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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » To win the next election LAB need to find converts and it’s ha

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    I have Sarah Newton on, am I live ?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Question:

    Does this man, Michal Tusk, look like an antichrist to you?

    http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/8f/0c/bb/z12258447V,Michal-Tusk.jpg

    Honestly he looks like a competitor on The Apprentice, which is good enough for me.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    welshowl said:

    The problem, as far as the DUP is concerned, is that the whole thing stems from the Treaty of Rome.
    Therefore an extreme negative view is the default position.

    image
    I suspect for the DUP it’s not so much the Treaty of Rome 1957, as the break with Rome 1536. I wonder if Brussels has quite worked out it may as well be in 1690 as 2018 and that’s what they are dealing with.

    That said the DUP, for all their faults, are consistent and have an entirely logical position, they wish to be in the U.K. , U.K. single market and all, and handing them over without the consent of NI to the EU SM over which they would have no say is democratic non starter. If they are to pay customs dues to Brussels it’s taxation without representation. And that tends to lead to trouble for those trying to do the taxing.
    I don’t think 1536 comes into it; it’s more John Knox.
  • Question:

    Does this man, Michal Tusk, look like an antichrist to you?

    http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/8f/0c/bb/z12258447V,Michal-Tusk.jpg

    Honestly he looks like a competitor on The Apprentice, which is good enough for me.

    When you see him do you see a second coming?
  • TM takes her place.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    Pulpstar said:

    I have Sarah Newton on, am I live ?

    Up to a point....
  • I'd argue they don't have to get any new converts to win.
    They merely need the Tories to lose votes. Whether to UKIP, the Lib Dems, the Greens, a new party, or even just sitting on their hands at home, it doesn't matter.

    For example, if you got exactly the same votes for everyone other than the Tories, and the Tories lost 2 million votes:

    Tories lose 41 seats to Labour, 3 to the Lib Dems, 2 to the SNP.

    Con 271
    Lab 303
    SNP 37
    LD 15

    That on its own would make Labour favourite to take 10 Downing Street. Given as well that many of the SNP/Labour seats are very close in terms of majority, a handful of SNP voters staying home could put Corbyn very close to going over the top - with not a single extra vote being won.

    I don't think Labour has anything like the appeal that it had on June 8th last year. I'm in what could be the tightest constituency in the UK and have tactically voted in the past two elections. that won't happen again.
    Do you mean Mike that you voted for Corbyn at the last election and against free markets? And you a Liberal Democrat!
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    justin124 said:

    If there’s an election campaign both the LibDems and the Greens will get a lot more attention. That might change the picture somewhat.

    The LibDems should get less broadcasting time allocated to them at the next election on account of their poor performances in both 2015 & 2017. They are also unlikely to qualify for as many PPBs as in recent elections.
    But they will be at the debates, and an appearance at one leaders' debate is potentially worth fifty PPBs. (Indeed, the time has really come to scrap PPBs, which are pointless in the age of social media and multi-channel-TV).
    There is also a case for restricting social media activity but while both parties think they have an advantage there, it won't happen.
    I don't think that's possible, and it's probably not desirable. Social media is the equivalent of the press, not the electronic media in the monopoly era. There was a good argument for having enforced neutrality on the BBC/ITV when they were the only two providers of TV services, and when the BBC dominated the radio; I'm doubtful that there's a good argument any more, other than that changing it could produce a race to the bottom with the likes of Fox News and RT.

    That said, regulation of all forms of media is in need of reform and there is a case for bringing all under the same legally-enforceable code.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    welshowl said:

    The problem, as far as the DUP is concerned, is that the whole thing stems from the Treaty of Rome.
    Therefore an extreme negative view is the default position.

    image
    I suspect for the DUP it’s not so much the Treaty of Rome 1957, as the break with Rome 1536. I wonder if Brussels has quite worked out it may as well be in 1690 as 2018 and that’s what they are dealing with.

