Wouldn't be at all surprised if business, especially big business, quickly comes out of the blocks behind the referendum plan.
An interesting potential unholy alliance with Corbyn. Puts the Tories under pressure there as well. Especially from a number of their own donors. Interesting.
Big business is not popular with the voters, these days.
It is when they provide a lot of local jobs - Swindon, Sunderland, etc. That's where it connects.
Probably not even there. I think people view large companies in much the same light as politicians.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if business, especially big business, quickly comes out of the blocks behind the referendum plan.
An interesting potential unholy alliance with Corbyn. Puts the Tories under pressure there as well. Especially from a number of their own donors. Interesting.
Big business is not popular with the voters, these days.
It is when they provide a lot of local jobs - Swindon, Sunderland, etc. That's where it connects.
Probably not even there. I think people view large companies in much the same light as politicians.
At a minimum, it is an interesting straw in the wind for the Conservatives to be on the other side of the argument to business if that transpires.
Probably a short to medium term benefit for the TIG there, if they adopt a moderate, and still broadly business friendly, position.
But boy is this going to be handy ammunition for rejoiners in the post-Brexit debate. It was a Tory Brexit pushed in the face of opinion polls opposing Brexit. And a referendum refused despite being called for by every other opposition party, huge crowds of demonstrators and even in the face of splits in the Tory Party itself.
How undemocratic.
They can have their second vote after we enact the first. That is democracy.
A second referendum is not all that popular with the public.
I thought the quarter of a million who go marching for it were all that counts.
After all, they do contain all of the great and the good.
But boy is this going to be handy ammunition for rejoiners in the post-Brexit debate. It was a Tory Brexit pushed in the face of opinion polls opposing Brexit. And a referendum refused despite being called for by every other opposition party, huge crowds of demonstrators and even in the face of splits in the Tory Party itself.
How undemocratic.
They can have their second vote after we enact the first. That is democracy.
A second referendum is not all that popular with the public.
If they see it as a plausible end point to the current ongoing shambles then it might be very soon.
Don't the polls vary wildly depending on how you ask the question?
i.e. if you ask the voters, Do you want a 2nd EU referendum, then they say NO, bigtime. However, if you ask them, Do you want a final say on The Deal? then they say YES.
Hence the phrase "people's vote", used very deliberately by those clamouring for a 2nd referendum.
FWIW I think there is a just-about-democratic case for a Final Vote on the Deal, even if it is messy and unhappy. But it should be done in two stages as suggested by some here. 1st vote on TMay's deal Yes or No. If No, then we have vote 2: Remain or No Deal Exit.
A double referendum would have been fine, had it been agreed in 2015, although it would have resulted in bigger win for Leave, on the first vote.
Indeed it would. A largely risk-free hit for reopen negotiations.
As it is, the referendum was sold as the final word.
But boy is this going to be handy ammunition for rejoiners in the post-Brexit debate. It was a Tory Brexit pushed in the face of opinion polls opposing Brexit. And a referendum refused despite being called for by every other opposition party, huge crowds of demonstrators and even in the face of splits in the Tory Party itself.
How undemocratic.
They can have their second vote after we enact the first. That is democracy.
How do you get the previous vote enacted? I'm no closer to seeing a means of leaving now than I was 6 months ago...
MPs abide by the will of the people. There is a deal on the table. It may not be perfect but it is a deal that fulfils the instruction of the referendum. Alternatively leave without a deal. They have always been the two legitimate choices. What they cannot do is claim they agree with the referendum result (as the overwhelming majority of them did) but then refuse to enact either a deal or No Deal.
As a footnote to this, if you follow this logic, the "overwhelming majority" does of course exclude the SNP: they voted against holding the referendum, and given its advisory status, there's no reason they should be held to implementing its result.
Oh I agree. But then I have long campaigned for Scottish Independence as well. As I have said on here before I find it logically incoherent to argue for British Independence from the EU on democracy and accountability terms but then to deny those are valid arguments for Scottish Independence.
