Good to hear that evidence is being sought to prosecute them.
I see in todays news that Non EU immigration from Asia and Africa is up, matching the drop in EU immigration. Be careful what you wish for, Britain will become less European in many ways as a result of Brexit.
Serious question. How is that a problem? England (or Britain if that is your bag) is already a huge lovely rock polisher off different cultures all steadily rubbing the edges of each other to make something new, shiny and classically English. Why should it matter where those new pebbles come from?
Apologies I am a geologist and I am pushing the 'rocky' metaphor a bit.
The referendum was won by whipping up untrue fears of vast numbers of Muslims descending on Britain.
Except that muslim voters were promised that after Brexit their families would get priority over Poles and Romanians
Good to hear that evidence is being sought to prosecute them.
I see in todays news that Non EU immigration from Asia and Africa is up, matching the drop in EU immigration. Be careful what you wish for, Britain will become less European in many ways as a result of Brexit.
Serious question. How is that a problem? England (or Britain if that is your bag) is already a huge lovely rock polisher off different cultures all steadily rubbing the edges of each other to make something new, shiny and classically English. Why should it matter where those new pebbles come from?
Apologies I am a geologist and I am pushing the 'rocky' metaphor a bit.
I suspect it is a problem for many, indeed @tykelohnno often expresses that opinion.
I live in Leicester, the first city in the country where everyone is in a minority. I am pretty comfortable, and enjoy that diversity. I understand though that it is scary for some socially conservative people though.
I would say the socioeconomic class of immigrants is more important than their race in how they are regarded.
There seems to be little hostility to affluent, educated, skilled immigrants.
I think that might be broadly true, quite a few houses on the street I grew up in were owned by ex-Ugandan asian families iirc. All lawyers, doctors and so forth..
I know its tangential to the story, but I'm staggered at how ridiculously popular pugs are. Also french bulldogs and other sinfully ugly and malbred dogs.
I wonder if its a result of Willy from EastEnders.
Good to hear that evidence is being sought to prosecute them.
I see in todays news that Non EU immigration from Asia and Africa is up, matching the drop in EU immigration. Be careful what you wish for, Britain will become less European in many ways as a result of Brexit.
Serious question. How is that a problem? England (or Britain if that is your bag) is already a huge lovely rock polisher off different cultures all steadily rubbing the edges of each other to make something new, shiny and classically English. Why should it matter where those new pebbles come from?
Apologies I am a geologist and I am pushing the 'rocky' metaphor a bit.
Its not where they come from which matters but who they are.
We should be treating migration on an individual basis.
Yep. Absolutely on board with that. I was just confused by Foxy's apparent belief that it was better to have migrants from Europe than from anywhere else in the world.
No, my view is more nuanced than that. It is about culture. European migrants have been coming to Britain and have such a common culture that they have historically integrated well, whether Saxons, Normans, Huegenots (paging Nigel Farage), Ashkenazi Jews, Belgian refugees in 1918, Polish in 1940s, Italians in the 1950s etc etc. Royal Family, Michael Portillo, Michael Howard, Ed Miliband all included.
Non European migrants can also integrate well, particularly communities that share much of that cultre and willingness to become part of the British tapestry, but some clearly do find that more difficult, such as Ms Begum of ISIS, or @Tykejohnnos disagreeable neighbours.
There has been a long history of isolated issues with some groups of immigrants - whether it is Catholic priests from Europe in the 16th century or radical Islamists from the Middle East in the 21st century. But that is no reason to prefer one national grouping over another when it comes to welcoming migrants. I do find something faintly unsavoury about the claims that Europeans make better immigrants than non Europeans because of some perceived cultural affinities. Frankly I don't recognise those affinities and don't think we are any better off having French or Italian immigrants compared to Fijian or Iranian ones.
Good to hear that evidence is being sought to prosecute them.
I see in todays news that Non EU immigration from Asia and Africa is up, matching the drop in EU immigration. Be careful what you wish for, Britain will become less European in many ways as a result of Brexit.
Serious question. How is that a problem? England (or Britain if that is your bag) is already a huge lovely rock polisher off different cultures all steadily rubbing the edges of each other to make something new, shiny and classically English. Why should it matter where those new pebbles come from?
Apologies I am a geologist and I am pushing the 'rocky' metaphor a bit.
The referendum was won by whipping up untrue fears of vast numbers of Muslims descending on Britain.
