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Beverley_C said:

david_herdson said:

Beverley_C said:

Black_Rook said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1086250866603159552

What, if anything, to make of this?

The suggestion is that nine Government ministers have told their associations to prepare for a GE. Four of them named February 28th as the date, according to this report.

If May's plan B is to request a dissolution on Monday then a two-thirds majority in Parliament does away with the need for the fourteen days' pantomime, meaning that February 28th is doable.

Another complete and utter waste of time. It solves nothing and distracts from the issue of the day. It is no different from postponing the Meaningless Vote for a month.

I think you'd see a major Tory revolt at that. The Party is so split on Brexit that it'd be impossible to enforce any kind of discipline and any attempt to enforce May's line would provoke immense hostility towards the leadership from the members because it would mean either purging the candidates list of any opposed to the WA and/or imposing candidates on constituencies. Either way, there might not be enough people left on the candidates list. Such authoritarian procedures might well not be approved by the Party Board and even if they were, you'd be effectively expelling 60+ MPs and inviting them to form their own party under the leadership of, say, Boris. What could possibly go wrong from there?

So - short version - not only is it pointless and futile, but it verges on insane to even attempt it?

I wonder what the manifesto will be?

Benpointer said:

Beverley_C said:

Black_Rook said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1086250866603159552

What, if anything, to make of this?

The suggestion is that nine Government ministers have told their associations to prepare for a GE. Four of them named February 28th as the date, according to this report.

If May's plan B is to request a dissolution on Monday then a two-thirds majority in Parliament does away with the need for the fourteen days' pantomime, meaning that February 28th is doable.

Another complete and utter waste of time. It solves nothing and distracts from the issue of the day. It is no different from postponing the Meaningless Vote for a month.

Better than the inexorable deadlocked slide towards the Brexit cliff edge imo.

But what would the Tory Manifesto offer? If it's May's Deal how would the ERG campaign?

Sean_F said:

Anazina said:

Sean_F said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

anothernick said:

FF43 said:

Nemtynakht said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Scott_P said:

the only way this could be better is if it was EU law...

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1086214081013575680

Well I suppose if you aren't bothered about things like truth and facts then trifles like copyright law can be dismissed at will.

Wetherspoons has a magazine?

God, yes. Along with the manager and staff of the Elmer Chickenshit pub taking part in a worthy fun run for charity it is pages and pages of full scale Brexit paranoia. The other day I was stuck at the airport as the weather closed in with nothing to entertain me except Wetherspoon's Mein Kampf levels of hatred against the elites and how they were betraying the people of Britain.

The elites that own chains of pubs are an exception of course.

Hardly elite pubs. though. I made the mistake of going to one once and ordering some food. It's not a mistake I shall ever make again.

The Wetherspoons in Spennymoor is outstandingly good value.

None of them are particularly good value. You pay low prices, for absolutely bloody awful food.

Pubs are generally better up North than they are in the South, and this one is no exception.

david_herdson said:

Beverley_C said:

Black_Rook said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1086250866603159552

What, if anything, to make of this?

The suggestion is that nine Government ministers have told their associations to prepare for a GE. Four of them named February 28th as the date, according to this report.

If May's plan B is to request a dissolution on Monday then a two-thirds majority in Parliament does away with the need for the fourteen days' pantomime, meaning that February 28th is doable.

Another complete and utter waste of time. It solves nothing and distracts from the issue of the day. It is no different from postponing the Meaningless Vote for a month.

I think you'd see a major Tory revolt at that. The Party is so split on Brexit that it'd be impossible to enforce any kind of discipline and any attempt to enforce May's line would provoke immense hostility towards the leadership from the members because it would mean either purging the candidates list of any opposed to the WA and/or imposing candidates on constituencies. Either way, there might not be enough people left on the candidates list. Such authoritarian procedures might well not be approved by the Party Board and even if they were, you'd be effectively expelling 60+ MPs and inviting them to form their own party under the leadership of, say, Boris. What could possibly go wrong from there?

Beverley_C said:

Nigelb said:

Beverley_C said:

anothernick said:

Beverley_C said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Anecdote warning with all usual caveats.

I spoke to someone yesterday and at the end of the meeting we got into a general chat and into the subject of Brexit. He said he was Remain 2 years ago (he mentioned that to me at the time two years ago too) but that Britain made a choice and we need to follow through with it. He blames the politicians for the impasse at the moment and not honouring the public's wishes. Says we just need to get on with it now and if there was another vote he would now vote Leave.

You are right, anecdotal and, therefore meaningless

In fairness though, Nigel, it is an argument and one I have some sympathy with - a sort of 'lay in the bed you've made' line of thought. Brexit may be a disaster but we would get over it in time and if it made people a bit more careful about what they voted for, and a bit more aware of the importance of political choices, would that be such a bad thing.

The counter-arguments are plenty of course, but I wouldn't be dismissive of Philip's line. It's certainly far more reasonable than some of the nonsense that was trotted out at the referendum.

I have reached the point where I believe No-Deal Brexit has to happen and, regretfully, it needs to be an utter shambles. Our system needs a severe shock to clean out decades of political deadwood.

I have some sympathy with that view though I think Parliament will not let it happen. More likely there will be last-minute screeching u-turn through either extension or revokation of A50.

What happens happens. I am too dazed by the utter stupidity on display to care any more...

But what makes you think it won't just be continuing utter stupidity after we No Deal Brexit ?

The rest of the world and WTO barriers. There is nothing like a massive inflationary spike to concentrate minds and the JAMs will not be JAMing and the Unions will be in bolshy mood.

