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No-deal Brexit plans prioritise medicines over food, MPs told https://t.co/1ZNiMb5KqX
Comments
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Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend-1 -
Ooh was that a e pluribus unum.0
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So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?0
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But I need food more than medicine because I'm healthy, this is an outrage!0
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An amendment to tell herself to try to change it more like? May has said it cannot be, and I believe her.dixiedean said:
Such a good one that she is now whipping an amendment to change it...anothernick said:
Possibly. Though I think May's plan, Inasmuch as there was one, was to call an election, win a big majority and then force her version of Brexit on everyone else. And she has not changed it one iota since the election - she seems unable to grasp the simply repeating that she is right and the deal is a good one is not going to convince many people.kle4 said:
I'm half convinced that really was May's only plan, that she was blindsided by the A50 case decision making revocation so much easier a prospect (previously it could not be certain to work even if we wanted to go down that route), and has simply never come up with another stratagem.anothernick said:
No. Very hard tô see how May could engineer this - MPs will suggest Remain or delay as amendments and Bercow will allow them to be put. And delay would probably win.kle4 said:
Drama indeed. If we take people at their word, deal should win easily in such a scenario simply because far more claim to be determined to prevent no deal than deal which, despite its humongous defeat and the vast array of complaints, justified and otherwise, that people have with it, is at least palatable in parts to more of them, they are hardly going to be against the totality of it when, after all, the EU itself says it is a reasonable deal (notwithstanding that is evidence of its terribleness for some).kinabalu said:If Mrs May does manage to engineer a final at -the-death binary choice for parliament of her deal or no deal I wonder which way that would go?
Can you imagine the suspense of that division if it comes to pass. Whole country watching, giant communal screens, the lot. Wow.
Not quite sure how May would engineer it to be literally one of those two choices though.
Hey, it is almost, but not quite, progress, in that she does clearly understand that the deal, whatever its merits, is dead as it stands.
As a lifelong remainer I find it a very curious attitude indeed.AlastairMeeks said:It’s also worth noting that YouGov have had to massively weight that poll. Remainers are happy to identify themselves, Leavers, it seems, are much less keen.
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D e b a r c l e0
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Leavers prefer not to identify themselves as they prefer not to be called thick selfish racists.kle4 said:
An amendment to tell herself to try to change it more like?dixiedean said:
Such a good one that she is now whipping an amendment to change it...anothernick said:
Possibly. Though I think May's plan, Inasmuch as there was one, was to call an election, win a big majority and then force her version of Brexit on everyone else. And she has not changed it one iota since the election - she seems unable to grasp the simply repeating that she is right and the deal is a good one is not going to convince many people.kle4 said:
I'm half convinced that really was May's only plan, that she was blindsided by the A50 case decision making revocation so much easier a prospect (previously it could not be certain to work even if we wanted to go down that route), and has simply never come up with another stratagem.anothernick said:
No. Very hard tô see how May could engineer this - MPs will suggest Remain or delay as amendments and Bercow will allow them to be put. And delay would probably win.kle4 said:
Drama indeed. If we take people at their word, deal should win easily in such a scenario simply because far more claim to be determined to prevent no deal than deal which, despite its humongous defeat and the vast array of complaints, justified and otherwise, that people have with it, is at least palatable in parts to more of them, they are hardly going to be against the totality of it when, after all, the EU itself says it is a reasonable deal (notwithstanding that is evidence of its terribleness for some).kinabalu said:If Mrs May does manage to engineer a final at -the-death binary choice for parliament of her deal or no deal I wonder which way that would go?
Can you imagine the suspense of that division if it comes to pass. Whole country watching, giant communal screens, the lot. Wow.
Not quite sure how May would engineer it to be literally one of those two choices though.
Hey, it is almost, but not quite, progress, in that she does clearly understand that the deal, whatever its merits, is dead as it stands.
As a lifelong remainer I find it a very curious attitude indeed.AlastairMeeks said:It’s also worth noting that YouGov have had to massively weight that poll. Remainers are happy to identify themselves, Leavers, it seems, are much less keen.
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Evening all
Extraordinary new levels of "Project Fear" now coming from food retailers. The ever-cynical Mrs Stodge is of the view people will panic buy and be gouged by the supermarket chains who will use the opportunity to rake in the profits.
She noted the Tesco announcement on job cuts today.
