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No he is not - he is marking his own card for all to seeHYUFD said:
Raab is apparently backing Davis not Boris in the Express report. He also made clear he will vote against the DealBig_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
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Me too...Cyclefree said:
I could not care less if the Tories destroy themselves. Just so long as they don’t destroy the country with them.Nigelb said:
More like fission in the Tory party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Are they bent on self-destruction ?
But the prospect of PM Corbyn navigating the aftermath of Brexit leaves the second bit in doubt.
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I have some sympathy for it although it was never my preferred option because of the freedom of movement issue (I am a big fan). But it seems to me that we are past the point where we can currently prepare for that and avoid disruption on March 29th. This deal is terrible. And if it were a choice between this and No Deal I would probably prefer no deal in spite of the disruption. But the risk of Remain is too high and the consequences of that would be real disaster not just some short term discomfort.alex. said:
Do you personally claim much if any alignment with where the ERG want to apparently go on Brexit?Richard_Tyndall said:
The rules have changed and the risks involved are now far higher than they were in the past. A failure leaves May untouchable and able to do what she wants policy wise for the next year. Given that the ERG aim is to get rid of the policy not the person, they have to be a lot more cautious about strengthening May's hand.swing_voter said:
is this the best they can doHYUFD said:As mentioned on Marr too the Sunday Express this morning is reporting Boris and Davis are in talks to see who should run if May goes.
Mogg is apparently ready to back Boris in return for being made Chancellor, while Steve Baker another ERG big beast will also get a Cabinet job. Davis is though also intending to run with the likely support of Raab.
Gove is being lined up as a compromise in favour of 'the Norway EEA option' and staying in the single market and the customs union as well. Rudd, Morgan and Boles may back Gove but Philip Lee and Justine Greening could also run on a pro Remain and 'reverse Brexit' ticket.
Allies of May suggest if her Deal is rejected she may propose permanent Customs Union membership to get Labour support.
The 48 letters figure is expected to be reached tomorrow now with a no confidence vote potentially as early as next week
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1046795/brexit-news-theresa-may-confidence-vote-boris-johnson-jacob-rees-mogg-david-davis
to think that the Conservative party used to have a reputation for ruthlessness with its leaders when the time has come............
Hence my very reluctant support for the deal. And yes, for my sins, I did force myself to sit and read through the whole thing as I have done with every other EU treaty down the years.0 -
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/10633966314486005770 -
I reckon Raab and Davis will cook up a deal where Davis is caretaker PM for a year or so and then hands over to Raab to take the Tories into 2022...HYUFD said:
Raab is apparently backing Davis not Boris in the Express report. He also made clear he will vote against the DealBig_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Whether Davis would actually stick to that after enjoying the trappings of being PM is interesting to ponder...
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Let's not say they don't have a plan, Oklahoma has the largest pair of praying hands in the worldSouthamObserver said:
* David Davis and Owen Paterson have tried to negotiate a trade deal with Oklahoma.0 -
"I was hoodwinked," says Buccaneering Dominic Raab. "What's more, I only recently realised that Britain is an island off the coast of France. So believe me when I say I have the skill, the determination and the sheer brain power to force the EU to give the UK a brilliant Brexit deal."0
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You have to start to wonder if perhaps even some of the old "declared letters" are sitting in the writer's top drawer.Morris_Dancer said:0 -
I come from the other side. I don't believe the EU is reformable in any way that would be acceptable to us and that the direction of travel is in the complete opposite direction. Even those opt outs we had would eventually become untenable so if we didn't leave now we would be forced to either give them up or leave later.Jonathan said:
Not quite. I voted remain on the basis that the EU was more reformable than Westminster/Whitehall. I stand by that.Richard_Tyndall said:
Sorry Jonathan but you have been a Remainer from the very start. To try and claim you have 'lost faith' now is more than a mite disingenuous.Jonathan said:
I have lost faith in any of this. There is no good Brexit,Brexiteers are incompetent bufffoons pissing about in Oklahoma. The deal is an over complex technocratic fudge with a massive democratic deficit.Casino_Royale said:
Brexiteers should read and note this.Jonathan said:There is nothing in this deal for me. Nothing.
Remain offers more democratic control and a stronger economy. I want a second vote. Remain is possible. No deal is not inevitable.
Those rejecting the deal are the ultra-Remainers useful idiots.
I am not an ultra remainer. I am someone in despair. There is no good here. None at all.
Having lost, as a democrat I was fully prepared to accept a new direction. Weirdly for democratic reasons I am more attracted to the more independent version of Brexit if that could be made to work economically.
What I cannot accept is the current utter chaos and incompetence. I also cannot accept a situation where the EU gets to vote on our laws and we don’t and a deal tha potentially we cannot escape. One day in an extreme unlikely scenario , God forbid, AFD and FN could run Europe and under some scenarios talked about today we could do nothing. At least in the EU we can leave unilaterally.
In the light of all this. We are better off back in. We need a vote to do it and should make arrangements now.0 -
The way some Tories are behaving is to make the prospect of Corbyn in power more likely. That fills me with horror. I do not think his instincts are fundamentally liberal or democratic or in favour of freedom. But those Tories behaving like extremist self-indulgent ninnies are behaving like his useful idiots and will bring about what they claim to abhor. They are a disgrace to their party. They are not patriots and they are taking the voters for fools.Nigelb said:
Me too...Cyclefree said:
I could not care less if the Tories destroy themselves. Just so long as they don’t destroy the country with them.Nigelb said:
More like fission in the Tory party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Are they bent on self-destruction ?
But the prospect of PM Corbyn navigating the aftermath of Brexit leaves the second bit in doubt.
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Raab will be Home Secretary... and will announce an extension of detention without charge to 42 days... thus ensuring a resignation and by-election in Haltemprice (or whatever it is called now).GIN1138 said:
I reckon Raab and Davis will cook up a deal where Davis is caretaker PM for a year or so and then hands over to Raab to take the Tories into 2022...HYUFD said:
Raab is apparently backing Davis not Boris in the Express report. He also made clear he will vote against the DealBig_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Whether Davis would actually stick to that after enjoying the trappings of being PM is interesting to ponder...
P.s. my Mum lives in his constituency and says he is an arrogant s**t0 -
It is breathtaking how fucked we are. Morons to the right of us, incompetents in charge and Marxists to the left.SouthamObserver said:"I was hoodwinked," says Buccaneering Dominic Raab. "What's more, I only recently realised that Britain is an island off the coast of France. So believe me when I say I have the skill, the determination and the sheer brain power to force the EU to give the UK a brilliant Brexit deal."
