politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Six weeks tomorrow could mark the beginning of the end for the
Comments
-
Thick as mince, typical jobsworth enriching themselves at the trough that is Westminster.williamglenn said:0 -
To be honest, way before Brexit, I never liked Soubry anyway.Richard_Tyndall said:Soubry lying again on Sky News.
She claims she is not trying to stop Brexit and then says she wants a People's vote because people have changed their minds... which of course means stopping Brexit.
She’s just as hectoring, aggressive and myopic as the nuttiest of the ERG, and never listens to anyone who disagrees with her but defiantly sneers at them instead.0 -
Chukka, Hodge. Berger, Gapes, Leslie, Smith(s) all off at last. Could be as many as 30 methinks by end of month.
Lets get some proper Labour Candidates in these Constituencies.0 -
The Woodward case seems to me to be a completely unhelpful and false analogy.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Woodward was accused of killing a baby though, which is a fairly serious thing to be accused of. As far as I know this young woman's contribution to IS was simply having babies, two of which have died. That doesn't strike me as particularly dangerous behaviour, except for her.
To describe Woodward as a killer ("killing a baby") is fair, only if you are prepared to describe the leader of the Green party Jonathan Barclay as a killer. (He accidentally killed someone in a motor accident as a teenager).
As regards the ISIS teenager, she should be prosecuted for any crimes she committed. And her child should be taken into care (for the child's sake).
She shows no sign of understanding the perniciousness of the ideology.0 -
I shall be interested to see if something truly extraordinary, incredible and bordering on miraculous has happened - Skwawkbox has got a story right.bigjohnowls said:Skwawkbox says Chukka has gone
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/14/breaking-multiple-sources-umunna-to-resign-labour-whip-tonight/0 -
Is Chukka the starting pistol for SDP II?0
-
-
Sooner Scotland is independent the betterCicero said:Having lost our voice in Brussels, I am not at all sure that Scotland's position improves by losing our voice in London. Meanwhile the right wing nutters who think that doing Putin's will and ending the United Kingdom is a good thing should be locked up for their own protection.
0 -
LOL, Scotland expert NOTjustin124 said:
Very unlikely that Labour would agree to that given the clear lack of appetite for it now in Scotland.Such a move would drive pro-Union Labour voters into voting Tory.stodge said:Afternoon all
In London today for a Conference and walked round Parliament Square as the double decker "Leave" bus kept circling. Ah, the theatre. By the by, magical to walk down Horse Guards this morning - a part of London I don't often see but beautiful to see the Palace through the trees.
On topic, I won't die in a ditch for the Union unlike Theresa May. If the population of Ulster votes freely and fairly to secede and join the Irish Republic fine (ditto for Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, London or Surrey not that I expect any of them to join the Irish Republic (except perhaps Surrey)).
I suppose the thorny question (as it was before) is who gets to vote. Should the franchise be extended to Ulster-born people residing in the UK or even the Republic of Ireland and why stop there? I don't know.
Another one of life's conundrums seems to be what (if anything) will facilitate a Labour split. 248 Labour MPs voted against the WA in mid January but I suppose if some of them were to be no longer part of the Parliamentary Party that might change. I wonder if May is hoping for a Labour split (divide and conquer) or terrified (new Party sweeps ahead in polls, some Conservatives jump ship too). She seems to have her own issues with Mr Grieve.
Nearly 40 years on from the Limehouse Declaration and the launch of the SDP (what a mad time that was), could we be looking at something similar or very different? If they broke away now, would a new Party (along with the Brexit Party) seek to run candidates in local elections - would Labour Council groups split as well allowing for changes of control?
Back on topic, the question for me is whether agreement to a second independence referendum would be the price for SNP support for a minority Labour administration at Westminster?0 -
Surely we can all agree that if Harriet Harman is in favour of letting her back in it must be a bad idea?SeanT said:Clearly you haven't been on Twitter. It's full of bed-wetting liberals - from Harriet Harman to David Aaronovitch - all saying we should show "compassion" etc.
0 -
Are you a member?murali_s said:
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).bigjohnowls said:Skwawkbox says Chukka has gone
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/14/breaking-multiple-sources-umunna-to-resign-labour-whip-tonight/
0 -
For Conservative party experts - could May call a GE and then deselect all saboteur MPs ?
I know she couldn't stop them still standing for parliament but could she replace them as the official Conservative candidates in their constituency ?0 -
His posts suggest that he is a giant member.bigjohnowls said:
Are you a member?murali_s said:
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).bigjohnowls said:Skwawkbox says Chukka has gone
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/14/breaking-multiple-sources-umunna-to-resign-labour-whip-tonight/
Oh sorry, you were asking about his affiliation to Labour?
0 -
Bed wetting liberals now includes former director of global counter-terrorism at MI6 apparently. No wonder the world is going to the dogs!SeanT said:
Clearly you haven't been on Twitter. It's full of bed-wetting liberals - from Harriet Harman to David Aaronovitch - all saying we should show "compassion" etc.MaxPB said:Only on pb can you see defenders of the terrorist traitor. Disgusting.
Sky polling shows that only 16% of Brits agree with this, a mighty 76% think No, let her stay in Syria.
