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The extension to Art 50 is now almost certain to happen, the ERG will them be forced to either accept May's Deal or face the risk of BINO or EUref2 and no Brexit at all given May has cleverly ensured Parliament will also formally vote down No Deal toodixiedean said:
Which is why there is no chance of the DUP/ERG voting in favour on the 12th. Because we still crash out on 29th. They MAY give in and vote in favour IF an extension is voted for.tpfkar said:3-1? You must be joking right. We need 115 MPs who voted against last time to switch. Do we have any names? I think there may be a few on the Labour side. I can see Snell, Mann, Flint, Nandy and Laura Smith switching. There's 5. Can anyone supply the other 110?
I'd be more interested in the chances of the deal losing by over 100 votes again. People are too entrenched, and I can't see the DUP evangelising for the deal, which is what would be needed to get it over the line.
What I am worried about is MPs getting to the extension vote, and it still not passing due to a three way split between no extension, short extension and long extension. So if parliament votes against the Deal, then against No Deal, then against an extension, what the heck happens next?
Which is the sequence of events I fear TM is hoping for. To bring the MV back a third time with an actual course of action as an alternative.
It is a reckless, reckless gamble of an almost unforgivable magnitude.0 -
I don't care who de Valera, it's Cosgrave we need right now.HYUFD said:
Who is Leave Means Leave's De Valera to May or Gove's Collins?williamglenn said:Nice to see Remain’s allies are keeping up their good work.
https://twitter.com/leavemnsleave/status/1100313986615123968?s=210 -
Only gay/straight? And Chriistian/Muslim or Jewish?AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
#buddhistbisexualerasure0 -
I’m apparently more privileged than 76% of others, only being a committed atheist softens my score against a complete rinse. Is it really true that devout Christianity is an avenue to privilege? In my line of work religiousity is probably seen as a disadvantage, if anything.RobD said:
Is dealing with Vanilla a privilege these days?rcs1000 said:
I'm only more privileged that 61% of others, which sounds implausibly low.AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com0 -
It reads like the executive summary of a far longer and more comprehensive document. For all our sakes, I hope it is.Richard_Nabavi said:The government's No Deal impact report is most unimpressive. There's really not much to it. Frankly I could have written that with just a few hours' internet searching to fill in some of the figures.
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Richard_Nabavi said:
That's hilarious!williamglenn said:Nice to see Remain’s allies are keeping up their good work.
https://twitter.com/leavemnsleave/status/1100313986615123968?s=21
I’ll admit to now being completely baffled. Are these no marks campaigning to make sure the European elections ARE held? Why??0 -
Italian workers aren't going to volunteer to be paid in Nova Lira instead of Euros.rcs1000 said:
I agree with their Italian analysis too. Italy should never have joined the Euro, and then should have left in 2010/11.Sean_F said:
I think I'd agree, although I think they're also spot on about Italy,rcs1000 said:
Hmmmmm: not convinced that:Sean_F said:
Centre for European Policyrcs1000 said:
Interesting: who produced the analysis?Sean_F said:
FPT the study of the impact of the Euro on individual countries. IMO, it suggests that GDP per head would be about 11% higher in Italy, and 6% higher in France, had they remained outside the Euro.
https://www.cep.eu/en/eu-topics/details/cep/20-years-of-the-euro-winners-and-losers.html
1. Greece has been a Euro benificiary
2. Spain has been a Euro loser
If you look at employment compared to 1/1/99, Spain now has 40% more people employed than then, while Greece has something like 10% less.
I would argue that Spain's economy has probably grown quicker than it would have done out of the Euro, but only because it had incredibly painful reform forced on them. And that Greece has performed markedly worse, because it allowed completely unsustainable debts to be run up.
Italy's GDP has grown at 0.5% p.a., since 1999, which has just about kept pace with population growth.
The problem they have is that every day they stay, makes getting out more painful.0 -
👍👍👍_Anazina_ said:
You Reds 👍MarqueeMark said:
The Brian Clough Trophy lives in Nottingham._Anazina_ said:
It’s a difficult time for Derby folk, have a heart.Scrapheap_as_was said:I see the wingnut in chief from Derby is unpopular with his Nottingham colleague... what could be done to stop such in-fighting?
https://twitter.com/LilianGreenwood/status/1100420369687683075
Forest 1
Derby 0
Just rejoice at that news.....0 -
wingnut in chief gets a little telling off... almost as quickly as Forest scored against his beloved Venezuela / Derby.
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1100459016814321665
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/11004601294498447370 -
It is a point though that the focus of the TIG on Brexit has quite significantly narrowed their potential appeal to disillusioned working class Leave voters who are crying out for some alternative other than full on Corbynism with all its extremist baggage. With the benefit of hindsight, that narrow focus looks to me like a mistake.rottenborough said:There was probably a brief moment when some of the TIG wondered whether they had done the right thing when Jezza started talking about a 2nd vote.
They can relax. Turns out that was all crap and many members of the party have spent the day ramming up the anti-jew, pro-hozbollah stuff and tweeting about coups in venezuela (presumably run by the Rothschilds etc etc).
Tom Harris has quite a good take on it here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/21/independent-group-will-doomed-without-vision-life-brexit/
"But it would be a pity to ignore the largely working class communities who, when they were offered a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to kick the establishment elite (as they saw it), took it. Surely they are as entitled to a non-extreme political alternative as anyone else? If TIG doesn’t want to be seen as part of the political establishment, it should start acting like it’s not - starting with their vision for life after the EU, and after we have taken back control of our own immigration policy. Demanding ‘business as usual’ is not going to cut it for any mould-breaking party."0 -
Bloody aphobes.dixiedean said:
Only gay/straight? And Chriistian/Muslim or Jewish?AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
#buddhistbisexualerasure
And what about those who speak English as their fifth language? (I teach one girl who speaks Persian, Farsi. Arabic and French as her first languages - and her English is still nearly as good as mine!)
