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Goodness, what question on earth is Dominic Raab the answer to?

Danny565 said:

Goodness, what question on earth is Dominic Raab the answer to?

Name the Buccaneering Brexiteer who only recently realised Britain is an island near France.

SeanT said:

grabcocque said:

SeanT said:

https://twitter.com/marcburleigh/status/1072609761441562624

Not mentioned, oddly, his race or religion.
Hmmmmmm.

It has been mentioned. He's an Arab, radicalised, and known to police. They went to arrest him.

It's a terror attack.

Has anything been said about the guy held by armed police earlier today at parliament?

grabcocque said:

kle4 said:

grabcocque said:

kle4 said:

grabcocque said:

numbertwelve said:

It is utterly unbelievable that 3 months away from Brexit the Tory Party (or at least a sizeable chunk of the parliamentary party) thinks it’d be a good idea to have a protracted leadership election.

Ye gods, they have totally lost the plot.

It won't be protracted, it'll be a coronation again, or near as dammit.

It had better be, the country does not have time for this crap.

Mrs May tried the Bored of Brexit angle, and look where it got her.

We're not bored of it, we need them to be the opposite of bored - pissing about with internal squabbles rather than focusing on the ticking clock, is a distraction.

But this is about Brexit. Everything is about Brexit. Specifically, this is about May having lost the trust of both leavers and remainers.

I'm not saying don't ditch May. I'm saying there's no time for a pointless pissing contest between the Tories. It's pointless since they won't have unity at the end of it anyway, so better to have a simple, broad strategy under an interim leader, not waste time posturing to the membership and delaying the period in which action can be taken.

kle4 said:

The Tories need an interim leader to agree to try to renegotiate then do managed no deal

Instant VONC

Would Raab supporters be Raabies?

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1072616493735661569

Gollum May

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucJ6RPez06s

Jonathan said:

Would Raab supporters be Raabies?

Surely just a Raable?

Scott_P said:

kle4 said:

The Tories need an interim leader to agree to try to renegotiate then do managed no deal

Instant VONC

Yes, maybe. But no more bloody unicorns.

You can get Raab as next PM at 8 as opposed to 5 for next leader.

Anazina said:

Sean

@Cyclefree voted Remain I think.

I don't think she has declared that, though is clearly leaning Remain now.

Anazina said:

Sean

@Cyclefree voted Remain I think.

I am almost certain that she has never declared how she voted in the end. As of course is her absolute right.

Anazina said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I’m going to regret this tweet in the morning.

https://twitter.com/tseofpb/status/1072613241744957440?s=21

Another PB Liverpool fan who does not come from Merseyside

*puts hand up* One here as well.

https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1072617803444838400

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1072618105241825280

Interesting editorial stance. Again.

JohnO said:

Anazina said:

Sean

@Cyclefree voted Remain I think.

I am almost certain that she has never declared how she voted in the end. As of course is her absolute right.

Remain voter.

Luckyguy1983 said:

FF43 said:

david_herdson said:

On topic, this can only end with No Deal.

Either the Con MPs crown a leader unopposed, which can only realistically be done by signing in blood against the three points of contention with the WA - Backstop, Irish Sea border, CJEU role - or there will be a contest in which a Hard Leaver will win. Neither way can produce a deal with the EU.

Could Labour take over and prevent that outcome? It's possible but I don't see why the DUP would forego their kingmaker position and install two IRA sympathisers in Downing St when their biggest beef with the government would have fallen by the wayside. Better from their point of view to keep the Tories in power and squeeze concessions vote by vote.

How about an A50 extension? I doubt a new Con leader could (never mind would) ask for one but on what basis? The red lines produce no overlap.

Chances of another referendum? I don't see it. With no deal on offer, a new government isn't going to offer No Deal vs Remain, and I don't see how the opposition force it - certainly not in three months.

No, we're going to crash out. Merry Christmas.

A No Deal is quite likely but highly unlikely to end there. The contradictions of Brexit can only be resolved through crisis. No Deal is a new form of denial.

There's no contradiction of 'Brexit'. The contradiction was our spell as part of the EU, which is mercifully coming to an end.