You are a stuck record Alastair. No matter how many times you repeat these claims you are still singing 'Highway to Hell' in Esperanto.
In fact as punishment for your stuck record act you are now condemned to watch this.
Good to hear that evidence is being sought to prosecute them.
I see in todays news that Non EU immigration from Asia and Africa is up, matching the drop in EU immigration. Be careful what you wish for, Britain will become less European in many ways as a result of Brexit.
Serious question. How is that a problem? England (or Britain if that is your bag) is already a huge lovely rock polisher off different cultures all steadily rubbing the edges of each other to make something new, shiny and classically English. Why should it matter where those new pebbles come from?
Apologies I am a geologist and I am pushing the 'rocky' metaphor a bit.
I suspect it is a problem for many, indeed @tykelohnno often expresses that opinion.
I live in Leicester, the first city in the country where everyone is in a minority. I am pretty comfortable, and enjoy that diversity. I understand though that it is scary for some socially conservative people though.
I would say the socioeconomic class of immigrants is more important than their race in how they are regarded.
There seems to be little hostility to affluent, educated, skilled immigrants.
I think that might be broadly true, quite a few houses on the street I grew up in were owned by ex-Ugandan asian families iirc. All lawyers, doctors and so forth..
Lovely people except for one - Yasmin Alibhai-Brown ;-)
Good to hear that evidence is being sought to prosecute them.
I see in todays news that Non EU immigration from Asia and Africa is up, matching the drop in EU immigration. Be careful what you wish for, Britain will become less European in many ways as a result of Brexit.
Didn't have you down as a racist, Foxy
I don't think I am, just pointing out that the increase in Non EU immigration, most of which comes from the Subcontinent, Middle East and Africa, will change this country significantly.
To me it is not just a question of "brightest and best" but also ability to culturally assimilate to the majority population. This includes more than language, but also religion, attitude to women and democracy etc. The Fillipinos, East African Asians and Africans that I work with integrate well.
There’s a great deal of commentary by omission here, isn’t there.
Good to hear that evidence is being sought to prosecute them.
I see in todays news that Non EU immigration from Asia and Africa is up, matching the drop in EU immigration. Be careful what you wish for, Britain will become less European in many ways as a result of Brexit.
Serious question. How is that a problem? England (or Britain if that is your bag) is already a huge lovely rock polisher off different cultures all steadily rubbing the edges of each other to make something new, shiny and classically English. Why should it matter where those new pebbles come from?
Apologies I am a geologist and I am pushing the 'rocky' metaphor a bit.
The referendum was won by whipping up untrue fears of vast numbers of Muslims descending on Britain.
Except that muslim voters were promised that after Brexit their families would get priority over Poles and Romanians
The official Out campaign is drawing up leaflets aimed at Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu speakers arguing that a British exit from the EU would help to stem the flow of Eastern Europeans into the UK — allowing more incomers from Commonwealth countries to take their place.
Good to hear that evidence is being sought to prosecute them.
I see in todays news that Non EU immigration from Asia and Africa is up, matching the drop in EU immigration. Be careful what you wish for, Britain will become less European in many ways as a result of Brexit.
Serious question. How is that a problem? England (or Britain if that is your bag) is already a huge lovely rock polisher off different cultures all steadily rubbing the edges of each other to make something new, shiny and classically English. Why should it matter where those new pebbles come from?
Apologies I am a geologist and I am pushing the 'rocky' metaphor a bit.
I suspect it is a problem for many, indeed @tykelohnno often expresses that opinion.
I live in Leicester, the first city in the country where everyone is in a minority. I am pretty comfortable, and enjoy that diversity. I understand though that it is scary for some socially conservative people though.
The complaint, as it’s been expressed to a relative, is that nobody asked the population if they wanted to see a fundamental reimagining of their city. You’re comfortable with how it’s worked out, and perhaps it has, but consent is important.
RE: India. Ashoka ruled over pretty much as big an area as the Moghuls and the British did in 3rd Century BCE. He placed a series of obelisks around explaining the Laws. Ironically he was totally forgotten until Imperial surveyors found them and translated them. I also read once, though can't recall where, that India accounted for c 25% of World GDP when Europeans arrived.
Referring to the way some Indians were executed by the British after the 1857 rebellion was suppressed, perhaps?
A fitting punishment for the Brexit mutineers.
