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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tom Watson plans a new LAB MPs grouping and there’s little Mil

SystemSystem Posts: 12,172
edited February 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tom Watson plans a new LAB MPs grouping and there’s little Milne/McCluskey/Corbyn can do about it

It is very hard to think of any other organisation where a deputy can operate in the manner that Tom Watson is doing at the moment. His response to the defection of nine MPs has been very much to sympathize recognising the culture within the party that led to their decisions. He’s also forwarded to the leadership 50 cases of anti-semitism which he wants investigating.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1100029981026107392
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1100021705773326336
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/1099771187389972483
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1100029981026107392

    Taking Back Control
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    If Corbyn removed the whip ftomwatson where would that leave him under the party constitution?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Tom Watson for Life President.

    Finally someone seems to be serious about dealing with this cancer.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    On Topic.

    Gained his mandate on a lie.

    Would lose any election now.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Two years late, it seem the real fight starts now.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    The constant claims that Jeremy himself is in no way racist from some quarters are missing the point in the way Brown did when he thought the response to expense gate was to say he personally had done nothing wrong (which wasnt true anyway)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited February 2019
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1100029981026107392

    Taking Back Control
    And confirmation that Tom doesn't trust the General Secretary see the tweet below Henry's

    https://twitter.com/Peelite9/status/1100031463179862016
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    dyedwoolie said:

    If Corbyn removed the whip ftomwatson where would that leave him under the party constitution?

    Can he?

    It would leave Watson joining the Tiggers probably. Along with many of the other 170 odd left who voted no confidence in Corbyn.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469
    Labour :D
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/1100033507223576576
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Philip_Thompson said:

    dyedwoolie said:

    If Corbyn removed the whip ftomwatson where would that leave him under the party constitution?

    Can he?

    It would leave Watson joining the Tiggers probably. Along with many of the other 170 odd left who voted no confidence in Corbyn.
    I don't know if he can I'm just imagining what he might do to retain control. I can see him sacking off all but 50 MPs and remaining leader/keeping the party name, funds and ID so the project can be pure.
    Would almost certainly lead to an inevitable GE
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    So will the group stay or will they go?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469
    bigjohnowls said:

    On Topic.

    Gained his mandate on a lie.

    Would lose any election now.

    He should just f*ck off and join the tories right?
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    bigjohnowls said:

    On Topic.

    Gained his mandate on a lie.

    Would lose any election now.

    I'm with you, Tom Watson's actions appear to put at risk my shares in popcorn makers...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    So Watson has set up The Independent Group - Labour Branch.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1100032187976564737
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    And Mike's not even off on holiday!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    As for staving off further defections I think it's likely there are a few more that are unstoppable as they are part of the 'plan'
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    Why don't they just f*ck off and join the Tiggers :D
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    it was Tom Watson in 2016 who initiated what looked like being a series of minsterial resignations which lead to Tony Blair announcing that he would step down the following year

    shome mishtake shurely - ed.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Pulpstar said:

    Why don't they just f*ck off and join the Tiggers :D

    Why doesn't the deputy leader of Labour just fuck off and leave Labour?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited February 2019
    I was going to leave but now Tom is keeping a log of our crapulence I'm in!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited February 2019
    Just when everything's going so well in Labour:

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1099996082489229312

    https://youtu.be/k5mmJQ5NXXc
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited February 2019
    Toms group runs the risk of being kids on the school council. Loud, full of energy and ignored
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    Eric Pickles prescribing the entirity of the 'Party of God' :O ?! Blimey.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    edited February 2019
    CarlottaVance said:

    it was Tom Watson in 2016 who initiated what looked like being a series of minsterial resignations which lead to Tony Blair announcing that he would step down the following year

    shome mishtake shurely - ed.

    deleted
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    IanB2 said:

    So will the group stay or will they go?

    Quite

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=BN1WwnEDWAM
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited February 2019

    I once had my work edited (pro bono) by a professional copyeditor. Among the changes were sixteen misspellings of "led" as "lead".
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Good afternoon, comrades. Do not fear. The detested Mensheviks will be annihilated.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID6hAGzBOrk
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited February 2019
    Magic Cranky Grandad:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/jeremy-corbyn-i-wanted-hamas-to-be-part-of-the-debate
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1100006190245916672
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1100032187976564737

    Translation: "because Jennie Formby sure as hell won't tell me".