If we have to queue for basics, Soviet Union style - even for as little as a week - do you think any government would survive that or be considered re-electable within living memory.

It is the Tories problem. They created this shambles.

TOPPING said:

Benpointer said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

anothernick said:

FF43 said:

Nemtynakht said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Scott_P said:

the only way this could be better is if it was EU law...

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1086214081013575680

Well I suppose if you aren't bothered about things like truth and facts then trifles like copyright law can be dismissed at will.

Wetherspoons has a magazine?

God, yes. Along with the manager and staff of the Elmer Chickenshit pub taking part in a worthy fun run for charity it is pages and pages of full scale Brexit paranoia. The other day I was stuck at the airport as the weather closed in with nothing to entertain me except Wetherspoon's Mein Kampf levels of hatred against the elites and how they were betraying the people of Britain.

The elites that own chains of pubs are an exception of course.

Hardly elite pubs. though. I made the mistake of going to one once and ordering some food. It's not a mistake I shall ever make again.

The food is one level above McDonalds in my view (which means that I've eaten there more than once), but they stock pretty good bottled beer - e.g. Orkney brewery, or from the people local to Cameron's old constituency - and they can't mess up beer that comes to them in a bottle.

Never tried a McDonalds, so I can't comment on the relative awfulness.

Never. Tried. A. McDonalds?

You haven't lived, man!

@Charles: best added to your bucket, rather than your bucket-list; it's every bit a bad as you'd expect it to be.

When you need a big mac you need a big mac. Chicken nuggets also have a role in life. Breakfast sausage, egg mcmuffin great in their way.

Next people will be saying they've never had sausage, egg, chips, beans, and a slice.

TOPPING said:

Black_Rook said:

Benpointer said:

Beverley_C said:

Black_Rook said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1086250866603159552

What, if anything, to make of this?

The suggestion is that nine Government ministers have told their associations to prepare for a GE. Four of them named February 28th as the date, according to this report.

If May's plan B is to request a dissolution on Monday then a two-thirds majority in Parliament does away with the need for the fourteen days' pantomime, meaning that February 28th is doable.

Another complete and utter waste of time. It solves nothing and distracts from the issue of the day. It is no different from postponing the Meaningless Vote for a month.

Better than the inexorable deadlocked slide towards the Brexit cliff edge imo.

But what would the Tory Manifesto offer? If it's May's Deal how would the ERG campaign?

The Tory manifesto would offer the Deal.

The ERG and the Hard Remainers would both be stuck with the manifesto (caveat: one or two of the latter *might* be able to defect to the Lib Dems, but not a significant number.) Certainly there would be no time for the ERG wing to set up a new party, even if it had the inclination to break away (which it probably would not as a split between the Deal/Soft Brexit faction and the Hard Brexit faction would create a circular firing squad.)

The GE acts as a proxy referendum on the Deal. The Tories win and T May checkmates all of her internal party opponents and gets the Deal passed. They fail to win and she resigns, and somebody else (from whichever party or combination of parties can command a majority) has a go at making a different solution work. Under those circumstances, the Tories would be best off if Corbyn was put in the driving seat at the head of a rickety Left coalition, and compelled to implement a solution that will alienate Leave-supporting voters.

I know it's polls, an' that but I don't think they show that the public is especially favourable to The Deal right now.

Pulpstar said:

david_herdson said:

Beverley_C said:

Black_Rook said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1086250866603159552

What, if anything, to make of this?

The suggestion is that nine Government ministers have told their associations to prepare for a GE. Four of them named February 28th as the date, according to this report.

If May's plan B is to request a dissolution on Monday then a two-thirds majority in Parliament does away with the need for the fourteen days' pantomime, meaning that February 28th is doable.

Another complete and utter waste of time. It solves nothing and distracts from the issue of the day. It is no different from postponing the Meaningless Vote for a month.

I think you'd see a major Tory revolt at that. The Party is so split on Brexit that it'd be impossible to enforce any kind of discipline and any attempt to enforce May's line would provoke immense hostility towards the leadership from the members because it would mean either purging the candidates list of any opposed to the WA and/or imposing candidates on constituencies. Either way, there might not be enough people left on the candidates list. Such authoritarian procedures might well not be approved by the Party Board and even if they were, you'd be effectively expelling 60+ MPs and inviting them to form their own party under the leadership of, say, Boris. What could possibly go wrong from there?

Lab Gain Morley and Outwood if Jenkyns stands as a Brexiteer outwith the Tories for one I'm guessing.

Beverley_C said:

Nigelb said:

Beverley_C said:

anothernick said:

Beverley_C said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Anecdote warning with all usual caveats.

I spoke to someone yesterday and at the end of the meeting we got into a general chat and into the subject of Brexit. He said he was Remain 2 years ago (he mentioned that to me at the time two years ago too) but that Britain made a choice and we need to follow through with it. He blames the politicians for the impasse at the moment and not honouring the public's wishes. Says we just need to get on with it now and if there was another vote he would now vote Leave.

You are right, anecdotal and, therefore meaningless

In fairness though, Nigel, it is an argument and one I have some sympathy with - a sort of 'lay in the bed you've made' line of thought. Brexit may be a disaster but we would get over it in time and if it made people a bit more careful about what they voted for, and a bit more aware of the importance of political choices, would that be such a bad thing.

The counter-arguments are plenty of course, but I wouldn't be dismissive of Philip's line. It's certainly far more reasonable than some of the nonsense that was trotted out at the referendum.