There is no contradiction, of you don't mind submitting to the Vassal State and / or cutting yourself off from a chunk of your prosperity, job possibilities and the sort of healthcare and welfare that the Leave demographic consume in disproportionate quantities, while you also cut yourself off from Europe. The tiny majority thought they were "taking back control" and Brexit wouldn't cost them anything, however .

Hence the crisis.

Chris_A said:

Scott_P said:

kle4 said:

The Tories need an interim leader to agree to try to renegotiate then do managed no deal

Instant VONC

And if the new leader is more to the DUP's liking then Corbyn is well and truly stuffed.

How so? Or do you mean for his chances of forcing an election?

Paristonda said:

I think May will still win a confidence vote. Tory remainers don't yet have a better option lined up, and have generally been more skittish about rebellions than the ERGers so far.

If she does win, there is perhaps one roll of the dice she can take to try and get her deal approved - call another election with her deal in the manifesto. Think it would actually be her best chance - Labour are not exactly soaring right now, she could potentially still beat Corbyn in an election.

I think yesterday sank her - if she put them through weeks of discussion then formal debate when it was clear it would not pass, then waited until the last minute to pull it, what respect does she have for them and what should they have for her?

As for an election, accepting that if she said there should be one (and Corbyn would no doubt agree), there's no way all the Tory MPs agree to stand on a manifesto commitment of the deal. You have the ERG lot for whom it is anathema, the waverers who know the public don't like the deal, and they would face Labour promising magic unicorns in that they would promise remainers they might remain, and leavers that they would get a better deal.

Paristonda said:

I think May will still win a confidence vote. Tory remainers don't yet have a better option lined up, and have generally been more skittish about rebellions than the ERGers so far.

If she does win, there is perhaps one roll of the dice she can take to try and get her deal approved - call another election with her deal in the manifesto. Think it would actually be her best chance - Labour are not exactly soaring right now, she could potentially still beat Corbyn in an election.

There is a live risk of an election within the next 12 months. A win on the VONC means she is bomb-proof during that 12 months. MPs have to consider May's record in 2017 and on delivering Brexit and ask themselves "Do you want to give her your support - and risk having Theresa May fronting another election?"

She loses on that question alone.

Foxy said:

Jonathan said:

Would Raab supporters be Raabies?

Surely just a Raable?

Raabelaisians?

kle4 said:

Paristonda said:

I think May will still win a confidence vote. Tory remainers don't yet have a better option lined up, and have generally been more skittish about rebellions than the ERGers so far.

If she does win, there is perhaps one roll of the dice she can take to try and get her deal approved - call another election with her deal in the manifesto. Think it would actually be her best chance - Labour are not exactly soaring right now, she could potentially still beat Corbyn in an election.

I think yesterday sank her - if she put them through weeks of discussion then formal debate when it was clear it would not pass, then waited until the last minute to pull it, what respect does she have for them and what should they have for her?

As for an election, accepting that if she said there should be one (and Corbyn would no doubt agree), there's no way all the Tory MPs agree to stand on a manifesto commitment of the deal. You have the ERG lot for whom it is anathema, the waverers who know the public don't like the deal, and they would face Labour promising magic unicorns in that they would promise remainers they might remain, and leavers that they would get a better deal.

Yesterday revealed May was useless. Hitherto there was some doubt. Maybe she had a plan. There was something clever we just couldn’t see.

As it turned out there was no plan. There was denial, incompetence and finally panic and skin saving.

Not good. She has to go. She has I’m afraid let the country down badly by occupying a key role at the key moment.

MarqueeMark said:

Paristonda said:

I think May will still win a confidence vote. Tory remainers don't yet have a better option lined up, and have generally been more skittish about rebellions than the ERGers so far.

If she does win, there is perhaps one roll of the dice she can take to try and get her deal approved - call another election with her deal in the manifesto. Think it would actually be her best chance - Labour are not exactly soaring right now, she could potentially still beat Corbyn in an election.

There is a live risk of an election within the next 12 months. A win on the VONC means she is bomb-proof during that 12 months. MPs have to consider May's record in 2017 and on delivering Brexit and ask themselves "Do you want to give her your support - and risk having Theresa May fronting another election?"

She loses on that question alone.

Not when Johnson is looming into view

grabcocque said:

There is no way that the Tories pivot to No Deal and the party doesn't implode.

