Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
Interesting that much of the coverage of the speech is on May's promise of an end in sight to austerity and more funds for cancer and borrowing to build homes, balanced by attacks on Corbyn's nationalisation and tax and spend plans.
May also made clear that 'searching for a perfect Brexit could mean no Brexit' and in a slap down for the ERG she made clear No Deal would be a bad result for the UK as well as the EU
TM pledge directly to the Scottish Fishing Industry to rid them of the Fishery policy will have been very well received throughout the North of Scotland and her attack on Nicola Sturgeon over fishing was well made
I remember my dear late father in law, who was himself one of Scotlands most successful skippers, berating the EU as we were about to join. The fishermen were livid
G , it was however absolute bollox given it has been the Tories who have constantly sold the Scottish fishing industry down the swannee given it was so far north of London. The leopard will not be changing its spots, we will get the usual false promises they trot out when they need support and the fisherman will be left to rot as usual.
It has all become rather vulgar really. Very difficult to imagine Thatcher doing anything like that - never mind Macmillan, Eden or Churchill. Not that Labour are any better.
No reference to Campbell-Bannerman or Lloyd-George as if there were speaking only yesterday. You disappoint. Eden and Churchill’s days were over 60 years ago. I suspect that your 1950’s equivalent would have been comparing them unfavourably to Gladstone.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
He has a great bass voice, that for a singer would be a rare gift. The speech itself is mediocre, I would say as someone who sort of collects political speeches. He doesn't have anything new to say, nor is there any passion. Comes across as somewhat false, rightly or wrongly. Sincerity can be faked but it needs to be convincing. Bill Clinton was a master at it in his prime.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Why are people so surprised about May's performance today? It's her interviews and interactions with humans that usually turn into car-crashes, but she usually does decent speeches -- she's alright at standing there and sounding fluent and confident when she knows exactly what she's going to say, and when she can control the situation. Last year's speech was very much an exception.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
He has a great bass voice, that for a singer would be a rare gift. The speech itself is mediocre, I would say as someone who sort of collects political speeches. He doesn't have anything new to say, nor is there any passion. Comes across as somewhat false, rightly or wrongly. Sincerity can be faked but it needs to be convincing. Bill Clinton was a master at it in his prime.
If you have a mediocre speech at least get someone to deliver it very well (and having the right voice helps a lot). I tend to put many of Corbyn's speeches in that bracket (I've not seen his conference one yet) - his words are generally not stellar, and he's not outstanding, but he has an authoritative delivery and apretty good voice for it too.
Why are people so surprised about May's performance today? It's her interviews and interactions with humans that usually turn into car-crashes, but she usually does decent speeches -- she's alright at standing there and sounding fluent and confident when she knows exactly what she's going to say, and when she can control the situation. Last year's speech was very much an exception.
It was a masterfully planned deliberate car crash to make today's speech look brilliant. She truly does think a mile ahead.
But in general I'd agree she's not awful in such situations.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Why are people so surprised about May's performance today? It's her interviews and interactions with humans that usually turn into car-crashes, but she usually does decent speeches -- she's alright at standing there and sounding fluent and confident when she knows exactly what she's going to say, and when she can control the situation. Last year's speech was very much an exception.
Because a lot of people who are into politics like reasoning by vague association rather than any rational process. What do I associate with "Theresa May, speech to party"? Well there's her speech last year going wrong, and there's the fact that she's under a lot of pressure from her party. Both of those are negative things, therefore the speech will probably go badly.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
But he isn't good at articulating things to the public. Let him continue doing backroom stuff - that is fine.
Cox is an ideal candidate to go out and sell decisions/policies. May isn't. Hammond isn't. They need the "Minister for the Today Show" who can actually make a presentational difference.
Whilst you can see the amusement on Bradley, Gove, Truss and Mundell's face.. Gavin Williamson has an altogether different expression. Some real devotion in the way he's looking at TM the PM.
TM pledge directly to the Scottish Fishing Industry to rid them of the Fishery policy will have been very well received throughout the North of Scotland and her attack on Nicola Sturgeon over fishing was well made
I remember my dear late father in law, who was himself one of Scotlands most successful skippers, berating the EU as we were about to join. The fishermen were livid
G , it was however absolute bollox given it has been the Tories who have constantly sold the Scottish fishing industry down the swannee given it was so far north of London. The leopard will not be changing its spots, we will get the usual false promises they trot out when they need support and the fisherman will be left to rot as usual.