I have reached the point where I believe No-Deal Brexit has to happen and, regretfully, it needs to be an utter shambles. Our system needs a severe shock to clean out decades of political deadwood.

I have some sympathy with that view though I think Parliament will not let it happen. More likely there will be last-minute screeching u-turn through either extension or revokation of A50.

What happens happens. I am too dazed by the utter stupidity on display to care any more...

But what makes you think it won't just be continuing utter stupidity after we No Deal Brexit ?

The rest of the world and WTO barriers. There is nothing like a massive inflationary spike to concentrate minds and the JAMs will not be JAMing and the Unions will be in bolshy mood.

If we have to queue for basics, Soviet Union style - even for as little as a week - do you think any government would survive that or be considered re-electable within living memory?

It is the Tories problem. They created this shambles.

david_herdson said:

Pulpstar said:

david_herdson said:

Beverley_C said:

Black_Rook said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1086250866603159552

What, if anything, to make of this?

The suggestion is that nine Government ministers have told their associations to prepare for a GE. Four of them named February 28th as the date, according to this report.

If May's plan B is to request a dissolution on Monday then a two-thirds majority in Parliament does away with the need for the fourteen days' pantomime, meaning that February 28th is doable.

Another complete and utter waste of time. It solves nothing and distracts from the issue of the day. It is no different from postponing the Meaningless Vote for a month.

I think you'd see a major Tory revolt at that. The Party is so split on Brexit that it'd be impossible to enforce any kind of discipline and any attempt to enforce May's line would provoke immense hostility towards the leadership from the members because it would mean either purging the candidates list of any opposed to the WA and/or imposing candidates on constituencies. Either way, there might not be enough people left on the candidates list. Such authoritarian procedures might well not be approved by the Party Board and even if they were, you'd be effectively expelling 60+ MPs and inviting them to form their own party under the leadership of, say, Boris. What could possibly go wrong from there?

Lab Gain Morley and Outwood if Jenkyns stands as a Brexiteer outwith the Tories for one I'm guessing.

Probably, although if you did have a new Brexit Party formed out of the ERG but appealing to Leave voters more generally, it wouldn't necessarily just split the Tory vote and you could see some extraordinary results. Lab would probably win overall though.

Beverley_C said:

Nigelb said:

Beverley_C said:

anothernick said:

Beverley_C said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Anecdote warning with all usual caveats.

I spoke to someone yesterday and at the end of the meeting we got into a general chat and into the subject of Brexit. He said he was Remain 2 years ago (he mentioned that to me at the time two years ago too) but that Britain made a choice and we need to follow through with it. He blames the politicians for the impasse at the moment and not honouring the public's wishes. Says we just need to get on with it now and if there was another vote he would now vote Leave.

You are right, anecdotal and, therefore meaningless

In fairness though, Nigel, it is an argument and one I have some sympathy with - a sort of 'lay in the bed you've made' line of thought. Brexit may be a disaster but we would get over it in time and if it made people a bit more careful about what they voted for, and a bit more aware of the importance of political choices, would that be such a bad thing.

The counter-arguments are plenty of course, but I wouldn't be dismissive of Philip's line. It's certainly far more reasonable than some of the nonsense that was trotted out at the referendum.

I have reached the point where I believe No-Deal Brexit has to happen and, regretfully, it needs to be an utter shambles. Our system needs a severe shock to clean out decades of political deadwood.

I have some sympathy with that view though I think Parliament will not let it happen. More likely there will be last-minute screeching u-turn through either extension or revokation of A50.

What happens happens. I am too dazed by the utter stupidity on display to care any more...

But what makes you think it won't just be continuing utter stupidity after we No Deal Brexit ?

The rest of the world and WTO barriers. There is nothing like a massive inflationary spike to concentrate minds and the JAMs will not be JAMing and the Unions will be in bolshy mood.

If we have to queue for basics, Soviet Union style - even for as little as a week - do you think any government would survive that or be considered re-electable within living memory?

Beverley_C said:

Nigelb said:

Beverley_C said:

anothernick said:

Beverley_C said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Anecdote warning with all usual caveats.

vote Leave.

You are right, anecdotal and, therefore meaningless

In fairness though, Nigel, it is an argument and one I have some sympathy with - a sort of 'lay in the bed you've made' line of thought. Brexit may be a disaster but we would get over it in time and if it made people a bit more careful about what they voted for, and a bit more aware of the importance of political choices, would that be such a bad thing.

The counter-arguments are plenty of course, but I wouldn't be dismissive of Philip's line. It's certainly far more reasonable than some of the nonsense that was trotted out at the referendum.

I have reached the point where I believe No-Deal Brexit has to happen and, regretfully, it needs to be an utter shambles. Our system needs a severe shock to clean out decades of political deadwood.

I have some sympathy with that view though I think Parliament will not let it happen. More likely there will be last-minute screeching u-turn through either extension or revokation of A50.

What happens happens. I am too dazed by the utter stupidity on display to care any more...

But what makes you think it won't just be continuing utter stupidity after we No Deal Brexit ?

The rest of the world and WTO barriers. There is nothing like a massive inflationary spike to concentrate minds and the JAMs will not be JAMing and the Unions will be in bolshy mood.

If we have to queue for basics, Soviet Union style - even for as little as a week - do you think any government would survive that or be considered re-electable within living memory?

It is the Tories problem. They created this shambles.

TOPPING said:

Black_Rook said:

Benpointer said:

Beverley_C said:

Black_Rook said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1086250866603159552

What, if anything, to make of this?