Never has a ruling elite been SO detached from public opinion, on so many levels. It is perhaps another symptom of that wider western malaise we discussed downthread.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/14/former-mi6-director-says-schoolgirl-shamima-begum-who-joined-isis-should-be-given-a-chance
0 -
chuckLOLeydoethur said:
I shall be interested to see if something truly extraordinary, incredible and bordering on miraculous has happened - Skwawkbox has got a story right.bigjohnowls said:Skwawkbox says Chukka has gone
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/14/breaking-multiple-sources-umunna-to-resign-labour-whip-tonight/
0 -
Agreed.malcolmg said:
Sooner Scotland is independent the betterCicero said:Having lost our voice in Brussels, I am not at all sure that Scotland's position improves by losing our voice in London. Meanwhile the right wing nutters who think that doing Putin's will and ending the United Kingdom is a good thing should be locked up for their own protection.
0 -
He's no Roy Jenkins.numbertwelve said:Is Chukka the starting pistol for SDP II?
0 -
Yep.SeanT said:
Clearly you haven't been on Twitter. It's full of bed-wetting liberals - from Harriet Harman to David Aaronovitch - all saying we should show "compassion" etc.MaxPB said:Only on pb can you see defenders of the terrorist traitor. Disgusting.
Sky polling shows that only 16% of Brits agree with this, a mighty 76% think No, let her stay in Syria.
Never has a ruling elite been SO detached from public opinion, on so many levels. It is perhaps another symptom of that wider western malaise we discussed downthread.0 -
May be a bit of PhotoShot in evidence but not Soubry thats genuine affection.
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=Chuka Umunna&src=tyah0 -
What’s Jacob Rees Mogg’s handle on here?MaxPB said:Only on pb can you see defenders of the terrorist traitor. Disgusting.
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1096045001119653893?s=21
0 -
I do avoid Twitter like the plague.SeanT said:
Clearly you haven't been on Twitter. It's full of bed-wetting liberals - from Harriet Harman to David Aaronovitch - all saying we should show "compassion" etc.MaxPB said:Only on pb can you see defenders of the terrorist traitor. Disgusting.
Sky polling shows that only 16% of Brits agree with this, a mighty 76% think No, let her stay in Syria.
Never has a ruling elite been SO detached from public opinion, on so many levels. It is perhaps another symptom of that wider western malaise we discussed downthread.0 -
Hang On is Cross Party Working actually quitting?0
-
Would that be a clearer symptom of the End Times than a Labour MP growing a backbone?ydoethur said:
I shall be interested to see if something truly extraordinary, incredible and bordering on miraculous has happened - Skwawkbox has got a story right.bigjohnowls said:Skwawkbox says Chukka has gone
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/14/breaking-multiple-sources-umunna-to-resign-labour-whip-tonight/0 -
As I understand it all Tory MP's have to ask their associations if the association are still happy for them to be the candidate. The association can say no.another_richard said:For Conservative party experts - could May call a GE and then deselect all saboteur MPs ?
I know she couldn't stop them still standing for parliament but could she replace them as the official Conservative candidates in their constituency ?0 -
Re said evil IS lady
Does she have any citizenship other than British?*
It matter because we are signatories to two treaties (1954 and 1961), that impose serious restrictions on our ability to remove citizenship from people who have no other citizenship. If another country were to chuck her on a plane to the UK, we would have very little choice other than to accept her.**
Fortunately, it seems like she is likely guilty of a litany of crimes, so we can probably lean on Turkey, Syria and the like to prosecute her, and so the situation will hopefully resolve itself without us having to do anything.
* I said at the time we should recognise IS as a state, as it would save us a ton of problems later.
** We could always withdraw or abrogate these treaties. There are no exit clauses on these, so in theory that's impossible. But the reality is that we could leave them unilaterally, as with the backstop, at any time we chose.0 -
Thats why i worded it like thatydoethur said:
His posts suggest that he is a giant member.bigjohnowls said:
Are you a member?murali_s said:
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).bigjohnowls said:Skwawkbox says Chukka has gone
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/14/breaking-multiple-sources-umunna-to-resign-labour-whip-tonight/
Oh sorry, you were asking about his affiliation to Labour?0 -
20 years hard labour is what she needsOnlyLivingBoy said:
She was a kid. She is still barely an adult. She has the same rights as you and I, regardless of her views, which I find just as repellent as you do. She is entitled to use our health service, like all British citizens. If she is guilty of any crimes she should be prosecuted for them according to the rule of law.SeanT said:
FFS she joined a Nazi death cult. And went to great lengths to do so, showing cunning and intelligence. She secretly crossed frontiers, just so she could support a terror group which was burning people alive and slaving 1000s of women and committing genocidal atrocities and gleefully putting this all online. She joined AFTER we saw all of thatOnlyLivingBoy said:
With reference to the Sky poll, I can't help feeling there tends to be a different view when a white Briton is accused of something abroad (cf Louise Woodward), the most common response not generally being 'they are certainly guilty and should face the full force of the justice system in the country they find themselves in' ... particularly if they are not even undergoing prosecution for any crime in that country.SeanT said:
It is very certainly a crime to be a member or supporter of ISIS in any way, in Iraq. So she has broken Iraqi law and I'd be surprised if she was not in Iraq at some point. Mosul was their sacred capital for a while.
To me the case has a lot of parallels with the child grooming gangs in Rochdale etc, a child who was groomed and sexually exploited by criminals. At the very least, her child is blameless, and a British citizen, and deserves the protection of the British state. In our fight against Isis and its vile ideology, we shouldn't lose our sense of humanity.
Four years later she expresses absolutely no remorse for this, she still thinks it is OK to behead non-believers, she wishes the Caliphate had prospered, she makes no apology at all to the tens of thousands of ISIS victims, mouldering in their mass graves. She's an unrepentant Nazi. What's more, she's an entitled little Nazi who thinks the British tax payer should fund her rescue, so she can come home and use our free health service.
