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NoGIN1138 said:Has Theresa May resigned yet?
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Smart question from Pat McFadden I think.
Highlighting the divisions within the Tory party very effectively.0 -
Fair point; she hasn’t added anything!Big_G_NorthWales said:TM put down Vince. He is so hopeless
It’s the way he did it though.0 -
TM rejects Canada ++0
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The Progressive Unionist Party held their conference at the weekend, these are the guys who actually did shoot you an extraxt from their winding up
" We want to make the case again for Northern Ireland. The DUP have come to represent Northern Ireland to those outside, a party whose political lexicon mostly consists of the word NO. Yet this misrepresents the people of Northern Ireland, a people who are friendly, warm industrious, resilient, genuine, resourceful, welcoming, humorous, gifted, and creative, if at times also fractious and obdurate. We want to create a country of which people can be proud, where everyone plays their part and makes their contribution, Gael and Planter, Unionist and Nationalist and newcomer."
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Am I right in thinking that I have missed nothing of any interest?0
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Another talent wasting on back benches thanks to the Momentum takeover.rkrkrk said:Smart question from Pat McFadden I think.
Highlighting the divisions within the Tory party very effectively.0 -
The people had a vote AND THEY BLEW IT xD0
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Well????????AlastairMeeks said:Am I right in thinking that I have missed nothing of any interest?
How did it go?0 -
He asked clearly whether May would confirm that NI would not be left in the CU OR the SM, and May did not answer him. She talked about how NI would be able to trade with both the EU and UK - pretty much confirmation that she intends to agree to a regulatory border in the Irish Sea. This is Barnier's language.CarlottaVance said:Nigel Dodds heard in near silence - clearly worth paying attention to.
This is all just theatre. She is going to come back with the UK backstop that is 'temporary' but that the UK has no ability to exit without activating the NI backstop.
I think the DUP, the ERG and the Leavers in the Cabinet are listening to this and realising that May is never going get it and will have to be replaced. It has been a hapless performance.0 -
May steering a course between the Soubryites, Moggites and DUP as usual.AlastairMeeks said:Am I right in thinking that I have missed nothing of any interest?
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As one of my friends wisely says, never reveal the secrets of the bedchamber.TOPPING said:
Well????????AlastairMeeks said:Am I right in thinking that I have missed nothing of any interest?
How did it go?0 -
Yup.AlastairMeeks said:Am I right in thinking that I have missed nothing of any interest?
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To govern is to choose.
Or it was, anyway.
Aurelian wouldn't've dicked about by this. And he faced far worse problems. But then, he was a fantastic leader.0 -
Very wise.AlastairMeeks said:
As one of my friends wisely says, never reveal the secrets of the bedchamber.TOPPING said:
Well????????AlastairMeeks said:Am I right in thinking that I have missed nothing of any interest?
How did it go?0 -
He had a bloody difficult woman to deal with didn't he? If he was the one that I am thinking of that destroyed Palmyra.Morris_Dancer said:To govern is to choose.
Or it was, anyway.
Aurelian wouldn't've dicked about by this. And he faced far worse problems. But then, he was a fantastic leader.0 -
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It seems that she is attempting to keep the DUP on board but also playing for time, though she has rejected Canada ++AlastairMeeks said:Am I right in thinking that I have missed nothing of any interest?
Not sure how this pans out. Maybe just keep kicking the can down the road to reduce the time to putting a deal to the HOC maybe as late as the end of December0 -
You want to avoid a modern day Bedchamber crisis?AlastairMeeks said:
As one of my friends wisely says, never reveal the secrets of the bedchamber.TOPPING said:
Well????????AlastairMeeks said:Am I right in thinking that I have missed nothing of any interest?
How did it go?0 -
The message I got from TM was that there is a deal to be done with the EU (note praise for progress etc.) but only if her party allows her to do it.0
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Mr. Recidivist, indeed. He took Zenobia to Rome. In golden chains. And reconquered the breakaway Gallic Empire too.0
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But what about Canada +++Big_G_NorthWales said:TM rejects Canada ++
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Finally Dan Hodges posts a worthwhile observation https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/10518547761311170560
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May being very careful with her words about NI but to me she just confirmed that NI would be party to any future UK trade deals. How does this work?0
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... so he'd vote for hard Brexit... ?Scott_P said:
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They do not seem to have the numbers and of course a wrong move by them will see TM in office for a further 12 months. Also the DUP do not control the conservative mpsarcher101au said:
He asked clearly whether May would confirm that NI would not be left in the CU OR the SM, and May did not answer him. She talked about how NI would be able to trade with both the EU and UK - pretty much confirmation that she intends to agree to a regulatory border in the Irish Sea. This is Barnier's language.CarlottaVance said:Nigel Dodds heard in near silence - clearly worth paying attention to.