I have absolutely no issue with those MPs who voted against the referendum and against the enacting of Article 50. They are at least being consistent in their beliefs.
Pondering what the Jeremy Corbyn Referendum announcement might mean once the immediate headline has died.
1 We leave on 29 March by operation of law so there is no time for one. Obvious
2 Delay is not in JCs gift, nor even in UK gift, though it would probably happen in propitious circumstances. The opposition wanting a referendum isn't enough of a reason.
3 Jezza has been notably coy in what he means by 2nd referendum. If he was being straightforward he would be less so.
4 An actual 2nd referendum on remain/leave is, to say the least, both risky and divisive and there is no reason to think it would solve anything.
5 The remaining thing which makes sense is to back the WA, (but perhaps not the PD) at least by letting it through on Labour abstentions, and THEN but only after leaving have some sort of people's vote.
6 Remain can't be on the list because we would have left. Mandate delivered. Referendum period over. Rejoin then becomes a new perfectly proper and respect worthy position.
7 The WA leaves lots of Brexit possibilities open from Rejoin to Norway via Canada, and vitally gives the UK time to suck it and see.
Is it possible that Jezza's mystical utterances will prove to be about people's votes after leaving, not before? And might this crack his problem of needing to support leave in the north and remain in the south?
1 and 2 are the killer punch and the reason I have consistently said no referendum is possible. It would take months to organise. Even with an extension (which can't be guaranteed especially if Spain thinks through the implications for Gibraltar of this long overdue victory for the Chagos Islanders) we don't have that.
Even if the motion passes I don’t see how they enforce it as Government policy.
The vast majority of those opposed come from the Governing party’s benches.
I think the Government would need an alternative plan that is deliverable in that scenario though. Will they have one? Would need the ERG to come full circle, minimum.
But boy is this going to be handy ammunition for rejoiners in the post-Brexit debate. It was a Tory Brexit pushed in the face of opinion polls opposing Brexit. And a referendum refused despite being called for by every other opposition party, huge crowds of demonstrators and even in the face of splits in the Tory Party itself.
How undemocratic.
They can have their second vote after we enact the first. That is democracy.
A second referendum is not all that popular with the public.
If they see it as a plausible end point to the current ongoing shambles then it might be very soon.
Don't the polls vary wildly depending on how you ask the question?
i.e. if you ask the voters, Do you want a 2nd EU referendum, then they say NO, bigtime. However, if you ask them, Do you want a final say on The Deal? then they say YES.
Hence the phrase "people's vote", used very deliberately by those clamouring for a 2nd referendum.
FWIW I think there is a just-about-democratic case for a Final Vote on the Deal, even if it is messy and unhappy. But it should be done in two stages as suggested by some here. 1st vote on TMay's deal Yes or No. If No, then we have vote 2: Remain or No Deal Exit.
A double referendum would have been fine, had it been agreed in 2015, although it would have resulted in bigger win for Leave, on the first vote.
Indeed it would. A largely risk-free hit for reopen negotiations.
As it is, the referendum was sold as the final word.
Can someone who reads Hansard all day explain to my shrivelled brain when this Labour policy will be tested in the Commons? Will it be this week with Cooper wotsit, or the new Meaningful Vote in March?
We are 33 days from Brexit. Incredible it has come down to this, at the bitter end. It reminds me of a really really REALLY shit version of Flintoff's Ashes.
We're nowhere near the bitter end yet, not even at the end of the bitter middle imo.
I don't get how that's surprising?! Even when Corbyn was saying he didn't think there should be another referendum, he still said he would vote Remain should one come about:
Not really. Nobody ever seriously thought she would be leader. And I don't think the pseudo-Colonel would add much intellectual heft to the Tiggers.
Oh, sorry, you mean you think this shows Corbyn will campaign for Remain? Hardly. I'll take his word that he voted Remain, but he obviously doesn't care enough about Europe to bestir himself on its behalf. And even if he did, given how divisive he is that might guarantee a Leave win.
