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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the eve of the big vote political punters now make it 79% that the UK won’t leave the EU by March 29th
Chart from Betdata.io showing trend on what is currently the busiest political market on the Betfair Exchange.
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Comments
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Following EU orders?0
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The EU would like a second referendum, as is usual with a rebellion from the plebs. For that, an extension is guaranteed. Jezza is toast if he doesn't agree. He will reluctantly agree because of the intransigence of the Tories. You don't need to call me Nostradamus, it was always the end-game from day one.0
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Yep, seems about right. Many of the plan B's require a delay even if we do not end up remaining. What a farce. But at least, finally, we will be considering some other votes, even if technically the deal options is not entirely dead tomorrow (though to any realistic extent it will be).0
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"Three days" really means Monday doesn't it, as our part time politicians take a three day weekend since they've nothing urgent to discuss as the moment right?
Do we know roughly what time tomorrow the vote/result will be?0 -
Third. Labour sure does love that ol' fence.0
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If I had a betting bank I would put some on us leaving on March 29th.
My thinking is that May is determined to see this through and that any alternative to that exit date requires forcing her from office, which probably requires a cross-party backbench rebellion to form a government of national unity. Which is unlikely.0 -
Well it wasn't guaranteed, but yes that has to be a very likely way it goes. He's still shoring up leave voters with positive noises, but if parliament can get past a recalcitrant government, so can Labour get past a recalcitrant leaderCD13 said:The EU would like a second referendum, as is usual with a rebellion from the plebs. For that, an extension is guaranteed. Jezza is toast if he doesn't agree. He will reluctantly agree because of the intransigence of the Tories. You don't need to call me Nostradamus, it was always the end-game from day one.
So that's May's target - lose by less than 200. 150 if she does very well.Barnesian said:Favourite band on Betfair has come down to 200-209 supporters of the Deal which implies a majority of around 205 against.
That's astoundingly crap.
Like Wolves putting up a fight against City, come on for heaven's sake!0 -
79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought. Only Boles seems to have a plan and that plan won’t work.
I wouldn’t have thought Corbyn had any interest in a second referendum unless it was going to give up victory in the general election he craves and which is really the only thing he cares about right now. If May loses by over 100 tomorrow he might get it.0 -
Late.Philip_Thompson said:"Three days" really means Monday doesn't it, as our part time politicians take a three day weekend since they've nothing urgent to discuss as the moment right?
Do we know roughly what time tomorrow the vote/result will be?
And they need to go home and relax - not like they'll be thinking of other things.
Although in seriousness sometimes people act like any impact on family life for politicians is unfair, but that's the job to some degree. It's a public service, there will be costs when the nation calls. But rough on Siddiq putting off her C-section though0 -
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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In a deal v Remain vote, the Leave/deal campaign would be principally Tories and the Remain campaign principally Labour (and the other parties). Surely the leaders of the two large parties couldn't survive on the 'wrong' (in relation to their base) side of the issue? May (if not replaced) would obviously back her deal; Corbyn is in a very tight spot.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought. Only Boles seems to have a plan and that plan won’t work.
I wouldn’t have thought Corbyn had any interest in a second referendum unless it was going to give up victory in the general election he craves and which is really the only thing he cares about right now. If May loses by over 100 tomorrow he might get it.0 -
kle4 said:
Late.Philip_Thompson said:"Three days" really means Monday doesn't it, as our part time politicians take a three day weekend since they've nothing urgent to discuss as the moment right?
Do we know roughly what time tomorrow the vote/result will be?
And they need to go home and relax - not like they'll be thinking of other things.
Although in seriousness sometimes people act like any impact on family life for politicians is unfair, but that's the job to some degree. It's a public service, there will be costs when the nation calls. But rough on Siddiq putting off her C-section though
Remember this:
https://news.sky.com/story/tulip-siddiq-apologises-for-barb-at-pregnant-journalist-11149060
At the end of the interview, Ms Siddiq told pregnant producer Daisy Ayliffe: "Thanks for coming Daisy, hope you have a great birth, because child labour is hard! See you!"
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Corbyn would declare a free vote and then do the bare minimum, safe knowing virtually everyone in Labour would campaign for Remain but he had not alienated leavers.IanB2 said:
In a deal v Remain vote, the Leave/deal campaign would be principally Tories and the Remain campaign principally Labour (and the other parties). Surely the leaders of the two large parties couldn't survive on the 'wrong' (in relation to their base) side of the issue?AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought. Only Boles seems to have a plan and that plan won’t work.
I wouldn’t have thought Corbyn had any interest in a second referendum unless it was going to give up victory in the general election he craves and which is really the only thing he cares about right now. If May loses by over 100 tomorrow he might get it.0 -
Leaving on time (29/3) is drifting in the betting BUT that we do leave is coming in.
The view emerging as favourite is that the deal eventually passes but we require an article 50 extension in order to implement it.
Hate to agree with the consensus but I too regard this as the most likely outcome.0 -
FPT:
Most, not all. All that needs to happen is for the Hard Remainer Tories to jump ship and vote a new Government into office.Philip_Thompson said:
The problem is that most of the MPs who are terrified of No Deal and who would probably like to stay in the EU are in the opposition benches - and it would take a government to stop Brexit.Black_Rook said:
SO...TheScreamingEagles said:
Thinking about the chances I make itBlack_Rook said:
More likely No Brexit...murali_s said:Evening folks!
