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Comments
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Persia was neutral.williamglenn said:
Persia?kle4 said:
Trying to find it on this wiki list of timelines of national flags, no luck so far!Foxy said:
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.Richard_Tyndall said:
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.Sunil_Prasannan said:
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.Foxy said:
Boxer rebellion? There is a German flag too.Benpointer said:Richard_Nabavi said:Bored with Brexit? Explain this instead:
https://twitter.com/RichardNabavi/status/1084937174003400706
First World War commemorative plate?
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_national_flags
https://fotw.info/flags/mn-early.html
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It's a World War 1 commemorative plate.kle4 said:
Trying to find it on this wiki list of timelines of national flags, no luck so far!Foxy said:
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.Richard_Tyndall said:
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.Sunil_Prasannan said:
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.Foxy said:
Boxer rebellion? There is a German flag too.Benpointer said:Richard_Nabavi said:Bored with Brexit? Explain this instead:
https://twitter.com/RichardNabavi/status/1084937174003400706
First World War commemorative plate?
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_national_flags0 -
What's your point?Sunil_Prasannan said:
It's a World War 1 commemorative plate.kle4 said:
Trying to find it on this wiki list of timelines of national flags, no luck so far!Foxy said:
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.Richard_Tyndall said:
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.Sunil_Prasannan said:
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.Foxy said:
Boxer rebellion? There is a German flag too.Benpointer said:Richard_Nabavi said:Bored with Brexit? Explain this instead:
https://twitter.com/RichardNabavi/status/1084937174003400706
First World War commemorative plate?
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_national_flags0 -
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Montenegro didn't have a flag like that in WW1RobD said:
Montenegro or Mongolia are the only two that I could find with a red background and yellow border.Foxy said:
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.Richard_Tyndall said:
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.Sunil_Prasannan said:
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.Foxy said:
Boxer rebellion? There is a German flag too.Benpointer said:Richard_Nabavi said:Bored with Brexit? Explain this instead:
https://twitter.com/RichardNabavi/status/1084937174003400706
First World War commemorative plate?
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.0 -
Is it stupid that I'm actually excited for tomorrow?0
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What’s the opposite of a Disciple?Scott_P said:
From now on, we can refer to these people as Satan’s little helpers. God preserve us from their cretinous idiocy.0 -
A group of heroes, to be sure. Able as well to know perfectly how to face down and outwit the EU, and yet contains a group who by their own admission were outwitted by May since they did not know what she was up to.Scott_P said:0 -
Murray himself once compared Mo Farah being able to run the 25th 400m of a 10K race in 53 seconds while Murray could only manage 57 seconds for his first 400m repetition. So Farah it is.FrancisUrquhart said:Andy Murray: Why I say he's Britain's greatest sportsman
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-46838567
God this is even more OTT....
Yes he was briefly ranked #1, but nobody is going to look back and say he was better than the big three.
In comparison, Faldo, twice as many majors, world #1 for 2 years straight. Redgrave greatest ever Olympian, etc etc etc. All those listed against him are indisputably the world best at their peak, Murray has always been behind the big three by varying amounts.
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No. There are far worse things to be excited about. Dogging, for instance.grabcocque said:Is it stupid that I'm actually excited for tomorrow?
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Yes. I'm sick to my stomach. It's the uncertainty that is so awful, since we know what the three options on the table are, but there'll be so much nonsense and chaos until we get there.grabcocque said:Is it stupid that I'm actually excited for tomorrow?
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So in order to avoid a No-Deal Brexit, MPs are going to vote against May's deal (the only one the EU seem to be offering us at the mo) which will risk, er, a No-Deal Brexit?0
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Yes, and other MPs, in order to ensure Brexit happens, will vote against the deal which implements it.Sunil_Prasannan said:So in order to avoid a No-Deal Brexit, MPs are going to vote against May's deal (the only one the EU seem to be offering us at the mo) which will risk, er, a No-Deal Brexit?
Is that all perfectly clear now?0 -
Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, and other MPs, in order to ensure Brexit happens, will vote against the deal which implements it.Sunil_Prasannan said:So in order to avoid a No-Deal Brexit, MPs are going to vote against May's deal (the only one the EU seem to be offering us at the mo) which will risk, er, a No-Deal Brexit?
Is that all perfectly clear now?
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Yes. We're not spectators, we're participants. And we're not the protagonists.grabcocque said:Is it stupid that I'm actually excited for tomorrow?
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As I said, morons. Greatly entertained though that they consider a mass rebellion by Tory MPs against a Tory government delivering a policy in the Tory manifesto as the best way to secure votes for the Tories in futureRoyalBlue said:
What’s the opposite of a Disciple?Scott_P said:
From now on, we can refer to these people as Satan’s little helpers. God preserve us from their cretinous idiocy.0 -
You forgot that Brexit isn't Brexit unless it is Brexit Brexit, rather than just Brexit.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, and other MPs, in order to ensure Brexit happens, will vote against the deal which implements it.Sunil_Prasannan said:So in order to avoid a No-Deal Brexit, MPs are going to vote against May's deal (the only one the EU seem to be offering us at the mo) which will risk, er, a No-Deal Brexit?
Is that all perfectly clear now?0 -
That was random :-)RoyalBlue said:
No. There are far worse things to be excited about. Dogging, for instance.grabcocque said:Is it stupid that I'm actually excited for tomorrow?