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They seem to spend their entire time assiduously searching for something EU-related which they can moan about. A curious hobby, but it takes all sorts, I suppose._Anazina_ said:Richard_Nabavi said:
That's hilarious!williamglenn said:Nice to see Remain’s allies are keeping up their good work.
https://twitter.com/leavemnsleave/status/1100313986615123968?s=21
I’ll admit to now being completely baffled. Are these no marks campaigning to make sure the European elections ARE held? Why??0 -
I don't think that its workers that are the problem. I think it's retirees and savers.No_Offence_Alan said:
Italian workers aren't going to volunteer to be paid in Nova Lira instead of Euros.rcs1000 said:
I agree with their Italian analysis too. Italy should never have joined the Euro, and then should have left in 2010/11.Sean_F said:
I think I'd agree, although I think they're also spot on about Italy,rcs1000 said:
Hmmmmm: not convinced that:Sean_F said:
Centre for European Policyrcs1000 said:
Interesting: who produced the analysis?Sean_F said:
FPT the study of the impact of the Euro on individual countries. IMO, it suggests that GDP per head would be about 11% higher in Italy, and 6% higher in France, had they remained outside the Euro.
https://www.cep.eu/en/eu-topics/details/cep/20-years-of-the-euro-winners-and-losers.html
1. Greece has been a Euro benificiary
2. Spain has been a Euro loser
If you look at employment compared to 1/1/99, Spain now has 40% more people employed than then, while Greece has something like 10% less.
I would argue that Spain's economy has probably grown quicker than it would have done out of the Euro, but only because it had incredibly painful reform forced on them. And that Greece has performed markedly worse, because it allowed completely unsustainable debts to be run up.
Italy's GDP has grown at 0.5% p.a., since 1999, which has just about kept pace with population growth.
The problem they have is that every day they stay, makes getting out more painful.
Workers' pay can rise with inflation. Money in bank accounts, or paid out of underfunded pension pots cannot.0 -
It just shows up intersectionality for the nonsense it is. It is nothing more than a political agenda - no basis in science, reality or anything else credible.dixiedean said:
Only gay/straight? And Chriistian/Muslim or Jewish?AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
#buddhistbisexualerasure0 -
Nobody on Earth is suggesting a return to BR, it’s the straw man debating tool of primary school standard. Nobody can answer the question: What is franchising for? There are better models out there. And the most popular rail network in the UK is nationalised.JosiasJessop said:
Thanks for posting that. It'll be interesting to see where he goes with it: from that snippet, it doesn't sound like he thinks a return to BR is the solution. If so, I am not surprised.Verulamius said:Could this see the end of the current rail franchising regime?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rail-review-chair-says-franchising-cannot-continue-in-its-current-form
Keith Williams, independent chair of the first ‘root and branch’ Rail Review to be supported by government, will today (26 February 2019) announce that the rail franchising system cannot continue in the way it is now.
In the George Bradshaw Address, Keith Williams is expected to say:
I have heard a great deal about the franchising model….driving growth in passengers and benefits to services. But with this growth the needs of passengers have changed whilst many of the basic elements of our rail system have not kept pace.
Put bluntly, franchising cannot continue the way it is today. It is no longer delivering clear benefits for either taxpayers and farepayers.
I believe that for the railway to be successful it needs to put passengers at its heart.
We need to recognise that there is unlikely to be a ‘one size fits all’ solution which will work for every part of the country and all types of passenger.
Although I do have concerns this review will go the same way as the other reviews we've had over the years, e.g. Hansford.0 -
Mrs Gove seems to be hoping for the Bobby Ewing solution to Brexit.
https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/11004400450209996800 -
Ask Jeremy Corbyn. He's forgotten all the things he said about Chavez, Hezbollah, Hamas, Russia, Iran, the Jews, the manifestos he stood for election on, Blair, Iraq...williamglenn said:Mrs Gove seems to be hoping for the Bobby Ewing solution to Brexit.
https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/11004400450209996800 -
Having married Michael Gove is a more pressing need for the MiB zapper thing, surely?williamglenn said:Mrs Gove seems to be hoping for the Bobby Ewing solution to Brexit.
https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/11004400450209996800 -
Yes, I agree with you Foxy, and Richard.Foxy said:
This is a board of intelligent and well informed folk across the political spectrum often with niche insights. I think it fair to say that nobody is sure what happens next or what the outcome will be.Richard_Nabavi said:Having thought about how today's events affect the probabilities of various outcomes, such as leaving on time with a deal, leaving without a deal, or extending A50 for a referendum, I am now prepared to share my considered conclusion with you all: I haven't the faintest idea.
4 weeks to go and we are all in the fog. I am not convinced that either MPs or Civil Service are any better informed.
It reminds me in some respects of the way WW1 started. Few intended it, and even fewer foresaw the consequences. It happened in large part because events had a certain logic of their own which became unstoppable.
One French official remarked recently that his country was preparing for a No Deal Brexit, even though no Government wanted it, because as he put it 'Leave happened by accident, and there's no reason why No Deal cannot happen by accident too.'
It was said with some sadness, Could happen though.0 -
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Leave this loontry?TheScreamingEagles said:So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
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When you want to abuse someone, but it isn't urgent enough to pay for a first class stamp.TheScreamingEagles said:So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/11004221695893708800 -
Can't be SeanT, the regularity of the handwriting suggests the writer was just unhinged, not pissed.TheScreamingEagles said:So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/11004221695893708800 -
It is all well and good Labour saying that Williamson can't invite Jackie Walker because she is under 'investigation' because of her anti-semitism.
