politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It appears Blair slayer Tom Watson has his sights on Jeremy Co
Comments
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I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.0 -
Well this is a bit different! WTF is going on at Wembley?!0
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It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.0 -
Absolute scenes at Wembley.
Never seen anything like it before.0 -
Sensational scenes at the final between manager and goalkeeper.
I have never seen anything like it in all my 65 years following football0 -
twistedfirestopper3 said:
It's amazing how politicians who you despise can-all-of-a-sudden become a thoroughly decent person once they do something you agree with. It wasn't long ago that Watson was The Fat Nonce Finder General on here. Now, because he backs a second referendum and has set his sights on Corbyn, he's atop bloke! Truly my enemy's enemy......
Everyone he touches turn to shit. “This time it’s different”.twistedfirestopper3 said:It's amazing how politicians who you despise can-all-of-a-sudden become a thoroughly decent person once they do something you agree with. It wasn't long ago that Watson was The Fat Nonce Finder General on here. Now, because he backs a second referendum and has set his sights on Corbyn, he's atop bloke! Truly my enemy's enemy......
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I think Tom Watson has acted completely correctly at this moment. Though one might ask whether he could have done more earlier.
On next week's vote - how clear was the promise to hold the vote? Was there some wiggle room, or conditional?0 -
You too. Have not reprinted since we are not saying different things about this. To put it generically - for the same ultimate debt outcome it is better to borrow a tenner calmly and gradually over ten days than to pay down your debts by a fiver over five days, showing off how incredibly safe and sensible you are, and then borrow fifteen quid in a mad flap over the next five days. My view (even as a Labour supporter) is that Gordon was not a particularly good Chancellor, for that reason, for PFI, for the 10p fiasco, for pandering to the City.ydoethur said:Have a good evening.
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Disgraceful stuff. Sarri was already on the way out from what I understand, how can he stay after being humilated like that?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sensational scenes at the final between manager and goalkeeper.
I have never seen anything like it in all my 65 years following football0 -
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.0 -
Chelsea manager cannot survive this surely, even if they win the shoot out0
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Lol definitely her tweet https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/1099731186216259584El_Capitano said:Layla Moran not very impressed with the Sunday Times' suggestion that she might run for party president.
https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/10997311862162595840 -
Statements of intent, even by Prime Ministers, are meaningless if not backed up in law.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.0 -
Okay.Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.0 -
The think I take from this is even though we are watching football we still have time to post !!kle4 said:
Disgraceful stuff. Sarri was already on the way out from what I understand, how can he stay after being humilated like that?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sensational scenes at the final between manager and goalkeeper.
I have never seen anything like it in all my 65 years following football0 -
One of them's going to be sacked, I wonder which.0
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Think of it the other way around.RobD said:
Okay.Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
If Remain had won Leavers always have the option of overturning the result later on.0 -
Not the one they paid £72 million for.TheWhiteRabbit said:One of them's going to be sacked, I wonder which.
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If Scotland got the reffing protection Ireland does then we'd win a fair few more games.0
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Given Sarri was already on the ropes I would think this would be the thing that pushes him into leaving 'by mutual consent'.TheWhiteRabbit said:One of them's going to be sacked, I wonder which.
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Oh dear, things just got a whole lot worse for Kepa!0
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He should have saved that. O dear0
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What a tosser Kepa is.0
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But as an owner can you keep a player who defies the manager? That makes player power totally dominant.kle4 said:
Given Sarri was already on the ropes I would think this would be the thing that pushes him into leaving 'by mutual consent'.TheWhiteRabbit said:One of them's going to be sacked, I wonder which.
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His bags should be packed immediately, no way can you allow players to act like that.Big_G_NorthWales said:He should have saved that. O dear
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He made up for it - would you believe it0
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Unbelievable comment from Jemaine Jenas
Maurizio Sarri is still sulking he didn't get his way. The emotion he possesses in such a pivotal moment is too much. Something bad has gone against him but come on you're the manager of the team.