And yet there's nowhere else for them to turn. Unless PM Raab is a lot more convincing pleading with the EU to revisit things than May is, they and their members are too leavery to revoke A50 and too frightened of remaining to propose a referendum, and too opposed to the deal to include that in such a vote even if they were not, which gets them to the same place - the Tories are very shortly to be the no deal party. Labour will attempt to get a GE, and if that fails they will simply keep saying they would have gotten a better deal or switch to remain.

Either the government is brought down and the Tories lose a resulting election when Corbyn cannot get anything through, or we do no deal and they limp on as long as they can, praying it is not that bad after all.

Theuniondivvie said:

Foxy said:

Jonathan said:

Would Raab supporters be Raabies?

Surely just a Raable?

Raabelaisians?

His attempt to get the top job: The Raabid.......

I have never declared my vote because I disliked intensely the way people insulted each other on here as Remoaners / xenophobes etc. It added nothing to the discussion and was most unseemly and I wanted to have nothing to do with it.

If a 2nd referendum was held now and Remain was an option I would probably now vote Remain, not because I'm a eurofanatic but because those in favour of Brexit have had their chance and been shown utterly wanting. And because the geopolitical situation has IMO become more dangerous and uncertain in the last two years and this is no time for Britain to isolate itself.

FPT I'd like to understand what sort of planning for No Deal Floater's company has done. A true "No Deal" or a No Deal where lots of mini-deals are done to keep planes flying etc. Or what?

And in what sector?

I had hoped that a deal of some kind would be reached. It now looks as if it won't be. The Tories are being utterly irresponsible and self-indulgent in the way they are approaching this issue, as are Labour. Taking risks with our country, with our relationship with our closest neighbours, with our reputation in this way is unforgivable.

I hope that it won't be a disaster. I really do. But I fear it will and that what comes after will be even worse.

Ah well. Time to read a good book and listen to some decent music.

And condolences to the French - yet again - for what has happened in Strasbourg.

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1072618105241825280

Interesting editorial stance. Again.

Looks resigned - she failed to get support from Europe, so it's the end is how I read it.

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1072618105241825280

Interesting editorial stance. Again.

Looks resigned - she failed to get support from Europe, so it's the end is how I read it.

I

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Anazina said:

kle4 said:

Anazina said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I’m going to regret this tweet in the morning.

https://twitter.com/tseofpb/status/1072613241744957440?s=21

Another PB Liverpool fan who does not come from Merseyside

*puts hand up* One here as well.

Glory grabbing is strong on PB.

DavidL supports Man Utd.

He’s Scottish.

I have supported Man Utd since 1954 but then I was born within 5 miles of the ground

Sadly, you are in a minority. It would seem that most PBers are glory grabbers, choosing big clubs over their hometown club.

dixiedean said:

Chris_A said:

Scott_P said:

kle4 said:

The Tories need an interim leader to agree to try to renegotiate then do managed no deal

Instant VONC

And if the new leader is more to the DUP's liking then Corbyn is well and truly stuffed.

How so? Or do you mean for his chances of forcing an election?

There's no way Corbyn will win a VoNC if the Tories have the DUP on board unless the Tories split.

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1072621501474635776

No glory here; I support Newcastle United. 😭

https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1072617065738051584

Does Brady accept email?

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Anazina said:

kle4 said:

Anazina said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I’m going to regret this tweet in the morning.

https://twitter.com/tseofpb/status/1072613241744957440?s=21

Another PB Liverpool fan who does not come from Merseyside

*puts hand up* One here as well.

Glory grabbing is strong on PB.

DavidL supports Man Utd.

He’s Scottish.

I have supported Man Utd since 1954 but then I was born within 5 miles of the ground

Surely Maine Road FC should be your team?

AlastairMeeks said:

Theresa May has had her chips. I expect the time is coming soon enough when we will look back fondly on the halcyon days of her premiership.

Some will pity her. Yet people are entitled to be quite angry with May. She got things very wrong, she was warned repeatedly and ignored it.

rottenborough said:

twitter.com/adamboultonSKY/status/1072620747036741637

Hand bags out.

https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1072622132214018048

Evening all. I feel sorry for May. She has tried and clearly failed to unite the party behind a compromise Brexit deal. I don’t see how installing a new true believer leader is going unite the party or get a better deal. They will go for no deal and the moderate MPs will not stand for that. Corbyn PM here we come.