The suggestion is that nine Government ministers have told their associations to prepare for a GE. Four of them named February 28th as the date, according to this report.

If May's plan B is to request a dissolution on Monday then a two-thirds majority in Parliament does away with the need for the fourteen days' pantomime, meaning that February 28th is doable.

Another complete and utter waste of time. It solves nothing and distracts from the issue of the day. It is no different from postponing the Meaningless Vote for a month.

Better than the inexorable deadlocked slide towards the Brexit cliff edge imo.

But what would the Tory Manifesto offer? If it's May's Deal how would the ERG campaign?

The Tory manifesto would offer the Deal.

The ERG and the Hard Remainers would both be stuck with the manifesto (caveat: one or two of the latter *might* be able to defect to the Lib Dems, but not a significant number.) Certainly there would be no time for the ERG wing to set up a new party, even if it had the inclination to break away (which it probably would not as a split between the Deal/Soft Brexit faction and the Hard Brexit faction would create a circular firing squad.)

The GE acts as a proxy referendum on the Deal. The Tories win and T May checkmates all of her internal party opponents and gets the Deal passed. They fail to win and she resigns, and somebody else (from whichever party or combination of parties can command a majority) has a go at making a different solution work. Under those circumstances, the Tories would be best off if Corbyn was put in the driving seat at the head of a rickety Left coalition, and compelled to implement a solution that will alienate Leave-supporting voters.

I know it's polls, an' that but I don't think they show that the public is especially favourable to The Deal right now.

ralphmalph said:

Beverley_C said:

Nigelb said:

Beverley_C said:

anothernick said:

Beverley_C said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Anecdote warning with all usual caveats.

vote Leave.

You are right, anecdotal and, therefore meaningless

In fairness though, Nigel, it is an argument and one I have some sympathy with - a sort of 'lay in the bed you've made' line of thought. Brexit may be a disaster but we would get over it in time and if it made people a bit more careful about what they voted for, and a bit more aware of the importance of political choices, would that be such a bad thing.

The counter-arguments are plenty of course, but I wouldn't be dismissive of Philip's line. It's certainly far more reasonable than some of the nonsense that was trotted out at the referendum.

I have reached the point where I believe No-Deal Brexit has to happen and, regretfully, it needs to be an utter shambles. Our system needs a severe shock to clean out decades of political deadwood.

I have some sympathy with that view though I think Parliament will not let it happen. More likely there will be last-minute screeching u-turn through either extension or revokation of A50.

What happens happens. I am too dazed by the utter stupidity on display to care any more...

But what makes you think it won't just be continuing utter stupidity after we No Deal Brexit ?

The rest of the world and WTO barriers. There is nothing like a massive inflationary spike to concentrate minds and the JAMs will not be JAMing and the Unions will be in bolshy mood.

If we have to queue for basics, Soviet Union style - even for as little as a week - do you think any government would survive that or be considered re-electable within living memory?

It is the Tories problem. They created this shambles.

The Tariffs that we apply after a no deal do not need to be inflationary. You could offset a lot through VAT. For example 10% tariff on cars can be offset by a reduction in the 20% vat rate. Booze with duties can have the duty reduced to compensate.

Some more creative thinking will be required to offset the 80% on Irish beef and 40% on French Yoghurts, but I am sure some smart young civil servant can come up with some whizzo plans.

dots said:

TOPPING said:

Black_Rook said:

Benpointer said:

Beverley_C said:

Black_Rook said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1086250866603159552

What, if anything, to make of this?

The suggestion is that n is doable.

A month.

Better than the inexorable deadlocked slide towards the Brexit cliff edge imo.

But what would the Tory Manifesto offer? If it's May's Deal how would the ERG campaign?

The Tory manifesto would offer the Deal.

The ERG and the Hard Remainers would both be stuck with the manifesto (caveat: one or two of the latter *might* be able to defect to the Lib Dems, but not a significant number.) Certainly there would be no time for the ERG wing to set up a new party, even if it had the inclination to break away (which it probably would not as a split between the Deal/Soft Brexit faction and the Hard Brexit faction would create a circular firing squad.)

The GE acts as a proxy referendum on the Deal. The Tories win and T May checkmates all of her internal party opponents and gets the Deal passed. They fail to win and she resigns, and somebody else (from whichever party or combination of parties can command a majority) has a go at making a different solution work. Under those circumstances, the Tories would be best off if Corbyn was put in the driving seat at the head of a rickety Left coalition, and compelled to implement a solution that will alienate Leave-supporting voters.

I know it's polls, an' that but I don't think they show that the public is especially favourable to The Deal right now.

The Tory Manifesto would offer the deal?

Isn’t part of the deals problem it’s not actually a deal? It’s a withdraw agreement, the ‘deal’ end of it is still very ...nebulous, and this makes the end point all things to all people, supporters and opponents?

For example, spot the odd one out

Remain, on current terms
Leave to a Free Trade Arrangement (similar to Canada’s relationship to EU)
Mays Withdrawal Agreement.

If we are being strict that the only way out this crisis the only thing allowed on a ballot paper is where you clearly know where you are going to end up, the WA aka Mays nebulous deal wouldn’t make it on that ballot would it?

Philip_Thompson said:

Beverley_C said:

Alanbrooke said:

inflation fell this month

Did I miss the introduction of WTO tariffs?

You do realise if WTO tariffs are levied that will inflationary speaking just be a tax levied by our government with the funds going to our government. No different to an increase in VAT. In fact the VAT increase years ago probably had a bigger inflationary impact than any tariff changes will do.