Comparing her to some vulnerable girl from a care home, in Rochdale, groomed by Asian sex gangs, is grotesque nonsense, and borderline offensive.0 -
But I believe they also need to be on the CCHQ approved candidate list.ralphmalph said:
As I understand it all Tory MP's have to ask their associations if the association are still happy for them to be the candidate. The association can say no.another_richard said:For Conservative party experts - could May call a GE and then deselect all saboteur MPs ?
I know she couldn't stop them still standing for parliament but could she replace them as the official Conservative candidates in their constituency ?
Otherwise you could have someone elected as an Conservative who opposed the Conservative party as long as he managed to flood a local association with supporters.0 -
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1096113189153054727
Thems fighting words, I like it.
@SouthamObserver
I.... ahh... agree with JRM there.0 -
Wouldn't recognizing IS as a state when it was operating in the territory of other countries have led to diplomatic complications with those countries ?rcs1000 said:Re said evil IS lady
Does she have any citizenship other than British?*
It matter because we are signatories to two treaties (1954 and 1961), that impose serious restrictions on our ability to remove citizenship from people who have no other citizenship. If another country were to chuck her on a plane to the UK, we would have very little choice other than to accept her.**
Fortunately, it seems like she is likely guilty of a litany of crimes, so we can probably lean on Turkey, Syria and the like to prosecute her, and so the situation will hopefully resolve itself without us having to do anything.
* I said at the time we should recognise IS as a state, as it would save us a ton of problems later.
** We could always withdraw or abrogate these treaties. There are no exit clauses on these, so in theory that's impossible. But the reality is that we could leave them unilaterally, as with the backstop, at any time we chose.0 -
Well you certainly showed your expertise in May 2017 when you dismissed the prospect of the SNP falling below 50 seats. You were so keen to accept bets re-that proposition.malcolmg said:
LOL, Scotland expert NOTjustin124 said:
Very unlikely that Labour would agree to that given the clear lack of appetite for it now in Scotland.Such a move would drive pro-Union Labour voters into voting Tory.stodge said:Afternoon all
In London today for a Conference and walked round Parliament Square as the double decker "Leave" bus kept circling. Ah, the theatre. By the by, magical to walk down Horse Guards this morning - a part of London I don't often see but beautiful to see the Palace through the trees.
On topic, I won't die in a ditch for the Union unlike Theresa May. If the population of Ulster votes freely and fairly to secede and join the Irish Republic fine (ditto for Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, London or Surrey not that I expect any of them to join the Irish Republic (except perhaps Surrey)).
I suppose the thorny question (as it was before) is who gets to vote. Should the franchise be extended to Ulster-born people residing in the UK or even the Republic of Ireland and why stop there? I don't know.
Another one of life's conundrums seems to be what (if anything) will facilitate a Labour split. 248 Labour MPs voted against the WA in mid January but I suppose if some of them were to be no longer part of the Parliamentary Party that might change. I wonder if May is hoping for a Labour split (divide and conquer) or terrified (new Party sweeps ahead in polls, some Conservatives jump ship too). She seems to have her own issues with Mr Grieve.
Nearly 40 years on from the Limehouse Declaration and the launch of the SDP (what a mad time that was), could we be looking at something similar or very different? If they broke away now, would a new Party (along with the Brexit Party) seek to run candidates in local elections - would Labour Council groups split as well allowing for changes of control?
Back on topic, the question for me is whether agreement to a second independence referendum would be the price for SNP support for a minority Labour administration at Westminster?0 -
CDU - Corbyn Defeated Us!!
Chris Leslie takes a step closer towards leaving Labour for the new 'CDU' centrist party that by all accounts is days away from being set up
"For me idea that the Labour party is not together and arguing against this disaster is for me entirely heartbreaking."0 -
Terrorism Act 2000. Being a member of ISIS is a crime in itself.OnlyLivingBoy said:If she is guilty of any crimes she should be prosecuted for them according to the rule of law.
0 -
So he will leave without rancour? Is Macdonnell safely ensconced still?Philip_Thompson said:
He's no Roy Jenkins.numbertwelve said:Is Chukka the starting pistol for SDP II?
0 -
-
I am a woolly-minded liberal, but as far as I am concerned she is an enemy combatant and deserves the appropriate treatment.murali_s said:
For once I agree with you, MaxPB (a first!).MaxPB said:Only on pb can you see defenders of the terrorist traitor. Disgusting.
She should not be allowed back in the UK - period!0 -
I would have thought there is good grounds for putting the baby up for new identity and adoption.SeanT said:
I agree on the poor innocent baby. If it can be done safely, she should give the baby up and let him/her be flown home to her wider family in the UK, however repulsive they are.OnlyLivingBoy said:
As far as I can see nobody has tried to punish her for anything, presumably for the reason that amid all the carnage and misery in Syria and Iraq her crimes are most likely fairly meaningless. My guess would be that there are too many with ties to IS in these countries for them all to be dealt with by the criminal justice system, and it makes sense for them to go after leaders, or at least fighters, rather than useful idiots and raped teenaged girls. As for helping her get home, if the UK authorities think she is guilty of something they should bring her home to face trial, and if they think she isn't then she should receive consular assistance if practical (although it may not be). At the very least, her unborn child is innocent of any crime and deserves our help - I don't think that is arguable.