Precisely! He's the manager of the team, it shouldn't be a public contest to see who 'gets their way'. That's such a player's comment to make - they should get to do whatever they want.0 -
Chelsea should have got their Willy out.0
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In which case the government referendum leaflet should have been declared illegal for stating this:Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
' A once in a generation decision '
' This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. '
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf0 -
Not after three years though!TheScreamingEagles said:
Think of it the other way around.RobD said:
Okay.Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
If Remain had won Leavers always have the option of overturning the result later on.0 -
Nothing incorrect about that being what they wanted to do. Governments and oppositions promise they will do things all the time that they then don't do.another_richard said:
In which case the government referendum leaflet should have been declared illegal for stating this:Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
' A once in a generation decision '
' This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. '
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf0 -
Kepa has only reaffirmed my correct decision to never watch men's professional football ever again.0
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It will be all about Chelsea chaos tomorrow than City winning0
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They would, the shits in the ERG were planning on doing just that if Remain had won, starting with trying to oust David Cameron on the 24th of June 2016.RobD said:Not after three years though!
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The Vote Leave leaflet said any change would be gradual and not a sudden rupture and the UK wouldn’t start legally leaving until it had a deal in place . So any thoughts on that ?another_richard said:
In which case the government referendum leaflet should have been declared illegal for stating this:Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
' A once in a generation decision '
' This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. '
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf0 -
The WA isn't up for renegotiation (until it is, of course). Over the past few months various EU grands pajandra (Tusk, Barosso, etc) have mooted an extension purely to allow talks to continue. The end state was not specified. It's a cankicking exercise.kle4 said:
Is it really a negotiating period to just extend it to 2021? I thought they had said the WA was not up for renegotiating, so would they just give us 2 years to not pass it some more?Scott_P said:
So in fact it is up for renegotiation, just not in the way May is trying. Fine, but in that case they should stop pretending the matter is closed.0 -
She has not lost yet - she could but she may notTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
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Did you miss the largest ever defeat for the government?Big_G_NorthWales said:
She has not lost yet - she could but she may notTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
he ousted himselfTheScreamingEagles said:
They would, the shits in the ERG were planning on doing just that if Remain had won, starting with trying to oust David Cameron on the 24th of June 2016.RobD said:Not after three years though!
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I am waiting to see the final chapterTheScreamingEagles said:
Did you miss the largest ever defeat for the government?Big_G_NorthWales said:
She has not lost yet - she could but she may notTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Isn’t that what the WA provides for?nico67 said:
The Vote Leave leaflet said any change would be gradual and not a sudden rupture and the UK wouldn’t start legally leaving until it had a deal in place . So any thoughts on that ?another_richard said:
In which case the government referendum leaflet should have been declared illegal for stating this:Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
' A once in a generation decision '
' This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. '
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf0 -
I agree.another_richard said:
In which case the government referendum leaflet should have been declared illegal for stating this:Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
' A once in a generation decision '
' This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. '
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf0 -
Chelski boss has sacked himself surely? Player refuses to come off? And he lets him stay on the pitch?0
-
No, its clearly mendacious.kle4 said:
Nothing incorrect about that being what they wanted to do. Governments and oppositions promise they will do things all the time that they then don't do.another_richard said:
In which case the government referendum leaflet should have been declared illegal for stating this:Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
' A once in a generation decision '
' This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. '
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf
A truthful statement would have been:
' This might be a once in a generation decision '
' This is not only your decision. The government and parliament will implement what they decide. '
Now politicians spout lies and half-truths all the time but when official government documents are issued they should be legally accurate and that wasn't.0 -
Settled for at least a generation - this IMO was a reasonable interpretation and expectation.Ishmael_Z said:I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.
Begging the question, how long is a generation? It is not defined, thus can be validly debated, but I don't think that 3 years is in the range of defensible answers.0 -
That the CS signed this off was an utter disgrace.another_richard said:
No, its clearly mendacious.kle4 said:
Nothing incorrect about that being what they wanted to do. Governments and oppositions promise they will do things all the time that they then don't do.another_richard said:
In which case the government referendum leaflet should have been declared illegal for stating this:Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
' A once in a generation decision '
' This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. '
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf
A truthful statement would have been:
' This might be a once in a generation decision '
' This is not only your decision. The government and parliament will implement what they decide. '
Now politicians spout lies and half-truths all the time but when official government documents are issued they should be legally accurate and that wasn't.0 -
If he's not announced as going before the morning papers are out then I will believe that Theresa May is about to reveal a legally binding change to the text of the WA and will see her deal pass with ease.RochdalePioneers said:Chelski boss has sacked himself surely? Player refuses to come off? And he lets him stay on the pitch?