If the government wanted to they could apply WTO tariffs and cut VAT. We wouldn't see any inflation overall though domestic goods and non-EU goods would become relatively cheaper and EU goods relatively more expensive.

But if the EU aren't prepared to offer us a good deal then I don't see why Irish produce shouldn't see the same tariffs as Kiwi produce.

FF43 said:

Anazina said:

Sean_F said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

anothernick said:

FF43 said:

Nemtynakht said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Scott_P said:

the only way this could be better is if it was EU law...

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1086214081013575680

Well I suppose if you aren't bothered about things like truth and facts then trifles like copyright law can be dismissed at will.

Wetherspoons has a magazine?

God, yes. Along with the manager and staff of the Elmer Chickenshit pub taking part in a worthy fun run for charity it is pages and pages of full scale Brexit paranoia. The other day I was stuck at the airport as the weather closed in with nothing to entertain me except Wetherspoon's Mein Kampf levels of hatred against the elites and how they were betraying the people of Britain.

The elites that own chains of pubs are an exception of course.

Hardly elite pubs. though. I made the mistake of going to one once and ordering some food. It's not a mistake I shall ever make again.

The Wetherspoons in Spennymoor is outstandingly good value.

None of them are particularly good value. You pay low prices, for absolutely bloody awful food.

Wetherspoon's is minimum standard at affordable prices. You know where you are with them and so I do eat there when I'm on the move. So I guess the value is OK.

If I want a meal out I go somewhere else.

Philip_Thompson said:

ralphmalph said:

Beverley_C said:

Nigelb said:

Beverley_C said:

anothernick said:

Beverley_C said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Anecdote warning with all usual caveats.

vote Leave.

You are right, anecdotal and, therefore meaningless

The counter-arguments are plenty of course, but I wouldn't be dismissive of Philip's line. It's certainly far more reasonable than some of the nonsense that was trotted out at the referendum.

I have reached the point where I believe No-Deal Brexit has to happen and, regretfully, it needs to be an utter shambles. Our system needs a severe shock to clean out decades of political deadwood.

I have some sympathy with that view though I think Parliament will not let it happen. More likely there will be last-minute screeching u-turn through either extension or revokation of A50.

What happens happens. I am too dazed by the utter stupidity on display to care any more...

But what makes you think it won't just be continuing utter stupidity after we No Deal Brexit ?

The rest of the world and WTO barriers. There is nothing like a massive inflationary spike to concentrate minds and the JAMs will not be JAMing and the Unions will be in bolshy mood.

If we have to queue for basics, Soviet Union style - even for as little as a week - do you think any government would survive that or be considered re-electable within living memory?

It is the Tories problem. They created this shambles.

The Tariffs that we apply after a no deal do not need to be inflationary. You could offset a lot through VAT. For example 10% tariff on cars can be offset by a reduction in the 20% vat rate. Booze with duties can have the duty reduced to compensate.

Some more creative thinking will be required to offset the 80% on Irish beef and 40% on French Yoghurts, but I am sure some smart young civil servant can come up with some whizzo plans.

Or people could buy British beef. I will cry no tears if Irish beef is treated the same as Australia's beef.

Benpointer said:

TOPPING said:

Sean_F said:

TOPPING said:

Benpointer said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

anothernick said:

FF43 said:

Nemtynakht said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Scott_P said:

the

Well I suppose if you aren't bothered about things like truth and facts then trifles like copyright law can be dismissed at will.

Wetherspoons has a magazine?

God, yes. Along with the manager and staff of the Elmer Chickenshit pub taking part in a worthy fun run for charity it is pages and pages of full scale Brexit paranoia. The other day I was stuck at the airport as the weather closed in with nothing to entertain me except Wetherspoon's Mein Kampf levels of hatred against the elites and how they were betraying the people of Britain.

The elites that own chains of pubs are an exception of course.

Hardly elite pubs. though. I made the mistake of going to one once and ordering some food. It's not a mistake I shall ever make again.

The food is one level above McDonalds in my view (which means that I've eaten there more than once), but they stock pretty good bottled beer - e.g. Orkney brewery, or from the people local to Cameron's old constituency - and they can't mess up beer that comes to them in a bottle.

Never tried a McDonalds, so I can't comment on the relative awfulness.

Never. Tried. A. McDonalds?

You haven't lived, man!

@Charles: best added to your bucket, rather than your bucket-list; it's every bit a bad as you'd expect it to be.

When you need a big mac you need a big mac. Chicken nuggets also have a role in life. Breakfast sausage, egg mcmuffin great in their way.

Next people will be saying they've never had sausage, egg, chips, beans, and a slice.

I was put off by a report which found traces of excrement on Macdonald's surfaces.

I'm going to have to believe that there are traces of excrement in a whole lot of places not limited to McDonalds. Whatever happened to the claim that there are 28 different types of urine to be found on the exquisite nibbles people are handed at fancy-pants hotel bars?

At a molecular or even cellular level it's hard to imagine that's wrong. We probably all to bacteria averse these days anyway.

Benpointer said:

TOPPING said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

anothernick said:

FF43 said:

Nemtynakht said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Scott_P said:

the only way this could be better is if it was EU law...

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1086214081013575680

Well I suppose if you aren't bothered about things like truth and facts then trifles like copyright law can be dismissed at will.

Wetherspoons has a magazine?

God, yes. Along with the manager and staff of the Elmer Chickenshit pub taking part in a worthy fun run for charity it is pages and pages of full scale Brexit paranoia. The other day I was stuck at the airport as the weather closed in with nothing to entertain me except Wetherspoon's Mein Kampf levels of hatred against the elites and how they were betraying the people of Britain.