This is all just theatre. She is going to come back with the UK backstop that is 'temporary' but that the UK has no ability to exit without activating the NI backstop.
I think the DUP, the ERG and the Leavers in the Cabinet are listening to this and realising that May is never going get it and will have to be replaced. It has been a hapless performance.0 -
oh really,rottenborough said:
when Adonis leaves the Lods he must be trated with derision and contempt all the time0 -
Sounds a little different from appraisals I've taken part in.AlastairMeeks said:
As one of my friends wisely says, never reveal the secrets of the bedchamber.TOPPING said:
Well????????AlastairMeeks said:Am I right in thinking that I have missed nothing of any interest?
How did it go?
What is your profession.... ?0 -
Actually Boris did and so did Mr Dodds on behalf of the DUP. Both of which are pretty significant given the arithmetic in the House. So Dan's comment is to his usual standard.eek said:Finally Dan Hodges posts a worthwhile observation https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1051854776131117056
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Not what she said. She is saying that IF Chequers is agreed, the there would be no backstop and therefore NI could be part of the trade deals that would be done.Gallowgate said:May being very careful with her words about NI but to me she just confirmed that NI would be party to any future UK trade deals. How does this work?
The problem is that Chequers is a fantasy and in any event not legally binding.
She did not say that in all circumstances NI could be included in UK trade deals, because it is not true.0 -
What is 'this'?TheScreamingEagles said:
There is no 'this'. No deal has been made and none looks remotely likely.0 -
Well that would have created a really big single market and led to a great deal of prosperity. No wonder he splashed out on the chain material.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Recidivist, indeed. He took Zenobia to Rome. In golden chains. And reconquered the breakaway Gallic Empire too.
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that man is such a drip how did he ever get to be AG ?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
It seems equally likely that she wants the UK as a whole in the CU or SM/CU. Which would likewise ensure frictionless trade between the UK's component parts.archer101au said:
He asked clearly whether May would confirm that NI would not be left in the CU OR the SM, and May did not answer him. She talked about how NI would be able to trade with both the EU and UK - pretty much confirmation that she intends to agree to a regulatory border in the Irish Sea. This is Barnier's language.CarlottaVance said:Nigel Dodds heard in near silence - clearly worth paying attention to.
This is all just theatre. She is going to come back with the UK backstop that is 'temporary' but that the UK has no ability to exit without activating the NI backstop.
I think the DUP, the ERG and the Leavers in the Cabinet are listening to this and realising that May is never going get it and will have to be replaced. It has been a hapless performance.0 -
If Trump ever comes on PB offering a bet, turn him down.
Trump denies offering $1 million for Warren DNA test, even though he did
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/411414-trump-denies-offering-1-million-for-warren-dna-test-even-though-he0 -
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Especially b4 wine o'clock.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think that is her default positionPulpstar said:Anna Soubry not looking very happy.
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Now that's REAL gaslighting.Nigelb said:If Trump ever comes on PB offering a bet, turn him down.
Trump denies offering $1 million for Warren DNA test, even though he did
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/411414-trump-denies-offering-1-million-for-warren-dna-test-even-though-he0 -
Sir Nicholas Soames just did as well......DavidL said:
Actually Boris did and so did Mr Dodds on behalf of the DUP. Both of which are pretty significant given the arithmetic in the House. So Dan's comment is to his usual standard.eek said:Finally Dan Hodges posts a worthwhile observation https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1051854776131117056
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Lots and lots of intellectual self confidence.Alanbrooke said:
that man is such a drip how did he ever get to be AG ?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
AstraZeneca halts UK investments due to Brexit - Le Monde
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-astrazeneca/astrazeneca-halts-uk-investments-due-to-brexit-le-monde-idUKKCN1MP1Q90 -
Its gone beyond parody. We know all of the things she is against. All she is for is "Brexit", and when the list of viable options is read out she says "no" to all of them.Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1051854094774734856
...another day in No10
Conclusions:
1. De Facto if not yet De Jure the policy of HMG is No Deal
2. She has accepted that all viable options will be voted down/rejected/have her sacked. Thefore the only option is to kick the can down the road until it gets swept over the waterfall
3. She hopes to smear all of her opponents (pretty much everyone) with shit so that when she joins Andrea Jenkyns with "you're fucked, but you're BRITISH and that means you'll starve with patriotic fervour. Vote Conservative" they won't sack her
We CANNOT keep prevaricating any longer yet "no" is her answer to all scenarios. So her own personal survival is all that matters - perhaps it is similar to Brown where Godly toil will ultimately be rewarded.
