Parliament voted 318 to 310 against No Deal, that could easily turn into a 318 to 310 vote for permanent Customs Union membership, higher if Tory ministers like Rudd and Clark resign to vote for a permanent Customs Union to stop No Deal
I also think sufficient Tories may support remaining in a/the customs union to the end Brexit impasse.
If we end up permanently locked in the CU, yet outside the SM, the most damaging and pointless Brexit of all, then I shall officially declare my Brexit vote an error. Because such an outcome is clearly inferior to Remaining, where at least we get to make the rules, not just take them.
It's also very possible we would find this position so irksome we would rejoin within a few years.
It might come down to semantics, a custom union vs the customs union.
I also think sufficient Tories may support remaining in a/the customs union to the end Brexit impasse.
If we end up permanently locked in the CU, yet outside the SM, the most damaging and pointless Brexit of all, then I shall officially declare my Brexit vote an error. Because such an outcome is clearly inferior to Remaining, where at least we get to make the rules, not just take them.
It's also very possible we would find this position so irksome we would rejoin within a few years.
We may as well Revoke and Remain if the alternative is in a CU but outside the SM. There is no point to that at all.
I would not be surprised if, having left, we applied to rejoin and the EU turned us down on the grounds that we are too stupid to understand what we are doing.
The last few weeks are giving the rest of the world the impression that our political class are utter morons who have only the barest grasp of the realities of the world around them.
She expressly says it is OK to behead non-believers in her interview. That's surely a crime in itself: incitement to violence, and so on. Moreover, it doesn't really matter what we think or what British law says. Morally and ethically we must yield to the people of Syria and Iraq - the slaved and raped Yazidi women with slaughtered fathers and husbands - they are the victims of ISIS, they should decide what happens to her.
My guess is "send her back to Britain so she can have free health care" would not be their immediate reaction, if asked.
Perhaps I am being too bleeding heart liberal but I don't think so. I'm not suggesting that the UK govt owes her any major effort (or perhaps any effort) to get her home.
But, yes, if we assume that she was not a participant in atrocities, and bearing in mind that she was just 15 when she went, and is only 19 and heavily pregnant now, then her returning, junking the Islamist ideology, and resettling here represents to my mind a good outcome.
BTW, at the risk of whataboutery I wonder what the general feeling is about Asma al-Assad (apart from that she's a looker)?
She's not a teenager and she's not pregnant, but she is 'one of ours' and she is married to a man responsible for atrocities in Syria of a nature and scale almost beyond belief.
I also think sufficient Tories may support remaining in a/the customs union to the end Brexit impasse.
If we end up permanently locked in the CU, yet outside the SM, the most damaging and pointless Brexit of all, then I shall officially declare my Brexit vote an error. Because such an outcome is clearly inferior to Remaining, where at least we get to make the rules, not just take them.
It's also very possible we would find this position so irksome we would rejoin within a few years.
Turkey seems to manage inside a Customs Union but outside the EU and Single Market though it would be rather amusing if those Leave posters advocating voting Leave to keep out Turks ended up with us voting Leave to become Turks!
Your forgot that the consequences “MAY” be interesting - journalist will get to write shit about whether any Conservative MPs will join the Farage*. pension accumulation show.
*iOS converted this to Farrago, which seems appropriate.
To be fair, it’s only not a big story because the rules have changed. Five years ago a minister calling dozens of his own party’s MPs traitors and telling them to leave would have had a fair impact. Back then not eating a bacon sandwich properly got you all over the front pages.
Presumably the next stunning revelation will involve an MP in the Labour party not liking and agreeing with some other members of the Labour party. Also rumours that the SNP would favour an independent Scotland over staying in the UK...
I also think sufficient Tories may support remaining in a/the customs union to the end Brexit impasse.
If we end up permanently locked in the CU, yet outside the SM, the most damaging and pointless Brexit of all, then I shall officially declare my Brexit vote an error. Because such an outcome is clearly inferior to Remaining, where at least we get to make the rules, not just take them.
It's also very possible we would find this position so irksome we would rejoin within a few years.
Which, of course, has been the EU's game plan all along.
Your forgot that the consequences “MAY” be interesting - journalist will get to write shit about whether any Conservative MPs will join the Farage*. pension accumulation show.
*iOS converted this to Farrago, which seems appropriate.