No Brexit or No Deal - what will it be?
https://twitter.com/hilarybennmp/status/1084859849735852032
https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1084880122040254470
https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1084881144934473729
The more May digs her heels in, the more likely that some kind of ramshackle Parliamentary coalition will be patched together by desperate pro-EU MPs to stop Brexit, one would've thought.
Of course, No Deal is the current default position, and it's still possible if no majority can be assembled to defeat May once and for all.
60% No Deal Brexit
15% A Deal is agreed (be it Mrs May’s deal or a variation thereof) and Parliament accepts it.
25% No Brexit at the end of March, either through extension/revocation of A50 or a new plebiscite.
Most MPs hate the Deal (liable to be defeated by a landslide tomorrow)
Most MPs are terrified of No Deal
Most MPs would probably like to stay in the EU
And yet you reckon it's very likely that No Deal happens anyway - presumably because, even though they think it's disastrous, they're incapable of doing anything else?
If that's how it pans out, would this qualify as the most useless Parliament ever?
Which, if Brexit is the monumental disaster they believe it to be, AND May won't budge an inch, they'll presumably be willing to do?
In the national interest, of course.0 -
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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The unrelenting pressure of the leadership of both main parties being committed to delivering it?AmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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I think Deal Vs Remain is the only one that could get through parliamentAmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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If they care about it that much of course they should do that. Perfectly honourable position to take. A 1970s throwback who has to deal with the vagaries of parliament should not change that, even if the range of risk he presents is pretty bad.Black_Rook said:FPT:
Most, not all. All that needs to happen is for the Hard Remainer Tories to jump ship and vote a new Government into office.Philip_Thompson said:
The problem is that most of the MPs who are terrified of No Deal and who would probably like to stay in the EU are in the opposition benches - and it would take a government to stop Brexit.Black_Rook said:
SO...TheScreamingEagles said:
Thinking about the chances I make itBlack_Rook said:
More likely No Brexit...murali_s said:Evening folks!
No Brexit or No Deal - what will it be?
https://twitter.com/hilarybennmp/status/1084859849735852032
https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1084880122040254470
https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1084881144934473729
The more May digs her heels in, the more likely that some kind of ramshackle Parliamentary coalition will be patched together by desperate pro-EU MPs to stop Brexit, one would've thought.
Of course, No Deal is the current default position, and it's still possible if no majority can be assembled to defeat May once and for all.
60% No Deal Brexit
15% A Deal is agreed (be it Mrs May’s deal or a variation thereof) and Parliament accepts it.
25% No Brexit at the end of March, either through extension/revocation of A50 or a new plebiscite.
Most MPs hate the Deal (liable to be defeated by a landslide tomorrow)
Most MPs are terrified of No Deal
Most MPs would probably like to stay in the EU
And yet you reckon it's very likely that No Deal happens anyway - presumably because, even though they think it's disastrous, they're incapable of doing anything else?
If that's how it pans out, would this qualify as the most useless Parliament ever?
Which, if Brexit is the monumental disaster they believe it to be, AND May won't budge an inch, they'll presumably be willing to do?
In the national interest, of course.0 -
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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Sucks, but no good options left anymore.AmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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They may actually have nothing to lose, if the Tory headbanger membership comes for them anywaykle4 said:
If they care about it that much of course they should do that. Perfectly honourable position to take. A 1970s throwback who has to deal with the vagaries of parliament should not change that, even if the range of risk he presents is pretty bad.Black_Rook said:FPT:
Most, not all. All that needs to happen is for the Hard Remainer Tories to jump ship and vote a new Government into office.Philip_Thompson said:
The problem is that most of the MPs who are terrified of No Deal and who would probably like to stay in the EU are in the opposition benches - and it would take a government to stop Brexit.Black_Rook said:
SO...TheScreamingEagles said:
Thinking about the chances I make itBlack_Rook said:
More likely No Brexit...murali_s said:Evening folks!
No Brexit or No Deal - what will it be?
https://twitter.com/hilarybennmp/status/1084859849735852032
https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1084880122040254470
https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1084881144934473729
The more May digs her heels in, the more likely that some kind of ramshackle Parliamentary coalition will be patched together by desperate pro-EU MPs to stop Brexit, one would've thought.
Of course, No Deal is the current default position, and it's still possible if no majority can be assembled to defeat May once and for all.
60% No Deal Brexit
15% A Deal is agreed (be it Mrs May’s deal or a variation thereof) and Parliament accepts it.
25% No Brexit at the end of March, either through extension/revocation of A50 or a new plebiscite.
Most MPs hate the Deal (liable to be defeated by a landslide tomorrow)
Most MPs are terrified of No Deal
Most MPs would probably like to stay in the EU
And yet you reckon it's very likely that No Deal happens anyway - presumably because, even though they think it's disastrous, they're incapable of doing anything else?
If that's how it pans out, would this qualify as the most useless Parliament ever?
Which, if Brexit is the monumental disaster they believe it to be, AND May won't budge an inch, they'll presumably be willing to do?