    That said the DUP, for all their faults, are consistent and have an entirely logical position, they wish to be in the U.K. , U.K. single market and all, and handing them over without the consent of NI to the EU SM over which they would have no say is democratic non starter. If they are to pay customs dues to Brussels it’s taxation without representation. And that tends to lead to trouble for those trying to do the taxing.
    I don’t think 1536 comes into it; it’s more John Knox.
    Take your point. I’m sure he could bellow from a pulpit with the best of them.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    The problem, as far as the DUP is concerned, is that the whole thing stems from the Treaty of Rome.
    Therefore an extreme negative view is the default position.

    image
    Did we get any of those 4 things?
    I must have missed the Antichrist.
    Would everything really be so bad under the antichrist? Would rail fares and timetables be as bad?
    Would the Brexit negotiation really be so bad if led by the whore of Babylon? Would they duck leadership debates, or ride in on a seven headed beast and steal the show?
    Sounds marginally worse than Brexit.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Scott_P said:
    Inevitable I suppose, but depressing nevertheless.
    It's an impossible job, but kicking the can can't go on and blaming others isn't helpful.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    So we are still going to get a deal then?

    Hey ho.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Scott_P said:
    Oh for the love of God, no!

    She has fucked up royally, is continuing to fuck it up and needs to go.

    Sorry for the profanity. But it is just embarrassing what our pitiful political class is doing to us.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    OH MY FUCKING CHRIST

    SHE IS ACTUALLY PRETENDING THAT EVERYTHING IS FINE

    Please, for the love of jiggling fuck, somebody please VONC her now.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Slackbladder, perhaps "an inability to get anything agreed let alone win a vote on it means an inability to get anything agreed let alone win a vote on it"?
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Theresa May keeps using the word "remain". #Freud
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    No sound here, how's the bingo card doing ?

    https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/1051808304236781569
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:
    If this is true then why haven't they made so much more if it since last December when it was agreed?
    Because it was changed in December to all U.K.

    The EU has gone back on the agreement and May has caved
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    I'd argue they don't have to get any new converts to win.
    They merely need the Tories to lose votes. Whether to UKIP, the Lib Dems, the Greens, a new party, or even just sitting on their hands at home, it doesn't matter.

    For example, if you got exactly the same votes for everyone other than the Tories, and the Tories lost 2 million votes:

    Tories lose 41 seats to Labour, 3 to the Lib Dems, 2 to the SNP.

    Con 271
    Lab 303
    SNP 37
    LD 15

    That on its own would make Labour favourite to take 10 Downing Street. Given as well that many of the SNP/Labour seats are very close in terms of majority, a handful of SNP voters staying home could put Corbyn very close to going over the top - with not a single extra vote being won.

    I don't think Labour has anything like the appeal that it had on June 8th last year. I'm in what could be the tightest constituency in the UK and have tactically voted in the past two elections. that won't happen again.
    Do you mean Mike that you voted for Corbyn at the last election and against free markets? And you a Liberal Democrat!
    As I recorded at the time I did a vote swap with an old Labour friend who lives is Twickenham. Both that seat and Bedford were CON losses.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    The House seems to be indulging in what could charitably called "mocking laughter".
  • Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:
    If this is true then why haven't they made so much more if it since last December when it was agreed?
    Because it was changed in December to all U.K.

    The EU has gone back on the agreement and May has caved
    The EU never agreed to all UK.
  • Is that it?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Pulpstar said:

    No sound here, how's the bingo card doing ?

    https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/1051808304236781569

    It doesn't matter. It's all sound and fury, signifying nothing.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Corbyn: " This is beginning to feel like Groundhog Day"
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    justin124 said:

    If there’s an election campaign both the LibDems and the Greens will get a lot more attention. That might change the picture somewhat.