But where is the acknowledgement that Corbyn shouldn't have invited all the terrorist supporters that he has hosted in Westminster??0 -
It is so sad that someone hates like that. Troubled mindTheScreamingEagles said:So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/11004221695893708800 -
In fairness Neil Kinnock said it high, loud and repeatedly at the time.oxfordsimon said:It is all well and good Labour saying that Williamson can't invite Jackie Walker because she is under 'investigation' because of her anti-semitism.
But where is the acknowledgement that Corbyn shouldn't have invited all the terrorist supporters that he has hosted in Westminster??0 -
I get 11, apparently more privileged than 82%. Despite being born in a homeless shelter, and brought up on a sink estate for my formative years.rcs1000 said:
I'm only more privileged that 61% of others, which sounds implausibly low.AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com0 -
😂MarqueeMark said:
Having married Michael Gove is a more pressing need for the MiB zapper thing, surely?williamglenn said:Mrs Gove seems to be hoping for the Bobby Ewing solution to Brexit.
https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/11004400450209996800 -
If you are talking about London Underground it is also running a £1 billion deficit._Anazina_ said:
Nobody on Earth is suggesting a return to BR, it’s the straw man debating tool of primary school standard. Nobody can answer the question: What is franchising for? There are better models out there. And the most popular rail network in the UK is nationalised.JosiasJessop said:
Thanks for posting that. It'll be interesting to see where he goes with it: from that snippet, it doesn't sound like he thinks a return to BR is the solution. If so, I am not surprised.Verulamius said:Could this see the end of the current rail franchising regime?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rail-review-chair-says-franchising-cannot-continue-in-its-current-form
Keith Williams, independent chair of the first ‘root and branch’ Rail Review to be supported by government, will today (26 February 2019) announce that the rail franchising system cannot continue in the way it is now.
In the George Bradshaw Address, Keith Williams is expected to say:
I have heard a great deal about the franchising model….driving growth in passengers and benefits to services. But with this growth the needs of passengers have changed whilst many of the basic elements of our rail system have not kept pace.
Put bluntly, franchising cannot continue the way it is today. It is no longer delivering clear benefits for either taxpayers and farepayers.
I believe that for the railway to be successful it needs to put passengers at its heart.
We need to recognise that there is unlikely to be a ‘one size fits all’ solution which will work for every part of the country and all types of passenger.
Although I do have concerns this review will go the same way as the other reviews we've had over the years, e.g. Hansford.0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1100422169589370880
Jacob Rees-Mogg0 -
Yes - but the Labour Party of today (which is nothing like the one Kinnock fought to create) is utterly silent on Corbyn's association with people who wish harm on this country.ydoethur said:
In fairness Neil Kinnock said it high, loud and repeatedly at the time.oxfordsimon said:It is all well and good Labour saying that Williamson can't invite Jackie Walker because she is under 'investigation' because of her anti-semitism.
But where is the acknowledgement that Corbyn shouldn't have invited all the terrorist supporters that he has hosted in Westminster??0 -
The fact that it is Godfrey Kneller’s portrait of James II from the NPG does suggest a better class of psychotic.ydoethur said:
Can't be SeanT, the regularity of the handwriting suggests the writer was just unhinged, not pissed.TheScreamingEagles said:So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/11004221695893708800 -
On the subject of Italy, this is a fascinating video on how easy (or hard) it would be to leave the Euro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc0FwoIsDMI0 -
So was Corbyn, of course, raised on a sink estate.notme2 said:
I get 11, apparently more privileged than 82%. Despite being born in a homeless shelter, and brought up on a sink estate for my formative years.rcs1000 said:
I'm only more privileged that 61% of others, which sounds implausibly low.AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
Well, there was a sink on his father's estate. Somewhere.
(I hope you will excuse me for that little dig at the child of privilege. My background was boringly normal in a two-bed semi.)0 -
Of course the Dail did ultimately approve the Anglo Irish Treaty 64 to 57 votes, Cosgrave held things together for a decade until De Valera took overydoethur said:
I don't care who de Valera, it's Cosgrave we need right now.HYUFD said:
Who is Leave Means Leave's De Valera to May or Gove's Collins?williamglenn said:Nice to see Remain’s allies are keeping up their good work.
https://twitter.com/leavemnsleave/status/1100313986615123968?s=210 -
I’m willing to admit I had never heard of intersectionality until I did that quiz.oxfordsimon said:
It just shows up intersectionality for the nonsense it is. It is nothing more than a political agenda - no basis in science, reality or anything else credible.dixiedean said:
Only gay/straight? And Chriistian/Muslim or Jewish?AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
#buddhistbisexualerasure0 -
Persian is Farsi .ydoethur said:
Bloody aphobes.dixiedean said:
Only gay/straight? And Chriistian/Muslim or Jewish?AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
#buddhistbisexualerasure
And what about those who speak English as their fifth language? (I teach one girl who speaks Persian, Farsi. Arabic and French as her first languages - and her English is still nearly as good as mine!)0 -
Clearly a Freudian slipwilliamglenn said:
Leave this loontry?TheScreamingEagles said:So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
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It's just another word for how many "historically disadvantaged groups" you belong to._Anazina_ said:
I’m willing to admit I had never heard of intersectionality until I did that quiz.oxfordsimon said:
It just shows up intersectionality for the nonsense it is. It is nothing more than a political agenda - no basis in science, reality or anything else credible.dixiedean said:
Only gay/straight? And Chriistian/Muslim or Jewish?AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
#buddhistbisexualerasure0 -
I love the way it's on a James II portrait postcard.TheScreamingEagles said:So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/11004221695893708800 -
The rest of us are thinking something similar but might express it a bit more politely_Anazina_ said:TheScreamingEagles said:So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1100422169589370880
Jacob Rees-Mogg0 -
Personally? I don’t think there’s any deal that would pass the current Commons. The ERG want to vote it down and will rationalise a reason to do so.
