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If you don't think the CBI's views are relevant, ignore them.grabcocque said:"Rabidly eurofederalist organisation supports Tories' humiliating capitulation to the EU" shouldn't really be considered news.
Other people listen to them and we should give those people a chance.
Perhaps you could circulate in advance the list of usual suspects you will ignore, you know, before you know their views.0 -
So 40 odd ERG types will vote against the bill
And also 250 Labour MPs will vote against the bill
yet all the media focus is on the ERG.
Seems er - well..0 -
How many votes in Parliament do you think the CBI will flip?TheWhiteRabbit said:
If you don't think the CBI's views are relevant, ignore them.grabcocque said:"Rabidly eurofederalist organisation supports Tories' humiliating capitulation to the EU" shouldn't really be considered news.
Other people listen to them and we should give those people a chance.0 -
If the CBI had said "non", probably 20-30.grabcocque said:
How many votes in Parliament do you think the CBI will flip?TheWhiteRabbit said:
If you don't think the CBI's views are relevant, ignore them.grabcocque said:"Rabidly eurofederalist organisation supports Tories' humiliating capitulation to the EU" shouldn't really be considered news.
Other people listen to them and we should give those people a chance.0 -
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Easier than winning a referendum I suppose.Beverley_C said:
GoodXenon said:
No deal won't be allowed on the ballot paper.Nemtynakht said:
Personally I think we should have EUref3 when “no deal” wins.Slackbladder said:
Exactly. As a tory voter I would then utterly support that too. Not my ideal outcome (that would be a sensible leave deal), but more sensible than the chaos of no-deal.HYUFD said:
I will instantly switch to pushing EUref2 if May's Deal is voted down as will many Tory MPs and I suspect most of the Commons and quite likely ultimately May herself.Slackbladder said:
No they won't. There is no majority in the house for that. As soon as May falls, a good proportion of the Consverative Party will push to block exactly that, and potentially push for an extention and a referendum.Xenon said:
Outmaneuvered? You mean being completely lied to repeatedly to run down the clock so it means we can't actually leave the EU in anything but name.kle4 said:
So...even if it is a disaster and the alternative is not, we should choose disaster because the people framing the choice for the alternative outmaneuvered the other side and that's not fair?Xenon said:
So it looks to Brexiteers that they are trying to bounce us into a crap deal by purposely by making the alternative impossible. And I'm right behind them not standing for it.Richard_Nabavi said:
C'mon, i euros worth of derivative contracts, and we wouldn't even awal deal on the table.Xenon said:
If one doesn't think the other option is non-disaster that is different.
The alternative is to get rid of her and start preparing for no deal now, whilst trying to get an extension to the leaving date.
This deal won't get through parliament, so they need to do this anyway.
If the ERG end up with EUref2 and Remain they have nobody to blame but themselves
They'll keep us in by hook or by crook.0 -
The StandUp4Brexit squad say there are 53 Tory MPs declared against it, and that's not including any of those that resigned last week.TGOHF said:So 40 odd ERG types will vote against the bill
And also 250 Labour MPs will vote against the bill
yet all the media focus is on the ERG.
Seems er - well..
By the time this comes to a vote, May's ability to turn everything she touches to shit, she may well have flipped a few more and pushed that up to 70 Tories against.0 -
Seemingly so.Xenon said:
Easier than winning a referendum I suppose.Beverley_C said:
GoodXenon said:
No deal won't be allowed on the ballot paper.Nemtynakht said:
Personally I think we should have EUref3 when “no deal” wins.Slackbladder said:
Exactly. As a tory voter I would then utterly support that too. Not my ideal outcome (that would be a sensible leave deal), but more sensible than the chaos of no-deal.HYUFD said:
I will instantly switch to pushing EUref2 if May's Deal is voted down as will many Tory MPs and I suspect most of the Commons and quite likely ultimately May herself.Slackbladder said:
No they won't. There is no majority in the house for that. As soon as May falls, a good proportion of the Consverative Party will push to block exactly that, and potentially push for an extention and a referendum.Xenon said:
Outmaneuvered? You mean being completely lied to repeatedly to run down the clock so it means we can't actually leave the EU in anything but name.kle4 said:
So...even if it is a disaster and the alternative is not, we should choose disaster because the people framing the choice for the alternative outmaneuvered the other side and that's not fair?Xenon said:
So it looks to Brexiteers that they are trying to bounce us into a crap deal by purposely by making the alternative impossible. And I'm right behind them not standing for it.Richard_Nabavi said:
C'mon, i euros worth of derivative contracts, and we wouldn't even awal deal on the table.Xenon said:
If one doesn't think the other option is non-disaster that is different.
The alternative is to get rid of her and start preparing for no deal now, whilst trying to get an extension to the leaving date.
This deal won't get through parliament, so they need to do this anyway.
If the ERG end up with EUref2 and Remain they have nobody to blame but themselves
They'll keep us in by hook or by crook.0 -
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So -- ignoring your counterfactual for a second -- in the universe we *currently* inhabit, you don't think the CBI will change any minds at all?TheWhiteRabbit said:
If the CBI had said "non", probably 20-30.grabcocque said:
How many votes in Parliament do you think the CBI will flip?TheWhiteRabbit said:
If you don't think the CBI's views are relevant, ignore them.grabcocque said:"Rabidly eurofederalist organisation supports Tories' humiliating capitulation to the EU" shouldn't really be considered news.
Other people listen to them and we should give those people a chance.
I'm inclined to agree with you.0 -
Do they have a list?grabcocque said:
The StandUp4Brexit squad say there are 53 Tory MPs declared against it, and that's not including any of those that resigned last week.TGOHF said:So 40 odd ERG types will vote against the bill
And also 250 Labour MPs will vote against the bill
yet all the media focus is on the ERG.
Seems er - well..
By the time this comes to a vote, May's ability to turn everything she touches to shit, she may well have flipped a few more and pushed that up to 70 Tories against.0 -
No. Frank Field has resigned the Whip. Am not aware of Chukka having done so.Scrapheap_as_was said:
and Chukka is now is he? Things do move fast....dixiedean said:
And he isn't even Labour!ralphmalph said:Chukka on Politics Live saying he would be surprised if any Labour MP voted for the deal. Only possibility he thinks is Frank Field.