Electorally there is no benefit to be had here. Its a small minority who when project fear turns into reality will be happy. The rest will be shocked, then angry, then furious. As others have pointed out its votes on both sides that decide elections, and you can only see the Tory vote haemmorage whether or not she now blinks and capitulates or patriotically hurls us over the edge. Labour will "win" the next election, but what ruins will they take charge of?0 -
This statement may actually have been a smart move by Theresa May. By demonstrating publicly the pressures that she is under from all sides, those on the EU side will gain a renewed appreciation of her limited room for manoeuvre. If it encourages more flexibility from them, that would have been an effective use of time.0
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Well if he were to light his own farts, it would represent an improvement in the standard of his discourse, I suppose.logical_song said:
Now that's REAL gaslighting.Nigelb said:If Trump ever comes on PB offering a bet, turn him down.
Trump denies offering $1 million for Warren DNA test, even though he did
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/411414-trump-denies-offering-1-million-for-warren-dna-test-even-though-he0 -
Or has the mood changed?Big_G_NorthWales said:
They do not seem to have the numbers and of course a wrong move by them will see TM in office for a further 12 months. Also the DUP do not control the conservative mpsarcher101au said:
He asked clearly whether May would confirm that NI would not be left in the CU OR the SM, and May did not answer him. She talked about how NI would be able to trade with both the EU and UK - pretty much confirmation that she intends to agree to a regulatory border in the Irish Sea. This is Barnier's language.CarlottaVance said:Nigel Dodds heard in near silence - clearly worth paying attention to.
This is all just theatre. She is going to come back with the UK backstop that is 'temporary' but that the UK has no ability to exit without activating the NI backstop.
I think the DUP, the ERG and the Leavers in the Cabinet are listening to this and realising that May is never going get it and will have to be replaced. It has been a hapless performance.
From this level of support in the House, and the alleged level of support from the Cabinet, it may have got to the point where both wings of the Brexit debate see that she is untenable. If the letters go in I can now see more MPs on the remain side voting No Confidence. I can no longer see many Con MPs who would give her confidence.
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He's never seen anything like it because he's never been elected to the Commons.rottenborough said:0 -
Or alternatively it encourages the different sides in parliament to be more cognisant of the stalemate. So far the argument that's been put most consistently by MPs has been about the need to go back to the people.AlastairMeeks said:This statement may actually have been a smart move by Theresa May. By demonstrating publicly the pressures that she is under from all sides, those on the EU side will gain a renewed appreciation of her limited room for manoeuvre. If it encourages more flexibility from them, that would have been an effective use of time.
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misplacedTheScreamingEagles said:
Lots and lots of intellectual self confidence.Alanbrooke said:
that man is such a drip how did he ever get to be AG ?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
There you go, what lawyers have in abundance, justified or not!TheScreamingEagles said:
Lots and lots of intellectual self confidence.Alanbrooke said:
that man is such a drip how did he ever get to be AG ?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Tissue_Price said:
He's never seen anything like it because he's never been elected to the Commons.rottenborough said: 0 -
Like it was ever in doubt.....CarlottaVance said:
The guy has spent the last year or so on the EU's side of the negotiating table.0 -
No sh*t Sherlock...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
TM said that if the negotiations result in no deal she will bring it back to the house and it is for the house to decide what to do
Opening for a second referendum ?0 -
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No I think she did say that in reply to Dodds. Whether it is true is another matter.archer101au said:
Not what she said. She is saying that IF Chequers is agreed, the there would be no backstop and therefore NI could be part of the trade deals that would be done.Gallowgate said:May being very careful with her words about NI but to me she just confirmed that NI would be party to any future UK trade deals. How does this work?
The problem is that Chequers is a fantasy and in any event not legally binding.
She did not say that in all circumstances NI could be included in UK trade deals, because it is not true.0 -
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They may feel sorry for her and they no doubt genuinely want to avoid No Deal, but what can they actually do?AlastairMeeks said:This statement may actually have been a smart move by Theresa May. By demonstrating publicly the pressures that she is under from all sides, those on the EU side will gain a renewed appreciation of her limited room for manoeuvre. If it encourages more flexibility from them, that would have been an effective use of time.