The rest of your argument is incorrect. Syria is in chaos but the Iraqis, Kurds and Turks are absolutely eager and keen to arrest, judge and punish every ISIS member they can find. She would certainly be of interest to Iraqi courts. It is estimated that 20,000 Isis members are in Iraqi jails, many hundreds have been executed.
Moreover:
"Iraq's anti-terrorism law empowers courts to convict people who are believed to have helped ISIS even if they are not accused of carrying out attacks.
It also allows for the death penalty to be issued against anyone -- including non-combatants -- found guilty of belonging to ISIS"
That's their law. If she was at any point in Iraq, and it can be proved, she will probably be hung or shot, or at best get life in prison.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iraq-turkish-alleged-isis-women-sentenced-death-by-hanging/
I find this as brutal as anybody, but I am even more uncomfortable with the idea of helping her evade justice in the places where she committed her crimes.0 -
Yawnjustin124 said:
Well you certainly showed your expertise in May 2017 when you dismissed the prospect of the SNP falling below 50 seats. You were so keen to accept bets re-that proposition.malcolmg said:
LOL, Scotland expert NOTjustin124 said:
Very unlikely that Labour would agree to that given the clear lack of appetite for it now in Scotland.Such a move would drive pro-Union Labour voters into voting Tory.stodge said:Afternoon all
In London today for a Conference and walked round Parliament Square as the double decker "Leave" bus kept circling. Ah, the theatre. By the by, magical to walk down Horse Guards this morning - a part of London I don't often see but beautiful to see the Palace through the trees.
On topic, I won't die in a ditch for the Union unlike Theresa May. If the population of Ulster votes freely and fairly to secede and join the Irish Republic fine (ditto for Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, London or Surrey not that I expect any of them to join the Irish Republic (except perhaps Surrey)).
I suppose the thorny question (as it was before) is who gets to vote. Should the franchise be extended to Ulster-born people residing in the UK or even the Republic of Ireland and why stop there? I don't know.
Another one of life's conundrums seems to be what (if anything) will facilitate a Labour split. 248 Labour MPs voted against the WA in mid January but I suppose if some of them were to be no longer part of the Parliamentary Party that might change. I wonder if May is hoping for a Labour split (divide and conquer) or terrified (new Party sweeps ahead in polls, some Conservatives jump ship too). She seems to have her own issues with Mr Grieve.
Nearly 40 years on from the Limehouse Declaration and the launch of the SDP (what a mad time that was), could we be looking at something similar or very different? If they broke away now, would a new Party (along with the Brexit Party) seek to run candidates in local elections - would Labour Council groups split as well allowing for changes of control?
Back on topic, the question for me is whether agreement to a second independence referendum would be the price for SNP support for a minority Labour administration at Westminster?0 -
-
There is such an unkind pun could be made about a teenager with three children having a lot of hard labour...malcolmg said:
20 years hard labour is what she needsOnlyLivingBoy said:
She was a kid. She is still barely an adult. She has the same rights as you and I, regardless of her views, which I find just as repellent as you do. She is entitled to use our health service, like all British citizens. If she is guilty of any crimes she should be prosecuted for them according to the rule of law.SeanT said:
FFS she joined a Nazi death cult. And went to great lengths to do so, showing cunning and intelligence. She secretly crossed frontiers, just so she could support a terror group which was burning people alive and slaving 1000s of women and committing genocidal atrocities and gleefully putting this all online. She joined AFTER we saw all of thatOnlyLivingBoy said:
With reference to the Sky poll, I can't help feeling there tends to be a different view when a white Briton is accused of something abroad (cf Louise Woodward), the most common response not generally being 'they are certainly guilty and should face the full force of the justice system in the country they find themselves in' ... particularly if they are not even undergoing prosecution for any crime in that country.SeanT said:
It is very certainly a crime to be a member or supporter of ISIS in any way, in Iraq. So she has broken Iraqi law and I'd be surprised if she was not in Iraq at some point. Mosul was their sacred capital for a while.
To me the case has a lot of parallels with the child grooming gangs in Rochdale etc, a child who was groomed and sexually exploited by criminals. At the very least, her child is blameless, and a British citizen, and deserves the protection of the British state. In our fight against Isis and its vile ideology, we shouldn't lose our sense of humanity.
Four years later she expresses absolutely no remorse for this, she still thinks it is OK to behead non-believers, she wishes the Caliphate had prospered, she makes no apology at all to the tens of thousands of ISIS victims, mouldering in their mass graves. She's an unrepentant Nazi. What's more, she's an entitled little Nazi who thinks the British tax payer should fund her rescue, so she can come home and use our free health service.
Comparing her to some vulnerable girl from a care home, in Rochdale, groomed by Asian sex gangs, is grotesque nonsense, and borderline offensive.
But it would be tasteless.0 -
If the baby makes it back here yes. I don't see that being likely and we don't have jurisdiction in Syria to solely repatriate the baby.another_richard said:
I would have thought there is good grounds for putting the baby up for new identity and adoption.SeanT said:
I agree on the poor innocent baby. If it can be done safely, she should give the baby up and let him/her be flown home to her wider family in the UK, however repulsive they are.OnlyLivingBoy said:
As far as I can see nobody has tried to punish her for anything, presumably for the reason that amid all the carnage and misery in Syria and Iraq her crimes are most likely fairly meaningless. My guess would be that there are too many with ties to IS in these countries for them all to be dealt with by the criminal justice system, and it makes sense for them to go after leaders, or at least fighters, rather than useful idiots and raped teenaged girls. As for helping her get home, if the UK authorities think she is guilty of something they should bring her home to face trial, and if they think she isn't then she should receive consular assistance if practical (although it may not be). At the very least, her unborn child is innocent of any crime and deserves our help - I don't think that is arguable.
