politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » From the Commons library a treasure trove of data for election
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Perhaps. Ditto the claim of economic carnage with a no deal exit. That could be bullshit too. But even a small risk of something is best avoided if the 'something' is sufficiently terrible.Alanbrooke said:its ramping bullshit
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I've never encountered any hostility in Ireland.HYUFD said:
I have been to the Republic once, beautiful countryside but I remember I visited the Michael Collins assassination site and a local garage and not much pro British thereKentRising said:
I've been to half those countries, including Australia, but never been to Ireland. Probably the same for many Brits.HYUFD said:
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than Belgium. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Caribbean states, the USA, Austria, Italy, Switzerland etc are all closer allies of the UK now than IrelandSeanT said:
I confess I have developed a personal loathing for some Irish people during the debacle. One is the smug Irish prime minister. Another is "comic" Dara O'Brian, who ritain, which has been revealed of late. I guess it is understandable historically, but it gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.Alanbrooke said:
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurtsSeanT said:
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.Philip_Thompson said:
Because being trapped within an interminable backstop to which we have no unilateral exit is what is on the table. That is not what we voted for. It is not Brexit.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.Xenon said:
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
The fact that the EU can not find a single decent reason on their own right for us to be in the market so are resorting to sectarian blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.
It will be ugly.0 -
Been twice.HYUFD said:
I have been to the Republic once, beautiful countryside but I remember I visited the Michael Collins assassination site and a local garage and not much pro British thereKentRising said:
I've been to half those countries, including Australia, but never been to Ireland. Probably the same for many Brits.HYUFD said:
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than Belgium. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Caribbean states, the USA, Austria, Italy, Switzerland etc are all closer allies of the UK now than IrelandSeanT said:
IsnipAlanbrooke said:
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurtsSeanT said:
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.Philip_Thompson said:
Because being trapped within an interminable backstop to which we have no unilateral exit is what is on the table. That is not what we voted for. It is not Brexit.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.Xenon said:
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
The fact that the EU can not find a single decent reason on their own right for us to be in the market so are resorting to sectarian blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.
It will be ugly.
On the first occasion, in Dublin, a hearse pulled up alongside us as we walked down the road.
We were momentarily non-plussed as the driver wound down the window.
He then asked if we knew the way to the cemetery.0 -
When we've No dealed, I want taxes cut to the bone, THE BONE. We are going to bqe Singapore on steroids.HYUFD said:
We get more Eurovision votes now from Malta than Ireland. Ireland will likely try and deal with Juncker to get a guarantee over its tax position as Luxembourg also has much lower tax than elsewhere in the EUSeanT said:
Fair enough, But eurovision votes, pre Brexit, suggested otherwise, as did the coordination between Ireland and the UK within the EU. The UK is one reason Ireland's corporate tax regime has survived. We were a shield.HYUFD said:
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than Belgium. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Caribbean states, the USA, Austria, Italy, Switzerland etc are all closer allies of the UK now than IrelandSeanT said:
I confess Iit gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.Alanbrooke said:
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurtsSeanT said:
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.Philip_Thompson said:
Because beinan blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.Xenon said:
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
It will be ugly.
Once we are gone, France and Germany will say to Dublin, OK we protected you over Brexit, now we want repayment. The price will be Ireland's unusual tax arrangements, Just watch,0 -
Part of the problem for esta is the actual official website has a stupid url and the site looks like it was made by a child, both of which normally things you would associate with scammer site.edmundintokyo said:Other thing about ESTA was that the airline staff had a special bit of paper explaining how to get to the right website for it, while avoiding all the scams. That tells you how often people end up at a fake site. Obviously anything that involves a confusing government program and your credit card is a great opportunity for scammers, who will buy ads for all the relevant keywords and make a nice, usable site that's easier to get to than the government's terrible one.
And even if you get the right website, it'll just be a matter of time until the government leaks your credit card number.0 -
Not to your face maybe or as individuals but for the British state still little loveSean_F said:
I've never encountered any hostility in Ireland.HYUFD said:
I have been to the Republic once, beautiful countryside but I remember I visited the Michael Collins assassination site and a local garage and not much pro British thereKentRising said:
I've been to half those countries, including Australia, but never been to Ireland. Probably the same for many Brits.HYUFD said:
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than ndSeanT said:
I confess I have developed a personal loathing for some Irish people during the debacle. One is the smug Irish prime minister. Another is "comic" Dara O'Brian, who ritain, which has been revealed of late. I guess it is understandable historically, but it gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.Alanbrooke said:
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurtsSeanT said:
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.Philip_Thompson said:
Because being trapped within an interminable backstop to which we have no unilateral exit is what is on the table. That is not what we voted for. It is not Brexit.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.Xenon said:
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
The fact that the EU can not find a single decent reason on their own right for us to be in the market so are resorting to sectarian blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.
It will be ugly.0 -
Simple, look for the website that ends in .gov.edmundintokyo said:Other thing about ESTA was that the airline staff had a special bit of paper explaining how to get to the right website for it, while avoiding all the scams. That tells you how often people end up at a fake site. Obviously anything that involves a confusing government program and your credit card is a great opportunity for scammers, who will buy ads for all the relevant keywords and make a nice, usable site that's easier to get to than the government's terrible one.
And even if you get the right website, it'll just be a matter of time until the government leaks your credit card number.0 -
Belatedly, because I'm in meetings...Philip_Thompson said:
They should. It worked in New Zealand.rcs1000 said:
I'm not talking about whats right and whats wrong, but on what is politically possible.Philip_Thompson said:Because it's been such a disaster in New Zealand?
FFS its 2018. Why do people still argue tariffs work?
Conservative MPs, a great number of whom are from rural constituencies, are not going to vote to eliminate tariffs on the imports of agricultural produce from places with much lower costs of production.
England, average farm size under 50 hectars.
New Zealand, average farm size 252 hectars.
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well lets seeTOPPING said:
Stick one customs post on the Buncrana Road and all your questions will be answered.CD13 said:Where will these troubles come from? Do you really think SF would begin killing again? What would they gain?
They have two separate aims. One part of SF has a general Marxist agenda, and the other has a purely nationalistic aim - for a unified Ireland.
it wont be PIRA since they are too involved in politics and have lots to lose
dissident republicans are already at war and are struggling for a variety of reasons
the loyalists have been remarkably well behaved in the whole process and havent sent out signals saying theyre digging up their arms dumps
so whos going to be doing the killing ?0 -
Mr Topping,
"Stick one customs post on the Buncrana Road and all your questions will be answered."
Sigh … as I've said before … get Leo to do it, if he wants it. But don't repeat the WT rules. By the time, they shifted themselves, your grandchildren will be long dead.0 -
May and Juncker's argument doesn't seem to have been that exciting after all. She demands to know why he called her "nebulous" and he says that he didn't.
Hardly the clash of the century.0 -
You like public debt then?Luckyguy1983 said:
When we've No dealed, I want taxes cut to the bone, THE BONE. We are going to bqe Singapore on steroids.HYUFD said:
We get more Eurovision votes now from Malta than Ireland. Ireland will likely try and deal with Juncker to get a guarantee over its tax position as Luxembourg also has much lower tax than elsewhere in the EUSeanT said:
Fair enough, But eurovision votes, pre Brexit, suggested otherwise, as did the coordination between Ireland and the UK within the EU. The UK is one reason Ireland's corporate tax regime has survived. We were a shield.HYUFD said:
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than Belgium. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Caribbean states, the USA, Austria, Italy, Switzerland etc are all closer allies of the UK now than IrelandSeanT said:
I confess Iit gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.Alanbrooke said:
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurtsSeanT said:
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.Philip_Thompson said:
Because beinan blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.Xenon said:
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
It will be ugly.