Annoyingly there is no comfort in voting against all of it.0 -
The Tories are still polling this morning at 36% ie the same share Cameron got in 2010 and 2015, hardly plummeting to 1997 levels and Labour is not up on the last general election itTGOHF said:
Depends - if the Cons continue to plummet in the polls then wavering MPs may tip the scales.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Opinion by paper reviewers on Marr is they haven't even though two more names have been added this week making it 25. Tom Newton Dunn doubts it is 40 yet, 8 shortwilliamglenn said:Based on May's answer about Graham Brady I'd say the letters are in.
It was agreed that if the ERG do not achieve the vnoc they will be marginalised
is UKIP getting most of the swing but even UKIP are still below 2015 levels0 -
He certainly likes the sound of his own voice..I went to a local association dinner and we couldn't shut him up.Rexel56 said:
Raab will be Home Secretary... and will announce an extension of detention without charge to 42 days... thus ensuring a resignation and by-election in Haltemprice (or whatever it is called now).GIN1138 said:
I reckon Raab and Davis will cook up a deal where Davis is caretaker PM for a year or so and then hands over to Raab to take the Tories into 2022...HYUFD said:
Raab is apparently backing Davis not Boris in the Express report. He also made clear he will vote against the DealBig_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Whether Davis would actually stick to that after enjoying the trappings of being PM is interesting to ponder...
P.s. my Mum lives in his constituency and says he is an arrogant s**t0 -
Well, what do you expect? Raab is the spitting image of Alan Bastard MP.....Rexel56 said:
P.s. my Mum lives in his constituency and says he is an arrogant s**t0 -
You do not have a clue. The next leader of the party will be elected from a process of 6 - 8 candidates reduced to 2 and put to us, the members over 2 - 3 monthsGIN1138 said:
I reckon Raab and Davis will cook up a deal where Davis is caretaker PM for a year or so and then hands over to Raab to take the Tories into 2022...HYUFD said:
Raab is apparently backing Davis not Boris in the Express report. He also made clear he will vote against the DealBig_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Whether Davis would actually stick to that after enjoying the trappings of being PM is interesting to ponder...
Much like most ERG you seem to think my party is a closed cult of ERG members who can decide amongst themselves who I have imposed on me0 -
But he only needs 47....Pulpstar said:
You have to start to wonder if perhaps even some of the old "declared letters" are sitting in the writer's top drawer.Morris_Dancer said:0 -
I thought Raab was impressive on Marr though I fundamentally disagree with his vision of the UK's future.
I note that he is now favourite on Betfair to be next Tory leader.0 -
Sky - Brady confirms letters are not at 480
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Agreed and no doubt you can feel my painCyclefree said:
The way some Tories are behaving is to make the prospect of Corbyn in power more likely. That fills me with horror. I do not think his instincts are fundamentally liberal or democratic or in favour of freedom. But those Tories behaving like extremist self-indulgent ninnies are behaving like his useful idiots and will bring about what they claim to abhor. They are a disgrace to their party. They are not patriots and they are taking the voters for fools.Nigelb said:
Me too...Cyclefree said:
I could not care less if the Tories destroy themselves. Just so long as they don’t destroy the country with them.Nigelb said:
More like fission in the Tory party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Are they bent on self-destruction ?
But the prospect of PM Corbyn navigating the aftermath of Brexit leaves the second bit in doubt.0 -
Sorry, it’s DD about whom my Mum has an opinion, she lives in Haltemprice. But, wasn’t that also the constituency of Alan B’stard? I think it was 😀MarqueeMark said:
Well, what do you expect? Raab is the spitting image of Alan Bastard MP.....Rexel56 said:
P.s. my Mum lives in his constituency and says he is an arrogant s**t0 -
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Raab saying that May is giving in to blackmail but also that he supports her is like Ludendorff making sure his name wasn't on the armistice.Barnesian said:I thought Raab was impressive on Marr though I fundamentally disagree with his vision of the UK's future.
I note that he is now favourite on Betfair to be next Tory leader.0 -
MarqueeMark said:
But he only needs 47....Pulpstar said:
You have to start to wonder if perhaps even some of the old "declared letters" are sitting in the writer's top drawer.Morris_Dancer said:
Pathetic. ERG wingnuts haven't got the numbers. Their delusions extend to the number of letter writers they think they have.0 -
Cyclefree said:
The way some Tories are behaving is to make the prospect of Corbyn in power more likely. That fills me with horror. I do not think his instincts are fundamentally liberal or democratic or in favour of freedom. But those Tories behaving like extremist self-indulgent ninnies are behaving like his useful idiots and will bring about what they claim to abhor. They are a disgrace to their party. They are not patriots and they are taking the voters for fools.Nigelb said:
Me too...Cyclefree said:
I could not care less if the Tories destroy themselves. Just so long as they don’t destroy the country with them.Nigelb said:
More like fission in the Tory party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Are they bent on self-destruction ?
But the prospect of PM Corbyn navigating the aftermath of Brexit leaves the second bit in doubt.
Based on both polls last night Corbyn will only be in power having his policies dictated by Sturgeon and Blackford as he will need the SNP for confidence and supply.
Based on Sturgeon's comments on Marr she will demand the UK stays in the single market and the customs union as the price of her support.
So we will move from having a PM being dictated to by Arlene Foster to a PM being dictated to by Nicola Sturgeon
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You need to realise the Express is the ERG mouthpiece and needs to be treated with caution.HYUFD said:
Raab will endorse Davis according to the Express, young Crdinals like old PopesBarnesian said:I thought Raab was impressive on Marr though I fundamentally disagree with his vision of the UK's future.
I note that he is now favourite on Betfair to be next Tory leader.
Raab declaring war on Boris and loyalty to TM shows a determination for his own ambition. He is not going to stand aside for Davis or anyone else0 -
Was out for the night and woke up to this thread header, gave me a fright.
Do WH just keep your money till whenever?0 -
rottenborough said:MarqueeMark said:
But he only needs 47....Pulpstar said:
You have to start to wonder if perhaps even some of the old "declared letters" are sitting in the writer's top drawer.Morris_Dancer said:
Pathetic. ERG wingnuts haven't got the numbers. Their delusions extend to the number of letter writers they think they have.
Think it's best to wait for tomorrow and see what happens...0 -
May campaigned at last year's General Election on a Manifesto commitment that says:HYUFD said:As mentioned on Marr too the Sunday Express this morning is reporting Boris and Davis are in talks to see who should run if May goes.