Then, the tectonic plates will move further and we’ll end up staying. They’ll be happy because they blame someone else, say staying was better than “that deal” anyway and keep whinging about the EU.
I’m fairly confident this will happen.0 -
Well apparently the answer with me is...AndyJS said:
It's just another word for how many "historically disadvantaged groups" you belong to._Anazina_ said:
I’m willing to admit I had never heard of intersectionality until I did that quiz.oxfordsimon said:
It just shows up intersectionality for the nonsense it is. It is nothing more than a political agenda - no basis in science, reality or anything else credible.dixiedean said:
Only gay/straight? And Chriistian/Muslim or Jewish?AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
#buddhistbisexualerasure
One.
Atheists.
I didn’t realise we were oppressed, but do now!
Maybe @Richard_Tyndall - a fellow science devotee - can share?0 -
Definitely a JRM tell.rcs1000 said:
I love the way it's on a James II portrait postcard.TheScreamingEagles said:So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/11004221695893708800 -
😆rcs1000 said:
I love the way it's on a James II portrait postcard.TheScreamingEagles said:So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/11004221695893708800 -
Ahem. Lots of people are,, e.g.: https://www.bringbackbritishrail.org/_Anazina_ said:Nobody on Earth is suggesting a return to BR, it’s the straw man debating tool of primary school standard. Nobody can answer the question: What is franchising for? There are better models out there. And the most popular rail network in the UK is nationalised.
And renationalisation can mean many things: and since Labour are refusing to say exactly what their proposed organisational structure will be (afaiaa), and given their arguments about the split nature of the network, it seems a top-down large organisation is something they favour. BR in everything but name.
Your comment also ignores the biggest problems with the network are being caused by the nationalised Network Rail, the DfT (i.e. government) and the unions. Those are the things that most need fixing.
As I've said before, concessions should strongly be looked into: they're already used in some places. But screeching renationalisation won't help anyone when it's the part that is nationalised that's causing most pain.0 -
'Held things together'?!!HYUFD said:
Of course the Dail did ultimately approve the Anglo Irish Treaty 64 to 57 votes, Cosgrave held things together for a decade until De Valera took overydoethur said:
I don't care who de Valera, it's Cosgrave we need right now.HYUFD said:
Who is Leave Means Leave's De Valera to May or Gove's Collins?williamglenn said:Nice to see Remain’s allies are keeping up their good work.
https://twitter.com/leavemnsleave/status/1100313986615123968?s=21
In 1918-22 the following new countries were created or recreated in Europe:
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Poland
Finland (sort of)
Czechoslovakia
Austria
Hungary
Yugoslavia
Ireland
Turkey
Moldova
Ukraine
Georgia
And of all of those countries only Finland (which had technically come into existence earlier) and Ireland remained independent and democratic states from that day to this.
Now given the pretty unpropitious circumstances in which he came to power - in the middle of a civil war, with a divided government, two more high profile subordinates, his predecessor shot and his most effective political figure commanding the other side - I think it is fair to say that was some achievement on Cosgrave's part.
Edit - heck, even if I add in all the other European states I can only add Sweden, Switzerland and us to the list of continuous democracies. And that would be not far from true by 1932 when he left office.0 -
What would they do to give their lives meaning after we left?Richard_Nabavi said:
They seem to spend their entire time assiduously searching for something EU-related which they can moan about. A curious hobby, but it takes all sorts, I suppose._Anazina_ said:Richard_Nabavi said:
That's hilarious!williamglenn said:Nice to see Remain’s allies are keeping up their good work.
https://twitter.com/leavemnsleave/status/1100313986615123968?s=21
I’ll admit to now being completely baffled. Are these no marks campaigning to make sure the European elections ARE held? Why??0 -
I hope you're wrong.Casino_Royale said:Personally? I don’t think there’s any deal that would pass the current Commons. The ERG want to vote it down and will rationalise a reason to do so.
Then, the tectonic plates will move further and we’ll end up staying. They’ll be happy because they blame someone else, say staying was better than “that deal” anyway and keep whinging about the EU.
I’m fairly confident this will happen.0 -
So do I, but I don’t think I am.rcs1000 said:
I hope you're wrong.Casino_Royale said:Personally? I don’t think there’s any deal that would pass the current Commons. The ERG want to vote it down and will rationalise a reason to do so.
Then, the tectonic plates will move further and we’ll end up staying. They’ll be happy because they blame someone else, say staying was better than “that deal” anyway and keep whinging about the EU.
I’m fairly confident this will happen.
Brexiteers like us are too few and far between.0 -
Indeed I am, but the railway as a whole runs at what is effectively a massive loss, admittedly bailed out by taxpayers, which makes a mockery of the idea they are private businesses.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you are talking about London Underground it is also running a £1 billion deficit._Anazina_ said:
Nobody on Earth is suggesting a return to BR, it’s the straw man debating tool of primary school standard. Nobody can answer the question: What is franchising for? There are better models out there. And the most popular rail network in the UK is nationalised.JosiasJessop said:
Thanks for posting that. It'll be interesting to see where he goes with it: from that snippet, it doesn't sound like he thinks a return to BR is the solution. If so, I am not surprised.Verulamius said:Could this see the end of the current rail franchising regime?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rail-review-chair-says-franchising-cannot-continue-in-its-current-form
Keith Williams, independent chair of the first ‘root and branch’ Rail Review to be supported by government, will today (26 February 2019) announce that the rail franchising system cannot continue in the way it is now.
In the George Bradshaw Address, Keith Williams is expected to say:
I have heard a great deal about the franchising model….driving growth in passengers and benefits to services. But with this growth the needs of passengers have changed whilst many of the basic elements of our rail system have not kept pace.