But boy is this going to be handy ammunition for rejoiners in the post-Brexit debate. It was a Tory Brexit pushed in the face of opinion polls opposing Brexit. And a referendum refused despite being called for by every other opposition party, huge crowds of demonstrators and even in the face of splits in the Tory Party itself.
How undemocratic.
They can have their second vote after we enact the first. That is democracy.
How do you get the previous vote enacted? I'm no closer to seeing a means of leaving now than I was 6 months ago...
MPs abide by the will of the people. There is a deal on the table. It may not be perfect but it is a deal that fulfils the instruction of the referendum. Alternatively leave without a deal. They have always been the two legitimate choices. What they cannot do is claim they agree with the referendum result (as the overwhelming majority of them did) but then refuse to enact either a deal or No Deal.
As a footnote to this, if you follow this logic, the "overwhelming majority" does of course exclude the SNP: they voted against holding the referendum, and given its advisory status, there's no reason they should be held to implementing its result.
Oh I agree. But then I have long campaigned for Scottish Independence as well. As I have said on here before I find it logically incoherent to argue for British Independence from the EU on democracy and accountability terms but then to deny those are valid arguments for Scottish Independence.
Does this go for say Yorkshire and say Cornwall as well?
Not making a Brexit argument here but where do you draw the line, how small is small enough to meet the requirements to be democratic and accountable?
I understand the EU is a little different to the UK but would you say the UK isn't democratic and accountable in a way that smaller divisions would be, like say Yorkshire or Scotland, though they still contain millions of people so I can't see a massive difference in democratic terms.
They strike me as democratic either way, the people of Yorkshire are not disenfranchised IMO.
I don't get how that's surprising?! Even when Corbyn was saying he didn't think there should be another referendum, he still said he would vote Remain should one come about:
Not sure they have lost them. Once this is resolved, apart from a hard core, will people will still be fighting for Brexit rather than voting for the state of the NHS? The conservatives also wouldn't necessarily be the net beneficiary either. More likely to be UKIP 2.
I don't get how that's surprising?! Even when Corbyn was saying he didn't think there should be another referendum, he still said he would vote Remain should one come about:
It's big news if they are already saying they will campaign for remain before a referendum is voted on. I'd assumed, given how reluctant to move toward a referendum at all, that Labour would hem and haw a bit about doing that first.
But boy is this going to be handy ammunition for rejoiners in the post-Brexit debate. It was a Tory Brexit pushed in the face of opinion polls opposing Brexit. And a referendum refused despite being called for by every other opposition party, huge crowds of demonstrators and even in the face of splits in the Tory Party itself.
How undemocratic.
They can have their second vote after we enact the first. That is democracy.
A second referendum is not all that popular with the public.
If they see it as a plausible end point to the current ongoing shambles then it might be very soon.
Don't the polls vary wildly depending on how you ask the question?
i.e. if you ask the voters, Do you want a 2nd EU referendum, then they say NO, bigtime. However, if you ask them, Do you want a final say on The Deal? then they say YES.
Hence the phrase "people's vote", used very deliberately by those clamouring for a 2nd referendum.
FWIW I think there is a just-about-democratic case for a Final Vote on the Deal, even if it is messy and unhappy. But it should be done in two stages as suggested by some here. 1st vote on TMay's deal Yes or No. If No, then we have vote 2: Remain or No Deal Exit.
A double referendum would have been fine, had it been agreed in 2015, although it would have resulted in bigger win for Leave, on the first vote.
Indeed it would. A largely risk-free hit for reopen negotiations.
As it is, the referendum was sold as the final word.
Not by Leave campaigners it wasn't.
By most of them it was and, by the Government that delivered the referendum as its policy, it was.
Not really. Nobody ever seriously thought she would be leader. And I don't think the pseudo-Colonel would add much intellectual heft to the Tiggers.