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https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1089997071669751818
That's Cooper' amendment's passed then, isn't it? Making May's plans immaterial?0 -
Timing is everything. Ouch.0
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There's shy Remainers because of stuff like this from Leaverssteve_garner said:Leavers prefer not to identify themselves as they prefer not to be called thick selfish racists.
https://twitter.com/Jim_Cornelius/status/10896229731689226260 -
Fair point, except so many think we need to listen to the non expect people in a second vote, and they'll be right this time? Either we listen to the people or we don't, and if you do and you think the view has changed fine, but can one denigrate the view of the non expert will also wanting to seek that non expert opinion?Scott_P said:0 -
And they say that about the people voting to *deliver* Brexit...TheScreamingEagles said:
There's shy Remainers because of stuff like this from Leaverssteve_garner said:Leavers prefer not to identify themselves as they prefer not to be called thick selfish racists.
https://twitter.com/Jim_Cornelius/status/10896229731689226260 -
If I don't get one of my medicines I have to surrender my driving licence.0
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And so the revolution eats itself.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's shy Remainers because of stuff like this from Leaverssteve_garner said:Leavers prefer not to identify themselves as they prefer not to be called thick selfish racists.
https://twitter.com/Jim_Cornelius/status/10896229731689226260 -
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
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Indeed.williamglenn said:
And they say that about the people voting to *deliver* Brexit...TheScreamingEagles said:
There's shy Remainers because of stuff like this from Leaverssteve_garner said:Leavers prefer not to identify themselves as they prefer not to be called thick selfish racists.
https://twitter.com/Jim_Cornelius/status/1089622973168922626
Having seen the Yellow Jackets in Manchester on Saturday life is not good to be a Remainer or a person of colour.0 -
I do wonder if they regard deal supporters as worse than remainers - after all, the latter are at least open quislings.williamglenn said:
And they say that about the people voting to *deliver* Brexit...TheScreamingEagles said:
There's shy Remainers because of stuff like this from Leaverssteve_garner said:Leavers prefer not to identify themselves as they prefer not to be called thick selfish racists.
https://twitter.com/Jim_Cornelius/status/10896229731689226260 -
Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil on BBC2 now giving an insight into the backstop to the referendum, with interviews with Juncker, Tusk, Hollande etc0
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kle4 said:
As a lifelong remainer I find it a very curious attitude indeed.AlastairMeeks said:It’s also worth noting that YouGov have had to massively weight that poll. Remainers are happy to identify themselves, Leavers, it seems, are much less keen.
kle4 said:
As a lifelong remainer I find it a very curious attitude indeed.AlastairMeeks said:It’s also worth noting that YouGov have had to massively weight that poll. Remainers are happy to identify themselves, Leavers, it seems, are much less keen.
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Or else they shop at Tesco and Morrisons which as far as I know didn't sign the letter._Anazina_ said:
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
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*cough*_Anazina_ said:kle4 said:
As a lifelong remainer I find it a very curious attitude indeed.AlastairMeeks said:It’s also worth noting that YouGov have had to massively weight that poll. Remainers are happy to identify themselves, Leavers, it seems, are much less keen.
kle4 said:
As a lifelong remainer I find it a very curious attitude indeed.AlastairMeeks said:It’s also worth noting that YouGov have had to massively weight that poll. Remainers are happy to identify themselves, Leavers, it seems, are much less keen.
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Tbf once the malnourishment kicks in, you will need the medicine.kle4 said:But I need food more than medicine because I'm healthy, this is an outrage!
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It sounded pathetic then, and it ain't got any better a few hours later._Anazina_ said:
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
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Cameron really screwed up.0
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A spoonful of sugar will help the 3medicine go downkle4 said:But I need food more than medicine because I'm healthy, this is an outrage!
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You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend0 -
To be fair, there won't be much else to eat.kle4 said:
And so the revolution eats itself.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's shy Remainers because of stuff like this from Leaverssteve_garner said:Leavers prefer not to identify themselves as they prefer not to be called thick selfish racists.
https://twitter.com/Jim_Cornelius/status/10896229731689226260 -
FPT:
I can't make any sense of those poll results and the reluctance of politicians to kill off the Brexit madness. Why are we doing this to ourselves?AlastairMeeks said:This is going swimmingly:
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/3vq4kkd53t/5News_BrexitMentalHealth_190118_w.pdf
By 24:44 people think Brexit will make life worse, by 32:3 they think it has already made life worse. Not a single Remain voter from 2016 feels happy about Brexit.0 -
https://twitter.com/Hippychick3000/status/1089956903768244225_Anazina_ said:
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
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I shouldn't have lost all that weight last year, I needed those fat reserves to burn. That's on me for thinking after much noise and fury something broadly acceptable would be agreed.Theuniondivvie said:
Tbf once the malnourishment kicks in, you will need the medicine.kle4 said:But I need food more than medicine because I'm healthy, this is an outrage!
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It's brilliant.HYUFD said:Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil on BBC2 now giving an insight into the backstop to the referendum, with interviews with Juncker, Tusk, Hollande etc
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“The more there’s panic over no deal the more individual MPs will focus on how they cast their votes“
Isn’t May’s project fear making some angry at another project fear, whilst demonising all forms of brexit to some degree?0 -
Quite. The trick is to stop Brexit, while passing the buck.kle4 said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1089997071669751818
That's Cooper' amendment's passed then, isn't it? Making May's plans immaterial?0 -
MPs clearly want to stop it. They have the power to stop it. But not enough for enough of them to go against the party line or to risk ending their careers.OblitusSumMe said:I can't make any sense of those poll results and the reluctance of politicians to kill off the Brexit madness. Why are we doing this to ourselves?