They can't allow cherry picking and they can't sell Eire out regarding the border.0 -
maybe they shouldnt have made it an issue thenTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
....and if it is a shit deal for the UK.Verulamius said:The message I got from TM was that there is a deal to be done with the EU (note praise for progress etc.) but only if her party allows her to do it.
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The pity vote? Well it's worth a try.AlastairMeeks said:This statement may actually have been a smart move by Theresa May. By demonstrating publicly the pressures that she is under from all sides, those on the EU side will gain a renewed appreciation of her limited room for manoeuvre. If it encourages more flexibility from them, that would have been an effective use of time.
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Its not May that is untenable, its the Conservative party that's untenable.philiph said:
Or has the mood changed?Big_G_NorthWales said:
They do not seem to have the numbers and of course a wrong move by them will see TM in office for a further 12 months. Also the DUP do not control the conservative mpsarcher101au said:
He asked clearly whether May would confirm that NI would not be left in the CU OR the SM, and May did not answer him. She talked about how NI would be able to trade with both the EU and UK - pretty much confirmation that she intends to agree to a regulatory border in the Irish Sea. This is Barnier's language.CarlottaVance said:Nigel Dodds heard in near silence - clearly worth paying attention to.
This is all just theatre. She is going to come back with the UK backstop that is 'temporary' but that the UK has no ability to exit without activating the NI backstop.
I think the DUP, the ERG and the Leavers in the Cabinet are listening to this and realising that May is never going get it and will have to be replaced. It has been a hapless performance.
it may have got to the point where both wings of the Brexit debate see that she is untenable.
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Macron to speak to TM later today
Thought everything had to go through Barnier0 -
He did make it onto Oxford City Council for 4 years....as a Lib Dem.....and that's it.Tissue_Price said:
He's never seen anything like it because he's never been elected to the Commons.rottenborough said:
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Other than our political class making embarrassing fools of themselves. Again. No.AlastairMeeks said:Am I right in thinking that I have missed nothing of any interest?
PS I hope you got a humungous bonus for your rain-making suggestion that McDonnell nationalise pensions. The amount of work that will create must have made your appraisers very happy indeed!0 -
the border is a made up issue, they can kill it any time they wantlogical_song said:
They may feel sorry for her and they no doubt genuinely want to avoid No Deal, but what can they actually do?AlastairMeeks said:This statement may actually have been a smart move by Theresa May. By demonstrating publicly the pressures that she is under from all sides, those on the EU side will gain a renewed appreciation of her limited room for manoeuvre. If it encourages more flexibility from them, that would have been an effective use of time.
They can't allow cherry picking and they can't sell Eire out regarding the border.0 -
'No confidence' in the government?philiph said:
Or has the mood changed?Big_G_NorthWales said:
They do not seem to have the numbers and of course a wrong move by them will see TM in office for a further 12 months. Also the DUP do not control the conservative mpsarcher101au said:
He asked clearly whether May would confirm that NI would not be left in the CU OR the SM, and May did not answer him. She talked about how NI would be able to trade with both the EU and UK - pretty much confirmation that she intends to agree to a regulatory border in the Irish Sea. This is Barnier's language.CarlottaVance said:Nigel Dodds heard in near silence - clearly worth paying attention to.
This is all just theatre. She is going to come back with the UK backstop that is 'temporary' but that the UK has no ability to exit without activating the NI backstop.
I think the DUP, the ERG and the Leavers in the Cabinet are listening to this and realising that May is never going get it and will have to be replaced. It has been a hapless performance.
From this level of support in the House, and the alleged level of support from the Cabinet, it may have got to the point where both wings of the Brexit debate see that she is untenable. If the letters go in I can now see more MPs on the remain side voting No Confidence. I can no longer see many Con MPs who would give her confidence.
That's of course different from a challenge to Mrs May for leadership of the Tory Party.0 -
It is an issue because there will be a land border between the EU and a third country, and that border will be in NI.Alanbrooke said:
maybe they shouldnt have made it an issue thenTheScreamingEagles said:
The EU haven't 'made' it an issue. It is an issue. It always was.0 -
Killing at the border is what we all wish to avoidAlanbrooke said:the border is a made up issue, they can kill it any time they want
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Lab don't need new voters. They just need enough conservatives ****ed off by this shower to sit on their hands.0
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Tell that to the DUP.Alanbrooke said:
the border is a made up issue, they can kill it any time they wantlogical_song said:
They may feel sorry for her and they no doubt genuinely want to avoid No Deal, but what can they actually do?AlastairMeeks said:This statement may actually have been a smart move by Theresa May. By demonstrating publicly the pressures that she is under from all sides, those on the EU side will gain a renewed appreciation of her limited room for manoeuvre. If it encourages more flexibility from them, that would have been an effective use of time.