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I don't mean they'd have said "no deal".grabcocque said:
So -- ignoring your counterfactual for a second -- in the universe we *currently* inhabit, you don't think the CBI will change any minds at all?TheWhiteRabbit said:
If the CBI had said "non", probably 20-30.grabcocque said:
How many votes in Parliament do you think the CBI will flip?TheWhiteRabbit said:
If you don't think the CBI's views are relevant, ignore them.grabcocque said:"Rabidly eurofederalist organisation supports Tories' humiliating capitulation to the EU" shouldn't really be considered news.
Other people listen to them and we should give those people a chance.
I'm inclined to agree with you.
But they might have said "the only way to protect British jobs is to remain". That, I think, would have given much succour to those on both sides of the house that want a second referendum.
They were however expected to back the deal, so they are only doing what is expected.0 -
O/T
"White British five-year-olds bottom of class in reading"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/white-british-five-year-olds-bottom-of-class-in-reading-05dxn83kw0 -
Aren't there a few who represent strong Leave constituencies?grabcocque said:
Momentum has more than proven capable of moving swiftly against MPs that betray the leadership.Stereotomy said:
There's still the chance of them abstaining. There's no indication that they will, but something about the idea of Labour holding their nerve en masse just seems hard to imagine.grabcocque said:Any Labour MP who backs May's deal will be deselected faster than the time it takes their ass to hit the pavement outside their constituency party office.
The only Labour MPs who would even consider it are those that are retiring or have already been deselected.
And Kate Hoey already said she's opposed.
Which leaves, what, around 2 MPs?
You're asking Labour MPs to, en masse, risk ending their political careers to save a Tory PM, and a deal they almost certainly hate, and to end the opportunity to get a people's vote or a general election.
For a Labour MP to do that would be, frankly, insane beyond redemption.
Incidentally, I find that my MP here in glorious Gloucestershire where I now abide is one Laurence Robertson, who has written openly to ask for the defenestration of our beloved PM. I can only assume it is because that sort of thing helps entrench his majority of twenty thousand or so.
Laurence clearly appreciates on which side his bread is buttered.
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TheScreamingEagles said:
Anyone bet on this match ?
https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/1064465110716964865?s=21
The question is, did anyone else?0 -
"As a collector and connoisseur of bad coup attempts, I’m afraid the ERG is still some way short of the amusing attempt to replace Ed Miliband with Alan Johnson, where the conspirators forgot to ask Alan Johnson first if he was up for it."
https://twitter.com/politic_animal/status/10645127808485130240 -
Juncker & Co have not covered themselves with glory. Having said that, I hold no animosity towards Barnier - he is merely doing a good job of implementing the brief he has been given and Verhofstadt seems very sympathetic to the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:
Allow me to load the rifles...…Beverley_C said:
Indeed we are. I feel our politicians should be first against the wall when the revolution comesPeter_the_Punter said:
And mine.Beverley_C said:
Perhaps they think that if they keep pushing the party lines then the rest of us will accept fantasy as reality and march arm-in-arm into a rosy future whilst they, the faithful, are rewarded by the party for pulling the wool over the eyes of the gullible.Stereotomy said:I really think that supporters of the deal here on pb should join me in my "pox on both their houses" saloon.
My cynicism seems to have increased markedly in the last few weeks.
Whilst I retain small hopes for a return to Remain, it is only in accordance with the betting adage that when in a hole it is best to stop digging. It wouldn't actually makes things better, it would just stop them from getting worse.
We really are watching a slow-motion train crash.
They are not the only culpable ones. I'd have Juncker and allies in the second batch for extermination, and many other groups and individuals to follow, but the part played by the Conservative has to be the most culpable.
It has to be the most chronic example of political and administrative incompetence we have seen in this country since Lord North and pals lost the Colonies.0 -
Tory GE Manifesto
We dont have any actual policies and hey we may have fucked up Brexit but the alternative is Jezza.
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What on earth is Olivia Tobin at the Evening Standard talking about?
"What is a 'no confidence' vote?
A 'no confidence vote' takes place if the Prime Minister is no longer deemed fit to hold her role by her own MPs (...)
What would happen next?
If this is the case, what is known as a two-week ‘cooling off’ period will commence.
During this time, Parliament is dissolved, although Mrs May would still remain in Downing Street.
If the Tories cannot choose a new leader and form a new Government with the support of a majority of MPs within 14 calendar days, an early General Election is triggered."
Was her piece simply not read by a grownup before publication, or is someone trying to stir "VONC" together with "GE" in people's minds?0 -
That's 36% right there.bigjohnowls said:Tory GE Manifesto
We dont have any actual policies and hey we may have fucked up Brexit but the alternative is Jezza.0 -
www.youtube.com/watch?v=roYOWDR82TQTheScreamingEagles said:Anyone bet on this match ?
https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/1064465110716964865?s=210 -
From a business point of view, it makes sense as it removes a set of currency fluctuations and thus simplifies deals, contracts and purchases.grabcocque said:0 -
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:0 -
Somebody has confused being NC-ed by her party vs being NC-ed by Parliament under the FTPA.Notch said:What on earth is Olivia Tobin at the Evening Standard talking about?
"What is a 'no confidence' vote?
A 'no confidence vote' takes place if the Prime Minister is no longer deemed fit to hold her role by her own MPs (...)
What would happen next?
If this is the case, what is known as a two-week ‘cooling off’ period will commence.
During this time, Parliament is dissolved, although Mrs May would still remain in Downing Street.
If the Tories cannot choose a new leader and form a new Government with the support of a majority of MPs within 14 calendar days, an early General Election is triggered."
Was her piece simply not read by a grownup before publication, or is someone trying to stir "VONC" together with "GE" in people's minds?0 -
That was me!!!Pulpstar said:Are big business and the CBI joining the ranks of traitors and saboteurs (Which now includes May herself) today ?
@AlastairMeeks Was not wrong when he said to buy shares in betrayal.