0 -
I may hold you to that !!!!!kle4 said:
If he's not announced as going before the morning papers are out then I will believe that Theresa May is about to reveal a legally binding change to the text of the WA and will see her deal pass with ease.RochdalePioneers said:Chelski boss has sacked himself surely? Player refuses to come off? And he lets him stay on the pitch?
0 -
I rather suspect that Sturgeon is making noises because she's so far behind in Betfair's next leader to leave market. She's barely turned up!malcolmg said:
It is still bollox, I am no fanboy of the SNP, they are not the be all and end all, similar to other politicians except for fact they are for independence. That is my only connection with them, I want independence.Foxy said:
https://twitter.com/peoplesvote_uk/status/1048875737200185344?s=19malcolmg said:
Does not change that it is just bolloxFoxy said:
#peoplesvote is SNP policy too, isn't it?malcolmg said:
It is just bollox for morons though, who else but the electorate can vote. They thinking of giving the vote to sheep instead of the sheeple.Foxy said:
#PutItToThePeople is the new hashtag.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
You may not like branding, but #Peoplesvote has been a very effective bit of marketing. Even Tom Watson is planning to be at the next one.
https://twitter.com/peoplesvote_uk/status/1099640535902547968?s=19
Quite how any of the other three expect to survive tomorrow let alone longer escapes me. In any normal time Sturgeon would be favourite to go.
0 -
Doesn't really matter now. It's all water under the bridge. Hopefully the story ends with our finding a legitimate way out of an horrendous mistake. Work back from there.tlg86 said:
That the CS signed this off was an utter disgrace.another_richard said:
No, its clearly mendacious.kle4 said:
Nothing incorrect about that being what they wanted to do. Governments and oppositions promise they will do things all the time that they then don't do.another_richard said:
In which case the government referendum leaflet should have been declared illegal for stating this:Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
' A once in a generation decision '
' This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. '
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf
A truthful statement would have been:
' This might be a once in a generation decision '
' This is not only your decision. The government and parliament will implement what they decide. '
Now politicians spout lies and half-truths all the time but when official government documents are issued they should be legally accurate and that wasn't.0 -
If he isn't sacked, can you guess who will play in goal for them for the rest of the season?kle4 said:
If he's not announced as going before the morning papers are out then I will believe that Theresa May is about to reveal a legally binding change to the text of the WA and will see her deal pass with ease.RochdalePioneers said:Chelski boss has sacked himself surely? Player refuses to come off? And he lets him stay on the pitch?
What a complete mess.0 -
The leaflet was clearly bollox as a Leave vote would mean different things to different people and so it would be inevitable that government and parliament would interpret it as they thought best.Ishmael_Z said:
I agree.another_richard said:
In which case the government referendum leaflet should have been declared illegal for stating this:Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
' A once in a generation decision '
' This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. '
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf0 -
It might have been if the leavers had ever been able to agree on what it meant.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.0 -
If it did it was bollox - not least because there couldn't have been a Vote Leave government.nico67 said:
The Vote Leave leaflet said any change would be gradual and not a sudden rupture and the UK wouldn’t start legally leaving until it had a deal in place . So any thoughts on that ?another_richard said:
In which case the government referendum leaflet should have been declared illegal for stating this:Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
' A once in a generation decision '
' This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. '
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf
But that wasn't an official government document was it.0 -
I think I naively thought at the time that the once per generation rule could only apply in the event of a Remain vote, because if you vote leave you then promptly leave and there you are with a fait accompli. I do accept the point that if a referendum goes against you you can't rerun it 3 months later, but here we are three years down the road with leaving turning out to be 100 x worse than anyone expected in 2016. It is just incoherent to pretend that supporting the 2016 result against a 2019 one is a democratic position, because what you are saying is that the electorate is capable of making up its mind but absolutely incapable of changing it, even when the facts change.kinabalu said:
Settled for at least a generation - this IMO was a reasonable interpretation and expectation.Ishmael_Z said:I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.
