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The 1o79 Callaghan Winter of discontent press conference – the basis of the Sun’s famous “Crisis What Crisis” headline
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First!0
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Excellent thread (as usual) - and we have no shortage of crises going around.
On Cardinal Pell I have been reading in the Australian press some disquiet over his conviction - based on the sole testimony on one complainant (the other allegedly having denied the allegation before his death) and no other evidence of grooming or other assaults, which would tend to be unusual in these types of cases.0 -
Isn't there a bit of a leadership paradox?
If the leader comes to understand the scale of the problem sufficiently to consider that they might need to leave, are they not then finally able to lead the action needed to fix the issue - and if they go there's no guarantee that their successor will have the same understanding.
If Theresa May comes to that conclusion then we are basically in that situation. She'd know there's a good chance that someone anointed by the ERG would take over and that would make the situation far worse.0 -
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FPT re March 4 Brexit
Looks like they're planning on going over the Transporter Bridge. Could be a bit of a wait to get across especially if it's high winds. Still, 70p a person to Middlesbrough Council ....0 -
Mr. Me, the opposite of that might be called the Numa Conundrum (he was made king of Rome after Romulus, without his knowledge or consent as he was living elsewhere at the time).
We should also have the Julian Surprise, after Julian the Apostate who got made Caesar (junior emperor) largely on the basis he was the only living male relative of the emperor.0 -
Blue Vests anyone?
"Being a core marcher means you will receive an official March to Leave kit to help you on the march. These are the items you will receive on the day:
Waterproof coat
Beanie hat
Gloves
Water bottle
T-Shirt
Wristband
High visibility blue jacket"
https://www.marchtoleave.com/march0 -
WRT scandals, I remember how I and fellow schoolboys took it for granted in the eighties that there were some "dodgy" teachers, with very wandering hands.0 -
It's a rubbish route. Not only is it not continuous they've just let Google choose the route and missed out good publicity opportunities.Freggles said:FPT re March 4 Brexit
Looks like they're planning on going over the Transporter Bridge. Could be a bit of a wait to get across especially if it's high winds. Still, 70p a person to Middlesbrough Council ....
So, for example, the Aylesbury to Beaconsfield leg on 28th March looks like it just goes straight down the A413, so they will pass within a couple of miles of Chequers when they could with little additional difficulty walk past the official country residence of the Prime Minister.0 -
Some of the times look a bit err... optimistic to me, also I'd love to know exactly where they're walking on the A60 between Tickhill and Oldcotes. It's a quick route; there's no pavement and the field I assume is trespass (And likely very tough going to walk through)Freggles said:FPT re March 4 Brexit
Looks like they're planning on going over the Transporter Bridge. Could be a bit of a wait to get across especially if it's high winds. Still, 70p a person to Middlesbrough Council ....0 -
Very good piece Ms @Cyclefree, as always.0
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I was wondering about that. I know some of these areas, and have walked in them. Some of the routes seem a little odd - e.g. Corby to Wellingborough. From the low-detail maps, it doesn't seem a 'natural' route. Perhaps they've had other restrictions, e.g. after police and council input.Freggles said:FPT re March 4 Brexit
Looks like they're planning on going over the Transporter Bridge. Could be a bit of a wait to get across especially if it's high winds. Still, 70p a person to Middlesbrough Council ....
It doesn't appear they've just gone into Google Maps and entered the 'walk' tab.
If they need someone to design 'proper' routes, I'm available for a fee.
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In what universe is a BLUE jacket considered high visibility???GIN1138 said:Blue Vests anyone?
"Being a core marcher means you will receive an official March to Leave kit to help you on the march. These are the items you will receive on the day:
Waterproof coat
Beanie hat
Gloves
Water bottle
T-Shirt
Wristband
High visibility blue jacket"
https://www.marchtoleave.com/march
Edit: or is it just more visible than other blue jackets?0 -
FPT:
My thinking is that by the time the Parliament actually sits, we either will be members or we won't be - but if we are and haven't conducted the elections, then it's a big problem for the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the problem they then have is that if we leave after that date, the distribution of seats amongst the remaining 27 is kind of broken. I am not sure exactly how much of an issue that is - but for example the election of a new president of the Parliament would be interesting if it included the votes of MEPs who then shortly afterwards left their seats.Sandpit said:
Hypothetical question: If the EU agree a three month extension to 30th June, could they also insist that we proceed with the EU elections, in order to cover the situation whereby we extend again or revoke A50?williamglenn said:
He knows that it's not just going to be a three month extension.rcs1000 said:I can understand someone resigning over a 24 month extension. Resigning over a three month one, which will still almost certainly be required even if the WA passes, seems silly.
The new EU Parliament sits on 2nd July, and if the UK is still a member on that date it would not be correctly constituted without our MEPs.
I can se why the EU would be very keen to avoid such a situation.
Given that MEPs are elected from closed party lists, it would be easy enough to redo the D'Hondt counting process and seat distributions once the UK's membership status is confirmed, in order to determine who is eligible from each member state to be in the Parliament. That process being easier than trying to arrange election of the UK MEPs at a few days' notice.0 -
Is this supposed to be a modern day Jarrow March?GIN1138 said:Zimmer frames at the ready?
https://www.marchtoleave.com/
The original march in 1936 was all about unemployment. Not sure this one has quite the same resonance.
If you are interested in choral music, The Burning Road is a cantata by Will Todd based on the march.0 -
I think they might be a smidgen suspicious as to where they might end up.JosiasJessop said:
I was wondering about that. I know some of these areas, and have walked in them. Some of the routes seem a little odd - e.g. Corby to Wellingborough. From the low-detail maps, it doesn't seem a 'natural' route. Perhaps they've had other restrictions, e.g. after police and council input.Freggles said:FPT re March 4 Brexit
Looks like they're planning on going over the Transporter Bridge. Could be a bit of a wait to get across especially if it's high winds. Still, 70p a person to Middlesbrough Council ....
It doesn't appear they've just gone into Google Maps and entered the 'walk' tab.
If they need someone to design 'proper' routes, I'm available for a fee.0 -
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The obvious drag name is Theresa Male.TGOHF said:0 -
A rather different response to some we’ve had from Labour
https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1101154411248787456?s=210 -
It's D'Hondt in Britain, but STV in Ireland, I think. Maybe different in other places. I think electoral law in various countries specifies how many MEPs are elected. I don't think it can easily be modified after the event.Sandpit said:FPT:
My thinking is that by the time the Parliament actually sits, we either will be members or we won't be - but if we are and haven't conducted the elections, then it's a big problem for the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the problem they then have is that if we leave after that date, the distribution of seats amongst the remaining 27 is kind of broken. I am not sure exactly how much of an issue that is - but for example the election of a new president of the Parliament would be interesting if it included the votes of MEPs who then shortly afterwards left their seats.Sandpit said:
Hypothetical question: If the EU agree a three month extension to 30th June, could they also insist that we proceed with the EU elections, in order to cover the situation whereby we extend again or revoke A50?williamglenn said:
He knows that it's not just going to be a three month extension.rcs1000 said:I can understand someone resigning over a 24 month extension. Resigning over a three month one, which will still almost certainly be required even if the WA passes, seems silly.