    The LibDems should get less broadcasting time allocated to them at the next election on account of their poor performances in both 2015 & 2017. They are also unlikely to qualify for as many PPBs as in recent elections.
    But they will be at the debates, and an appearance at one leaders' debate is potentially worth fifty PPBs. (Indeed, the time has really come to scrap PPBs, which are pointless in the age of social media and multi-channel-TV).
    Why should they attend the debates

    They have between 1/3 and 1/4 of the votes of the 2 largest parties. They have less than 10% of the MPs of the 2 largest and are substantially smaller than the SNP and about the same size as the DUP

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Does PB think the bell has tolled for May?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    The house feels full of riotous contempt. I like it when the House is like this.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    Pulpstar said:
    The EU really is badly advised on domestic UK politics. Got it wrong on Cameron's renegotiation, getting wrong on the Article 50 process. Who's talking to them - our civil service?
    Who`s talking to the EU? Only the people at the top of the Conservative Party, none of whom has a clue about the real world, and all seem to think that whatever they wish for will be given them. Spoilt brats! And they are certainly not well briefed. How about that idiot talking about acquiring Irish nationality! A leading Tory!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    May is gaslighting everyone. That statement bore no relation to reality.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited October 2018

    OH MY FUCKING CHRIST

    SHE IS ACTUALLY PRETENDING THAT EVERYTHING IS FINE

    Please, for the love of jiggling fuck, somebody please VONC her now.

    Rather than VONC, better to achieve 48 letters to the 1922 Committee so that a Conservative leader challenge takes place.
  • Does PB think the bell has tolled for May?

    Seems to have been tolling for a long time. But she is still there
  • Pound level for the day
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Bercow asking for "calm" might just be pissing in the wind today.
  • And of course we have Corbyn - hopeless beyond hopeless
  • It really is shit or get off the pot. She can't delay reality any longer - the other leaders have already had to be told the UK haven't got anything to talk about at this week's summit. So surely one of a few remaining options

    1. Delusion. "I am going to cross my arms and stamp my feet and say "shan't. Then we'll win"
    2. Desperation. "We are going to stay in the EEA/CU and MPs either have to accept this or I will put it to the people"
    3. Resignation. "I cannot reach an agreement that will honour the deal. I am therefore going to Her Majesty at the conclusion of this statement and resign as PM"
    4. Annihilation. "The EU are beasts. There can be no deal and leaving the EU with No Deal is now the policy of this government"

    Option 1 it was. At which point does she get removed from the pot to allow Boris Johnson to try and move his bowels instead?
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Does PB think the bell has tolled for May?

    That was the clang of a can receiving another desultory kick
  • Does PB think the bell has tolled for May?

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Oh my, Corbyn is enjoying this.
  • Scott_P said:
    Turns out Sam Coates was misinformed.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    Does PB think the bell has tolled for May?

    She's been well and truly tolled.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892

    Bercow asking for "calm" might just be pissing in the wind today.

    His Mr X is normally such a reasonable fellow line, please calm down, is so tired, its pathetic.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:
    If this is true then why haven't they made so much more if it since last December when it was agreed?
    Because it was changed in December to all U.K.

    The EU has gone back on the agreement and May has caved
    The EU never agreed to all UK.
    In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland's businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/joint_report.pdf
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    justin124 said:

    If there’s an election campaign both the LibDems and the Greens will get a lot more attention. That might change the picture somewhat.

    The LibDems should get less broadcasting time allocated to them at the next election on account of their poor performances in both 2015 & 2017. They are also unlikely to qualify for as many PPBs as in recent elections.
    But they will be at the debates, and an appearance at one leaders' debate is potentially worth fifty PPBs. (Indeed, the time has really come to scrap PPBs, which are pointless in the age of social media and multi-channel-TV).
    There is also a case for restricting social media activity but while both parties think they have an advantage there, it won't happen.
    I don't think that's possible, and it's probably not desirable. Social media is the equivalent of the press, not the electronic media in the monopoly era. There was a good argument for having enforced neutrality on the BBC/ITV when they were the only two providers of TV services, and when the BBC dominated the radio; I'm doubtful that there's a good argument any more, other than that changing it could produce a race to the bottom with the likes of Fox News and RT.

    That said, regulation of all forms of media is in need of reform and there is a case for bringing all under the same legally-enforceable code.
    The PEB quotas went hand-in-hand with a bar on paid television advertising and spending limits generally and those wheels have come off. Email, Tweets and Likes are effectively free, and Facebook and Youtube videos are in essence targeted television adverts.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:
    If this is true then why haven't they made so much more if it since last December when it was agreed?
    Because it was changed in December to all U.K.