The rest of your argument is incorrect. Syria is in chaos but the Iraqis, Kurds and Turks are absolutely eager and keen to arrest, judge and punish every ISIS member they can find. She would certainly be of interest to Iraqi courts. It is estimated that 20,000 Isis members are in Iraqi jails, many hundreds have been executed.
Moreover:
"Iraq's anti-terrorism law empowers courts to convict people who are believed to have helped ISIS even if they are not accused of carrying out attacks.
It also allows for the death penalty to be issued against anyone -- including non-combatants -- found guilty of belonging to ISIS"
That's their law. If she was at any point in Iraq, and it can be proved, she will probably be hung or shot, or at best get life in prison.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iraq-turkish-alleged-isis-women-sentenced-death-by-hanging/
I find this as brutal as anybody, but I am even more uncomfortable with the idea of helping her evade justice in the places where she committed her crimes.0 -
That is correct and applies to the replacement candidate if the decision is no.another_richard said:
But I believe they also need to be on the CCHQ approved candidate list.ralphmalph said:
As I understand it all Tory MP's have to ask their associations if the association are still happy for them to be the candidate. The association can say no.another_richard said:For Conservative party experts - could May call a GE and then deselect all saboteur MPs ?
I know she couldn't stop them still standing for parliament but could she replace them as the official Conservative candidates in their constituency ?
Otherwise you could have someone elected as an Conservative who opposed the Conservative party as long as he managed to flood a local association with supporters.
0 -
Take the points but as regards Assad's Syria I think it's extremely arguable that we should encourage them to 'do as they see fit' with a British teenage girl.SeanT said:
But morally we are obliged to ask the permission of the Syrians and Iraqis before allowing her home, given that, if she has committed crimes, she has aided and abetted these crimes - possibly terrible crimes - against Syrian and Iraqi people, against the Yazidis especially.
They are the victims, not her. This is crucial. They are the ones who deserve justice, and deserve to see it done. They are the ones whose daughters, sons, brothers and sisters were raped, killed, beheaded and burned alive. By ISIS.
Given our own culpabiity for the chaos in Iraq, which gave birth to ISIS, the least we can do is let them judge and punish ISIS members, as they see fit.
If they refuse to have anything to do with her, fine, she can try and get home. Then British justice must do its thing.
I really don't think this is arguable.0 -
Better to defect to the LDs than resign. Chukka would make an interesting LD leader for example.0
-
Interesting header but Attlee in 1945 and 1950 and Wilson in 1966 and October 1975 both won most seats in England as well as Blair in 1997, 2001 and 2005 (though Howard won most votes in the latter in England if not most seats).
Even if Remain voting Scotland votes for independent and Remain voting Northern Ireland for Irish unification in the event of No Deal I cannot see Wales joining them. Not only did Wales vote Leave but Plaid is far weaker than its fellow nationalist parties in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Plaid has never won most seats in Wales in the Welsh Assembly unlike the SNP and at the 2017 general election Plaid got just 10% compared to the 37% the SNP got and the 27% Sinn Fein got.
Do not forget either Wales was informally united with England in the 13th century and formally in the 16th century, well before Scotland joined the Union in the 18th century and Ireland joined the Union in the 19th century0 -
You had the good taste to not go there thoughydoethur said:
There is such an unkind pun could be made about a teenager with three children having a lot of hard labour...malcolmg said:
20 years hard labour is what she needsOnlyLivingBoy said:
She was a kid. She is still barely an adult. She has the same rights as you and I, regardless of her views, which I find just as repellent as you do. She is entitled to use our health service, like all British citizens. If she is guilty of any crimes she should be prosecuted for them according to the rule of law.SeanT said:
FFS she joined a Nazi death cult. And went to great lengths to do so, showing cunning and intelligence. She secretly crossed frontiers, just so she could support a terror group which was burning people alive and slaving 1000s of women and committing genocidal atrocities and gleefully putting this all online. She joined AFTER we saw all of thatOnlyLivingBoy said:
With reference to the Sky poll, I can't help feeling there tends to be a different view when a white Briton is accused of something abroad (cf Louise Woodward), the most common response not generally being 'they are certainly guilty and should face the full force of the justice system in the country they find themselves in' ... particularly if they are not even undergoing prosecution for any crime in that country.SeanT said:
It is very certainly a crime to be a member or supporter of ISIS in any way, in Iraq. So she has broken Iraqi law and I'd be surprised if she was not in Iraq at some point. Mosul was their sacred capital for a while.
To me the case has a lot of parallels with the child grooming gangs in Rochdale etc, a child who was groomed and sexually exploited by criminals. At the very least, her child is blameless, and a British citizen, and deserves the protection of the British state. In our fight against Isis and its vile ideology, we shouldn't lose our sense of humanity.
Four years later she expresses absolutely no remorse for this, she still thinks it is OK to behead non-believers, she wishes the Caliphate had prospered, she makes no apology at all to the tens of thousands of ISIS victims, mouldering in their mass graves. She's an unrepentant Nazi. What's more, she's an entitled little Nazi who thinks the British tax payer should fund her rescue, so she can come home and use our free health service.
Comparing her to some vulnerable girl from a care home, in Rochdale, groomed by Asian sex gangs, is grotesque nonsense, and borderline offensive.
But it would be tasteless.0 -
Really?TheScreamingEagles said:
So Skawkbox published rubbish made up in the paranoid recesses of what passes for Steven Walker's mind?