There was a young man named Farage Who one day got locked in his garage He campaigned so hard But let down his guard And fell to an electoral barrage
To be fair, it’s only not a big story because the rules have changed. Five years ago a minister calling dozens of his own party’s MPs traitors and telling them to leave would have had a fair impact. Back then not eating a bacon sandwich properly got you all over the front pages.
Yes, but right now it is just lame. What a letdown.
To be fair, it’s only not a big story because the rules have changed. Five years ago a minister calling dozens of his own party’s MPs traitors and telling them to leave would have had a fair impact. Back then not eating a bacon sandwich properly got you all over the front pages.
Yes, but right now it is just lame. What a letdown.
To be fair, it’s only not a big story because the rules have changed. Five years ago a minister calling dozens of his own party’s MPs traitors and telling them to leave would have had a fair impact. Back then not eating a bacon sandwich properly got you all over the front pages.
Yes, but right now it is just lame. What a letdown.
To be fair, it’s only not a big story because the rules have changed. Five years ago a minister calling dozens of his own party’s MPs traitors and telling them to leave would have had a fair impact. Back then not eating a bacon sandwich properly got you all over the front pages.
Yes, but right now it is just lame. What a letdown.
Boo I am off to bed
Chukka now quitting on 29th February!!!!
I'm afraid you're clearly stuck with him unless he's deselected - he's a coward who is going nowhere, like dozens of Tories.
It is still notable that being a Remain minister or Leave minister is still such an important distinction. The Tories are not a coalition of views, they are separate parties, the man didn't go far enough.
I think any journalists ramping that story on Twitter should receive a cruel and unusual punishment: listening to Radiohead for 24 hours whilst eating pizza topped with pineapple.
She's not British. She gave up that moral right the day she decided to join IS.
She is British. You don't stop being British due to wicked behaviour. Ian Brady was British until the day he died. This teenage girl who was indoctrinated into Islamic fascism and ran away at 15 to be a jihadi bride and based on her interview is unrepentant is. .. British.
Your forgot that the consequences “MAY” be interesting - journalist will get to write shit about whether any Conservative MPs will join the Farage*. pension accumulation show.
*iOS converted this to Farrago, which seems appropriate.
There was a young man named Farage Who one day got locked in his garage He campaigned so hard But let down his guard And fell to an electoral barrage
There was a young man named Sunil Who tried all our patience until He attempted so hard And his rhyming so jarred That he lost everybody's goodwill.
She's not British. She gave up that moral right the day she decided to join IS.
She is British. You don't stop being British due to wicked behaviour. Ian Brady was British until the day he died. This teenage girl who was indoctrinated into Islamic fascism and ran away at 15 to be a jihadi bride and based on her interview is unrepentant is. .. British.
I thought that all supporters of IS had to pledge allegiance to Islamic State, a Bay'a. Legally it may not mean she has given up British Citizenship, morally maybe a different answer.
She's not British. She gave up that moral right the day she decided to join IS.
She is British. You don't stop being British due to wicked behaviour. Ian Brady was British until the day he died. This teenage girl who was indoctrinated into Islamic fascism and ran away at 15 to be a jihadi bride and based on her interview is unrepentant is. .. British.
She is not in the UK. She is subject to the laws of the place where she is now.
I also think sufficient Tories may support remaining in a/the customs union to the end Brexit impasse.
If we end up permanently locked in the CU, yet outside the SM, the most damaging and pointless Brexit of all, then I shall officially declare my Brexit vote an error. Because such an outcome is clearly inferior to Remaining, where at least we get to make the rules, not just take them.
It's also very possible we would find this position so irksome we would rejoin within a few years.
We may as well Revoke and Remain if the alternative is in a CU but outside the SM. There is no point to that at all.
I would not be surprised if, having left, we applied to rejoin and the EU turned us down on the grounds that we are too stupid to understand what we are doing.
The last few weeks are giving the rest of the world the impression that our political class are utter morons who have only the barest grasp of the realities of the world around them.
Agreed. I have had more than a few epiphanies these last months, as one MP after another (on all sides or the argument) has been revealed as a total, dribbling cretin. Same goes for lots pf pundits and "experts" - again, on both sides - who've turned out to be wholly clueless. But the MPs are the worst. My daughter's new hamster would do better in government than this caravan of imbeciles, charlatans and cowards.