Once we are gone, France and Germany will say to Dublin, OK we protected you over Brexit, now we want repayment. The price will be Ireland's unusual tax arrangements, Just watch,0 -
Why don't you just feck-off to Singapore then?Luckyguy1983 said:
When we've No dealed, I want taxes cut to the bone, THE BONE. We are going to bqe Singapore on steroids.HYUFD said:
We get more Eurovision votes now from Malta than Ireland. Ireland will likely try and deal with Juncker to get a guarantee over its tax position as Luxembourg also has much lower tax than elsewhere in the EUSeanT said:
Fair enough, But eurovision votes, pre Brexit, suggested otherwise, as did the coordination between Ireland and the UK within the EU. The UK is one reason Ireland's corporate tax regime has survived. We were a shield.HYUFD said:
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than Belgium. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Caribbean states, the USA, Austria, Italy, Switzerland etc are all closer allies of the UK now than IrelandSeanT said:
I confess Iit gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.Alanbrooke said:
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurtsSeanT said:
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.Philip_Thompson said:
Because beinan blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.Xenon said:
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
It will be ugly.
Once we are gone, France and Germany will say to Dublin, OK we protected you over Brexit, now we want repayment. The price will be Ireland's unusual tax arrangements, Just watch,0 -
Exactly. Varadkar cannot make concessions on the backstop because it would collapse his government. And May cannot make concessions because her government has already collapsed. So the winner will be the one with the greatest economic and political muscle.CD13 said:Varadkar has problems with his Fine Gael supporters. One of my Irish brother-in-laws always vote FG but smiles indulgently when we discuss Leo. It's always a good vote-winner to tease the UK.
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As the Times poll recently showed if Brexit was cancelled a new Bannon backed Tommy Robinson style anti immigration party would get 20% much like the far right in most of Europe now. UKIP got 27% in the 2014 European electionsOort said:
I said "rational" people. The far right didn't put up much of a showing on last Sunday's demonstration and newspapers can if necessary be nationalised or shut down. It's about time for Lord Pearson and the far right to be taken on and given a damned hard thrashing.HYUFD said:
No Remain would see a far right party surge, the Deal remains the only compromiseOort said:
Indeed. I prefer the first order because Remain would have a better chance of winning. But uo, Remain. Spartan if.HYUFD said:
May's Deal has a better chance of winning if the first question is do you still want to Leave the EU or to Remain and if Yes, second stage Leave with May's Deal or No DealSeanT said:
I would go for Nemtykhnat's excellent idea (BTW can he or she please get a more spellable name? Ta)David_Evershed said:
The people have already voted to Leave so presumably you would be asking the people to choose by which route to Leave?SeanT said:
Because democracy is generally expressed through parliament, yet, right now, parliament is literally incapable of making a decision. There is a majority against No Deal, there is a majority against the only Deal on offer. It is the very definition of an impasse.TheScreamingEagles said:
No.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
Why do you hate democracy?
With parliament entirely paralysed, I think it is fair to go for the only other solution (none of this is ideal, clearly) and hand the choice back to the people.
I genuinely do not know who would win, but at least it is closer to sensible democracy than the shambling omnifuck we see in the Commons daily.
Anyway, his/her idea was:
A two stage referendum
First question: do you support TMay's deal - Yes or No
If No, second stage: do you want to Remain, or leave with No Deal?0 -
You may want what you want.Luckyguy1983 said:
When we've No dealed, I want taxes cut to the bone, THE BONE. We are going to bqe Singapore on steroids.HYUFD said:
We get more Eurovision votes now from Malta than Ireland. Ireland will likely try and deal with Juncker to get a guarantee over its tax position as Luxembourg also has much lower tax than elsewhere in the EUSeanT said:
Fair enough, But eurovision votes, pre Brexit, suggested otherwise, as did the coordination between Ireland and the UK within the EU. The UK is one reason Ireland's corporate tax regime has survived. We were a shield.HYUFD said:
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than Belgium. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Caribbean states, the USA, Austria, Italy, Switzerland etc are all closer allies of the UK now than IrelandSeanT said:
I confess Iit gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.Alanbrooke said:
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurtsSeanT said:
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.Philip_Thompson said:
Because beinan blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.Xenon said:
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
It will be ugly.
Once we are gone, France and Germany will say to Dublin, OK we protected you over Brexit, now we want repayment. The price will be Ireland's unusual tax arrangements, Just watch,0 -
More likely we end up with Corbyn PM and challenging Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela for socialismLuckyguy1983 said:
When we've No dealed, I want taxes cut to the bone, THE BONE. We are going to bqe Singapore on steroids.HYUFD said:
We get more Eurovision votes now from Malta than Ireland. Ireland will likely try and deal with Juncker to get a guarantee over its tax position as Luxembourg also has much lower tax than elsewhere in the EUSeanT said:
Fair enough, But eurovision votes, pre Brexit, suggested otherwise, as did the coordination between Ireland and the UK within the EU. The UK is one reason Ireland's corporate tax regime has survived. We were a shield.HYUFD said:
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than Belgium. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Caribbean states, the USA, Austria, Italy, Switzerland etc are all closer allies of the UK now than IrelandSeanT said:
I confess Iit gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.Alanbrooke said:
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurtsSeanT said:
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.Philip_Thompson said:
Because beinan blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.Xenon said:
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
It will be ugly.
Once we are gone, France and Germany will say to Dublin, OK we protected you over Brexit, now we want repayment. The price will be Ireland's unusual tax arrangements, Just watch,0 -
More likely we end up with Corbyn PM and challenging Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela for socialismLuckyguy1983 said:
When we've No dealed, I want taxes cut to the bone, THE BONE. We are going to bqe Singapore on steroids.HYUFD said:
We get more Eurovision votes now from Malta than Ireland. Ireland will likely try and deal with Juncker to get a guarantee over its tax position as Luxembourg also has much lower tax than elsewhere in the EUSeanT said:
Fair enough, But eurovision votes, pre Brexit, suggested otherwise, as did the coordination between Ireland and the UK within the EU. The UK is one reason Ireland's corporate tax regime has survived. We were a shield.HYUFD said:
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than Belgium. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Caribbean states, the USA, Austria, Italy, Switzerland etc are all closer allies of the UK now than IrelandSeanT said:
I confess Iit gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.Alanbrooke said:
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurtsSeanT said:
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.Philip_Thompson said:
Because beinan blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.Xenon said:
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
It will be ugly.
Once we are gone, France and Germany will say to Dublin, OK we protected you over Brexit, now we want repayment. The price will be Ireland's unusual tax arrangements, Just watch,0 -
of course it hasnt but thats bugger all to do with Brexit. The crocodile tears for the poor people of Ireland dont extend to punishment beatings or gang wars or protection rackets.TOPPING said:
https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/1100-bombs-and-shootings-in-10-years-the-figures-that-prove-terrorism-hasnt-gone-away-34672253.htmlAlanbrooke said:
lol bloodshed ? Where ? I was on the island a fortnight ago - nothing. Really its crazy ramping ike this which more likely to bring out the guns than just letting the sleeping dogs lie.TOPPING said:
It's not at all. It's the talk of the island right now.Alanbrooke said:
its ramping bullshitkinabalu said:
A hard border in Ireland undermines the GFA and threatens a return of The Troubles.Alanbrooke said:Where is this bloodshed in Ireland coming from ?
That is the message I am hearing.
Alan you've been away a while. This shit never stopped.