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We saw what happened with KFC. It will be pandemonium, but the public seem unable to anticipate this happening. If this is allowed to happen the panic and anger will be swift and strong.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
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If MPs want to do that then they need to face the music.Sean_F said:
Quite. The trick is to stop Brexit, while passing the buck.kle4 said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1089997071669751818
That's Cooper' amendment's passed then, isn't it? Making May's plans immaterial?0 -
In my view, we are heading to no deal.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend0 -
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We exit in March, that's the law.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
If you look at the rhetoric coming from some Leavers, similar to that which Thomas Mair used, you can understand why some MPs won't revoke Article 50.-1 -
Not necessarily - there's quite a few Labour MPs (Caroline Flint being one) who have said they won't be voting for it, and all the Tory MPs who spent weeks talking about how they were committed to avoiding No Deal are (predictably) bottling out of actually following through when it matters.kle4 said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1089997071669751818
That's Cooper' amendment's passed then, isn't it? Making May's plans immaterial?
But it will be amusing to see the mental gymnastics Southam Observer goes through to blame Corbyn for No Deal when he's the one who voted to prevent it happening, but the House of Commons as a whole said otherwise.0 -
Laugh or cry - flip a coin.nielh said:
In my view, we are heading to no deal.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
Thank God for the competence of our lawmakers! 2 months from B-day and everything is sorted. Oh, wait...0 -
FPT, those yougov numbers aren’t impressive but I suspect the total numbers of those who think it isn’t going well/won’t make their lives better are made up of people who believe that for very different reasons.0
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They all want someone else to do the dirty work of stopping/passing Brexit so that they can benefit from the backlash to whatever happens. But they're not in politics to win elections - they're there to make a difference, and what bigger difference can they make but on Brexit?kle4 said:
MPs clearly want to stop it. They have the power to stop it. But not enough for enough of them to go against the party line or to risk ending their careers.OblitusSumMe said:I can't make any sense of those poll results and the reluctance of politicians to kill off the Brexit madness. Why are we doing this to ourselves?
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An all to rare genuine LOL on PB. Bravo sir!kle4 said:
*cough*_Anazina_ said:kle4 said:
As a lifelong remainer I find it a very curious attitude indeed.AlastairMeeks said:It’s also worth noting that YouGov have had to massively weight that poll. Remainers are happy to identify themselves, Leavers, it seems, are much less keen.
kle4 said:
As a lifelong remainer I find it a very curious attitude indeed.AlastairMeeks said:It’s also worth noting that YouGov have had to massively weight that poll. Remainers are happy to identify themselves, Leavers, it seems, are much less keen.
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I certainly know who I’m going to be blaming for no Brexit, if that’s what transpires.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
I won’t deliver a leaflet ever again for any of the ERG responsible.-1 -
Laws are malleable.TheScreamingEagles said:
We exit in March, that's the law.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
If you look at the rhetoric coming from some Leavers, similar to that which Thomas Mair used, you can understand why some MPs won't revoke Article 50.
First, kick the can down the road, then say it's all too difficult.0 -
twistedfirestopper3 said:
It sounded pathetic then, and it ain't got any better a few hours later._Anazina_ said:
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
😆Dadge said:
https://twitter.com/Hippychick3000/status/1089956903768244225_Anazina_ said:
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
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In fairness there are more of them taking stands of some kind against their parties on this, for and against Brexit, then on most issues. But with May paralysed and Corbyn with a fencepole to straddle, the rest need to not only get creative, as several have, they need to be even bolder to force the hands of their useless leaderships. Cooper seems to be winning that game at present.OblitusSumMe said:
They all want someone else to do the dirty work of stopping/passing Brexit so that they can benefit from the backlash to whatever happens. But they're not in politics to win elections - they're there to make a difference, and what bigger difference can they make but on Brexit?kle4 said:
MPs clearly want to stop it. They have the power to stop it. But not enough for enough of them to go against the party line or to risk ending their careers.OblitusSumMe said:I can't make any sense of those poll results and the reluctance of politicians to kill off the Brexit madness. Why are we doing this to ourselves?
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That's OK Mike - there won't be any petrol either.MikeSmithson said:If I don't get one of my medicines I have to surrender my driving licence.
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No lettuce will make the Big Macs less interesting though.Dadge said:
https://twitter.com/Hippychick3000/status/1089956903768244225_Anazina_ said:
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
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twistedfirestopper3 said:
It sounded pathetic then, and it ain't got any better a few hours later._Anazina_ said:
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
An apple a day keeps the doctor away!0 -
Amazing now to think of the years & years of the PB Tories defending every particle of his being (I seem to recall at one point Plato (RIP) said she'd marry him in a flash). Fair play to those still loyal.Jonathan said:Cameron really screwed up.