Deary me.
A hamster probably goes around in circles less than our MPs
So - the govt being defeated in a meaningless motion, 🐻 shits in woods ERG "treachery" story and remain MPs in both parties deciding now is... not quite the time. Truly nothing has changed !
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).
Are you a member?
For now, yes.
Let's see how Brexit unfolds to see if I continue to be a member.
I am losing faith to be honest. Just look at the Labour front bench. The fact that Keir Starmer (who's not that great) is head and shoulders above any one else is a worry
If Remaining is everything to you maybe you will end up Leaving the party.
To me its a side issue compared to replacing the Tories in Government
For me as a life long member Brexit is a massive issue and I am furious with Corbyn for going down that path, against the will of the membership. I have lost faith in him but the Party is bigger than any one individual and I will continue to support it wholeheartedly.
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).
Are you a member?
For now, yes.
Let's see how Brexit unfolds to see if I continue to be a member.
I am losing faith to be honest. Just look at the Labour front bench. The fact that Keir Starmer (who's not that great) is head and shoulders above any one else is a worry
If Remaining is everything to you maybe you will end up Leaving the party.
To me its a side issue compared to replacing the Tories in Government
For me as a life long member Brexit is a massive issue and I am furious with Corbyn for going down that path, against the will of the membership. I have lost faith in him but the Party is bigger than any one individual and I will continue to support it wholeheartedly.
Excepting Cardiff, every Labour constituency in Wales voted to Leave.
So - the govt being defeated in a meaningless motion, 🐻 shits in woods ERG "treachery" story and remain MPs in both parties deciding now is... not quite the time. Truly nothing has changed !
So - the govt being defeated in a meaningless motion, 🐻 shits in woods ERG "treachery" story and remain MPs in both parties deciding now is... not quite the time. Truly nothing has changed !
It is like an eBay auction.
Everything will happen in the last seconds of the listing.
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).
Are you a member?
For now, yes.
Let's see how Brexit unfolds to see if I continue to be a member.
I am losing faith to be honest. Just look at the Labour front bench. The fact that Keir Starmer (who's not that great) is head and shoulders above any one else is a worry
If Remaining is everything to you maybe you will end up Leaving the party.
To me its a side issue compared to replacing the Tories in Government
For me as a life long member Brexit is a massive issue and I am furious with Corbyn for going down that path, against the will of the membership. I have lost faith in him but the Party is bigger than any one individual and I will continue to support it wholeheartedly.
Excepting Cardiff, every Labour constituency in Wales voted to Leave.
So - the govt being defeated in a meaningless motion, 🐻 shits in woods ERG "treachery" story and remain MPs in both parties deciding now is... not quite the time. Truly nothing has changed !
The problem in the UK is there’s still deference to a push voice !
Which explains why JRM can spout nonsense on a daily basis and some are still duped by it. Even more bizarre is how some poor folk have been led to believe he has their best interests at heart .
One only has to read his fathers book to see how this helped shape Moggs current views . If you’re poor and voted Brexit you essentially asked to be poorer with even less of a safety net.
It’s quite incredible how so many voted against their own interests.
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).
Are you a member?
For now, yes.
Let's see how Brexit unfolds to see if I continue to be a member.
I am losing faith to be honest. Just look at the Labour front bench. The fact that Keir Starmer (who's not that great) is head and shoulders above any one else is a worry
If Remaining is everything to you maybe you will end up Leaving the party.
To me its a side issue compared to replacing the Tories in Government
For me as a life long member Brexit is a massive issue and I am furious with Corbyn for going down that path, against the will of the membership. I have lost faith in him but the Party is bigger than any one individual and I will continue to support it wholeheartedly.
Excepting Cardiff, every Labour constituency in Wales voted to Leave.
And?
So, it would seem Corbyn's views are in line with most Welsh voters.
E.g., in Blaenau Gwent 62 per cent voted Leave. They can't all be Tories, because there are hardly any Tories in Blaenau Gwent. They must be overwhelmingly Labour voters.
Agreed. I have had more than a few epiphanies these last months, as one MP after another (on all sides or the argument) has been revealed as a total, dribbling cretin. Same goes for lots pf pundits and "experts" - again, on both sides - who've turned out to be wholly clueless. But the MPs are the worst. My daughter's new hamster would do better in government than this caravan of imbeciles, charlatans and cowards.