In the national interest, of course.0 -
The unrelenting pressure of 2 years attacking May’s negotiations, 2 years of deriding the alternatives and 2 years of campaigning for the original decision.williamglenn said:
The unrelenting pressure of the leadership of both main parties being committed to delivering it?AmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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Well she's not meant to be a very nice person, though I can have some level of sympathy.ThomasNashe said:kle4 said:
Late.Philip_Thompson said:"Three days" really means Monday doesn't it, as our part time politicians take a three day weekend since they've nothing urgent to discuss as the moment right?
Do we know roughly what time tomorrow the vote/result will be?
And they need to go home and relax - not like they'll be thinking of other things.
Although in seriousness sometimes people act like any impact on family life for politicians is unfair, but that's the job to some degree. It's a public service, there will be costs when the nation calls. But rough on Siddiq putting off her C-section though
Remember this:
https://news.sky.com/story/tulip-siddiq-apologises-for-barb-at-pregnant-journalist-11149060
At the end of the interview, Ms Siddiq told pregnant producer Daisy Ayliffe: "Thanks for coming Daisy, hope you have a great birth, because child labour is hard! See you!"0 -
Though I'm definitely a remainer, I'd quite possibly vote for the deal in a referendum, especially if it looks as though the result is going to be close. Very much depends on the nature of the debate. Ultimately, the restoration of civility and a sense of shared values is probably worth more than EU membership.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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Yes, 'End the chaos' is not a bad line (better than people's vote) albeit still plenty superficial.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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Agreed - hence my original comment.kle4 said:
Sucks, but no good options left anymore.AmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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Labour has more positions on Brexit than can be counted.
Different people say different things on Brexit in that party nearly daily
Lets be honest Corbyn wants to leave and he wants power - everything else is noise.0 -
Betfair is indicating a 76% chance that we will leave sometime before 2022.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought. Only Boles seems to have a plan and that plan won’t work.
I wouldn’t have thought Corbyn had any interest in a second referendum unless it was going to give up victory in the general election he craves and which is really the only thing he cares about right now. If May loses by over 100 tomorrow he might get it.
22% by 29 March
22% Apr-Jun 2019
19% July - Dec 2019
9% in 2020 or 2021
24% later or never.
EDIT: It doesn't add to 100% because of the over round but it shows the general shape of it.0 -
also known as a stitch up.Stereotomy said:
I think Deal Vs Remain is the only one that could get through parliamentAmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
I'm sure voters will forgive them.....0 -
kinabalu said:
Leaving on time (29/3) is drifting in the betting BUT that we do leave is coming in.
The view emerging as favourite is that the deal eventually passes but we require an article 50 extension in order to implement it.
Hate to agree with the consensus but I too regard this as the most likely outcome.
Broadly agree. JC's desire to leave in circumstances where he is not to blame for leaving but stands a chance of shaping the post Brexit future in a socialist direction should not be underestimated. If JC were remotely serious about Remaining he would not have equivocated to this extent. TM wants to leave out of electoral principle, and JC wants to leave out of political conviction of long standing. The two leaders agree about far more than they are letting on.
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Possibly, but it would be a waste of time. Remain have already lost once and no one other than May and her payroll vote wants her deal. Any second referendum needs Labour to support it and Corbyn isn’t interested.Stereotomy said:
I think Deal Vs Remain is the only one that could get through parliamentAmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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Surely more positions than the karma sutra....Floater said:Labour has more positions on Brexit than can be counted.
Different people say different things on Brexit in that party nearly daily
Lets be honest Corbyn wants to leave and he wants power - everything else is noise.0 -
More fundamentally, there is no other credible and acceptable way to leave on offer, and if people don't want it, clearly we should stay.Stereotomy said:
I think Deal Vs Remain is the only one that could get through parliamentAmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
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ps - I loved the "no food" helpful leak today.
no food, none at all?
Not even remotely plausible is it.
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Well they have to vote for one of the parties, unless you think UKIP will win a majority if a deal/remain referendum is passed. Some of the parties will be rewarded.Floater said:
also known as a stitch up.Stereotomy said:
I think Deal Vs Remain is the only one that could get through parliamentAmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
I'm sure voters will forgive them.....0 -
I did nearly use that line - but too much like TSE for my liking ;-)FrancisUrquhart said:
Surely more positions than the karma sutra....Floater said:Labour has more positions on Brexit than can be counted.
Different people say different things on Brexit in that party nearly daily
Lets be honest Corbyn wants to leave and he wants power - everything else is noise.0 -
A shame that neither will get what they want!algarkirk said:kinabalu said:Leaving on time (29/3) is drifting in the betting BUT that we do leave is coming in.
The view emerging as favourite is that the deal eventually passes but we require an article 50 extension in order to implement it.
Hate to agree with the consensus but I too regard this as the most likely outcome.