They can't allow cherry picking and they can't sell Eire out regarding the border.0 -
Actually that was a surprising comment and I think you are right to highlight it. No idea what she meant but she didn't need to say it like that.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM said that if the negotiations result in no deal she will bring it back to the house and it is for the house to decide what to do
Opening for a second referendum ?0 -
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He's going to point to the pearl handled revolver and ask why she hasn't used it alreadyBig_G_NorthWales said:Macron to speak to TM later today
Thought everything had to go through Barnier0 -
no there were enough ways to make the border go away so that it didnt stall a deal. The EU chose to make this a negotiating point and now are increasingly hosited on their own petard. They charged in to the Ulster cul de sac and now are surprised theres no way forward.rottenborough said:
It is an issue because there will be a land border between the EU and a third country, and that border will be in NI.Alanbrooke said:
maybe they shouldnt have made it an issue thenTheScreamingEagles said:
The EU haven't 'made' it an issue. It is an issue. It always was.0 -
He just wants to talk to someone less popular than he is. "It could be worse, Mme. May. I could be vous!".Big_G_NorthWales said:Macron to speak to TM later today
Thought everything had to go through Barnier0 -
Agreed. This is a part of the negotiation and the Commons has played its part.AlastairMeeks said:This statement may actually have been a smart move by Theresa May. By demonstrating publicly the pressures that she is under from all sides, those on the EU side will gain a renewed appreciation of her limited room for manoeuvre. If it encourages more flexibility from them, that would have been an effective use of time.
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Guardian suggests that if the Commons voted for a second referendum the Government would consider it.0
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Let's hope it is feeling that way to Brussels too....rottenborough said:0 -
the DUP are quite contentedly sitting like a fat spider pulling the strings. The stupidity of Dublin London and Brussels has put them there and they will have their pound of fleshlogical_song said:
Tell that to the DUP.Alanbrooke said:
the border is a made up issue, they can kill it any time they wantlogical_song said:
They may feel sorry for her and they no doubt genuinely want to avoid No Deal, but what can they actually do?AlastairMeeks said:This statement may actually have been a smart move by Theresa May. By demonstrating publicly the pressures that she is under from all sides, those on the EU side will gain a renewed appreciation of her limited room for manoeuvre. If it encourages more flexibility from them, that would have been an effective use of time.
They can't allow cherry picking and they can't sell Eire out regarding the border.0 -
Is macron 'the cavalry'?Big_G_NorthWales said:Macron to speak to TM later today
Thought everything had to go through Barnier
Riding to the rescue with an offer to change EU policy - limits on migration all round?
Although maybe we could already:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/06/free-movement-isnt-free-truth-about-eu-immigration0 -
Alanbrooke said:
the border is a made up issue, they can kill it any time they wantlogical_song said:
They may feel sorry for her and they no doubt genuinely want to avoid No Deal, but what can they actually do?AlastairMeeks said:This statement may actually have been a smart move by Theresa May. By demonstrating publicly the pressures that she is under from all sides, those on the EU side will gain a renewed appreciation of her limited room for manoeuvre. If it encourages more flexibility from them, that would have been an effective use of time.
They can't allow cherry picking and they can't sell Eire out regarding the border.
How? By allowing a hard border? By keeping a soft border and thus ignoring the fact the UK will be a third-party after Brexit? Everyone's looking for an answer here.Alanbrooke said:
the border is a made up issue, they can kill it any time they wantlogical_song said:
They may feel sorry for her and they no doubt genuinely want to avoid No Deal, but what can they actually do?AlastairMeeks said:This statement may actually have been a smart move by Theresa May. By demonstrating publicly the pressures that she is under from all sides, those on the EU side will gain a renewed appreciation of her limited room for manoeuvre. If it encourages more flexibility from them, that would have been an effective use of time.
They can't allow cherry picking and they can't sell Eire out regarding the border.0 -
Also Heidi Allen MP is going to oppose anything but remain.MarqueeMark said:
Like it was ever in doubt.....CarlottaVance said:
The guy has spent the last year or so on the EU's side of the negotiating table.0 -
then the sensible thing was not to make it an issueScott_P said:
Killing at the border is what we all wish to avoidAlanbrooke said:the border is a made up issue, they can kill it any time they want
let sleeping dogs lie0