If youn want to depress yourself watch the Tracey Dooley film on iplayer on paramilitaries and drugs. If those worried about the poor folks of Ulster post Brexit then why dont they give a shit for them now ?0 -
People treat the EU elections as a free hit, and lots of people would be happy to elect loons if we Remain.HYUFD said:
As the Times poll recently showed if Brexit was cancelled a new Bannon backed Tommy Robinson style anti immigration party would get 20% much like the far right in most of Europe now. UKIP got 27% in the 2014 European electionsOort said:
I said "rational" people. The far right didn't put up much of a showing on last Sunday's demonstration and newspapers can if necessary be nationalised or shut down. It's about time for Lord Pearson and the far right to be taken on and given a damned hard thrashing.HYUFD said:
No Remain would see a far right party surge, the Deal remains the only compromiseOort said:
Indeed. I prefer the first order because Remain would have a better chance of winning. But uo, Remain. Spartan if.HYUFD said:
May's Deal has a better chance of winning if the first question is do you still want to Leave the EU or to Remain and if Yes, second stage Leave with May's Deal or No DealSeanT said:
I would go for Nemtykhnat's excellent idea (BTW can he or she please get a more spellable name? Ta)David_Evershed said:
e?SeanT said:
.TheScreamingEagles said:
No.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
Why do you hate democracy?
Anyway, his/her idea was:
A two stage referendum
First question: do you support TMay's deal - Yes or No
If No, second stage: do you want to Remain, or leave with No Deal?0 -
Making quite a lot about it on Sky saying Junckers comments are on record and has lied to hergrabcocque said:May and Juncker's argument doesn't seem to have been that exciting after all. She demands to know why he called her "nebulous" and he says that he didn't.
Hardly the clash of the century.0 -
That serves to show only how language ("No Deal") is simply being used by Remainers to distort the reality of what would be on offer. Unfortunately such semantics are being used to distort debate on these pages too.dixiedean said:
No medicine? No flights? No cooperation on any matter whatsoever, however trivial, or however vital?TOPPING said:
Exactly plus imagine a "no deal" instruction. What, none whatsoever, no itty-bitty deals on aviation, medicines, etc? Forbidden by popular acclaim.
What bollocks jeez Leavers are thick.
Will of the people, intit?
That is why No Deal cannot be on a ballot. Any PM doing so would be utterly irresponsible to suggest it.
So not ruled out then.
The language on any fresh ballot chosing between a WTO Leave and Remain, that truly illustrated the binary choice facing the country, should be something like:
"Should the UK leave the EU and seek to trade and cooperate with EU countries on a similar basis to the way it deals with most other countries in the world?
or
Should the UK seek to reverse the 2016 referendum result and remain a full member of the EU as its leaders seek to take it on a path towards ever closer union".0 -
The pensioners who voted for Brexit aren’t going to like their state handouts being cut off to satisfy your pathetic fantasies.Luckyguy1983 said:
When we've No dealed, I want taxes cut to the bone, THE BONE. We are going to bqe Singapore on steroids.HYUFD said:
We get more Eurovision votes now from Malta than Ireland. Ireland will likely try and deal with Juncker to get a guarantee over its tax position as Luxembourg also has much lower tax than elsewhere in the EUSeanT said:
Fair enough, But eurovision votes, pre Brexit, suggested otherwise, as did the coordination between Ireland and the UK within the EU. The UK is one reason Ireland's corporate tax regime has survived. We were a shield.HYUFD said:
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than Belgium. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Caribbean states, the USA, Austria, Italy, Switzerland etc are all closer allies of the UK now than IrelandSeanT said:
I confess Iit gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.Alanbrooke said:
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurtsSeanT said:
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.Philip_Thompson said:
Because beinan blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.Xenon said:
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
It will be ugly.
Once we are gone, France and Germany will say to Dublin, OK we protected you over Brexit, now we want repayment. The price will be Ireland's unusual tax arrangements, Just watch,0 -
StaceyAlanbrooke said:
of course it hasnt but thats bugger all to do with Brexit. The crocodile tears for the poor people of Ireland dont extend to punishment beatings or gang wars or protection rackets.TOPPING said:
https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/1100-bombs-and-shootings-in-10-years-the-figures-that-prove-terrorism-hasnt-gone-away-34672253.htmlAlanbrooke said:
lol bloodshed ? Where ? I was on the island a fortnight ago - nothing. Really its crazy ramping ike this which more likely to bring out the guns than just letting the sleeping dogs lie.TOPPING said:
It's not at all. It's the talk of the island right now.Alanbrooke said:
its ramping bullshitkinabalu said:
A hard border in Ireland undermines the GFA and threatens a return of The Troubles.Alanbrooke said:Where is this bloodshed in Ireland coming from ?
That is the message I am hearing.
Alan you've been away a while. This shit never stopped.
If youn want to depress yourself watch the Tracey Dooley film on iplayer on paramilitaries and drugs. If those worried about the poor folks of Ulster post Brexit then why dont they give a shit for them now ?0 -
Certainly in the working class areas of the North and Midlands the far right would prosperSean_F said:
People treat the EU elections as a free hit, and lots of people would be happy to elect loons if we Remain.HYUFD said:
As the Times poll recently showed if Brexit was cancelled a new Bannon backed Tommy Robinson style anti immigration party would get 20% much like the far right in most of Europe now. UKIP got 27% in the 2014 European electionsOort said:
I said "rational" people. The far right didn't put up much of a showing on last Sunday's demonstration and newspapers can if necessary be nationalised or shut down. It's about time for Lord Pearson and the far right to be taken on and given a damned hard thrashing.HYUFD said:
No Remain would see a far right party surge, the Deal remains the only compromiseOort said:
Indeed. I prefer the first order because Remain would have a better chance of winning. But uo, Remain. Spartan if.HYUFD said:
May's Deal has a better chance of winning if the first question is do you still want to Leave the EU or to Remain and if Yes, second stage Leave with May's Deal or No DealSeanT said:
I would go for Nemtykhnat's excellent idea (BTW can he or she please get a more spellable name? Ta)David_Evershed said:
e?SeanT said:
.TheScreamingEagles said:
No.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
Why do you hate democracy?
Anyway, his/her idea was:
A two stage referendum
First question: do you support TMay's deal - Yes or No
If No, second stage: do you want to Remain, or leave with No Deal?0 -
Reports also that the Council have fallen out with the Commission0
-
Ed Vaizey on wato saying the Brexiters plan to "go on strike" until May resigns0
-
The same people who are doing it today, Alan.Alanbrooke said:
well lets seeTOPPING said:
Stick one customs post on the Buncrana Road and all your questions will be answered.CD13 said:Where will these troubles come from? Do you really think SF would begin killing again? What would they gain?
They have two separate aims. One part of SF has a general Marxist agenda, and the other has a purely nationalistic aim - for a unified Ireland.
it wont be PIRA since they are too involved in politics and have lots to lose
dissident republicans are already at war and are struggling for a variety of reasons
the loyalists have been remarkably well behaved in the whole process and havent sent out signals saying theyre digging up their arms dumps
so whos going to be doing the killing ?0 -
I don't disagree with anything you have written. But tell me, stick a border post up somewhere. As someone steeped in the area, what do you think would happen?Alanbrooke said:
of course it hasnt but thats bugger all to do with Brexit. The crocodile tears for the poor people of Ireland dont extend to punishment beatings or gang wars or protection rackets.TOPPING said:
https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/1100-bombs-and-shootings-in-10-years-the-figures-that-prove-terrorism-hasnt-gone-away-34672253.htmlAlanbrooke said:
lol bloodshed ? Where ? I was on the island a fortnight ago - nothing. Really its crazy ramping ike this which more likely to bring out the guns than just letting the sleeping dogs lie.TOPPING said:
It's not at all. It's the talk of the island right now.Alanbrooke said:
its ramping bullshitkinabalu said:
A hard border in Ireland undermines the GFA and threatens a return of The Troubles.Alanbrooke said:Where is this bloodshed in Ireland coming from ?