Deary me.
In fairness we're not seeing individual MPs constantly changing their minds, apart from the "for two pins I'd resign from my party/Cabinet" types. Pretty much everyone else is quite consistent, to the point of stubbornness.
But I wonder why we think the EU would agree to a lengthy delay in A50. What reason have they to think that we will do more than continue to go round in circles? There's a German saying, "Besser ein schreckliches Ende als ein Schreck ohne Ende" (better a horrible end than an endless horror).
So - the govt being defeated in a meaningless motion, 🐻 shits in woods ERG "treachery" story and remain MPs in both parties deciding now is... not quite the time. Truly nothing has changed !
Government Minister publicly calls other government MPs traitors and should be expelled. Only in this dysfunctional govt is this a non story. Points to how low we’ve fallen.
Roses are red Violets are blue Brexit's still going OH FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST CAN'T SOMETHING MEANINGFUL ACTUALLY HAPPEN AND WE CAN ALL MOVE ON WITH OUR LIVES.
The problem in the UK is there’s still deference to a push voice !
Which explains why Jeremy Corbyn can spout nonsense on a daily basis and some are still duped by it. Even more bizarre is how some poor folk have been led to believe he has their best interests at heart .
One only has to read his fathers book to see how this helped shape Corbyn's current views . If you’re poor and voted Labour you essentially asked to be poorer with even less of a safety net.
It’s quite incredible how so many voted against their own interests.
Government Minister publicly calls other government MPs traitors and should be expelled. Only in this dysfunctional govt is this a non story. Points to how low we’ve fallen.
Roses are red Violets are blue Brexit's still going OH FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST CAN'T SOMETHING MEANINGFUL ACTUALLY HAPPEN AND WE CAN ALL MOVE ON WITH OUR LIVES.
I don't think I'm very good at poetry.
I'm not a poet, but I thought that adherence to rhyme and meter was secondary in importance to conveyance of meaning, and I think you touched on that well.
Government Minister publicly calls other government MPs traitors and should be expelled. Only in this dysfunctional govt is this a non story. Points to how low we’ve fallen.
Not far off the Blair/Brown days.
I don't remember most of those years super well, but surely it was never this bad. Various remain and leave ultras openly admit to despising one another, people surely at least pretended not to do so.
Government Minister publicly calls other government MPs traitors and should be expelled. Only in this dysfunctional govt is this a non story. Points to how low we’ve fallen.
Roses are red Violets are blue Brexit's still going OH FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST CAN'T SOMETHING MEANINGFUL ACTUALLY HAPPEN AND WE CAN ALL MOVE ON WITH OUR LIVES.
I don't think I'm very good at poetry.
I'm not a poet, but I thought that adherence to rhyme and meter was secondary in importance to conveyance of meaning, and I think you touched on that well.
Agreed. I have had more than a few epiphanies these last months, as one MP after another (on all sides or the argument) has been revealed as a total, dribbling cretin. Same goes for lots pf pundits and "experts" - again, on both sides - who've turned out to be wholly clueless. But the MPs are the worst. My daughter's new hamster would do better in government than this caravan of imbeciles, charlatans and cowards.
Deary me.
In fairness we're not seeing individual MPs constantly changing their minds, apart from the "for two pins I'd resign from my party/Cabinet" types. Pretty much everyone else is quite consistent, to the point of stubbornness.
But I wonder why we think the EU would agree to a lengthy delay in A50. What reason have they to think that we will do more than continue to go round in circles? There's a German saying, "Besser ein schreckliches Ende als ein Schreck ohne Ende" (better a horrible end than an endless horror).
Look at it the other way though: What harm is the UK doing Germany by going round in endless circles? It's not like anyone except the British are wasting time on negotiations at this point - it's basically TMay having a meeting with the Commssion once every fortnight where she demands that they reopen her deal and they tell her to piss off. Meanwhile the UK will still presumably be paying its (net positive) bills, and everybody's ignoring it in decision-making so it's not doing any damage there.
I mean, a tidy resolution would be better, but No Deal would be really bad for everyone, so given a crunch situation where the UK has failed to pass the deal and asked for a last-minute extension, wouldn't you rather they just keep driving around the roundabout instead of crashing their car into you?
The problem in the UK is there’s still deference to a push voice !