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Tossers on Twitter don't count._Anazina_ said:twistedfirestopper3 said:
It sounded pathetic then, and it ain't got any better a few hours later._Anazina_ said:
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
😆Dadge said:
https://twitter.com/Hippychick3000/status/1089956903768244225_Anazina_ said:
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
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I'm still loyal.Theuniondivvie said:
Amazing now to think of the years & years of the PB Tories defending every particle of his being (I seem to recall at one point Plato (RIP) said she'd marry him in a flash). Fair play to those still loyal.Jonathan said:Cameron really screwed up.
When I was told he was about to resign, it still feels like a kick in the gonads.0 -
Oi!, I have to make a living!_Anazina_ said:twistedfirestopper3 said:
It sounded pathetic then, and it ain't got any better a few hours later._Anazina_ said:
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
An apple a day keeps the doctor away!0 -
Also, to add to this: even if Cooper's amendment passes, May's efforts wouldn't be immaterial, would they? I thought it was that A50 gets extended if there's no deal ratified by the end of Feb - so, if by some miracle May does manage to magically renegotiate her deal and MPs vote it through, then Cooper's amendment becomes obsolete.Danny565 said:
Not necessarily - there's quite a few Labour MPs (Caroline Flint being one) who have said they won't be voting for it, and all the Tory MPs who spent weeks talking about how they were committed to avoiding No Deal are (predictably) bottling out of actually following through when it matters.kle4 said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1089997071669751818
That's Cooper' amendment's passed then, isn't it? Making May's plans immaterial?
But it will be amusing to see the mental gymnastics Southam Observer goes through to blame Corbyn for No Deal when he's the one who voted to prevent it happening, but the House of Commons as a whole said otherwise.0 -
The funny thing is I haven’t been convinced by a single argument of the EUphiles or passionate ultra-Remainers. Not once.Sean_F said:
Laws are malleable.TheScreamingEagles said:
We exit in March, that's the law.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
If you look at the rhetoric coming from some Leavers, similar to that which Thomas Mair used, you can understand why some MPs won't revoke Article 50.
First, kick the can down the road, then say it's all too difficult.
The only ones who’ve made me question the wisdom of my original decision have been the absolute idiots on my own side.
I assumed they’d all pragmatically coalesce around an acceptable compromise that put Britain on a different future political path but, unlike Gove, Geoffrey Cox and a small number of others, they seem incapable of any rational or strategic thinking on this.0 -
He was a fool and incompetent. Believed his own hype. Should have listened to Osborne.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm still loyal.Theuniondivvie said:
Amazing now to think of the years & years of the PB Tories defending every particle of his being (I seem to recall at one point Plato (RIP) said she'd marry him in a flash). Fair play to those still loyal.Jonathan said:Cameron really screwed up.
When I was told he was about to resign, it still feels like a kick in the gonads.0 -
Or cars...SandyRentool said:
That's OK Mike - there won't be any petrol either.MikeSmithson said:If I don't get one of my medicines I have to surrender my driving licence.
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The Labour leadership has blinked twice in less than 12 hours - on the Immigration bill and on the Cooper amendment. That is highly significant and indicates it is not as secure as many of us had asdumed.0
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I thought Cameron was supposed to be good at this politics shit?0
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They wore me down in the end too. I still don't see many good arguments on the remain or second vote sides, but the shambles on the other side have overcome that.Casino_Royale said:
The funny thing is I haven’t been convinced by a single argument of the EUphiles or passionate ultra-Remainers. Not once.Sean_F said:
Laws are malleable.TheScreamingEagles said:
We exit in March, that's the law.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
If you look at the rhetoric coming from some Leavers, similar to that which Thomas Mair used, you can understand why some MPs won't revoke Article 50.
First, kick the can down the road, then say it's all too difficult.
The only ones who’ve made me question the wisdom of my original decision have been the absolute idiots on my own side.
I assumed they’d all pragmatically coalesce around an acceptable compromise that put Britain on a different future political path but, unlike Gove, Geoffrey Cox and a small number of others, they seem incapable of any rational or strategic thinking on this.0 -
Me too. I always had a personal and political empathy with Cameron, and still do.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm still loyal.Theuniondivvie said:
Amazing now to think of the years & years of the PB Tories defending every particle of his being (I seem to recall at one point Plato (RIP) said she'd marry him in a flash). Fair play to those still loyal.Jonathan said:Cameron really screwed up.
When I was told he was about to resign, it still feels like a kick in the gonads.
I was just very disappointed he didn’t follow through on his European policy.0 -
He is, but like Julius Caesar, he was betrayed by those loyal to him.twistedfirestopper3 said:I thought Cameron was supposed to be good at this politics shit?