That is the message I am hearing.
Alan you've been away a while. This shit never stopped.
If youn want to depress yourself watch the Tracey Dooley film on iplayer on paramilitaries and drugs. If those worried about the poor folks of Ulster post Brexit then why dont they give a shit for them now ?0 -
TM live on Sky in 5 minutes0
-
First normal humans don't know to do that especially when busy and confused, second that part will fall off the end of the screen, third you can beat it with homoglyphs, and fourth, if you needed to hack a minor .gov page to host your fake site then hack another one when they cleaned that one up then you could.RobD said:
Simple, look for the website that ends in .gov.edmundintokyo said:Other thing about ESTA was that the airline staff had a special bit of paper explaining how to get to the right website for it, while avoiding all the scams. That tells you how often people end up at a fake site. Obviously anything that involves a confusing government program and your credit card is a great opportunity for scammers, who will buy ads for all the relevant keywords and make a nice, usable site that's easier to get to than the government's terrible one.
And even if you get the right website, it'll just be a matter of time until the government leaks your credit card number.0 -
Hopefully she isn’t going to do her usual nothing has changed, yadda yadda yadda.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM live on Sky in 5 minutes
0 -
As I've said (a thousand times) before - it won't be Leo it will be a WTO member (indeed even as @rcs has pointed out this very day) who brings a dispute under MFN.CD13 said:Mr Topping,
"Stick one customs post on the Buncrana Road and all your questions will be answered."
Sigh … as I've said before … get Leo to do it, if he wants it. But don't repeat the WT rules. By the time, they shifted themselves, your grandchildren will be long dead.0 -
If stay like you I shall look for the maddest anti establishment party and vote for it - ex Bob Crowes lot sound about right,Sean_F said:
People treat the EU elections as a free hit, and lots of people would be happy to elect loons if we Remain.HYUFD said:
As the Times poll recently showed if Brexit was cancelled a new Bannon backed Tommy Robinson style anti immigration party would get 20% much like the far right in most of Europe now. UKIP got 27% in the 2014 European electionsOort said:
I said "rational" people. The far right didn't put up much of a showing on last Sunday's demonstration and newspapers can if necessary be nationalised or shut down. It's about time for Lord Pearson and the far right to be taken on and given a damned hard thrashing.HYUFD said:
No Remain would see a far right party surge, the Deal remains the only compromiseOort said:
Indeed. I prefer the first order because Remain would have a better chance of winning. But uo, Remain. Spartan if.HYUFD said:
May's Deal has a better chance of winning if the first question is do you still want to Leave the EU or to Remain and if Yes, second stage Leave with May's Deal or No DealSeanT said:
I would go for Nemtykhnat's excellent idea (BTW can he or she please get a more spellable name? Ta)David_Evershed said:
e?SeanT said:
.TheScreamingEagles said:
No.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
Why do you hate democracy?
Anyway, his/her idea was:
A two stage referendum
First question: do you support TMay's deal - Yes or No
If No, second stage: do you want to Remain, or leave with No Deal?0 -
A country in which almost all land is owned by the state and more than 80% of the population live in publicly-owned housing.Luckyguy1983 said:
When we've No dealed, I want taxes cut to the bone, THE BONE. We are going to bqe Singapore on steroids.HYUFD said:
We get more Eurovision votes now from Malta than Ireland. Ireland will likely try and deal with Juncker to get a guarantee over its tax position as Luxembourg also has much lower tax than elsewhere in the EUSeanT said:
Fair enough, But eurovision votes, pre Brexit, suggested otherwise, as did the coordination between Ireland and the UK within the EU. The UK is one reason Ireland's corporate tax regime has survived. We were a shield.HYUFD said:
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than Belgium. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Caribbean states, the USA, Austria, Italy, Switzerland etc are all closer allies of the UK now than IrelandSeanT said:
I confess Iit gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.Alanbrooke said:
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurtsSeanT said:
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.Philip_Thompson said:
Because beinan blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.Xenon said:
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.SeanT said:
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.tottenhamWC said:
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....El_Capitano said:Have we seen this before?
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Let's have another vote.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
It will be ugly.
Once we are gone, France and Germany will say to Dublin, OK we protected you over Brexit, now we want repayment. The price will be Ireland's unusual tax arrangements, Just watch,0 -
We have an anti-immigration party in Government right now. Our Prime Minister - our actual, right now, currently governing, Prime Minister - is obsessed beyond all else with ending freedom of movement.HYUFD said:As the Times poll recently showed if Brexit was cancelled a new Bannon backed Tommy Robinson style anti immigration party would get 20% much like the far right in most of Europe now. UKIP got 27% in the 2014 European elections
So if the nutcase right want to piss off into their own minority party, thereby returning one of our two traditional governing parties to some semblance of sanity, bring it on.0 -
It would get shot at, which is why I wouldnt stick a bortder post up in the first place, but do the policing of tarriffs another way.TOPPING said:
I don't disagree with anything you have written. But tell me, stick a border post up somewhere. As someone steeped in the area, what do you think would happen?Alanbrooke said:
of course it hasnt but thats bugger all to do with Brexit. The crocodile tears for the poor people of Ireland dont extend to punishment beatings or gang wars or protection rackets.TOPPING said:
https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/1100-bombs-and-shootings-in-10-years-the-figures-that-prove-terrorism-hasnt-gone-away-34672253.htmlAlanbrooke said:
lol bloodshed ? Where ? I was on the island a fortnight ago - nothing. Really its crazy ramping ike this which more likely to bring out the guns than just letting the sleeping dogs lie.TOPPING said:
It's not at all. It's the talk of the island right now.Alanbrooke said:
its ramping bullshitkinabalu said:
A hard border in Ireland undermines the GFA and threatens a return of The Troubles.Alanbrooke said:Where is this bloodshed in Ireland coming from ?
That is the message I am hearing.
Alan you've been away a while. This shit never stopped.
If youn want to depress yourself watch the Tracey Dooley film on iplayer on paramilitaries and drugs. If those worried about the poor folks of Ulster post Brexit then why dont they give a shit for them now ?0 -
I just googled the word ESTA, and it’s the top hit. Not sure it could be any easier.edmundintokyo said:
First normal humans don't know to do that especially when busy and confused, second that part will fall off the end of the screen, third you can beat it with homoglyphs, and fourth, if you needed to hack one to host your fake site then hack another one when they cleaned that one up then you could.RobD said:
Simple, look for the website that ends in .gov.edmundintokyo said:Other thing about ESTA was that the airline staff had a special bit of paper explaining how to get to the right website for it, while avoiding all the scams. That tells you how often people end up at a fake site. Obviously anything that involves a confusing government program and your credit card is a great opportunity for scammers, who will buy ads for all the relevant keywords and make a nice, usable site that's easier to get to than the government's terrible one.
And even if you get the right website, it'll just be a matter of time until the government leaks your credit card number.0 -
Only this time isn't that the probem? - nothing has changed!FrancisUrquhart said:
Hopefully she isn’t going to do her usual nothing has changed, yadda yadda yadda.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM live on Sky in 5 minutes
0 -
which as we have seen isnt a result of Brexit but simply nutjobs who will always shoot at someone.TOPPING said:
The same people who are doing it today, Alan.Alanbrooke said:
well lets seeTOPPING said:
Stick one customs post on the Buncrana Road and all your questions will be answered.CD13 said:Where will these troubles come from? Do you really think SF would begin killing again? What would they gain?
