politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tom Watson plans a new LAB MPs grouping and there’s little Mil
Comments
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It is indeed. I have been out cutting my grass and we are predicted to be the warmest place in the UK tomorrowTheJezziah said:
No need to make moves at the moment, just sit back and soak in a bit of February sun. Hope it's nice where you are.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tom Watson could make it permanent. Move against him and he could take enough mps with him to TIG to make TIG the largest opposition groupTheJezziah said:
If he got into a tizzy every time a Labour MP kicked off he'd knacker himself out. Best to let them shout loudly for a while get the worst of it out of their system then deal with any reasonable complaints once they've calmed down.Slackbladder said:
It's a nice day on the allotments, plenty of turning over to do..Peter_the_Punter said:
So where the hell is the Leader on all this?CarlottaVance said:
Where was the Leader this morning when Jon Lansman was being questioned on Radio 4 about the Party's psoition on AS and a possible 2nd referendum?
Hard to defend a Leader who is as inactive as Corbyn on such vital policy matters.
Not much to do in the short term but enjoy some relaxing time in the sunshine down the allotments.0 -
You are Mr F, a similar age to my children. I grew up in the 50's, wanting a better life for people, what my parents were promised in 1945. After a while I came to believe that the Liberals offered something different and better, and under Charlie Kennedy they did, but then came the Coalition and 'austerity' for those low down the pecking order 'because it was their fault'.Nigel_Foremain said:
Maybe I should write a counterpoint:AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
"Socialism, That's What I Knew". The making of a middle aged Centrist
Nigel Foremain, 54, grew up in a Britain wrecked by the Winter of Discontent. He went to a bog standard comp with lefty teachers and gave up on the Labour Party a year after leaving school."
So I sympathise with young Mr McIntyre.0 -
Theresa May and John McDonnell are the two finest liars in British politics. They do it instinctively and with no embarrassment whatsoever.0
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Let us hope Tom Watson does a better job of this than he made as nonce finder general.0
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Corbyn already went up for re election, increased his mandate.blueblue said:
Crikey, that's a bit harsh on Magic Grandpa! True, but harshbigjohnowls said:On Topic.
Gained his mandate on a lie.
Would lose any election now.
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On topic - Watson has always been quite close to the unions. He burned his bridges with Len McCluskey a while back, but that still leaves others who are pretty influential and far less part of the Morning Star Brexiteer clique that controls the leader's office. I am thinking Tim Roache of the GMB specifically here. His reaction to the TIGs was quite interesting. It's worth looking up.0
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So do I, Mr C, but you will have the age and wisdom to know that Socialism (particularly of the very left wing variety) never provides the answers. It is a failing of moderate leaders that they have allowed younger generations to think it is worth giving it a go!OldKingCole said:
You are Mr F, a similar age to my children. I grew up in the 50's, wanting a better life for people, what my parents were promised in 1945. After a while I came to believe that the Liberals offered something different and better, and under Charlie Kennedy they did, but then came the Coalition and 'austerity' for those low down the pecking order 'because it was their fault'.Nigel_Foremain said:
Maybe I should write a counterpoint:AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
"Socialism, That's What I Knew". The making of a middle aged Centrist
Nigel Foremain, 54, grew up in a Britain wrecked by the Winter of Discontent. He went to a bog standard comp with lefty teachers and gave up on the Labour Party a year after leaving school."
So I sympathise with young Mr McIntyre.0 -
Utterly offtopic but a few images of Detroit returning to nature just open the thread..
https://twitter.com/ZugIslander/status/10994260559480381440 -
Any mention, that is, apart from "a debt to be paid back gradually upon securing a well-paid job".RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
On the substantive point, I agree with you that it's not as much of a millstone as is painted, and similar to a grad tax.
But I can still see why it's fertile ground for JC with student activists. If I was TMay, I'd be telling The Many who didn't go to uni that JC wanted them to pay for his middle-class Islington mates to do so.0 -
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A bizarre failure in a US newspaper, where tuition debt often ranges well into the hundreds of thousands.RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html0 -
Nebulous and easily missedHarris_Tweed said:
Any mention, that is, apart from "a debt to be paid back gradually upon securing a well-paid job".RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
On the substantive point, I agree with you that it's not as much of a millstone as is painted, and similar to a grad tax.
But I can still see why it's fertile ground for JC with student activists. If I was TMay, I'd be telling The Many who didn't go to uni that JC wanted them to pay for his middle-class Islington mates to do so. 0 -
The increase in Student numbers has allowed jobs that never required a degree to now insist on one. That coupled with the cost of the degree means it's not a great deal for many students.Harris_Tweed said:
Any mention, that is, apart from "a debt to be paid back gradually upon securing a well-paid job".RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
On the substantive point, I agree with you that it's not as much of a millstone as is painted, and similar to a grad tax.