Mogg is apparently ready to back Boris in return for being made Chancellor, while Steve Baker another ERG big beast will also get a Cabinet job. Davis is though also intending to run with the likely support of Raab.
Gove is being lined up as a compromise in favour of 'the Norway EEA option' and staying in the single market and the customs union as well. Rudd, Morgan and Boles may back Gove but Philip Lee and Justine Greening could also run on an EUref2, pro Remain and 'reverse Brexit' ticket.
Allies of May suggest if her Deal is rejected she may propose permanent Customs Union membership to get Labour support.
The 48 letters figure is expected to be reached tomorrow now with a no confidence vote potentially as early as next week
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1046795/brexit-news-theresa-may-confidence-vote-boris-johnson-jacob-rees-mogg-david-davis
"As we leave the European Union, we will no longer be members of the single market or the customs union"
Any change to that requires a new leader, then a new manifesto for a new election. Anything less is a fraud on the voters.
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It is a terrible irony but seems the Tory ultra dream of fleeing the EU will simply have enabled the Far Left total control over our lives.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1063396631448600577
We are all going to pay the price of this madness.0 -
I suspect that comment won't look so prescient by next weekend.....rottenborough said:MarqueeMark said:
But he only needs 47....Pulpstar said:
You have to start to wonder if perhaps even some of the old "declared letters" are sitting in the writer's top drawer.Morris_Dancer said:
Pathetic. ERG wingnuts haven't got the numbers. Their delusions extend to the number of letter writers they think they have.0 -
I think that is wise but Raab coming out in support of TM and declaring war on Boris is surprising.GIN1138 said:rottenborough said:MarqueeMark said:
But he only needs 47....Pulpstar said:
You have to start to wonder if perhaps even some of the old "declared letters" are sitting in the writer's top drawer.Morris_Dancer said:
Pathetic. ERG wingnuts haven't got the numbers. Their delusions extend to the number of letter writers they think they have.
Think it's best to wait for tomorrow and see what happens...
Also condemning the letter writing0 -
Hardly the most positive pitch to keep a PM in place: "It'll still be shit after I've gone...."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-462506070 -
Raab is not in the ERG. Nor is Johnson. Davis is. And in the cabinet so are Gove's gang of five, Gauke, Lewis, and Javid.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Johnson has far too many enemies to make it to Number 10, despite being the favourite for next Tory leader at Betfair as I type. I doubt he will even stand in the first round, let alone make it to the second.
Soon Rees-Mogg won't be able to deploy "take the piss" mode any more when he expresses a preference for who he wants as leader. There may be some table-banging for "you got us into this mess - you get us out of it". Encouraged to step up, he won't go all Frank Spencer. It's unlikely he screwed up his timing and I reckon he's value at 15.5. Then again it may be that Number 11 is his target, but still, he's value for next door.0 -
While I do not like your language it is true that we are heading for economic disaster under ERG or CorbynMarqueeMark said:Hardly the most positive pitch to keep a PM in place: "It'll still be shit after I've gone...."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-462506070 -
Infinitely preferable.HYUFD said:Cyclefree said:
The way some Tories are behaving is to make the prospect of Corbyn in power more likely. That fills me with horror. I do not think his instincts are fundamentally liberal or democratic or in favour of freedom. But those Tories behaving like extremist self-indulgent ninnies are behaving like his useful idiots and will bring about what they claim to abhor. They are a disgrace to their party. They are not patriots and they are taking the voters for fools.Nigelb said:
Me too...Cyclefree said:
I could not care less if the Tories destroy themselves. Just so long as they don’t destroy the country with them.Nigelb said:
More like fission in the Tory party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Are they bent on self-destruction ?
But the prospect of PM Corbyn navigating the aftermath of Brexit leaves the second bit in doubt.
Based on both polls last night Corbyn will only be in power having his policies dictated by Sturgeon and Blackford as he will need the SNP for confidence and supply.
Based on Sturgeon's comments on Marr she will demand the UK stays in the single market and the customs union as the price of her support.
So we will move from having a PM being dictated to by Arlene Foster to a PM being dictated to by Nicola Sturgeon0 -
Why would Corbyn agree to stay in the SM?OldKingCole said:
Infinitely preferable.HYUFD said:Cyclefree said:
The way some Tories are behaving is to make the prospect of Corbyn in power more likely. That fills me with horror. I do not think his instincts are fundamentally liberal or democratic or in favour of freedom. But those Tories behaving like extremist self-indulgent ninnies are behaving like his useful idiots and will bring about what they claim to abhor. They are a disgrace to their party. They are not patriots and they are taking the voters for fools.Nigelb said:
Me too...Cyclefree said:
I could not care less if the Tories destroy themselves. Just so long as they don’t destroy the country with them.Nigelb said:
More like fission in the Tory party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Are they bent on self-destruction ?
But the prospect of PM Corbyn navigating the aftermath of Brexit leaves the second bit in doubt.
Based on both polls last night Corbyn will only be in power having his policies dictated by Sturgeon and Blackford as he will need the SNP for confidence and supply.
Based on Sturgeon's comments on Marr she will demand the UK stays in the single market and the customs union as the price of her support.
So we will move from having a PM being dictated to by Arlene Foster to a PM being dictated to by Nicola Sturgeon0 -
Indeed - but the fact that May is still in place demonstrates the alternatives are even less positive.MarqueeMark said:Hardly the most positive pitch to keep a PM in place: "It'll still be shit after I've gone...."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-462506070 -
Laying May to survive to the end of the year at 2/1 is a steal.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky - Brady confirms letters are not at 48
I’ve just added more.0 -
I wonder if the ERG letter writing campaign is foundering on the inability of some of their members to read and write.0
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Best indicator is Last Price Matched. Raab, Javid and Boris all joint favourites based on this at 8.2.Notch said:
True, if you take the back price. By midprice it goes Johnson, Javid, Raab, Gove, Hunt.Barnesian said:I thought Raab was impressive on Marr though I fundamentally disagree with his vision of the UK's future.
I note that he is now favourite on Betfair to be next Tory leader.0 -
The ERG want "super Canada", which is a perfectly OK idea, but not for the Withdrawal Agreement.
So on the negative I think they fundamentally misunderstand the process.