The new EU Parliament sits on 2nd July, and if the UK is still a member on that date it would not be correctly constituted without our MEPs.
I can se why the EU would be very keen to avoid such a situation.
Given that MEPs are elected from closed party lists, it would be easy enough to redo the D'Hondt counting process and seat distributions once the UK's membership status is confirmed, in order to determine who is eligible from each member state to be in the Parliament. That process being easier than trying to arrange election of the UK MEPs at a few days' notice.
Just as with Northern Ireland this has the potential to be a much bigger issue down the road that we'd wish people had dealt with earlier.0 -
I was thinking that the reasons for e.g. Corby to Wellingborough was that the former is a Lab/Con marginal that voted Leave, and the latter is Peter Bone's constituency.JosiasJessop said:
I was wondering about that. I know some of these areas, and have walked in them. Some of the routes seem a little odd - e.g. Corby to Wellingborough. From the low-detail maps, it doesn't seem a 'natural' route. Perhaps they've had other restrictions, e.g. after police and council input.Freggles said:FPT re March 4 Brexit
Looks like they're planning on going over the Transporter Bridge. Could be a bit of a wait to get across especially if it's high winds. Still, 70p a person to Middlesbrough Council ....
It doesn't appear they've just gone into Google Maps and entered the 'walk' tab.
If they need someone to design 'proper' routes, I'm available for a fee.
The selected towns are probably those with activists from Leave Means Leave.0 -
He's not defecting.CarlottaVance said:A rather different response to some we’ve had from Labour
https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1101154411248787456?s=210 -
You'll want to be highly visible here : :EEndillion said:
In what universe is a BLUE jacket considered high visibility???GIN1138 said:Blue Vests anyone?
"Being a core marcher means you will receive an official March to Leave kit to help you on the march. These are the items you will receive on the day:
Waterproof coat
Beanie hat
Gloves
Water bottle
T-Shirt
Wristband
High visibility blue jacket"
https://www.marchtoleave.com/march
Edit: or is it just more visible than other blue jackets?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4078585,-1.1161094,3a,75y,182.83h,86.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sD3MG78W_kC0AovN425ZvsA!2e0!7i13312!8i66560 -
All stamped with Сделано в России?GIN1138 said:Blue Vests anyone?
"Being a core marcher means you will receive an official March to Leave kit to help you on the march. These are the items you will receive on the day:
Waterproof coat
Beanie hat
Gloves
Water bottle
T-Shirt
Wristband
High visibility blue jacket"
https://www.marchtoleave.com/march0 -
Will be interesting to see how many people turn out for this?Verulamius said:
Is this supposed to be a modern day Jarrow March?GIN1138 said:Zimmer frames at the ready?
https://www.marchtoleave.com/
The original march in 1936 was all about unemployment. Not sure this one has quite the same resonance.
If you are interested in choral music, The Burning Road is a cantata by Will Todd based on the march.
We have heard a lot from Remainers since June 2016 while the Leavers have been kind of forgotten so now is their chance to be heard...0 -
The more they paid me, the better the instructions, and the better the finish point.kjh said:
I think they might be a smidgen suspicious as to where they might end up.JosiasJessop said:
I was wondering about that. I know some of these areas, and have walked in them. Some of the routes seem a little odd - e.g. Corby to Wellingborough. From the low-detail maps, it doesn't seem a 'natural' route. Perhaps they've had other restrictions, e.g. after police and council input.Freggles said:FPT re March 4 Brexit
Looks like they're planning on going over the Transporter Bridge. Could be a bit of a wait to get across especially if it's high winds. Still, 70p a person to Middlesbrough Council ....
It doesn't appear they've just gone into Google Maps and entered the 'walk' tab.
If they need someone to design 'proper' routes, I'm available for a fee.
In all seriousness, there must be a lot of work in organising this sort of thing. Not just in planning a route, but I assume in negotiating with councils, police and other authorities. And in keeping people safe and fit.
A decade or so ago I planned a route across Britain for a woman's charity walk. It took ages, and getting council permissions for charity collections was really hard for her. Street collection licences are a massive difficulty (on my walk I just didn't bother - nobody complained).0 -
Are the Cult going to be able to contain themselves on twitter?CarlottaVance said:twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1101154007974887424
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No doubt being sent to a women's prison ...williamglenn said:
The obvious drag name is Theresa Male.TGOHF said:0 -
@JosiasJessop Take a look at the Tickhill - Oldcotes section, will they be going at the side of the field or on the verge next to the main road ?0
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Guardian have form on this...
In a now-deleted opinion piece, Anna Maria Tuckett, an EU migrant and carer for her disabled son, wrote that she had been advised she was ‘unlikely to qualify for citizenship’ after Brexit and therefore could be deported and separated from her son. The piece also seemed to suggest that she could be denied settled status because she is a home-based carer.
If this were true, it would, of course, be a travesty. I could understand why the Guardian would run it. A faceless Home Office official taking an immigrant mother and carer from her son because of the evils of Brexit. It’s liberal clickbait.
The only thing is, the story is total rubbish.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/28/the-guardians-anti-brexit-fake-news/0 -
Спроектировано в России, сделано в Китае.Theuniondivvie said:
All stamped with Сделано в России?GIN1138 said:Blue Vests anyone?
"Being a core marcher means you will receive an official March to Leave kit to help you on the march. These are the items you will receive on the day:
Waterproof coat
Beanie hat
Gloves
Water bottle
T-Shirt
Wristband
High visibility blue jacket"
https://www.marchtoleave.com/march0 -
'tis a thing apparently.Endillion said:
In what universe is a BLUE jacket considered high visibility???GIN1138 said:Blue Vests anyone?