Which explains why Jeremy Corbyn can spout nonsense on a daily basis and some are still duped by it. Even more bizarre is how some poor folk have been led to believe he has their best interests at heart .
One only has to read his fathers book to see how this helped shape Corbyn's current views . If you’re poor and voted Labour you essentially asked to be poorer with even less of a safety net.
It’s quite incredible how so many voted against their own interests.
Fixed it for you
Two cheeks of the same arse,
I think Corbyns clueless but one thing and probably only thing I believe he’d do is try and make life better for the poor . On Brexit he has rubbished his own Conference Motion and has completely ignored his members. I’m a Labour supporter and it’s all very painful at the moment .
Government Minister publicly calls other government MPs traitors and should be expelled. Only in this dysfunctional govt is this a non story. Points to how low we’ve fallen.
Not far off the Blair/Brown days.
I don't remember most of those years super well, but surely it was never this bad. Various remain and leave ultras openly admit to despising one another, people surely at least pretended not to do so.
Well, in those days it was all about personality. Once you drilled down, there wasn't much difference in policy - both were hawks, both were statist, both were viciously tribal and both believed fiercely in their own superhuman brilliance, boh were fundamentally uninterested in the poor ahead of the electorate. The question therefore became whether to support a third rate snake oil salesman with an extraordinary genius for gathering votes or a violent narcissistic bully with a big brain and a still bigger ego.
And as a result, there was always a feeling matters could be smoothed over when they moved on. But at the moment both parties are brutally riven on policy. Leaving aside Macdonnell, who is scum, the others are just quite grey. Meanwhile, on the key policy issues of which Brexit is only the most visible the policy gulfs have become veritable chasms. There is nothing to suggest therefore that their departure would ease matters.
Government Minister publicly calls other government MPs traitors and should be expelled. Only in this dysfunctional govt is this a non story. Points to how low we’ve fallen.
Not far off the Blair/Brown days.
I don't remember most of those years super well, but surely it was never this bad. Various remain and leave ultras openly admit to despising one another, people surely at least pretended not to do so.
We had Corbyn/Abbott and Mandelson/Miliband in the same party. At one point Galloway too though he eventually got expelled. What do you think?
I think Corbyns clueless but one thing and probably only thing I believe he’d do is try and make life better for the poor.
Then why was his whole manifesto a series of bungs to the middle classes at the expense of the poor? Not buying that argument. What he says and what he does are two very different things.
I think Corbyns clueless but one thing and probably only thing I believe he’d do is try and make life better for the poor.
Then why was his whole manifesto a series of bungs to the middle classes at the expense of the poor? Not buying that argument. What he says and what he does are two very different things.
Government Minister publicly calls other government MPs traitors and should be expelled. Only in this dysfunctional govt is this a non story. Points to how low we’ve fallen.
Not far off the Blair/Brown days.
I don't remember most of those years super well, but surely it was never this bad. Various remain and leave ultras openly admit to despising one another, people surely at least pretended not to do so.
Well, in those days it was all about personality. Once you drilled down, there wasn't much difference in policy - both were hawks, both were statist, both were viciously tribal and both believed fiercely in their own superhuman brilliance, boh were fundamentally uninterested in the poor ahead of the electorate. The question therefore became whether to support a third rate snake oil salesman with an extraordinary genius for gathering votes or a violent narcissistic bully with a big brain and a still bigger ego.
And as a result, there was always a feeling matters could be smoothed over when they moved on. But at the moment both parties are brutally riven on policy. Leaving aside Macdonnell, who is scum, the others are just quite grey. Meanwhile, on the key policy issues of which Brexit is only the most visible the policy gulfs have become veritable chasms. There is nothing to suggest therefore that their departure would ease matters.
Government Minister publicly calls other government MPs traitors and should be expelled. Only in this dysfunctional govt is this a non story. Points to how low we’ve fallen.
Not far off the Blair/Brown days.
I don't remember most of those years super well, but surely it was never this bad. Various remain and leave ultras openly admit to despising one another, people surely at least pretended not to do so.
We had Corbyn/Abbott and Mandelson/Miliband in the same party. At one point Galloway too though he eventually got expelled. What do you think?