But I can still see why it's fertile ground for JC with student activists. If I was TMay, I'd be telling The Many who didn't go to uni that JC wanted them to pay for his middle-class Islington mates to do so.
Anyone with any sense would recommend an decent apprenticeship first and a degree only as the backup plan...0 -
Being found wantonly lazy is not a good CV for a CEO. Some CEOs are egotistical psychos though, but that type of profile is becoming (thankfully) less fashionable. So no, David Davis, no serious board would touch you with a barge pole you egotistical pillock.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I would be very, very surprised if Watson was not in regular contact with the TIGs. He does seem to have made full use of the last week.MarqueeMark said:Has Watson shot, er, the Tiggers' fox?
They haven't had a defection in, ooh, ages.
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Yeah, many readers will be wondering what he’s complaining about.Endillion said:
A bizarre failure in a US newspaper, where tuition debt often ranges well into the hundreds of thousands.RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html0 -
If I were TMay, I'd undo George Osborne's mistake and rename it a graduate tax. In its current incarnation, it leaves graduates with a massive debt, even if some of them will never repay it.Harris_Tweed said:
Any mention, that is, apart from "a debt to be paid back gradually upon securing a well-paid job".RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
On the substantive point, I agree with you that it's not as much of a millstone as is painted, and similar to a grad tax.
But I can still see why it's fertile ground for JC with student activists. If I was TMay, I'd be telling The Many who didn't go to uni that JC wanted them to pay for his middle-class Islington mates to do so.
Ironically, there probably is a case for using similar income-contingent loans elsewhere in government, but not here.0 -
I
And if it’s paid by all graduates it can be a lot lower since those on the highest salaries will keep paying it.DecrepitJohnL said:
If I were TMay, I'd undo George Osborne's mistake and rename it a graduate tax. In its current incarnation, it leaves graduates with a massive debt, even if some of them will never repay it.Harris_Tweed said:
Any mention, that is, apart from "a debt to be paid back gradually upon securing a well-paid job".RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
On the substantive point, I agree with you that it's not as much of a millstone as is painted, and similar to a grad tax.
But I can still see why it's fertile ground for JC with student activists. If I was TMay, I'd be telling The Many who didn't go to uni that JC wanted them to pay for his middle-class Islington mates to do so.
Ironically, there probably is a case for using similar income-contingent loans elsewhere in government, but not here.0 -
Well it all went swimmingly for him "staying in the tent and pissing out".Philip_Thompson said:
A more modern parallel if this works could be Nick Clegg as Deputy Prime Minister and part of the quad.Recidivist said:Tom Watson is turning into a bit of a Herbert Morrison du jour. He seems to have influence out of all proportion to his nominal position.
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This sort of thing is often over-simplified. Not all Scots voted remain, just as not everyone from Lincolnshire voted leave. 40% or so of Scots voted leave. The market for the other 60% of votes in Scotland is very crowded.Scott_P said:0 -
Oh, you meant an election in his private club - the Labour party - not the country. I'm happy for him to keep winning thoseTheJezziah said:
Corbyn already went up for re election, increased his mandate.blueblue said:
Crikey, that's a bit harsh on Magic Grandpa! True, but harshbigjohnowls said:On Topic.
Gained his mandate on a lie.
Would lose any election now.
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Yes, and amusing that a US newspaper prints a moan about a student having to work in Wetherspoons, the equivalent of which would be completely normal in the US.Endillion said:
A bizarre failure in a US newspaper, where tuition debt often ranges well into the hundreds of thousands.RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html0 -
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You found the words perfectly but I am too polite to use themNigel_Foremain said:
Being found wantonly lazy is not a good CV for a CEO. Some CEOs are egotistical psychos though, but that type of profile is becoming (thankfully) less fashionable. So no, David Davis, no serious board would touch you with a barge pole you egotistical pillock.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
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As the former Minister for Winging It David Davis is very much of the Digby Jones school of British senior management and is part of the problem, not the solution.Nigel_Foremain said:
Being found wantonly lazy is not a good CV for a CEO. Some CEOs are egotistical psychos though, but that type of profile is becoming (thankfully) less fashionable. So no, David Davis, no serious board would touch you with a barge pole you egotistical pillock.TheScreamingEagles said:
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Happy to be of serviceBig_G_NorthWales said:
You found the words perfectly but I am too polite to use themNigel_Foremain said:
Being found wantonly lazy is not a good CV for a CEO. Some CEOs are egotistical psychos though, but that type of profile is becoming (thankfully) less fashionable. So no, David Davis, no serious board would touch you with a barge pole you egotistical pillock.TheScreamingEagles said: 0 -
Yeah.. with Lansman's rather public noise on AS this morning, the ingredients are all there for a fairly seismic Lab split. Not saying it's nailed on, but neither is the status quo.SouthamObserver said:On topic - Watson has always been quite close to the unions. He burned his bridges with Len McCluskey a while back, but that still leaves others who are pretty influential and far less part of the Morning Star Brexiteer clique that controls the leader's office. I am thinking Tim Roache of the GMB specifically here. His reaction to the TIGs was quite interesting. It's worth looking up.