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That said, they’re still better than the lickspittles who are happy for their party to be led by an antisemitic terrorist-sympathising malingerer.RochdalePioneers said:
As I said, morons. Greatly entertained though that they consider a mass rebellion by Tory MPs against a Tory government delivering a policy in the Tory manifesto as the best way to secure votes for the Tories in futureRoyalBlue said:
What’s the opposite of a Disciple?Scott_P said:
From now on, we can refer to these people as Satan’s little helpers. God preserve us from their cretinous idiocy.0 -
I think most of them must have been fast asleep when they were ministers.kle4 said:
A group of heroes, to be sure. Able as well to know perfectly how to face down and outwit the EU, and yet contains a group who by their own admission were outwitted by May since they did not know what she was up to.Scott_P said:0 -
“No deal is better than a bad deal” T May
Goodnight and good luck.0 -
I refer you to Viewcode's Typology.Scott_P said:0 -
We’re talking about Brexit, after all.Floater said:
That was random :-)RoyalBlue said:
No. There are far worse things to be excited about. Dogging, for instance.grabcocque said:Is it stupid that I'm actually excited for tomorrow?
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Oh, and all this palaver is largely caused by the Irish, who, in order to avoid at all costs the need for border checks if we can't reach a deal, have insisted that the EU should stick to a red line which is likely to mean no deal and therefore trigger border checks in a few weeks' time.0
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Are they actually brain -damaged, do you think?Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, and other MPs, in order to ensure Brexit happens, will vote against the deal which implements it.Sunil_Prasannan said:So in order to avoid a No-Deal Brexit, MPs are going to vote against May's deal (the only one the EU seem to be offering us at the mo) which will risk, er, a No-Deal Brexit?
Is that all perfectly clear now?0 -
It's not Boxer Rebellion as suggested up-thread.kle4 said:
What's your point?Sunil_Prasannan said:
It's a World War 1 commemorative plate.kle4 said:
Trying to find it on this wiki list of timelines of national flags, no luck so far!Foxy said:
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.Richard_Tyndall said:
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.Sunil_Prasannan said:
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.Foxy said:
Boxer rebellion? There is a German flag too.Benpointer said:Richard_Nabavi said:Bored with Brexit? Explain this instead:
https://twitter.com/RichardNabavi/status/1084937174003400706
First World War commemorative plate?
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_national_flags0 -
Probably not for long, though. For the Irish no deal really is better than a bad deal.Richard_Nabavi said:Oh, and all this palaver is largely caused by the Irish, who, in order to avoid at all costs the need for border checks if we can't reach a deal, have insisted that the EU should stick to a red line which is likely to mean no deal and therefore trigger border checks in a few weeks' time.
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It seems to be some kind of mass hysteria.Sean_F said:
Are they actually brain -damaged, do you think?Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, and other MPs, in order to ensure Brexit happens, will vote against the deal which implements it.Sunil_Prasannan said:So in order to avoid a No-Deal Brexit, MPs are going to vote against May's deal (the only one the EU seem to be offering us at the mo) which will risk, er, a No-Deal Brexit?
Is that all perfectly clear now?0 -
TND was saying on Newsnight that TM won't resign... Not sure whether that means she's out in 24hrs time or not!AndyJS said:"Theresa May 'will have to stand down' if she suffers heavy defeat in Brexit vote, Cabinet ministers suggest"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/14/theresa-may-will-asked-stand-suffers-heavy-defeat-brexit-vote/
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Romania has a bit of yellow and red - but the blue's missing!RobD said:
Ah, Montenegro had a white border back in 1900, and you are right that the Mongolian flag was from 1911. The hunt continues...Foxy said:
I don't think Mongolia existed as a country in 1900. I wondered if it was the flag of an anti-Boxer faction of the Qing dynasty, but I cannot find one that looks like that.RobD said:
Montenegro or Mongolia are the only two that I could find with a red background and yellow border.Foxy said:
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.Richard_Tyndall said:
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.Sunil_Prasannan said:
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.Foxy said:
Boxer rebellion? There is a German flag too.Benpointer said:Richard_Nabavi said:Bored with Brexit? Explain this instead:
https://twitter.com/RichardNabavi/status/1084937174003400706
First World War commemorative plate?
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.0 -
Why? I'd have thought exactly the opposite.SouthamObserver said:
Probably not for long, though. For the Irish no deal really is better than a bad deal.Richard_Nabavi said:Oh, and all this palaver is largely caused by the Irish, who, in order to avoid at all costs the need for border checks if we can't reach a deal, have insisted that the EU should stick to a red line which is likely to mean no deal and therefore trigger border checks in a few weeks' time.
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I don't think that 's the killer point he thinks it is.Scott_P said:0 -
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Something tells me she will need to be prised outBarnesian said:
She won't.AndyJS said:"Theresa May 'will have to stand down' if she suffers heavy defeat in Brexit vote, Cabinet ministers suggest"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/14/theresa-may-will-asked-stand-suffers-heavy-defeat-brexit-vote/0 -
Romania is absent the Entente Powers, I wonder if it's a misrendering of the design?Sunil_Prasannan said:
It's a World War 1 commemorative plate.kle4 said:
Trying to find it on this wiki list of timelines of national flags, no luck so far!Foxy said:
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.Richard_Tyndall said:
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.Sunil_Prasannan said:
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.Foxy said:
Boxer rebellion? There is a German flag too.Benpointer said:Richard_Nabavi said:Bored with Brexit? Explain this instead:
https://twitter.com/RichardNabavi/status/1084937174003400706
First World War commemorative plate?
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_national_flags0 -
Ceylon?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Persia was neutral.williamglenn said:
Persia?kle4 said:
Trying to find it on this wiki list of timelines of national flags, no luck so far!Foxy said:
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.Richard_Tyndall said:
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.Sunil_Prasannan said:
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.Foxy said:
Boxer rebellion? There is a German flag too.Benpointer said:Richard_Nabavi said:Bored with Brexit? Explain this instead:
https://twitter.com/RichardNabavi/status/1084937174003400706
First World War commemorative plate?