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I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
Anyone bet on this match ?
https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/1064465110716964865?s=21
My dodgy Indian bookmaker spidey-senses are going off....0 -
26 Jun 2018 - Evening Standard welcomes Olivia Tobin as an Online Reporter. Olivia was previously a Reporter at Croydon Advertiser.Notch said:What on earth is Olivia Tobin at the Evening Standard talking about?
"What is a 'no confidence' vote?
A 'no confidence vote' takes place if the Prime Minister is no longer deemed fit to hold her role by her own MPs (...)
What would happen next?
If this is the case, what is known as a two-week ‘cooling off’ period will commence.
During this time, Parliament is dissolved, although Mrs May would still remain in Downing Street.
If the Tories cannot choose a new leader and form a new Government with the support of a majority of MPs within 14 calendar days, an early General Election is triggered."
Was her piece simply not read by a grownup before publication, or is someone trying to stir "VONC" together with "GE" in people's minds?
No deep conspiracy at work. Astonishing, but that's how things roll in newsrooms these days. Particularly when all the editor really cares about are tweetable cartoons and high-profile opinion pieces. And when there aren't any readers paying any money.0 -
Sol Campbells?SouthamObserver said:
That was me!!!Pulpstar said:Are big business and the CBI joining the ranks of traitors and saboteurs (Which now includes May herself) today ?
@AlastairMeeks Was not wrong when he said to buy shares in betrayal.0 -
As a connoisseur of logical absurdities, I'm finding plenty to keep me going. In a strong field, DD's ConHome article today is surely the stand-out winner.grabcocque said:
I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:0 -
Mays deal would be resoundingly defeated.Sean_Fear said:
A two-option referendum would be a gerrymander.eek said:
The more I look at it the more I see a referendum coming with 2 options:-Scrapheap_as_was said:
So it might be december now....rottenborough said:It's getting utterly pathetic now:
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1064477588444327936
If it's such an almighty struggle to get to just 48 people out of 300+ MPs... is there not a clue there to these people? Perhaps they might also read Fabricant's piece on his thinking....
1) May's deal
2) Remain
and I suspect Remain will squeak it...
If you have a referendum, it should simply be May's deal, Yes/No.
Parliament would then decide to Remain.0 -
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Alternatively 53 MPs that will never vote for any form of Brexit that doesn't crash the economy; otherwise known as 'remainers'.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:0 -
Yep it'll be Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn 24/7bigjohnowls said:Tory GE Manifesto
We dont have any actual policies and hey we may have fucked up Brexit but the alternative is Jezza.
I doubt it will wash though. It was barely enough in 2017 afterall...0 -
It was you, to be fair.SouthamObserver said:
That was me!!!Pulpstar said:Are big business and the CBI joining the ranks of traitors and saboteurs (Which now includes May herself) today ?
@AlastairMeeks Was not wrong when he said to buy shares in betrayal.0 -
If May tries to bring her doomed dodgy deal to a vote, Labour should move a VONC under the FTPA immediately before it. See what the DUP do. Dare them to save May,.0
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I think your comment is a red herring. It doesn’t alter the fact that many in business oppose May’s deal. The CBI members might be supportive but they are the multinationals.TheWhiteRabbit said:
The Alliance of British Entrepreneurs was set up to oppose Chequers, their opposition to the deal was almost definitional.AmpfieldAndy said:HYUFD said:Business backing for May's Deal
https://mobile.twitter.com/lionelbarber/status/1064503996252151808
200 business leaders signed a letter against May’s deal last week.0 -
Worringly I think we're almost alone here in engaging with the logical impossibility of his argument. Haven't seen it done so on twitter, except by myself.Richard_Nabavi said:
As a connoisseur of logical absurdities, I'm finding plenty to keep me going. In a strong field, DD's ConHome article today is surely the stand-out winner.grabcocque said:
I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:0 -
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I think everyone stopped listening to Davis a long while ago. It's not worth the lost brain cells to try to engage with his nonsense.Pulpstar said:
Worringly I think we're almost alone here in engaging with the logical impossibility of his argument. Haven't seen it done so on twitter, except by myself.Richard_Nabavi said:
As a connoisseur of logical absurdities, I'm finding plenty to keep me going. In a strong field, DD's ConHome article today is surely the stand-out winner.grabcocque said:
I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:0 -
Xenon said:
Yes big business always have the best interests of the population at heart. They'd never sell us out for a few more quid.AmpfieldAndy said:HYUFD said:Business backing for May's Deal
https://mobile.twitter.com/lionelbarber/status/1064503996252151808
200 business leaders signed a letter against May’s deal last week.
If you think business wants to cut itself off from access to the U.K. market, you are delusional.0 -
There may well be businesses that oppose Brexit. I don't know. The existence of the ABE is not great evidence of that fact.AmpfieldAndy said:
I think your comment is a red herring. It doesn’t alter the fact that many in business oppose May’s deal. The CBI members might be supportive but they are the multinationals.TheWhiteRabbit said:
The Alliance of British Entrepreneurs was set up to oppose Chequers, their opposition to the deal was almost definitional.AmpfieldAndy said:HYUFD said:Business backing for May's Deal
https://mobile.twitter.com/lionelbarber/status/1064503996252151808
200 business leaders signed a letter against May’s deal last week.0 -
The follow-up election: "who governs us, the voters or the MPs?" would be a bloodbath for those who voted to can Brexit....Casino_Royale said:
Mays deal would be resoundingly defeated.Sean_Fear said:
A two-option referendum would be a gerrymander.eek said:
The more I look at it the more I see a referendum coming with 2 options:-Scrapheap_as_was said:
So it might be december now....rottenborough said:It's getting utterly pathetic now:
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1064477588444327936
If it's such an almighty struggle to get to just 48 people out of 300+ MPs... is there not a clue there to these people? Perhaps they might also read Fabricant's piece on his thinking....
1) May's deal
2) Remain
and I suspect Remain will squeak it...
If you have a referendum, it should simply be May's deal, Yes/No.