Broadly agree. JC's desire to leave in circumstances where he is not to blame for leaving but stands a chance of shaping the post Brexit future in a socialist direction should not be underestimated. If JC were remotely serious about Remaining he would not have equivocated to this extent. TM wants to leave out of electoral principle, and JC wants to leave out of political conviction of long standing. The two leaders agree about far more than they are letting on.0 -
Of course everything will remain static and nothing will change.........kle4 said:
Well they have to vote for one of the parties, unless you think UKIP will win a majority if a deal/remain referendum is passed. Some of the parties will be rewarded.Floater said:
also known as a stitch up.Stereotomy said:
I think Deal Vs Remain is the only one that could get through parliamentAmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
I'm sure voters will forgive them.....0 -
I think if that referendum was on offer there'd be a substantial Labour vote in favour, whether Corbyn wanted it or not. SNP, Lib Dems and Greens too. Not sure about DUP but they largely seem willing to go along with May except when it breaks an ironclad red line. With all of that, I think she'd be able to get enough of her own party to get it over the line.AmpfieldAndy said:
Possibly, but it would be a waste of time. Remain have already lost once and no one other than May and her payroll vote wants her deal. Any second referendum needs Labour to support it and Corbyn isn’t interested.Stereotomy said:
I think Deal Vs Remain is the only one that could get through parliamentAmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
I think adding no deal as a third option loses more of those people than it gains rebels0 -
Doesn't matter. If there is a second referendum the only question that matters will be:AmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
How many times will they make us vote until we give the "right" answer?0 -
Sick of all the brexit nonsense & the politicians showing how useless they are.
Really sick of the losers second time around vote being called a "People's Vote".0 -
If you think a Remain vote would cause the arguments to go away, you're kidding yourself. I very much fear that the Eurosceptic genie is not only out of its lamp but is out to stay. It's a far larger and far more electorally formidable force than Scottish nationalism, and look at the chaos that caused even following a substantial defeat.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
A Referendum is unlikely, a Remain vote is less likely, but the political realities are unfortunately changing in a negative way even if they do happen.0 -
There will be churn. But it will end up being Tories, Labour, LDs and SNP and the NI lot with the seats, so 'parliament' being forgiven for pushing through a remain/deal referendum is a given.Floater said:
Of course everything will remain static and nothing will change.........kle4 said:
Well they have to vote for one of the parties, unless you think UKIP will win a majority if a deal/remain referendum is passed. Some of the parties will be rewarded.Floater said:
also known as a stitch up.Stereotomy said:
I think Deal Vs Remain is the only one that could get through parliamentAmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
I'm sure voters will forgive them.....0 -
Nah, they both just care about votes. Corbyn's aversion to capitalism and May's aversion to immigrants are distant secondsalgarkirk said:kinabalu said:Leaving on time (29/3) is drifting in the betting BUT that we do leave is coming in.
The view emerging as favourite is that the deal eventually passes but we require an article 50 extension in order to implement it.
Hate to agree with the consensus but I too regard this as the most likely outcome.
Broadly agree. JC's desire to leave in circumstances where he is not to blame for leaving but stands a chance of shaping the post Brexit future in a socialist direction should not be underestimated. If JC were remotely serious about Remaining he would not have equivocated to this extent. TM wants to leave out of electoral principle, and JC wants to leave out of political conviction of long standing. The two leaders agree about far more than they are letting on.0 -
People got the right answer last time when they rejected Cameron's deal that would leave us perpetually half-out. They knew that the only way to fulfil our manifest European destiny was to vote for a break with the status quo.kyf_100 said:
Doesn't matter. If there is a second referendum the only question that matters will be:AmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
How many times will they make us vote until we give the "right" answer?0 -
I think perhaps you are stretching what people knew that result would lead to.williamglenn said:
People got the right answer last time when they rejected Cameron's deal that would leave us perpetually half-out. They knew that the only way to fulfil our manifest European destiny was to vote for a break with the status quo.kyf_100 said:
Doesn't matter. If there is a second referendum the only question that matters will be:AmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
How many times will they make us vote until we give the "right" answer?0 -
Just think - in an infinite multiverse, some universe somewhere must have May's deal winning. Presumably that's the one she's hoping to quantum leap home to tomorrow night0
-
That’s fair given how often the EU have used that tactic in the past. I am sure there are plenty of Remainers in the “as often as it takes” frame of mindkyf_100 said:
Doesn't matter. If there is a second referendum the only question that matters will be:AmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
How many times will they make us vote until we give the "right" answer?0 -
There is no substitute for a loo roll - though when I were a lad in Oldham, we used the Radio Times torn into sheets, with a hole punched through, hanging on a string. My job were to remove the staples. Seriously.Barnesian said:
It's the no loo rolls that is more worrying.Floater said:ps - I loved the "no food" helpful leak today.
no food, none at all?
Not even remotely plausible is it.0 -
That's like Tony Benn'sargument that the 1983 election was the largest ever vote for socialism.williamglenn said:
People got the right answer last time when they rejected Cameron's deal that would leave us perpetually half-out. They knew that the only way to fulfil our manifest European destiny was to vote for a break with the status quo.kyf_100 said:
Doesn't matter. If there is a second referendum the only question that matters will be:AmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
How many times will they make us vote until we give the "right" answer?0 -
kle4 said:
A shame that neither will get what they want!algarkirk said:kinabalu said:Leaving on time (29/3) is drifting in the betting BUT that we do leave is coming in.
The view emerging as favourite is that the deal eventually passes but we require an article 50 extension in order to implement it.