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_national_flags
https://fotw.info/flags/mn-early.html0 -
Whilst all parties insist there will be no hard border.......Richard_Nabavi said:Oh, and all this palaver is largely caused by the Irish, who, in order to avoid at all costs the need for border checks if we can't reach a deal, have insisted that the EU should stick to a red line which is likely to mean no deal and therefore trigger border checks in a few weeks' time.
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HM rule by decree incoming. Preferable to the current lotScott_P said: 0 -
They’ll be stuck with a bad deal. A few weeks of No Deal will leave the UK in an even weaker position and so more likely to sign up to what the Irish actually want.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why? I'd have thought exactly the opposite.SouthamObserver said:
Probably not for long, though. For the Irish no deal really is better than a bad deal.Richard_Nabavi said:Oh, and all this palaver is largely caused by the Irish, who, in order to avoid at all costs the need for border checks if we can't reach a deal, have insisted that the EU should stick to a red line which is likely to mean no deal and therefore trigger border checks in a few weeks' time.
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I'm wondering if the mysterious black/white/red on the left is a late replacement for Russia and is meant to be a second version of the French flag. Note that it doesn't appear around the rim, which all the other five main flags do.TheWhiteRabbit said:Romania is absent the Entente Powers, I wonder if it's a misrendering of the design?
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That's a hell of a risky calculation if they are thinking that way.SouthamObserver said:
They’ll be stuck with a bad deal. A few weeks of No Deal will leave the UK in an even weaker position and so more likely to sign up to what the Irish actually want.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why? I'd have thought exactly the opposite.SouthamObserver said:
Probably not for long, though. For the Irish no deal really is better than a bad deal.Richard_Nabavi said:Oh, and all this palaver is largely caused by the Irish, who, in order to avoid at all costs the need for border checks if we can't reach a deal, have insisted that the EU should stick to a red line which is likely to mean no deal and therefore trigger border checks in a few weeks' time.
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The ERGers are of course right and rational. If May's vassalage deal is the best that can be delivered with the referendum result fresh and undischarged then the chances of End State getting any softer are nil. The clock just resets to 15 months till the deadline on the extension vote. End State won't be ready in 15 months so we'll have the same debate. No Deal or extend. We'll extend. Then the clock resets to 26 months between the extension vote and End State. But if we don't want the back stop then End State needs to look like Transition does. And of course the parliamentry term ends before End State happens which adds massive risk of a europhile government completing End State.
Basically if you are an ERGer it's now or never. You think ( rightly ) that May's deal is vassalage and the momentum is only moving away from you. I think they are both correct and being quite rational.0 -
Only if they are no deal supporters. Plenty are still peddling unicorn new deals.Yellow_Submarine said:The ERGers are of course right and rational. If May's vassalage deal is the best that can be delivered with the referendum result fresh and undischarged then the chances of End State getting any softer are nil. The clock just resets to 15 months till the deadline on the extension vote. End State won't be ready in 15 months so we'll have the same debate. No Deal or extend. We'll extend. Then the clock resets to 26 months between the extension vote and End State. But if we don't want the back stop then End State needs to look like Transition does. And of course the parliamentry term ends before End State happens which adds massive risk of a europhile government completing End State.
Basically if you are an ERGer it's now or never. You think ( rightly ) that May's deal is vassalage and the momentum is only moving away from you. I think they are both correct and being quite rational.0 -
Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's a hell of a risky calculation if they are thinking that way.SouthamObserver said:
They’ll be stuck with a bad deal. A few weeks of No Deal will leave the UK in an even weaker position and so more likely to sign up to what the Irish actually want.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why? I'd have thought exactly the opposite.SouthamObserver said:
Probably not for long, though. For the Irish no deal really is better than a bad deal.Richard_Nabavi said:Oh, and all this palaver is largely caused by the Irish, who, in order to avoid at all costs the need for border checks if we can't reach a deal, have insisted that the EU should stick to a red line which is likely to mean no deal and therefore trigger border checks in a few weeks' time.
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Oh well, good luck to the nation tomorrow. An almost certain record defeat for the government, and then a new pantomime opens up, one in which hopefully more will admit that they only want remain, or no deal, and they can stop cocking about.0
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Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
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Oh, wait, no, now let me guess....SouthamObserver said:
Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's a hell of a risky calculation if they are thinking that way.SouthamObserver said:
They’ll be stuck with a bad deal. A few weeks of No Deal will leave the UK in an even weaker position and so more likely to sign up to what the Irish actually want.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why? I'd have thought exactly the opposite.SouthamObserver said:
Probably not for long, though. For the Irish no deal really is better than a bad deal.Richard_Nabavi said:Oh, and all this palaver is largely caused by the Irish, who, in order to avoid at all costs the need for border checks if we can't reach a deal, have insisted that the EU should stick to a red line which is likely to mean no deal and therefore trigger border checks in a few weeks' time.
It's Malta, isn't it?!
Yeah, Malta. That was it...
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If one thinks that the WA makes us the EU's vassal, I suppose that 's correct. But, it 's a daft belief.Yellow_Submarine said:The ERGers are of course right and rational. If May's vassalage deal is the best that can be delivered with the referendum result fresh and undischarged then the chances of End State getting any softer are nil. The clock just resets to 15 months till the deadline on the extension vote. End State won't be ready in 15 months so we'll have the same debate. No Deal or extend. We'll extend. Then the clock resets to 26 months between the extension vote and End State. But if we don't want the back stop then End State needs to look like Transition does. And of course the parliamentry term ends before End State happens which adds massive risk of a europhile government completing End State.