They have two separate aims. One part of SF has a general Marxist agenda, and the other has a purely nationalistic aim - for a unified Ireland.
it wont be PIRA since they are too involved in politics and have lots to lose
dissident republicans are already at war and are struggling for a variety of reasons
the loyalists have been remarkably well behaved in the whole process and havent sent out signals saying theyre digging up their arms dumps
so whos going to be doing the killing ?0 -
That would be Stacey Dooley not Tracey Dooley.TOPPING said:
I don't disagree with anything you have written. But tell me, stick a border post up somewhere. As someone steeped in the area, what do you think would happen?Alanbrooke said:
of course it hasnt but thats bugger all to do with Brexit. The crocodile tears for the poor people of Ireland dont extend to punishment beatings or gang wars or protection rackets.TOPPING said:
https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/1100-bombs-and-shootings-in-10-years-the-figures-that-prove-terrorism-hasnt-gone-away-34672253.htmlAlanbrooke said:
lol bloodshed ? Where ? I was on the island a fortnight ago - nothing. Really its crazy ramping ike this which more likely to bring out the guns than just letting the sleeping dogs lie.TOPPING said:
It's not at all. It's the talk of the island right now.Alanbrooke said:
its ramping bullshitkinabalu said:
A hard border in Ireland undermines the GFA and threatens a return of The Troubles.Alanbrooke said:Where is this bloodshed in Ireland coming from ?
That is the message I am hearing.
Alan you've been away a while. This shit never stopped.
If youn want to depress yourself watch the Tracey Dooley film on iplayer on paramilitaries and drugs. If those worried about the poor folks of Ulster post Brexit then why dont they give a shit for them now ?
But why would we major insight on something as complex as NI when she couldn't tell the difference between Soviet Russia and Primark when it came to responsibility for draining the Aral Sea?0 -
My grandfather narrowly avoided being murdered by Irish republicans. Threats of renewed violence are a poor reason to genuflect to that grandstanding poseur Varadkar even if May did foolishly agree to the backstop.TOPPING said:
The same people who are doing it today, Alan.Alanbrooke said:
well lets seeTOPPING said:
Stick one customs post on the Buncrana Road and all your questions will be answered.CD13 said:Where will these troubles come from? Do you really think SF would begin killing again? What would they gain?
They have two separate aims. One part of SF has a general Marxist agenda, and the other has a purely nationalistic aim - for a unified Ireland.
it wont be PIRA since they are too involved in politics and have lots to lose
dissident republicans are already at war and are struggling for a variety of reasons
the loyalists have been remarkably well behaved in the whole process and havent sent out signals saying theyre digging up their arms dumps
so whos going to be doing the killing ?0 -
correct, my mistakeBenpointer said:
StaceyAlanbrooke said:
of course it hasnt but thats bugger all to do with Brexit. The crocodile tears for the poor people of Ireland dont extend to punishment beatings or gang wars or protection rackets.TOPPING said:
https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/1100-bombs-and-shootings-in-10-years-the-figures-that-prove-terrorism-hasnt-gone-away-34672253.htmlAlanbrooke said:
lol bloodshed ? Where ? I was on the island a fortnight ago - nothing. Really its crazy ramping ike this which more likely to bring out the guns than just letting the sleeping dogs lie.TOPPING said:
It's not at all. It's the talk of the island right now.Alanbrooke said:
its ramping bullshitkinabalu said:
A hard border in Ireland undermines the GFA and threatens a return of The Troubles.Alanbrooke said:Where is this bloodshed in Ireland coming from ?
That is the message I am hearing.
Alan you've been away a while. This shit never stopped.
If youn want to depress yourself watch the Tracey Dooley film on iplayer on paramilitaries and drugs. If those worried about the poor folks of Ulster post Brexit then why dont they give a shit for them now ?0 -
She should call a referendum and their bluff. It is the only way out.IanB2 said:Ed Vaizey on wato saying the Brexiters plan to "go on strike" until May resigns
0 -
There are lots of scam sites. Not everybody is sophisticated or intelligent. How many people fall for boiler room scams or similar?RobD said:
I just googled the word ESTA, and it’s the top hit. Not sure it could be any easier.edmundintokyo said:
First normal humans don't know to do that especially when busy and confused, second that part will fall off the end of the screen, third you can beat it with homoglyphs, and fourth, if you needed to hack one to host your fake site then hack another one when they cleaned that one up then you could.RobD said:
Simple, look for the website that ends in .gov.edmundintokyo said:Other thing about ESTA was that the airline staff had a special bit of paper explaining how to get to the right website for it, while avoiding all the scams. That tells you how often people end up at a fake site. Obviously anything that involves a confusing government program and your credit card is a great opportunity for scammers, who will buy ads for all the relevant keywords and make a nice, usable site that's easier to get to than the government's terrible one.
And even if you get the right website, it'll just be a matter of time until the government leaks your credit card number.0 -
We need to deregulate when we’re out, cut taxes such as corporation tax, boost investment and infrastructure, frame a proper immigration policy, set tariffs to suit us rather than be foisted by the Common e get along tariff and see who, if anyone, wants a trade deal.
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
Looks like ROI will get a hard border by default. That’s a shame. As 80% of their EU trade passes through Britain they’ll have a few problems.0 -
If this is defeated would it prevent another bill revoking A50 being introduced during this parliament? *worried face*Tissue_Price said:0 -
agree!Alanbrooke said:
which as we have seen isnt a result of Brexit but simply nutjobs who will always shoot at someone.TOPPING said:
The same people who are doing it today, Alan.Alanbrooke said:
well lets seeTOPPING said:
Stick one customs post on the Buncrana Road and all your questions will be answered.CD13 said:Where will these troubles come from? Do you really think SF would begin killing again? What would they gain?
They have two separate aims. One part of SF has a general Marxist agenda, and the other has a purely nationalistic aim - for a unified Ireland.
it wont be PIRA since they are too involved in politics and have lots to lose
dissident republicans are already at war and are struggling for a variety of reasons
the loyalists have been remarkably well behaved in the whole process and havent sent out signals saying theyre digging up their arms dumps
so whos going to be doing the killing ?0 -
Precisely. 1922 had the chance to get change and said no. So we drag on with this.Benpointer said:
Only this time isn't that the probem? - nothing has changed!FrancisUrquhart said:
Hopefully she isn’t going to do her usual nothing has changed, yadda yadda yadda.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM live on Sky in 5 minutes
0 -
The problem with this is that no deal almost certainly leads to Corbyn.AmpfieldAndy said:We need to deregulate when we’re out, cut taxes such as corporation tax, boost investment and infrastructure, frame a proper immigration policy, set tariffs to suit us rather than be foisted by the Common e get along tariff and see who, if anyone, wants a trade deal.
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
Looks like ROI will get a hard border by default. That’s a shame. As 80% of their EU trade passes through Britain they’ll have a few problems.
Don't think he will be following that approach.....0 -
We only save the 15bn we'd be paying for 2019/2020 single market access.AmpfieldAndy said:
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
The rest is debt we'll end up paying whatever.
0 -
No, I don’t think it would. Would have been awfully funny if it had.Benpointer said:
If this is defeated would it prevent another bill revoking A50 being introduced during this parliament? *worried face*Tissue_Price said:0 -
I don't think they ever come to a vote, and don't matter anyway. It's effectively a petition from MPs, the interest is in how many sign upBenpointer said:
If this is defeated would it prevent another bill revoking A50 being introduced during this parliament? *worried face*Tissue_Price said:0 -
May responses at the press conference appears to be conducted in a parallel universe. You would have thought all the leaks this morning were all about how they were just waiting for the ink to dry on the clarification document.0
-
Is the standard line but this was all dealt with in 1998. Ireland is Ireland and it is not so much threats of violence as understanding the geopolitics of the place (not saying you don't and well done your grandfather).Norm said:
My grandfather narrowly avoided being murdered by Irish republicans. Threats of renewed violence are a poor reason to genuflect to that grandstanding poseur Varadkar even if May did foolishly agree to the backstop.TOPPING said:
The same people who are doing it today, Alan.Alanbrooke said:
well lets seeTOPPING said:
Stick one customs post on the Buncrana Road and all your questions will be answered.CD13 said:Where will these troubles come from? Do you really think SF would begin killing again? What would they gain?