Hate to agree with the consensus but I too regard this as the most likely outcome.
Broadly agree. JC's desire to leave in circumstances where he is not to blame for leaving but stands a chance of shaping the post Brexit future in a socialist direction should not be underestimated. If JC were remotely serious about Remaining he would not have equivocated to this extent. TM wants to leave out of electoral principle, and JC wants to leave out of political conviction of long standing. The two leaders agree about far more than they are letting on.
They will both get leave in due course. Which is what they want. Anything after that is more guesswork than prediction. My guess is that JC won't get the chance to inaugurate his Venezuelan utopia, and that TM will see someone else lead on the final agreement. I'm afraid even guesswork fails after that.
0 -
I feel a series of “Yorkshire man” posts incoming....Barnesian said:
There is no substitute for a loo roll - though when I were a lad in Oldham, we used the Radio Times torn into sheets, with a hole punched through, hanging on a string. My job were to remove the staples. Seriously.Barnesian said:
It's the no loo rolls that is more worrying.Floater said:ps - I loved the "no food" helpful leak today.
no food, none at all?
Not even remotely plausible is it.0 -
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
0 -
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
0 -
Unless his hand is forced. Should the Conservative Hard Remainers break away and offer to prop Corbyn up then he would be forced to attempt his unicorn renegotiation strategy - which would almost certainly result either in a flat rejection of further talks by the EU27 (i.e. here's the Withdrawal Agreement, take it or leave it,) or an Andrex Soft Brexit - and No Deal would become an impossibility. Parliament would then either revoke, vote a WA straight through, or call a Deal/Remain referendum - most likely the latter in those circumstances.AmpfieldAndy said:
Possibly, but it would be a waste of time. Remain have already lost once and no one other than May and her payroll vote wants her deal. Any second referendum needs Labour to support it and Corbyn isn’t interested.Stereotomy said:
I think Deal Vs Remain is the only one that could get through parliamentAmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
Labour's membership as well as the PLP are overwhelmingly pro-EU: if he tried to face both down at the same time in pursuit of anything resembling a Hard Brexit then the Labour Party would implode.0 -
If Europe is the hill they wish to die on, they ought.kle4 said:
If they care about it that much of course they should do that. Perfectly honourable position to take. A 1970s throwback who has to deal with the vagaries of parliament should not change that, even if the range of risk he presents is pretty bad.Black_Rook said:FPT:
Most, not all. All that needs to happen is for the Hard Remainer Tories to jump ship and vote a new Government into office.Philip_Thompson said:
The problem is that most of the MPs who are terrified of No Deal and who would probably like to stay in the EU are in the opposition benches - and it would take a government to stop Brexit.Black_Rook said:
SO...TheScreamingEagles said:
Thinking about the chances I make itBlack_Rook said:
More likely No Brexit...murali_s said:Evening folks!
No Brexit or No Deal - what will it be?
https://twitter.com/hilarybennmp/status/1084859849735852032
https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1084880122040254470
https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1084881144934473729
The more May digs her heels in, the more likely that some kind of ramshackle Parliamentary coalition will be patched together by desperate pro-EU MPs to stop Brexit, one would've thought.
Of course, No Deal is the current default position, and it's still possible if no majority can be assembled to defeat May once and for all.
60% No Deal Brexit
15% A Deal is agreed (be it Mrs May’s deal or a variation thereof) and Parliament accepts it.
25% No Brexit at the end of March, either through extension/revocation of A50 or a new plebiscite.
Most MPs hate the Deal (liable to be defeated by a landslide tomorrow)
Most MPs are terrified of No Deal
Most MPs would probably like to stay in the EU
And yet you reckon it's very likely that No Deal happens anyway - presumably because, even though they think it's disastrous, they're incapable of doing anything else?
If that's how it pans out, would this qualify as the most useless Parliament ever?
Which, if Brexit is the monumental disaster they believe it to be, AND May won't budge an inch, they'll presumably be willing to do?
In the national interest, of course.0 -
Make Britain Sane Again!kle4 said:
Yes, 'End the chaos' is not a bad line (better than people's vote) albeit still plenty superficial.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
0 -
Oh, yes it would. Mostly. If we can get off this nightmare rollercoaster, public appetite for getting on again will be very low indeed. The Brexit ultras will go back to trying to strike up random conversations with reluctant people on the bus.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
0 -
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.
0 -
What, you mean it would be a blatant lie used to swing opinion in a referendum? Well, there's a novelty...Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
0 -
All fine slogans...except so many leave supporters have made clear they despise the deal. I'm to believe, when there's been so little switching from remain to leave or leave to remain, that leave will be more motivated in a scenario which involves a deal so many despise?kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.0 -
Indeed. This is the Remainer delusion; the idea that simply by winning a referendum they would have resolved anything at all. The public will have seen the contempt in which they are held by Parliament and that 50% (+/- 2 or 3 %) odd who still want to Leave would have no qualms about using every possible tactic to make sure this is not the end.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
I said on here before the last referendum that if Leave lost I would not campaign for another vote - just sit back and enjoy the increasing chaos that would result from a reluctant Remain which the EU would obviously take as a sign of complete acquiescence to their plans. I would have loved the 'I told you so' opportunities and the increasing frustration and anger on both sides.