Oh, sorry, you mean you think this shows Corbyn will campaign for Remain? Hardly. I'll take his word that he voted Remain, but he obviously doesn't care enough about Europe to bestir himself on its behalf. And even if he did, given how divisive he is that might guarantee a Leave win.
I don't think Corbyn would be particularly energetic in a remain backing campaign. But that is hardly the point, the point was how much Remain would be the position and how soon they would switch to it.
I don't get how that's surprising?! Even when Corbyn was saying he didn't think there should be another referendum, he still said he would vote Remain should one come about:
It’s too early to say what this is, let alone what the implications of what it will mean. But it makes a change from May’s slow death march.
Agree with that. It reminds me of the bit in Game of Thrones (around season 5?) when it stopped being so damn confusing, however entertaining, and the final battle-lines could be just about glimpsed through the mist.
One wonders how the EU will respond to a second referendum’s new lease of life. They don’t need to appease May if there’s a chance they could keep us in the EU otherwise.
They were never going to appeae May, beyond minor face-saving, which is still on.
I don't get how that's surprising?! Even when Corbyn was saying he didn't think there should be another referendum, he still said he would vote Remain should one come about:
PB is filled with people repeatedly saying Corbyn is a hard Brexiteer, he voted leave etc. despite people on the left who know Corbyn saying otherwise people like to believe whatever suits their political biases.
Even now you'll have people convinced that Keir tricked him or something.
One wonders how the EU will respond to a second referendum’s new lease of life. They don’t need to appease May if there’s a chance they could keep us in the EU otherwise.
They were never going to appeae May, beyond minor face-saving, which is still on.
Why even do that? The more they dig in their heels the less May has to use as a fig leaf and more people run from no deal.
If its that straightforward, why was Thornberry wearing chain mail as she said it
Not sure it means much.
If it came to that Corbyn would “campaign” for Remain like he did last time, saying that his Brexit deal would have been better but the Government screwed it up, and we can still Leave the EU one day in future.
Maybe he’ll give it just a 6 out of 10 this time for good measure.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if business, especially big business, quickly comes out of the blocks behind the referendum plan.
An interesting potential unholy alliance with Corbyn. Puts the Tories under pressure there as well. Especially from a number of their own donors. Interesting.
Big business is not popular with the voters, these days.
It is when they provide a lot of local jobs - Swindon, Sunderland, etc. That's where it connects.
Probably not even there. I think people view large companies in much the same light as politicians.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if business, especially big business, quickly comes out of the blocks behind the referendum plan.
An interesting potential unholy alliance with Corbyn. Puts the Tories under pressure there as well. Especially from a number of their own donors. Interesting.
Big business is not popular with the voters, these days.
It is when they provide a lot of local jobs - Swindon, Sunderland, etc. That's where it connects.
Probably not even there. I think people view large companies in much the same light as politicians.
At a minimum, it is an interesting straw in the wind for the Conservatives to be on the other side of the argument to business if that transpires.
Probably a short to medium term benefit for the TIG there, if they adopt a moderate, and still broadly business friendly, position.
It's certainly the case that thirty years ago, most Conservative voters thought their interests and those of big business coincided, whereas now they don't.
I don't get how that's surprising?! Even when Corbyn was saying he didn't think there should be another referendum, he still said he would vote Remain should one come about:
Vote and campaign are two different things. I voted Remain, I wouldn't have campaigned for it.
Not sure Remain2 would want Corbyn capaigning for us tbh.
Because he is the most popular Labour politician (yougov) and the most positive figure associated with remain (from some podcast I listened to a while back) which I guess was based on a mix of liking the person and associating them with remain or leave.
Who else? Blair? Chuka?
I imagine you have different campaigns but if remain is to be selective about who can campaign for it then what politician doesn't put people off?
I think a sensible second referendum would have been to have a "where are we and what do we want" job in the aftermath of the original vote and before article 50. A sort of scoping out with different choices of closeness / red lines, a bit like how the Danes voted separately in a spread of opt-outs. Would have been useful to know if the public "meant" for us to leave the common market, freedom of movement etc.