Begging the question, how long is a generation? It is not defined, thus can be validly debated, but I don't think that 3 years is in the range of defensible answers.0 -
The leavers have agreed. Its the pesky Europeans and Remainers who don't agree.OllyT said:
It might have been if the leavers had ever been able to agree on what it meant.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
(Seriously if you took a vote of just leave-backing MPs then this would be far simpler, but Remain MPs and the EU Commission and 27 other European nations have to agree too)0 -
Perhaps you need to let Gove and Fox and Johnson and Mogg in what it is that they have agreed on because last time I checked they were advocating quite different courses of actionPhilip_Thompson said:
The leavers have agreed. Its the pesky Europeans and Remainers who don't agree.OllyT said:
It might have been if the leavers had ever been able to agree on what it meant.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
(Seriously if you took a vote of just leave-backing MPs then this would be far simpler, but Remain MPs and the EU Commission and 27 other European nations have to agree too)0 -
That farce has quite rescued by otherwise pants sporting weekend....TheScreamingEagles said:What a tosser Kepa is.
0 -
Theory: May has given up on the detail of Brexit and is trying to avoid destroying the Tory Party. The vast majority of Tory members and voters are pro-Leave. If Leave must be frustrated, someone else must do the dirty work. If more defect to TIG to force it, so what? Remain-Leave is higher salience than party identification now. The next Tory Leader will be a Leaver. UKIP are bust unless the Tories go Remain. Result: in most constituencies one viable Leaver faces off against at least 2, and possibly more, potentially 3/4 in some constituencies, viable Remainers.0
-
Perfect time for your lot to be playing them on Wednesday.Scrapheap_as_was said:
That farce has quite rescued by otherwise pants sporting weekend....TheScreamingEagles said:What a tosser Kepa is.
0 -
Reasonable to suppose it meant tearing up our membership card and seeing what else was on offer. Definitely involved leaving.OllyT said:
It might have been if the leavers had ever been able to agree on what it meant.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
Mind you, you're fair to point out that Leave supporting Politicians talked a load of pants. We don't place a lot of faith in their nonsense generally, I'm not sure that we can somehow presume the Brexit ref was some golden age of adequacy in their ranks.
0 -
Well leaving hasn't turned out to be 100x worse for the simple reason that we haven't left. All that has happened is that Parliament backed by the Remoaners who refused to accept the result of the referendum have frustrated the process in the hope that we will get a revocation. They have been aided in this by the shear incompetence of the Government, many of whom have never really believed in Brexit anyway.Ishmael_Z said:
I think I naively thought at the time that the once per generation rule could only apply in the event of a Remain vote, because if you vote leave you then promptly leave and there you are with a fait accompli. I do accept the point that if a referendum goes against you you can't rerun it 3 months later, but here we are three years down the road with leaving turning out to be 100 x worse than anyone expected in 2016. It is just incoherent to pretend that supporting the 2016 result against a 2019 one is a democratic position, because what you are saying is that the electorate is capable of making up its mind but absolutely incapable of changing it, even when the facts change.kinabalu said:
Settled for at least a generation - this IMO was a reasonable interpretation and expectation.Ishmael_Z said:I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.
Begging the question, how long is a generation? It is not defined, thus can be validly debated, but I don't think that 3 years is in the range of defensible answers.
It is incoherent and fundamentally dishonest to say that you should have a second vote before the first one has been enacted, all based on the fear mongering and dishonesty of those who have always opposed the outcome.
If you get your way then democracy is dead in this country.0 -
So what should happen if a player refuses to be substituted ?
Perhaps the referee should send them off instead on abusive behaviour grounds.0 -
Excellent. The Remainers have found yet another reason why their defeat should be scrubbed from the history books so they can have another go.tlg86 said:
That the CS signed this off was an utter disgrace.another_richard said:
No, its clearly mendacious.kle4 said:
Nothing incorrect about that being what they wanted to do. Governments and oppositions promise they will do things all the time that they then don't do.another_richard said:
In which case the government referendum leaflet should have been declared illegal for stating this:Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
' A once in a generation decision '
' This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. '
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf
A truthful statement would have been:
' This might be a once in a generation decision '
' This is not only your decision. The government and parliament will implement what they decide. '
Now politicians spout lies and half-truths all the time but when official government documents are issued they should be legally accurate and that wasn't.