Were dozens repeatedly and openly spewing such contempt at one another though? One or two I can see, and a larger group really not liking others, hence why you had Corbyn and the awkward squad after all, but these Tories just seem something else - other than brief moments of residual tribal loyalty to the brand they appear to have nothing in common with one another and loathe each other's personalities, politics and principles.
Government Minister publicly calls other government MPs traitors and should be expelled. Only in this dysfunctional govt is this a non story. Points to how low we’ve fallen.
Not far off the Blair/Brown days.
I don't remember most of those years super well, but surely it was never this bad. Various remain and leave ultras openly admit to despising one another, people surely at least pretended not to do so.
Well, in those days it was all about personality. Once you drilled down, there wasn't much difference in policy - both were hawks, both were statist, both were viciously tribal and both believed fiercely in their own superhuman brilliance, boh were fundamentally uninterested in the poor ahead of the electorate. The question therefore became whether to support a third rate snake oil salesman with an extraordinary genius for gathering votes or a violent narcissistic bully with a big brain and a still bigger ego.
And as a result, there was always a feeling matters could be smoothed over when they moved on. But at the moment both parties are brutally riven on policy. Leaving aside Macdonnell, who is scum, the others are just quite grey. Meanwhile, on the key policy issues of which Brexit is only the most visible the policy gulfs have become veritable chasms. There is nothing to suggest therefore that their departure would ease matters.
Do you vote for a party ?
If there's whisky involved I'll vote to have one tomorrow
More seriously, I have voted for all four parties (counting Plaid) and a string of independents. I am usually quite happy to judge candidates on their merits, divorced from party affiliation. One of the reasons I was in such a strop two years ago is I would really have liked to vote for the Labour candidate here, but felt I couldn't because of Corbyn.
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).
Are you a member?
For now, yes.
Let's see how Brexit unfolds to see if I continue to be a member.
I am losing faith to be honest. Just look at the Labour front bench. The fact that Keir Starmer (who's not that great) is head and shoulders above any one else is a worry
If Remaining is everything to you maybe you will end up Leaving the party.
To me its a side issue compared to replacing the Tories in Government
For me as a life long member Brexit is a massive issue and I am furious with Corbyn for going down that path, against the will of the membership. I have lost faith in him but the Party is bigger than any one individual and I will continue to support it wholeheartedly.
Excepting Cardiff, every Labour constituency in Wales voted to Leave.
And?
So, it would seem Corbyn's views are in line with most Welsh voters.
E.g., in Blaenau Gwent 62 per cent voted Leave. They can't all be Tories, because there are hardly any Tories in Blaenau Gwent. They must be overwhelmingly Labour voters.
I said Labour members as you well know. Overwhelmingly members want to remain. These are the foot soldiers who do the hard graft at elections. Corbyn upsets them at his peril.
Government Minister publicly calls other government MPs traitors and should be expelled. Only in this dysfunctional govt is this a non story. Points to how low we’ve fallen.
Not far off the Blair/Brown days.
I don't remember most of those years super well, but surely it was never this bad. Various remain and leave ultras openly admit to despising one another, people surely at least pretended not to do so.
We had Corbyn/Abbott and Mandelson/Miliband in the same party. At one point Galloway too though he eventually got expelled. What do you think?
Were dozens repeatedly and openly spewing such contempt at one another though? One or two I can see, and a larger group really not liking others, hence why you had Corbyn and the awkward squad after all, but these Tories just seem something else - other than brief moments of residual tribal loyalty to the brand they appear to have nothing in common with one another and loathe each other's personalities, politics and principles.
Yes.
It wasn't just personality we had Iraq and other divisions that got pretty nasty.
About f*cking time! It depends how many he takes with him. If Labour MPs had any integrity it would be 170ish (i.e. those that have no confidence in Corbyn).
Are you a member?
For now, yes.
Let's see how Brexit unfolds to see if I continue to be a member.
I am losing faith to be honest. Just look at the Labour front bench. The fact that Keir Starmer (who's not that great) is head and shoulders above any one else is a worry
If Remaining is everything to you maybe you will end up Leaving the party.
To me its a side issue compared to replacing the Tories in Government
For me as a life long member Brexit is a massive issue and I am furious with Corbyn for going down that path, against the will of the membership. I have lost faith in him but the Party is bigger than any one individual and I will continue to support it wholeheartedly.