Parliament would then decide to Remain.0 -
I don't know if this was discussed over the weekend, but to my mind this tweet by Alastair Burt is the most acute comment anyone has made on recent developments:
https://twitter.com/AlistairBurtUK/status/10637465854426234880 -
Once May either has this deal through or it is rejected then it is probably time for her to go. She's done more for this country than we deserve quite frankly, and deserves a good rest.GIN1138 said:
Yep it'll be Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn 24/7bigjohnowls said:Tory GE Manifesto
We dont have any actual policies and hey we may have fucked up Brexit but the alternative is Jezza.
I doubt it will wash though. It was barely enough in 2017 afterall...0 -
Spotted hours ago here.williamglenn said:0 -
The destruction of the Eurosceptics is something keeping me warm at night.grabcocque said:
I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:
The fact their behaviour could see the UK sign up to Schengen and the Euro is the cherry on the parfait.0 -
You do have to wonder how many of these MPs have properly read the proposed deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:0 -
UKIP would spike but both Labour and Tory MPs would be re-elected a plenty.MarqueeMark said:
The follow-up election: "who governs us, the voters or the MPs?" would be a bloodbath for those who voted to can Brexit....Casino_Royale said:
Mays deal would be resoundingly defeated.Sean_Fear said:
A two-option referendum would be a gerrymander.eek said:
The more I look at it the more I see a referendum coming with 2 options:-Scrapheap_as_was said:
So it might be december now....rottenborough said:It's getting utterly pathetic now:
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1064477588444327936
If it's such an almighty struggle to get to just 48 people out of 300+ MPs... is there not a clue there to these people? Perhaps they might also read Fabricant's piece on his thinking....
1) May's deal
2) Remain
and I suspect Remain will squeak it...
If you have a referendum, it should simply be May's deal, Yes/No.
Parliament would then decide to Remain.0 -
It'd be a bloodbath for the Tories, Labour's voters are generally remainers.MarqueeMark said:
The follow-up election: "who governs us, the voters or the MPs?" would be a bloodbath for those who voted to can Brexit....Casino_Royale said:
Mays deal would be resoundingly defeated.Sean_Fear said:
A two-option referendum would be a gerrymander.eek said:
The more I look at it the more I see a referendum coming with 2 options:-Scrapheap_as_was said:
So it might be december now....rottenborough said:It's getting utterly pathetic now:
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1064477588444327936
If it's such an almighty struggle to get to just 48 people out of 300+ MPs... is there not a clue there to these people? Perhaps they might also read Fabricant's piece on his thinking....
1) May's deal
2) Remain
and I suspect Remain will squeak it...
If you have a referendum, it should simply be May's deal, Yes/No.
Parliament would then decide to Remain.0 -
I can't see anyone recovering this for Con to be honest. They're done!Pulpstar said:
Once May either has this deal through or it is rejected then it is probably time for her to go. She's done more for this country than we deserve quite frankly, and deserves a good rest.GIN1138 said:
Yep it'll be Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn 24/7bigjohnowls said:Tory GE Manifesto
We dont have any actual policies and hey we may have fucked up Brexit but the alternative is Jezza.
I doubt it will wash though. It was barely enough in 2017 afterall...
The only question is how bad the next election will be for them...0 -
No but it sounds like you should be - tranquillisers. When you calm down, try looking at the lead in the polls May lost in the last election, and a look at the current polls wouldn’t hurt either. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of May’s ability to beat Corbynmatt said:
You're quite correct, a Mogg premiership, supported by Johnson and Davis, would have the Conservatives on 60%. Are you on drugs?AmpfieldAndy said:May and her supporters are so inept in office that they helping to keep Corbyn’s Labour within touching distance of power. When are people going to realise that ditching May and replacing her with someone who has relevant policies, political charisma and can properly articulate an argument without being restricted to a sounbite or a speech written by someone else is the only way to see off Corbyn.
All this negative politics about the alternative being Corbyn didn’t work in the last election and it won’t work in the next one.0 -
It's a 2nd vote folks.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't know if this was discussed over the weekend, but to my mind this tweet by Alastair Burt is the most acute comment anyone has made on recent developments:
https://twitter.com/AlistairBurtUK/status/10637465854426234880 -
TBF it probably means the destruction of the whole party, not just the septics.TheScreamingEagles said:
The destruction of the Eurosceptics is something keeping me warm at night.grabcocque said:
I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:
The fact their behaviour could see the UK sign up to Schengen and the Euro is the cherry on the parfait.0 -
Unfortunately that is so.grabcocque said:
TBF it probably means the destruction of the whole party, not just the septics.TheScreamingEagles said:
The destruction of the Eurosceptics is something keeping me warm at night.grabcocque said:
I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:
The fact their behaviour could see the UK sign up to Schengen and the Euro is the cherry on the parfait.0 -
Yes, the voters won't make a distinction between Rees Mogg (Who probably still gets in) and Amber Rudd who will have no chance down in Hastings.grabcocque said:
TBF it probably means the destruction of the whole party, not just the septics.TheScreamingEagles said:
The destruction of the Eurosceptics is something keeping me warm at night.grabcocque said:
I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:
The fact their behaviour could see the UK sign up to Schengen and the Euro is the cherry on the parfait.0 -
Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't know if this was discussed over the weekend, but to my mind this tweet by Alastair Burt is the most acute comment anyone has made on recent developments:
https://twitter.com/AlistairBurtUK/status/1063746585442623488
It’s going to happen anyway. The Leave camp have split and the Remain camp are approaching full square behind stopping Brexit, if at all politically possible.
There’s just not enough people willing to accept this compromise. It’s very depressing for Leavers like me.0 -
The socially liberal, fiscally dry not obsessed by Europe and gays wing will be fine.grabcocque said:
TBF it probably means the destruction of the whole party, not just the septics.TheScreamingEagles said:
The destruction of the Eurosceptics is something keeping me warm at night.grabcocque said:
I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:
The fact their behaviour could see the UK sign up to Schengen and the Euro is the cherry on the parfait.
It’ll be like The Beatles losing Pete Best.0 -
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-urged-to-meet-nicola-sturgeon-and-form-united-front-for-new-brexit-vote-1-4831676
As time goes on, the pressure on Corbyn to agree to a People's Vote is going to become very intense, especially as we get close to M-day.0 -
Given recent events that may not be a bad thing.grabcocque said:
TBF it probably means the destruction of the whole party, not just the septics.TheScreamingEagles said:
The destruction of the Eurosceptics is something keeping me warm at night.grabcocque said:
I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:
The fact their behaviour could see the UK sign up to Schengen and the Euro is the cherry on the parfait.