"Being a core marcher means you will receive an official March to Leave kit to help you on the march. These are the items you will receive on the day:
Waterproof coat
Beanie hat
Gloves
Water bottle
T-Shirt
Wristband
High visibility blue jacket"
https://www.marchtoleave.com/march
Edit: or is it just more visible than other blue jackets?
http://tinyurl.com/y4qvyevm0 -
Not all countries do use closed lists: Ireland uses STV, for example. That said, I don't think there's anywhere where it wouldn't be possible to identify which the 'extra' MEPs are.Sandpit said:FPT:
My thinking is that by the time the Parliament actually sits, we either will be members or we won't be - but if we are and haven't conducted the elections, then it's a big problem for the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the problem they then have is that if we leave after that date, the distribution of seats amongst the remaining 27 is kind of broken. I am not sure exactly how much of an issue that is - but for example the election of a new president of the Parliament would be interesting if it included the votes of MEPs who then shortly afterwards left their seats.Sandpit said:
Hypothetical question: If the EU agree a three month extension to 30th June, could they also insist that we proceed with the EU elections, in order to cover the situation whereby we extend again or revoke A50?williamglenn said:
He knows that it's not just going to be a three month extension.rcs1000 said:I can understand someone resigning over a 24 month extension. Resigning over a three month one, which will still almost certainly be required even if the WA passes, seems silly.
The new EU Parliament sits on 2nd July, and if the UK is still a member on that date it would not be correctly constituted without our MEPs.
I can se why the EU would be very keen to avoid such a situation.
Given that MEPs are elected from closed party lists, it would be easy enough to redo the D'Hondt counting process and seat distributions once the UK's membership status is confirmed, in order to determine who is eligible from each member state to be in the Parliament. That process being easier than trying to arrange election of the UK MEPs at a few days' notice.0 -
I've no problem with the start ad end points: just the routes between them. For instance, as far as I can tell from these maps, the route goes between the two by an 'interesting' route, and missing Kettering by a couple of miles. It'd be easy enough to go through that town as well (which I think was also heavily leave).Sandpit said:
I was thinking that the reasons for e.g. Corby to Wellingborough was that the former is a Lab/Con marginal that voted Leave, and the latter is Peter Bone's constituency.JosiasJessop said:
I was wondering about that. I know some of these areas, and have walked in them. Some of the routes seem a little odd - e.g. Corby to Wellingborough. From the low-detail maps, it doesn't seem a 'natural' route. Perhaps they've had other restrictions, e.g. after police and council input.Freggles said:FPT re March 4 Brexit
Looks like they're planning on going over the Transporter Bridge. Could be a bit of a wait to get across especially if it's high winds. Still, 70p a person to Middlesbrough Council ....
It doesn't appear they've just gone into Google Maps and entered the 'walk' tab.
If they need someone to design 'proper' routes, I'm available for a fee.
The selected towns are probably those with activists from Leave Means Leave.0 -
£2.89 and Farage wants fifty quid?Theuniondivvie said:
'tis a thing apparently.Endillion said:
In what universe is a BLUE jacket considered high visibility???GIN1138 said:Blue Vests anyone?
"Being a core marcher means you will receive an official March to Leave kit to help you on the march. These are the items you will receive on the day:
Waterproof coat
Beanie hat
Gloves
Water bottle
T-Shirt
Wristband
High visibility blue jacket"
https://www.marchtoleave.com/march
Edit: or is it just more visible than other blue jackets?
http://tinyurl.com/y4qvyevm0 -
Oh crap. Really, different countries elect MEPs with different voting systems?OblitusSumMe said:
It's D'Hondt in Britain, but STV in Ireland, I think. Maybe different in other places. I think electoral law in various countries specifies how many MEPs are elected. I don't think it can easily be modified after the event.Sandpit said:FPT:
My thinking is that by the time the Parliament actually sits, we either will be members or we won't be - but if we are and haven't conducted the elections, then it's a big problem for the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the problem they then have is that if we leave after that date, the distribution of seats amongst the remaining 27 is kind of broken. I am not sure exactly how much of an issue that is - but for example the election of a new president of the Parliament would be interesting if it included the votes of MEPs who then shortly afterwards left their seats.Sandpit said:
Hypothetical question: If the EU agree a three month extension to 30th June, could they also insist that we proceed with the EU elections, in order to cover the situation whereby we extend again or revoke A50?williamglenn said:
He knows that it's not just going to be a three month extension.rcs1000 said:I can understand someone resigning over a 24 month extension. Resigning over a three month one, which will still almost certainly be required even if the WA passes, seems silly.
The new EU Parliament sits on 2nd July, and if the UK is still a member on that date it would not be correctly constituted without our MEPs.
I can se why the EU would be very keen to avoid such a situation.
Given that MEPs are elected from closed party lists, it would be easy enough to redo the D'Hondt counting process and seat distributions once the UK's membership status is confirmed, in order to determine who is eligible from each member state to be in the Parliament. That process being easier than trying to arrange election of the UK MEPs at a few days' notice.
Just as with Northern Ireland this has the potential to be a much bigger issue down the road that we'd wish people had dealt with earlier.
In that case any 3-month extension is going to have to be totally and utterly final, and purely for the purposes of straightening the paperwork on an already agreed deal - meaning in the UK that *all* the required legislation - not just one 'meaningful' vote in the Commons - to have already passed by 29th March.
Edit: @david_herdson below thinks it would be possible to sort out afterwards.0 -
On topic, excellent article.0
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That is curious. Because I can't switch on the news without hearing a market trader say "We voted out so we get out NOW!!!!"GIN1138 said:
Will be interesting to see how many people turn out for this?Verulamius said:
Is this supposed to be a modern day Jarrow March?GIN1138 said:Zimmer frames at the ready?
https://www.marchtoleave.com/
The original march in 1936 was all about unemployment. Not sure this one has quite the same resonance.
If you are interested in choral music, The Burning Road is a cantata by Will Todd based on the march.
We have heard a lot from Remainers since June 2016 while the Leavers have been kind of forgotten so now is their chance to be heard...0 -
The current Streisand/echo chamber effect with the whole Momo lark I'm finding hilarious right now !FrancisUrquhart said:Guardian have form on this...
In a now-deleted opinion piece, Anna Maria Tuckett, an EU migrant and carer for her disabled son, wrote that she had been advised she was ‘unlikely to qualify for citizenship’ after Brexit and therefore could be deported and separated from her son. The piece also seemed to suggest that she could be denied settled status because she is a home-based carer.
If this were true, it would, of course, be a travesty. I could understand why the Guardian would run it. A faceless Home Office official taking an immigrant mother and carer from her son because of the evils of Brexit. It’s liberal clickbait.
The only thing is, the story is total rubbish.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/28/the-guardians-anti-brexit-fake-news/0 -
TBF, I've walked much worse than that. Then again, I'm a nutter and I'm walking alone, not in a big group.Pulpstar said:@JosiasJessop Take a look at the Tickhill - Oldcotes section, will they be going at the side of the field or on the verge next to the main road ?
I'm also rather against 'marches' across the country where the start of a day does not end at the previous day's endpoint. If you'e going to skip bits, why not just skip the entire thing?0 -
I'd go with Theresa Maybe.....williamglenn said:
The obvious drag name is Theresa Male.TGOHF said:0 -
Do we think this was just one article or a whole frippery of fakeness flung our way by said journal?FrancisUrquhart said:Guardian have form on this...