The elites that own chains of pubs are an exception of course.

Hardly elite pubs. though. I made the mistake of going to one once and ordering some food. It's not a mistake I shall ever make again.

The food is one level above McDonalds in my view (which means that I've eaten there more than once), but they stock pretty good bottled beer - e.g. Orkney brewery, or from the people local to Cameron's old constituency - and they can't mess up beer that comes to them in a bottle.

Never tried a McDonalds, so I can't comment on the relative awfulness.

Never. Tried. A. McDonalds?

You haven't lived, man!

@Charles: best added to your bucket, rather than your bucket-list; it's every bit a bad as you'd expect it to be.

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

kle4 said:

Anazina said:

Stereotomy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

So many talk about stopping no deal but it amazes me that they think saying it it will happen

There were several examples of mps yesterday on the media saying it has to be stopped but not how

Some of these politicians say TM is to blame for the 29th March no deal exit date, but 498 of them voted for it and simply had not thought if through. Each and every one of them shares collective responsibility although not the 114 who voted against

There are only 3 ways to stop it. Sign a deal (there is one ready to go), revoke A50 or extend it, subject to the 27 EU countries terms

But you also have to have a government to put forward the legislation and a HOC to vote for it

So when anyone says stop no deal, they have to say how

I think people are deliberately being overly pedantic about this. When people say Theresa May should rule out no deal, they mean rule out it ever being the government's position, and that furthermore she should commit to doing everything in her power to avert it (rather than just everything that respects her red lines, or everything that keeps her party on side, etc.)

I also think it is within her power practically. If she put forward a bill saying that, if no deal is reached by March 28th, we will automatically revoke A50, I'm pretty certain that would get through parliament. Not doing so is her choice, whether or not that's a justifiable choice.

Absolutely spot on.

I disagree. The scenario laid out therr is she should ensure we remain if no agreement is reached, just another transparent ploy to ensure half of parliament has no incentive to even try to reach agreement. Any option which involves revocation immediately means no brexit deal will get through, and that would be the aim.

If we can't get a deal then obviously we should remain.

We have a deal, so there ends your argument.

FF43 said:

Anazina said:

Sean_F said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

anothernick said:

FF43 said:

Nemtynakht said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Scott_P said:

the only way this could be better is if it was EU law...

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1086214081013575680

Well I suppose if you aren't bothered about things like truth and facts then trifles like copyright law can be dismissed at will.

Wetherspoons has a magazine?

God, yes. Along with the manager and staff of the Elmer Chickenshit pub taking part in a worthy fun run for charity it is pages and pages of full scale Brexit paranoia. The other day I was stuck at the airport as the weather closed in with nothing to entertain me except Wetherspoon's Mein Kampf levels of hatred against the elites and how they were betraying the people of Britain.

The elites that own chains of pubs are an exception of course.

Hardly elite pubs. though. I made the mistake of going to one once and ordering some food. It's not a mistake I shall ever make again.

The Wetherspoons in Spennymoor is outstandingly good value.

None of them are particularly good value. You pay low prices, for absolutely bloody awful food.

Wetherspoon's is minimum standard at affordable prices. You know where you are with them and so I do eat there when I'm on the move. So I guess the value is OK.

If I want a meal out I go somewhere else.

IanB2 said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

kle4 said:

Anazina said:

Stereotomy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

So many talk about stopping no deal but it amazes me that they think saying it it will happen

There were several examples of mps yesterday on the media saying it has to be stopped but not how

Some of these politicians say TM is to blame for the 29th March no deal exit date, but 498 of them voted for it and simply had not thought if through. Each and every one of them shares collective responsibility although not the 114 who voted against

There are only 3 ways to stop it. Sign a deal (there is one ready to go), revoke A50 or extend it, subject to the 27 EU countries terms

But you also have to have a government to put forward the legislation and a HOC to vote for it

So when anyone says stop no deal, they have to say how

I think people are deliberately being overly pedantic about this. When people say Theresa May should rule out no deal, they mean rule out it ever being the government's position, and that furthermore she should commit to doing everything in her power to avert it (rather than just everything that respects her red lines, or everything that keeps her party on side, etc.)

I also think it is within her power practically. If she put forward a bill saying that, if no deal is reached by March 28th, we will automatically revoke A50, I'm pretty certain that would get through parliament. Not doing so is her choice, whether or not that's a justifiable choice.

Absolutely spot on.

I disagree. The scenario laid out therr is she should ensure we remain if no agreement is reached, just another transparent ploy to ensure half of parliament has no incentive to even try to reach agreement. Any option which involves revocation immediately means no brexit deal will get through, and that would be the aim.

If we can't get a deal then obviously we should remain.

We have a deal, so there ends your argument.

Better get your party colleagues to vote for it, then

rpjs said:

Anazina said:

Sean_F said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

anothernick said:

FF43 said:

Nemtynakht said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Scott_P said:

the only way this could be better is if it was EU law...

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1086214081013575680

Well I suppose if you aren't bothered about things like truth and facts then trifles like copyright law can be dismissed at will.

Wetherspoons has a magazine?

God, yes. Along with the manager and staff of the Elmer Chickenshit pub taking part in a worthy fun run for charity it is pages and pages of full scale Brexit paranoia. The other day I was stuck at the airport as the weather closed in with nothing to entertain me except Wetherspoon's Mein Kampf levels of hatred against the elites and how they were betraying the people of Britain.