0 -
You had me at gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
The socially liberal, fiscally dry not obsessed by Europe and gays will be fine.grabcocque said:
TBF it probably means the destruction of the whole party, not just the septics.TheScreamingEagles said:
The destruction of the Eurosceptics is something keeping me warm at night.grabcocque said:
I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:
The fact their behaviour could see the UK sign up to Schengen and the Euro is the cherry on the parfait.
It’ll be like The Beatles losing Pete Best.0 -
If only Tories had rowed in behind May, at least it would be Labour being asked the hard questions. There's plenty in the deal to laud it on the airwaves should they have wished to pursue this path.Casino_Royale said:Richard_Nabavi said:I don't know if this was discussed over the weekend, but to my mind this tweet by Alastair Burt is the most acute comment anyone has made on recent developments:
https://twitter.com/AlistairBurtUK/status/1063746585442623488
It’s going to happen anyway. The Leave camp have split and the Remain camp are approaching full square behind stopping Brexit, if at all politically possible.
There’s just not enough people willing to accept this compromise. It’s very depressing for Leavers like me.0 -
SHUT UP YOU FEARMONGERING TRAITOR!!rottenborough said:
Plus there is an issue with licences for truck drivers to operate in EU in a No Deal situation iirc.Anorak said:
Most trucks carry goods both ways (i.e. the mode of transport itself is bidirectional). After the first load arrives, those trucks will not be able to return without negotiating the 40-mile car park approaching Dover. This could be solved, of course, by making the trucks return empty, which would given inflation a mighty boost as prices rose.OblitusSumMe said:The denizens of Mumsnet have themselves worked up about food shortages following a no-deal Brexit, but surely all the problems at the border will be for UK exports, not imports?
I can't imagine any UK government causing food shortages by imposing border checks on food imports.
Am I missing anything? (I'm assuming that only a very small proportion of food imports travel by air)
And this presumes that the govt is totally happy to believe that food trucks are not carrying anything else, and that the EU is totally happy to believe that all returning trucks are actually empty.0 -
Hoorar for us! We'll need to coach Ken C in to staying on a bit longer as our caretaker until we've drawn lots on who the leader should be.TheScreamingEagles said:
The socially liberal, fiscally dry not obsessed by Europe and gays wing will be fine.grabcocque said:
TBF it probably means the destruction of the whole party, not just the septics.TheScreamingEagles said:
The destruction of the Eurosceptics is something keeping me warm at night.grabcocque said:
I also find that humour keeps me going through these dark and ridiculous times.Richard_Nabavi said:
53 Tory MPs who won't vote "for a deal that keeps us in the CU, SM or ECJ," Oh good, so they'll vote for Theresa May's deal. This is very encouraging.grabcocque said:
The fact their behaviour could see the UK sign up to Schengen and the Euro is the cherry on the parfait.
It’ll be like The Beatles losing Pete Best.0 -
Depends if there is time to form an anti-Establishment "Voters" Party before that election. I could see that getting a good hearing in Leave-voting Labour seats.Pulpstar said:
It'd be a bloodbath for the Tories, Labour's voters are generally remainers.MarqueeMark said:
The follow-up election: "who governs us, the voters or the MPs?" would be a bloodbath for those who voted to can Brexit....Casino_Royale said:
Mays deal would be resoundingly defeated.Sean_Fear said:
A two-option referendum would be a gerrymander.eek said:
The more I look at it the more I see a referendum coming with 2 options:-Scrapheap_as_was said:
So it might be december now....rottenborough said:It's getting utterly pathetic now:
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1064477588444327936
If it's such an almighty struggle to get to just 48 people out of 300+ MPs... is there not a clue there to these people? Perhaps they might also read Fabricant's piece on his thinking....
1) May's deal
2) Remain
and I suspect Remain will squeak it...
If you have a referendum, it should simply be May's deal, Yes/No.
Parliament would then decide to Remain.0 -
I’d sell the deal to the ERG by getting her to go in 2019 and getting a proper Leaver, like Gove, to lead the full FTA negotiations.Pulpstar said:
Once May either has this deal through or it is rejected then it is probably time for her to go. She's done more for this country than we deserve quite frankly, and deserves a good rest.GIN1138 said:
Yep it'll be Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn 24/7bigjohnowls said:Tory GE Manifesto
We dont have any actual policies and hey we may have fucked up Brexit but the alternative is Jezza.
I doubt it will wash though. It was barely enough in 2017 afterall...0 -
200 signatures against the dealis pretty convincing evidence that business is as divided as every other part of the electorate. There is no case for saying business supports the deal.TheWhiteRabbit said:
There may well be businesses that oppose Brexit. I don't know. The existence of the ABE is not great evidence of that fact.AmpfieldAndy said:
I think your comment is a red herring. It doesn’t alter the fact that many in business oppose May’s deal. The CBI members might be supportive but they are the multinationals.TheWhiteRabbit said:
The Alliance of British Entrepreneurs was set up to oppose Chequers, their opposition to the deal was almost definitional.AmpfieldAndy said:HYUFD said:Business backing for May's Deal
https://mobile.twitter.com/lionelbarber/status/1064503996252151808
200 business leaders signed a letter against May’s deal last week.0 -
-
Cancelling a democratic decision before it has even been enacted on the basis of an incompetent negotiation run by those who didn't even support the decision is not democracy.JosiasJessop said:
They'll only believe that 'democracy doesn't work' if enough idiots tell them that.Richard_Tyndall said:
And the real chaos ensues. There is no way that the win for Remain would be anything more than marginal - 52/48 the other way at best. So you then have something in the order of 16 million people who have been told that democracy no longer works and there is no point using the normal democratic process to get what you want. How many of those do you think it takes before people start dying?eek said:
The more I look at it the more I see a referendum coming with 2 options:-Scrapheap_as_was said:
So it might be december now....rottenborough said:It's getting utterly pathetic now:
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1064477588444327936
If it's such an almighty struggle to get to just 48 people out of 300+ MPs... is there not a clue there to these people? Perhaps they might also read Fabricant's piece on his thinking....