    Watson is definitely on a mission from his unique power-base... which will end in one of a bunch of ways, all of which he can probably live with. Frustratingly for Corbyn, he's couching it in loyal language which couldn't at all be construed* as moving against the leadership (*by anyone with a reading age of 9 or less).

    1. Corbyn goes.. he is in pole position for the job.
    2. Corbyn reforms.. Watson is happy to be in Labour again.
    3. Corbyn ignores him.. Watson's new anti-Momentum group grows in stature ahead of whenever the vacancy arises.
    4. Corbyn ignores him.. Watson joins his mate Ian Austin and watches as Corbyn's Lab implodes; becomes leading player in a new grouping.
    5. Corbyn or supporters move against him in some way.. see option 4.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    On topic, I agree with every word of the thread header until the final paragraph. Corbyn is aiming for No Deal because he knows that will be blamed on the Tories. If he swings behind the Deal last minute he'll lose support from Labour Remainers seeing it as facilitating Brexit. The real danger for him is that Brexit happens somehow, isn't a total failure, and he is seen as having done nothing to stop it.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    This keeps reminding my I have some money on Tom Watson as next labour leader from several years ago....
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,752
    CarlottaVance said:

    Just when everything's going so well in Labour:

    https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1099996082489229312

    https://youtu.be/k5mmJQ5NXXc

    Funny that Eric Pickles thinks Hezbollah is being "prescribed". If Hezbollah is the cure, what would the disease be like?

    (Sorry, I mean Hizballah, of course.)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Slackbladder said:

    This keeps reminding my I have some money on Tom Watson as next labour leader from several years ago....

    Me too. On the other hand I also have a bit on Chris Leslie...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Who might run for deputy leader if he is challenged, possibly Thornberry or Burgon ?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1100032187976564737

    So where the hell is the Leader on all this?

    Where was the Leader this morning when Jon Lansman was being questioned on Radio 4 about the Party's psoition on AS and a possible 2nd referendum?

    Hard to defend a Leader who is as inactive as Corbyn on such vital policy matters.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    It really does seem like Waton is breaking party rules here though (not that I know the details of) doesn't it? Is he operating within his mandate or not?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Peter_the_Punter said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1100032187976564737

    So where the hell is the Leader on all this?

    Where was the Leader this morning when Jon Lansman was being questioned on Radio 4 about the Party's psoition on AS and a possible 2nd referendum?

    Hard to defend a Leader who is as inactive as Corbyn on such vital policy matters.
    It's a nice day on the allotments, plenty of turning over to do..
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1100033756088487937/photo/1
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    The magical number to challenge here is 54 Lab MPs/MEPs at the min but depending on if we still have MEPs in a few months and if there are any more leaving for the Tiggers then it might drop. I wonder if considering the number of MPs who VoNC'd Corbyn post EU ref whether there would be enough to support a challenge to Watson.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,687
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Slackbladder said:

    This keeps reminding my I have some money on Tom Watson as next labour leader from several years ago....

    Me too. On the other hand I also have a bit on Chris Leslie...
    I have money on Sir Michael Fallon succeeding Theresa May.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Pulpstar said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Who might run for deputy leader if he is challenged, possibly Thornberry or Burgon ?
    Might one hope for Chris Williamson?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited February 2019
    Tusk on an extension. Everyone's quoting the "doh" part that if TMay can't pass her deal an extension would be rational, but the news is:

    "all the 27 would show maximum understanding and goodwill"

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1100016602882293760
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    RH1992 said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    The magical number to challenge here is 54 Lab MPs/MEPs at the min but depending on if we still have MEPs in a few months and if there are any more leaving for the Tiggers then it might drop. I wonder if considering the number of MPs who VoNC'd Corbyn post EU ref whether there would be enough to support a challenge to Watson.
    Yes, you might be right, they might have trouble getting the numbers.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Would 20% openly oppose Watson?