I don't get how that's surprising?! Even when Corbyn was saying he didn't think there should be another referendum, he still said he would vote Remain should one come about:
Vote and campaign are two different things. I voted Remain, I wouldn't have campaigned for it.
Not sure Remain2 would want Corbyn capaigning for us tbh.
Because he is the most popular Labour politician (yougov) and the most positive figure associated with remain (from some podcast I listened to a while back) which I guess was based on a mix of liking the person and associating them with remain or leave.
Who else? Blair? Chuka?
I imagine you have different campaigns but if remain is to be selective about who can campaign for it then what politician doesn't put people off?
Blair is at least intelligent, coherent and engages with his opponents. He's also duplicitous, deceitful and manipulative, but so is Corbyn.
Did he ever have an approval rating of -47? Genuine question (where's Justin when you need him)?
I don't get how that's surprising?! Even when Corbyn was saying he didn't think there should be another referendum, he still said he would vote Remain should one come about:
Vote and campaign are two different things. I voted Remain, I wouldn't have campaigned for it.
Not sure Remain2 would want Corbyn capaigning for us tbh.
Because he is the most popular Labour politician (yougov) and the most positive figure associated with remain (from some podcast I listened to a while back) which I guess was based on a mix of liking the person and associating them with remain or leave.
Who else? Blair? Chuka?
I imagine you have different campaigns but if remain is to be selective about who can campaign for it then what politician doesn't put people off?
Remain won't have to sideline Jezza - he'll do that himself.
Even know you'll have people convinced that Keir tricked him or something.
Don't be ridiculous. Nobody who has studied Starmer's legal career thinks he is capable of any sort of ingenious trickery!
Continually promoted out of harms way?
Given the avoidable messes he landed himself in over Warboys, assisted suicide, press freedom, etc. I wouldn't have described him as 'out of harm's way'...
Wouldn't be at all surprised if business, especially big business, quickly comes out of the blocks behind the referendum plan.
An interesting potential unholy alliance with Corbyn. Puts the Tories under pressure there as well. Especially from a number of their own donors. Interesting.
Big business is not popular with the voters, these days.
It is when they provide a lot of local jobs - Swindon, Sunderland, etc. That's where it connects.
Probably not even there. I think people view large companies in much the same light as politicians.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if business, especially big business, quickly comes out of the blocks behind the referendum plan.
An interesting potential unholy alliance with Corbyn. Puts the Tories under pressure there as well. Especially from a number of their own donors. Interesting.
Big business is not popular with the voters, these days.
It is when they provide a lot of local jobs - Swindon, Sunderland, etc. That's where it connects.
Probably not even there. I think people view large companies in much the same light as politicians.
At a minimum, it is an interesting straw in the wind for the Conservatives to be on the other side of the argument to business if that transpires.
Probably a short to medium term benefit for the TIG there, if they adopt a moderate, and still broadly business friendly, position.
It's certainly the case that thirty years ago, most Conservative voters thought their interests and those of big business coincided, whereas now they don't.
Whose interests do now, apart from those who attend Davos?
Williamson seems to go out of his way to be as divisive as some on the right of the party who left. It is fine to be ideological, there isn't any need to act like a dick, which is exactly why I was happy some that left did so.
*If* Labour come out for a Referendum, this will simply bring out the tribalism in the Tories, won’t it?
I still can’t see how the PV has the numbers in Parliament. The PVers need to throw the Norway Plus lot a bone.
Yup, there's no majority for a PV, the potential majority is for *TMay's deal, subject to a PV* which is hardly anybody's first choice. I don't think it's clear whether Corbyn would go for that, and to be sure of passing it still needs support, or at least a lack of active opposition, from TMay.
Even know you'll have people convinced that Keir tricked him or something.
Don't be ridiculous. Nobody who has studied Starmer's legal career thinks he is capable of any sort of ingenious trickery!