Put bluntly, franchising cannot continue the way it is today. It is no longer delivering clear benefits for either taxpayers and farepayers.
I believe that for the railway to be successful it needs to put passengers at its heart.
We need to recognise that there is unlikely to be a ‘one size fits all’ solution which will work for every part of the country and all types of passenger.
Although I do have concerns this review will go the same way as the other reviews we've had over the years, e.g. Hansford.
I should add that I don’t think the railway can or should run at a profit. It’s a cost of running an economy in a civilised country.
Regardless of the efforts of May and Corbyn, we are not (yet?) a banana republic, ergo our railway cannot be allowed to fail.0 -
What language do they speak in Afghanistan then? It is that one. Do I mean Pashtun instead of Persian?Ishmael_Z said:
Persian is Farsi .ydoethur said:
Bloody aphobes.dixiedean said:
Only gay/straight? And Chriistian/Muslim or Jewish?AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
#buddhistbisexualerasure
And what about those who speak English as their fifth language? (I teach one girl who speaks Persian, Farsi. Arabic and French as her first languages - and her English is still nearly as good as mine!)
(That may be my deafness causing confusion.)0 -
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It’s clearly the Moggster after a few cheeky sherbets.Fenman said:
The rest of us are thinking something similar but might express it a bit more politely_Anazina_ said:TheScreamingEagles said:So which PBer sent Heidi this postcard?
https://twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/1100422169589370880
Jacob Rees-Mogg0 -
Oof. 230 is a very big number. I doubt May will get the change to the WA that parliament asked for. In that circumstance, it seems almost impossible for her to get the WA passed.0
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O/T
Interesting read.
"The Millennial burden of perfectionism
Millennials are haunted by the idea of being proved inconsistent
Freya Sanders"
https://unherd.com/2019/02/the-millennial-burden-of-perfectionism/0 -
Well, erm, cough, okay some people are. But internet rule 17 or whatever it is called surely applies here. You can probably find a group that wants to unify Shetland with Norway if you google enough.JosiasJessop said:
Ahem. Lots of people are,, e.g.: https://www.bringbackbritishrail.org/_Anazina_ said:Nobody on Earth is suggesting a return to BR, it’s the straw man debating tool of primary school standard. Nobody can answer the question: What is franchising for? There are better models out there. And the most popular rail network in the UK is nationalised.
And renationalisation can mean many things: and since Labour are refusing to say exactly what their proposed organisational structure will be (afaiaa), and given their arguments about the split nature of the network, it seems a top-down large organisation is something they favour. BR in everything but name.
Your comment also ignores the biggest problems with the network are being caused by the nationalised Network Rail, the DfT (i.e. government) and the unions. Those are the things that most need fixing.
As I've said before, concessions should strongly be looked into: they're already used in some places. But screeching renationalisation won't help anyone when it's the part that is nationalised that's causing most pain.
I’ll reply to the rest of your post when I emerge from my nationalised rail journey very shortly. I’ll tell you how it went!0 -
The private businesses are those running the services not the services themselves. Whether or not it is more efficient for the tax payer to get private companies to bid against each other to run those services is the question._Anazina_ said:
Indeed I am, but the railway as a whole runs at what is effectively a massive loss, admittedly bailed out by taxpayers, which makes a mockery of the idea they are private businesses.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you are talking about London Underground it is also running a £1 billion deficit._Anazina_ said:
Nobody on Earth is suggesting a return to BR, it’s the straw man debating tool of primary school standard. Nobody can answer the question: What is franchising for? There are better models out there. And the most popular rail network in the UK is nationalised.JosiasJessop said:
Thanks for posting that. It'll be interesting to see where he goes with it: from that snippet, it doesn't sound like he thinks a return to BR is the solution. If so, I am not surprised.Verulamius said:Could this see the end of the current rail franchising regime?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rail-review-chair-says-franchising-cannot-continue-in-its-current-form
Keith Williams, independent chair of the first ‘root and branch’ Rail Review to be supported by government, will today (26 February 2019) announce that the rail franchising system cannot continue in the way it is now.
In the George Bradshaw Address, Keith Williams is expected to say:
I have heard a great deal about the franchising model….driving growth in passengers and benefits to services. But with this growth the needs of passengers have changed whilst many of the basic elements of our rail system have not kept pace.
Put bluntly, franchising cannot continue the way it is today. It is no longer delivering clear benefits for either taxpayers and farepayers.
I believe that for the railway to be successful it needs to put passengers at its heart.
We need to recognise that there is unlikely to be a ‘one size fits all’ solution which will work for every part of the country and all types of passenger.
Although I do have concerns this review will go the same way as the other reviews we've had over the years, e.g. Hansford.
I should add that I don’t think the railway can or should run at a profit. It’s a cost of running an economy in a civilised country.
Regardless of the efforts of May and Corbyn, we are not (yet?) a banana republic, ergo our railway cannot be allowed to fail.0 -
You were only pawns in their game.Casino_Royale said:
So do I, but I don’t think I am.rcs1000 said:
I hope you're wrong.Casino_Royale said:Personally? I don’t think there’s any deal that would pass the current Commons. The ERG want to vote it down and will rationalise a reason to do so.
Then, the tectonic plates will move further and we’ll end up staying. They’ll be happy because they blame someone else, say staying was better than “that deal” anyway and keep whinging about the EU.
I’m fairly confident this will happen.