The elites that own chains of pubs are an exception of course.

Hardly elite pubs. though. I made the mistake of going to one once and ordering some food. It's not a mistake I shall ever make again.

The Wetherspoons in Spennymoor is outstandingly good value.

None of them are particularly good value. You pay low prices, for absolutely bloody awful food.

I remember a family get together, with folks flown in from the US, at a great Thai restaurant in Rochester. My brother, who had gastric issues at the time, announced he couldn't eat anything on the menu so we all ended up in the 'spoons next door. The food was vile.

Nigelb said:

stodge said:

Black_Rook said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1086250866603159552

What, if anything, to make of this?

The suggestion is that nine Government ministers have told their associations to prepare for a GE. Four of them named February 28th as the date, according to this report.

If May's plan B is to request a dissolution on Monday then a two-thirds majority in Parliament does away with the need for the fourteen days' pantomime, meaning that February 28th is doable.

The last time a Conservative PM went for an election on Feb 28th it didn't end well and he was starting with a majority.

Why do we need a GE? What will it achieve? All it will do is waste valuable preparation time for 29/3. Sheer unadulterated futility.

We don't, and all the polling indicates the public feel the same.
My guess/hope is that it is just contingency planning in case things fall apart.

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Has Boris been saying we've not even tried to ask for the backstop not to be included? He cannot possibly believe that.

I believe it. We've not tried strenuously enough.

We've not even gone back to the EU and said Parliament has rejected the backstop it needs to be removed or we have no deal.

Beverley_C said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

kle4 said:

Anazina said:

Stereotomy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

So many talk about stopping no deal but it amazes me that they think saying it it will happen

There were several examples of mps yesterday on the media saying it has to be stopped but not how

Some of these politicians say TM is to blame for the 29th March no deal exit date, but 498 of them voted for it and simply had not thought if through. Each and every one of them shares collective responsibility although not the 114 who voted against

There are only 3 ways to stop it. Sign a deal (there is one ready to go), revoke A50 or extend it, subject to the 27 EU countries terms

But you also have to have a government to put forward the legislation and a HOC to vote for it

So when anyone says stop no deal, they have to say how

I think people are deliberately being overly pedantic about this. When people say Theresa May should rule out no deal, they mean rule out it ever being the government's position, and that furthermore she should commit to doing everything in her power to avert it (rather than just everything that respects her red lines, or everything that keeps her party on side, etc.)

I also think it is within her power practically. If she put forward a bill saying that, if no deal is reached by March 28th, we will automatically revoke A50, I'm pretty certain that would get through parliament. Not doing so is her choice, whether or not that's a justifiable choice.

Absolutely spot on.

I disagree. The scenario laid out therr is she should ensure we remain if no agreement is reached, just another transparent ploy to ensure half of parliament has no incentive to even try to reach agreement. Any option which involves revocation immediately means no brexit deal will get through, and that would be the aim.

If we can't get a deal then obviously we should remain.

We have a deal, so there ends your argument.

Really? Where? You mean the one that was rejected by the biggest govt revolt in history? That now-deader-then-mutton Deal?

Beverley_C said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

kle4 said:

Anazina said:

Stereotomy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

So many talk about stopping no deal but it amazes me that they think saying it it will happen

There were several examples of mps yesterday on the media saying it has to be stopped but not how

Some of these politicians say TM is to blame for the 29th March no deal exit date, but 498 of them voted for it and simply had not thought if through. Each and every one of them shares collective responsibility although not the 114 who voted against

There are only 3 ways to stop it. Sign a deal (there is one ready to go), revoke A50 or extend it, subject to the 27 EU countries terms

But you also have to have a government to put forward the legislation and a HOC to vote for it

So when anyone says stop no deal, they have to say how

I think people are deliberately being overly pedantic about this. When people say Theresa May should rule out no deal, they mean rule out it ever being the government's position, and that furthermore she should commit to doing everything in her power to avert it (rather than just everything that respects her red lines, or everything that keeps her party on side, etc.)

I also think it is within her power practically. If she put forward a bill saying that, if no deal is reached by March 28th, we will automatically revoke A50, I'm pretty certain that would get through parliament. Not doing so is her choice, whether or not that's a justifiable choice.

Absolutely spot on.

I disagree. The scenario laid out therr is she should ensure we remain if no agreement is reached, just another transparent ploy to ensure half of parliament has no incentive to even try to reach agreement. Any option which involves revocation immediately means no brexit deal will get through, and that would be the aim.

If we can't get a deal then obviously we should remain.

We have a deal, so there ends your argument.

Really? Where? You mean the one that was rejected by the biggest govt revolt in history? That now-deader-then-mutton Deal?

Nemtynakht said:

Anazina said:

Sean_F said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

anothernick said:

FF43 said:

Nemtynakht said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Scott_P said:

the only way this could be better is if it was EU law...

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1086214081013575680

Well I suppose if you aren't bothered about things like truth and facts then trifles like copyright law can be dismissed at will.

Wetherspoons has a magazine?

God, yes. Along with the manager and staff of the Elmer Chickenshit pub taking part in a worthy fun run for charity it is pages and pages of full scale Brexit paranoia. The other day I was stuck at the airport as the weather closed in with nothing to entertain me except Wetherspoon's Mein Kampf levels of hatred against the elites and how they were betraying the people of Britain.

The elites that own chains of pubs are an exception of course.

Hardly elite pubs. though. I made the mistake of going to one once and ordering some food. It's not a mistake I shall ever make again.

The Wetherspoons in Spennymoor is outstandingly good value.