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Scott_P said:
Can you imagine it? It is only slightly less ridiculous and embarrassing than Corbyn as PM
"So Primeminister, have you read the briefing papers?"
"Erm, what? Papers, oh well just better wing it"0 -
When I was young it wasn't necessary to go to Uni to be a solicitor, or barrister come to that, accountant, banking and no doubt other occupations. One could leave school after GCE, do articles (similar to an apprenticeship) although the process could be complicated, while working, studying by day-release or by post. Teachers and pharmacists (my wife and I) did a two-year full-time FE course, plus, for pharmacists, articles. I needed A levels, my wife didn't.eek said:
The increase in Student numbers has allowed jobs that never required a degree to now insist on one. That coupled with the cost of the degree means it's not a great deal for many students.Harris_Tweed said:
Any mention, that is, apart from "a debt to be paid back gradually upon securing a well-paid job".RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
On the substantive point, I agree with you that it's not as much of a millstone as is painted, and similar to a grad tax.
But I can still see why it's fertile ground for JC with student activists. If I was TMay, I'd be telling The Many who didn't go to uni that JC wanted them to pay for his middle-class Islington mates to do so.
Anyone with any sense would recommend an decent apprenticeship first and a degree only as the backup plan...
However, I now have two teacher grandchildren and and teacher granddaughter-in-law. None of them seem that worried about their student debt now that they are working, and IIRC they are all over the repayment threshold.0 -
Is that 40% at the time of the referendum? If so, what would the percentage be now, approximately?Cookie said:
This sort of thing is often over-simplified. Not all Scots voted remain, just as not everyone from Lincolnshire voted leave. 40% or so of Scots voted leave. The market for the other 60% of votes in Scotland is very crowded.Scott_P said:0 -
I understand that a number of trainee solicitors and accountants have now reverted to obtaining their professional qualifications while working, rather than going to university.OldKingCole said:
When I was young it wasn't necessary to go to Uni to be a solicitor, or barrister come to that, accountant, banking and no doubt other occupations. One could leave school after GCE, do articles (similar to an apprenticeship) although the process could be complicated, while working, studying by day-release or by post. Teachers and pharmacists (my wife and I) did a two-year full-time FE course, plus, for pharmacists, articles.eek said:
The increase in Student numbers has allowed jobs that never required a degree to now insist on one. That coupled with the cost of the degree means it's not a great deal for many students.Harris_Tweed said:
Any mention, that is, apart from "a debt to be paid back gradually upon securing a well-paid job".RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
On the substantive point, I agree with you that it's not as much of a millstone as is painted, and similar to a grad tax.
But I can still see why it's fertile ground for JC with student activists. If I was TMay, I'd be telling The Many who didn't go to uni that JC wanted them to pay for his middle-class Islington mates to do so.
Anyone with any sense would recommend an decent apprenticeship first and a degree only as the backup plan...
However, I have two teacher grandchildren and and teacher granddaughter-in-law. None of them seem that worried about their student debt now that they are working, and IIRC they are all over the repayment threshold.0 -
The media fawning all over the Oscars today and while I do admire the talented people involved, it's unashamed wealth, privilege and entitlement is a complete switch off0
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Tissue_Price said:
I think most of us on here agreed that at the time; regardless it is a high bar and I'm not surprised it wasn't changed. Perhaps the lawyers here can advise as to whether it could be increased on the basis of her appeal, if the Court of Appeal think it was frivolous?DavidL said:
Its not speeding, its attempting to pervert the course of justice with the aggravation of being a solicitor and an MP. I can understand why the AG office feels its a bit political and doesn't want to touch it but that sentence was a joke.Tissue_Price said:
If she appeals against conviction, No, she can't get longer.
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The current PM's inability to "wing it" seems to be the problem. Unless "winging it" means doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.Nigel_Foremain said:Scott_P said:
Can you imagine it? It is only slightly less ridiculous and embarrassing than Corbyn as PM
"So Primeminister, have you read the briefing papers?"
"Erm, what? Papers, oh well just better wing it"
Having said that, his chance was 14 years ago and he has none now.0 -
The law, accountancy and banking have gone back to not requiring a degree. What used to be called articles, is indeed now called "apprenticeship" and is proving very popular for those that can get a firm to sponsor them.OldKingCole said:
When I was young it wasn't necessary to go to Uni to be a solicitor, or barrister come to that, accountant, banking and no doubt other occupations. One could leave school after GCE, do articles (similar to an apprenticeship) although the process could be complicated, while working, studying by day-release or by post. Teachers and pharmacists (my wife and I) did a two-year full-time FE course, plus, for pharmacists, articles. I needed A levels, my wife didn't.eek said:
The increase in Student numbers has allowed jobs that never required a degree to now insist on one. That coupled with the cost of the degree means it's not a great deal for many students.Harris_Tweed said:
Any mention, that is, apart from "a debt to be paid back gradually upon securing a well-paid job".RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
On the substantive point, I agree with you that it's not as much of a millstone as is painted, and similar to a grad tax.