On the other, we can dispatch Gove etc off to bat for that if we wanted to.0 -
you mean laying her to go in 2018, I thinkCasino_Royale said:
Laying May to survive to the end of the year at 2/1 is a steal.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky - Brady confirms letters are not at 48
I’ve just added more.0 -
The difference being that whoever instigates Brexit the end result is Cuba. At least the hard left know what they want and how to get it.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/10633966314486005770 -
Yes. Me too.Richard_Tyndall said:
I have some sympathy for it although it was never my preferred option because of the freedom of movement issue (I am a big fan). But it seems to me that we are past the point where we can currently prepare for that and avoid disruption on March 29th. This deal is terrible. And if it were a choice between this and No Deal I would probably prefer no deal in spite of the disruption. But the risk of Remain is too high and the consequences of that would be real disaster not just some short term discomfort.alex. said:
Do you personally claim much if any alignment with where the ERG want to apparently go on Brexit?Richard_Tyndall said:
The rules have changed and the risks involved are now far higher than they were in the past. A failure leaves May untouchable and able to do what she wants policy wise for the next year. Given that the ERG aim is to get rid of the policy not the person, they have to be a lot more cautious about strengthening May's hand.swing_voter said:
is this the best they can doHYUFD said:As mentioned on Marr too the Sunday Express this morning is reporting Boris and Davis are in talks to see who should run if May goes.
Mogg is apparently ready to back Boris in return for being made Chancellor, while Steve Baker another ERG big beast will also get a Cabinet job. Davis is though also intending to run with the likely support of Raab.
Gove is being lined up as a compromise in favour of 'the Norway EEA option' and staying in the single market and the customs union as well. Rudd, Morgan and Boles may back Gove but Philip Lee and Justine Greening could also run on a pro Remain and 'reverse Brexit' ticket.
Allies of May suggest if her Deal is rejected she may propose permanent Customs Union membership to get Labour support.
The 48 letters figure is expected to be reached tomorrow now with a no confidence vote potentially as early as next week
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1046795/brexit-news-theresa-may-confidence-vote-boris-johnson-jacob-rees-mogg-david-davis
to think that the Conservative party used to have a reputation for ruthlessness with its leaders when the time has come............
Hence my very reluctant support for the deal. And yes, for my sins, I did force myself to sit and read through the whole thing as I have done with every other EU treaty down the years.
If this deal doesn’t pass I doubt we’ll Leave at all. Ever.
It’s very obvious what the Remain play is here. All Leavers should think about that and if they could live with themselves if their actions led us to rebounding straight back in to a fully Federalised EU.0 -
Agreed. It's basically a bet on the effectiveness of modern diabetes treatment. And she looks well enough to me.Casino_Royale said:
Laying May to survive to the end of the year at 2/1 is a steal.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky - Brady confirms letters are not at 48
I’ve just added more.0 -
I'm caught up in the double negatives. Do you believe she will go before the end of 2018, or do you believe she will not go before the end of 2018?Casino_Royale said:
Laying May to survive to the end of the year at 2/1 is a steal.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky - Brady confirms letters are not at 48
I’ve just added more.0 -
I mean I am betting on her surviving in post until 1st Jan 2019 by laying the Oct-Dec 2018 exit date.TheWhiteRabbit said:
you mean laying her to go in 2018, I thinkCasino_Royale said:
Laying May to survive to the end of the year at 2/1 is a steal.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky - Brady confirms letters are not at 48
I’ve just added more.0 -
[]0
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That generally requires two elections. The wash up of the first is to the effect of “we failed because we were insufficiently far away from the centre”. See also the Corbyn Labour Party.Nigelb said:
After losing an election, perhaps.Cyclefree said:When will it dawn on the Tories that th
When will it dawn on the Tories that losing votes from the uncommitted middle, those who want a modicum of competence, is a big problem for them?TGOHF said:
When will it dawn on the wets in the Con party that their supporters not bothering to vote in the future is a big problem for them ?Cyclefree said:
She is more up to the job than any of the “extremist ninnies” (copyright: Alistair Meeks) who might replace her.TGOHF said:
She's either spectacularly failed at getting a reasonable deal or spectacularly failed at selling the deal to her own party, the opposition and the nation.Jonathan said:
She does seem to lack trust in Davis and Raab. On the basis of what we’ve seen I can’t say I blame her.MarqueeMark said:
"WTF???" at the stuff she concedes.Jonathan said:
Her tin ear is her downfall. You cannot adapt or convince if you do not listen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe tin ear against ERG is exactly what is neededJonathan said:
May might be a very poor politician with a tin ear, no ability to convince people or unable to think on her feet - but, she is not actively dangerous like Davis who is mind bogglingly incompetant.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He worse than that. He is a danger to our whole economyJonathan said:
She has one argument and one technique stating ‘I am right’ over and over again in the hope people will just get bored. She used this on technical mattered in the home office, but on this others disagree and she is doing nothing to convince them.
Or more likely both.
She has to go - she is simply not up to the job.
At what point, I wonder, will it dawn on the Tories that the EU deal is a final offer and they couldn’t care less about the psychodramas that intellectually challenged Tory or Labour politicians are going through?0 -
You mean backing? What is the market btw? Because if it's "PM" rather than "Tory leader" then the cutoff isn't necessarily the VonC.Casino_Royale said:
Laying May to survive to the end of the year at 2/1 is a steal.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky - Brady confirms letters are not at 48
I’ve just added more.0 -
"Baroness Chakrabarti says she has read all of it, unlike her leader Jeremy Corbyn who told Sky's Sophy Ridge he had read a lot of it."
By a lot, he means none....it was all a bit hard and he had some jam on the go.0 -
Thank you.Casino_Royale said:
I mean I am betting on her surviving in post until 1st Jan 2019 by laying the Oct-Dec 2018 exit date.TheWhiteRabbit said:
you mean laying her to go in 2018, I thinkCasino_Royale said:
Laying May to survive to the end of the year at 2/1 is a steal.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky - Brady confirms letters are not at 48
I’ve just added more.0 -
Just means somebody has been on TV. Unless it's Mogg, in which case he hasn't.stjohn said:
Best indicator is Last Price Matched. Raab, Javid and Boris all joint favourites based on this at 8.2.Notch said:
True, if you take the back price. By midprice it goes Johnson, Javid, Raab, Gove, Hunt.Barnesian said:I thought Raab was impressive on Marr though I fundamentally disagree with his vision of the UK's future.