They have two separate aims. One part of SF has a general Marxist agenda, and the other has a purely nationalistic aim - for a unified Ireland.
it wont be PIRA since they are too involved in politics and have lots to lose
dissident republicans are already at war and are struggling for a variety of reasons
the loyalists have been remarkably well behaved in the whole process and havent sent out signals saying theyre digging up their arms dumps
so whos going to be doing the killing ?
The reality is that for whatever reason, there remains a group of people who see today as an extension of the GPO struggle and believe in a united Ireland. Call them freedom fighters, if you will. Terrorists, if you must.
We have somehow, via the GFA, managed to balance all such views and interests and beliefs and have come to a way of living. Which could so easily be disrupted with a wrong move now.0 -
Would that be "tariff income" in our brave new global free trade world?AmpfieldAndy said:We need to deregulate when we’re out, cut taxes such as corporation tax, boost investment and infrastructure, frame a proper immigration policy, set tariffs to suit us rather than be foisted by the Common e get along tariff and see who, if anyone, wants a trade deal.
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
Looks like ROI will get a hard border by default. That’s a shame. As 80% of their EU trade passes through Britain they’ll have a few problems.0 -
It's annoying because it is actually "news", but the interviewer presumably had their next question already in mind and didn't pick up on it. If it means 100 Tories won't vote with the government on anything, they are in trouble.dixiedean said:
Bring back Maggie. I'd pay sums to see Orgreave 2. Bone and Boris and JRM beaten and chucked in a cell.IanB2 said:Ed Vaizey on wato saying the Brexiters plan to "go on strike" until May resigns
0 -
This is one that I would like to see brought to a vote. It's time for all the MPs to put their cards on the table.IanB2 said:
I don't think they ever come to a vote, and don't matter anyway. It's effectively a petition from MPs, the interest is in how many sign upBenpointer said:
If this is defeated would it prevent another bill revoking A50 being introduced during this parliament? *worried face*Tissue_Price said:0 -
I understood that the 10 Minute Rule bill was traditionally the domain of the attention-seeker.Benpointer said:
If this is defeated would it prevent another bill revoking A50 being introduced during this parliament? *worried face*Tissue_Price said:0 -
https://twitter.com/RCorbettMEP/status/1073521199869816832
Clear where the momentum is heading here. And surely it is going to move even more in that direction by early next year....
OK. These are big shifts. Finally. The stupid, witless, jellified, cowardly, spineless proles have got the heebie-jeebies, thank God.
Let's have another vote.
Two years of project fear and bleating about how "impossible" it is and then make us vote again.
It was obvious from the start that they'd never let us leave.
Nonsense. We can leave, there's a perfectly good deal on the table, all 500+ pages of it fully agreed. It can come into force on the 29th March.
Bizarrely, though, a significant group of those who campaigned for exaceir minds when faced with Brexit.
Because beinan blackmail shows the weakness of the EU to me.
Well, we are now clearly headed for No Deal so we are about to see if the EU nace, the Enemy.
It will be ugly.
really we should fuck Vardkar over till it hurts
I confess Iit gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.
The Republic of Ireland is not even in the Commonwealth and does not have the Queen as its Head of State and is in the Eurozone, it is now no more a British ally than Belgium. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Caribbean states, the USA, Austria, Italy, Switzerland etc are all closer allies of the UK now than Ireland
Fair enough, But eurovision votes, pre Brexit, suggested otherwise, as did the coordination between Ireland and the UK within the EU. The UK is one reason Ireland's corporate tax regime has survived. We were a shield.
Once we are gone, France and Germany will say to Dublin, OK we protected you over Brexit, now we want repayment. The price will be Ireland's unusual tax arrangements, Just watch,
We get more Eurovision votes now from Malta than Ireland. Ireland will likely try and deal with Juncker to get a guarantee over its tax position as Luxembourg also has much lower tax than elsewhere in the EU
When we've No dealed, I want taxes cut to the bone, THE BONE. We are going to bqe Singapore on steroids.
The pensioners who voted for Brexit aren’t going to like their state handouts being cut off to satisfy your pathetic fantasies.
After Brexit the pensions triple lock will have to go.0 -
Doesn't seem to be confirmed anywhere.Tissue_Price said:0 -
Probably more like three or four, but that would also cause trouble.IanB2 said:
It's annoying because it is actually "news", but the interviewer presumably had their next question already in mind and didn't pick up on it. If it means 100 Tories won't vote with the government on anything, they are in trouble.dixiedean said:
Bring back Maggie. I'd pay sums to see Orgreave 2. Bone and Boris and JRM beaten and chucked in a cell.IanB2 said:Ed Vaizey on wato saying the Brexiters plan to "go on strike" until May resigns
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ha MrT glad to see were on the same page on somethingTOPPING said:
agree!Alanbrooke said:
which as we have seen isnt a result of Brexit but simply nutjobs who will always shoot at someone.TOPPING said:
The same people who are doing it today, Alan.Alanbrooke said:
well lets seeTOPPING said:
Stick one customs post on the Buncrana Road and all your questions will be answered.CD13 said:Where will these troubles come from? Do you really think SF would begin killing again? What would they gain?
They have two separate aims. One part of SF has a general Marxist agenda, and the other has a purely nationalistic aim - for a unified Ireland.
it wont be PIRA since they are too involved in politics and have lots to lose
dissident republicans are already at war and are struggling for a variety of reasons
the loyalists have been remarkably well behaved in the whole process and havent sent out signals saying theyre digging up their arms dumps
so whos going to be doing the killing ?
I may just go buy a lottery ticket :-)0 -
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I might believe it more if he could spell "Geraint Davies".Recidivist said:
Doesn't seem to be confirmed anywhere.Tissue_Price said:0 -
The way it could be easier would be if you didn't have to do it.RobD said:
I just googled the word ESTA, and it’s the top hit. Not sure it could be any easier.edmundintokyo said:
First normal humans don't know to do that especially when busy and confused, second that part will fall off the end of the screen, third you can beat it with homoglyphs, and fourth, if you needed to hack one to host your fake site then hack another one when they cleaned that one up then you could.RobD said:
Simple, look for the website that ends in .gov.edmundintokyo said:Other thing about ESTA was that the airline staff had a special bit of paper explaining how to get to the right website for it, while avoiding all the scams. That tells you how often people end up at a fake site. Obviously anything that involves a confusing government program and your credit card is a great opportunity for scammers, who will buy ads for all the relevant keywords and make a nice, usable site that's easier to get to than the government's terrible one.
And even if you get the right website, it'll just be a matter of time until the government leaks your credit card number.
Squishing these scams is a whack-a-mole game, so just because you get to the right place at one particular time, with one particular search term, in one particular language, doesn't mean everyone will. This is why somebody at Narita had to make a special explanation for avoiding the scam sites and train their counter staff about it.0 -
And this is a surprise?Benpointer said:https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1073565794624245765
So much for a secret ballot, eh...
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Doesn't sound believable - the ballots didn't have identifying numbers, and there's no handwriting either, just an X (or obscene pictures in some, apparently).Benpointer said:
So much for a secret ballot, eh...
Unless we're talking 50s spycraft here, invisible ink etc.....