Brexiteers like us are too few and far between.
https://twitter.com/propertyspot/status/1100079086192480256?s=210 -
Dari is Afghan Persian. Think Switzerdeutsch. Mutually intelligible..ydoethur said:
What language do they speak in Afghanistan then? It is that one. Do I mean Pashtun instead of Persian?Ishmael_Z said:
Persian is Farsi .ydoethur said:
Bloody aphobes.dixiedean said:
Only gay/straight? And Chriistian/Muslim or Jewish?AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
#buddhistbisexualerasure
And what about those who speak English as their fifth language? (I teach one girl who speaks Persian, Farsi. Arabic and French as her first languages - and her English is still nearly as good as mine!)
(That may be my deafness causing confusion.)
Pashtun is a completely different language of Afghanistan.0 -
At least they're not hypocrites then.Casino_Royale said:Personally? I don’t think there’s any deal that would pass the current Commons. The ERG want to vote it down and will rationalise a reason to do so.
Then, the tectonic plates will move further and we’ll end up staying. They’ll be happy because they blame someone else, say staying was better than “that deal” anyway and keep whinging about the EU.
I’m fairly confident this will happen.
Staying is better than this deal. It didn't have to be that way which is why most Leaver backers who were in the Cabinet have resigned and why she's lost 2 Brexit Secretaries.
This deal doesn't deserve to be passed and it shouldn't be a surprise when people have acted consistently since before the deal was signed.
Signing a deal that was known to be hated in Parliament before it was signed was madness.0 -
How have you managed to be on the internet and to have avoided talk of intersectionality?_Anazina_ said:
I’m willing to admit I had never heard of intersectionality until I did that quiz.oxfordsimon said:
It just shows up intersectionality for the nonsense it is. It is nothing more than a political agenda - no basis in science, reality or anything else credible.dixiedean said:
Only gay/straight? And Chriistian/Muslim or Jewish?AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
#buddhistbisexualerasure
The whole thing is an American leftist academic creation to reinforce people's feelings of victimhood. It takes zero account of the individual and just labels people, It is so unhelpful in tackling real inequality.0 -
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I’m a sceptic on this. The DUP will never back this deal or anything close to it. There must be 30 ERGites who will take the same line, as a minimum. Then there are the Tory Remainer opponents of the deal.
It looks sunk to me.0 -
Agreed. Even if ERG back it, that is insufficient.AlastairMeeks said:I’m a sceptic on this. The DUP will never back this deal or anything close to it. There must be 30 ERGites who will take the same line, as a minimum. Then there are the Tory Remainer opponents of the deal.
It looks sunk to me.
The only way to salvage a deal is for the EU to concede on the backstop.
And the only way to get the EU to concede on the backstop is to be prepared to go to No Deal.0 -
Because we'll still be members so entitled to vote in them. The quote says if Article 50 is extended._Anazina_ said:Richard_Nabavi said:
That's hilarious!williamglenn said:Nice to see Remain’s allies are keeping up their good work.
https://twitter.com/leavemnsleave/status/1100313986615123968?s=21
I’ll admit to now being completely baffled. Are these no marks campaigning to make sure the European elections ARE held? Why??
If we're still members on election day (or at least first day of the new Parliament) we should get a vote. Can't just pretend we're not members anymore even though we are.0 -
Watching Channel 4 News reporting that there is a warning that business is not prepared for no deal Brexit. Great. As a senior manager in an SME manufacturer and exporter please tell me what the fuck they expect our business to do when we have no idea which way they are likely to go in the remaining few weeks.
We've prepped a Brexit risk plan and various contingencies. We are meeting several times a week to review. But we don't have the cash or the space to implement all the contingencies, nor is it clear which contingencies would best serve us, nor do our various suppliers or prospective alternative suppliers know which options are best for them.
If we are going to delay, they need to delay. Now.0 -
This deal is your best chance of Brexit. Once it goes, Parliament will take over.Philip_Thompson said:
Agreed. Even if ERG back it, that is insufficient.AlastairMeeks said:I’m a sceptic on this. The DUP will never back this deal or anything close to it. There must be 30 ERGites who will take the same line, as a minimum. Then there are the Tory Remainer opponents of the deal.
It looks sunk to me.
The only way to salvage a deal is for the EU to concede on the backstop.
And the only way to get the EU to concede on the backstop is to be prepared to go to No Deal.0 -
Please tell me it's a parody.AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
0 -
Didn't bother with the test, but the comments below it are LOL funny.notme2 said:
I get 11, apparently more privileged than 82%. Despite being born in a homeless shelter, and brought up on a sink estate for my formative years.rcs1000 said:
I'm only more privileged that 61% of others, which sounds implausibly low.AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com0 -
Thing is, the London and it's commuter belt rail services (underground and overground) really should be one of the profitable bits of the network. Running half a dozen short trains a day over a 100 miles of particularly expensive infrastructure (e.g. the Cambrian Coast Line) is always going to need a huge amount of subsidy, but a network like London's where you can essentially run most of your track at full capacity with trains loaded to full capacity (and where there is no real viable alternative way to travel for many users) should be something approaching to a licence to print money._Anazina_ said:
Indeed I am, but the railway as a whole runs at what is effectively a massive loss, admittedly bailed out by taxpayers, which makes a mockery of the idea they are private businesses.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you are talking about London Underground it is also running a £1 billion deficit._Anazina_ said:
Nobody on Earth is suggesting a return to BR, it’s the straw man debating tool of primary school standard. Nobody can answer the question: What is franchising for? There are better models out there. And the most popular rail network in the UK is nationalised.JosiasJessop said:
Thanks for posting that. It'll be interesting to see where he goes with it: from that snippet, it doesn't sound like he thinks a return to BR is the solution. If so, I am not surprised.Verulamius said:Could this see the end of the current rail franchising regime?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rail-review-chair-says-franchising-cannot-continue-in-its-current-form
Although I do have concerns this review will go the same way as the other reviews we've had over the years, e.g. Hansford.
I should add that I don’t think the railway can or should run at a profit. It’s a cost of running an economy in a civilised country.