Where's that Aladdin clip someone posted earlier?0 -
Yes, we should lean on Turkey to prosecute her.rcs1000 said:Re said evil IS lady
Does she have any citizenship other than British?*
It matter because we are signatories to two treaties (1954 and 1961), that impose serious restrictions on our ability to remove citizenship from people who have no other citizenship. If another country were to chuck her on a plane to the UK, we would have very little choice other than to accept her.**
Fortunately, it seems like she is likely guilty of a litany of crimes, so we can probably lean on Turkey, Syria and the like to prosecute her, and so the situation will hopefully resolve itself without us having to do anything.
* I said at the time we should recognise IS as a state, as it would save us a ton of problems later.
** We could always withdraw or abrogate these treaties. There are no exit clauses on these, so in theory that's impossible. But the reality is that we could leave them unilaterally, as with the backstop, at any time we chose.
On the treaties against statelessness, they aren't fit for the modern era. They don't take into account stateless operators like IS, we should be able revoke citizenship I'm cases where there is incontrovertible proof that a person has declared themselves allied to a hostile entity, nation or not.0 -
For now, yes.bigjohnowls said:
Are you a member?murali_s said:
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).bigjohnowls said:Skwawkbox says Chukka has gone
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/14/breaking-multiple-sources-umunna-to-resign-labour-whip-tonight/
Let's see how Brexit unfolds to see if I continue to be a member.
I am losing faith to be honest. Just look at the Labour front bench. The fact that Keir Starmer (who's not that great) is head and shoulders above any one else is a worry0 -
An excellent point.another_richard said:
Wouldn't recognizing IS as a state when it was operating in the territory of other countries have led to diplomatic complications with those countries ?rcs1000 said:Re said evil IS lady
Does she have any citizenship other than British?*
It matter because we are signatories to two treaties (1954 and 1961), that impose serious restrictions on our ability to remove citizenship from people who have no other citizenship. If another country were to chuck her on a plane to the UK, we would have very little choice other than to accept her.**
Fortunately, it seems like she is likely guilty of a litany of crimes, so we can probably lean on Turkey, Syria and the like to prosecute her, and so the situation will hopefully resolve itself without us having to do anything.
* I said at the time we should recognise IS as a state, as it would save us a ton of problems later.
** We could always withdraw or abrogate these treaties. There are no exit clauses on these, so in theory that's impossible. But the reality is that we could leave them unilaterally, as with the backstop, at any time we chose.
Well, we recognised the existence of Germany the state, even when it was operating inside - for example - France, so that shouldn't be impossible. We could always give them a bit of uninhabitable land somewhere if necessary... Heck, maybe any of them* who want to live on Rockall should be free to do so.
* So long as they're able to get their entirely on their own steam without using the territorial waters or airspace of any other country.0 -
Who hates everything this country stands for.kinabalu said:
Take the points but as regards Assad's Syria I think it's extremely arguable that we should encourage them to 'do as they see fit' with a British teenage girl.SeanT said:
But morally we are obliged to ask the permission of the Syrians and Iraqis before allowing her home, given that, if she has committed crimes, she has aided and abetted these crimes - possibly terrible crimes - against Syrian and Iraqi people, against the Yazidis especially.
They are the victims, not her. This is crucial. They are the ones who deserve justice, and deserve to see it done. They are the ones whose daughters, sons, brothers and sisters were raped, killed, beheaded and burned alive. By ISIS.
Given our own culpabiity for the chaos in Iraq, which gave birth to ISIS, the least we can do is let them judge and punish ISIS members, as they see fit.
If they refuse to have anything to do with her, fine, she can try and get home. Then British justice must do its thing.
I really don't think this is arguable.
She has made her choice.
0 -
Even more curious about this 8pm thing now then...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Ha Ha Ha Ha HaSeanT said:0 -
So Swkawkbox still haven't got a story right? Shame.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
So Chuka has a 'spokesperson' ?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
She's not British. She gave up that moral right the day she decided to join IS.kinabalu said:
Take the points but as regards Assad's Syria I think it's extremely arguable that we should encourage them to 'do as they see fit' with a British teenage girl.SeanT said:
But morally we are obliged to ask the permission of the Syrians and Iraqis before allowing her home, given that, if she has committed crimes, she has aided and abetted these crimes - possibly terrible crimes - against Syrian and Iraqi people, against the Yazidis especially.
They are the victims, not her. This is crucial. They are the ones who deserve justice, and deserve to see it done. They are the ones whose daughters, sons, brothers and sisters were raped, killed, beheaded and burned alive. By ISIS.
Given our own culpabiity for the chaos in Iraq, which gave birth to ISIS, the least we can do is let them judge and punish ISIS members, as they see fit.
If they refuse to have anything to do with her, fine, she can try and get home. Then British justice must do its thing.
I really don't think this is arguable.0 -
That applies in the UK. She is not in the UK. She is subject to the laws of the place where she is now.SouthamObserver said:
What’s Jacob Rees Mogg’s handle on here?MaxPB said:Only on pb can you see defenders of the terrorist traitor. Disgusting.