1) May's deal
2) Remain
and I suspect Remain will squeak it...
In reality. it would be democratic.
1) We had a vote.
2) The result was close.
3) A lot of time and effort has been spent getting a deal.
4) The deal has been rejected by the elected parliament.
In that scenario, it would be democratic to throw it back to the people in another referendum (though much would depend on the options given).
"How many of those do you think it takes before people start dying? "
Project Fear.
That is the accurate narrative that will be pushed by many including myself.0 -
If ERG cannot muster 48 MPs to sign no confidence letters, looks as if number actually voting against the deal and their leader will be into single figures -say 10 (or perhaps more likely 20 abstentions). Add four or five abstentions from the remainers -Grieve, Greening, etc. then support for the deal will be at about 304 including perhaps 4 of the various Independents.
SNP, Lib Dems Plaid and Greens number 52 so will need 243 out of current 257 Labour MPs to vote against for the deal to fail. Given the hostility of some to whatever Corbyn wants then to only lose 14 to abstentions (or 7 to voting for the deal) will be some ask.
I have ignored the DUP as their hostility to the deal should just about balance their hatred of Labour, leading them to abstain.0 -
You mean UKIP ? They have, and will take plenty of net Tory votes.MarqueeMark said:
Depends if there is time to form an anti-Establishment "Voters" Party before that election. I could see that getting a good hearing in Leave-voting Labour seats.Pulpstar said:
It'd be a bloodbath for the Tories, Labour's voters are generally remainers.MarqueeMark said:
The follow-up election: "who governs us, the voters or the MPs?" would be a bloodbath for those who voted to can Brexit....Casino_Royale said:
Mays deal would be resoundingly defeated.Sean_Fear said:
A two-option referendum would be a gerrymander.eek said:
The more I look at it the more I see a referendum coming with 2 options:-Scrapheap_as_was said:
So it might be december now....rottenborough said:It's getting utterly pathetic now:
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1064477588444327936
If it's such an almighty struggle to get to just 48 people out of 300+ MPs... is there not a clue there to these people? Perhaps they might also read Fabricant's piece on his thinking....
1) May's deal
2) Remain
and I suspect Remain will squeak it...
If you have a referendum, it should simply be May's deal, Yes/No.
Parliament would then decide to Remain.0 -
I doubt it. More likely to be a big push towards EEA / EFTA membershiprottenborough said:
It's a 2nd vote folks.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't know if this was discussed over the weekend, but to my mind this tweet by Alastair Burt is the most acute comment anyone has made on recent developments:
https://twitter.com/AlistairBurtUK/status/10637465854426234880 -
Nobody in particular.Anazina said:
The important point is that he's the 53rd declared Tory against the deal, excluding all those who resigned last week. Suggests that May's initial deficit in her party for the deal is a bad as -70.
There's no way in god's clean earth she seriously believes she can flip 70 Tories just using the dark arts of the whip's office, so I can see two possibilities
1) The meaningful vote won't happen
2) May has something up her sleeve0 -
Postman late at the HoC today?0
-
UKIP is tainted with being bat-shit crazy though.... Needs a new party.Pulpstar said:
You mean UKIP ? They have, and will take plenty of net Tory votes.MarqueeMark said:
Depends if there is time to form an anti-Establishment "Voters" Party before that election. I could see that getting a good hearing in Leave-voting Labour seats.Pulpstar said:
It'd be a bloodbath for the Tories, Labour's voters are generally remainers.MarqueeMark said:
The follow-up election: "who governs us, the voters or the MPs?" would be a bloodbath for those who voted to can Brexit....Casino_Royale said:
Mays deal would be resoundingly defeated.Sean_Fear said:
A two-option referendum would be a gerrymander.eek said:
The more I look at it the more I see a referendum coming with 2 options:-Scrapheap_as_was said:
So it might be december now....rottenborough said:It's getting utterly pathetic now:
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1064477588444327936
If it's such an almighty struggle to get to just 48 people out of 300+ MPs... is there not a clue there to these people? Perhaps they might also read Fabricant's piece on his thinking....
1) May's deal
2) Remain
and I suspect Remain will squeak it...
If you have a referendum, it should simply be May's deal, Yes/No.
Parliament would then decide to Remain.0 -
That's in line with the article on Conhome (so I won't link to it for long-established PB etiquette) by Nicky Morgan early this morning.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't know if this was discussed over the weekend, but to my mind this tweet by Alastair Burt is the most acute comment anyone has made on recent developments:
https://twitter.com/AlistairBurtUK/status/10637465854426234880 -
0
-
No, recent events have shown beyond any doubt at all (even if there was any doubt before) that the ERGers will simply never under any circumstances do anything other than trash any possibility of a reasonable implementation of Brexit. It doesn't matter what is in any deal or who fronts it, it will always be a betrayal in their eyes.Casino_Royale said:
I’d sell the deal to the ERG by getting her to go in 2019 and getting a proper Leaver, like Gove, to lead the full FTA negotiations.Pulpstar said:
Once May either has this deal through or it is rejected then it is probably time for her to go. She's done more for this country than we deserve quite frankly, and deserves a good rest.GIN1138 said:
Yep it'll be Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn 24/7bigjohnowls said:Tory GE Manifesto
We dont have any actual policies and hey we may have fucked up Brexit but the alternative is Jezza.
I doubt it will wash though. It was barely enough in 2017 afterall...0 -
I don't understand this opposition to the deal being brought to a vote that some seem to have. A majority of MPs oppose it from different sides of the Chamber for a variety of reasons, some of them even being decent reasons. Why should any MP who believes this deal to be worthy of rejection have a problem with, you know, rejecting it?grabcocque said:If May tries to bring her doomed dodgy deal to a vote, Labour should move a VONC under the FTPA immediately before it. See what the DUP do. Dare them to save May,.
We'll never know how many would truly have voted for or against this particular deal if they don't consider it. Isn't it good for all the parties to know how many might rebel on both sides?