    Without the Front Bench doing so it would be hard to find 20%
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Pulpstar said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Who might run for deputy leader if he is challenged, possibly Thornberry or Burgon ?
    That rather depends on whether there is a challenge to Corbyn first...
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    He may not be, Richard.

    If my reading of Lansbury's interview on the Today programme this morning is correct, I should say Momentum's paymaster is as effed off with the Leader as anybody.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Tom Watson is turning into a bit of a Herbert Morrison du jour. He seems to have influence out of all proportion to his nominal position.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    CarlottaVance said:

    Magic Cranky Grandad:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/jeremy-corbyn-i-wanted-hamas-to-be-part-of-the-debate

    If he was saying friends to anyone and didn't mean it I'd love to see video of him calling "the right of Israel" as he puts it his friends.

    If that exists I'd drop this issue. It won't though he is dishonest.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    RH1992 said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    The magical number to challenge here is 54 Lab MPs/MEPs at the min but depending on if we still have MEPs in a few months and if there are any more leaving for the Tiggers then it might drop. I wonder if considering the number of MPs who VoNC'd Corbyn post EU ref whether there would be enough to support a challenge to Watson.
    Yes, you might be right, they might have trouble getting the numbers.
    We could be in for another round of 53.99999 recurring letters being in, but I reckon if Corbyn's lot manage to get the 54 or whatever it is at the time, Watson is toast which is a shame.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Slackbladder said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1100032187976564737

    So where the hell is the Leader on all this?

    Where was the Leader this morning when Jon Lansman was being questioned on Radio 4 about the Party's psoition on AS and a possible 2nd referendum?

    Hard to defend a Leader who is as inactive as Corbyn on such vital policy matters.
    It's a nice day on the allotments, plenty of turning over to do..
    If he got into a tizzy every time a Labour MP kicked off he'd knacker himself out. Best to let them shout loudly for a while get the worst of it out of their system then deal with any reasonable complaints once they've calmed down.

    Not much to do in the short term but enjoy some relaxing time in the sunshine down the allotments.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Why wait for the lead-up? Legally, I would have thought February is also "prior to the annual session of Party conference," if they're determined to purge the party.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Tissue_Price said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Why wait for the lead-up? Legally, I would have thought February is also "prior to the annual session of Party conference," if they're determined to purge the party.
    The vote takes place at the conference.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Who might run for deputy leader if he is challenged, possibly Thornberry or Burgon ?
    Might one hope for Chris Williamson?
    I think they'll want a gender-balanced ticket, so perhaps it's a route back to respectability for Kate Osamor. Well, a route back, at any rate.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    I suspect Dr Pickles medical career was rather short lived.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Who might run for deputy leader if he is challenged, possibly Thornberry or Burgon ?
    Might one hope for Chris Williamson?
    No. He's desperately needed as the Party's foreign affairs spokesman.

    Without his assistance, how are we all to understand what is going on in Venezuela?
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Isn't that a "careful what you wish for" scenario for Team Corbyn?

    Surely, even from their purist point of view, they need a critical mass of Blairite/Brownite running dogs to make any headway in parliament? If Watson leaves with a few dozen more moderates.. they'll be in a very poor position.

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited February 2019
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Why wait for the lead-up? Legally, I would have thought February is also "prior to the annual session of Party conference," if they're determined to purge the party.
    The vote takes place at the conference.
    Surely it's a postal ballot over a month as before? They had a special conference to announce the Corbyn-Smith result.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725
    Croatia to sign letter of intent by July on joining the Euro.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-25/croatia-to-submit-letter-of-intent-for-ecb-waiting-room-by-july
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Harris_Tweed said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Isn't that a "careful what you wish for" scenario for Team Corbyn?

    Surely, even from their purist point of view, they need a critical mass of Blairite/Brownite running dogs to make any headway in parliament? If Watson leaves with a few dozen more moderates.. they'll be in a very poor position.

    Yes, Watson is certainly in a very strong position, and he knows it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Harris_Tweed said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Isn't that a "careful what you wish for" scenario for Team Corbyn?