Basically if you are an ERGer it's now or never. You think ( rightly ) that May's deal is vassalage and the momentum is only moving away from you. I think they are both correct and being quite rational.0 -
We’ll be on our own. Ireland won’t be. It will be helped by both the EU and the US.Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
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Some of the Brexiteers seem to think it a badge of honour that Ireland is about to get caught in the crossfire of our grotesque national psychosis. Harming millions out of spite towards Leo Varadkar for being better at negotiation than us.Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
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In December.......Floater said:
Something tells me she will need to be prised outBarnesian said:
She won't.AndyJS said:"Theresa May 'will have to stand down' if she suffers heavy defeat in Brexit vote, Cabinet ministers suggest"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/14/theresa-may-will-asked-stand-suffers-heavy-defeat-brexit-vote/0 -
I̻ ̹̭̕h̘̫͓ḁ̱̦̬v͈͎e͈̱̯͚͎̱͕ ̘̗͔̺̼̯ͅb̳̖͎̙̩̜e̦͝e̜̠͕̠̫̤n̤͕̞̖̮̞ ̸c̦͓ͅͅr̫̼̲̜̭͙y̖̱̩̤̠s̲̺̣̗ͅt͈͉͎͔̙a҉̰̳͔͎͈̣͎l̢͍̟ ͙̫̺̗͎͡c͎̻̤̖͢ͅle͉ą̹͇͍̺ͅr͖ ̵͉̜̦͉t̷̤̩̫̱̫h̩a̦̭̳t ҉̣̞̜no͙͚͍̩ͅt̟͖̖̗ḫ̺͙̣͇͓͚i̛̳̘n̬̩g͖̤ ̡̪̖͎͙̬͖h̫͖̣̦̼̗ͅa͓̠̤ͅs̰ ͖̻̭̞c̭̞h̡a̖̻̻͖̭ͅͅn͉͍̻͞g҉e͎͕͚͕̥͇d̤kle4 said:Oh well, good luck to the nation tomorrow. An almost certain record defeat for the government, and then a new pantomime opens up, one in which hopefully more will admit that they only want remain, or no deal, and they can stop cocking about.
̣̬͖M͎̭͇̭̜̞y ̞͕͇̦d̡̤̻̱̩ȩ̹͈̣̟a̧͔͕̬̤̰̪l͙̬̟̗̜̀ ̨̩̩̗̘̥̜ì̖s͚̞̙̯ ҉̘t̮̞̜͓̜̩̠h͍̬e̤̻̖ b̷e̵͇̠s̷̩̹t̳̫̜ ̗̮̞̜̘͙̱͜d̳̤̺̱́e̢͚͖a̤͖̙̤̮͈͞l͡ ̨a̛̯n͙̥̹̮͍̰d͔ ̭̳th̪̝̖̼̺e̻ o̯̬̝n͔̝̣͎̠̮͠ḻ̺y͍̬̙̝̺̙̭ ̶̥d͏̙̭̗͚̥e͉͜al̛ ̰̬͉̳͖̥ͅa̹͔̹̱v̕a̟͉̰̦̣ì̮͕̲̬̠̖͈l͏̻̰a̢͎̥b͟ḽ̺̗̣͍͓e̝͉̳
̰̰͕̟̯̟I̙̞͓͙̭̥ ͍̟a͖̺̲͢m̳̻͎͘ ̰̫͚̤g̦͔͇̣̫̫̝ḙ͙̮͢ṭti̤̻͔̱n̰͡g̞̯̦̩͞ͅ ̴o̱̩̘̖̹̝n ̳̮̬̳̠w̢̪i̻͉̼̜͕͕͈t̶̹̙̱h͓͍̖̺͜ ̰͚͔͔̭t͚̲̳̱͚̩h̷̲e ͔̭͙ͅjo̮͚̩͖͚̖̫b̯͖̥͍̻ ̤͍̫̼̞͞o̢̺f̠̟ ̵̤̖̗de̯͇̦̤̝̫͔͢l͔͖̼̟̭̣͙i̭v̷͔͕̮̞͇ḛ͚͉̯̣r̪̘i̲̦̫̗͚͇̫n̸͚̯g̮ ͏̪͔B͕̟͉͖͉̗r͎̙̟̯̹̕e̤͟x̗̲̰̣i̺͙̪̱̘̝͝t̞̳̖͠0 -
The Buccaneers have a huge American shock coming for them if there is a No Deal. A Democrat-controlled House will see to that.grabcocque said:
Some of the Brexiteers seem to think it a badge of honour that Ireland is about to get caught in the crossfire of our grotesque national psychosis. Harming millions out of spite towards Leo Varadkar for being better at negotiation than us.Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
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Oooh, you can't say that. It's not that they want remain, honest. It's just they don't want the deal, or no-deal, or .......... anything else that involves leaving.kle4 said:Oh well, good luck to the nation tomorrow. An almost certain record defeat for the government, and then a new pantomime opens up, one in which hopefully more will admit that they only want remain .....
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Surely the harm from no deal comes straight away though, and if the Irish push us down that route we will already have realised some of the downside. So less of a reason to compromise?SouthamObserver said:
Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's a hell of a risky calculation if they are thinking that way.SouthamObserver said:
They’ll be stuck with a bad deal. A few weeks of No Deal will leave the UK in an even weaker position and so more likely to sign up to what the Irish actually want.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why? I'd have thought exactly the opposite.SouthamObserver said:
Probably not for long, though. For the Irish no deal really is better than a bad deal.Richard_Nabavi said:Oh, and all this palaver is largely caused by the Irish, who, in order to avoid at all costs the need for border checks if we can't reach a deal, have insisted that the EU should stick to a red line which is likely to mean no deal and therefore trigger border checks in a few weeks' time.