But I can still see why it's fertile ground for JC with student activists. If I was TMay, I'd be telling The Many who didn't go to uni that JC wanted them to pay for his middle-class Islington mates to do so.
Anyone with any sense would recommend an decent apprenticeship first and a degree only as the backup plan...
However, I now have two teacher grandchildren and and teacher granddaughter-in-law. None of them seem that worried about their student debt now that they are working, and IIRC they are all over the repayment threshold.0 -
Worth a read. Cooper bill is pointless is the legal opinion.
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/02/25/robert-craig-why-royal-consent-is-required-for-the-proposed-article-50-extension-bill/amp/?__twitter_impression=true0 -
Agree; it's only just stopped being the BBC's lead story.Big_G_NorthWales said:The media fawning all over the Oscars today and while I do admire the talented people involved, it's unashamed wealth, privilege and entitlement is a complete switch off
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https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/1100032154912858112Big_G_NorthWales said:The media fawning all over the Oscars today and while I do admire the talented people involved, it's unashamed wealth, privilege and entitlement is a complete switch off
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Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.0
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...which is pretty much what DD did when he was in charge of getting us the easiest deal in history (OK, I know it was the disgraced GP that said that, but essentially they are one and the same)AnotherEngineer said:
The current PM's inability to "wing it" seems to be the problem. Unless "winging it" means doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.Nigel_Foremain said:Scott_P said:
Can you imagine it? It is only slightly less ridiculous and embarrassing than Corbyn as PM
"So Primeminister, have you read the briefing papers?"
"Erm, what? Papers, oh well just better wing it"
Having said that, his chance was 14 years ago.0 -
I wonder, do accountancy and the law still have the same complex mix of subjects having to be passed when and with what.Nigel_Foremain said:
The law, accountancy and banking have gone back to not requiring a degree. What used to be called articles, is indeed now called "apprenticeship" and is proving very popular for those that can get a firm to sponsor them.OldKingCole said:
When I was young it wasn't necessary to go to Uni to be a solicitor, or barrister come to that, accountant, banking and no doubt other occupations. One could leave school after GCE, do articles (similar to an apprenticeship) although the process could be complicated, while working, studying by day-release or by post. Teachers and pharmacists (my wife and I) did a two-year full-time FE course, plus, for pharmacists, articles. I needed A levels, my wife didn't.eek said:
The increase in Student numbers has allowed jobs that never required a degree to now insist on one. That coupled with the cost of the degree means it's not a great deal for many students.Harris_Tweed said:
Any mention, that is, apart from "a debt to be paid back gradually upon securing a well-paid job".RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
On the substantive point, I agree with you that it's not as much of a millstone as is painted, and similar to a grad tax.
But I can still see why it's fertile ground for JC with student activists. If I was TMay, I'd be telling The Many who didn't go to uni that JC wanted them to pay for his middle-class Islington mates to do so.
Anyone with any sense would recommend an decent apprenticeship first and a degree only as the backup plan...
However, I now have two teacher grandchildren and and teacher granddaughter-in-law. None of them seem that worried about their student debt now that they are working, and IIRC they are all over the repayment threshold.0 -
And if she appeals against the sentence instead/as well?algarkirk said:Tissue_Price said:
I think most of us on here agreed that at the time; regardless it is a high bar and I'm not surprised it wasn't changed. Perhaps the lawyers here can advise as to whether it could be increased on the basis of her appeal, if the Court of Appeal think it was frivolous?DavidL said:
Its not speeding, its attempting to pervert the course of justice with the aggravation of being a solicitor and an MP. I can understand why the AG office feels its a bit political and doesn't want to touch it but that sentence was a joke.Tissue_Price said:
If she appeals against conviction, No, she can't get longer.0 -
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
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Not to mention that their personal behaviour bears very little relation to their stated beliefsMorris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
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Well Trawsgoed in Ceredigion was the warmest today with a record breaking winter temperature of 20.3C.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is indeed. I have been out cutting my grass and we are predicted to be the warmest place in the UK tomorrowTheJezziah said:
No need to make moves at the moment, just sit back and soak in a bit of February sun. Hope it's nice where you are.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tom Watson could make it permanent. Move against him and he could take enough mps with him to TIG to make TIG the largest opposition groupTheJezziah said:
If he got into a tizzy every time a Labour MP kicked off he'd knacker himself out. Best to let them shout loudly for a while get the worst of it out of their system then deal with any reasonable complaints once they've calmed down.Slackbladder said:
It's a nice day on the allotments, plenty of turning over to do..Peter_the_Punter said:
So where the hell is the Leader on all this?CarlottaVance said:
Where was the Leader this morning when Jon Lansman was being questioned on Radio 4 about the Party's psoition on AS and a possible 2nd referendum?