Now I have been shown that it is not necessary or desirable to accept democratic results. It is a lesson millions of people have learned and if we do end up staying in they are going to find all sorts of ways to make both the Remainers and the EU pay.0 -
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.0 -
Corbyn’s problem though is that Labour voters aren’t overwhelmingly pro-EU. If he backs Remain or a second referendum he still needs them to stay loyal and turn out. That may not be the case particularly in too many Labour marginals.Black_Rook said:
Unless his hand is forced. Should the Conservative Hard Remainers break away and offer to prop Corbyn up then he would be forced to attempt his unicorn renegotiation strategy - which would almost certainly result either in a flat rejection of further talks by the EU27 (i.e. here's the Withdrawal Agreement, take it or leave it,) or an Andrex Soft Brexit - and No Deal would become an impossibility. Parliament would then either revoke, vote a WA straight through, or call a Deal/Remain referendum - most likely the latter in those circumstances.AmpfieldAndy said:
Possibly, but it would be a waste of time. Remain have already lost once and no one other than May and her payroll vote wants her deal. Any second referendum needs Labour to support it and Corbyn isn’t interested.Stereotomy said:
I think Deal Vs Remain is the only one that could get through parliamentAmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
Labour's membership as well as the PLP are overwhelmingly pro-EU: if he tried to face both down at the same time in pursuit of anything resembling a Hard Brexit then the Labour Party would implode.
Hard Remainers might walk through the lobby with him on the second referendum but difficult to see them offering to prop him up even if they went to the LibDems where Cable certainly would.0 -
Leave has "Who rules us - the voters or the MPs?"IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
0 -
Go on: spoil me. Which bookie would you place that bet on?OblitusSumMe said:If I had a betting bank I would put some on us leaving on March 29th
0 -
How does that line work when you're asking people to accept a version of Leave determined by politicians?MarqueeMark said:
Leave has "Who rules us - the voters or the MPs?"IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
0 -
It would depend whether the argument that prevailed was vote down this wicked deal, or what part of leave don't they understand?kle4 said:
All fine slogans...except so many leave supporters have made clear they despise the deal. I'm to believe, when there's been so little switching from remain to leave or leave to remain, that leave will be more motivated in a scenario which involves a deal so many despise?kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.0 -
I have read about the best solution to the problem. A terrible disaster is going to befall the United Kingdom and we all need to leave for Australia. Two very large ark ships are to be built (in Poland) to accommodate us on the voyage, but as we all hate each other so much people need to be split up. Supporters of Hard Brexit please board Ark B (for Brexit). Everyone else will follow on ark A0
-
The options are chosen by MPs.MarqueeMark said:
Leave has "Who rules us - the voters or the MPs?"IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
0 -
When it comes down to it, how many leavers are serious that remain - with all the baggage of ever closer union, the inevitable EU army and tax harmonisation and everything else that comes along with it - is really better than a "bad" deal?kle4 said:
All fine slogans...except so many leave supporters have made clear they despise the deal. I'm to believe, when there's been so little switching from remain to leave or leave to remain, that leave will be more motivated in a scenario which involves a deal so many despise?kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.
When it comes to the crunch I can't see many if any leavers backing remain over the deal in a hypothetical referendum, Brexit is just Brexit to most people outside the Westminster bubble.
0 -
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.Foxy said:
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.0 -
It doesn't matter which prevails, it matters are there enough of the former to see remain over the line? Remain is fired up. Leave is not. All it will take is a few percent less for leave.Sean_F said:
It would depend whether the argument that prevailed was vote down this wicked deal, or what part of leave don't they understand?kle4 said:
All fine slogans...except so many leave supporters have made clear they despise the deal. I'm to believe, when there's been so little switching from remain to leave or leave to remain, that leave will be more motivated in a scenario which involves a deal so many despise?kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.0 -
MPs are chosen by us. They won't do as instructed? Then change them.....kle4 said:
The options are chosen by MPs.MarqueeMark said:
Leave has "Who rules us - the voters or the MPs?"IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
0 -
Why would remain see a significant decrease? Few have switched as we continually hear, and this is the last best hope they have.Richard_Tyndall said:
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.Foxy said:
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.
0 -
If we vote to remain the instruction will be followed. And if that happens do you think MPs who voted for the referendum will be 'changed'? Of course not.MarqueeMark said:kle4 said:
The options are chosen by MPs.MarqueeMark said:
Leave has "Who rules us - the voters or the MPs?"IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
MPs are chosen by us. They won't do as instructed? Then change them.....kle4 said:
The options are chosen by MPs.MarqueeMark said:
Leave has "Who rules us - the voters or the MPs?"IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
If there was a chance that MPs would, as a whole, suffer from remaining happening, then it would not be such a major option right now.