    The EU has gone back on the agreement and May has caved
    The EU never agreed to all UK.
    In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland's businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/joint_report.pdf
    That’s a unilateral commitment on the part of the UK. What does it have to do with the EU?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773

    Oh my, Corbyn is enjoying this.

    He's still in cake and eat it mode.... which is idiotic.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    The blindfold Brexit they are cooking up is a bridge to nowhere... I lost track of the metaphors after that.
  • Sir Desmond Glazebrook on the front bench for Lab these days...
  • Oh my, Corbyn is enjoying this.

    He's still in cake and eat it mode.... which is idiotic.
    It worked for Leave, why not for Corbyn?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:
    If this is true then why haven't they made so much more if it since last December when it was agreed?
    Because it was changed in December to all U.K.

    The EU has gone back on the agreement and May has caved
    The EU never agreed to all UK.
    In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland's businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/joint_report.pdf
    That’s a unilateral commitment on the part of the UK. What does it have to do with the EU?
    Clearly the UK cannot agree to anything which breaches it.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,301
    Corbyn being pretty clear that there is a deal Labour would support.
    Not sure that will play too well with his MPs and supporters who don't want Brexit at all.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:
    If this is true then why haven't they made so much more if it since last December when it was agreed?
    Because it was changed in December to all U.K.

    The EU has gone back on the agreement and May has caved
    The EU never agreed to all UK.
    In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland's businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/joint_report.pdf
    That’s a unilateral commitment on the part of the UK. What does it have to do with the EU?
    Clearly the UK cannot agree to anything which breaches it.
    The UK cannot commit to something that the UK proposed in order to backstop a previous proposal that the UK proposed but cannot commit to.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773

    Oh my, Corbyn is enjoying this.

    He's still in cake and eat it mode.... which is idiotic.
    It worked for Leave, why not for Corbyn?
    Ones about winning vote, one's about actually doing it. As we've seen you can't.

    So if Corbyn beleives what he said he's both a liar and stupid.

    Which he is....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    DavidL said:

    So we are still going to get a deal then?

    Hey ho.

    Its been interesting watching the Irish govt. Normally they dont say much but today has been full of dire warnings. They sound rattled.

    Normally they dont have much contact with the DUP, their style is to go over their heads and paddywhack the english. Now they are facing the real McCoy and are having to solve a totally avoidable problem of their own making. The DUP will take more delight in screwing the Irish economy if they can.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Theresa May isn't familiar with the phrase "Nothing is agreed till everything is agreed".

    Theresa is an idiot.

    Don't be like Theresa.
  • IDS....

    enough of europe for me...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    DavidL said:

    So we are still going to get a deal then?

    Hey ho.

    Its been interesting watching the Irish govt. Normally they dont say much but today has been full of dire warnings. They sound rattled.

    Normally they dont have much contact with the DUP, their style is to go over their heads and paddywhack the english. Now they are facing the real McCoy and are having to solve a totally avoidable problem of their own making. The DUP will take more delight in screwing the Irish economy if they can.
    Leo is having dinner with Arlene tonight.....should be fun....
  • The House is noisy - they simply cannot behave - we deserve better
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    A boring Scot has just killed the mood.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    Oh my, Corbyn is enjoying this.

    He's still in cake and eat it mode.... which is idiotic.
    It's fine for an opposition - or indeed a third party - until you come up against the reality of government.

    There's a reason that most of the cabinet and pretty much all of the shadow cabinet were in favour of Remain, while Leave were led by people who'd by and large never held high national office.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    The SNP speaker isn’t going to set the Thames on fire.
  • A boring Scot has just killed the mood.

    He is terrible
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469

    The House is noisy - they simply cannot behave - we deserve better

    Agreed. Its embarrassing. Like a class of school children.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    A boring Scot has just killed the mood.

    It seems to be his SNP colleagues gassing the most....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892

    A boring Scot has just killed the mood.

    He is dull. I miss Angus Robertson.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,301
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    Oh for the love of God, no!