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1096045001119653893?s=210 -
I reckon the 8pm thing is Mesut Ozil declaring he's defecting to Spurs.0
-
That doesn't solve the problem, though. Ultimately, people need to have somewhere to which they are sent. If said IS lady doesn't have a state, are the poor Lebanese - if she's ended up in a refugee camp there - responsible for her?MaxPB said:
Yes, we should lean on Turkey to prosecute her.rcs1000 said:Re said evil IS lady
Does she have any citizenship other than British?*
It matter because we are signatories to two treaties (1954 and 1961), that impose serious restrictions on our ability to remove citizenship from people who have no other citizenship. If another country were to chuck her on a plane to the UK, we would have very little choice other than to accept her.**
Fortunately, it seems like she is likely guilty of a litany of crimes, so we can probably lean on Turkey, Syria and the like to prosecute her, and so the situation will hopefully resolve itself without us having to do anything.
* I said at the time we should recognise IS as a state, as it would save us a ton of problems later.
** We could always withdraw or abrogate these treaties. There are no exit clauses on these, so in theory that's impossible. But the reality is that we could leave them unilaterally, as with the backstop, at any time we chose.
On the treaties against statelessness, they aren't fit for the modern era. They don't take into account stateless operators like IS, we should be able revoke citizenship I'm cases where there is incontrovertible proof that a person has declared themselves allied to a hostile entity, nation or not.0 -
Labour are going to ban Corbyn from talking about manhole covers, jam or allotments.TheJezziah said:
Even more curious about this 8pm thing now then...TheScreamingEagles said:
He's going to enter a legal challenge under Article 5 that this is cruel and unusual punishment, and World popcorn supplies will collapse.0 -
LOLtlg86 said:I reckon the 8pm thing is Mesut Ozil declaring he's defecting to Spurs.
0 -
Yes, LBC have something embargoed till 8pm... I got the impression it was from the Tory side though.TheJezziah said:
Even more curious about this 8pm thing now then...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I have a heard from a reliable source that a cross party group of MPs will form an alliance to stop No Deal Brexit.
I wonder if that's the 8pm announcement.
Now back to my Valentine's Day break.0 -
Endillion said:
Would that be a clearer symptom of the End Times than a Labour MP growing a backbone?ydoethur said:
I shall be interested to see if something truly extraordinary, incredible and bordering on miraculous has happened - Skwawkbox has got a story right.bigjohnowls said:Skwawkbox says Chukka has gone
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/14/breaking-multiple-sources-umunna-to-resign-labour-whip-tonight/
LOL
0 -
I think once we revoke citizenship we can pay whichever country she ends up in to deal with her however they see fit.rcs1000 said:
That doesn't solve the problem, though. Ultimately, people need to have somewhere to which they are sent. If said IS lady doesn't have a state, are the poor Lebanese - if she's ended up in a refugee camp there - responsible for her?MaxPB said:
Yes, we should lean on Turkey to prosecute her.rcs1000 said:Re said evil IS lady
Does she have any citizenship other than British?*
It matter because we are signatories to two treaties (1954 and 1961), that impose serious restrictions on our ability to remove citizenship from people who have no other citizenship. If another country were to chuck her on a plane to the UK, we would have very little choice other than to accept her.**
Fortunately, it seems like she is likely guilty of a litany of crimes, so we can probably lean on Turkey, Syria and the like to prosecute her, and so the situation will hopefully resolve itself without us having to do anything.
* I said at the time we should recognise IS as a state, as it would save us a ton of problems later.
** We could always withdraw or abrogate these treaties. There are no exit clauses on these, so in theory that's impossible. But the reality is that we could leave them unilaterally, as with the backstop, at any time we chose.
On the treaties against statelessness, they aren't fit for the modern era. They don't take into account stateless operators like IS, we should be able revoke citizenship I'm cases where there is incontrovertible proof that a person has declared themselves allied to a hostile entity, nation or not.
In practical terms, money talks.0 -
How?TheScreamingEagles said:I have a heard from a reliable source that a cross party group of MPs will form an alliance to stop No Deal Brexit.
I wonder if that's the 8pm announcement.
Now back to my Valentine's Day break.
You can delay a no deal Brexit but how can you stop it?0 -
Skwawkbox are like a jockstrap, full of bollocks.ydoethur said:
Really?TheScreamingEagles said:
So Skawkbox published rubbish made up in the paranoid recesses of what passes for Steven Walker's mind?
Where's that Aladdin clip someone posted earlier?0 -
Quite often - oh - you meant a Labour member........bigjohnowls said:
Are you a member?murali_s said:
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).bigjohnowls said:Skwawkbox says Chukka has gone
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/14/breaking-multiple-sources-umunna-to-resign-labour-whip-tonight/0 -
Several avenues apparently.Philip_Thompson said:
How?TheScreamingEagles said:I have a heard from a reliable source that a cross party group of MPs will form an alliance to stop No Deal Brexit.
I wonder if that's the 8pm announcement.
Now back to my Valentine's Day break.
You can delay a no deal Brexit but how can you stop it?0 -
If Remaining is everything to you maybe you will end up Leaving the party.murali_s said:
For now, yes.bigjohnowls said:
Are you a member?murali_s said:
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).bigjohnowls said:Skwawkbox says Chukka has gone
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/02/14/breaking-multiple-sources-umunna-to-resign-labour-whip-tonight/
Let's see how Brexit unfolds to see if I continue to be a member.
I am losing faith to be honest. Just look at the Labour front bench. The fact that Keir Starmer (who's not that great) is head and shoulders above any one else is a worry
To me its a side issue compared to replacing the Tories in Government0 -
How? By voting for the damn deal at last?TheScreamingEagles said:I have a heard from a reliable source that a cross party group of MPs will form an alliance to stop No Deal Brexit.
I wonder if that's the 8pm announcement.
Now back to my Valentine's Day break.