Raab is the German name for the Hungarian city of Győr. That’s the most interesting thing I can think of about that.

AlastairMeeks said:

Theresa May has had her chips. I expect the time is coming soon enough when we will look back fondly on the halcyon days of her premiership.

The way we're going that will be in about 6 weeks time.

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/adamboultonSKY/status/1072620747036741637

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1072621272650186753

YellowSubmarine said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1072621501474635776

No one comments on how this catastrophe is quietly building a majority for Remain.

Oh the irony, that in the search for the perfectly formed specimen of the unicorn, the ultras throw away their decades long quest for the prize.

Laugh? I nearly died.

YellowSubmarine said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1072621501474635776

No one comments on how this catastrophe is quietly building a majority for Remain.

Yep - no deal Brexit will finish off the Tories I fear. It is incredibly unpopular and (fortunately) people don't vote on the basis of Brexit alone..... another referendum especially if backed by the HoC and largely supported by Labour, on the back of TM's deal failing, is their only get out of jail....

Scott_P said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/adamboultonSKY/status/1072620747036741637

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1072621272650186753

I was going to write 'Sod off back to California', but looks like others are doing the heavy lifting tonight.

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Theresa May has had her chips. I expect the time is coming soon enough when we will look back fondly on the halcyon days of her premiership.

The way we're going that will be in about 6 weeks time.

I’ve pointed out ever since the referendum result that Britain has entered a long term serious decline. It was one of those inflexion point moments. It has a long way to run yet.

numbertwelve said:

Jonathan said:

kle4 said:

Paristonda said:

I think May will still win a confidence vote. Tory remainers don't yet have a better option lined up, and have generally been more skittish about rebellions than the ERGers so far.

If she does win, there is perhaps one roll of the dice she can take to try and get her deal approved - call another election with her deal in the manifesto. Think it would actually be her best chance - Labour are not exactly soaring right now, she could potentially still beat Corbyn in an election.

I think yesterday sank her - if she put them through weeks of discussion then formal debate when it was clear it would not pass, then waited until the last minute to pull it, what respect does she have for them and what should they have for her?

As for an election, accepting that if she said there should be one (and Corbyn would no doubt agree), there's no way all the Tory MPs agree to stand on a manifesto commitment of the deal. You have the ERG lot for whom it is anathema, the waverers who know the public don't like the deal, and they would face Labour promising magic unicorns in that they would promise remainers they might remain, and leavers that they would get a better deal.

Yesterday revealed May was useless. Hitherto there was some doubt. Maybe she had a plan. There was something clever we just couldn’t see.

As it turned out there was no plan. There was denial, incompetence and finally panic and skin saving.

Not good. She has to go. She has I’m afraid let the country down badly by occupying a key role at the key moment.

I don’t think any leader could have done any better (post-election, I think we all agree she was useless at GE2017) to be frank. She has tried to please everyone and in the end has pleased no-one, but this was always going to be the sort of deal that would have been on the table that at least went some way to ending free movement.

I have a lot of sympathy for her actually. I think she is a fundamentally decent person and she has tried her best. I think the nail in the coffin was the derision that welcomed her deal in parliament, she is facing lots of hostile factions and unreasonable people and pragmatism has lost out.

I doubt history will be incredibly kind, but I do think it will note that she was faced with an impossible situation in the past year or so.

She has taken our nation to the brink. Her duty and steadfastness was actually ego and intransigence.

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1072622133698801664

Gallowgate said:

No glory here; I support Newcastle United. 😭

Former glory here: two European Cup stars on the Forest shirt.

SeanT said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Comedians invited to perform at a benefit gig at Soas University of London have been sent a “behavioural agreement” that forbids them from tackling any topic in a way that is not “respectful and kind”.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/dec/11/comedians-asked-to-sign-behavioural-agreement-for-soas-gig

SAD....also, Islamophobia gets a name check, as does anti-religion or anti-atheism, but not antisemitism.

And WTF is "ableism" ?

My wife went to SOAS. She's on the Left, but even she found it unbearable. It has been a hyena's nest of vile and lunatic politics for decades. They should close it down, demolish it, and sow the vacant ground with salt.

You love it really.