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Lock him up.Scott_P said:0 -
Well sure, but as you suggest that seems like it needs magic to happen. Ok, maybe, maybe some of the ERG finally toe the line as they see the delay as remain by any other name and accept the deal, negotiated or otherwise, as their only hope (but they've been remarkably steadfast to date), but what about the second vote supporters, the norway backers, etc etc, what reason do they have to see a deal agreed. A delay presumably opens up any number of options again.Danny565 said:
Also, to add to this: even if Cooper's amendment passes, May's efforts wouldn't be immaterial, would they? I thought it was that A50 gets extended if there's no deal ratified by the end of Feb - so, if by some miracle May does manage to magically renegotiate her deal and MPs vote it through, then Cooper's amendment becomes obsolete.Danny565 said:
Not necessarily - there's quite a few Labour MPs (Caroline Flint being one) who have said they won't be voting for it, and all the Tory MPs who spent weeks talking about how they were committed to avoiding No Deal are (predictably) bottling out of actually following through when it matters.kle4 said:https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1089997071669751818
That's Cooper' amendment's passed then, isn't it? Making May's plans immaterial?
But it will be amusing to see the mental gymnastics Southam Observer goes through to blame Corbyn for No Deal when he's the one who voted to prevent it happening, but the House of Commons as a whole said otherwise.0 -
Not being of that grouping, I was never much of a fan of Chameleon. Yet it is striking how, compared to the collection of moondogs, third-rate clowns, quarterwits and genital-heads currently populating the Tory front bench, he seems positively statesmanlike.Theuniondivvie said:
Amazing now to think of the years & years of the PB Tories defending every particle of his being (I seem to recall at one point Plato (RIP) said she'd marry him in a flash). Fair play to those still loyal.Jonathan said:Cameron really screwed up.
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There is nothing good in Remain. Nothing.kle4 said:
They wore me down in the end too. I still don't see many good arguments on the remain or second vote sides, but the shambles on the other side have overcome that.Casino_Royale said:
The funny thing is I haven’t been convinced by a single argument of the EUphiles or passionate ultra-Remainers. Not once.Sean_F said:
Laws are malleable.TheScreamingEagles said:
We exit in March, that's the law.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
If you look at the rhetoric coming from some Leavers, similar to that which Thomas Mair used, you can understand why some MPs won't revoke Article 50.
First, kick the can down the road, then say it's all too difficult.
The only ones who’ve made me question the wisdom of my original decision have been the absolute idiots on my own side.
I assumed they’d all pragmatically coalesce around an acceptable compromise that put Britain on a different future political path but, unlike Gove, Geoffrey Cox and a small number of others, they seem incapable of any rational or strategic thinking on this.
The EU has learnt zilch from this, and will view any reverse ferret as having successfully made its point. If we stay, we will be sucked into a European army and QMV on European taxes, just with even less influence than we had before and we’ll never taken seriously again in vetoes, votes or discussions on policy.
I will never vote to Remain or Re-join. Ever. I’m just saying my contempt is now more equally shared.0 -
-
When the Gods come together to discuss the characteristics that Leavers possess, "reluctance to tell you about it" is rarely mentioned.steve_garner said:
Leavers prefer not to identify themselves as they prefer not to be called thick selfish racists.kle4 said:
An amendment to tell herself to try to change it more like?dixiedean said:
Such a good one that she is now whipping an amendment to change it...anothernick said:
Possibly. Though I think May's plan, Inasmuch as there was one, was to call an election, win a big majority and then force her version of Brexit on everyone else. And she has not changed it one iota since the election - she seems unable to grasp the simply repeating that she is right and the deal is a good one is not going to convince many people.kle4 said:
I'm half convinced that really was May's only plan, that she was blindsided by the A50 case decision making revocation so much easier a prospect (previously it could not be certain to work even if we wanted to go down that route), and has simply never come up with another stratagem.anothernick said:
No. Very hard tô see how May could engineer this - MPs will suggest Remain or delay as amendments and Bercow will allow them to be put. And delay would probably win.kle4 said:
Drama indeed. If we take people at their word, deal should win easily in such a scenario simply because far more claim to be determined to prevent no deal than deal which, despite its humongous defeat and the vast array of complaints, justified and otherwise, that people have with it, is at least palatable in parts to more of them, they are hardly going to be against the totality of it when, after all, the EU itself says it is a reasonable deal (notwithstanding that is evidence of its terribleness for some).kinabalu said:If Mrs May does manage to engineer a final at -the-death binary choice for parliament of her deal or no deal I wonder which way that would go?
Can you imagine the suspense of that division if it comes to pass. Whole country watching, giant communal screens, the lot. Wow.
Not quite sure how May would engineer it to be literally one of those two choices though.
Hey, it is almost, but not quite, progress, in that she does clearly understand that the deal, whatever its merits, is dead as it stands.