Well there are a lot of conservative votes in the fishing industry at present. Sturgeon is keeping them in the european fishing policy
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
But he isn't good at articulating things to the public. Let him continue doing backroom stuff - that is fine.
Cox is an ideal candidate to go out and sell decisions/policies. May isn't. Hammond isn't. They need the "Minister for the Today Show" who can actually make a presentational difference.
Yes but they also have to have the vision to formulate good policies in the first place. Boris has that, it's in his bones. Gove too, but who else?
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
But he isn't good at articulating things to the public. Let him continue doing backroom stuff - that is fine.
Cox is an ideal candidate to go out and sell decisions/policies. May isn't. Hammond isn't. They need the "Minister for the Today Show" who can actually make a presentational difference.
Yes but they also have to have the vision to formulate good policies in the first place. Boris has that, it's in his bones. Gove too, but who else?
The whole lot of them. That's why they're there.
(Of course I may quietly differ with the wisdom of the residents of a constituency such as Hayes. Their call.)
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
But he isn't good at articulating things to the public. Let him continue doing backroom stuff - that is fine.
Cox is an ideal candidate to go out and sell decisions/policies. May isn't. Hammond isn't. They need the "Minister for the Today Show" who can actually make a presentational difference.
Yes but they also have to have the vision to formulate good policies in the first place. Boris has that, it's in his bones. Gove too, but who else?
Boris has no such thing. The eye he has is for any project that would give him a good headline, regardless of its practicality, utility, or cost.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
I get emails from him nearly every day
He stopped sending me emails after my membership lapsed (I fell off the electoral roll by accident), I’d have hoped he’d have carried on sending them along with invitations to rejoin.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
That’s impressive. Remind me who to call if ever I’m in need of a QC.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
But he isn't good at articulating things to the public. Let him continue doing backroom stuff - that is fine.
Cox is an ideal candidate to go out and sell decisions/policies. May isn't. Hammond isn't. They need the "Minister for the Today Show" who can actually make a presentational difference.
Yes but they also have to have the vision to formulate good policies in the first place. Boris has that, it's in his bones. Gove too, but who else?
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
But he isn't good at articulating things to the public. Let him continue doing backroom stuff - that is fine.
Cox is an ideal candidate to go out and sell decisions/policies. May isn't. Hammond isn't. They need the "Minister for the Today Show" who can actually make a presentational difference.
Yes but they also have to have the vision to formulate good policies in the first place. Boris has that, it's in his bones. Gove too, but who else?
Gove? Sure. Raab? I think so.
But Boris? What policies has he successfully formulated and implemented? Either in the Mayor's office or in the Foreign Office. Take your time.
Sorry to see an awful lot of rubbish being posted on here in relation to Brexit - Alan Brooke take a bow.
To change the subject - what do people think about ending the cap on local government borrowing to build housing? I've had grave concerns about councils getting involved in the property investment business to plug the hole in their finances. Regional governments have gone bust all over the world. Perhaps if it is well regulated?
They're already investing millions in commercial property, desperate to earn a return on their cash deposits greater than the pennies available through the normal channels. If property turns seriously downwards, local government is already in deep shit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
That’s impressive. Remind me who to call if ever I’m in need of a QC.
Under EU law isn't it now illegal to call anyone other than Cherie Blair?
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
I get emails from him nearly every day
I get details of phone numbers of all Conference attendees from him
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
I get emails from him nearly every day
I get details of phone numbers of all Conference attendees from him
I don't think anyone will miss it, it seems pretty clear.
Don't let great be the enemy of good, as my former boss used to say.
Close enough is good enough, as mine used to say.
Though I do agree with you. I do actually respect that for some a sub par Brexit, in their eyes, is worth fighting against even to the risk of no Brexit at all, but they do need to know that that is one of the risks, and decide any Brexit might actually be worth it after all, as an indicator of overall direction.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
He’s at the bar. The good ones can do that easily. I suspect that he finds dealing with the intellectual failings of sone of his cabinet colleagues a struggle.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
But he isn't good at articulating things to the public. Let him continue doing backroom stuff - that is fine.