This is the leaflet that the Government sent out before the official campaign, right? And therefore wasn't included in the official Remain campaign spending. In which case, why would the CS have been interested?0 -
I just wonder if his two attacks of cramp were time wasting and when he realised he was off he suddenly recovered. Cynical maybe but ........another_richard said:So what should happen if a player refuses to be substituted ?
Perhaps the referee should send them off instead on abusive behaviour grounds.0 -
I'm with David Davis on this.Ishmael_Z said:
I think I naively thought at the time that the once per generation rule could only apply in the event of a Remain vote, because if you vote leave you then promptly leave and there you are with a fait accompli. I do accept the point that if a referendum goes against you you can't rerun it 3 months later, but here we are three years down the road with leaving turning out to be 100 x worse than anyone expected in 2016. It is just incoherent to pretend that supporting the 2016 result against a 2019 one is a democratic position, because what you are saying is that the electorate is capable of making up its mind but absolutely incapable of changing it, even when the facts change.kinabalu said:
Settled for at least a generation - this IMO was a reasonable interpretation and expectation.Ishmael_Z said:I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.
Begging the question, how long is a generation? It is not defined, thus can be validly debated, but I don't think that 3 years is in the range of defensible answers.
“If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy”0 -
No they wouldn't. You know damn well that the 'once in a generation' quote would have been all over the place and the issue would be considered 'settled' for the foreseeable future.TheScreamingEagles said:
Think of it the other way around.RobD said:
Okay.Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
If Remain had won Leavers always have the option of overturning the result later on.
Now you want to abandon that principle completely. You will not like what you reap.0 -
It's finally happened - the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
The keeper should be unemployed and unemployable tomorrow. And so should the captain. I know that in football, they're only there to call heads or tails, but he should have marched the keeper off the field.
Are there any Chelsea supporters prepared to defend them?0 -
Really? Last time I looked the Chairman of the Vote Leave Campaign and the Chairman of the ERG are taking rather different tacks on this and there is no reason to my mind why the others should reach agreement as you suggest.Philip_Thompson said:
The leavers have agreed. Its the pesky Europeans and Remainers who don't agree.OllyT said:
It might have been if the leavers had ever been able to agree on what it meant.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
(Seriously if you took a vote of just leave-backing MPs then this would be far simpler, but Remain MPs and the EU Commission and 27 other European nations have to agree too)0 -
No I don't, I've said we should leave, even with no deal.Richard_Tyndall said:No they wouldn't. You know damn well that the 'once in a generation' quote would have been all over the place and the issue would be considered 'settled' for the foreseeable future.
Now you want to abandon that principle completely. You will not like what you reap.0 -
Not a supporter necessarily, but Jermaine Jenas thinks Sarri's at fault for sulking over not getting his way and not showing class about it.CD13 said:It's finally happened - the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
The keeper should be unemployed and unemployable tomorrow. And so should the captain. I know that in football, they're only there to call heads or tails, but he should have marched the keeper off the field.
Are there any Chelsea supporters prepared to defend them?
Chelsea paid a lot for the keeper and not as much for Sarri. The latter will go.
I know they could not physically drag the player off, but I don't know why the referee did not just sent the sub on and demand Kepa go.0 -
The process of leaving is going on, and is transpiring to be 100 times as bad as I expected it to be.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well leaving hasn't turned out to be 100x worse for the simple reason that we haven't left. All that has happened is that Parliament backed by the Remoaners who refused to accept the result of the referendum have frustrated the process in the hope that we will get a revocation. They have been aided in this by the shear incompetence of the Government, many of whom have never really believed in Brexit anyway.Ishmael_Z said:
I think I naively thought at the time that the once per generation rule could only apply in the event of a Remain vote, because if you vote leave you then promptly leave and there you are with a fait accompli. I do accept the point that if a referendum goes against you you can't rerun it 3 months later, but here we are three years down the road with leaving turning out to be 100 x worse than anyone expected in 2016. It is just incoherent to pretend that supporting the 2016 result against a 2019 one is a democratic position, because what you are saying is that the electorate is capable of making up its mind but absolutely incapable of changing it, even when the facts change.kinabalu said:
Settled for at least a generation - this IMO was a reasonable interpretation and expectation.Ishmael_Z said:I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.
Begging the question, how long is a generation? It is not defined, thus can be validly debated, but I don't think that 3 years is in the range of defensible answers.