In a now-deleted opinion piece, Anna Maria Tuckett, an EU migrant and carer for her disabled son, wrote that she had been advised she was ‘unlikely to qualify for citizenship’ after Brexit and therefore could be deported and separated from her son. The piece also seemed to suggest that she could be denied settled status because she is a home-based carer.
If this were true, it would, of course, be a travesty. I could understand why the Guardian would run it. A faceless Home Office official taking an immigrant mother and carer from her son because of the evils of Brexit. It’s liberal clickbait.
The only thing is, the story is total rubbish.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/28/the-guardians-anti-brexit-fake-news/0 -
Yes, not the world's best road to walk on. Neither is the A638 from Nostell to Doncaster. If anything, that's busier.Pulpstar said:@JosiasJessop Take a look at the Tickhill - Oldcotes section, will they be going at the side of the field or on the verge next to the main road ?
I would hope they'll have an escort, which might cause traffic hold ups.
Mind you, I don't suppose the idea is to pass un-noticed.0 -
Ah okay. TBH it looks like they just typed names of towns into Google Maps and asked for the shortest route walking, rather than made any attempt to actually plan a proper route.JosiasJessop said:
I've no problem with the start ad end points: just the routes between them. For instance, as far as I can tell from these maps, the route goes between the two by an 'interesting' route, and missing Kettering by a couple of miles. It'd be easy enough to go through that town as well (which I think was also heavily leave).Sandpit said:
I was thinking that the reasons for e.g. Corby to Wellingborough was that the former is a Lab/Con marginal that voted Leave, and the latter is Peter Bone's constituency.JosiasJessop said:
I was wondering about that. I know some of these areas, and have walked in them. Some of the routes seem a little odd - e.g. Corby to Wellingborough. From the low-detail maps, it doesn't seem a 'natural' route. Perhaps they've had other restrictions, e.g. after police and council input.Freggles said:FPT re March 4 Brexit
Looks like they're planning on going over the Transporter Bridge. Could be a bit of a wait to get across especially if it's high winds. Still, 70p a person to Middlesbrough Council ....
It doesn't appear they've just gone into Google Maps and entered the 'walk' tab.
If they need someone to design 'proper' routes, I'm available for a fee.
The selected towns are probably those with activists from Leave Means Leave.
I assume that they will actually have to have permission from police and councils, who may alter the route somewhat to take account of traffic patterns and pubic disruption etc.
It's been a couple of decades since I was involved in organising a long walk, (which was for a charitable rather than political purpose). On a couple of very rural but unavoidable stretches we had a couple of well-illuminated support vehicles causing havoc by driving at walking pace on A-roads to shield half a dozen walkers from the traffic.0 -
No - because, in my experience, having presided over the problem becoming very much worse, they find it hard to cast the necessary critical eye over their own previous decisions which will likely have contributed to the problem or to make the necessary staff changes. And there is also a credibility problem with the rest of the staff. if you presided over the mess, how can the staff trust you to put it right? Trust in senior management is absolutely key to achieving effective change.OblitusSumMe said:Isn't there a bit of a leadership paradox?
If the leader comes to understand the scale of the problem sufficiently to consider that they might need to leave, are they not then finally able to lead the action needed to fix the issue - and if they go there's no guarantee that their successor will have the same understanding.
There can also be the issue that they have been pushed into accepting there is a problem. That makes it hard for them to push back against the inevitable inertia etc.
What is needed is a change of tone, of mood from the top which inspires and motivates others to do the necessary. Very hard to get that when people look at a leader and say " Well, you were the one who didn't support me when I first raised this problem x years ago."
Not impossible but rare. If I look at organisations in trouble now, in my professional opinion, a change of leadership is needed. The longer it is postponed, the harder eventual recovery will be.0 -
Well, suppose we have a short extension, didn't elect MEPs because we didn't plan on staying any longer, but still can't sort everything out and end up revoking Article 50 at the last moment in a panic. It would create an almighty mess, but some way of sorting out the details would have to be found.Sandpit said:
Oh crap. Really, different countries elect MEPs with different voting systems?OblitusSumMe said:
It's D'Hondt in Britain, but STV in Ireland, I think. Maybe different in other places. I think electoral law in various countries specifies how many MEPs are elected. I don't think it can easily be modified after the event.Sandpit said:
My thinking is that by the time the Parliament actually sits, we either will be members or we won't be - but if we are and haven't conducted the elections, then it's a big problem for the EU.
Given that MEPs are elected from closed party lists, it would be easy enough to redo the D'Hondt counting process and seat distributions once the UK's membership status is confirmed, in order to determine who is eligible from each member state to be in the Parliament. That process being easier than trying to arrange election of the UK MEPs at a few days' notice.
Just as with Northern Ireland this has the potential to be a much bigger issue down the road that we'd wish people had dealt with earlier.
In that case any 3-month extension is going to have to be totally and utterly final, and purely for the purposes of straightening the paperwork on an already agreed deal - meaning in the UK that *all* the required legislation - not just one 'meaningful' vote in the Commons - to have already passed by 29th March.
Edit: @david_herdson below thinks it would be possible to sort out afterwards.
The thing is that the potential for this mess affects the choices that people make now.0 -
On one view the person responsible for the current mess was Cameron who did the right thing and resigned resulting in the change of leadership Cyclefree is talking about. The problem is that his replacement has been utterly inept and failed to deal effectively with the crisis he left behind, aggravating it in multiple ways.
So do we now need a replacement for the replacement? I think so but the timing is tricky. I would certainly want a replacement before we start any further negotiations about more important matters than the WA with the EU. The ideal, in my opinion, is for May to get the WA through Parliament and then step down before the transition talks begin. I am just not sure how this is possible. The risk is that getting the WA through, if she does, will be regarded as giving her a boost and increasing the risk of this happening again.0 -
Doesn't Brexit -> mass unemployment - so it's a lazy man's Jarrow march aiming for the opposite result.Verulamius said:
Is this supposed to be a modern day Jarrow March?GIN1138 said:Zimmer frames at the ready?
https://www.marchtoleave.com/
The original march in 1936 was all about unemployment. Not sure this one has quite the same resonance.
If you are interested in choral music, The Burning Road is a cantata by Will Todd based on the march.
Ironically were Brexit to result in Nissan closing it would be true...0 -
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Like the Daily Mail has a "blind spot" when it comes to checking / stating all the details of migrant doing bad things, the Guardian has a similar blind spot when it comes to checking / stating all the details of migrants being deported.BannedInParis said:
Do we think this was just one article or a whole frippery of fakeness flung our way by said journal?FrancisUrquhart said:Guardian have form on this...