0 -
Because there are many who voted remain reluctantly last time who are turned off by being asked to vote again. There was really very little great enthusiasm for the EU in the last vote. That will be even less if it happens again.kle4 said:
Why would remain see a significant decrease? Few have switched as we continually hear, and this is the last best hope they have.Richard_Tyndall said:
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.Foxy said:
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.0 -
I can see them propping up Corbyn for long enough to get a resolution to Brexit, but after that the rickety coalition would have no mandate or platform and there would have to be a General Election.AmpfieldAndy said:
Corbyn’s problem though is that Labour voters aren’t overwhelmingly pro-EU. If he backs Remain or a second referendum he still needs them to stay loyal and turn out. That may not be the case particularly in too many Labour marginals.Black_Rook said:
Unless his hand is forced. Should the Conservative Hard Remainers break away and offer to prop Corbyn up then he would be forced to attempt his unicorn renegotiation strategy - which would almost certainly result either in a flat rejection of further talks by the EU27 (i.e. here's the Withdrawal Agreement, take it or leave it,) or an Andrex Soft Brexit - and No Deal would become an impossibility. Parliament would then either revoke, vote a WA straight through, or call a Deal/Remain referendum - most likely the latter in those circumstances.AmpfieldAndy said:
Possibly, but it would be a waste of time. Remain have already lost once and no one other than May and her payroll vote wants her deal. Any second referendum needs Labour to support it and Corbyn isn’t interested.Stereotomy said:
I think Deal Vs Remain is the only one that could get through parliamentAmpfieldAndy said:
Problem with a second referendum is what is the question. The Leave vote has been remarkably resilient in the polls given 2 years on unrelenting pressure to change with no counter argument and a second referendum when the first hasn’t been honoured would be scandal.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
Labour's membership as well as the PLP are overwhelmingly pro-EU: if he tried to face both down at the same time in pursuit of anything resembling a Hard Brexit then the Labour Party would implode.
Hard Remainers might walk through the lobby with him on the second referendum but difficult to see them offering to prop him up even if they went to the LibDems where Cable certainly would.
It's also possible that a National Government could be formed to similarly resolve Brexit, with the bulk of the PLP acting in concert with a larger portion of the Conservatives, bypassing both May and Corbyn - but then we're into genuine realignment territory and the logistics become more challenging.0 -
Anyway, True Detective season 3 beckons (supposedly back on top form....).0
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Well, lets just wait and see. I think Remain will turnout in droves.Richard_Tyndall said:
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.Foxy said:
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.0 -
There's a lot more chaos involved in leave this time too. Remain can point to so many leave supporters saying how bad the deal is. They can quite honestly say that if so many leave people think it is not worth having, why would the voters.Richard_Tyndall said:
Because there are many who voted remain reluctantly last time who are turned off by being asked to vote again. There was really very little great enthusiasm for the EU in the last vote. That will be even less if it happens again.kle4 said:
Why would remain see a significant decrease? Few have switched as we continually hear, and this is the last best hope they have.Richard_Tyndall said:
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.Foxy said:
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.0 -
It is and it is....MarqueeMark said:Anyway, True Detective season 3 beckons (supposedly back on top form....).
0 -
Whether or not you turn out to be right about the total number of votes cast for Remain, it's self-evident that the number of enthusiastic and determined supporters of Remain is much higher than it was in 2016.Richard_Tyndall said:
Because there are many who voted remain reluctantly last time who are turned off by being asked to vote again. There was really very little great enthusiasm for the EU in the last vote. That will be even less if it happens again.kle4 said:
Why would remain see a significant decrease? Few have switched as we continually hear, and this is the last best hope they have.Richard_Tyndall said:
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.Foxy said:
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.0 -
What did Australia do to deserve that?RochdalePioneers said:I have read about the best solution to the problem. A terrible disaster is going to befall the United Kingdom and we all need to leave for Australia. Two very large ark ships are to be built (in Poland) to accommodate us on the voyage, but as we all hate each other so much people need to be split up. Supporters of Hard Brexit please board Ark B (for Brexit). Everyone else will follow on ark A
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Lol. When was the last time that the turnout in any vote actually mattered, in terms of the result? You need to take a step back and look at some of the nonsense you post.Richard_Tyndall said:
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.Foxy said:
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.0 -
And therein lies Remain's problem.Richard_Tyndall said:
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.Foxy said:
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.
More people feel passionately against the EU than are passionately for it. Remain failed to make a positive case for the EU in 2016, they've failed to make one since then (doubling down on project fear) and I doubt they would be able to put forward a positive case for the EU in 2019. Remain's strongest argument is that it is the least worst option. Hardly something that gets people marching down the polling stations.
Meanwhile leavers will be riled up and angry. Seeing the establishment attempting to overrule the 2016 result. Having the opportunity to stick two fingers up at them. They'll vote.
Moreover, I think there is a fundamental sense of fair play as part of our national character. Forcing people to vote twice just feels wrong. Undemocratic. The sort of thing tinpot dictatorships do, not something that's done over here. With so many people who voted remain the last time ambivalent about the EU at best, I think the leave vote is far more likely to turn out in force while remainers (soft remainers - not the "People's" vote mob) stay home.0 -
Sounds suspiciously like that wheeze from the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy...RochdalePioneers said:I have read about the best solution to the problem. A terrible disaster is going to befall the United Kingdom and we all need to leave for Australia. Two very large ark ships are to be built (in Poland) to accommodate us on the voyage, but as we all hate each other so much people need to be split up. Supporters of Hard Brexit please board Ark B (for Brexit). Everyone else will follow on ark A
Hard Brexiteers get to emigrate to Australia, everyone else gets wiped out by a plague. That sounds like a win for the Hard Brexiteers to me.0 -
Er, such as...?Richard_Tyndall said:
Indeed. This is the Remainer delusion; the idea that simply by winning a referendum they would have resolved anything at all. The public will have seen the contempt in which they are held by Parliament and that 50% (+/- 2 or 3 %) odd who still want to Leave would have no qualms about using every possible tactic to make sure this is not the end.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
I said on here before the last referendum that if Leave lost I would not campaign for another vote - just sit back and enjoy the increasing chaos that would result from a reluctant Remain which the EU would obviously take as a sign of complete acquiescence to their plans. I would have loved the 'I told you so' opportunities and the increasing frustration and anger on both sides.
