yet still be a British citizen.
    And you are still entitled to vote in the UK unless you have been abroad for more than 15 years continuously.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    HYUFD said:

    The LDs will be favourites if there is a Brecon by election, they held it for 18 years but as a Leave seat the Tories would still have shot

    The Powys council area was close to the national result - so if recent polls are right it is now a Remain seat.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Dura_Ace said:

    Wasn't Kwarteng an ex pb tory fave? They come and go so fast.
    Is/was the favourite of one erstwhile expat and one current expat PBLeaver.
    That doesn't narrow it down much. One is sometimes led to the view that most PB Leavers are firewalled against their pet project by being domiciled outside the UK.

    A vociferous erstwhile poster made daily pronouncements on the need for diamond hard Brexit, from his safe house in Queensland.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,008
    Can OGH's maxim re. polls that the less you like the numbers in a poll the more likely you are to cast aspersions on the pollster & their methodology, now be applied to petitions?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    MattW said:

    IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.

    60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.

    Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861

    You can currently be abroad and yet still be a British citizen.
    As surely we know from the preponderance of expats on PB.

    The petition map looks entirely credible in terms of the geographical spread of signatures. It would be difficult for bots to produce that.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    edited March 2019
    The Brecon Beacons are a lovely spot, by the way. By coincidence, I'm off down there for some hiking and beer drinking in a few weeks' time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,183
    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,252
    Xtrain said:

    Why doesn't May offer a GE in exchange for supporting her deal?

    I think that is what will happen.

    Uncouple the WA from the PD. Pass the WA and leave on 22/5.

    New Tory leader, then a GE with competing visions for the Future Relationship.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    _Anazina_ said:

    I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.

    The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.

    That bit is nowadays... Labour around Cardiff/Swansea/Wrexham; then the empty bits are split between PC in the west and Tories in the east (plus Pembrokeshire.. aka "Little England Beyond Wales")

    Wales Parliamentary Constituency 2017 Results
    Presumably the green bits (PCY) align with Welsh-speaking areas?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,183
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    The LDs will be favourites if there is a Brecon by election, they held it for 18 years but as a Leave seat the Tories would still have shot

    The Powys council area was close to the national result - so if recent polls are right it is now a Remain seat.
    Even more likely to be LD then
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Brexiteers should start agitating for a third referendum now, save some time
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,261
    Scott_P said:
    Can they also hand out pottery shards to be used as ostraka ?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,183

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    AV?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,275
    edited March 2019

    MattW said:

    IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.

    60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.

    Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861

    Are you just taking about the fact that the country breakdown doesn't add up to the total number? The data's probably out-of-date. They've slowed the updates of the count right down, presumably to reduce the load, and the query that does the groupings would probably be slower than the count one.
    Their statement is that counts are being updated every half hour, and it doesn't exactly take much resource to keep a text file up to date - they should have a half-decent cache setup.

    We'll see.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.

    The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.

    The Conservatives do well in rural, English-speaking constituencies.

    There was quite a lot of coal-mining in the South of the constituency, and it voted Labour from 1939-79. Then it went Conservative, before being won by the Liberals in 1985. and has been a Con/Lib Dem marginal seat ever since.
    And something of Liberal tradition like other rural Welsh seats - the Liberals polled 20% in 1945 for example
    The Liberals collapsed more quickly than in other seats. They lost the seat in 1924, after being returned unopposed in 1923, before regaining it in 1985.

    They manged to hold on to other Welsh rural seats up till 1950.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    RH1992 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That banner is awful. It's attempting to be "down with the kids" yet it's got some pretty deeply unpopular leaders in front of it.
    Have all the people in the poster just received their A Level results?
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    edited March 2019
    As the consensus seems to be he will get less than 12 months then we're on to a recall petition and that looks tricky in such a large rural constituency. He may resign voluntarily of course but to date none of the various miscreants amongst the 3 largest parties in parliament have taken that course of action.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,008
    edited March 2019

    Brexiteers should start agitating for a third referendum now, save some time

    Farage started that on 23/06/16 didn't he?
  • oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    Surely BRINO wins that process? Even more so if secret ballot.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,149
    edited March 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Tomorrow is the 15th anniversary of the foundation of PB and hundreds of thousands will be heading to London for what looks set to be an even bigger gathering than just before the Iraq invasion.