    Surely, even from their purist point of view, they need a critical mass of Blairite/Brownite running dogs to make any headway in parliament? If Watson leaves with a few dozen more moderates.. they'll be in a very poor position.

    If Watson leaves it won't be with a few dozen MPs. If Watson goes the numbers following would probably not just push Tiggers past the SNP but past Labour too.

    If the dam breaks Corbyn can't rely upon half of his MPs.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Has Watson shot, er, the Tiggers' fox?

    They haven't had a defection in, ooh, ages.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Recidivist said:

    Tom Watson is turning into a bit of a Herbert Morrison du jour. He seems to have influence out of all proportion to his nominal position.

    A more modern parallel if this works could be Nick Clegg as Deputy Prime Minister and part of the quad.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Tissue_Price said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Why wait for the lead-up? Legally, I would have thought February is also "prior to the annual session of Party conference," if they're determined to purge the party.
    The vote takes place at the conference.
    Surely it's a postal ballot over a month as before? They had a special conference to announce the Corbyn-Smith result.
    Yes, I don;t quite understand that (unless the rules have changed). The current rules say:

    Valid nominations shall be printed in the final agenda for Party conference, together
    with the names of the nominating organisations and Commons members of the PLP supporting the nominations. In the case of a vacancy under E [election where there's a vacancy] below this information shall be included with the documentation circulated with any ballot

    and:

    D. Timing of an election

    i. When the PLP is in opposition in the House of Commons, the election of the leader and deputy leader shall take place at each annual session of Party conference.

    http://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/2018-RULE-BOOK.pdf
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497
    edited February 2019
    I was really starting to get interested in public affairs at the time of Suez and this is, AIR, very considerably worse for the country. If we had any Armed Forces left I would see a take over. It's far worse than when Wilson was threatened.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1100044949951782912
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Why wait for the lead-up? Legally, I would have thought February is also "prior to the annual session of Party conference," if they're determined to purge the party.
    The vote takes place at the conference.
    Surely it's a postal ballot over a month as before? They had a special conference to announce the Corbyn-Smith result.
    Yes, I don;t quite understand that (unless the rules have changed). The current rules say:

    Valid nominations shall be printed in the final agenda for Party conference, together
    with the names of the nominating organisations and Commons members of the PLP supporting the nominations. In the case of a vacancy under E [election where there's a vacancy] below this information shall be included with the documentation circulated with any ballot

    and:

    D. Timing of an election

    i. When the PLP is in opposition in the House of Commons, the election of the leader and deputy leader shall take place at each annual session of Party conference.

    http://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/2018-RULE-BOOK.pdf
    I think the NEC are allowed to make it up as they go along, to some extent. Looks like they did in 2016.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Harris_Tweed said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Isn't that a "careful what you wish for" scenario for Team Corbyn?

    Surely, even from their purist point of view, they need a critical mass of Blairite/Brownite running dogs to make any headway in parliament? If Watson leaves with a few dozen more moderates.. they'll be in a very poor position.

    If Watson leaves it won't be with a few dozen MPs. If Watson goes the numbers following would probably not just push Tiggers past the SNP but past Labour too.

    If the dam breaks Corbyn can't rely upon half of his MPs.
    Strategically if the Tories could get Brexit and a leadership change out the way it'd likely be an amazing result at the ballot box to face Labour and Uncle Tom Cobley's Tiggers.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited February 2019
    OldKingCole said:

    I was really starting to get interested in public affairs at the time of Suez and this is, AIR, very considerably worse for the country. If we had any Armed Forces left I would see a take over. It's far worse than when Wilson was threatened.

    I thought that was a just a conspiracy theory.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725
    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1100039769810235393
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,872
    Tissue_Price said:

    https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1100044949951782912

    Its not speeding, its attempting to pervert the course of justice with the aggravation of being a solicitor and an MP. I can understand why the AG office feels its a bit political and doesn't want to touch it but that sentence was a joke.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Pulpstar said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Harris_Tweed said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Isn't that a "careful what you wish for" scenario for Team Corbyn?