Regardless of the efforts of May and Corbyn, we are not (yet?) a banana republic, ergo our railway cannot be allowed to fail.0 -
That is right as far as it goes but what is in it for Leave Mean's Leave? What if it turns into a proxy second referendum?Philip_Thompson said:
Because we'll still be members so entitled to vote in them. The quote says if Article 50 is extended._Anazina_ said:Richard_Nabavi said:
That's hilarious!williamglenn said:Nice to see Remain’s allies are keeping up their good work.
https://twitter.com/leavemnsleave/status/1100313986615123968?s=21
I’ll admit to now being completely baffled. Are these no marks campaigning to make sure the European elections ARE held? Why??
If we're still members on election day (or at least first day of the new Parliament) we should get a vote. Can't just pretend we're not members anymore even though we are.0 -
I came out at 96%, which puts me near the top of the list when the revolution comes.rcs1000 said:
I'm only more privileged that 61% of others, which sounds implausibly low.AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com0 -
Seriously? You still believe that? This has been going on for years. Cameron's Bloomberg speech was six years ago. For years we've been banging on that if we threaten to Leave, or threaten to Leave with No Deal, they will give us what we want. It hasn't worked once.Philip_Thompson said:... the only way to get the EU to concede on the backstop is to be prepared to go to No Deal...
0 -
Probably the wrong end of the list!AndyJS said:
I came out at 96%, which puts me near the top of the list when the revolution comes.rcs1000 said:
I'm only more privileged that 61% of others, which sounds implausibly low.AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
71% for me.
Surely private education should be on the scoresheet?0 -
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You do not count.RochdalePioneers said:Watching Channel 4 News reporting that there is a warning that business is not prepared for no deal Brexit. Great. As a senior manager in an SME manufacturer and exporter please tell me what the fuck they expect our business to do when we have no idea which way they are likely to go in the remaining few weeks.
We've prepped a Brexit risk plan and various contingencies. We are meeting several times a week to review. But we don't have the cash or the space to implement all the contingencies, nor is it clear which contingencies would best serve us, nor do our various suppliers or prospective alternative suppliers know which options are best for them.
If we are going to delay, they need to delay. Now.
They are not listening to you.
As long as the polls remain solid they will ignore everything you say.
Assume that they will fuck up and plan for that.
Because fuck up is all they do.
0 -
Suspect that's excactly what's in it for LML - they'd want to use it as an anti-Remain protest vote. And it's a ploy I could see working - there is little doubt that the people who feel most strongly about Europe are the arch-Leavers.Ishmael_Z said:
That is right as far as it goes but what is in it for Leave Mean's Leave? What if it turns into a proxy second referendum?Philip_Thompson said:
Because we'll still be members so entitled to vote in them. The quote says if Article 50 is extended._Anazina_ said:Richard_Nabavi said:
That's hilarious!williamglenn said:Nice to see Remain’s allies are keeping up their good work.
https://twitter.com/leavemnsleave/status/1100313986615123968?s=21
I’ll admit to now being completely baffled. Are these no marks campaigning to make sure the European elections ARE held? Why??
If we're still members on election day (or at least first day of the new Parliament) we should get a vote. Can't just pretend we're not members anymore even though we are.
I can't see the UK having another vote in EU elections unless and until a 2nd Ref has voted Remain though.0 -
0
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95%. We stand condemned together. I've posted mine on facebook inviting my wokest chums to check MY privilege.AndyJS said:
I came out at 96%, which puts me near the top of the list when the revolution comes.rcs1000 said:
I'm only more privileged that 61% of others, which sounds implausibly low.AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com0 -
@TheScreamingEagles so you know how I said Corbyn backing a second referendum would give the JK rowling types enough to work with to head off IndyRef2 even happening?
Scratch that. Leonard is a buffoon.
https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/1100424322173292544?s=190 -
They will certainly not give us what we want when they take the view that the PM, her lead negotiator, most of her Cabinet, the majority of her MPs and the vast majority of all MPs have absolutely no intention of letting the UK leave under WTO terms and would rather the UK stay in the EU under those or indeed any circumstances.viewcode said:
Seriously? You still believe that? This has been going on for years. Cameron's Bloomberg speech was six years ago. For years we've been banging on that if we threaten to Leave, or threaten to Leave with No Deal, they will give us what we want. It hasn't worked once.Philip_Thompson said:... the only way to get the EU to concede on the backstop is to be prepared to go to No Deal...
0 -
You gotta admire Lilico. The only man innocent enough to use the phrase "Queen kneel and kiss Juncker's ring" without recognising the double entendre...Gardenwalker said:Frothers gonna froth.
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1100468439607635968?s=21 0 -
Yeah, like I said yesterday it was never a credible bluff. Now we have shoved in all our chips and are sitting on a pair of dueces...Wulfrun_Phil said:
They will certainly not give us what we want when they take the view that the PM, her lead negotiator, most of her Cabinet, the majority of her MPs and the vast majority of all MPs have absolutely no intention of letting the UK leave under WTO terms and would rather the UK stay in the EU under those or indeed any circumstances.viewcode said:
Seriously? You still believe that? This has been going on for years. Cameron's Bloomberg speech was six years ago. For years we've been banging on that if we threaten to Leave, or threaten to Leave with No Deal, they will give us what we want. It hasn't worked once.Philip_Thompson said:... the only way to get the EU to concede on the backstop is to be prepared to go to No Deal...