    The tricks those 'Remain' people go to to swell their numbers :)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,275
    edited March 2019
    JackW said:

    Chris Davies case referred to the Crown Court. Black cap sentencing ?!?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47667080

    Do we know what the alleged sum involved was?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.

    This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
    As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Brexiteers should start agitating for a third referendum now, save some time

    Farage started that on 22/06/16 didn't he?
    Lol yes quite
  • _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Scott_P said:

    A system so simple and easy to execute that it is a wonder we didn't do it earlier.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.

    This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
    As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.
    At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.

    £700 is pathetic.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,252

    But that's why I was suggesting votes on the other real or imaginary options first.

    Absolutely.

    We have a deal to leave that has taken 2 years to negotiate and we know for a fact can be implemented straightaway.

    So should we (i) check out alternatives and if there aren't any do the deal?

    Or should we (ii) reject the deal and THEN go flapping around looking for alternatives?

    The correct answer is (i).
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited March 2019
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.

    60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.

    Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861

    Are you just taking about the fact that the country breakdown doesn't add up to the total number? The data's probably out-of-date. They've slowed the updates of the count right down, presumably to reduce the load, and the query that does the groupings would probably be slower than the count one.
    Their statement is that counts are being updated every half hour, and it doesn't exactly take much resource to keep a text file up to date - they should have a half-decent cache setup.

    We'll see.
    They're firefighting to keep the site up. You're right that it doesn't take much resource but that presumes that the site was originally built to handle this level of load, and it wasn't. (A couple of friends of mine were giving them advice on database and webserver tuning last night.)
  • MattW said:

    JackW said:

    Chris Davies case referred to the Crown Court. Black cap sentencing ?!?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47667080

    Do we know what the alleged sum involved was?
    700 quid.

    Trash your rep, ruin your career for 700 quid. Idiot.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    What the hell was Davies thinking?

    I don't think he was thinking.

    All for £700.
    And what would Onasanya have got if she'd just accepted the speeding fine and the points?

    The lack of any sense of proportion is almost worse than the dishonesty in both cases.
    6 points and a £1,000 fine.
    For one speeding offence? That seems steep.
    Those are rookie numbers. I've had 5k+ with costs and narrowly escaped porridge.
    Frankly if that's the speed advantage that Dura Ace gives you, I need to upgrade from Tiagra.
    10 speed Tiagra is fine apart from the cassette which is garbage.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.

    This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
    As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.
    Yes, rather than having wysteria cleared off your chimney or splitting an uninvoiced cash in hand cleaner with your brother and acting all offended anyone might think it iffy
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    What should the benchmark be set at for the People's Vote tomorrow, bearing in mind that under 50 did Nigel Farage's Leave Means Leave march?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    What should the benchmark be set at for the People's Vote tomorrow, bearing in mind that under 50 did Nigel Farage's Leave Means Leave march?

    0.001% of the electorate or 75 people if at least one public building gets torched
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,275
    Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.

    The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.

    The Conservatives do well in rural, English-speaking constituencies.

    There was quite a lot of coal-mining in the South of the constituency, and it voted Labour from 1939-79. Then it went Conservative, before being won by the Liberals in 1985. and has been a Con/Lib Dem marginal seat ever since.
    Checking, Labour vote was last above 20% in 2001 at 21%.

    Last time Tories 48.6%. Lab + Lib Dem 46% (LD - 29%). UKIP notalot. Looks interesting.

    I wonder if the Tiggers will stand.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Sean_F said:

    Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.

    This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
    As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.
    At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.