Hard to defend a Leader who is as inactive as Corbyn on such vital policy matters.
Not much to do in the short term but enjoy some relaxing time in the sunshine down the allotments.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-473609520 -
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
0 -
All of which perhaps explains the independent group’s plan to form a party ‘before the year end’. Not much point setting any plans in stone before the Labour conference.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tom Watson could make it permanent. Move against him and he could take enough mps with him to TIG to make TIG the largest opposition groupTheJezziah said:
If he got into a tizzy every time a Labour MP kicked off he'd knacker himself out. Best to let them shout loudly for a while get the worst of it out of their system then deal with any reasonable complaints once they've calmed down.Slackbladder said:
It's a nice day on the allotments, plenty of turning over to do..Peter_the_Punter said:
So where the hell is the Leader on all this?CarlottaVance said:
Where was the Leader this morning when Jon Lansman was being questioned on Radio 4 about the Party's psoition on AS and a possible 2nd referendum?
Hard to defend a Leader who is as inactive as Corbyn on such vital policy matters.
Not much to do in the short term but enjoy some relaxing time in the sunshine down the allotments.
If Watson were to be ejected - which is undoubtedly a possible outcome - it would make for a very interesting period of politics. To seriously contest for power, the new group would have to attract disaffected Conservative voters along with non-Marxist Labour ones....
0 -
The whole thing is a show of obscene wealth and nonsense and if you watch most appeals on TV for aid, these same people are asking ordinary people to donate to their causes unaware of how many may be tempted who cannot afford toMorris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
0 -
Thanks, that's interesting.saddo said:Worth a read. Cooper bill is pointless is the legal opinion.
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/02/25/robert-craig-why-royal-consent-is-required-for-the-proposed-article-50-extension-bill/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
But after reading it, I'm not clear who actually decides whether a bill needs royal consent. The Speaker?0 -
So are we any further forward with this whole Brexit thing?0
-
Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.0
-
Mr. F, that's unfair. Thespians are well-known for giving themselves a hard time.
Personally, I think actors should stop beating themselves up.0 -
Don't think so. What if it decides how to vote on key matters in defiance of Corbyn?dyedwoolie said:Toms group runs the risk of being kids on the school council. Loud, full of energy and ignored
0 -
She clearly spent too much time sucking on a lemon. Righteous indignation should carry a health warning; "Being outraged can seriously damage your looks"Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
0 -
Sean Fear has unusual taste in women.Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
Admittedly, Arlene not quite in her 20s here, but not far off.
https://goo.gl/images/z1SgVQ0 -
It was actually 38% in Scotland at the EU referendum, last Scotland only poll in Dec was 37%, so not hugely different (most previous polls show a lower figure).Peter_the_Punter said:
Is that 40% at the time of the referendum? If so, what would the percentage be now, approximately?Cookie said:
This sort of thing is often over-simplified. Not all Scots voted remain, just as not everyone from Lincolnshire voted leave. 40% or so of Scots voted leave. The market for the other 60% of votes in Scotland is very crowded.Scott_P said:
I've noticed that a goodly number of those who say the views of the Scottish 38% need to be listened to tend not to be quite as enthusiastic about listening to the UK 48%.
0 -
Mr. NorthWales, guilt-tripping for donations is a pet hate of mine.0
-
I actually think Arlene Foster is not bad looking, she is just styled badly.Nigel_Foremain said:
She clearly spent too much time sucking on a lemon. Righteous indignation should carry a health warning; "Being outraged can seriously damage your looks"Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
She is certainly better looking than the last several DUP leaders.0 -
To be fair her Father was shot and severely injured on the family farm and as a teenager she was on a school bus bombed by the IRANigel_Foremain said:
She clearly spent too much time sucking on a lemon. Righteous indignation should carry a health warning; "Being outraged can seriously damage your looks"Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
She has reason to be outraged though she is very hard and I am not a fan
0 -
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
0 -
I cannot find a picture that conventional wisdom would describe as moderately good looking. She has what one Irish friend once wittily said " a face that only her mother could love"Gardenwalker said:
Sean Fear has unusual taste in women.Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
Admittedly, Arlene not quite in her 20s here, but not far off.
https://goo.gl/images/z1SgVQ0 -
Surely some mistake? That is Pete Burns, the late singer of Dead and Alive.Gardenwalker said:
Sean Fear has unusual taste in women.Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
Admittedly, Arlene not quite in her 20s here, but not far off.
https://goo.gl/images/z1SgVQ0 -
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.0 -
Isn't royal assent automatic, anyway?Chris said:
Thanks, that's interesting.saddo said:Worth a read. Cooper bill is pointless is the legal opinion.