Continually promoted out of harms way?
Given the avoidable messes he landed himself in over Warboys, assisted suicide, press freedom, etc. I wouldn't have described him as 'out of harm's way'...
At that time he had nowhere left to go except a sideways move that took some time to engineer. Elections don't occur weekly you know....
As a Labour supporter they just saved my vote but a second EU ref isn’t happening . The likely outcome now is the Maybot drones on about deal or another EU ref to the ERG who might finally accept they need to quit whilst they’re winning or take their chances with a second vote .
Mays deal passes with the help of Labour rebels and that’s that .
My gut tells me this is big. That the odds of a referendum (if not Remain) just shot up significantly.
My head tells a PV does not have the numbers.
However, perhaps even now, May is sitting in a pool table at Sharm el Sheikh, laughing that now that Corbyn has made the first move she can FINALLY begin the climb down.
*If* Labour come out for a Referendum, this will simply bring out the tribalism in the Tories, won’t it?
I still can’t see how the PV has the numbers in Parliament. The PVers need to throw the Norway Plus lot a bone.
Yup, there's no majority for a PV, the potential majority is for *TMay's deal, subject to a PV* which is hardly anybody's first choice. I don't think it's clear whether Corbyn would go for that, and to be sure of passing it still needs support, or at least a lack of active opposition, from TMay.
That's literally what he just said he'll be supporting (the Peter Kyle amendment)...
*If* Labour come out for a Referendum, this will simply bring out the tribalism in the Tories, won’t it?
I still can’t see how the PV has the numbers in Parliament. The PVers need to throw the Norway Plus lot a bone.
Yup, there's no majority for a PV, the potential majority is for *TMay's deal, subject to a PV* which is hardly anybody's first choice.I don't think it's clear whether Corbyn would go for that, and to be sure of passing it still needs support, or at least a lack of active opposition, from TMay.
Worked for Henry VII. Nobody's first choice, everybody's second.
The difficulty with that scenario is timing. Given the complexities, would the EU give as a long enough extension for it? I'm pretty doubtful about it.
Keep saying it Big G if it makes you feel better. But you are wrong.
You are wrong to take Labour leave votes for granted as not going to Labour in a general election.
You may not even be right that it was Labour votes that made key difference in those areas called leave constituency’s. 2017 GE hints at such. The reason is, in 2016, up and down the country, polling stations didn't get all the usual faces, but quite a lot of faces who don't go in there very often, if at all. The rationale was voting leave because remain belonged to the political establishment these voters think never listens to them and has hollowed out their communities with globalisation and austerity. Not a rationale that suggests they rush into arms of long standing conservative government.
That’s my reasoning why your statement is wrong. Where’s your reasoning supporting your statement.
I don't get how that's surprising?! Even when Corbyn was saying he didn't think there should be another referendum, he still said he would vote Remain should one come about:
Vote and campaign are two different things. I voted Remain, I wouldn't have campaigned for it.
Not sure Remain2 would want Corbyn capaigning for us tbh.
Because he is the most popular Labour politician (yougov) and the most positive figure associated with remain (from some podcast I listened to a while back) which I guess was based on a mix of liking the person and associating them with remain or leave.
Who else? Blair? Chuka?
I imagine you have different campaigns but if remain is to be selective about who can campaign for it then what politician doesn't put people off?
Remain won't have to sideline Jezza - he'll do that himself.
TBH I think if he campaigns like last time the difference will be the media won't ignore it this time and concentrate on the Tory leadership contest over it.
*If* Labour come out for a Referendum, this will simply bring out the tribalism in the Tories, won’t it?
I still can’t see how the PV has the numbers in Parliament. The PVers need to throw the Norway Plus lot a bone.
Yup, there's no majority for a PV, the potential majority is for *TMay's deal, subject to a PV* which is hardly anybody's first choice. I don't think it's clear whether Corbyn would go for that, and to be sure of passing it still needs support, or at least a lack of active opposition, from TMay.