    She has fucked up royally, is continuing to fuck it up and needs to go.

    Sorry for the profanity. But it is just embarrassing what our pitiful political class is doing to us.
    Another damp squib. Another fake moment of crisis. Will it ever end?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Arrrrgggh someone stop this mumbling scot
  • DavidL said:

    So we are still going to get a deal then?

    Hey ho.

    Its been interesting watching the Irish govt. Normally they dont say much but today has been full of dire warnings. They sound rattled.

    Normally they dont have much contact with the DUP, their style is to go over their heads and paddywhack the english. Now they are facing the real McCoy and are having to solve a totally avoidable problem of their own making. The DUP will take more delight in screwing the Irish economy if they can.
    Leo is having dinner with Arlene tonight.....should be fun....
    Will Arlene ask for Cheddar Cheese and Pineapple on a stick? 😂

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEsFtiruIok
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    DavidL said:

    So we are still going to get a deal then?

    Hey ho.

    Its been interesting watching the Irish govt. Normally they dont say much but today has been full of dire warnings. They sound rattled.

    Normally they dont have much contact with the DUP, their style is to go over their heads and paddywhack the english. Now they are facing the real McCoy and are having to solve a totally avoidable problem of their own making. The DUP will take more delight in screwing the Irish economy if they can.
    Leo is having dinner with Arlene tonight.....should be fun....
    Menu


    Assiette de merde

    Crow with bitter herbs

    Humble Pie - no sweetners





  • Boris talking and the House is out of control

    I just despair
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Raab, in his body language, is less than wholehearted in his support for the PM.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    The bench around Hilary Benn looks like an alternative front bench. Sigh
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    May still has not let the word "Chequers" pass her lips.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:


    Whether her government survives that announcement remains to be seen. Will Labour ask for a vote of no confidence? They probably should.

    Who might vote against the Gov't if Labour do ask for the vote ?
    Tory MPs who think a no deal outcome is completely against the national interest and should not be the policy of the government. I'm thinking Clarke, Soubry, Grieve, etc. It really won't take many.
    Clarke has fought against socialism his entire life. He’s not going to help usher it in now
  • May still has not let the word "Chequers" pass her lips.

    Of course not. Its long since died and been dropped.
  • May still has not let the word "Chequers" pass her lips.

    I dont think she will use the word again
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Freggles said:

    The bench around Hilary Benn looks like an alternative front bench. Sigh

    First one to ask a decent question too.....
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    The SNP speaker isn’t going to set the Thames on fire.

    An SNP speaker would need subtitles.
  • Amber Rudd talking sense. At least a grown up
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    Freggles said:

    The bench around Hilary Benn looks like an alternative front bench. Sigh

    An intelligent question from him. It kinda stands out.
  • TM put down Vince. He is so hopeless
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Lol @ Dodds behind Strong and
  • TGOHF said:

    The SNP speaker isn’t going to set the Thames on fire.

    An SNP speaker would need subtitles.
    Not for me fortunately
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Government benches noticeably fuller than the opposition's - though of course some of the Scottish MPs will have had further to travel, so may not have been able to get back in time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Cash for questions.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    Really stupid question from the zombie.

    Quelle surprise, as our continental friends might say.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    Sounds like the Government have pulled all business after the ministerial statements - the first (well latest) sign of the parliamentary party fragmenting?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:
    If this is true then why haven't they made so much more if it since last December when it was agreed?
    Because it was changed in December to all U.K.

    The EU has gone back on the agreement and May has caved
    The EU never agreed to all UK.
    They agreed to no barriers between NI and the rest of the UK
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    Another intelligent question by Yvette Cooper. There is talent in the Labour party, its just not on the front bench.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Has Theresa May resigned yet? :D
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Nigel Dodds heard in near silence - clearly worth paying attention to.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    tpfkar said:

    Sounds like the Government have pulled all business after the ministerial statements - the first (well latest) sign of the parliamentary party fragmenting?

    No, just that May is going to be answering questions for hours yet.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Anna Soubry not looking very happy.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Anna Soubry not looking very happy.

    I think that is her default position
This discussion has been closed.