That's true, although Labour voting against should not be ignored (nor would they want it ignored, since they believe it to be for the best of reasons. And coincidentally assists them in replacing the government, but that's hardly a Labour only thing when it comes to considering the best course of action).Pulpstar said:
Labour is the opposition. There is ALWAYS more focus on rebels, and rightly so.TGOHF said:So 40 odd ERG types will vote against the bill
And also 250 Labour MPs will vote against the bill
yet all the media focus is on the ERG.
Seems er - well..
No one, of any party, should vote for a deal they think is terrible, if the truly believe they can get a better alternative and are prepared for the risks of attempting that. No one, of any party, should vote against the deal if they think it good, or they do not think a better alternative is possible.0 -
I agree with this actually. I think a Norway for Now plus CU is now the most likely outcome on a plurality basis. I don't think any one outcome has a 50% chance as yet.AmpfieldAndy said:
I doubt it. More likely to be a big push towards EEA / EFTA membershiprottenborough said:
It's a 2nd vote folks.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't know if this was discussed over the weekend, but to my mind this tweet by Alastair Burt is the most acute comment anyone has made on recent developments:
https://twitter.com/AlistairBurtUK/status/1063746585442623488
I think the chances of No Deal are very low as parliament won't vote to visit utter chaos on the UK economy and make us an international laughing stock.0 -
The following sequence of events I would put at >60%:
1) deal voted down
2) vonc intra Tory
3) Lab decides to offer 2nd referendum in GE manifesto
4) pressure for GE overwhelming
5) GE, Lab victory0 -
Right now they don't have to vote though - art 50 expires on March 29th !Anazina said:
I agree with this actually. I think a Norway for Now plus CU is now the most likely outcome on a plurality basis. I don't think any one outcome has a 50% chance as yet.AmpfieldAndy said:
I doubt it. More likely to be a big push towards EEA / EFTA membershiprottenborough said:
It's a 2nd vote folks.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't know if this was discussed over the weekend, but to my mind this tweet by Alastair Burt is the most acute comment anyone has made on recent developments:
https://twitter.com/AlistairBurtUK/status/1063746585442623488
I think the chances of No Deal are very low as parliament won't vote to visit utter chaos on the UK economy and make us an international laughing stock.0 -
The DUP have threatened May with "consequences" if she brings it to a vote. I'm merely thinking Labour need to hold the DUP to their word by moving a VONC under the FTPA as soon as May announces the time and date of the vote.kle4 said:
I don't understand this opposition to the deal being brought to a vote. A majority of MPs oppose it from different sides of the Chamber for a variety of reasons, some of them even being decent reasons. Why should any MP who believes this deal to be worthy of rejection have a problem with, you know, rejecting it?grabcocque said:If May tries to bring her doomed dodgy deal to a vote, Labour should move a VONC under the FTPA immediately before it. See what the DUP do. Dare them to save May,.
That's true, although Labour voting against should not be ignored (nor would they want it ignored, since they believe it to be for the best of reasons. And coincidentally assists them in replacing the government, but that's hardly a Labour only thing when it comes to considering the best course of action).Pulpstar said:
Labour is the opposition. There is ALWAYS more focus on rebels, and rightly so.TGOHF said:So 40 odd ERG types will vote against the bill
And also 250 Labour MPs will vote against the bill
yet all the media focus is on the ERG.
Seems er - well..
No one, of any party, should vote for a deal they think is terrible, if the truly believe they can get a better alternative and are prepared for the risks of attempting that. No one, of any party, should vote against the deal if they think it good, or they do not think a better alternative is possible.0 -
Biggest beneficiary of this May deal will be the stay at home party.MarqueeMark said:
UKIP is tainted with being bat-shit crazy though.... Needs a new party.Pulpstar said:
You mean UKIP ? They have, and will take plenty of net Tory votes.MarqueeMark said:
Depends if there is time to form an anti-Establishment "Voters" Party before that election. I could see that getting a good hearing in Leave-voting Labour seats.Pulpstar said:
It'd be a bloodbath for the Tories, Labour's voters are generally remainers.MarqueeMark said:
The follow-up election: "who governs us, the voters or the MPs?" would be a bloodbath for those who voted to can Brexit....Casino_Royale said:
Mays deal would be resoundingly defeated.Sean_Fear said:
A two-option referendum would be a gerrymander.eek said:
The more I look at it the more I see a referendum coming with 2 options:-Scrapheap_as_was said:
So it might be december now....rottenborough said:It's getting utterly pathetic now:
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1064477588444327936
If it's such an almighty struggle to get to just 48 people out of 300+ MPs... is there not a clue there to these people? Perhaps they might also read Fabricant's piece on his thinking....
1) May's deal
2) Remain
and I suspect Remain will squeak it...
If you have a referendum, it should simply be May's deal, Yes/No.
Parliament would then decide to Remain.
0 -
Parliament does not support the will of the people - just what Corbyn and McDonnell want to hear.Scrapheap_as_was said:
That's in line with the article on Conhome (so I won't link to it for long-established PB etiquette) by Nicky Morgan early this morning.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't know if this was discussed over the weekend, but to my mind this tweet by Alastair Burt is the most acute comment anyone has made on recent developments:
https://twitter.com/AlistairBurtUK/status/10637465854426234880 -
I'm sure some MPs do think that, it wouldn't make the agitators for a vote now look any sillier. Another reason, frankly, why May should want a vote now, as some MPs also probably noted.Scrapheap_as_was said:stop laughing at the back...
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/10645200926864015370 -
There is much to be said for ERG holding back and following the Fabricant line - wait until her deal has been voted down in Westminster. Then put the letters in, when she is self-evidently a failed PM.Casino_Royale said:
I’d sell the deal to the ERG by getting her to go in 2019 and getting a proper Leaver, like Gove, to lead the full FTA negotiations.Pulpstar said:
Once May either has this deal through or it is rejected then it is probably time for her to go. She's done more for this country than we deserve quite frankly, and deserves a good rest.GIN1138 said:
Yep it'll be Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn 24/7bigjohnowls said:Tory GE Manifesto
We dont have any actual policies and hey we may have fucked up Brexit but the alternative is Jezza.
I doubt it will wash though. It was barely enough in 2017 afterall...