I note that he is now favourite on Betfair to be next Tory leader.0 -
The end result could only be Cuba if No Deal Brexit but I agree the masochists of the ERG are making that more likely by the dayRecidivist said:
The difference being that whoever instigates Brexit the end result is Cuba. At least the hard left know what they want and how to get it.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/10633966314486005770 -
The ERG can have 'super Canada' for GB, even Barnier has said that but the price of that will be they will have to wave bye bye to Northern Ireland and the DUPTheWhiteRabbit said:The ERG want "super Canada", which is a perfectly OK idea, but not for the Withdrawal Agreement.
So on the negative I think they fundamentally misunderstand the process.
On the other, we can dispatch Gove etc off to bat for that if we wanted to.0 -
"Lieber ein Ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne Ende" ("Better an end with horror than a horror without end"). A sentiment with some horrible historical precedents...Recidivist said:
The difference being that whoever instigates Brexit the end result is Cuba. At least the hard left know what they want and how to get it.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1063396631448600577
0 -
Ironic that after England and Wales voted Leave it may end up they having their next two UKOldKingCole said:
Infinitely preferable.HYUFD said:Cyclefree said:
The way some Tories are behaving is to make the prospect of Corbyn in power more likely. That fills me with horror. I do not think his instincts are fundamentally liberal or democratic or in favour of freedom. But those Tories behaving like extremist self-indulgent ninnies are behaving like his useful idiots and will bring about what they claim to abhor. They are a disgrace to their party. They are not patriots and they are taking the voters for fools.Nigelb said:
Me too...Cyclefree said:
I could not care less if the Tories destroy themselves. Just so long as they don’t destroy the country with them.Nigelb said:
More like fission in the Tory party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Are they bent on self-destruction ?
But the prospect of PM Corbyn navigating the aftermath of Brexit leaves the second bit in doubt.
Based on both polls last night Corbyn will only be in power having his policies dictated by Sturgeon and Blackford as he will need the SNP for confidence and supply.
Based on Sturgeon's comments on Marr she will demand the UK stays in the single market and the customs union as the price of her support.
So we will move from having a PM being dictated to by Arlene Foster to a PM being dictated to by Nicola Sturgeon
government's controlled by the largest parties of Remain voting Northern Ireland and Scotland
0 -
The gang of five won't just pipe down. They've got a strong hand.Casino_Royale said:
I mean I am betting on her surviving in post until 1st Jan 2019 by laying the Oct-Dec 2018 exit date.TheWhiteRabbit said:
you mean laying her to go in 2018, I thinkCasino_Royale said:
Laying May to survive to the end of the year at 2/1 is a steal.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky - Brady confirms letters are not at 48
I’ve just added more.
May: "A VONC could stop Brexit". Gove: "Your proposal isn't Brexit".0 -
The EU meant that limits were imposed on how far the far right or far left could go as we may soon discover post Brexitrottenborough said:
It is a terrible irony but seems the Tory ultra dream of fleeing the EU will simply have enabled the Far Left total control over our lives.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1063396631448600577
We are all going to pay the price of this madness.0 -
n
Wasn’t that last year’s election? The one where the Tories lost their majority.matt said:
That generally requires two elections. The wash up of the first is to the effect of “we failed because we were insufficiently far away from the centre”. See also the Corbyn Labour Party.Nigelb said:
After losing an election, perhaps.Cyclefree said:When will it dawn on the Tories that th
When will it dawn on the Tories that losing votes from the uncommitted middle, those who want a modicum of competence, is a big problem for them?TGOHF said:
When will it dawn on the wets in the Con party that their supporters not bothering to vote in the future is a big problem for them ?Cyclefree said:
She is more up to the job than any of the “extremist ninnies” (copyright: Alistair Meeks) who might replace her.TGOHF said:
She's either spectacularly failed at getting a reasonable deal or spectacularly failed at selling the deal to her own party, the opposition and the nation.Jonathan said:MarqueeMark said:Jonathan said:
Or more likely both.
She has to go - she is simply not up to the job.
At what point, I wonder, will it dawn on the Tories that the EU deal is a final offer and they couldn’t care less about the psychodramas that intellectually challenged Tory or Labour politicians are going through?
Or do you think their current behaviour is going to make people more likely to vote for them?
JR-M as Chancellor should be an absolute winner, I’m sure.......0 -
That is their plan, yesGIN1138 said:
I reckon Raab and Davis will cook up a deal where Davis is caretaker PM for a year or so and then hands over to Raab to take the Tories into 2022...HYUFD said:
Raab is apparently backing Davis not Boris in the Express report. He also made clear he will vote against the DealBig_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Whether Davis would actually stick to that after enjoying the trappings of being PM is interesting to ponder...0 -
We will see but Davis is old enough for Raab to take over sooner rather than laterBig_G_NorthWales said:
You need to realise the Express is the ERG mouthpiece and needs to be treated with caution.HYUFD said:
Raab will endorse Davis according to the Express, young Crdinals like old PopesBarnesian said:I thought Raab was impressive on Marr though I fundamentally disagree with his vision of the UK's future.
I note that he is now favourite on Betfair to be next Tory leader.
Raab declaring war on Boris and loyalty to TM shows a determination for his own ambition. He is not going to stand aside for Davis or anyone else0 -
The voters did not give the Tories a majority for their manifesto and Labour policy is to stay in the customs union permanentlyMarqueeMark said:
May campaigned at last year's General Election on a Manifesto commitment that says:HYUFD said:As mentioned on Marr too the Sunday Express this morning is reporting Boris and Davis are in talks to see who should run if May goes.
Mogg is apparently ready to back Boris in return for being made Chancellor, while Steve Baker another ERG big beast will also get a Cabinet job. Davis is though also intending to run with the likely support of Raab.
Gove is being lined up as a compromise in favour of 'the Norway EEA option' and staying in the single market and the customs union as well. Rudd, Morgan and Boles may back Gove but Philip Lee and Justine Greening could also run on an EUref2, pro Remain and 'reverse Brexit' ticket.
Allies of May suggest if her Deal is rejected she may propose permanent Customs Union membership to get Labour support.