As a lifelong remainer I find it a very curious attitude indeed.AlastairMeeks said:It’s also worth noting that YouGov have had to massively weight that poll. Remainers are happy to identify themselves, Leavers, it seems, are much less keen.
0 -
We’ll be lucky to have any roads.Foxy said:
Or cars...SandyRentool said:
That's OK Mike - there won't be any petrol either.MikeSmithson said:If I don't get one of my medicines I have to surrender my driving licence.
0 -
I still don't really understand why Labour doesn't simply abstain on the MV, allow the WA deal through, see the DUP turn puce and end the C&S agreement, and back themselves to force an election, win it and put through whatever long-term future arrangement with the EU they see fit.kle4 said:
MPs clearly want to stop it. They have the power to stop it. But not enough for enough of them to go against the party line or to risk ending their careers.OblitusSumMe said:I can't make any sense of those poll results and the reluctance of politicians to kill off the Brexit madness. Why are we doing this to ourselves?
0 -
I'm waiting for the outcome of tomorrow's amendments before I decide.nielh said:
In my view, we are heading to no deal.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend0 -
That's fair enough, I'm just a step further down the road than you are, even if you progress no further down it.Casino_Royale said:
There is nothing good in Remain. Nothing.kle4 said:
They wore me down in the end too. I still don't see many good arguments on the remain or second vote sides, but the shambles on the other side have overcome that.Casino_Royale said:
The funny thing is I haven’t been convinced by a single argument of the EUphiles or passiorategic thinking on this.Sean_F said:
Laws are malleable.TheScreamingEagles said:
We exit in March, that's the law.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
If you look at the rhetoric coming from some Leavers, similar to that which Thomas Mair used, you can understand why some MPs won't revoke Article 50.
First, kick the can down the road, then say it's all too difficult.
The EU has learnt zilch from this, and will view any reverse ferret as having successfully made its point. If we stay, we will be sucked into a European army and QMV on European taxes, just with even less influence than we had before and we’ll never taken seriously again in vetoes, votes or discussions on policy.
I will never vote to Remain or Re-join. Ever. I’m just saying my contempt is now more equally shared.
Fear. It might work, or they might face that rarest of events, a genuine and sudden backlash for having enable Brexit (even though some kind of Brexit was always their policy).Drutt said:
I still don't really understand why Labour doesn't simply abstain on the MV, allow the WA deal through, see the DUP turn puce and end the C&S agreement, and back themselves to force an election, win it and put through whatever long-term future arrangement with the EU they see fit.kle4 said:
MPs clearly want to stop it. They have the power to stop it. But not enough for enough of them to go against the party line or to risk ending their careers.OblitusSumMe said:I can't make any sense of those poll results and the reluctance of politicians to kill off the Brexit madness. Why are we doing this to ourselves?
And in fairness abstaining on the most critical issue of our time is not an easy thing to defend for a party leader.0 -
Bet if you'd handed Cesar a knife he would have stabbed back though.TheScreamingEagles said:
He is, but like Julius Caesar, he was betrayed by those loyal to him.twistedfirestopper3 said:I thought Cameron was supposed to be good at this politics shit?
No blue on blue by Cameron was the most craven party before country shit I have seen from a politician.0 -
I make it a 70/80 per cent chance we leave with No Deal.viewcode said:
I'm waiting for the outcome of tomorrow's amendments before I decide.nielh said:
In my view, we are heading to no deal.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend0 -
They can perhaps be split into five groups:Casino_Royale said:
The funny thing is I haven’t been convinced by a single argument of the EUphiles or passionate ultra-Remainers. Not once.Sean_F said:
Laws are malleable.TheScreamingEagles said:
We exit in March, that's the law.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
If you look at the rhetoric coming from some Leavers, similar to that which Thomas Mair used, you can understand why some MPs won't revoke Article 50.
First, kick the can down the road, then say it's all too difficult.
The only ones who’ve made me question the wisdom of my original decision have been the absolute idiots on my own side.
I assumed they’d all pragmatically coalesce around an acceptable compromise that put Britain on a different future political path but, unlike Gove, Geoffrey Cox and a small number of others, they seem incapable of any rational or strategic thinking on this.
1) The Death Cult Leavers who don't want any agreement with the EU
2) The Libertarian Pirate Island Leavers who want their small government fantasy
3) The posturing arseholes who want to complain but take no responsibility
4) The ambitious arseholes who think it boosts their career plans
5) Useful idiots of one or more of the above
To sum up the Conservative party is not fit for purpose.0 -
Because it would lose them millions of votes in an instant, mean massive resignations from the Party and guarantee they would not only lose the next GE but many more after that.Drutt said:
I still don't really understand why Labour doesn't simply abstain on the MV, allow the WA deal through, see the DUP turn puce and end the C&S agreement, and back themselves to force an election, win it and put through whatever long-term future arrangement with the EU they see fit.kle4 said:
MPs clearly want to stop it. They have the power to stop it. But not enough for enough of them to go against the party line or to risk ending their careers.OblitusSumMe said:I can't make any sense of those poll results and the reluctance of politicians to kill off the Brexit madness. Why are we doing this to ourselves?