But that seems - to my great surprise - what Labour are promising.
Like SNP, Lib Dems, and TIG, they will support May’s Deal subject to a referendum - or rather, a referendum on May’s Deal which amounts to the same thing.
Comments
The vast majority of those opposed come from the Governing party’s benches.
The vast majority of those opposed come from the Governing party’s benches.
Probably a short to medium term benefit for the TIG there, if they adopt a moderate, and still broadly business friendly, position.
As it is, the referendum was sold as the final word.
I have absolutely no issue with those MPs who voted against the referendum and against the enacting of Article 50. They are at least being consistent in their beliefs.
hmm
As it is, seeing the official opposition in this state is tragic.
This will come as a surprise, but in my opinion Thornberry has cleverly positioned herself to take over from THE JEZ.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/12/jeremy-corbyn-says-would-vote-remain-second-eu-referendum
Oh, sorry, you mean you think this shows Corbyn will campaign for Remain? Hardly. I'll take his word that he voted Remain, but he obviously doesn't care enough about Europe to bestir himself on its behalf. And even if he did, given how divisive he is that might guarantee a Leave win.
Not making a Brexit argument here but where do you draw the line, how small is small enough to meet the requirements to be democratic and accountable?
I understand the EU is a little different to the UK but would you say the UK isn't democratic and accountable in a way that smaller divisions would be, like say Yorkshire or Scotland, though they still contain millions of people so I can't see a massive difference in democratic terms.
They strike me as democratic either way, the people of Yorkshire are not disenfranchised IMO.
Lads Brexit's over*, hurrah for the ERG.
It'll be extend Article 50 and then legislate for another referendum.
*I may have placed a semantic burden on over.
So I think we have just seen a load of smoke and mirrors that comes to nothing.
Just a glimpse, mind you.
I wouldn’t take too much stock of anything he says.
Even now you'll have people convinced that Keir tricked him or something.
If it came to that Corbyn would “campaign” for Remain like he did last time, saying that his Brexit deal would have been better but the Government screwed it up, and we can still Leave the EU one day in future.
Maybe he’ll give it just a 6 out of 10 this time for good measure.
As anyone who has met him will know from his shirts, TSE's favourite Pizza is (Sans) Ham and Pineapple with extra pineapple.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNt5FnMK2sM
I still can’t see how the PV has the numbers in Parliament. The PVers need to throw the Norway Plus lot a bone.
Who else? Blair? Chuka?
I imagine you have different campaigns but if remain is to be selective about who can campaign for it then what politician doesn't put people off?
Did he ever have an approval rating of -47? Genuine question (where's Justin when you need him)?
Be careful what you wish for chaps...
Mays deal passes with the help of Labour rebels and that’s that .
My head tells a PV does not have the numbers.
However, perhaps even now, May is sitting in a pool table at Sharm el Sheikh, laughing that now that Corbyn has made the first move she can FINALLY begin the climb down.
The difficulty with that scenario is timing. Given the complexities, would the EU give as a long enough extension for it? I'm pretty doubtful about it.
You are wrong to take Labour leave votes for granted as not going to Labour in a general election.
You may not even be right that it was Labour votes that made key difference in those areas called leave constituency’s. 2017 GE hints at such. The reason is, in 2016, up and down the country, polling stations didn't get all the usual faces, but quite a lot of faces who don't go in there very often, if at all. The rationale was voting leave because remain belonged to the political establishment these voters think never listens to them and has hollowed out their communities with globalisation and austerity. Not a rationale that suggests they rush into arms of long standing conservative government.
That’s my reasoning why your statement is wrong. Where’s your reasoning supporting your statement.
How long did the electoral commission say they needed to run a new referendum?
Edit: Hopefully anyway...
You're screwed.
But come October we all will be anyway.
Like SNP, Lib Dems, and TIG, they will support May’s Deal subject to a referendum - or rather, a referendum on May’s Deal which amounts to the same thing.