    £700 is pathetic.
    As I said downthread, the problem with expenses fraud is proof. You decide to progress a case when there is a clear pattern of abuse. But the instances you can prove beyond any reasonable doubt are a handful of instances at the tip of an iceberg.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,149
    edited March 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    The 11th April is the last chance to revoke but enabling legislation needs to be in place to do so

    I assume many will not be aware of that
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s.
    Yes, I think that was true for many of us, me included.
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    _Anazina_ said:

    Scott_P said:

    A system so simple and easy to execute that it is a wonder we didn't do it earlier.
    They could do with some sort of system where the voters get to rank the options by order of preference. There must be a name for it?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,261
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What the hell was Davies thinking?

    I don't think he was thinking.

    All for £700.
    And what would Onasanya have got if she'd just accepted the speeding fine and the points?

    The lack of any sense of proportion is almost worse than the dishonesty in both cases.
    6 points and a £1,000 fine.
    For one speeding offence? That seems steep.
    Those are rookie numbers. I've had 5k+ with costs and narrowly escaped porridge.
    Frankly if that's the speed advantage that Dura Ace gives you, I need to upgrade from Tiagra.
    10 speed Tiagra is fine apart from the cassette which is garbage.
    You know, the BBC might be able to rescue Top Gear if they hired you, and put it on post watershed...

  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    The 11th April is the last chance to revoke

    I assume many will not be aware of that
    Okay, so same question except replace "12th" with "11th"
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited March 2019
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.

    60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.

    Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861

    Are you just taking about the fact that the country breakdown doesn't add up to the total number? The data's probably out-of-date. They've slowed the updates of the count right down, presumably to reduce the load, and the query that does the groupings would probably be slower than the count one.
    Their statement is that counts are being updated every half hour, and it doesn't exactly take much resource to keep a text file up to date - they should have a half-decent cache setup.

    We'll see.
    I doubt they have a decent anything set up if they had to reduce a count of 3 million rows to once every half hour. It looks like they were just never expecting a petition this popular.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    The MP fiddling £700, reminds me of that story of the city worker on mega bucks who fiddled his train ticket to save a couple of grand a year...what total idiots.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    Do we have to pass the legislation by 12 April (or 13 April, depending on the frantic discussions taking place in Strasbourg right now)? Maybe we can declare our intent by the 12th and get the legislation through in the days following.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    What should the benchmark be set at for the People's Vote tomorrow, bearing in mind that under 50 did Nigel Farage's Leave Means Leave march?


    If at least 51 people turn up tomorrow, it will be a victory for Remain, and the "will of the people" will have been heard. Fingers tightly crossed.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Sean_F said:

    Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.

    This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
    As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.
    At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.

    £700 is pathetic.
    If I have read the facts correctly he was entitled to make this claim but didn't have the supporting documentary evidence . So he falsified it. Stupid and it make him unfit to be an MP just as it would do for an accountant or any other professional who tried the same trick. But it is barely worthy of jail time in the scheme of things.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EU
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    The 11th April is the last chance to revoke

    I assume many will not be aware of that
    Okay, so same question except replace "12th" with "11th"
    Not sure to a few hours of the legal timing. 11th /12th subject to time confirmation
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s.
    Many did. I saw Sir JM give a speech at a private function a few years ago, he was excellent. My type of Tory, but sadly a dying breed.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EU
    But they can't say no to us revoking.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    _Anazina_ said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s.
    Yes, I think that was true for many of us, me included.
    My view of him has gone the other way. This is the man who was taken for a ride by the EU over opt outs, wrote a whining letter to the Commission complaining about it and was only saved from being shown up as completely toothless and inept by losing the election in 97.

    His opinion of Brexit is one of those which should be consigned to the bin unopened.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    A great line up. Cable and Lammy excepted.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Sean_F said:

    Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.

    This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
    As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.
    At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.

    Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".

    £700 is pathetic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,183

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EU
    If we revoke we would contest the EU Parliament elections anyway
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    LucyJones said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Scott_P said:

    A system so simple and easy to execute that it is a wonder we didn't do it earlier.
    They could do with some sort of system where the voters get to rank the options by order of preference. There must be a name for it?