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/02/25/robert-craig-why-royal-consent-is-required-for-the-proposed-article-50-extension-bill/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
But after reading it, I'm not clear who actually decides whether a bill needs royal consent. The Speaker?0 -
A PPE doesn't seem as though it trains anyone to be very useful.Gardenwalker said:
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.0 -
'Tis not a very high bar, but I will grant you that one.Gardenwalker said:
I actually think Arlene Foster is not bad looking, she is just styled badly.Nigel_Foremain said:
She clearly spent too much time sucking on a lemon. Righteous indignation should carry a health warning; "Being outraged can seriously damage your looks"Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
She is certainly better looking than the last several DUP leaders.0 -
If you believe people vote for the least worst option rather than actively voting for a party, the ex-Labour non-Marxist centre ground one is likely to be a popular option.Nigelb said:
All of which perhaps explains the independent group’s plan to form a party ‘before the year end’. Not much point setting any plans in stone before the Labour conference.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tom Watson could make it permanent. Move against him and he could take enough mps with him to TIG to make TIG the largest opposition groupTheJezziah said:
If he got into a tizzy every time a Labour MP kicked off he'd knacker himself out. Best to let them shout loudly for a while get the worst of it out of their system then deal with any reasonable complaints once they've calmed down.Slackbladder said:
It's a nice day on the allotments, plenty of turning over to do..Peter_the_Punter said:
So where the hell is the Leader on all this?CarlottaVance said:
Where was the Leader this morning when Jon Lansman was being questioned on Radio 4 about the Party's psoition on AS and a possible 2nd referendum?
Hard to defend a Leader who is as inactive as Corbyn on such vital policy matters.
Not much to do in the short term but enjoy some relaxing time in the sunshine down the allotments.
If Watson were to be ejected - which is undoubtedly a possible outcome - it would make for a very interesting period of politics. To seriously contest for power, the new group would have to attract disaffected Conservative voters along with non-Marxist Labour ones....0 -
Having your father shot and dragging himself bleeding into your home which you then have to flee, and being on a school bus that was blown up might lend one to a serious disposition.Nigel_Foremain said:
She clearly spent too much time sucking on a lemon. Righteous indignation should carry a health warning; "Being outraged can seriously damage your looks"Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
0 -
I didn't "need" to, but I did, and I think it helped me a lot. Though without the help of a parallel universe I will never know how much.Gardenwalker said:
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.0 -
Just flashed up on the Guardian site (or at least I've just seen it!)
'The government may promise its assessment of the impact of a no-deal Brexit promised to Anna Soubry (see 11.07am) as early as tomorrow, HuffPost’s Paul Waugh reports.'
I presume that means publish it, but knowing this Government .....0 -
Most people don't NEED to do anything other than eat, drink, sleep and defecate.Gardenwalker said:
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.
The point is most people benefit from going to University. Their life is enriched. They often benefit in ways unconnected with their course of study.
Please try and emerge from the darkness of your Remainer burrow.0 -
To be honest I would prefer people who can solve problems at 18 to anyone at 21. The typical degree apprentice I see at the companies I visit is far more interesting than the graduate on a scheme 3 years older.Gardenwalker said:
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.0 -
Fair point. There are others who have suffered terrible trauma who don't feel the need to look permanently stern though.CarlottaVance said:
Having your father shot and dragging himself bleeding into your home which you then have to flee, and being on a school bus that was blown up might lend one to a serious disposition.Nigel_Foremain said:
She clearly spent too much time sucking on a lemon. Righteous indignation should carry a health warning; "Being outraged can seriously damage your looks"Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
0 -
On a more cheerful note, if Mercedes have indeed picked the wrong development direction under the new F1 regs, Ferrari will get to build a lead over perhaps half the season:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, guilt-tripping for donations is a pet hate of mine.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-front-wing-change-months/4343462/
I still think the two teams ought to be similar odds for the championship until we see them runnning in race conditions.
This is one occasion where Wolff is not bullshitting. He genuinely can’t know - and he’s certainly right that reworking the design philosophy of the car would be a time consuming process.
0 -
We'd see the 'kinder, gentler politics' in full-on action.MikeSmithson said:0 -
That's why I said runs the risk. It depends what he tries to do and how much support he has. If its just a forum for being terribly cross about everything and saying what they would prefer to happen its nonsense. If Watsons lot become separate whips then labour is possibly over. Corbyn and co will not be letting go nowMikeSmithson said:
Don't think so. What if it decides how to vote on key matters in defiance of Corbyn?dyedwoolie said:Toms group runs the risk of being kids on the school council. Loud, full of energy and ignored
0 -
My elder son left school at 16 and did a 'classic' electronic engineering apprenticeship, then at 21 or so decided to get a degree. Which he did. He is now, sometimes, as a senior manager in a high tech industry, faced with young graduates who can prepare something in theory, but when he tells them to go away and make it to be sure it works are lost.eek said:
To be honest I would prefer people who can solve problems at 18 to anyone at 21. The typical degree apprentice I see at the companies I visit is far more interesting than the graduate on a scheme 3 years older.Gardenwalker said:
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.0 -
You are one to talk about burrows. For some reason you are often cantankerous about quite mundane topics. Get out an enjoy the dying sunshine.YBarddCwsc said:
Most people don't NEED to do anything other than eat, drink, sleep and defecate.Gardenwalker said:
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.