Now I have been shown that it is not necessary or desirable to accept democratic results. It is a lesson millions of people have learned and if we do end up staying in they are going to find all sorts of ways to make both the Remainers and the EU pay.0 -
At a guess, the MPs?MarqueeMark said:
Leave has "Who rules us - the voters or the MPs?"IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
0 -
As I recall however the Gogalfrincham Ark B cohort was also wiped out by an especially cold winter.Black_Rook said:
Sounds suspiciously like that wheeze from the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy...RochdalePioneers said:I have read about the best solution to the problem. A terrible disaster is going to befall the United Kingdom and we all need to leave for Australia. Two very large ark ships are to be built (in Poland) to accommodate us on the voyage, but as we all hate each other so much people need to be split up. Supporters of Hard Brexit please board Ark B (for Brexit). Everyone else will follow on ark A
Hard Brexiteers get to emigrate to Australia, everyone else gets wiped out by a plague. That sounds like a win for the Hard Brexiteers to me.0 -
Evening all
Big day tomorrow (my birthday, actually, something else happening but of no import).
For me, there are and only ever have been two credible positions for the UK via a vis the EU - all in or all out. Our half-hearted rebate-obsessed opt-out ridden mean-spirited excuse of a membership has been wholly unsatisfactory for both the UK AND the EU.
We can't go back as we were - we could go back as full members embracing the Euro, Schengen and the fast track to political integration but there's little or no constituency for that.
So we leave, wishing the EU well and wanting to be on the best possible terms with whatever the Union becomes. That Union will have two problems on its peripheries - the UK on one side and Russia on the other. Very different problems but neither easy to resolve let alone everything happening to the south.0 -
Like I have said, if Leavers really believed this guff, they would have no fear of a #Peoplesvote.kyf_100 said:
And therein lies Remain's problem.Richard_Tyndall said:
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.Foxy said:
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.kyf_100 said:
The people against the powerful.kle4 said:
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.Sean_F said:
It would not go away.IanB2 said:
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.kle4 said:
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.AmpfieldAndy said:79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
You t
More people feel passionately against the EU than are passionately for it. Remain failed to make a positive case for the EU in 2016, they've failed to make one since then (doubling down on project fear) and I doubt they would be able to put forward a positive case for the EU in 2019. Remain's strongest argument is that it is the least worst option. Hardly something that gets people marching down the polling stations.
Meanwhile leavers will be riled up and angry. Seeing the establishment attempting to overrule the 2016 result. Having the opportunity to stick two fingers up at them. They'll vote.
Moreover, I think there is a fundamental sense of fair play as part of our national character. Forcing people to vote twice just feels wrong. Undemocratic. The sort of thing tinpot dictatorships do, not something that's done over here. With so many people who voted remain the last time ambivalent about the EU at best, I think the leave vote is far more likely to turn out in force while remainers (soft remainers - not the "People's" vote mob) stay home.0 -
Ah, but did the Golgafrinchans land in Australia?ydoethur said:
As I recall however the Gogalfrincham Ark B cohort was also wiped out by an especially cold winter.Black_Rook said:
Sounds suspiciously like that wheeze from the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy...RochdalePioneers said:I have read about the best solution to the problem. A terrible disaster is going to befall the United Kingdom and we all need to leave for Australia. Two very large ark ships are to be built (in Poland) to accommodate us on the voyage, but as we all hate each other so much people need to be split up. Supporters of Hard Brexit please board Ark B (for Brexit). Everyone else will follow on ark A
Hard Brexiteers get to emigrate to Australia, everyone else gets wiped out by a plague. That sounds like a win for the Hard Brexiteers to me.0 -
It's snow joke.Black_Rook said:
Ah, but did the Golgafrinchans land in Australia?ydoethur said:
As I recall however the Gogalfrincham Ark B cohort was also wiped out by an especially cold winter.Black_Rook said:
Sounds suspiciously like that wheeze from the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy...RochdalePioneers said:I have read about the best solution to the problem. A terrible disaster is going to befall the United Kingdom and we all need to leave for Australia. Two very large ark ships are to be built (in Poland) to accommodate us on the voyage, but as we all hate each other so much people need to be split up. Supporters of Hard Brexit please board Ark B (for Brexit). Everyone else will follow on ark A
Hard Brexiteers get to emigrate to Australia, everyone else gets wiped out by a plague. That sounds like a win for the Hard Brexiteers to me.
Good night.
(PS you mean 'crash' not 'land'.)0
This discussion has been closed.