0 -
5 Borisanother_richard said:
They can perhaps be split into five groups:Casino_Royale said:
The funny thing is I haven’t been convinced by a single argument of the EUphiles or passionate ultra-Remainers. Not once.Sean_F said:
Laws are malleable.TheScreamingEagles said:
We exit in March, that's the law.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
If you look at the rhetoric coming from some Leavers, similar to that which Thomas Mair used, you can understand why some MPs won't revoke Article 50.
First, kick the can down the road, then say it's all too difficult.
The only ones who’ve made me question the wisdom of my original decision have been the absolute idiots on my own side.
I assumed they’d all pragmatically coalesce around an acceptable compromise that put Britain on a different future political path but, unlike Gove, Geoffrey Cox and a small number of others, they seem incapable of any rational or strategic thinking on this.
1) The Death Cult Leavers who don't want any agreement with the EU
2) The Libertarian Pirate Island Leavers who want their small government fantasy
3) The posturing arseholes who want to complain but take no responsibility
4) The ambitious arseholes who think it boosts their career plans
5) Useful idiots of one or more of the above
To sum up the Conservative party is not fit for purpose.0 -
Roads.....? Luxury!!!_Anazina_ said:
We’ll be lucky to have any roads.Foxy said:
Or cars...SandyRentool said:
That's OK Mike - there won't be any petrol either.MikeSmithson said:If I don't get one of my medicines I have to surrender my driving licence.
0 -
Indeed.another_richard said:
They can perhaps be split into five groups:Casino_Royale said:
The funny thing is I haven’t been convinced by a single argument of the EUphiles or passionate ultra-Remainers. Not once.Sean_F said:
Laws are malleable.TheScreamingEagles said:
We exit in March, that's the law.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
If you look at the rhetoric coming from some Leavers, similar to that which Thomas Mair used, you can understand why some MPs won't revoke Article 50.
First, kick the can down the road, then say it's all too difficult.
The only ones who’ve made me question the wisdom of my original decision have been the absolute idiots on my own side.
I assumed they’d all pragmatically coalesce around an acceptable compromise that put Britain on a different future political path but, unlike Gove, Geoffrey Cox and a small number of others, they seem incapable of any rational or strategic thinking on this.
1) The Death Cult Leavers who don't want any agreement with the EU
2) The Libertarian Pirate Island Leavers who want their small government fantasy
3) The posturing arseholes who want to complain but take no responsibility
4) The ambitious arseholes who think it boosts their career plans
5) Useful idiots of one or more of the above
To sum up the Conservative party is not fit for purpose.
The only thing keeping me in the Tory party is that I'll have a vote in the next leadership election and my vote could help the party return to sanity.
If I wanted to fuck the economy I would have joined the Labour party.0 -
+1 I find it staggering that Labour's leadership haven't cottoned on to this yet.Drutt said:
I still don't really understand why Labour doesn't simply abstain on the MV, allow the WA deal through, see the DUP turn puce and end the C&S agreement, and back themselves to force an election, win it and put through whatever long-term future arrangement with the EU they see fit.kle4 said:
MPs clearly want to stop it. They have the power to stop it. But not enough for enough of them to go against the party line or to risk ending their careers.OblitusSumMe said:I can't make any sense of those poll results and the reluctance of politicians to kill off the Brexit madness. Why are we doing this to ourselves?
0 -
Both sides are as obsessed with WWII and as ideologically dogmatic as each other.kle4 said:
That's fair enough, I'm just a step further down the road than you are, even if you progress no further down it.Casino_Royale said:
There is nothing good in Remain. Nothing.kle4 said:
They wore me down in the end too. I still don't see many good arguments on the remain or second vote sides, but the shambles on the other side have overcome that.Casino_Royale said:
The funny thing is I haven’t been convinced by a single argument of the EUphiles or passiorategic thinking on this.Sean_F said:
Laws are malleable.TheScreamingEagles said:
We exit in March, that's the law.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
If you look at the rhetoric coming from some Leavers, similar to that which Thomas Mair used, you can understand why some MPs won't revoke Article 50.
First, kick the can down the road, then say it's all too difficult.
The EU has learnt zilch from this, and will view any reverse ferret as having successfully made its point. If we stay, we will be sucked into a European army and QMV on European taxes, just with even less influence than we had before and we’ll never taken seriously again in vetoes, votes or discussions on policy.
I will never vote to Remain or Re-join. Ever. I’m just saying my contempt is now more equally shared.
Fear. It might work, or they might face that rarest of events, a genuine and sudden backlash for having enable Brexit (even though some kind of Brexit was always their policy).Drutt said:
Ikle4 said:
MPs clearly want to stop it. They have the power to stop it. But not enough for enough of them to go against the party line or to risk ending their careers.OblitusSumMe said:I can't make any sense of those poll results and the reluctance of politicians to kill off the Brexit madness. Why are we doing this to ourselves?