    Surely, even from their purist point of view, they need a critical mass of Blairite/Brownite running dogs to make any headway in parliament? If Watson leaves with a few dozen more moderates.. they'll be in a very poor position.

    If Watson leaves it won't be with a few dozen MPs. If Watson goes the numbers following would probably not just push Tiggers past the SNP but past Labour too.

    If the dam breaks Corbyn can't rely upon half of his MPs.
    Strategically if the Tories could get Brexit and a leadership change out the way it'd likely be an amazing result at the ballot box to face Labour and Uncle Tom Cobley's Tiggers.
    Be careful what you wish for. Ask David Cameron, or perhaps even Mrs May
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    DavidL said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1100044949951782912

    Its not speeding, its attempting to pervert the course of justice with the aggravation of being a solicitor and an MP. I can understand why the AG office feels its a bit political and doesn't want to touch it but that sentence was a joke.
    I think most of us on here agreed that at the time; regardless it is a high bar and I'm not surprised it wasn't changed. Perhaps the lawyers here can advise as to whether it could be increased on the basis of her appeal, if the Court of Appeal think it was frivolous?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/GaryHynds/status/1100016691793330177
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1100047812430102530
    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1100047978579062784
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1100048468582764546
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1100039769810235393

    Jesus. When you collectively can’t see the wood for the trees. A brutal repressive economy that has ran out of food, fuel and money. That has gone stale and sustained by a network of secret police and banned knowledge is missed because the cultural offer is fantastic with puppets and paid actors.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1100039769810235393

    Sick burn!


    I’ll get my coat...
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Why wait for the lead-up? Legally, I would have thought February is also "prior to the annual session of Party conference," if they're determined to purge the party.
    The vote takes place at the conference.
    Surely it's a postal ballot over a month as before? They had a special conference to announce the Corbyn-Smith result.
    Yes, I don;t quite understand that (unless the rules have changed). The current rules say:

    Valid nominations shall be printed in the final agenda for Party conference, together
    with the names of the nominating organisations and Commons members of the PLP supporting the nominations. In the case of a vacancy under E [election where there's a vacancy] below this information shall be included with the documentation circulated with any ballot

    and:

    D. Timing of an election

    i. When the PLP is in opposition in the House of Commons, the election of the leader and deputy leader shall take place at each annual session of Party conference.

    http://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/2018-RULE-BOOK.pdf
    I suspect all of this is in Watson's big picture.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/GaryHynds/status/1100016691793330177

    Well, that should save Labour from Corbyn!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497
    RobD said:

    OldKingCole said:

    I was really starting to get interested in public affairs at the time of Suez and this is, AIR, very considerably worse for the country. If we had any Armed Forces left I would see a take over. It's far worse than when Wilson was threatened.

    I thought that was a just a conspiracy theory.
    It was, but the fact that it was taken seriously for a while......
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Britain’s Big Squeeze
    ‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist

    Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Nigel_Foremain said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    If I've understood the rules correctly, Tom Watson can be challenged in the lead-up to the annual conference. From the Labour Party rulebook (Chapter 4, Clause II):

    Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP.

    So Tom Watson is up against a deadline: he'll surely get challenged given what he is up to, but he can't be challenged for a few months.

    Why wait for the lead-up? Legally, I would have thought February is also "prior to the annual session of Party conference," if they're determined to purge the party.
    The vote takes place at the conference.
    Surely it's a postal ballot over a month as before? They had a special conference to announce the Corbyn-Smith result.
    Yes, I don;t quite understand that (unless the rules have changed). The current rules say:

    Valid nominations shall be printed in the final agenda for Party conference, together
    with the names of the nominating organisations and Commons members of the PLP supporting the nominations. In the case of a vacancy under E [election where there's a vacancy] below this information shall be included with the documentation circulated with any ballot

    and:

    D. Timing of an election

    i. When the PLP is in opposition in the House of Commons, the election of the leader and deputy leader shall take place at each annual session of Party conference.

    http://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/2018-RULE-BOOK.pdf
    I suspect all of this is in Watson's big picture.
    Watson may be many things, but stupid isn't one of them.