The replacement-PM candidates can put in their pitch to MPs what they would do next.0 -
I accept that the existence of the ABE is good evidence that at least 200 businesses exist who oppose the deal.AmpfieldAndy said:
200 signatures against the dealis pretty convincing evidence that business is as divided as every other part of the electorate. There is no case for saying business supports the deal.TheWhiteRabbit said:
There may well be businesses that oppose Brexit. I don't know. The existence of the ABE is not great evidence of that fact.AmpfieldAndy said:
I think your comment is a red herring. It doesn’t alter the fact that many in business oppose May’s deal. The CBI members might be supportive but they are the multinationals.TheWhiteRabbit said:
The Alliance of British Entrepreneurs was set up to oppose Chequers, their opposition to the deal was almost definitional.AmpfieldAndy said:HYUFD said:Business backing for May's Deal
https://mobile.twitter.com/lionelbarber/status/1064503996252151808
200 business leaders signed a letter against May’s deal last week.
The CBI claims 190,000 businesses, the BCC (no comment yet), 75,000 and the FSB (seemingly in support of the deal but not 100% clear) 160,000. None of those organisations are great evidence either, but at least they exist independently of the Brexit issue.
I expect on a no-deal/deal basis deal would win 90/10; but quite a lot of businesses would like may to pull "Remain" out the hat somehow.0 -
Why would the Tories not preempt 4 and offer the referendum immediately?TOPPING said:The following sequence of events I would put at >60%:
1) deal voted down
2) vonc intra Tory
3) Lab decides to offer 2nd referendum in GE manifesto
4) pressure for GE overwhelming
5) GE, Lab victory0 -
A formal split in Con would be interesting... And I'd think is very likely?MarqueeMark said:
UKIP is tainted with being bat-shit crazy though.... Needs a new party.Pulpstar said:
You mean UKIP ? They have, and will take plenty of net Tory votes.MarqueeMark said:
Depends if there is time to form an anti-Establishment "Voters" Party before that election. I could see that getting a good hearing in Leave-voting Labour seats.Pulpstar said:
It'd be a bloodbath for the Tories, Labour's voters are generally remainers.MarqueeMark said:
The follow-up election: "who governs us, the voters or the MPs?" would be a bloodbath for those who voted to can Brexit....Casino_Royale said:
Mays deal would be resoundingly defeated.Sean_Fear said:
A two-option referendum would be a gerrymander.eek said:
The more I look at it the more I see a referendum coming with 2 options:-Scrapheap_as_was said:
So it might be december now....rottenborough said:It's getting utterly pathetic now:
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1064477588444327936
If it's such an almighty struggle to get to just 48 people out of 300+ MPs... is there not a clue there to these people? Perhaps they might also read Fabricant's piece on his thinking....
1) May's deal
2) Remain
and I suspect Remain will squeak it...
If you have a referendum, it should simply be May's deal, Yes/No.
Parliament would then decide to Remain.0 -
No, the biggest beneficiary will be Corbyn....TGOHF said:
Biggest beneficiary of this May deal will be the stay at home party.MarqueeMark said:
UKIP is tainted with being bat-shit crazy though.... Needs a new party.Pulpstar said:
You mean UKIP ? They have, and will take plenty of net Tory votes.MarqueeMark said:
Depends if there is time to form an anti-Establishment "Voters" Party before that election. I could see that getting a good hearing in Leave-voting Labour seats.Pulpstar said:
It'd be a bloodbath for the Tories, Labour's voters are generally remainers.MarqueeMark said:
The follow-up election: "who governs us, the voters or the MPs?" would be a bloodbath for those who voted to can Brexit....Casino_Royale said:
Mays deal would be resoundingly defeated.Sean_Fear said:
A two-option referendum would be a gerrymander.eek said:
The more I look at it the more I see a referendum coming with 2 options:-Scrapheap_as_was said:
So it might be december now....rottenborough said:It's getting utterly pathetic now:
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1064477588444327936
If it's such an almighty struggle to get to just 48 people out of 300+ MPs... is there not a clue there to these people? Perhaps they might also read Fabricant's piece on his thinking....
1) May's deal
2) Remain
and I suspect Remain will squeak it...
If you have a referendum, it should simply be May's deal, Yes/No.
Parliament would then decide to Remain.0 -
If the ERG resort to allowing May to stay - or even supporting the WA if she agrees to go - then what a success for her.0
-
If this deal doesn’t pass we won’t be Leaving, mate.MarqueeMark said:
There is much to be said for ERG holding back and following the Fabricant line - wait until her deal has been voted down in Westminster. Then put the letters in, when she is self-evidently a failed PM.Casino_Royale said:
I’d sell the deal to the ERG by getting her to go in 2019 and getting a proper Leaver, like Gove, to lead the full FTA negotiations.Pulpstar said:
Once May either has this deal through or it is rejected then it is probably time for her to go. She's done more for this country than we deserve quite frankly, and deserves a good rest.GIN1138 said:
Yep it'll be Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn 24/7bigjohnowls said:Tory GE Manifesto
We dont have any actual policies and hey we may have fucked up Brexit but the alternative is Jezza.
I doubt it will wash though. It was barely enough in 2017 afterall...
The replacement-PM candidates can put in their pitch to MPs what they would do next.
It’s sub-par and May’s cocked up, but we’ve got no choice. Eyes on the prize.0 -
Because they are not that politically astute.williamglenn said:
Why would the Tories not preempt 4 and offer the referendum immediately?TOPPING said:The following sequence of events I would put at >60%:
1) deal voted down
2) vonc intra Tory
3) Lab decides to offer 2nd referendum in GE manifesto
4) pressure for GE overwhelming
5) GE, Lab victory0 -
EFTA/EEA fails the Dorries test for any deal - does it give us MEPs and a commissioner?AmpfieldAndy said:
I doubt it. More likely to be a big push towards EEA / EFTA membershiprottenborough said:
It's a 2nd vote folks.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't know if this was discussed over the weekend, but to my mind this tweet by Alastair Burt is the most acute comment anyone has made on recent developments:
https://twitter.com/AlistairBurtUK/status/10637465854426234880
This discussion has been closed.