Cox is an ideal candidate to go out and sell decisions/policies. May isn't. Hammond isn't. They need the "Minister for the Today Show" who can actually make a presentational difference.
Yes but they also have to have the vision to formulate good policies in the first place. Boris has that, it's in his bones. Gove too, but who else?
Gove? Sure. Raab? I think so.
But Boris? What policies has he successfully formulated and implemented? Either in the Mayor's office or in the Foreign Office. Take your time.
He’s quite good at promoting himself. But even that’s stalling.
I don't think anyone will miss it, it seems pretty clear.
Don't let great be the enemy of good, as my former boss used to say.
Close enough is good enough, as mine used to say.
Though I do agree with you. I do actually respect that for some a sub par Brexit, in their eyes, is worth fighting against even to the risk of no Brexit at all, but they do need to know that that is one of the risks, and decide any Brexit might actually be worth it after all, as an indicator of overall direction.
Whatever Brexit is agreed now, it will be constantly renegotiated and revised over the next half century. There will be times when we move closer to the EU, and times we move further away.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
They should have acted some time ago - I get that everyone knows CHequers as is is dead and has been for a long time, but if it was a red line for the ERG they should not have relied on the EU torpedoing it or counting on May to heed their calls. Get the letters in, and if that fails or it does but May is then replaced by someone of similar intentions, then the ERG can take a long hard look at themselves and decide if, after trying hard, that they must now commit to party unity, or do they decide somethings trump that and Brexit is one of them.
For all May's faults on Brexit, of which delaying a direction was a big one, her opponents sticking to wailing and whinging rather than action is definitely one as well.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
It has all become rather vulgar really. Very difficult to imagine Thatcher doing anything like that - never mind Macmillan, Eden or Churchill. Not that Labour are any better.
No reference to Campbell-Bannerman or Lloyd-George as if there were speaking only yesterday. You disappoint. Eden and Churchill’s days were over 60 years ago. I suspect that your 1950’s equivalent would have been comparing them unfavourably to Gladstone.
I was not being party political at all - and this reliance on trivia as a backdrop is hardly new. I recall cringeing in embarrassment in the early 1990s when Kinnock kept trying to imitate a demented pop star singing 'Meet the challenge - Make the change!'. I do think the overall effect is to undermine respect for political leaders
I don't think anyone will miss it, it seems pretty clear.
Don't let great be the enemy of good, as my former boss used to say.
Close enough is good enough, as mine used to say.
Though I do agree with you. I do actually respect that for some a sub par Brexit, in their eyes, is worth fighting against even to the risk of no Brexit at all, but they do need to know that that is one of the risks, and decide any Brexit might actually be worth it after all, as an indicator of overall direction.
Whatever Brexit is agreed now, it will be constantly renegotiated and revised over the next half century. There will be times when we move closer to the EU, and times we move further away.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine Nigel Farage stamping on a human face - forever"
I don't think anyone will miss it, it seems pretty clear.
Don't let great be the enemy of good, as my former boss used to say.
Close enough is good enough, as mine used to say.
Though I do agree with you. I do actually respect that for some a sub par Brexit, in their eyes, is worth fighting against even to the risk of no Brexit at all, but they do need to know that that is one of the risks, and decide any Brexit might actually be worth it after all, as an indicator of overall direction.
Whatever Brexit is agreed now, it will be constantly renegotiated and revised over the next half century. There will be times when we move closer to the EU, and times we move further away.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine Nigel Farage stamping on a human face - forever"
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
I am not sure you are right. May resigns, it's then Boris or certain defeat. Will the Tories pick Corbyn? All the ERG gang have to do is nurse the country through to March and then bang we're out. Job done.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
I get emails from him nearly every day
A Tory acquaintance once described him as a "useful oik". I don't know whether either word is accurate; it may well more be a comment on my acquaintance (and by extension Tories in general) than on Mr Lewis, for all I know.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
I am not sure you are right. May resigns, it's then Boris or certain defeat. Will the Tories pick Corbyn? All the ERG gang have to do is nurse the country through to March and then bang we're out. Job done.
Is that a scenario where suddenly a referendum gets on the table? Depending on what is in it if the ERG will prevent a deal (I severely doubt there are enough Labour rebels who would counter them) and no Tories want a GE, then a possibility of Labour and the Mayite Tories backing a referendum to prevent the ERG simply blocking any potential deal is possible?