In a now-deleted opinion piece, Anna Maria Tuckett, an EU migrant and carer for her disabled son, wrote that she had been advised she was ‘unlikely to qualify for citizenship’ after Brexit and therefore could be deported and separated from her son. The piece also seemed to suggest that she could be denied settled status because she is a home-based carer.
If this were true, it would, of course, be a travesty. I could understand why the Guardian would run it. A faceless Home Office official taking an immigrant mother and carer from her son because of the evils of Brexit. It’s liberal clickbait.
The only thing is, the story is total rubbish.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/28/the-guardians-anti-brexit-fake-news/0 -
Am I being too simplistic but we either elect MEPs or we don't. If we do and we leave, the parliament has some spare seats. Those staying will be in the correct ratio. If we don't and we stay and then have to elect our proportion of members in the required ratio for those already elected, the only problem will be a shortage of seats, because the parliament is now larger than intended. Doesn't seem too much of a problem to me; it is just furniture rearranging. Obviously I'm missing something.OblitusSumMe said:
Well, suppose we have a short extension, didn't elect MEPs because we didn't plan on staying any longer, but still can't sort everything out and end up revoking Article 50 at the last moment in a panic. It would create an almighty mess, but some way of sorting out the details would have to be found.Sandpit said:
Oh crap. Really, different countries elect MEPs with different voting systems?OblitusSumMe said:
It's D'Hondt in Britain, but STV in Ireland, I think. Maybe different in other places. I think electoral law in various countries specifies how many MEPs are elected. I don't think it can easily be modified after the event.Sandpit said:
My thinking is that by the time the Parliament actually sits, we either will be members or we won't be - but if we are and haven't conducted the elections, then it's a big problem for the EU.
Given that MEPs are elected from closed party lists, it would be easy enough to redo the D'Hondt counting process and seat distributions once the UK's membership status is confirmed, in order to determine who is eligible from each member state to be in the Parliament. That process being easier than trying to arrange election of the UK MEPs at a few days' notice.
Just as with Northern Ireland this has the potential to be a much bigger issue down the road that we'd wish people had dealt with earlier.
In that case any 3-month extension is going to have to be totally and utterly final, and purely for the purposes of straightening the paperwork on an already agreed deal - meaning in the UK that *all* the required legislation - not just one 'meaningful' vote in the Commons - to have already passed by 29th March.
Edit: @david_herdson below thinks it would be possible to sort out afterwards.
The thing is that the potential for this mess affects the choices that people make now.0 -
The EU have already allocated (most of) the UK seats to other member states, who will be conducting the May elections on that basis.kjh said:
Am I being too simplistic but we either elect MEPs or we don't. If we do and we leave, the parliament has some spare seats. They will be in the correct ratio. If we don't and we stay and then have to elect our proportion of members in the required ratio for those already elected, the only problem will be a shortage of seats because the parliament is now larger than intended. Doesn't seem too much of a problem to me; it is just furniture rearranging. Obviously I'm missing something.OblitusSumMe said:
Well, suppose we have a short extension, didn't elect MEPs because we didn't plan on staying any longer, but still can't sort everything out and end up revoking Article 50 at the last moment in a panic. It would create an almighty mess, but some way of sorting out the details would have to be found.Sandpit said:
Oh crap. Really, different countries elect MEPs with different voting systems?OblitusSumMe said:
It's D'Hondt in Britain, but STV in Ireland, I think. Maybe different in other places. I think electoral law in various countries specifies how many MEPs are elected. I don't think it can easily be modified after the event.Sandpit said:
My thinking is that by the time the Parliament actually sits, we either will be members or we won't be - but if we are and haven't conducted the elections, then it's a big problem for the EU.
Given that MEPs are elected from closed party lists, it would be easy enough to redo the D'Hondt counting process and seat distributions once the UK's membership status is confirmed, in order to determine who is eligible from each member state to be in the Parliament. That process being easier than trying to arrange election of the UK MEPs at a few days' notice.
Just as with Northern Ireland this has the potential to be a much bigger issue down the road that we'd wish people had dealt with earlier.
In that case any 3-month extension is going to have to be totally and utterly final, and purely for the purposes of straightening the paperwork on an already agreed deal - meaning in the UK that *all* the required legislation - not just one 'meaningful' vote in the Commons - to have already passed by 29th March.
Edit: @david_herdson below thinks it would be possible to sort out afterwards.
The thing is that the potential for this mess affects the choices that people make now.
It's an almighty mess if we are somehow still members when the new Parliament reconvenes on July 2nd.0 -
I've been saying for weeks and week that the ERG should pivot to accepting her deal - conditional upon her announcing a contest to appoint her successor - and standing down as soon as that is complete.DavidL said:On one view the person responsible for the current mess was Cameron who did the right thing and resigned resulting in the change of leadership Cyclefree is talking about. The problem is that his replacement has been utterly inept and failed to deal effectively with the crisis he left behind, aggravating it in multiple ways.
So do we now need a replacement for the replacement? I think so but the timing is tricky. I would certainly want a replacement before we start any further negotiations about more important matters than the WA with the EU. The ideal, in my opinion, is for May to get the WA through Parliament and then step down before the transition talks begin. I am just not sure how this is possible. The risk is that getting the WA through, if she does, will be regarded as giving her a boost and increasing the risk of this happening again.
Neither May nor Robbins can be allowed within a hundred miles of the trade agreement talks.0 -
Hopefully we see sufficient movement on the backstop in the next couple of weeks, that that's how it plays out.MarqueeMark said:
I've been saying for weeks and week that the ERG should pivot to accepting her deal - conditional upon her announcing a contest to appoint her successor - and standing down as soon as that is complete.DavidL said:On one view the person responsible for the current mess was Cameron who did the right thing and resigned resulting in the change of leadership Cyclefree is talking about. The problem is that his replacement has been utterly inept and failed to deal effectively with the crisis he left behind, aggravating it in multiple ways.
So do we now need a replacement for the replacement? I think so but the timing is tricky. I would certainly want a replacement before we start any further negotiations about more important matters than the WA with the EU. The ideal, in my opinion, is for May to get the WA through Parliament and then step down before the transition talks begin. I am just not sure how this is possible. The risk is that getting the WA through, if she does, will be regarded as giving her a boost and increasing the risk of this happening again.
Neither May nor Robbins can be allowed within a hundred miles of the trade agreement talks.