The 48 letters figure is expected to be reached tomorrow now with a no confidence vote potentially as early as next week
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1046795/brexit-news-theresa-may-confidence-vote-boris-johnson-jacob-rees-mogg-david-davis
"As we leave the European Union, we will no longer be members of the single market or the customs union"
Any change to that requires a new leader, then a new manifesto for a new election. Anything less is a fraud on the voters.0 -
Facebook Filed A Patent To Predict Your Household's Demographics Based On Family Photos
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/facebook-household-prediction-patent0 -
We’ll have the ECHR to rely on when Labour nationalise all our houses.HYUFD said:
The EU meant that limits were imposed on how far the far right or far left could go as we may soon discover post Brexitrottenborough said:
It is a terrible irony but seems the Tory ultra dream of fleeing the EU will simply have enabled the Far Left total control over our lives.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1063396631448600577
We are all going to pay the price of this madness.0 -
Davis is utterly hopeless - best he can do is to go to Oklahoma to discuss a trade deal - reallyHYUFD said:
We will see but Davis is old enough for Raab to take over sooner rather than laterBig_G_NorthWales said:
You need to realise the Express is the ERG mouthpiece and needs to be treated with caution.HYUFD said:
Raab will endorse Davis according to the Express, young Crdinals like old PopesBarnesian said:I thought Raab was impressive on Marr though I fundamentally disagree with his vision of the UK's future.
I note that he is now favourite on Betfair to be next Tory leader.
Raab declaring war on Boris and loyalty to TM shows a determination for his own ambition. He is not going to stand aside for Davis or anyone else0 -
Though against Corbyn Labour the Tories do not need to win the centre as Labour have also abandoned it and their is no strong centrist party. So winning a general election could come down to which party better mobilise their basematt said:
That generally requires two elections. The wash up of the first is to the effect of “we failed because we were insufficiently far away from the centre”. See also the Corbyn Labour Party.Nigelb said:
After losing an election, perhaps.Cyclefree said:When will it dawn on the Tories that th
When will it dawn on the Tories that losing votes from the uncommitted middle, those who want a modicum of competence, is a big problem for them?TGOHF said:
When will it dawn on the wets in the Con party that their supporters not bothering to vote in the future is a big problem for them ?Cyclefree said:
She is more up to the jough?TGOHF said:
She's either spectacularly failed at getting a reasonable deal or spectacularly failed at selling the deal to her own party, the opposition and the nation.Jonathan said:
She does seem to lack trust in Davis and Raab. On the basis of what we’ve seen I can’t say I blame her.MarqueeMark said:
"WTF???" at the stuff she concedes.Jonathan said:
Her tin ear is her downfall. You cannot adapt or convince if you do not listen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe tin ear against ERG is exactly what is neededJonathan said:
May might be a very poor politician with a tin ear, no ability to convince people or unable to think on her feet - but, she is not actively dangerous like Davis who is mind bogglingly incompetant.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He worse than that. He is a danger to our whole economyJonathan said:
She has one argument and one technique stating ‘I am right’ over and over again in the hope people will just get bored. She used this on technical mattered in the home office, but on this others disagree and she is doing nothing to convince them.
Or more likely both.
She has to go - she is simply not up to the job.0 -
How does that work then - some sort of Regency arranagement to avoid the necessary second leadership election?HYUFD said:
That is their plan, yesGIN1138 said:
I reckon Raab and Davis will cook up a deal where Davis is caretaker PM for a year or so and then hands over to Raab to take the Tories into 2022...HYUFD said:
Raab is apparently backing Davis not Boris in the Express report. He also made clear he will vote against the DealBig_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Whether Davis would actually stick to that after enjoying the trappings of being PM is interesting to ponder... 0 -
This is genuinely one of the most disgusting arguments in favour of the EU - that it should be there to prevent a country pursuing their own internal economic policies. It is as insidious and wrong as those who argue we should Leave the EU because it is too right wing/left wing.HYUFD said:
The EU meant that limits were imposed on how far the far right or far left could go as we may soon discover post Brexitrottenborough said:
It is a terrible irony but seems the Tory ultra dream of fleeing the EU will simply have enabled the Far Left total control over our lives.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1063396631448600577
We are all going to pay the price of this madness.0 -
I’m with you in theory.Richard_Tyndall said:
This is genuinely one of the most disgusting arguments in favour of the EU - that it should be there to prevent a country pursuing their own internal economic policies. It is as insidious and wrong as those who argue we should Leave the EU because it is too right wing/left wing.HYUFD said:
The EU meant that limits were imposed on how far the far right or far left could go as we may soon discover post Brexitrottenborough said:
It is a terrible irony but seems the Tory ultra dream of fleeing the EU will simply have enabled the Far Left total control over our lives.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1063396631448600577
We are all going to pay the price of this madness.
In reality, it’s harder to agree when the opposition is led by people who admire Venezuela’s government and like to talk about insurrection and capital controls.0 -
Which is why I think May will survive a VONC but if she loses it Davis would be a prime contender to take over, Howard to May's IDSBig_G_NorthWales said:
Davis is utterly hopeless - best he can do is to go to Oklahoma to discuss a trade deal - reallyHYUFD said:
We will see but Davis is old enough for Raab to take over sooner rather than laterBig_G_NorthWales said:
You need to realise the Express is the ERG mouthpiece and needs to be treated with caution.HYUFD said:
Raab will endorse Davis according to the Express, young Crdinals like old PopesBarnesian said:I thought Raab was impressive on Marr though I fundamentally disagree with his vision of the UK's future.
I note that he is now favourite on Betfair to be next Tory leader.
Raab declaring war on Boris and loyalty to TM shows a determination for his own ambition. He is not going to stand aside for Davis or anyone else
0 -
If you are a Eurocrat, trying to make sense of the Brexit process, you are probably thinking to yourself:
"Thank f*** they voted to leave....just give them a bit more, to make sure they actually do."0 -
I assume all those Leavers that wanted Nick Clegg charged with treason for talking to the EU about Brexit have called for Davis and Paterson to be charged for something similar for talking to Oklahoma about a trade deal?
No? I am shocked.
We really need a Logan Act.0 -
Unless Corbyn replaces it with a 'Socialist People's Republic Charter of Human Solidarity' to enforced by the 'Court of the People'Cyclefree said:
We’ll have the ECHR to rely on when Labour nationalise all our houses.HYUFD said:
The EU meant that limits were imposed on how far the far right or far left could go as we may soon discover post Brexitrottenborough said:
It is a terrible irony but seems the Tory ultra dream of fleeing the EU will simply have enabled the Far Left total control over our lives.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1063396631448600577
We are all going to pay the price of this madness.0 -
-
I know it is not your point Mark but I do not see how the current deal - in terms of the backstop - could give us a "bit" more.MarqueeMark said:If you are a Eurocrat, trying to make sense of the Brexit process, you are probably thinking to yourself:
"Thank f*** they voted to leave....just give them a bit more, to make sure they actually do."