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
I am not sure you are right. May resigns, it's then Boris or certain defeat. Will the Tories pick Corbyn? All the ERG gang have to do is nurse the country through to March and then bang we're out. Job done.
OK. May resigns and BJ ends up PM. We already know what he'll do, which is ask for a six month extension to Article 50. Because it is clearly in the interests of the EU to accept this, they will - especially if (say) they get a full year's "dues" for a six month extension.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
Given the timescale, the only path to a people's vote lies through a postponement of the end March date.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
He’s at the bar. The good ones can do that easily. I suspect that he finds dealing with the intellectual failings of sone of his cabinet colleagues a struggle.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
I am not sure you are right. May resigns, it's then Boris or certain defeat. Will the Tories pick Corbyn? All the ERG gang have to do is nurse the country through to March and then bang we're out. Job done.
OK. May resigns and BJ ends up PM. We already know what he'll do, which is ask for a six month extension to Article 50. Because it is clearly in the interests of the EU to accept this, they will - especially if (say) they get a full year's "dues" for a six month extension.
So do we elect new MEPs in this scenario? Wanting to see the back of Farage and co. is a big plus as far as the rest of the EU Plt is concerned.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
He’s at the bar. The good ones can do that easily. I suspect that he finds dealing with the intellectual failings of sone of his cabinet colleagues a struggle.
Is Cox a contender for the leadership?
He's a Downing College old boy, he read Law & Classics, he'll go far.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
But he isn't good at articulating things to the public. Let him continue doing backroom stuff - that is fine.
Cox is an ideal candidate to go out and sell decisions/policies. May isn't. Hammond isn't. They need the "Minister for the Today Show" who can actually make a presentational difference.
Yes but they also have to have the vision to formulate good policies in the first place. Boris has that, it's in his bones. Gove too, but who else?
I'm struggling to think of one from Johnson but feel feel free to enlighten us.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
Given the timescale, the only path to a people's vote lies through a postponement of the end March date.
Parliament can get business done in 24hrs if it has to.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
He’s at the bar. The good ones can do that easily. I suspect that he finds dealing with the intellectual failings of sone of his cabinet colleagues a struggle.
Is Cox a contender for the leadership?
He's a Downing College old boy, he read Law & Classics, he'll go far.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
She'll let 'No deal' happen. At that point everything else is worse. The UK doesn't and should not choose to change our government based on whether we can or cannot strike a deal with other countries.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
I am not sure you are right. May resigns, it's then Boris or certain defeat. Will the Tories pick Corbyn? All the ERG gang have to do is nurse the country through to March and then bang we're out. Job done.
Is that a scenario where suddenly a referendum gets on the table? Depending on what is in it if the ERG will prevent a deal (I severely doubt there are enough Labour rebels who would counter them) and no Tories want a GE, then a possibility of Labour and the Mayite Tories backing a referendum to prevent the ERG simply blocking any potential deal is possible?
Except there will be no vote on the Deal, Chequers or anything else.
The only vote will be on the terms for the Withdrawal Agreement and the Transition Period, with a customs union in all but name for the UK until a technical solution agreed on the Irish border to get the Transition Period and then FTA talks and further negotiations on Chequers or Canada etc kicked into the Transition.
I think a majority of Tory and Labour MPs will vote to get the Transition even if they still disagree on the final deal, though the ERG and and maybe Corbynites and the DUP will still vote against
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
I am not sure you are right. May resigns, it's then Boris or certain defeat. Will the Tories pick Corbyn? All the ERG gang have to do is nurse the country through to March and then bang we're out. Job done.
OK. May resigns and BJ ends up PM. We already know what he'll do, which is ask for a six month extension to Article 50. Because it is clearly in the interests of the EU to accept this, they will - especially if (say) they get a full year's "dues" for a six month extension.
So do we elect new MEPs in this scenario? Wanting to see the back of Farage and co. is a big plus as far as the rest of the EU Plt is concerned.
The composition of the next /EU parl is an interesting subject. I can see lots of Swedish Dems, Le Pen people, Austrian and Eastern Euro right wingers, Italian populists and the coup de grace AfD in quite large numbers.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
He’s at the bar. The good ones can do that easily. I suspect that he finds dealing with the intellectual failings of sone of his cabinet colleagues a struggle.