Michael Gove and Crawford Falconer for the trade agreement negotiating team, please.0 -
I can accept all of that reasoning.Cyclefree said:
No - because, in my experience, having presided over the problem becoming very much worse, they find it hard to cast the necessary critical eye over their own previous decisions which will likely have contributed to the problem or to make the necessary staff changes. And there is also a credibility problem with the rest of the staff. if you presided over the mess, how can the staff trust you to put it right? Trust in senior management is absolutely key to achieving effective change.OblitusSumMe said:Isn't there a bit of a leadership paradox?
If the leader comes to understand the scale of the problem sufficiently to consider that they might need to leave, are they not then finally able to lead the action needed to fix the issue - and if they go there's no guarantee that their successor will have the same understanding.
There can also be the issue that they have been pushed into accepting there is a problem. That makes it hard for them to push back against the inevitable inertia etc.
What is needed is a change of tone, of mood from the top which inspires and motivates others to do the necessary. Very hard to get that when people look at a leader and say " Well, you were the one who didn't support me when I first raised this problem x years ago."
Not impossible but rare. If I look at organisations in trouble now, in my professional opinion, a change of leadership is needed. The longer it is postponed, the harder eventual recovery will be.0 -
He got a well deserved pasting in the comments to his tweet, people know him for what he is.CarlottaVance said:A rather different response to some we’ve had from Labour
https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1101154411248787456?s=210 -
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There's a law which sets a maximum number of MEPs and then distributes them between members. Because there's also a maximum number of MEPs per country some countries do better than others out of the reallocation of some of the UK's seats.kjh said:
Am I being too simplistic but we either elect MEPs or we don't. If we do and we leave, the parliament has some spare seats. Those staying will be in the correct ratio. If we don't and we stay and then have to elect our proportion of members in the required ratio for those already elected, the only problem will be a shortage of seats, because the parliament is now larger than intended. Doesn't seem too much of a problem to me; it is just furniture rearranging. Obviously I'm missing something.OblitusSumMe said:
Well, suppose we have a short extension, didn't elect MEPs because we didn't plan on staying any longer, but still can't sort everything out and end up revoking Article 50 at the last moment in a panic. It would create an almighty mess, but some way of sorting out the details would have to be found.Sandpit said:
Oh crap. Really, different countries elect MEPs with different voting systems?OblitusSumMe said:
It's D'Hondt in Britain, but STV in Ireland, I think. Maybe different in other places. I think electoral law in various countries specifies how many MEPs are elected. I don't think it can easily be modified after the event.Sandpit said:
My thinking is that by the time the Parliament actually sits, we either will be members or we won't be - but if we are and haven't conducted the elections, then it's a big problem for the EU.
Given that MEPs are elected from closed party lists, it would be easy enough to redo the D'Hondt counting process and seat distributions once the UK's membership status is confirmed, in order to determine who is eligible from each member state to be in the Parliament. That process being easier than trying to arrange election of the UK MEPs at a few days' notice.
Just as with Northern Ireland this has the potential to be a much bigger issue down the road that we'd wish people had dealt with earlier.
In that case any 3-month extension is going to have to be totally and utterly final, and purely for the purposes of straightening the paperwork on an already agreed deal - meaning in the UK that *all* the required legislation - not just one 'meaningful' vote in the Commons - to have already passed by 29th March.
Edit: @david_herdson below thinks it would be possible to sort out afterwards.
The thing is that the potential for this mess affects the choices that people make now.
Also, if we haven't elected MEPs, but stay, then there will be a delay before the Parliament can sit while we elect MEPs.0 -
That's the MP's husband, isn't it?Scott_P said:
0 -
Messed up the post!0
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Time to post this - https://www.classicfm.com/artists/andre-previn/guides/morecambe-wise-previn/
RIP.0 -
Nasal gazing?Scott_P said: 0 -
Oh for goodness I'm hopeless at this0
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Eh? I thought Eustice was voting for the WA?williamglenn said:0 -
The number of MEPs (in total and per country) is set in the Treaties, so if we are still members everyone else needs to revert to the current allocations - having already conducted the MEP elections with the new allocations.kjh said:
Still not sure of the issue (and this is a little tongue in cheek as I can imagine some bureaucrats tearing their hair out), but if we stay all the others keep their new numbers and we get our proportionate share. It is then just a bun fight for getting to sit down. I'm sure they can find some extra chairs. The parliament simply has more members but the appropriate ratio is maintained.Sandpit said:
The EU have already allocated (most of) the UK seats to other member states, who will be conducting the May elections on that basis.kjh said:
Am I being too simplistic but we either elect MEPs or we don't. If we do and we leave, the parliament has some spare seats. They will be in the correct ratio. If we don't and we stay and then have to elect our proportion of members in the required ratio for those already elected, the only problem will be a shortage of seats because the parliament is now larger than intended. Doesn't seem too much of a problem to me; it is just furniture rearranging. Obviously I'm missing something.OblitusSumMe said:Well, suppose we have a short extension, didn't elect MEPs because we didn't plan on staying any longer, but still can't sort everything out and end up revoking Article 50 at the last moment in a panic. It would create an almighty mess, but some way of sorting out the details would have to be found.
The thing is that the potential for this mess affects the choices that people make now.
It's an almighty mess if we are somehow still members when the new Parliament reconvenes on July 2nd.
I know - it won't work.
I think the answer would probably be a large box of finest EU fudge, but it is just one of the things that the EU side will be thinking about when considering a request for a short extension.
EU Parliament Press Release on the subject:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20180607IPR05241/number-of-meps-to-be-reduced-after-eu-elections-in-2019
It doesn't deal with if there's uncertainty over whether or not we will still be a member on the date of the elections (which vary slightly between member states according to their own electoral norms).0 -
Are we moving toward competitive resignations?0
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£3.47, unless you're accusing him of pocketing the VAT somehow...williamglenn said:
£2.89 and Farage wants fifty quid?Theuniondivvie said:
'tis a thing apparently.Endillion said:
In what universe is a BLUE jacket considered high visibility???GIN1138 said:Blue Vests anyone?
"Being a core marcher means you will receive an official March to Leave kit to help you on the march. These are the items you will receive on the day:
Waterproof coat
Beanie hat
Gloves
Water bottle
T-Shirt
Wristband
High visibility blue jacket"
https://www.marchtoleave.com/march
Edit: or is it just more visible than other blue jackets?
http://tinyurl.com/y4qvyevm0 -
Sorry Sandpit I really have screwed up the posting haven't I?Sandpit said:
The number of MEPs (in total and per country) is set in the Treaties, so if we are still members everyone else needs to revert to the current allocations - having already conducted the MEP elections with the new allocations.kjh said:
Still not sure of the issue (and this is a little tongue in cheek as I can imagine some bureaucrats tearing their hair out), but if we stay all the others keep their new numbers and we get our proportionate share. It is then just a bun fight for getting to sit down. I'm sure they can find some extra chairs. The parliament simply has more members but the appropriate ratio is maintained.Sandpit said:
The EU have already allocated (most of) the UK seats to other member states, who will be conducting the May elections on that basis.kjh said:
Am I being too simplistic but we either elect MEPs or we don't. If we do and we leave, the parliament has some spare seats. They will be in the correct ratio. If we don't and we stay and then have to elect our proportion of members in the required ratio for those already elected, the only problem will be a shortage of seats because the parliament is now larger than intended. Doesn't seem too much of a problem to me; it is just furniture rearranging. Obviously I'm missing something.OblitusSumMe said:
Well, suppose we have a short extension, didn't elect MEPs because we didn't plan on staying any longer, but still can't sort everything out and end up revoking Article 50 at the last moment in a panic. It would create an almighty mess, but some way of sorting out the details would have to be found.Sandpit said:
Oh crap. Really, different countries elect MEPs with different voting systems?