    However, there is a question how Labour can continue to be a functional party, and although Corbyn is just one person, his fellow travellers are numerous.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1100048468582764546

    Anyone who falls for this deserves contempt.
    May has been can-kicking for three straight months, all the while denying she is doing anything of the sort.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,149
    TheJezziah said:

    Slackbladder said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1100032187976564737

    So where the hell is the Leader on all this?

    Where was the Leader this morning when Jon Lansman was being questioned on Radio 4 about the Party's psoition on AS and a possible 2nd referendum?

    Hard to defend a Leader who is as inactive as Corbyn on such vital policy matters.
    It's a nice day on the allotments, plenty of turning over to do..
    If he got into a tizzy every time a Labour MP kicked off he'd knacker himself out. Best to let them shout loudly for a while get the worst of it out of their system then deal with any reasonable complaints once they've calmed down.

    Not much to do in the short term but enjoy some relaxing time in the sunshine down the allotments.
    Tom Watson could make it permanent. Move against him and he could take enough mps with him to TIG to make TIG the largest opposition group
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Nigel_Foremain said:

    I suspect all of this is in Watson's big picture.

    For sure. He knows all this better than anyone.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    AndyJS said:

    "Britain’s Big Squeeze
    ‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist

    Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html

    Maybe I should write a counterpoint:

    "Socialism, That's What I Knew". The making of a middle aged Centrist

    Nigel Foremain, 54, grew up in a Britain wrecked by the Winter of Discontent. He went to a bog standard comp with lefty teachers and gave up on the Labour Party a year after leaving school."
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/holyroodmandy/status/1100052465632858112
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited February 2019
    AndyJS said:

    "Britain’s Big Squeeze
    ‘Austerity, That’s What I Know’: The Making of a U.K. Millennial Socialist

    Alex McIntyre, 19, was brought up in a Britain being reshaped by government cuts. He gave up on capitalism after a year in college."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-socialism.html

    As ever, the student loan is discussed without any mention of the fact it’s only repaid if you earn above a certain threshold. It’s basically an additional tax at this point, and no one needs therapy over the hundreds of thousands of pounds they’ll be paying the exchequer over their lifetimes.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. P, almost as if we should've had a referendum on Lisbon, and Blair's constitutional tinkering to create a perpetual Labour fiefdom and 'kill nationalism stone dead' was less than successful...
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TheJezziah said:

    Slackbladder said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1100032187976564737

    So where the hell is the Leader on all this?

    Where was the Leader this morning when Jon Lansman was being questioned on Radio 4 about the Party's psoition on AS and a possible 2nd referendum?

    Hard to defend a Leader who is as inactive as Corbyn on such vital policy matters.
    It's a nice day on the allotments, plenty of turning over to do..
    If he got into a tizzy every time a Labour MP kicked off he'd knacker himself out. Best to let them shout loudly for a while get the worst of it out of their system then deal with any reasonable complaints once they've calmed down.

    Not much to do in the short term but enjoy some relaxing time in the sunshine down the allotments.
    Tom Watson could make it permanent. Move against him and he could take enough mps with him to TIG to make TIG the largest opposition group
    No need to make moves at the moment, just sit back and soak in a bit of February sun. Hope it's nice where you are.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    MarqueeMark said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/GaryHynds/status/1100016691793330177

    Well, that should save Labour from Corbyn!
    BOG OFF.

    Sorry, BOGOF. From Javid's point of view, it's two for the price of one, and the more important half in the long term (and for betting purposes) is that it boosts him at the expense of future leadership rivals Jeremy Hunt (as he is straying into foreign affairs) and Boris (since, as rehearsed before) any of the attacks on Corbyn can be later re-targeted.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    bigjohnowls said:

    On Topic.

    Gained his mandate on a lie.

    Would lose any election now.

    Crikey, that's a bit harsh on Magic Grandpa! True, but harsh ;)
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Gardenwalker said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1100048468582764546

    Anyone who falls for this deserves contempt.
    May has been can-kicking for three straight months, all the while denying she is doing anything of the sort.
    At this point I'd assume they were going along with it rather than falling for it.
This discussion has been closed.