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The style suggests to me late Victorian rather than 1919. Who was the manufacturer? any identifying marks on the rear.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'm wondering if the mysterious black/white/red on the left is a late replacement for Russia and is meant to be a second version of the French flag. Note that it doesn't appear around the rim, which all the other five main flags do.TheWhiteRabbit said:Romania is absent the Entente Powers, I wonder if it's a misrendering of the design?
There also appear to be fewer stars on the US flag (possibly just a painting issue) , and curious to use the Japanese Naval flag rather than the national one.
Perhaps it is specific to one of the campaigns of the Boxer Rebellion, though that prostate eagle would be anodd symbol for China.
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I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
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The lack of capacity and infrastructure to support the sudden cut over from Dun Laoghaire to Cork. It's a major, major task that will take months if not yearsviewcode said:
I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
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Is it the Dutch flag?Richard_Nabavi said:
I'm wondering if the mysterious black/white/red on the left is a late replacement for Russia and is meant to be a second version of the French flag. Note that it doesn't appear around the rim, which all the other five main flags do.TheWhiteRabbit said:Romania is absent the Entente Powers, I wonder if it's a misrendering of the design?
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grabcocque said:
I̻ ̹̭̕h̘̫͓ḁ̱̦̬v͈͎e͈̱̯͚͎̱͕ ̘̗͔̺̼̯ͅb̳̖͎̙̩̜e̦͝e̜̠͕̠̫̤n̤͕̞̖̮̞ ̸c̦͓ͅͅr̫̼̲̜̭͙y̖̱̩̤̠s̲̺̣̗ͅt͈͉͎͔̙a҉̰̳͔͎͈̣͎l̢͍̟ ͙̫̺̗͎͡c͎̻̤̖͢ͅle͉ą̹͇͍̺ͅr͖ ̵͉̜̦͉t̷̤̩̫̱̫h̩a̦̭̳t ҉̣̞̜no͙͚͍̩ͅt̟͖̖̗ḫ̺͙̣͇͓͚i̛̳̘n̬̩g͖̤ ̡̪̖͎͙̬͖h̫͖̣̦̼̗ͅa͓̠̤ͅs̰ ͖̻̭̞c̭̞h̡a̖̻̻͖̭ͅͅn͉͍̻͞g҉e͎͕͚͕̥͇d̤kle4 said:Oh well, good luck to the nation tomorrow. An almost certain record defeat for the government, and then a new pantomime opens up, one in which hopefully more will admit that they only want remain, or no deal, and they can stop cocking about.
̣̬͖M͎̭͇̭̜̞y ̞͕͇̦d̡̤̻̱̩ȩ̹͈̣̟a̧͔͕̬̤̰̪l͙̬̟̗̜̀ ̨̩̩̗̘̥̜ì̖s͚̞̙̯ ҉̘t̮̞̜͓̜̩̠h͍̬e̤̻̖ b̷e̵͇̠s̷̩̹t̳̫̜ ̗̮̞̜̘͙̱͜d̳̤̺̱́e̢͚͖a̤͖̙̤̮͈͞l͡ ̨a̛̯n͙̥̹̮͍̰d͔ ̭̳th̪̝̖̼̺e̻ o̯̬̝n͔̝̣͎̠̮͠ḻ̺y͍̬̙̝̺̙̭ ̶̥d͏̙̭̗͚̥e͉͜al̛ ̰̬͉̳͖̥ͅa̹͔̹̱v̕a̟͉̰̦̣ì̮͕̲̬̠̖͈l͏̻̰a̢͎̥b͟ḽ̺̗̣͍͓e̝͉̳
̰̰͕̟̯̟I̙̞͓͙̭̥ ͍̟a͖̺̲͢m̳̻͎͘ ̰̫͚̤g̦͔͇̣̫̫̝ḙ͙̮͢ṭti̤̻͔̱n̰͡g̞̯̦̩͞ͅ ̴o̱̩̘̖̹̝n ̳̮̬̳̠w̢̪i̻͉̼̜͕͕͈t̶̹̙̱h͓͍̖̺͜ ̰͚͔͔̭t͚̲̳̱͚̩h̷̲e ͔̭͙ͅjo̮͚̩͖͚̖̫b̯͖̥͍̻ ̤͍̫̼̞͞o̢̺f̠̟ ̵̤̖̗de̯͇̦̤̝̫͔͢l͔͖̼̟̭̣͙i̭v̷͔͕̮̞͇ḛ͚͉̯̣r̪̘i̲̦̫̗͚͇̫n̸͚̯g̮ ͏̪͔B͕̟͉͖͉̗r͎̙̟̯̹̕e̤͟x̗̲̰̣i̺͙̪̱̘̝͝t̞̳̖͠
I still think the Black white red flag is a misrendering of BelgiumTheWhiteRabbit said:
Romania is absent the Entente Powers, I wonder if it's a misrendering of the design?Sunil_Prasannan said:
It's a World War 1 commemorative plate.kle4 said:
Trying to find it on this wiki list of timelines of national flags, no luck so far!Foxy said:
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.Sunil_Prasannan said:
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.Richard_Tyndall said:
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.Sunil_Prasannan said:
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.Foxy said:
Boxer rebellion? There is a German flag too.Benpointer said:Richard_Nabavi said:Bored with Brexit? Explain this instead:
https://twitter.com/RichardNabavi/status/1084937174003400706
First World War commemorative plate?