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We hold a model in our heads of how the world works, and are constantly surprised when it turns out differently. Leaving aside the animus that some people in the Republic feel towards the UK, the state itself is not an ally of the UK: it's not in NATO, it's neutral (well, non-aligned: not the same thing), does not always vote for us in international fora and occasionally votes against us.SeanT said:I confess I have developed a personal loathing for some Irish people during the debacle. One is the smug Irish prime minister. Another is "comic" Dara O'Brian, who ridicules Brexit and says he's sad for our country, meanwhile he vigorously supported Scottish independence, which would have bankrupted the Scots and ejected them from the UK AND the EU. Meanwhile he earns squillions in Britain from the BBC.
Some Irish people have a deep genetic hatred of Britain, which has been revealed of late. I guess it is understandable historically, but it gives the lie to the idea they are now our friends.
The UK and the Republic have for decades colluded in the belief that there's an overlap: the UK refuses to refer to Ireland as foreign, both countries refuse to erect a hard border, we may pass freely from one to the other. I've referred to this as "Ireland pretends to be independent and the UK pretends it isn't". That collusion could survive when we were in the EU but it will be more difficult hereafter, and possibly impossible.
I note yesterday that you suggested codominion of Northern Ireland between the UK and Ireland. You may wish to read up on Good Friday Agreement, which made some faltering steps towards this.
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Well yes.Sean_F said:
And this is a surprise?Benpointer said:https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1073565794624245765
So much for a secret ballot, eh...
If there is any vindictiveness from the whips or efforts to find out who these 12 were to punish them then this 100% validates the "payroll vote" moans from the ERG morons.
Way to snatch a moral defeat from the jaws of victory. Just accept it was a secret ballot, you won, move on!0 -
What I meant was it a surprise that 12 voted against? (I'd have thought the number was higher).Philip_Thompson said:
Well yes.Sean_F said:
And this is a surprise?Benpointer said:https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1073565794624245765
So much for a secret ballot, eh...
If there is any vindictiveness from the whips or efforts to find out who these 12 were to punish them then this 100% validates the "payroll vote" moans from the ERG morons.
Way to snatch a moral defeat from the jaws of victory. Just accept it was a secret ballot, you won, move on!0 -
We’ll have free trade agreement with those who want them but we won’t be tariff free with those who don’t - like the EU for example.Benpointer said:
Would that be "tariff income" in our brave new global free trade world?AmpfieldAndy said:We need to deregulate when we’re out, cut taxes such as corporation tax, boost investment and infrastructure, frame a proper immigration policy, set tariffs to suit us rather than be foisted by the Common e get along tariff and see who, if anyone, wants a trade deal.
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
Looks like ROI will get a hard border by default. That’s a shame. As 80% of their EU trade passes through Britain they’ll have a few problems.0 -
Fingerprints would be easy.Andrew said:
Doesn't sound believable - the ballots didn't have identifying numbers, and there's no handwriting either, just an X (or obscene pictures in some, apparently).Benpointer said:
So much for a secret ballot, eh...
Unless we're talking 50s spycraft here, invisible ink etc.....
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Not sure how critical that is but does something stop some farms from merging?rcs1000 said:
Belatedly, because I'm in meetings...Philip_Thompson said:
They should. It worked in New Zealand.rcs1000 said:
I'm not talking about whats right and whats wrong, but on what is politically possible.Philip_Thompson said:Because it's been such a disaster in New Zealand?
FFS its 2018. Why do people still argue tariffs work?
Conservative MPs, a great number of whom are from rural constituencies, are not going to vote to eliminate tariffs on the imports of agricultural produce from places with much lower costs of production.
England, average farm size under 50 hectars.
New Zealand, average farm size 252 hectars.0 -
Doesn’t it show their comments regarding the payroll vote were total bollocks?Philip_Thompson said:
Well yes.Sean_F said:
And this is a surprise?Benpointer said:https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1073565794624245765
So much for a secret ballot, eh...
If there is any vindictiveness from the whips or efforts to find out who these 12 were to punish them then this 100% validates the "payroll vote" moans from the ERG morons.
Way to snatch a moral defeat from the jaws of victory. Just accept it was a secret ballot, you won, move on!0 -
tottenhamWC said:
The problem with this is that no deal almost certainly leads to Corbyn.AmpfieldAndy said:We need to deregulate when we’re out, cut taxes such as corporation tax, boost investment and infrastructure, frame a proper immigration policy, set tariffs to suit us rather than be foisted by the Common e get along tariff and see who, if anyone, wants a trade deal.
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
Looks like ROI will get a hard border by default. That’s a shame. As 80% of their EU trade passes through Britain they’ll have a few problems.
Don't think he will be following that approach.....
We’ll get Corbyn anyway now. Keeping May in place ensures that.0 -
Sounds like it might be fake news anyway.MattW said:
I understood that the 10 Minute Rule bill was traditionally the domain of the attention-seeker.Benpointer said:
If this is defeated would it prevent another bill revoking A50 being introduced during this parliament? *worried face*Tissue_Price said:
In fairness Remain MPs in the HoC should probably leave it to Dominic Grieve to manage the legislative defeat of No Deal - he seems to be the only one capable of getting anything through parliement at the moment.0 -
May is more popular than the alternatives though - and we have time for a transition ahead of the next GE if the Govt doesn't implode.AmpfieldAndy said:tottenhamWC said:
The problem with this is that no deal almost certainly leads to Corbyn.AmpfieldAndy said:We need to deregulate when we’re out, cut taxes such as corporation tax, boost investment and infrastructure, frame a proper immigration policy, set tariffs to suit us rather than be foisted by the Common e get along tariff and see who, if anyone, wants a trade deal.
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
Looks like ROI will get a hard border by default. That’s a shame. As 80% of their EU trade passes through Britain they’ll have a few problems.
Don't think he will be following that approach.....
We’ll get Corbyn anyway now. Keeping May in place ensures that.0 -
What's the difference if you account for arable (or even market garden) v pastural farms?Philip_Thompson said:
Not sure how critical that is but does something stop some farms from merging?rcs1000 said:
Belatedly, because I'm in meetings...Philip_Thompson said:
They should. It worked in New Zealand.rcs1000 said:
I'm not talking about whats right and whats wrong, but on what is politically possible.Philip_Thompson said:Because it's been such a disaster in New Zealand?
FFS its 2018. Why do people still argue tariffs work?
Conservative MPs, a great number of whom are from rural constituencies, are not going to vote to eliminate tariffs on the imports of agricultural produce from places with much lower costs of production.
England, average farm size under 50 hectars.
New Zealand, average farm size 252 hectars.0 -
I think we finally found a use-case for voting systems on public blockchains. They could have used something like this and they'd have been good:Sean_F said:
And this is a surprise?Benpointer said:https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1073565794624245765
So much for a secret ballot, eh...
https://github.com/stonecoldpat/anonymousvoting0 -
And all those tariff-free deals will be agreed over the weekend of 30/31 March no doubt.AmpfieldAndy said:
We’ll have free trade agreement with those who want them but we won’t be tariff free with those who don’t - like the EU for example.Benpointer said:
Would that be "tariff income" in our brave new global free trade world?AmpfieldAndy said:We need to deregulate when we’re out, cut taxes such as corporation tax, boost investment and infrastructure, frame a proper immigration policy, set tariffs to suit us rather than be foisted by the Common e get along tariff and see who, if anyone, wants a trade deal.
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
Looks like ROI will get a hard border by default. That’s a shame. As 80% of their EU trade passes through Britain they’ll have a few problems.0 -
No. It is possible that other would be "No Confidence" voters in a truly secret ballot voted for May fearing they would be "outed" otherwise and face consequences.RobD said:
Doesn’t it show their comments regarding the payroll vote were total bollocks?Philip_Thompson said:
Well yes.Sean_F said:
And this is a surprise?Benpointer said:https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1073565794624245765
So much for a secret ballot, eh...