What the ERG seemingly want (perhaps yourself also) is an exit from the backstop, which means it isn't a backstop any more and a new backstop would be needed, with all the bells and whistles that would take.0 -
I think that’s pretty spot-on. And that is what happened in the last election.HYUFD said:
Though against Corbyn Labour the Tories do not need to win the centre as Labour have also abandoned it and their is no strong centrist party. So winning a general election could come down to which party better mobilise their basematt said:
That generally requires two elections. The wash up of the first is to the effect of “we failed because we were insufficiently far away from the centre”. See also the Corbyn Labour Party.Nigelb said:
After losing an election, perhaps.Cyclefree said:When will it dawn on the Tories that th
When will it dawn on the Tories that losing votes from the uncommitted middle, those who want a modicum of competence, is a big problem for them?TGOHF said:
When will it dawn on the wets in the Con party that their supporters not bothering to vote in the future is a big problem for them ?Cyclefree said:
She is more up to the jough?TGOHF said:
She's either spectacularly failed at getting a reasonable deal or spectacularly failed at selling the deal to her own party, the opposition and the nation.Jonathan said:
She does seem to lack trust in Davis and Raab. On the basis of what we’ve seen I can’t say I blame her.MarqueeMark said:
"WTF???" at the stuff she concedes.Jonathan said:
Her tin ear is her downfall. You cannot adapt or convince if you do not listen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe tin ear against ERG is exactly what is neededJonathan said:
.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He worse than that. He is a danger to our whole economyJonathan said:
She has one argument and one technique stating ‘I am right’ over and over again in the hope people will just get bored. She used this on technical mattered in the home office, but on this others disagree and she is doing nothing to convince them.
Or more likely both.
She has to go - she is simply not up to the job.0 -
Davis as Howard to Raab's Brexiteer Cameron?alex. said:
How does that work then - some sort of Regency arranagement to avoid the necessary second leadership election?HYUFD said:
That is their plan, yesGIN1138 said:
I reckon Raab and Davis will cook up a deal where Davis is caretaker PM for a year or so and then hands over to Raab to take the Tories into 2022...HYUFD said:
Raab is apparently backing Davis not Boris in the Express report. He also made clear he will vote against the DealBig_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Whether Davis would actually stick to that after enjoying the trappings of being PM is interesting to ponder...0 -
Well fine but prepare for the risk of a Corbyn government pursuing real socialismRichard_Tyndall said:
This is genuinely one of the most disgusting arguments in favour of the EU - that it should be there to prevent a country pursuing their own internal economic policies. It is as insidious and wrong as those who argue we should Leave the EU because it is too right wing/left wing.HYUFD said:
The EU meant that limits were imposed on how far the far right or far left could go as we may soon discover post Brexitrottenborough said:
It is a terrible irony but seems the Tory ultra dream of fleeing the EU will simply have enabled the Far Left total control over our lives.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1063396631448600577
We are all going to pay the price of this madness.0 -
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Why is it any different in principle from having a constitution which limits the freedom of democratically elected governments to, say, take away or abuse peoples’ human rights?Richard_Tyndall said:
This is genuinely one of the most disgusting arguments in favour of the EU - that it should be there to prevent a country pursuing their own internal economic policies. It is as insidious and wrong as those who argue we should Leave the EU because it is too right wing/left wing.HYUFD said:
The EU meant that limits were imposed on how far the far right or far left could go as we may soon discover post Brexitrottenborough said:
It is a terrible irony but seems the Tory ultra dream of fleeing the EU will simply have enabled the Far Left total control over our lives.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1063396631448600577
We are all going to pay the price of this madness.
The EU has sought to set minimum standards of governance which all members must abide by. That seems to me to be a good thing to prevent a cabal who do not believe in such things taking power and ruining a country. There have been some notable examples in Europe, after all.0 -
I agree it is not a pleasant thought I agree. But that is no reason to wish for an external power to undermine the democratic vote.RoyalBlue said:
I’m with you in theory.Richard_Tyndall said:
This is genuinely one of the most disgusting arguments in favour of the EU - that it should be there to prevent a country pursuing their own internal economic policies. It is as insidious and wrong as those who argue we should Leave the EU because it is too right wing/left wing.HYUFD said:
The EU meant that limits were imposed on how far the far right or far left could go as we may soon discover post Brexitrottenborough said:
It is a terrible irony but seems the Tory ultra dream of fleeing the EU will simply have enabled the Far Left total control over our lives.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1063396631448600577
We are all going to pay the price of this madness.
In reality, it’s harder to agree when the opposition is led by people who admire Venezuela’s government and like to talk about insurrection and capital controls.0 -
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Because he wants to be PM. I think he’s got a degree* of patience which May and the current crop of ‘top’ Tories haven’t. I suspect...... and Mr P will have a much more educated opinion..... that being PM, even if he has to rely on the ‘sort of’ Social Democrat SNP will enable him to do some at least of the things he wants to do.Cyclefree said:
Why would Corbyn agree to stay in the SM?OldKingCole said:
Infinitely preferable.HYUFD said:Cyclefree said:
The way some Tories are behaving is to make the prospect of Corbyn in power more likely. That fills me with horror. I do not think his instincts are fundamentally liberal or democratic or in favour of freedom. But those Tories behaving like extremist self-indulgent ninnies are behaving like his useful idiots and will bring about what they claim to abhor. They are a disgrace to their party. They are not patriots and they are taking the voters for fools.Nigelb said:
Me too...Cyclefree said:
I could not care less if the Tories destroy themselves. Just so long as they don’t destroy the country with them.Nigelb said:
More like fission in the Tory party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Raab on Marr - Boris is not an ally and I support TM and will not be submitting a letter. Warfare in ERG
Are they bent on self-destruction ?
But the prospect of PM Corbyn navigating the aftermath of Brexit leaves the second bit in doubt.
Based on both polls last night Corbyn will only be in power having his policies dictated by Sturgeon and Blackford as he will need the SNP for confidence and supply.
Based on Sturgeon's comments on Marr she will demand the UK stays in the single market and the customs union as the price of her support.