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_national_flags0 -
The other issue is the DUP may be acting rationally depending on what they really want. If they've realised how deeply in over their head they now are then the sequence May's Deal Dies > Soft/No Brexit and No Backstop may be their way out of the burning building.0
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If the UK goes to WTO terms with the EU then there will be tariffs in both directions, no?viewcode said:
I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
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That's an engineering problem. I acknowledge the size of the major task, but conceptually it's handleable: you just build stuff. It takes time and it costs money, but when it's done it's done.asjohnstone said:
The lack of capacity and infrastructure to support the sudden cut over from Dun Laoghaire to Cork. It's a major, major task that will take months if not yearsviewcode said:
I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
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Then there are the handful of Remain rebels who are acting rationally. PB's house bias towards complete nutters has ignored the pile up of serving Tory ministers who've said publiclly they'll quit if there is no deal. So if May's deal is now the *most* Brexity thing that can pass then killing it will lead to something less Brexity because no deal isn't happening.0
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No deal we have no choice day 1, it will be CET. Day two may be different. CET tariffs are circa 80% on beef, 45% on dairy, etc. The CEO of one of the major Irish food producers has said as soon as tariffs are confirmed, Irish Cheese production for UK markets moves instantly to the UK (80% of cheddar consumed in UK is made in Ireland).viewcode said:
I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
Then there is the land bridge, no deal the HGV;s can not use the roads so all Irish exports have to go via boat/plane. Ireland does not have the container or RORO port capacity to handle it. Then there is high tech no deal no data sharing agreement, so all those invoices from the tech companies in Ireland will stop.
The list of how Ireland is affected by no deal is pretty extensive.
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Don't forget to leave a glass of warm water and a slice of stale bread out for Theresa May since it's Meaningful Vote Eve.0 -
Corbyn offers soft BREXIT with no Backstop.Yellow_Submarine said:The other issue is the DUP may be acting rationally depending on what they really want. If they've realised how deeply in over their head they now are then the sequence May's Deal Dies > Soft/No Brexit and No Backstop may be their way out of the burning building.
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Yep, it is. MPs are rabbits caught in headlights. The government is no better. No Deal is the default. And there is no plan to prevent it with anything close to majority support.Yellow_Submarine said:Then there are the handful of Remain rebels who are acting rationally. PB's house bias towards complete nutters has ignored the pile up of serving Tory ministers who've said publiclly they'll quit if there is no deal. So if May's deal is now the *most* Brexity thing that can pass then killing it will lead to something less Brexity because no deal isn't happening.
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I don't know, but happy to accept your pointedmundintokyo said:
If the UK goes to WTO terms with the EU then there will be tariffs in both directions, no?viewcode said:
I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
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We don't know, for sure, but it certainly could happen. Many MP's are willing to risk getting what they most hate,SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it is. MPs are rabbits caught in headlights. The government is no better. No Deal is the default. And there is no plan to prevent it with anything close to majority support.Yellow_Submarine said:Then there are the handful of Remain rebels who are acting rationally. PB's house bias towards complete nutters has ignored the pile up of serving Tory ministers who've said publiclly they'll quit if there is no deal. So if May's deal is now the *most* Brexity thing that can pass then killing it will lead to something less Brexity because no deal isn't happening.
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Then there are the ERGers who realise voting down May's deal will only lead to soggier Brexit but think that's a good thing for accelerationist purposes. They are acting rationally as well.0
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[I'm not up on the lingo, but CET = Common European Tariff?] Tariffs are imposed by the country on imports coming in. So the CET would be imposed by Ireland on British imports coming into Ireland. They won't be imposed on Irish exports going into the UK. So if 80% of cheddar consumed in the UK is made in the Republic, then they won't be affected by the CET.ralphmalph said:No deal we have no choice day 1, it will be CET. Day two may be different. CET tariffs are circa 80% on beef, 45% on dairy, etc. The CEO of one of the major Irish food producers has said as soon as tariffs are confirmed, Irish Cheese production for UK markets moves instantly to the UK (80% of cheddar consumed in UK is made in Ireland).
Then there is the land bridge, no deal the HGV;s can not use the roads so all Irish exports have to go via boat/plane. Ireland does not have the container or RORO port capacity to handle it. Then there is high tech no deal no data sharing agreement, so all those invoices from the tech companies in Ireland will stop.
The list of how Ireland is affected by no deal is pretty extensive.
As for the land bridge, are you seriously suggesting Irish lorries won't be allowed to use UK roads? How do you suggest stopping them? Gunfire? Legislation?
As for container or RORO port capacity...it can be built.
As for "high tech no deal no data sharing agreement, so all those invoices from the tech companies in Ireland will stop."...I must confess I don't understand this point. Are you suggesting Irish companies can no longer invoice UK firms?
As for "The list of how Ireland is affected by no deal is pretty extensive.", I believe you. But IIUC the list is primarily engineering problems: they have to build new facilities in different places. Fine, they can do that. There's a difference between "difficult" and "too difficult", and things like building new facilities is the former. Unlike the ERG, I think the Irish are perfectly capable of building things.