It is incoherent and fundamentally dishonest to say that you should have a second vote before the first one has been enacted, all based on the fear mongering and dishonesty of those who have always opposed the outcome.
If you get your way then democracy is dead in this country.
I am loving the argument that if we ask the electorate what to do, and follow their wishes, that proves that democracy is dead. Of course it does.
0 -
Caballero in goal. With Kepa behind him also in goal no doubt.philiph said:
If he isn't sacked, can you guess who will play in goal for them for the rest of the season?kle4 said:
If he's not announced as going before the morning papers are out then I will believe that Theresa May is about to reveal a legally binding change to the text of the WA and will see her deal pass with ease.RochdalePioneers said:Chelski boss has sacked himself surely? Player refuses to come off? And he lets him stay on the pitch?
What a complete mess.0 -
It would have been up to the public whether they considered the issue settled or not. If a party promising Brexit won lots of seats in parliament it obviously wouldn't have been settled.Richard_Tyndall said:
No they wouldn't. You know damn well that the 'once in a generation' quote would have been all over the place and the issue would be considered 'settled' for the foreseeable future.TheScreamingEagles said:
Think of it the other way around.RobD said:
Okay.Ishmael_Z said:
No, by David Cameron in his private capacity as a glib OE with a shiny forehead and a product to sell. The PM has no power to rewrite statute by obiter dictum - as of course you know.RobD said:
It was by a certain David Cameron, PM.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.RobD said:
Wasn't the vote in 2016 supposed to be the final say?IanB2 said:
#FinalSayRichard_Nabavi said:
They should stick to 'confirmatory referendum'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
If Remain had won Leavers always have the option of overturning the result later on.
Now you want to abandon that principle completely. You will not like what you reap.0 -
Mr kl4,
The ref could have red-carded him, but he'd have been the one getting sacked. Football now = farce.
I expect the ex-pros to support their fellows. It follows on from the famous "He was touched in the penalty area, so he was entitled to go down."
0 -
Certainly not been impressive, invisible for a long time.Omnium said:
I rather suspect that Sturgeon is making noises because she's so far behind in Betfair's next leader to leave market. She's barely turned up!malcolmg said:
It is still bollox, I am no fanboy of the SNP, they are not the be all and end all, similar to other politicians except for fact they are for independence. That is my only connection with them, I want independence.Foxy said:
https://twitter.com/peoplesvote_uk/status/1048875737200185344?s=19malcolmg said:
Does not change that it is just bolloxFoxy said:
#peoplesvote is SNP policy too, isn't it?malcolmg said:
It is just bollox for morons though, who else but the electorate can vote. They thinking of giving the vote to sheep instead of the sheeple.Foxy said:
#PutItToThePeople is the new hashtag.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a suggestion. Why not call it a second referendum rather than the silly 'peoples vote'Foxy said:
I think that if we have MEPs then Remain parties will do very well. UKIP MEPs are just punch and judy entertainment.RoyalBlue said:
I’m curious why the EU is in favour of this. The people we will end up sending to the European Parliament will make UKIP look like the WI.Foxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
It will also be extremely damaging to the Tory Party’s standing in the opinion polls. Surely May knows that?
21 months is to the end of the budget cycle, and allows both a solution to the Backstop (such as permanent CU) to be negotiated, and of course a #peoplesvote.
You may not like branding, but #Peoplesvote has been a very effective bit of marketing. Even Tom Watson is planning to be at the next one.