Because if not it isn't in their gift and it's just more drunken posturing.0 -
One way, by revoking A50 with a clause saying we will only Leave once a deal has been agreed and ratified by both parties.ydoethur said:
How? By voting for the damn deal at last?TheScreamingEagles said:I have a heard from a reliable source that a cross party group of MPs will form an alliance to stop No Deal Brexit.
I wonder if that's the 8pm announcement.
Now back to my Valentine's Day break.
Because if not it isn't in their gift and it's just more drunken posturing.0 -
Such as?TheScreamingEagles said:
Several avenues apparently.Philip_Thompson said:
How?TheScreamingEagles said:I have a heard from a reliable source that a cross party group of MPs will form an alliance to stop No Deal Brexit.
I wonder if that's the 8pm announcement.
Now back to my Valentine's Day break.
You can delay a no deal Brexit but how can you stop it?
Deal, no deal or revoke. Those are the only end states. Until Parliament comes down to either a deal or revoke then no deal is the legal default as per Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.0 -
Indeed, though not surprising that JRM has come out with such bollocks given his current form on everything else.Cyclefree said:
That applies in the UK. She is not in the UK. She is subject to the laws of the place where she is now.SouthamObserver said:
What’s Jacob Rees Mogg’s handle on here?MaxPB said:Only on pb can you see defenders of the terrorist traitor. Disgusting.
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1096045001119653893?s=210 -
Feels about right. The numbers will be interesting.TheScreamingEagles said:I have a heard from a reliable source that a cross party group of MPs will form an alliance to stop No Deal Brexit.
I wonder if that's the 8pm announcement.
Now back to my Valentine's Day break.
I expect its significance and impact to be grossly overhyped.0 -
Formation of the No Way Our Local Party Will Ever Select Us Again Party? Led by Sourbry and Chris Leslie.Philip_Thompson said:So news at 8pm supposedly about Tory splits and Labour splits.
Come on Umunma, Grieve, Soubry et al and split. Bring it on.0 -
9 mins to Chukexit0
-
Oh, whoop-de-do.TheScreamingEagles said:I have a heard from a reliable source that a cross party group of MPs will form an alliance to stop No Deal Brexit.
0 -
That "laughing stock" doesn't bother me---after all we're famous for our "humour" (see Ben Jonson eg).murali_s said:Brexit - a calmaity
Bexiteers = xenophobes / little Englanders / thick mofos
The UK is now a laughing stock!!
How are the morons who voted Leave feeling now?
No: it's the practicalities that worry me.
Let's get Trump to sort us out.0 -
Funny how many people who have argued changes from the EU are impossible to get are now saying it will be harder. What's harder than impossible?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Since the EU won't negotiate unless A50 has been invoked, and since we can't extend it without their consent, that wouldn't be exactly helpful.TheScreamingEagles said:
One way, by revoking A50 with a clause saying we will only Leave once a deal has been agreed and ratified by both parties.ydoethur said:
How? By voting for the damn deal at last?TheScreamingEagles said:I have a heard from a reliable source that a cross party group of MPs will form an alliance to stop No Deal Brexit.
I wonder if that's the 8pm announcement.
Now back to my Valentine's Day break.
Because if not it isn't in their gift and it's just more drunken posturing.0 -
Wasn't the original 8pm tweet about specific Tory infighting rather than anything else?0
-
Trying to point out reality to an MP.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how many people who have argued changes from the EU are impossible to get are now saying it will be harder. What's harder than impossible?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
She's been here loads of times I believe.tlg86 said:I couldn't give a fuck about Mrs Assad as long as she doesn't want to come here.
I mention her more from the point of view of considering to what extent women should be held culpable for the violence of their men. Because violence is almost exclusively a male thing let's face it.
But any case don't worry - sounds like this one is a slam dunk in your mind.0 -
Indeed. Whenever the ERG back May they're said to have caved in, when they oppose they are said to be stupid.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how many people who have argued changes from the EU are impossible to get are now saying it will be harder. What's harder than impossible?TheScreamingEagles said:
Most of the commentators that get retwatted on here know as much as any of us. That is, nothing.0 -
-
That is a unicorn I'm afraid.TheScreamingEagles said:
One way, by revoking A50 with a clause saying we will only Leave once a deal has been agreed and ratified by both parties.ydoethur said:
How? By voting for the damn deal at last?TheScreamingEagles said:I have a heard from a reliable source that a cross party group of MPs will form an alliance to stop No Deal Brexit.
I wonder if that's the 8pm announcement.
Now back to my Valentine's Day break.
Because if not it isn't in their gift and it's just more drunken posturing.
If we revoke then the EU no longer has the legal right to negotiate a leave deal with us. That is the whole basis of Article 50. It is why they would not start negotiations until we had triggered it.0 -
I also think sufficient Tories may support remaining in a/the customs union to the end Brexit impasse.0
-
nearly 8pm....tick tock..0
-
Yes, how else can it be stopped.ydoethur said:
How? By voting for the damn deal at last?TheScreamingEagles said:I have a heard from a reliable source that a cross party group of MPs will form an alliance to stop No Deal Brexit.
I wonder if that's the 8pm announcement.
Now back to my Valentine's Day break.
Because if not it isn't in their gift and it's just more drunken posturing.0 -
I think it's the right move now, question is how to do it without tearing the party apart and how to stop Corbyn getting inTheScreamingEagles said:I also think sufficient Tories may support remaining in a/the customs union to the end Brexit impasse.
0 -
-
Except that’s not a boom.RobD said:
It’s a squib, with promise of boom.0