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And tomorrow night, a slice of humble pie......grabcocque said:
Don't forget to leave a glass of warm water and a slice of stale bread out for Theresa May since it's Meaningful Vote Eve.0 -
And yet, Brussels will push them under the bus to keep their Deal pure......ralphmalph said:
No deal we have no choice day 1, it will be CET. Day two may be different. CET tariffs are circa 80% on beef, 45% on dairy, etc. The CEO of one of the major Irish food producers has said as soon as tariffs are confirmed, Irish Cheese production for UK markets moves instantly to the UK (80% of cheddar consumed in UK is made in Ireland).viewcode said:
I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
Then there is the land bridge, no deal the HGV;s can not use the roads so all Irish exports have to go via boat/plane. Ireland does not have the container or RORO port capacity to handle it. Then there is high tech no deal no data sharing agreement, so all those invoices from the tech companies in Ireland will stop.
The list of how Ireland is affected by no deal is pretty extensive.0 -
Not sure what would happen, it could be a stirring Euro-patriotic reverse Berlin airlift.MarqueeMark said:
And yet, Brussels will push them under the bus to keep their Deal pure......0 -
I still believe in the Father of the House.grabcocque said:
Don't forget to leave a glass of warm water and a slice of stale bread out for Theresa May since it's Meaningful Vote Eve.0 -
If I understand correctly, it is the Irish who want the backstop.MarqueeMark said:
And yet, Brussels will push them under the bus to keep their Deal pure......ralphmalph said:
No deal we have no choice day 1, it will be CET. Day two may be different. CET tariffs are circa 80% on beef, 45% on dairy, etc. The CEO of one of the major Irish food producers has said as soon as tariffs are confirmed, Irish Cheese production for UK markets moves instantly to the UK (80% of cheddar consumed in UK is made in Ireland).viewcode said:
I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
Then there is the land bridge, no deal the HGV;s can not use the roads so all Irish exports have to go via boat/plane. Ireland does not have the container or RORO port capacity to handle it. Then there is high tech no deal no data sharing agreement, so all those invoices from the tech companies in Ireland will stop.
The list of how Ireland is affected by no deal is pretty extensive.0 -
Britain and Ireland both claim wish to avoid a return to a hard border. Britain keeps refusing any attempts to guarantee it, whilst the EU shows solidarity with its member.viewcode said:
If I understand correctly, it is the Irish who want the backstop.MarqueeMark said:
And yet, Brussels will push them under the bus to keep their Deal pure......
I think we're the baddies here, not they.
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Then there are the ERGers who know they are acting irrationally but just don't care as they don't want to have on record they voted for vassal state as they know how unpopular it will become once it's the Status Quo.
Put simply if there were any demand for May's brand of weary, incrementalist realpolitik we'd have voted Remain in the first place or probably never even have held the referendum.0 -
Agreed. Murray isn't even one of the top 10 tennis players of the modern era - all the below would rank absolutely MILES ahead of him (in chronological order):FrancisUrquhart said:Andy Murray: Why I say he's Britain's greatest sportsman
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-46838567
God this is even more OTT....
Yes he was briefly ranked #1, but nobody is going to look back and say he was better than the big three.
In comparison, Faldo, twice as many majors, world #1 for 2 years straight. Redgrave greatest ever Olympian, etc etc etc. All those listed against him are indisputably the world best at their peak, Murray has always been behind the big three by varying amounts.
Connors, Borg, McEnroe, Becker, Edberg, Sampras, Agassi, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic.
How on earth can he be anywhere near Britain's greatest sportsman when he has so many people miles ahead of him?
In contrast there are many British sportsman who have been absolutely leading figures in their sports.0 -
Yes, remarkable really. YouGov are the only pollster in the past two months to have shown the Tories ahead of Labour.justin124 said:
Or 3 points ahead!Floater said:So - a dysfunctional government and brexit chaos......
Yet Labour are 6 points behind
Says it all really.
Guess YouGov could be right and all the others wrong, but seems very strange.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election0 -
Which year?MarqueeMark said:
In December.......Floater said:
Something tells me she will need to be prised outBarnesian said:
She won't.AndyJS said:"Theresa May 'will have to stand down' if she suffers heavy defeat in Brexit vote, Cabinet ministers suggest"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/14/theresa-may-will-asked-stand-suffers-heavy-defeat-brexit-vote/
innocent face
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So, who said the shutdown would have an impact on the White House's catering?!
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What the Irish want is no change to trade at all, nothing including any electronic form filling, this can only basically be achieved by the UK remaining in the EU and that is the Irish position.viewcode said:
If I understand correctly, it is the Irish who want the backstop.MarqueeMark said:
And yet, Brussels will push them under the bus to keep their Deal pure......ralphmalph said:
No deal we have no choice day 1, it will be CET. Day two may be different. CET tariffs are circa 80% on beef, 45% on dairy, etc. The CEO of one of the major Irish food producers has said as soon as tariffs are confirmed, Irish Cheese production for UK markets moves instantly to the UK (80% of cheddar consumed in UK is made in Ireland).viewcode said:
I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
Then there is the land bridge, no deal the HGV;s can not use the roads so all Irish exports have to go via boat/plane. Ireland does not have the container or RORO port capacity to handle it. Then there is high tech no deal no data sharing agreement, so all those invoices from the tech companies in Ireland will stop.
The list of how Ireland is affected by no deal is pretty extensive.
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We can be 100% sure that May's deal is not going to pass by March 29th.
So the 21% betting odds that Brexit will happen by March 29th is saying that there is a 21% chance of a No Deal Brexit, since that is the default to May's deal0 -
Massive international publicity and associated EU/US wide ' Buy Irish ' campaigns as well boycotts of UK agricultural products. Nothing would immeadiately unite transatlantic popular outrage than the Brits driving Irish farmers into penury. All campaign outlines will already be drafted and in draws somewhere.edmundintokyo said:
Not sure what would happen, it could be a stirring Euro-patriotic reverse Berlin airlift.MarqueeMark said:
And yet, Brussels will push them under the bus to keep their Deal pure......0 -
Scotland's greatest sportsman?MikeL said:
Agreed. Murray isn't even one of the top 10 tennis players of the modern era - all the below would rank absolutely MILES ahead of him (in chronological order):FrancisUrquhart said:Andy Murray: Why I say he's Britain's greatest sportsman
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-46838567
God this is even more OTT....