https://twitter.com/peoplesvote_uk/status/1099640535902547968?s=19
Quite how any of the other three expect to survive tomorrow let alone longer escapes me. In any normal time Sturgeon would be favourite to go.0 -
Sarri is saying it was a misunderstanding.0
-
Both main parties promised Brexit at the last election. In total parties promising to abide by the result of the referendum won 572 seats out of 650. But apparently that and the referendum both count for nothing these days.williamglenn said:
It would have been up to the public whether they considered the issue settled or not. If a party promising Brexit won lots of seats in parliament it obviously wouldn't have been settled.0 -
As I have to keep repeating to people clearly too dumb to understand, democracy is not just about asking the question. It is about enacting the reply. Otherwise it counts for nothing. Henceforth we will be able to say that any alternative action is legitimate as we no longer live in a democracy.Ishmael_Z said:
The process of leaving is going on, and is transpiring to be 100 times as bad as I expected it to be.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well leaving hasn't turned out to be 100x worse for the simple reason that we haven't left. All that has happened is that Parliament backed by the Remoaners who refused to accept the result of the referendum have frustrated the process in the hope that we will get a revocation. They have been aided in this by the shear incompetence of the Government, many of whom have never really believed in Brexit anyway.Ishmael_Z said:
I think I naively thought at the time that the once per generation rule could only apply in the event of a Remain vote, because if you vote leave you then promptly leave and there you are with a fait accompli. I do accept the point that if a referendum goes against you you can't rerun it 3 months later, but here we are three years down the road with leaving turning out to be 100 x worse than anyone expected in 2016. It is just incoherent to pretend that supporting the 2016 result against a 2019 one is a democratic position, because what you are saying is that the electorate is capable of making up its mind but absolutely incapable of changing it, even when the facts change.kinabalu said:
Settled for at least a generation - this IMO was a reasonable interpretation and expectation.Ishmael_Z said:I don't think so, it wasn't framed in that way. If it had been that would surely be profoundly antidemocratic, giving the electorate of 2016 an unassailable tyranny over all subsequent electorates.
Begging the question, how long is a generation? It is not defined, thus can be validly debated, but I don't think that 3 years is in the range of defensible answers.
It is incoherent and fundamentally dishonest to say that you should have a second vote before the first one has been enacted, all based on the fear mongering and dishonesty of those who have always opposed the outcome.
If you get your way then democracy is dead in this country.
I am loving the argument that if we ask the electorate what to do, and follow their wishes, that proves that democracy is dead. Of course it does.0 -
Mr Eagles,
"Sarri is saying it was a misunderstanding."
He's fooling no one, but he has a multi-million pound pay-off to console himself with.
0 -
Apologies you have. You at least have honour in this debate.TheScreamingEagles said:
No I don't, I've said we should leave, even with no deal.Richard_Tyndall said:No they wouldn't. You know damn well that the 'once in a generation' quote would have been all over the place and the issue would be considered 'settled' for the foreseeable future.
Now you want to abandon that principle completely. You will not like what you reap.
That also means you can, with an absolutely clear conscience, start campaigning for us to rejoin the day after we leave.0 -
Opposition is also legitimate in a democracy.Richard_Tyndall said:
Both main parties promised Brexit at the last election. In total parties promising to abide by the result of the referendum won 572 seats out of 650. But apparently that and the referendum both count for nothing these days.williamglenn said:
It would have been up to the public whether they considered the issue settled or not. If a party promising Brexit won lots of seats in parliament it obviously wouldn't have been settled.
I honestly think that if it had been 48/52 to Remain, then we'd currently be talking about which Leaver would take over as Tory leader (if Cameron hadn't already been forced out) and whether another referendum would be in their manifesto for the 2020 GE. To settle it, Cameron needed to win by much more than that.0 -
That depends on a resurgent Farage Brexit Party taking Tory Leaver votes and maybe a few Labour Leave votes too, Corbyn also faces his own splits with TIG taking Labour Remainer votes unless he commits to EUref2RoyalBlue said:
If a motion passes for such a thing, enough ERGers will leave the party to ensure that we have an election. The party will then experience (and would deserve) a 1997 style result.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think the majority of her party and the opposition would provide the authority and ERG could not do anything to prevent it. It would be the ultimate irony for them as they jeopardise their last best chance of brexitRoyalBlue said:
It can’t force her to do anything. If they want someone to do it, then the Tory arch-Europhiles need to find the testicular fortitude to betray their party and put Corbyn in office to action the extension.Big_G_NorthWales said:
HOC may force itRoyalBlue said:If May agrees to a 21 month delay, she will destroy the Tory Party. She won’t do it.
The failure of politicians on all sides to take their responsibilities seriously is the most infuriating aspect of Brexit. The best argument against it is that we would be giving more power to these imbeciles.
Corbyn with a clear majority. It’ll be fun.
0 -
Yeah right. I'd like to see him claim that with a straight face while looking at the footage of what happened and his own reaction.TheScreamingEagles said:Sarri is saying it was a misunderstanding.