None of them are particularly good value. You pay low prices, for absolutely bloody awful food.

I used to go in the Briar Rose on Bennett’s Hill in Central Birmingham which had a great selection of real ales and you didn’t see any of the fellow professional types who preferred the wine bars off Colmore Row. They also used to do a pint of real ale and a chicken burger (which was a chicken breast) on a bun with chips and salad - 5 quid for both. That’s about 5 years ago mind you but outstanding valued if you go in the right one.

RobD said:

Gallowgate said:

I like Wetherspoons food.

Cheap and cheerful. No wonder the snobs hate it

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Deary me, PBers liking Weatherspoons and McD food....OGH get your house in order, ban these people forthwith.

Wetherspoons are Chav central.

They are frequented by people who think Die Hard is a Christmas film and pineapple is an acceptable topping for pizza.

Morris_Dancer said:

The last few times I had McDonalds, some time ago, was after hospital visits. It was late at night, and they were one of the few places open. I quite liked the salt, despite the potato strips I found in it.

Gallowgate said:

Beverley_C said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

kle4 said:

Anazina said:

Stereotomy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

So many talk about stopping no deal but it amazes me that they think saying it it will happen

There were several examples of mps yesterday on the media saying it has to be stopped but not how

Some of these politicians say TM is to blame for the 29th March no deal exit date, but 498 of them voted for it and simply had not thought if through. Each and every one of them shares collective responsibility although not the 114 who voted against

There are only 3 ways to stop it. Sign a deal (there is one ready to go), revoke A50 or extend it, subject to the 27 EU countries terms

But you also have to have a government to put forward the legislation and a HOC to vote for it

So when anyone says stop no deal, they have to say how

I think people are deliberately being overly pedantic about this. When people say Theresa May should rule out no deal, they mean rule out it ever being the government's position, and that furthermore she should commit to doing everything in her power to avert it (rather than just everything that respects her red lines, or everything that keeps her party on side, etc.)

I also think it is within her power practically. If she put forward a bill saying that, if no deal is reached by March 28th, we will automatically revoke A50, I'm pretty certain that would get through parliament. Not doing so is her choice, whether or not that's a justifiable choice.

Absolutely spot on.

I disagree. The scenario laid out therr is she should ensure we remain if no agreement is reached, just another transparent ploy to ensure half of parliament has no incentive to even try to reach agreement. Any option which involves revocation immediately means no brexit deal will get through, and that would be the aim.

If we can't get a deal then obviously we should remain.

We have a deal, so there ends your argument.

Really? Where? You mean the one that was rejected by the biggest govt revolt in history? That now-deader-then-mutton Deal?

I used to buy mutton a lot as it was always really cheap and tasted pretty much the same as lamb. Can't seem to get it anywhere anymore.

Anazina said:

Nemtynakht said:

Anazina said:

Sean_F said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

anothernick said:

FF43 said:

Nemtynakht said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Scott_P said:

the only way this could be better is if it was EU law...

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1086214081013575680

Well I suppose if you aren't bothered about things like truth and facts then trifles like copyright law can be dismissed at will.

Wetherspoons has a magazine?

God, yes. Along with the manager and staff of the Elmer Chickenshit pub taking part in a worthy fun run for charity it is pages and pages of full scale Brexit paranoia. The other day I was stuck at the airport as the weather closed in with nothing to entertain me except Wetherspoon's Mein Kampf levels of hatred against the elites and how they were betraying the people of Britain.

The elites that own chains of pubs are an exception of course.

Hardly elite pubs. though. I made the mistake of going to one once and ordering some food. It's not a mistake I shall ever make again.

The Wetherspoons in Spennymoor is outstandingly good value.

None of them are particularly good value. You pay low prices, for absolutely bloody awful food.

I used to go in the Briar Rose on Bennett’s Hill in Central Birmingham which had a great selection of real ales and you didn’t see any of the fellow professional types who preferred the wine bars off Colmore Row. They also used to do a pint of real ale and a chicken burger (which was a chicken breast) on a bun with chips and salad - 5 quid for both. That’s about 5 years ago mind you but outstanding valued if you go in the right one.

I very much doubt the chicken was high welfare. I don't eat any chicken that isn't free range and I'd encourage others to observe similar standards.

Beverley_C said:

TudorRose said:

Beverley_C said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Beverley_C said:

Nigelb said:

But what makes you think it won't just be continuing utter stupidity after we No Deal Brexit ?

The rest of the world and WTO barriers. There is nothing like a massive inflationary spike to concentrate minds and the JAMs will not be JAMing and the Unions will be in bolshy mood.

If we have to queue for basics, Soviet Union style - even for as little as a week - do you think any government would survive that or be considered re-electable within living memory?

It is the Tories problem. They created this shambles.

And (hypothetically) if the fears turn out to be overblown and we do manage just fine would you be relieved or disappointed?

I would be relieved. I do not want a shambles, but I expect it. Not the same thing.

I have constantly argued that if Remainers are wrong about the WTO Apocalypse then we just look a bit daft, no real harm done. OTOH, if Leaver Complacency is wrong about WTO then we have a disaster and they look like liars or mendacious.

I'm not sure why one group of people getting it wrong (Remainers) only 'look a bit daft' when another group would be considered 'mendacious'? If WTO Apocalypse is wrong then it will leave some of us wondering how many other times false fear has been used to hold the country back; whether that be Brexit, unilateral disarmament or (bless him) Neil Kinnock.

Remainers getting it wrong has little or no impact.

Leavers.

The facts do not matter - perception is everything.