In that case any 3-month extension is going to have to be totally and utterly final, and purely for the purposes of straightening the paperwork on an already agreed deal - meaning in the UK that *all* the required legislation - not just one 'meaningful' vote in the Commons - to have already passed by 29th March.
Edit: @david_herdson below thinks it would be possible to sort out afterwards.
The thing is that the potential for this mess affects the choices that people make now.
It's an almighty mess if we are somehow still members when the new Parliament reconvenes on July 2nd.
I know - it won't work.
I think the answer would probably be a large box of finest EU fudge, but it is just one of the things that the EU side will be thinking about when considering a request for a short extension.0 -
So Boris is prepared to bring the country down with him, if it brings him one last shot at the crown.
Reminds me of his series on the most unscrupulous roman emperors, which he always seemed more fascinated by than the glories of Athens.0 -
Completely O/T but my opponent in a case has just asked the Court for more time because of an issue with his expert witness. He was good enough to send on her email which (very slightly edited) is as follows:
"Very sorry but I am at my GMC Hearing in [omitted] and they eventually gave down their findings on the Facts at 5.30. They have found me guilty of all 17 charges so I do not expect you will wish me to proceed with the report?
We are awaiting their Findings on Impairment and Sanction over the next day or so
I will let you know of the final recommendations if they get round to them on Wednesday "
Best excuse I have seen for a delay for a while.0 -
Well they’re not promising to deliver the goods to people, only to make them available to collect at the marching stations, and the website classes the £50 as a donation.Endillion said:
£3.47, unless you're accusing him of pocketing the VAT somehow...williamglenn said:
£2.89 and Farage wants fifty quid?Theuniondivvie said:
'tis a thing apparently.Endillion said:
In what universe is a BLUE jacket considered high visibility???GIN1138 said:Blue Vests anyone?
"Being a core marcher means you will receive an official March to Leave kit to help you on the march. These are the items you will receive on the day:
Waterproof coat
Beanie hat
Gloves
Water bottle
T-Shirt
Wristband
High visibility blue jacket"
https://www.marchtoleave.com/march
Edit: or is it just more visible than other blue jackets?
http://tinyurl.com/y4qvyevm0 -
I think it's sorted now. Need to make sure there's the same number of open and closed blockquotes in the whole post.kjh said:
Sorry Sandpit I really have screwed up the posting haven't I?Sandpit said:
The number of MEPs (in total and per country) is set in the Treaties, so if we are still members everyone else needs to revert to the current allocations - having already conducted the MEP elections with the new allocations.kjh said:
Still not sure of the issue (and this is a little tongue in cheek as I can imagine some bureaucrats tearing their hair out), but if we stay all the others keep their new numbers and we get our proportionate share. It is then just a bun fight for getting to sit down. I'm sure they can find some extra chairs. The parliament simply has more members but the appropriate ratio is maintained.Sandpit said:
The EU have already allocated (most of) the UK seats to other member states, who will be conducting the May elections on that basis.kjh said:
Am I being too simplistic but we either elect MEPs or we don't. If we do and we leave, the parliament has some spare seats. They will be in the correct ratio. If we don't and we stay and then have to elect our proportion of members in the required ratio for those already elected, the only problem will be a shortage of seats because the parliament is now larger than intended. Doesn't seem too much of a problem to me; it is just furniture rearranging. Obviously I'm missing something.OblitusSumMe said:
Well, suppose we have a short extension, didn't elect MEPs because we didn't plan on staying any longer, but still can't sort everything out and end up revoking Article 50 at the last moment in a panic. It would create an almighty mess, but some way of sorting out the details would have to be found.Sandpit said:
Oh crap. Really, different countries elect MEPs with different voting systems?
In that case any 3-month extension is going to have to be totally and utterly final, and purely for the purposes of straightening the paperwork on an already agreed deal - meaning in the UK that *all* the required legislation - not just one 'meaningful' vote in the Commons - to have already passed by 29th March.
Edit: @david_herdson below thinks it would be possible to sort out afterwards.
The thing is that the potential for this mess affects the choices that people make now.
It's an almighty mess if we are somehow still members when the new Parliament reconvenes on July 2nd.
I know - it won't work.
I think the answer would probably be a large box of finest EU fudge, but it is just one of the things that the EU side will be thinking about when considering a request for a short extension.0 -
LOL. Your opponent has probably had better days at work!DavidL said:Completely O/T but my opponent in a case has just asked the Court for more time because of an issue with his expert witness. He was good enough to send on her email which (very slightly edited) is as follows:
"Very sorry but I am at my GMC Hearing in [omitted] and they eventually gave down their findings on the Facts at 5.30. They have found me guilty of all 17 charges so I do not expect you will wish me to proceed with the report?
We are awaiting their Findings on Impairment and Sanction over the next day or so
I will let you know of the final recommendations if they get round to them on Wednesday "
Best excuse I have seen for a delay for a while.0 -
If we are it would signal the final disintegration of the May Ministry.IanB2 said:Are we moving toward competitive resignations?
0 -
I won't comment on the Brexity stuff in this context, but I've had frequent dealings with George Eustice professionally and found him an excellent Minister - keen on his subject, knowledgeable but open to constructive ideas. So personally I'm sorry to see him go.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Boris will never be PM - he's yesterday's prince.WhisperingOracle said:So Boris is prepared to bring the country down with him, if it brings him one last shot at the crown.
0 -
Almost the only good thing to come out of the whole sorry Brexit escapade (pending collapse of the two party system) is Boris's descent from favoured son to busted flush.WhisperingOracle said:So Boris is prepared to bring the country down with him, if it brings him one last shot at the crown.
Reminds me of his series on the most unscrupulous roman emperors, which he always seemed more fascinated by than the glories of Athens.