    I couldn't begin to imagine what system you are referring to Lucy! :wink:
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EU
    But they can't say no to us revoking.
    Yes but without MV3 we fall out on April 11 no deal, if we revoke before then..,,, chaos if the legislation isn't passed
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s.
    That's partly down to context - in the 1990s big beasts such as Thatcher, Healey, Jenkins, Heath, Hurd etc etc were still around and against them Major and Heseltine do not stand out. But set them against May and Corbyn and today's frontbenchers on both sides and the comparison looks very different.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    Can they also hand out pottery shards to be used as ostraka ?

    So, it's a secret vote. That should ensure nothing gets a majority as the hardline Brexiteers will only vote for no deal and the remainers will have every incentive to vote only for revocation with complete deniability. Only an open vote will result in a compromise solution.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,261

    _Anazina_ said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s.
    Yes, I think that was true for many of us, me included.
    My view of him has gone the other way. This is the man who was taken for a ride by the EU over opt outs, wrote a whining letter to the Commission complaining about it and was only saved from being shown up as completely toothless and inept by losing the election in 97.

    His opinion of Brexit is one of those which should be consigned to the bin unopened.
    So more accurately, your opinion of him has never changed.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    _Anazina_ said:

    What should the benchmark be set at for the People's Vote tomorrow, bearing in mind that under 50 did Nigel Farage's Leave Means Leave march?


    If at least 51 people turn up tomorrow, it will be a victory for Remain, and the "will of the people" will have been heard. Fingers tightly crossed.
    So we know our Casino will put the number at 49? Despite the crowds filling our TV screen.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    _Anazina_ said:

    Scott_P said:

    A system so simple and easy to execute that it is a wonder we didn't do it earlier.
    Corbyn will see it as a dastardly Tory/Jewish plot and refuse to participate.
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    Do we have to pass the legislation by 12 April (or 13 April, depending on the frantic discussions taking place in Strasbourg right now)? Maybe we can declare our intent by the 12th and get the legislation through in the days following.
    No -

    The enabling legislation has to have received royal assent by the 12th April otherwise we cannot stand MEPs in the campaign starting on the 12th April. That is why the EU named this date
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Do we know when MPs will next get the chance to put a Benn-ish amendment?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    IMO that petition looks pretty dodgy.

    60% of the signatures appear to be unidentifiable.

    Be pleased to be proved wrong; I thought that this petition platform was the gold standard.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1109067689656569861

    Are you just taking about the fact that the country breakdown doesn't add up to the total number? The data's probably out-of-date. They've slowed the updates of the count right down, presumably to reduce the load, and the query that does the groupings would probably be slower than the count one.
    Their statement is that counts are being updated every half hour, and it doesn't exactly take much resource to keep a text file up to date - they should have a half-decent cache setup.

    We'll see.
    I doubt they have a decent anything set up if they had to reduce a count of 3 million rows to once every half hour. It looks like they were just never expecting a petition this popular.
    Amateurs, Felix Kjellberg is at 90.77 million now.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,008

    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s.
    I've disconcerted myself that I've done similar with Reagan and various Bushes. There's always something/someone worse round the corner, eh?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EU
    If we revoke we would contest the EU Parliament elections anyway
    Got to pass the enabling legislation in time though
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    _Anazina_ said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s.
    Yes, I think that was true for many of us, me included.
    My view of him has gone the other way. This is the man who was taken for a ride by the EU over opt outs, wrote a whining letter to the Commission complaining about it and was only saved from being shown up as completely toothless and inept by losing the election in 97.

    His opinion of Brexit is one of those which should be consigned to the bin unopened.
    You don't afford him significant credit over his role in clearing the way to the Good Friday Agreement?
  • What should the benchmark be set at for the People's Vote tomorrow, bearing in mind that under 50 did Nigel Farage's Leave Means Leave march?