Is Cox a contender for the leadership?
He's a Downing College old boy, he read Law & Classics, he'll go far.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
Given the timescale, the only path to a people's vote lies through a postponement of the end March date.
There will be no "people's vote" unless it is in the interests of whoever is in government. It is therefore unlikely.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
I am not sure you are right. May resigns, it's then Boris or certain defeat. Will the Tories pick Corbyn? All the ERG gang have to do is nurse the country through to March and then bang we're out. Job done.
OK. May resigns and BJ ends up PM. We already know what he'll do, which is ask for a six month extension to Article 50. Because it is clearly in the interests of the EU to accept this, they will - especially if (say) they get a full year's "dues" for a six month extension.
All Boris has to do is do the equivalent of taking the ball into the corner flag in extra time. He has to look like he's negotiating really hard and - with regret - sadly fail at the last minute.
OT Why does Netflix bother making films? Operation Finale, released today, had a good trailer and is potentially a good story, but the production is poor and an hour in I am losing interest.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
I am not sure you are right. May resigns, it's then Boris or certain defeat. Will the Tories pick Corbyn? All the ERG gang have to do is nurse the country through to March and then bang we're out. Job done.
OK. May resigns and BJ ends up PM. We already know what he'll do, which is ask for a six month extension to Article 50. Because it is clearly in the interests of the EU to accept this, they will - especially if (say) they get a full year's "dues" for a six month extension.
So do we elect new MEPs in this scenario? Wanting to see the back of Farage and co. is a big plus as far as the rest of the EU Plt is concerned.
The composition of the next /EU parl is an interesting subject. I can see lots of Swedish Dems, Le Pen people, Austrian and Eastern Euro right wingers, Italian populists and the coup de grace AfD in quite large numbers.
The vote system in Germany makes it quite unlikely they'll get more than about 12-13% of the German representation.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
But he isn't good at articulating things to the public. Let him continue doing backroom stuff - that is fine.
Cox is an ideal candidate to go out and sell decisions/policies. May isn't. Hammond isn't. They need the "Minister for the Today Show" who can actually make a presentational difference.
Yes but they also have to have the vision to formulate good policies in the first place. Boris has that, it's in his bones. Gove too, but who else?
Gove? Sure. Raab? I think so.
But Boris? What policies has he successfully formulated and implemented? Either in the Mayor's office or in the Foreign Office. Take your time.
I agree Boris was great solely because he kept out loony left Livingstone. In reality he is a buffoon.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
He’s at the bar. The good ones can do that easily. I suspect that he finds dealing with the intellectual failings of sone of his cabinet colleagues a struggle.
Is Cox a contender for the leadership?
He's a Downing College old boy, he read Law & Classics, he'll go far.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
She'll let 'No deal' happen. At that point everything else is worse. The UK doesn't and should not choose to change our government based on whether we can or cannot strike a deal with other countries.
Respectfully, I disagree.
If she has an agreement, and she cannot get it through the Commons, then she will resign.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
Given the timescale, the only path to a people's vote lies through a postponement of the end March date.
There will be no "people's vote" unless it is in the interests of whoever is in government. It is therefore unlikely.
Nevertheless it would become less 'unlikely' as soon as a postponement of the end March date is agreed.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
She'll let 'No deal' happen. At that point everything else is worse. The UK doesn't and should not choose to change our government based on whether we can or cannot strike a deal with other countries.
Respectfully, I disagree.
If she has an agreement, and she cannot get it through the Commons, then she will resign.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
She'll let 'No deal' happen. At that point everything else is worse. The UK doesn't and should not choose to change our government based on whether we can or cannot strike a deal with other countries.
Respectfully, I disagree.
If she has an agreement, and she cannot get it through the Commons, then she will resign.
Oh sure, if she has an agreement. Totally agree. I was thinking more of 'no agreement'.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
I am not sure you are right. May resigns, it's then Boris or certain defeat. Will the Tories pick Corbyn? All the ERG gang have to do is nurse the country through to March and then bang we're out. Job done.
OK. May resigns and BJ ends up PM. We already know what he'll do, which is ask for a six month extension to Article 50. Because it is clearly in the interests of the EU to accept this, they will - especially if (say) they get a full year's "dues" for a six month extension.