If there is any vindictiveness from the whips or efforts to find out who these 12 were to punish them then this 100% validates the "payroll vote" moans from the ERG morons.
Way to snatch a moral defeat from the jaws of victory. Just accept it was a secret ballot, you won, move on!
If other MPs thought like Sean_F and saw vengeance from whips coming it could have swung critical votes.0 -
If Brexit has revealed anything to the British, it's that Ireland wasn't pretending.viewcode said:The UK and the Republic have for decades colluded in the belief that there's an overlap: the UK refuses to refer to Ireland as foreign, both countries refuse to erect a hard border, we may pass freely from one to the other. I've referred to this as "Ireland pretends to be independent and the UK pretends it isn't". That collusion could survive when we were in the EU but it will be more difficult hereafter, and possibly impossible.
PS - There very much was a hard border before the EU single market.
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Doubt it - that’s why we’ll get tariff income.Benpointer said:
And all those tariff-free deals will be agreed over the weekend of 30/31 March no doubt.AmpfieldAndy said:
We’ll have free trade agreement with those who want them but we won’t be tariff free with those who don’t - like the EU for example.Benpointer said:
Would that be "tariff income" in our brave new global free trade world?AmpfieldAndy said:We need to deregulate when we’re out, cut taxes such as corporation tax, boost investment and infrastructure, frame a proper immigration policy, set tariffs to suit us rather than be foisted by the Common e get along tariff and see who, if anyone, wants a trade deal.
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
Looks like ROI will get a hard border by default. That’s a shame. As 80% of their EU trade passes through Britain they’ll have a few problems.0 -
What is it with the EU demanding that countries vote until they give the right answer?Scott_P said:0 -
And more recently...williamglenn said:
If Brexit has revealed anything to the British, it's that Ireland wasn't pretending.viewcode said:The UK and the Republic have for decades colluded in the belief that there's an overlap: the UK refuses to refer to Ireland as foreign, both countries refuse to erect a hard border, we may pass freely from one to the other. I've referred to this as "Ireland pretends to be independent and the UK pretends it isn't". That collusion could survive when we were in the EU but it will be more difficult hereafter, and possibly impossible.
PS - There very much was a hard border before the EU single market.
irishnews.com/news/2015/10/22/news/-ira-claims-it-fired-shots-at-tyrone-psni-station-301731/0 -
tottenhamWC said:
May is more popular than the alternatives though - and we have time for a transition ahead of the next GE if the Govt doesn't implode.AmpfieldAndy said:tottenhamWC said:
The problem with this is that no deal almost certainly leads to Corbyn.AmpfieldAndy said:We need to deregulate when we’re out, cut taxes such as corporation tax, boost investment and infrastructure, frame a proper immigration policy, set tariffs to suit us rather than be foisted by the Common e get along tariff and see who, if anyone, wants a trade deal.
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
Looks like ROI will get a hard border by default. That’s a shame. As 80% of their EU trade passes through Britain they’ll have a few problems.
Don't think he will be following that approach.....
We’ll get Corbyn anyway now. Keeping May in place ensures that.
Only because of name recognition. She blew a 20% lead in the polls last time and despite problems with anti semitism and misogyny, Labour are still level in the polls. I can’t see anyone being worse than May except maybe Johnson.0 -
Remember, Grieve ended up not voting for his own amendment in recent history. #FaithMisplacedBenpointer said:
Sounds like it might be fake news anyway.MattW said:
I understood that the 10 Minute Rule bill was traditionally the domain of the attention-seeker.Benpointer said:
If this is defeated would it prevent another bill revoking A50 being introduced during this parliament? *worried face*Tissue_Price said:
In fairness Remain MPs in the HoC should probably leave it to Dominic Grieve to manage the legislative defeat of No Deal - he seems to be the only one capable of getting anything through parliement at the moment.0 -
Indeed. The only way for the Tories to stay in power is to vote May's deal through, get through Brexit day painlessly, elect a new leader and call a GE for the spring under the slogan "We've delivered Brexit". Then they might have an outside chance of retaining power - I suspect they will mop up votes from the masses who are throroughly fed up with the whole Brexit saga.tottenhamWC said:
May is more popular than the alternatives though - and we have time for a transition ahead of the next GE if the Govt doesn't implode.AmpfieldAndy said:tottenhamWC said:
The problem with this is that no deal almost certainly leads to Corbyn.AmpfieldAndy said:We need to deregulate when we’re out, cut taxes such as corporation tax, boost investment and infrastructure, frame a proper immigration policy, set tariffs to suit us rather than be foisted by the Common e get along tariff and see who, if anyone, wants a trade deal.
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
Looks like ROI will get a hard border by default. That’s a shame. As 80% of their EU trade passes through Britain they’ll have a few problems.
Don't think he will be following that approach.....
We’ll get Corbyn anyway now. Keeping May in place ensures that.
The problem is that a) too many of their own MPs put their hatred of the deal before their love of the party and b) the DUP will not support the deal (though they could probably be bought off)0 -
Although if she owns the process, which will be painful over the next few months - likely culminating in a referendum, it means a new Tory leader beyond this won't have all of the negative accompanying baggage....AmpfieldAndy said:tottenhamWC said:
May is more popular than the alternatives though - and we have time for a transition ahead of the next GE if the Govt doesn't implode.AmpfieldAndy said:tottenhamWC said:
The problem with this is that no deal almost certainly leads to Corbyn.AmpfieldAndy said:We need to deregulate when we’re out, cut taxes such as corporation tax, boost investment and infrastructure, frame a proper immigration policy, set tariffs to suit us rather than be foisted by the Common e get along tariff and see who, if anyone, wants a trade deal.
The £ 39 bn we save from a no deal will help as will the tariff income from U.K. imports andthe boost to fishing.
Looks like ROI will get a hard border by default. That’s a shame. As 80% of their EU trade passes through Britain they’ll have a few problems.
Don't think he will be following that approach.....
We’ll get Corbyn anyway now. Keeping May in place ensures that.
Only because of name recognition. She blew a 20% lead in the polls last time and despite problems with anti semitism and misogyny, Labour are still level in the polls. I can’t see anyone being worse than May except maybe Johnson.0 -
Given the whip's previous effectiveness, they'll probably make the wrong conclusion, discipline the wrong people, and then leak the entire shambles to the press.Benpointer said:https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1073565794624245765
So much for a secret ballot, eh...0 -
Typical Brexit-o-loon. Only so much democracy they can bear.Richard_Tyndall said:0 -
You ask everyone how they voted, looking them in the eyes, and list the lot in order from most trustworthy supporter through to most adamant opponent. You then compare the number of declared supporters with the actual number of votes, and check your list to try and identify the excess who are telling porkies.dixiedean said:
Fingerprints would be easy.Andrew said:
Doesn't sound believable - the ballots didn't have identifying numbers, and there's no handwriting either, just an X (or obscene pictures in some, apparently).Benpointer said:
So much for a secret ballot, eh...
Unless we're talking 50s spycraft here, invisible ink etc.....0 -
Your personal history in Northern Ireland and frequent visits do not necessarily give you insight into NI and even less into the Republic, especially the inner workings of the State. I value your insights (and subsequent articles) when derived from personal experience but that experience is anecdotal and by necessity incomplete.Alanbrooke said:lol bloodshed ? Where ? I was on the island a fortnight ago - nothing. Really its crazy ramping ike this which more likely to bring out the guns than just letting the sleeping dogs lie.
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