    Good one Alastair
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,183
    edited March 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    The Boles plan is to pass Norway+ as the political declaration but leave the Withdrawal Agreement unchanged so it can then be passed as a Withdrawal Agreement leading to BINO
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    Do we have to pass the legislation by 12 April (or 13 April, depending on the frantic discussions taking place in Strasbourg right now)? Maybe we can declare our intent by the 12th and get the legislation through in the days following.
    No -

    The enabling legislation has to have received royal assent by the 12th April otherwise we cannot stand MEPs in the campaign starting on the 12th April. That is why the EU named this date
    Do you have a link to your source for this, by the way? I'm coming up short on a site wonkish enough to cover this all in detail.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    Can OGH's maxim re. polls that the less you like the numbers in a poll the more likely you are to cast aspersions on the pollster & their methodology, now be applied to petitions?

    I dislike X.

    Therefore X must be incomplete (you can say this about anything), not comprehensive (ditto) contradicted by a subsample (always possible), contradicted by other authoritative sources (ditto) implausible (depends on your head), I refuse to believe it (some people actually do this), it's only down to some bad people (irrelevant), it's obviously fake (it may be fake but it isn't obvious), what kind of people would do this (not relevant), it's obviously Russian bots (might be, might not be).
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    I’m amazed that this vast seat in mid Wales is Tory.

    The Welsh have never struck me as particularly fond of the blue team.

    The Conservatives do well in rural, English-speaking constituencies.

    There was quite a lot of coal-mining in the South of the constituency, and it voted Labour from 1939-79. Then it went Conservative, before being won by the Liberals in 1985. and has been a Con/Lib Dem marginal seat ever since.
    And something of Liberal tradition like other rural Welsh seats - the Liberals polled 20% in 1945 for example
    I love the way you point to 20 per cent of the vote over seventy years ago with pride.

    There is something irredeemably poignant about the LibDems.

    We have the Lab and Tory parties led by seriously flawed individuals, and even then the LibDems can't make progress.

    What is the chance that the Labour and Tories will ever be led simultaneously by such incompetent individuals ever again. Under a fraction of a per cent.

    Let's be brutally honest. Or just brutal.

    If the LibDems can't make progress when Corby and Theresa are their opponents, and when they are the only party advocating what 48 per cent (possibly more now) of the population want in the major issue of the day, then they should pack it in.
  • HMG considering allowing mps to vote on seven alternative brexit options next week

    Good news if true

    If a referendum commands majority support it could get the enabling legislation through
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,183

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    Basically no extension beyond 11 April unless legislation passed as it would invalidate the EU parliament if we haven't returned MEPs and essentially break the EU
    If we revoke we would contest the EU Parliament elections anyway
    Got to pass the enabling legislation in time though
    If we revoke the EU would extend to allow for that as they would then know Parliament has voted to cancel Brexit
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s.
    I've disconcerted myself that I've done similar with Reagan and various Bushes. There's always something/someone worse round the corner, eh?
    Bush snr is one of the most despicable men ever to hold office in the States
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    HMG considering allowing mps to vote on seven alternative brexit options next week

    Good news if true

    If a referendum commands majority support it could get the enabling legislation through

    I don't think it will.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    Sean_F said:

    Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.

    This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
    As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.
    At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.

    Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".

    £700 is pathetic.
    On the other side of the argument, Denis MacShane did much the same.
  • tottenhamWCtottenhamWC Posts: 352
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    The Boles plan is to pass Norway+ as the political declaration but leave the Withdrawal Agreement unchanged so it can then be passed as a Withdrawal Agreement leading to BINO
    Suspect that option and the second referendum Kyle amendment would probably have the most support, but both likely shy of a majority.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Pulpstar said:

    HMG considering allowing mps to vote on seven alternative brexit options next week

    Good news if true

    If a referendum commands majority support it could get the enabling legislation through

    I don't think it will.
    Depends whether Remain-leaning Tories discover their backbones. They may finally have realised that hitching their wagon to May isn't going so well.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.

    This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
    As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.
    At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.

    Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".

    £700 is pathetic.
    On the other side of the argument, Denis MacShane did much the same.
    Denis macshane expense fiddling was a different order of magnitude.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136
    LucyJones said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Scott_P said:

    A system so simple and easy to execute that it is a wonder we didn't do it earlier.
    They could do with some sort of system where the voters get to rank the options by order of preference. There must be a name for it?