So do we elect new MEPs in this scenario? Wanting to see the back of Farage and co. is a big plus as far as the rest of the EU Plt is concerned.
The composition of the next /EU parl is an interesting subject. I can see lots of Swedish Dems, Le Pen people, Austrian and Eastern Euro right wingers, Italian populists and the coup de grace AfD in quite large numbers.
It would be interesting to compare the vote shares for the "populists" now to four years ago. I would expect that (using the term loosely) that the FN, the PVV and Podemos to have gone backwards, while the AfD, the Swedish Democrats and the Lega Nord would have gone forwards. However, UKIP will likely not be there at all, and they were comfortably the biggest part of the UK delegation.
Just seen the short warm up speech before TM by Geoffrey Cox QC the Attorney General. That was a speech and a half, quite brilliant. A bit like Richard Burton declaiming Prince Hal's Agincourt address.
Unfortunately I don't have the skill to post it here. I saw it on temporary subscription to the Telegraph website courtesy of Waitrose.
I'm not sure about the contents of his speech, but Cox delivered it masterfully. Got the sort of voice that would get you out over the top of a trench, charging into battle.
Yes indeed - perfect for slightly archaic language and over the top metaphors, very stirring. While I think Boris does deliver a fine speech, there was something in Cox's voice and delivery which makes it seem even better for a grandiose presentation.
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
Shift him over to Party Chairman as soon as possible. Far more engaging than Brandon thingy
Brandon thingy is doing a very good job of making the party more professional.
But he isn't good at articulating things to the public. Let him continue doing backroom stuff - that is fine.
Cox is an ideal candidate to go out and sell decisions/policies. May isn't. Hammond isn't. They need the "Minister for the Today Show" who can actually make a presentational difference.
Yes but they also have to have the vision to formulate good policies in the first place. Boris has that, it's in his bones. Gove too, but who else?
Gove? Sure. Raab? I think so.
But Boris? What policies has he successfully formulated and implemented? Either in the Mayor's office or in the Foreign Office. Take your time.
I agree Boris was great solely because he kept out loony left Livingstone. In reality he is a buffoon.
The only time in my life that I have ever expressed any sort of preference for a Tory was in Boris's last runoff against loopy Ken, when he got my second preference.
I don't think anyone will miss it, it seems pretty clear.
Don't let great be the enemy of good, as my former boss used to say.
Close enough is good enough, as mine used to say.
Though I do agree with you. I do actually respect that for some a sub par Brexit, in their eyes, is worth fighting against even to the risk of no Brexit at all, but they do need to know that that is one of the risks, and decide any Brexit might actually be worth it after all, as an indicator of overall direction.
Whatever Brexit is agreed now, it will be constantly renegotiated and revised over the next half century. There will be times when we move closer to the EU, and times we move further away.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine Nigel Farage stamping on a human face - forever"
1984 George Orwell
Surely it will be Tommy Robinson putting the boot in, and Farage will merely be his apologist?
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
He’s at the bar. The good ones can do that easily. I suspect that he finds dealing with the intellectual failings of sone of his cabinet colleagues a struggle.
Is Cox a contender for the leadership?
He's a Downing College old boy, he read Law & Classics, he'll go far.
He was off my radar but that speech was a tour de force
See Macron's credibility in free fall - 7 ministers have left his government since beginning of September
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
He’s at the bar. The good ones can do that easily. I suspect that he finds dealing with the intellectual failings of sone of his cabinet colleagues a struggle.
Is Cox a contender for the leadership?
He's a Downing College old boy, he read Law & Classics, he'll go far.
He was off my radar but that speech was a tour de force
See Macron's credibility in free fall - 7 ministers have left his government since beginning of September
It may be that he'll do just fine and get through things, but there was a time after his election and (impressive) parliamentary win, that media outlets seemed to forget that while he did win comfortably over Le Pen, he did only get 20 something percent in the first round. Not exactly odd for a candidate to get in he 20s in the first round (I believe others have gone even lower!), but it still didn't mean he was enthusiastically backed by 2/3 as in his second round result, as some of the breathless reporting made it seem.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
I am not sure you are right. May resigns, it's then Boris or certain defeat. Will the Tories pick Corbyn? All the ERG gang have to do is nurse the country through to March and then bang we're out. Job done.