0 -
I agree - but it's what he's aiming for, and how that might assist no-deal, that worries me.TGOHF said:
Boris will never be PM - he's yesterday's prince.WhisperingOracle said:So Boris is prepared to bring the country down with him, if it brings him one last shot at the crown.
0 -
Fair play Nick. You didn't have to say that, and it's good to see some cross-party appreciation in what's becoming an increasingly polarised political environment.NickPalmer said:
I won't comment on the Brexity stuff in this context, but I've had frequent dealings with George Eustice professionally and found him an excellent Minister - keen on his subject, knowledgeable but open to constructive ideas. So personally I'm sorry to see him go.CarlottaVance said:
0 -
0
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I think the "March to leave" website sums up the issues - the picture presented is of a nice walk on a rural path in the sunlit uplands. The reality is going to be lorries passing within a foot of yourself on a busy A road.0
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I planned a long circular walk with the dog recently where a short stretch of A road was needed to complete the loop. As it was only a few hundred yards back to the parked car, it didn't seem like a big deal, until I arrived and realised there was no verge and we'd be in the road with a continual stream of heavy traffic passing within inches of us. We did most of it at a sprint when there seemed to be gaps in the traffic; there's no way I would do anything like that again.Pulpstar said:I think the "March to leave" website sums up the issues - the picture presented is of a nice walk on a rural path in the sunlit uplands. The reality is going to be lorries passing within a foot of yourself on a busy A road.
0 -
Referring to the way some Indians were executed by the British after the 1857 rebellion was suppressed, perhaps?williamglenn said:“Literally over the barrel of a gun”
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1101168555129597952?s=210 -
Government minister caught mis-using "literally"williamglenn said:“Literally over the barrel of a gun”
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1101168555129597952?s=210 -
Under the direction of Prime Minister Geoffrey Cox, I'm sure they'd get a workable arrangement....Sandpit said:
Hopefully we see sufficient movement on the backstop in the next couple of weeks, that that's how it plays out.MarqueeMark said:
I've been saying for weeks and week that the ERG should pivot to accepting her deal - conditional upon her announcing a contest to appoint her successor - and standing down as soon as that is complete.DavidL said:On one view the person responsible for the current mess was Cameron who did the right thing and resigned resulting in the change of leadership Cyclefree is talking about. The problem is that his replacement has been utterly inept and failed to deal effectively with the crisis he left behind, aggravating it in multiple ways.
So do we now need a replacement for the replacement? I think so but the timing is tricky. I would certainly want a replacement before we start any further negotiations about more important matters than the WA with the EU. The ideal, in my opinion, is for May to get the WA through Parliament and then step down before the transition talks begin. I am just not sure how this is possible. The risk is that getting the WA through, if she does, will be regarded as giving her a boost and increasing the risk of this happening again.
Neither May nor Robbins can be allowed within a hundred miles of the trade agreement talks.
Michael Gove and Crawford Falconer for the trade agreement negotiating team, please.0 -
And mixing metaphors. You can be looking down the barrel of a gun, or over a barrel.IanB2 said:
Government minister caught mis-using "literally"williamglenn said:“Literally over the barrel of a gun”
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1101168555129597952?s=210 -
Mr. Glenn, with May's ineptitude a bird in the hand gathers no moss.0
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Its one of the more tedious aspects of this that there is some equating Brexi to Boris..WhisperingOracle said:
I agree - but it's what he's aiming for, and how that might assist no-deal, that worries me.TGOHF said:
Boris will never be PM - he's yesterday's prince.WhisperingOracle said:So Boris is prepared to bring the country down with him, if it brings him one last shot at the crown.
One is a good idea which will transform the country. The other is a blonde shagger ..0 -
Small bore.rpjs said:williamglenn said:“Literally over the barrel of a gun”
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1101168555129597952?s=210 -
It would be a terrible shame if one of those lorries lost control and wiped out Farage and Tice !Pulpstar said:I think the "March to leave" website sums up the issues - the picture presented is of a nice walk on a rural path in the sunlit uplands. The reality is going to be lorries passing within a foot of yourself on a busy A road.
0 -
A fitting punishment for the Brexit mutineers.rpjs said:
Referring to the way some Indians were executed by the British after the 1857 rebellion was suppressed, perhaps?williamglenn said:“Literally over the barrel of a gun”
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1101168555129597952?s=21
Actually the kerfuffle over which kind of fat was used in the sepoys' cartridges has all the hallmarks of a Daily Mail EU scare story.0 -
And people say the leavers are the nasty ones, eh?nico67 said:
It would be a terrible shame if one of those lorries lost control and wiped out Farage and Tice !Pulpstar said:I think the "March to leave" website sums up the issues - the picture presented is of a nice walk on a rural path in the sunlit uplands. The reality is going to be lorries passing within a foot of yourself on a busy A road.
0 -
I assume you are of the opinion that India would be much better if it had stayed Under the control of the East India CompanyTheuniondivvie said:
A fitting punishment for the Brexit mutineers.rpjs said:
Referring to the way some Indians were executed by the British after the 1857 rebellion was suppressed, perhaps?williamglenn said:“Literally over the barrel of a gun”
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1101168555129597952?s=21
Actually the kerfuffle over which kind of fat was used in the sepoys' cartridges has all the hallmarks of a Daily Mail EU scare story.0 -
What do you want me to say . I’d be heartbroken and say a prayer . Personally I couldn’t care less. Both took part in a campaign to vilify immigrants and are hate mongers . Good riddance to bad rubbish.AnotherEngineer said:
And people say the leavers are the nasty ones, eh?nico67 said:
It would be a terrible shame if one of those lorries lost control and wiped out Farage and Tice !Pulpstar said:I think the "March to leave" website sums up the issues - the picture presented is of a nice walk on a rural path in the sunlit uplands. The reality is going to be lorries passing within a foot of yourself on a busy A road.
0 -
Very interesting header. What strikes me is that despite the usual focus on systems and structures and procedures it is usually the bad behaviour of people - and a toxic culture which enables and rewards such behaviour - that is the root cause of scandals in organizations and sectors. Certainly this was the case in the one that I have direct personal experience of from the inside - the banking crash of 07/08.0
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I don't want to get into the wrongs and rights of the colonial period, but a question: was India a single entity before the EIC, was it a series of sometimes-warring kingdoms, or was it both?Richard_Tyndall said:
I assume you are of the opinion that India would be much better if it had stayed Under the control of the East India CompanyTheuniondivvie said:
A fitting punishment for the Brexit mutineers.rpjs said:
Referring to the way some Indians were executed by the British after the 1857 rebellion was suppressed, perhaps?williamglenn said:“Literally over the barrel of a gun”
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1101168555129597952?s=21
Actually the kerfuffle over which kind of fat was used in the sepoys' cartridges has all the hallmarks of a Daily Mail EU scare story.0