Yes he was briefly ranked #1, but nobody is going to look back and say he was better than the big three.
In comparison, Faldo, twice as many majors, world #1 for 2 years straight. Redgrave greatest ever Olympian, etc etc etc. All those listed against him are indisputably the world best at their peak, Murray has always been behind the big three by varying amounts.
Connors, Borg, McEnroe, Becker, Edberg, Sampras, Agassi, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic.
How on earth can he be anywhere near Britain's greatest sportsman when he has so many people miles ahead of him?
In contrast there are many British sportsman who have been absolutely leading figures in their sports.0 -
Well, in truth, we're not baddies - Brexiteers who either lied or were ignorant of the issue, or professed to believe in a soft Brexit that was the only really compatible solution in the short to medium term, were.grabcocque said:
Britain and Ireland both claim wish to avoid a return to a hard border. Britain keeps refusing any attempts to guarantee it, whilst the EU shows solidarity with its member.viewcode said:
If I understand correctly, it is the Irish who want the backstop.MarqueeMark said:
And yet, Brussels will push them under the bus to keep their Deal pure......
I think we're the baddies here, not they.0 -
Fair pointralphmalph said:
What the Irish want is no change to trade at all, nothing including any electronic form filling, this can only basically be achieved by the UK remaining in the EU and that is the Irish position.viewcode said:
If I understand correctly, it is the Irish who want the backstop.MarqueeMark said:
And yet, Brussels will push them under the bus to keep their Deal pure......ralphmalph said:
No deal we have no choice day 1, it will be CET. Day two may be different. CET tariffs are circa 80% on beef, 45% on dairy, etc. The CEO of one of the major Irish food producers has said as soon as tariffs are confirmed, Irish Cheese production for UK markets moves instantly to the UK (80% of cheddar consumed in UK is made in Ireland).viewcode said:
I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
Then there is the land bridge, no deal the HGV;s can not use the roads so all Irish exports have to go via boat/plane. Ireland does not have the container or RORO port capacity to handle it. Then there is high tech no deal no data sharing agreement, so all those invoices from the tech companies in Ireland will stop.
The list of how Ireland is affected by no deal is pretty extensive.0 -
Let's not exaggerate, the odds of May's deal passing by then aren't great, but they're better than 0%.David_Evershed said:We can be 100% sure that May's deal is not going to pass by March 29th.
So the 21% betting odds that Brexit will happen by March 29th is saying that there is a 21% chance of a No Deal Brexit, since that is the default to May's deal0 -
Mostly 3% tarriffs I believe but a bigger problem is country of origin checks and other paperwork holding things up.edmundintokyo said:
If the UK goes to WTO terms with the EU then there will be tariffs in both directions, no?viewcode said:
I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
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It's a very big engineering problem and if they'd started two years ago it might have been possible, but they didn't.viewcode said:
That's an engineering problem. I acknowledge the size of the major task, but conceptually it's handleable: you just build stuff. It takes time and it costs money, but when it's done it's done.asjohnstone said:
The lack of capacity and infrastructure to support the sudden cut over from Dun Laoghaire to Cork. It's a major, major task that will take months if not yearsviewcode said:
I asked this question earlier, and I don't think anybody answered. Why is "no deal" bad for Ireland? We won't be imposing tariffs on their inports (unless I've missed something?). I assume they'll put off the hard border as long as they can but even if they do have to impose one, they get most of their UK imports from GB not NI, so the hit will be lessened. They can route traffic via the Cork ferries if they can't use GB as a land bridge due to Dover bottlenecking. So whilst I can see it as inconvenient and psychologically upsetting, the economic implications should be handleable. What have I missed?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I think Ireland is likely to be even worse hit than us, although it's a proposition which neither country should rationally test.SouthamObserver said:Everyone is making risky calculations. But everyone knows there will be one country that is harmed more by a No Deal than Ireland.
A no deal Brexit will bring economic carnage to Ireland, which frankly I'm entirely ok with.
Why Mrs May isn't holding a gun to the Irish head as a negotiating tactic escapes me; a "Give us what we need or the Paddies get it" Brexit.0 -
Alex Ferguson, Kenny Dalglish, Bill Shankly, Matt Busby, Chris Hoy, Jackie Stewart and a few others might have something to say about that...depending on if you class the likes of F1, snooker, etc as a sport.David_Evershed said:
Scotland's greatest sportsman?MikeL said:
Agreed. Murray isn't even one of the top 10 tennis players of the modern era - all the below would rank absolutely MILES ahead of him (in chronological order):FrancisUrquhart said:Andy Murray: Why I say he's Britain's greatest sportsman
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-46838567
God this is even more OTT....
Yes he was briefly ranked #1, but nobody is going to look back and say he was better than the big three.
In comparison, Faldo, twice as many majors, world #1 for 2 years straight. Redgrave greatest ever Olympian, etc etc etc. All those listed against him are indisputably the world best at their peak, Murray has always been behind the big three by varying amounts.
Connors, Borg, McEnroe, Becker, Edberg, Sampras, Agassi, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic.
How on earth can he be anywhere near Britain's greatest sportsman when he has so many people miles ahead of him?
In contrast there are many British sportsman who have been absolutely leading figures in their sports.0