Labour has never been ideologically commited to the EU - or its earlier incarnations. Back in the 1970s and 1980s the party was as split on membership as the Tories appear to be today - and was by far the most Eurosceptical of the main parties. The 1983 election was fought on a commitment to leave the EEC - without a Referendum being promised. Things did change with Jacques Delors in the mid-1980s and membership increasingly began to be seen as a means of protecting workers from the excesses of Thatcherism, but it is very much an issue which excites party activists rather than the public at large.
I think Corbyns clueless but one thing and probably only thing I believe he’d do is try and make life better for the poor.
Then why was his whole manifesto a series of bungs to the middle classes at the expense of the poor? Not buying that argument. What he says and what he does are two very different things.
Promising to increase Carers allowance , was in the manifesto, I believe. A very noble cause.
Comments
Seriously?
That is the shittest of stories.
Who is responsible for this pathetic display of expectation management?
I want my money back.
Remain minister throws toys out of pram. Story? Nah.....
I would not be surprised if, having left, we applied to rejoin and the EU turned us down on the grounds that we are too stupid to understand what we are doing.
The last few weeks are giving the rest of the world the impression that our political class are utter morons who have only the barest grasp of the realities of the world around them.
Such a lot of spin and bullshit.
*iOS converted this to Farrago, which seems appropriate.
They might very well succeed now.
Who one day got locked in his garage
He campaigned so hard
But let down his guard
And fell to an electoral barrage
With a majority of just 2,000 votes in his Watford contingency I think JRM will be around a hell of a lot longer than Richard Harrington MP.
Chukka now quitting on 29th February!!!!
Where by Labour supporters you mean Rachael Swindon, Wiltshire's equivalent of Sid and Doris Bonkers.
Dear old Skwankbox. Not so much a #Chicken as a #ReverseFerret.
Who tried all our patience until
He attempted so hard
And his rhyming so jarred
That he lost everybody's goodwill.
Truly nothing has changed !
Could randomly replace half the posts with it.
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1096107756782792704
Everything will happen in the last seconds of the listing.
Which explains why JRM can spout nonsense on a daily basis and some are still duped by it. Even more bizarre is how some poor folk have been led to believe he has their best interests at heart .
One only has to read his fathers book to see how this helped shape Moggs current views . If you’re poor and voted Brexit you essentially asked to be poorer with even less of a safety net.
It’s quite incredible how so many voted against their own interests.
E.g., in Blaenau Gwent 62 per cent voted Leave. They can't all be Tories, because there are hardly any Tories in Blaenau Gwent. They must be overwhelmingly Labour voters.
But I wonder why we think the EU would agree to a lengthy delay in A50. What reason have they to think that we will do more than continue to go round in circles? There's a German saying, "Besser ein schreckliches Ende als ein Schreck ohne Ende" (better a horrible end than an endless horror).
For what it's worth, I do not expect any Tory or Labour MPs to quit their party before Brexit day.
Violets are blue
Brexit's still going
OH FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST CAN'T SOMETHING MEANINGFUL ACTUALLY HAPPEN AND WE CAN ALL MOVE ON WITH OUR LIVES.
I don't think I'm very good at poetry.
Two cheeks of the same arse,
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/430028-exclusive-biden-almost-certain-to-enter-2020-race
Not a chance that he can Chukka away....
I mean, a tidy resolution would be better, but No Deal would be really bad for everyone, so given a crunch situation where the UK has failed to pass the deal and asked for a last-minute extension, wouldn't you rather they just keep driving around the roundabout instead of crashing their car into you?
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/430072-barbara-lee-endorses-kamala-harris
And as a result, there was always a feeling matters could be smoothed over when they moved on. But at the moment both parties are brutally riven on policy. Leaving aside Macdonnell, who is scum, the others are just quite grey. Meanwhile, on the key policy issues of which Brexit is only the most visible the policy gulfs have become veritable chasms. There is nothing to suggest therefore that their departure would ease matters.
So’s Ian Dunt
May’s Deal is dead
Rees Mogg’s a very silly person
More seriously, I have voted for all four parties (counting Plaid) and a string of independents. I am usually quite happy to judge candidates on their merits, divorced from party affiliation. One of the reasons I was in such a strop two years ago is I would really have liked to vote for the Labour candidate here, but felt I couldn't because of Corbyn.
It wasn't just personality we had Iraq and other divisions that got pretty nasty.
A very noble cause.