OK. May resigns and BJ ends up PM. We already know what he'll do, which is ask for a six month extension to Article 50. Because it is clearly in the interests of the EU to accept this, they will - especially if (say) they get a full year's "dues" for a six month extension.
So do we elect new MEPs in this scenario? Wanting to see the back of Farage and co. is a big plus as far as the rest of the EU Plt is concerned.
The composition of the next /EU parl is an interesting subject. I can see lots of Swedish Dems, Le Pen people, Austrian and Eastern Euro right wingers, Italian populists and the coup de grace AfD in quite large numbers.
It would be interesting to compare the vote shares for the "populists" now to four years ago. I would expect that (using the term loosely) that the FN, the PVV and Podemos to have gone backwards, while the AfD, the Swedish Democrats and the Lega Nord would have gone forwards. However, UKIP will likely not be there at all, and they were comfortably the biggest part of the UK delegation.
Also what I also think needs thinking about is will the voters in those countries do like the UK electorate did and use the EU elections to send a message to the national Government. Are there shy AfD voters that will vote for the AfD or the other parties but would not vote for them in national elections, I think the evidence is that traditionally they do not but surprises can happen.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
He’s at the bar. The good ones can do that easily. I suspect that he finds dealing with the intellectual failings of sone of his cabinet colleagues a struggle.
Is Cox a contender for the leadership?
He's a Downing College old boy, he read Law & Classics, he'll go far.
He was off my radar but that speech was a tour de force
See Macron's credibility in free fall - 7 ministers have left his government since beginning of September
My host in France didn't rate him, mind you he wanted to see the restoration of the Kings of France xD
Also what I also need thinking about is we the voters in those countries do like the UK electorate did and use the EU elections to send a message to the national Government. Are there shy AfD voters that will vote for the AfD or the other parties but would not vote for them in national elections, I think the evidence is that traditionally they do not but surprises can happen.
It's hard to know. I suspect, and I could be wrong, that Brexit isn't much of a topic of debate in most EU countries. People will go out and vote on domestic issues.
So, in Germany, I'd expect the former GDR, where there have been major flair-ups with newly arrived immigrants from the Middle East, to vote heaving for the AfD. But I suspect this will be less of an issue in the West, and you are more likely to see a Green surge there.
So what do you think of my first day as Theresa May's Communications Director?
Was the ABBA intro too much?
Inspiration. It has the media playing it constantly as TM dances on the stage, upstaging Boris big time
She also played a role organising the red devils to deliver Philip Schofield to their 30th birthday party of This Morning. Some have claimed she was stilted but I thought she was ok.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
He’s at the bar. The good ones can do that easily. I suspect that he finds dealing with the intellectual failings of sone of his cabinet colleagues a struggle.
Is Cox a contender for the leadership?
He's a Downing College old boy, he read Law & Classics, he'll go far.
He was off my radar but that speech was a tour de force
See Macron's credibility in free fall - 7 ministers have left his government since beginning of September
It may be that he'll do just fine and get through things, but there was a time after his election and (impressive) parliamentary win, that media outlets seemed to forget that while he did win comfortably over Le Pen, he did only get 20 something percent in the first round. Not exactly odd for a candidate to get in he 20s in the first round (I believe others have gone even lower!), but it still didn't mean he was enthusiastically backed by 2/3 as in his second round result, as some of the breathless reporting made it seem.
In fairness his new party did win a huge majority in the Parliament shortly after.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
Given the timescale, the only path to a people's vote lies through a postponement of the end March date.
There will be no "people's vote" unless it is in the interests of whoever is in government. It is therefore unlikely.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
She'll let 'No deal' happen. At that point everything else is worse. The UK doesn't and should not choose to change our government based on whether we can or cannot strike a deal with other countries.
Respectfully, I disagree.
If she has an agreement, and she cannot get it through the Commons, then she will resign.
Is it in May’s interests to put herself in a position where she may be forced to resign?
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Mr Cox was only asked by the Prime Minister to deliver her warm-up speech ahead of her speech to the party faithful on Tuesday.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
He’s at the bar. The good ones can do that easily. I suspect that he finds dealing with the intellectual failings of sone of his cabinet colleagues a struggle.
Is Cox a contender for the leadership?
He's a Downing College old boy, he read Law & Classics, he'll go far.