The point is most people benefit from going to University. Their life is enriched. They often benefit in ways unconnected with their course of study.
Please try and emerge from the darkness of your Remainer burrow.
My point is a serious one.
We send huge numbers of people to university, saddling them with debt, when they are probably better off working or apprenticing in the old-fashioned way.
Given various demands on the public purse (look at A&E waiting times for example), I’d rather the government deflate the university bubble, perhaps reserving its subsidies for poorer pupils who show academic potential, and beefing up participation in maths and sciences.
0 -
There is something distasteful about Remainer posters treating female politicians as candidates for the Miss Pb.com Beauty Competition.Gardenwalker said:
Sean Fear has unusual taste in women.Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
Admittedly, Arlene not quite in her 20s here, but not far off.
https://goo.gl/images/z1SgVQ0 -
If the Tories choose a new leader with broad appeal then you may be correct. Unfortunately If the MPs give the Tory membership a choice that includes a right-wing headbanger then that is who they will choose. If that happens they will be very vulnerable to Corbyn going and being replaced by someone without the anti-semitic and terrorist baggage.Pulpstar said:
Strategically if the Tories could get Brexit and a leadership change out the way it'd likely be an amazing result at the ballot box to face Labour and Uncle Tom Cobley's Tiggers.Philip_Thompson said:
If Watson leaves it won't be with a few dozen MPs. If Watson goes the numbers following would probably not just push Tiggers past the SNP but past Labour too.Harris_Tweed said:
Isn't that a "careful what you wish for" scenario for Team Corbyn?Richard_Nabavi said:If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):
Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.
So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.
Surely, even from their purist point of view, they need a critical mass of Blairite/Brownite running dogs to make any headway in parliament? If Watson leaves with a few dozen more moderates.. they'll be in a very poor position.
If the dam breaks Corbyn can't rely upon half of his MPs.0 -
I read it that any back bencher bill needs a minister to present it to her maj for signing, so they can stop it at that stage. It's also saying, Cooper's bill is unconstitutional anyway.Chris said:
Thanks, that's interesting.saddo said:Worth a read. Cooper bill is pointless is the legal opinion.
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/02/25/robert-craig-why-royal-consent-is-required-for-the-proposed-article-50-extension-bill/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
But after reading it, I'm not clear who actually decides whether a bill needs royal consent. The Speaker?0 -
Said the grump of Llanshitty.YBarddCwsc said:
There is something distasteful about Remainer posters treating female politicians as candidates for the Miss Pb.com Beauty Competition.Gardenwalker said:
Sean Fear has unusual taste in women.Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
Admittedly, Arlene not quite in her 20s here, but not far off.
https://goo.gl/images/z1SgVQ0 -
Royal consent and assent are two different things. The former being denied a lot more often than the latter (by ministers, not HM)IanB2 said:
Isn't royal assent automatic, anyway?Chris said:
Thanks, that's interesting.saddo said:Worth a read. Cooper bill is pointless is the legal opinion.
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/02/25/robert-craig-why-royal-consent-is-required-for-the-proposed-article-50-extension-bill/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
But after reading it, I'm not clear who actually decides whether a bill needs royal consent. The Speaker?0 -
Mr. B, if that's accurate, I wonder where Red Bull stand.
Leclerc top 3 *might* be a value bet. But hard to say.0 -
Might not some of the ex-Labour Tiggers now have second thoughts and wish to join Watson's group?MikeSmithson said:
Don't think so. What if it decides how to vote on key matters in defiance of Corbyn?dyedwoolie said:Toms group runs the risk of being kids on the school council. Loud, full of energy and ignored
0 -
Oh stop being so pompous you plonker! If you look at my original post you will see that I also mentioned Corbyn and Davis Davis. No doubt you are the type that talks of "Political correctness gone mad"!YBarddCwsc said:
There is something distasteful about Remainer posters treating female politicians as candidates for the Miss Pb.com Beauty Competition.Gardenwalker said:
Sean Fear has unusual taste in women.Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
Admittedly, Arlene not quite in her 20s here, but not far off.
https://goo.gl/images/z1SgVQ0 -
F1: Ferrari are still 2.87 for the Constructors on Ladbrokes.