0 -
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I don’t spend that much time on ‘the internet’. PB and the BBC Sport pages cover 90% of my usage!oxfordsimon said:
How have you managed to be on the internet and to have avoided talk of intersectionality?_Anazina_ said:
I’m willing to admit I had never heard of intersectionality until I did that quiz.oxfordsimon said:
It just shows up intersectionality for the nonsense it is. It is nothing more than a political agenda - no basis in science, reality or anything else credible.dixiedean said:
Only gay/straight? And Chriistian/Muslim or Jewish?AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com
#buddhistbisexualerasure
The whole thing is an American leftist academic creation to reinforce people's feelings of victimhood. It takes zero account of the individual and just labels people, It is so unhelpful in tackling real inequality.0 -
No, we think we are sitting on a pair of dueces, they know that we think we are sitting on a pair of dueces, but they also know that they are in fact a pair of aces and have been hoping all along that we don't wake up to the fact.Foxy said:
Yeah, like I said yesterday it was never a credible bluff. Now we have shoved in all our chips and are sitting on a pair of dueces...Wulfrun_Phil said:
They will certainly not give us what we want when they take the view that the PM, her lead negotiator, most of her Cabinet, the majority of her MPs and the vast majority of all MPs have absolutely no intention of letting the UK leave under WTO terms and would rather the UK stay in the EU under those or indeed any circumstances.viewcode said:
Seriously? You still believe that? This has been going on for years. Cameron's Bloomberg speech was six years ago. For years we've been banging on that if we threaten to Leave, or threaten to Leave with No Deal, they will give us what we want. It hasn't worked once.Philip_Thompson said:... the only way to get the EU to concede on the backstop is to be prepared to go to No Deal...
0 -
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I agree with you. But unfortunately that doesn't mean "threaten Leave with No Deal" will work either.Wulfrun_Phil said:
They will certainly not give us what we want when they take the view that the PM, her lead negotiator, most of her Cabinet, the majority of her MPs and the vast majority of all MPs have absolutely no intention of letting the UK leave under WTO terms and would rather the UK stay in the EU under those or indeed any circumstances.viewcode said:
Seriously? You still believe that? This has been going on for years. Cameron's Bloomberg speech was six years ago. For years we've been banging on that if we threaten to Leave, or threaten to Leave with No Deal, they will give us what we want. It hasn't worked once.Philip_Thompson said:... the only way to get the EU to concede on the backstop is to be prepared to go to No Deal...
0 -
With all deu respect, that's not how it's spelt.Wulfrun_Phil said:
No, we think we are sitting on a pair of dueces, they know that we think we are sitting on a pair of dueces, but they also know that they are in fact a pair of aces and have been hoping all along that we don't wake up to the fact.Foxy said:
Yeah, like I said yesterday it was never a credible bluff. Now we have shoved in all our chips and are sitting on a pair of dueces...Wulfrun_Phil said:
They will certainly not give us what we want when they take the view that the PM, her lead negotiator, most of her Cabinet, the majority of her MPs and the vast majority of all MPs have absolutely no intention of letting the UK leave under WTO terms and would rather the UK stay in the EU under those or indeed any circumstances.viewcode said:
Seriously? You still believe that? This has been going on for years. Cameron's Bloomberg speech was six years ago. For years we've been banging on that if we threaten to Leave, or threaten to Leave with No Deal, they will give us what we want. It hasn't worked once.Philip_Thompson said:... the only way to get the EU to concede on the backstop is to be prepared to go to No Deal...
0 -
I didn't say threaten to leave ... I said be prepared to leave ... Do you understand the difference?viewcode said:
Seriously? You still believe that? This has been going on for years. Cameron's Bloomberg speech was six years ago. For years we've been banging on that if we threaten to Leave, or threaten to Leave with No Deal, they will give us what we want. It hasn't worked once.Philip_Thompson said:... the only way to get the EU to concede on the backstop is to be prepared to go to No Deal...
0 -
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Prole
Does it run to full capacity? It does during rush hour, sure. But for large parts of the day it runs a quarter (or less?) full. As I say, it’s a cost of running an economy. You need that regular service even though many trains are undertrading.0 -
No it won't. Hence why I didnt use the word threaten that you're putting into quotation marks.viewcode said:
I agree with you. But unfortunately that doesn't mean "threaten Leave with No Deal" will work either.Wulfrun_Phil said:
They will certainly not give us what we want when they take the view that the PM, her lead negotiator, most of her Cabinet, the majority of her MPs and the vast majority of all MPs have absolutely no intention of letting the UK leave under WTO terms and would rather the UK stay in the EU under those or indeed any circumstances.viewcode said:
Seriously? You still believe that? This has been going on for years. Cameron's Bloomberg speech was six years ago. For years we've been banging on that if we threaten to Leave, or threaten to Leave with No Deal, they will give us what we want. It hasn't worked once.Philip_Thompson said:... the only way to get the EU to concede on the backstop is to be prepared to go to No Deal...
0 -
You are a devout Christian?AndyJS said:
I came out at 96%, which puts me near the top of the list when the revolution comes.rcs1000 said:
I'm only more privileged that 61% of others, which sounds implausibly low.AndyJS said:O/T
"The Intersectionality Score Calculator":
https://intersectionalityscore.com0 -
Possibly a distinction without a difference. But taking it at face value for the moment, are you telling me we are sufficiently prepared to leave with No Deal? Because I'm not sure that's true.Philip_Thompson said:
I didn't say threaten to leave ... I said be prepared to leave ... Do you understand the difference?viewcode said:
Seriously? You still believe that? This has been going on for years. Cameron's Bloomberg speech was six years ago. For years we've been banging on that if we threaten to Leave, or threaten to Leave with No Deal, they will give us what we want. It hasn't worked once.Philip_Thompson said:... the only way to get the EU to concede on the backstop is to be prepared to go to No Deal...
0 -
I have just been told that the largest school in Cannock will not be offering A-levels in maths or ICT next year as they are so bloody hard to get a decent grade in nobody is choosing them. (No, not my school.)
This is madness. And it will not end well. Indeed, it has already ended rather badly.0