0 -
That way May could hold votes on her Deal every month right up until nearly the next general electionFoxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.0 -
How?Big_G_NorthWales said:
HOC may force itRoyalBlue said:If May agrees to a 21 month delay, she will destroy the Tory Party. She won’t do it.
0 -
Nah. You get neither the right to define democracy nor honour.Richard_Tyndall said:
Apologies you have. You at least have honour in this debate.TheScreamingEagles said:
No I don't, I've said we should leave, even with no deal.Richard_Tyndall said:No they wouldn't. You know damn well that the 'once in a generation' quote would have been all over the place and the issue would be considered 'settled' for the foreseeable future.
Now you want to abandon that principle completely. You will not like what you reap.
That also means you can, with an absolutely clear conscience, start campaigning for us to rejoin the day after we leave.
0 -
May will have less authority than Mauricio Sarri if she does that !HYUFD said:
That way May could hold votes on her Deal every month right up until nearly the next general electionFoxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.0 -
That sort of offensiveness does you no favours whatever. Enacting the result of as advisory referendum means considering the advice. We have had three years to consider the effects of leaving. If you claim that you foresaw in 2016 that we would be where we are now in 2019, i don't believe you because i don't believe anyone could be evil and stupid enough to have campaigned for leave on that basis. The facts have changed; let's give ourselves the option of changing our minds.Richard_Tyndall said:As I have to keep repeating to people clearly too dumb to understand, democracy is not just about asking the question. It is about enacting the reply. Otherwise it counts for nothing. Henceforth we will be able to say that any alternative action is legitimate as we no longer live in a democracy.
You want the rules to be such that when the dice have fallen in your favour no further play is possible. I can see why you would want that, but just stop dressing it up in pompous flimflam about honour and democracy.0 -
Her Cabinet openly say her plans have no chance and they oppose her strategies; she doesn't have authority, it's just no one wants to take on the job.Pulpstar said:
May will have less authority than Mauricio Sarri if she does that !HYUFD said:
That way May could hold votes on her Deal every month right up until nearly the next general electionFoxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.
Why can he not have an opinion on it? If you wish to defend what you consider to be democracy and honour others are free to take a contrary view. Otherwise you're just doing the same thing and deciding what others can regard as dishonour.Foxy said:
Nah. You get neither the right to define democracy nor honour.Richard_Tyndall said:
Apologies you have. You at least have honour in this debate.TheScreamingEagles said:
No I don't, I've said we should leave, even with no deal.Richard_Tyndall said:No they wouldn't. You know damn well that the 'once in a generation' quote would have been all over the place and the issue would be considered 'settled' for the foreseeable future.
Now you want to abandon that principle completely. You will not like what you reap.
That also means you can, with an absolutely clear conscience, start campaigning for us to rejoin the day after we leave.0 -
Mind-blowing? I'm not sure I see it - especially as discussions were had but nothing actually happened.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
And, I believe, the first rumoured route that wins William his bet with Sean?HYUFD said:
That way May could hold votes on her Deal every month right up until nearly the next general electionFoxy said:It seems not just to be Theresa's little barfly minion with a 21 month extension in mind:
EU Is Said to Mull 21-Month Delay If May Can't Get Brexit Done https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-24/eu-is-said-to-mull-idea-of-proposing-brexit-extension-to-2021
All the advantages of the WA, without the small inconvenince of needing a vote. In practice much the same only we are in pretending to be out, rather than out pretending to be in. Dec 20 still at 32 on BFEx.0 -
0
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Refs can't substitute players. That's up to the manager. The ref would only have to act if players had left or entered the field of play without his permission, or if there were too many players on the field. Any failure to cooperate with the referee in these respects would lead to the abandonment of the game, and deep shit for the players and the club responsible.kle4 said:
Not a supporter necessarily, but Jermaine Jenas thinks Sarri's at fault for sulking over not getting his way and not showing class about it.CD13 said:It's finally happened - the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
The keeper should be unemployed and unemployable tomorrow. And so should the captain. I know that in football, they're only there to call heads or tails, but he should have marched the keeper off the field.
Are there any Chelsea supporters prepared to defend them?
Chelsea paid a lot for the keeper and not as much for Sarri. The latter will go.
I know they could not physically drag the player off, but I don't know why the referee did not just sent the sub on and demand Kepa go.0