Leclerc's 6.5 for the title but a fifth the odds for top 3, which is getting a bit tight. If I were backing one, I'd likely go for the former rather than the latter.0 -
I do feel that my sons, who both went to University (as adults) are perhaps more rounded individuals than my daughter, who did articles. Of course both sons had an extra advantage in that they did part of their courses in other countries; elder son in Germany, younger in the US.Gardenwalker said:
You are one to talk about burrows. For some reason you are often cantankerous about quite mundane topics. Get out an enjoy the dying sunshine.YBarddCwsc said:
Most people don't NEED to do anything other than eat, drink, sleep and defecate.Gardenwalker said:
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.
The point is most people benefit from going to University. Their life is enriched. They often benefit in ways unconnected with their course of study.
Please try and emerge from the darkness of your Remainer burrow.
My point is a serious one.
We send huge numbers of people to university, saddling them with debt, when they are probably better off working or apprenticing in the old-fashioned way.
Given various demands on the public purse (look at A&E waiting times for example), I’d rather the government deflate the university bubble, perhaps reserving its subsidies for poorer pupils who show academic potential, and beefing up participation in maths and sciences.0 -
I am no more useless now than I was before 'reading' PPE!OldKingCole said:
A PPE doesn't seem as though it trains anyone to be very useful.Gardenwalker said:
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.0 -
I'm simply pointing out what the Face of Remainerdom is like on pb.com.Gardenwalker said:
Said the grump of Llanshitty.YBarddCwsc said:
There is something distasteful about Remainer posters treating female politicians as candidates for the Miss Pb.com Beauty Competition.Gardenwalker said:
Sean Fear has unusual taste in women.Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
Admittedly, Arlene not quite in her 20s here, but not far off.
https://goo.gl/images/z1SgVQ
"Save Our Universities for the Elite, Most Don't need to Go."
"Let's Grade all our Female Politicians on whether they're Good-Looking."
"Let Me Boast about How My Kids have a Nanny."
And, then, Gardenwanker, you are puzzled as to why Remain Lost.0 -
Is that because you didn't read it too closely?SandyRentool said:
I am no more useless now than I was before 'reading' PPE!OldKingCole said:
A PPE doesn't seem as though it trains anyone to be very useful.Gardenwalker said:
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.0 -
The first three lines of your post were good. The last one suggested that if you have a university education it didn't do you much good. By-the-way, university does not need a capital U, unless you are referring to a proper noun, eg. Cambridge University, where you, no doubt, did not go.YBarddCwsc said:
Most people don't NEED to do anything other than eat, drink, sleep and defecate.Gardenwalker said:
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.
The point is most people benefit from going to University. Their life is enriched. They often benefit in ways unconnected with their course of study.
Please try and emerge from the darkness of your Remainer burrow.0 -
Errr....Are you offering like? February is always a state of shock after the payment on 31.1.RobD said:
As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.AndyJS said:"Britain’s Big Squeeze
‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist
Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html0 -
Oh dear, that post really did demonstrate a very limited education.YBarddCwsc said:
I'm simply pointing out what the Face of Remainerdom is like on pb.com.Gardenwalker said:
Said the grump of Llanshitty.YBarddCwsc said:
There is something distasteful about Remainer posters treating female politicians as candidates for the Miss Pb.com Beauty Competition.Gardenwalker said:
Sean Fear has unusual taste in women.Sean_F said:
Arlene Foster was good looking in her twenties. Some people age very rapidly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Didn't someone once say that politics is show business for ugly people? When you look at Jeremy Corbyn, Arlene Foster and David Davis you can't deny it is a good quip.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I wouldn't mind the glorious thespians giving themselves congratulatory gold statuettes to celebrate their own magnificence if they didn't cram in all the political bullshit as well.
Admittedly, Arlene not quite in her 20s here, but not far off.
https://goo.gl/images/z1SgVQ
"Save Our Universities for the Elite, Most Don't need to Go."
"Let's Grade all our Female Politicians on whether they're Good-Looking."
"Let Me Boast about How My Kids have a Nanny."
And, then, Gardenwanker, you are puzzled as to why Remain Lost.0 -
An engineering degree might have been more useful for you this morning.SandyRentool said:
I am no more useless now than I was before 'reading' PPE!OldKingCole said:
A PPE doesn't seem as though it trains anyone to be very useful.Gardenwalker said:
Most people don’t need to go to university.OldKingCole said:
I think it's been a given for a while that a law degree isn't very useful. At one point, when I was about 17 and had no idea what I was going to 'do', my father suggested law, but as a 'scientist' I'd dropped both History and Latin at the end of the Third Form, so that wasn't really a runner. However, later in life I came across three pharmacists who had, once they'd got their pharmacy degrees, done a conversion course...... which I think was the one year at law school, but might have been more....... and did very well.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr C, I think it is more specialised than doing a degree, perhaps orientated to the firm's specialised areas. A law degree will still require the person to go to law school afterwards for a year anyway and then doing their training (used to be called articled clerk). You have to question whether a law degree is really worth the money.
It is one of the rackets of modern life, although it is rather taboo to say so because It sounds like elitism.0