So we will move from having a PM being dictated to by Arlene Foster to a PM being dictated to by Nicola Sturgeon
*And yes I know it’s his only degree!0 -
Which is why I prefer May to do the Deal but Boris as leader at the next general electionRecidivist said:
I think that’s pretty spot-on. And that is what happened in the last election.HYUFD said:
Though against Corbyn Labour the Tories do not need to win the centre as Labour have also abandoned it and their is no strong centrist party. So winning a general election could come down to which party better mobilise their basematt said:
Thay.Nigelb said:
After losing an election, perhaps.Cyclefree said:When will it dawn on the Tories that th
When will it dawn on the Tories that losing votes from the uncommitted middle, those who want a modicum of competence, is a big problem for them?TGOHF said:
When will it dawn on the wets in the Con party that their supporters not bothering to vote in the future is a big problem for them ?Cyclefree said:
She is more up to the jough?TGOHF said:
She's either spectacularly failed at getting a reasonable deal or spectacularly failed at selling the deal to her own party, the opposition and the nation.Jonathan said:
She does seem to lack trust in Davis and Raab. On the basis of what we’ve seen I can’t say I blame her.MarqueeMark said:
"WTF???" at the stuff she concedes.Jonathan said:
Her tin ear is her downfall. You cannot adapt or convince if you do not listen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe tin ear against ERG is exactly what is neededJonathan said:
.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He worse than that. He is a danger to our whole economyJonathan said:
She has one argument and one technique stating ‘I am right’ over and over again in the hope people will just get bored. She used this on technical mattered in the home office, but on this others disagree and she is doing nothing to convince them.
Or more likely both.
She has to go - she is simply not up to the job.
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The Germans might disagree with you on that point (let's cut out the discussion and go straight to Godwin)Richard_Tyndall said:
This is genuinely one of the most disgusting arguments in favour of the EU - that it should be there to prevent a country pursuing their own internal economic policies. It is as insidious and wrong as those who argue we should Leave the EU because it is too right wing/left wing.HYUFD said:
The EU meant that limits were imposed on how far the far right or far left could go as we may soon discover post Brexitrottenborough said:
It is a terrible irony but seems the Tory ultra dream of fleeing the EU will simply have enabled the Far Left total control over our lives.HYUFD said:
Indeed, while the ERG wants to use Brexit to become Singapore or Switzerland, Corbynites want to use Brexit to become Venezuela or Cubawilliamglenn said:
This is probably a good summary of Corbynite thinking on it:Big_G_NorthWales said:
One of his first objections was to the limit of state aid in the deal. Says it all really, this deal or remain puts him in a straightjacketFF43 said:
Having followed up the news item, I agree his comments were taken out of context and I was responding to those.daodao said:
Until the questions are set, Corbyn gave the most appropriate answer.FF43 said:
Corbyn turns out to be the most cynical politician of them all.CarlottaVance said:Don’t worry Jeremy, the rest of us do know how you’d vote....
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1064084069099683840?s=20
Nevertheless Corbyn's approach to Brexit remains highly cynical. He will just let disorder and inaction achieve what he wants - an exit - against the wishes of his party. He's dishonest in other respects - that wreath business for example. Meanwhile he and his supporters claim be is a breath of fresh air compared with other politicians.
He is as much an ultra brexiteer as any in ERG
https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1063396631448600577
We are all going to pay the price of this madness.0 -
Every time I’m prepared to compromise with Leavers they post shit like this and it makes me wish we stop Brexit.
https://twitter.com/profsked/status/1063892546085113858?s=210 -
It really is horrific.TheScreamingEagles said:Every time I’m prepared to compromise with Leavers they post shit like this and it makes me wish we stop Brexit.
https://twitter.com/profsked/status/1063892546085113858?s=210 -
He’s a bit slow. I’ve been making that suggestion for a while now. Where do I send my bill?TheScreamingEagles said:A Tory MP tweets.
https://twitter.com/garystreeterswd/status/1063753034210181120?s=210 -
Gary Streeter MP appears not to know that the logjam metaphor comes from logs in rivers getting caught up, not fallen trees on land.TheScreamingEagles said:A Tory MP tweets.
https://twitter.com/garystreeterswd/status/1063753034210181120?s=210 -
Does anyone understand what this means, or does it not mean anything?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/18/labour-keir-starmer-force-amendments-block-no-deal-brexitLabour is planning to force a Commons vote within weeks that would make it impossible for Britain to crash out of the European Union without a deal, as fears grow about a disastrous hard Brexit if parliament rejects Theresa May’s agreement.
What would the legislation say? It can't say take the deal, because it's about what happens if the deal is voted down, and it can't say take a different deal, because parliament can't mandate the EU to make and accept deals, and it probably can't mandate revoking Article 50, because that probably needs the other member states to agree. So what is it?
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If May does that my votes will be for No Deal and, if I lose, then for Corbyn. I am pretty certain this clever little plan will ensure Corbyn is our next PM.Cyclefree said:
He’s a bit slow. I’ve been making that suggestion for a while now. Where do I send my bill?TheScreamingEagles said:A Tory MP tweets.
https://twitter.com/garystreeterswd/status/1063753034210181120?s=210 -
But the whole point of this is that you won’t get to vote for No Deal.Richard_Tyndall said:
If May does that my votes will be for No Deal and, if I lose, then for Corbyn. I am pretty certain this clever little plan will ensure Corbyn is our next PM.Cyclefree said:
He’s a bit slow. I’ve been making that suggestion for a while now. Where do I send my bill?TheScreamingEagles said:A Tory MP tweets.
https://twitter.com/garystreeterswd/status/1063753034210181120?s=210 -
Nope. It is a massive curtailment of democracy and eventually leads to violence. Once people know their votes are worthless they turn to other means.Cyclefree said:
Why is it any different in principle from having a constitution which limits the freedom of democratically elected governments to, say, take away or abuse peoples’ human rights?
The EU has sought to set minimum standards of governance which all members must abide by. That seems to me to be a good thing to prevent a cabal who do not believe in such things taking power and ruining a country. There have been some notable examples in Europe, after all.0 -
What would the legislation say? It can't say take the deal, because it's about what happens if the deal is voted down, and it can't say take a different deal, because parliament can't mandate the EU to make and accept deals, and it probably can't mandate revoking Article 50, because that probably needs the other member states to agree. So what is it?edmundintokyo said:Does anyone understand what this means, or does it not mean anything?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/18/labour-keir-starmer-force-amendments-block-no-deal-brexitLabour is planning to force a Commons vote within weeks that would make it impossible for Britain to crash out of the European Union without a deal, as fears grow about a disastrous hard Brexit if parliament rejects Theresa May’s agreement.
Yes. Glad to hear I am not the only one struggling with this. How to we legislate against No Deal? Only by either accepting a deal or Remaining prevents No Deal.
We may as well propose a Bill that the Earth doesn't go around the Sun as of tomorrow.0
This discussion has been closed.