    As an alternative to the present voting system that would enable some sort of instant runoff? What an interesting concept. Perhaps @TheScreamingEagles may consider a thread upon it... :)
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.

    This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
    As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.
    At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.

    Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".

    £700 is pathetic.
    On the other side of the argument, Denis MacShane did much the same.
    There is no 'other side' to the argument. They're all crooks and deserve chokey.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    Tarzan and Sir John Major have gone up greatly in my estimation over these last few years, during this debacle. I judged Major in particular far too harshly, back in the 90s.
    I've disconcerted myself that I've done similar with Reagan and various Bushes. There's always something/someone worse round the corner, eh?
    Bush snr is one of the most despicable men ever to hold office in the States
    Well, he had wandering hands, but there have been far worse US office holders. Any of Kennedy, Nixon, Clinton, and Trump should have gone to prison.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    HMG considering allowing mps to vote on seven alternative brexit options next week

    Good news if true

    If a referendum commands majority support it could get the enabling legislation through

    I think it highly unlikely. MPs seemed to have swallowed the line that another referendum would against democracy and don't seem to be able to grasp how counterintuitive that is. If there still is a majority of Brexit then it still has democratic legitimacy, particularly now more is known. Logic, however, does not drive many of their frothing party activists.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.

    This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
    As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.
    At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.

    Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".

    £700 is pathetic.
    On the other side of the argument, Denis MacShane did much the same.
    Much more money was involved (12,900 pounds), though.

    Denis MacGabble got 6 months.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Heseltine keynote speaker at tomorrow's 'People's Vote' March alongside Nicola Sturgeon, David Lammy, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Vince Cable and Caroline Lucas

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-put-people-march-time-14169830

    Great to see Hezza going strong at his ripe age. I was never a fan of his politics but he is a serious guy – and a gentleman to boot.
    But shockingly had to buy his own furniture ... Tut tut ...

    :smiley:
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    EUref2 would probably win that then but without a majority
    Hmm... is it possible... could MP's themselves reach a decisive position.. alight on a solution ..actual functioning of the legislature?

    Surely not.
    It would not get the enabling bill past the HOC by 12th April and that is mandated for any extension

    I do apologise to PB for constant repetition of this issue but it needs to colour everyone' s thoughts

    I am not saying it is impossible by the 12th April but I would suggest extremely unlikely

    Indeed Hyufd is very knowledgeable and I am surprised he has not refered to the enabling legislation road block
    Out of interest, what happens if we haven't passed the necessary legislation by 12th April but then unilaterally revoke on that date?
    Do we have to pass the legislation by 12 April (or 13 April, depending on the frantic discussions taking place in Strasbourg right now)? Maybe we can declare our intent by the 12th and get the legislation through in the days following.
    No -

    The enabling legislation has to have received royal assent by the 12th April otherwise we cannot stand MEPs in the campaign starting on the 12th April. That is why the EU named this date
    Do you have a link to your source for this, by the way? I'm coming up short on a site wonkish enough to cover this all in detail.
    Not really but I have been following this serious issue for weeks and it has been confirmed from various sources here and in the EU, as we could not be in the EU without representation without voiding the EU elections themselves

    I honestly do not want to be sounding awkward
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Another in the series of “MPs are stupid”. Looks a great target for the Lib Dems.

    This is the issue I have. I don't really mind MPs being crooks. I practically expect them to be. For that matter I don't really mind so much if they're stupid, ditto. But crooked *and* stupid is a bit hard to take.
    As with the expenses scandal, it's the triviality that galls. If you're going to be bent, make sure you get yourself a plutonium-powered helicopter or a personal MagLev line from your home to the House of Commons.
    At least 10 years ago, Tory MP's were billing the taxpayers for their moats and helipads.

    Indicative of how thick members of the ERG are. I don't know why they don't just drop the pretence, put knotted hankies on their heads, clench their fists and say "my brain hurts".

    £700 is pathetic.
    On the other side of the argument, Denis MacShane did much the same.
    Much more money was involved (12,900 pounds), though.

    Denis MacGabble got 6 months.
    And that without considering his office / garage fiddle setup.
This discussion has been closed.