And in fairness abstaining on the most critical issue of our time is not an easy thing to defend for a party leader.
That’s, like, the whole fucking problem here. If it wasn’t, we’d have become an associate member long ago and we could have all got on with our lives.0 -
Good grief. There is no arguing with those numbers. Polls are to be taken with a large pinch of salt. But those are very large gaps.Scott_P said:0 -
That'll be the hearing distortion caused by Vitamin D deficiency. Eat more cheese...twistedfirestopper3 said:
It sounded pathetic then, and it ain't got any better a few hours later._Anazina_ said:
I speculated earlier that as most Leavers don’t eat fruit and vegetables, the warnings earlier today about major greengrocery shortages won’t have spooked them.AlastairMeeks said:So far the public is depressed but phlegmatic. Will it change if it looks like they won’t be able to get a Big Mac post deal?
0 -
Being rather optimistic that one of the options you will be presented with will be a sane one.TheScreamingEagles said:
The only thing keeping me in the Tory party is that I'll have a vote in the next leadership election and my vote could help the party return to sanity.another_richard said:
They can perhaps be split into five groups:Casino_Royale said:
The funny thing is I haven’t been convinced by a single argument of the EUphiles or passionate ultra-Remainers. Not once.Sean_F said:
Laws are malleable.TheScreamingEagles said:
We exit in March, that's the law.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
If you look at the rhetoric coming from some Leavers, similar to that which Thomas Mair used, you can understand why some MPs won't revoke Article 50.
First, kick the can down the road, then say it's all too difficult.
The only ones who’ve made me question the wisdom of my original decision have been the absolute idiots on my own side.
I assumed they’d all pragmatically coalesce around an acceptable compromise that put Britain on a different future political path but, unlike Gove, Geoffrey Cox and a small number of others, they seem incapable of any rational or strategic thinking on this.
1) The Death Cult Leavers who don't want any agreement with the EU
2) The Libertarian Pirate Island Leavers who want their small government fantasy
3) The posturing arseholes who want to complain but take no responsibility
4) The ambitious arseholes who think it boosts their career plans
5) Useful idiots of one or more of the above
To sum up the Conservative party is not fit for purpose.
Edit: Seems like the best case scenario is an utterly fanatical no dealer or completely unprincipled person like Boris vs a cowardfly slippery snake like, say, Hunt.
0 -
Out of interest have you got big money on No Deal ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I make it a 70/80 per cent chance we leave with No Deal.viewcode said:
I'm waiting for the outcome of tomorrow's amendments before I decide.nielh said:
In my view, we are heading to no deal.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
Its very good odds if you think its a 75% chance and likely a useful financial hedge.0 -
Am on team Rory.kle4 said:Being rather optimistic that one of the options you will be presented with will be a sane one.
0 -
Au contraire, I consider Michael Gove a hero.TheScreamingEagles said:
And he saved us from Boris months before lots of people had worked out what he’s really like.0 -
The man who doesn't even get a promotion to Cabinet when he's about the only one out there arguing for the deal with the same energy and fervour as the PM?TheScreamingEagles said:
Am on team Rory.kle4 said:Being rather optimistic that one of the options you will be presented with will be a sane one.
0 -
A fair bit.another_richard said:
Out of interest have you got big money on No Deal ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I make it a 70/80 per cent chance we leave with No Deal.viewcode said:
I'm waiting for the outcome of tomorrow's amendments before I decide.nielh said:
In my view, we are heading to no deal.Sean_F said:
You need not worry. The brainlessness of the ERG makes it very likely that Brexit won't happenTheScreamingEagles said:Meds and food should be prioritised for Remainers.
Leavers can go whistle, this shall be their Brexit dividend
Its very good odds if you think its a 75% chance and likely a useful financial hedge.
We have fewer than 60 days, and even fewer Parliamentary sitting days to repeal/amend the EU Withdrawal Act which mandates our exit in March.
We've simply run out of time.0 -
It’s the obvious move.Benpointer said:
+1 I find it staggering that Labour's leadership haven't cottoned on to this yet.Drutt said:
I still don't really understand why Labour doesn't simply abstain on the MV, allow the WA deal through, see the DUP turn puce and end the C&S agreement, and back themselves to force an election, win it and put through whatever long-term future arrangement with the EU they see fit.kle4 said:
MPs clearly want to stop it. They have the power to stop it. But not enough for enough of them to go against the party line or to risk ending their careers.OblitusSumMe said:I can't make any sense of those poll results and the reluctance of politicians to kill off the Brexit madness. Why are we doing this to ourselves?
0 -
Is it enough to make you sick?kle4 said:But I need food more than medicine because I'm healthy, this is an outrage!
0