He was off my radar but that speech was a tour de force
See Macron's credibility in free fall - 7 ministers have left his government since beginning of September
My host in France didn't rate him, mind you he wanted to see the restoration of the Kings of France xD
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
She'll let 'No deal' happen. At that point everything else is worse. The UK doesn't and should not choose to change our government based on whether we can or cannot strike a deal with other countries.
Respectfully, I disagree.
If she has an agreement, and she cannot get it through the Commons, then she will resign.
I agree. It will be a confidence vote in deed, if not in name.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Well, when Mrs May survives the No Confidence motion, then what?
Abandon the whip?
Just keep voting down whatever the Commons does. Default is no deal, not Remain or Chequers.
Yes, but Mrs May will resign rather than allow No Deal to happen that way. If no PM can get a Brexit bill through Parliament, then there will be new elections in the UK. (And under that scenario, whatever Mr V says now, there would be an extension of Article 50.)
I am not sure you are right. May resigns, it's then Boris or certain defeat. Will the Tories pick Corbyn? All the ERG gang have to do is nurse the country through to March and then bang we're out. Job done.
OK. May resigns and BJ ends up PM. We already know what he'll do, which is ask for a six month extension to Article 50. Because it is clearly in the interests of the EU to accept this, they will - especially if (say) they get a full year's "dues" for a six month extension.
My view is that was ill-advised by Boris.
If it ever does get to a contest it puts a question of unpredictability around his Brexit behaviour, and few Brexiteers want to stay in the EU any longer than they have to.
Comments
MikeS
May also made clear that 'searching for a perfect Brexit could mean no Brexit' and in a slap down for the ERG she made clear No Deal would be a bad result for the UK as well as the EU
You could just try youtube.
(Perhaps Labour are stealing Tory ideas?)
Probably a good idea to wheel him out to warm up a crowd in future, I bet.
But in general I'd agree she's not awful in such situations.
Overnight he memorised a 1,000 word speech he had jotted down on an A4 piece of paper and delighted party members with a relentlessly positive vision of the life after Brexit.
Cox is an ideal candidate to go out and sell decisions/policies. May isn't. Hammond isn't. They need the "Minister for the Today Show" who can actually make a presentational difference.
(Of course I may quietly differ with the wisdom of the residents of a constituency such as Hayes. Their call.)
https://twitter.com/oflynnmep/status/1047529374927532032?s=21
But Boris? What policies has he successfully formulated and implemented? Either in the Mayor's office or in the Foreign Office. Take your time.
Though I do agree with you. I do actually respect that for some a sub par Brexit, in their eyes, is worth fighting against even to the risk of no Brexit at all, but they do need to know that that is one of the risks, and decide any Brexit might actually be worth it after all, as an indicator of overall direction.
Theresa's made it quite clear what her end game is which is to abandon Brexit altogether.
Her betrayal is complete... What have the ERG got to lose?
Abandon the whip?
For all May's faults on Brexit, of which delaying a direction was a big one, her opponents sticking to wailing and whinging rather than action is definitely one as well.
Unfortunately for Brexit enthusiasts the word “velleity” exists to describe Johnson, Davis et al. Neither great nor good.
1984 George Orwell
Was the ABBA intro too much?
Perhaps next year.
The only vote will be on the terms for the Withdrawal Agreement and the Transition Period, with a customs union in all but name for the UK until a technical solution agreed on the Irish border to get the Transition Period and then FTA talks and further negotiations on Chequers or Canada etc kicked into the Transition.
I think a majority of Tory and Labour MPs will vote to get the Transition even if they still disagree on the final deal, though the ERG and and maybe Corbynites and the DUP will still vote against
I agree Boris was great solely because he kept out loony left Livingstone. In reality he is a buffoon.
If she has an agreement, and she cannot get it through the Commons, then she will resign.
See Macron's credibility in free fall - 7 ministers have left his government since beginning of September
So, in Germany, I'd expect the former GDR, where there have been major flair-ups with newly arrived immigrants from the Middle East, to vote heaving for the AfD. But I suspect this will be less of an issue in the West, and you are more likely to see a Green surge there.
If it ever does get to a contest it puts a question of unpredictability around his Brexit behaviour, and few Brexiteers want to stay in the EU any longer than they have to.