Actually the kerfuffle over which kind of fat was used in the sepoys' cartridges has all the hallmarks of a Daily Mail EU scare story.
I assume you are of the opinion that India would be much better if it had stayed Under the control of the East India Company
I don't want to get into the wrongs and rights of the colonial period, but a question: was India a single entity before the EIC, was it a series of sometimes-warring kingdoms, or was it both?
Series of usually warring kingdoms
That gives the impression that none of them were of global significance, whereas, at one point before the industrial revolution, the Mogul Empire was the world's largest economy on the back of agriculture and manufacturing and, at its greatest extent, was larger than modern day India.
Yes but the phrasing “before the EIC” implies immediately before
The EIC initially was operating in India while the Mogul Empire was at its peak.
Mogul Empire (1526-1857), peak years 1556-1707 EIC 1612-1757
In fact, the Indian Rebellion against the EIC in 1857 was partially about restoring the Mogul Emperor.
Genuine question to someone born in India. If vast majority of Kashmir isn’t Hindu, why is India so keen on it?
Two reasons (I think):
1) The Nehru-Gandhi family have roots in Kashmir
2) It's to prove that a Muslim majority area can be governed as part of India (invalidating Jinnah's "Two-Nation" hypothesis). But there was a double-standard in 1948: Hyderabad was ruled by a Muslim raja (or "Nizam"), despite being in southern India. He ruled over a Hindu majority, but refused to join in 1947, so the following year India just invaded. Being several hundred miles from the nearest Pakistani territory, Hyderabad was quickly annexed to India.
RE: India. Ashoka ruled over pretty much as big an area as the Moghuls and the British did in 3rd Century BCE. He placed a series of obelisks around explaining the Laws. Ironically he was totally forgotten until Imperial surveyors found them and translated them. I also read once, though can't recall where, that India accounted for c 25% of World GDP when Europeans arrived.
I've read that as well.
Likewise China had a surprisingly high proportion of world GDP in the 19th century.
RE: India. Ashoka ruled over pretty much as big an area as the Moghuls and the British did in 3rd Century BCE. He placed a series of obelisks around explaining the Laws. Ironically he was totally forgotten until Imperial surveyors found them and translated them. I also read once, though can't recall where, that India accounted for c 25% of World GDP when Europeans arrived.
That was the point I was making. The EIC, along with the Dutch and French equivalents, arrived in India precisely because India was the world economic power at that time (spices and manufacturing, particularly textiles), and it was a result of India's economic power that EIC was able to become the world's biggest trading entity.
Good to hear that evidence is being sought to prosecute them.
I see in todays news that Non EU immigration from Asia and Africa is up, matching the drop in EU immigration. Be careful what you wish for, Britain will become less European in many ways as a result of Brexit.
Serious question. How is that a problem? England (or Britain if that is your bag) is already a huge lovely rock polisher off different cultures all steadily rubbing the edges of each other to make something new, shiny and classically English. Why should it matter where those new pebbles come from?
Apologies I am a geologist and I am pushing the 'rocky' metaphor a bit.
The referendum was won by whipping up untrue fears of vast numbers of Muslims descending on Britain.
Except that muslim voters were promised that after Brexit their families would get priority over Poles and Romanians
The official Out campaign is drawing up leaflets aimed at Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu speakers arguing that a British exit from the EU would help to stem the flow of Eastern Europeans into the UK — allowing more incomers from Commonwealth countries to take their place.
Well well well,positive on immigration from the leave side.
Comments
NEW THREAD
The only thing missing was a reference to that most mendacious of official phrases - "Lessons have been learned".
The official Out campaign is drawing up leaflets aimed at Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu speakers arguing that a British exit from the EU would help to stem the flow of Eastern Europeans into the UK — allowing more incomers from Commonwealth countries to take their place.
I also read once, though can't recall where, that India accounted for c 25% of World GDP when Europeans arrived.
1) The Nehru-Gandhi family have roots in Kashmir
2) It's to prove that a Muslim majority area can be governed as part of India (invalidating Jinnah's "Two-Nation" hypothesis). But there was a double-standard in 1948: Hyderabad was ruled by a Muslim raja (or "Nizam"), despite being in southern India. He ruled over a Hindu majority, but refused to join in 1947, so the following year India just invaded. Being several hundred miles from the nearest Pakistani territory, Hyderabad was quickly annexed to India.
Likewise China had a surprisingly high proportion of world GDP in the 19th century.
New Thread