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Comments
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This is a massively high risk gambit.archer101au said:
Because the UK will not impose a hard border - they will simply say that they are content to recognise EU compliant goods. And the ROI will not unilaterally impose a border because they will look ridiculous. So the customs services of UK and ROI will simply have no choice but to co-operate to put in place exactly the soft border systems that the ERG have suggested.Gardenwalker said:
As I said, saying it is not an issue doesn’t make it go away.archer101au said:
It is not an issue and not the UK’s job to resolve it.Gardenwalker said:
Why would the EU accept, and even extend A50? Brexiters would need to definitively resolve the Irish border issue which they have completely failed to do so far.archer101au said:
There would probably not time for anything to happen if May’s deal is voted down. May resigns. A Leaver would take over. They would offer the EU a choice between CETA with no backstop or no deal. Which is what May should be doing now.Gardenwalker said:
How would it, given DUP would presumably vote against as would soft Tories (and all Opposition parties).
We would then have a constitutional and financial crisis, hurtling toward No Deal with no obvious solution in sight.
No - a Mayite fudge that resembles EEA+CU is the ONLY deal that can be agreed with EU and approved by Parliament.
If the EU accept, there will be a short delay in A50 to get it done. If they refuse, there is no deal. In neither scenario would the DUP be upset - Leavers have no intention of accepting the backstop.
If May got Chequers agreed by the EU basically unamended, she would still probably lose in the HoC but she might have a chance. But May’s sellout fudge will be voted down. Easily. The moment she concedes on the customs partnership and agrees the customs union it is all over. No trade policy is a red line for plenty of Tories.
Simply saying the Irish border is not an issue does not mean it is no longer an issue.
If the EU insist on the NI backstop, there will be no deal. If they want to be sensible, it can be solved. But after no deal there is going to be a soft border whether they like it or not and at that time their leverage is gone. That is why no deal is probably the best tactical outcome for the UK.
Why would a No Deal (the Hardest of Brexits) mean a soft border?
That is why the NI border issue has always been a bluff. Time to call.
More likely to me, such a course of action would likely create a civil emergency. It would lead to No Deal and a state of economic chaos.0 -
Bloody hell, they've altered it. All references to Salisbury Cathedral have been removed!Nigelb said:
We can be fairly sure it’s not a Russian journalist.ydoethur said:Miaow.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/45189675?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&&2018-09-30T12:32:29+00:00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:5e49100e-1861-412f-96e8-7b6a103f34f7&pinned_post_asset_id=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&pinned_post_type=share
If that journalist never returns, we will know Putin has no sense of humour...
Somebody has weak nerves!0 -
Of course, the people with tuition fees in 2017 (the very ones who were enthused) will be the ones with tuition fee debt in 2022.justin124 said:
Reading both sets of comments , it did not strike me that a firm commitment to writing off all debt had been made. 'Ambition' is far from that - and Corbyn did specifically refer to extending repayment periods etc.
I would,however, be surprised if the commitment to abolish Tuition Fees were to be abandoned.
They will have passed from the group of people who will benefit from Corbyn to the group of people left behind. We will hear from them in 2022.
The golden rule in politics is you always hear more from the losers than the winners.
If you make tuition fees free, and then fail to write off the debt of earlier generations who were unlucky when they went to University, then you have created many more losers than winners. The losers will be only to ready to gripe publicly on air and on TV.
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Aw. I missed that. What did it say?ydoethur said:Miaow.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/45189675?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&&2018-09-30T12:32:29+00:00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:5e49100e-1861-412f-96e8-7b6a103f34f7&pinned_post_asset_id=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&pinned_post_type=share
If that journalist never returns, we will know Putin has no sense of humour...0 -
‘Choose May, choose life’ doesn’t quite have the ring of credibility.Foxy said:
I suspect that it is a combination of nerves and ACE inhibitors. a nagging cough is a fairly frequent side effect, and they are the preferred anti hypertensives for diabetics.rottenborough said:
Historians will have fun debating whether May was an unlucky PM or not.NickPalmer said:
At a human level I must say I do feel sorry for her, and some respect. Most PMs give the impression that they're enjoying themselves a bit - Cameron was serene, Brown saw himself as sturdy saviour, Blair loved trying to change opinion, Douglas Home had nothing to prove. But May seems to be just morosely struggling on out of a sense of duty. There are worse things in politics.rottenborough said:Get the popcorn ready:
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1046300224057167872
She doesn't seem to have much as far as I can see.
But I agree, on a human level, one feels sympathy. Who hasn't had a big event or presentation and felt that horrible tickle in the back of the throat two days before and gone 'Oh no.'?
Morphines are very good cough suppressants, and would most likely work, perhaps at risk of aTrainspotting type speech.
https://youtu.be/RCxgqHqakXc
And the reasons?, there are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you have Brexit?
I would suggest Vocalzones as the best alternative.
And a breathing coach.
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One of my favourite examples was in my confirmation class discussing the miracle of the 5 loaves and the 2 fishes. The miracle was that everyone had brought their own food but when the example of sharing was given everyone shared and there was then enough for everyone with plenty left over.dixiedean said:
Interesting. But turns on ones definition of miracle. Are they saying divine intervention to overturn the laws of physics?CarlottaVance said:Corbyn explained:
https://twitter.com/mrdavidstroud/status/1046294375934947328?s=21
Or the more commonly used definition of a highly unlikely but just about plausible event? Such as it is a miracle Leicester won the Premier League, or it is a miracle that Corbyn became leader.
In these days where most grow up without a religious education, I would suspect the latter.0 -
I noticed that.ydoethur said:
Bloody hell, they've altered it. All references to Salisbury Cathedral have been removed!Nigelb said:
We can be fairly sure it’s not a Russian journalist.ydoethur said:Miaow.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/45189675?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&&2018-09-30T12:32:29+00:00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:5e49100e-1861-412f-96e8-7b6a103f34f7&pinned_post_asset_id=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&pinned_post_type=share
If that journalist never returns, we will know Putin has no sense of humour...
Somebody has weak nerves!
Maybe the BBC wants to be allowed back next year ?
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Yes, and each election makes that stitched up cohort bigger.YBarddCwsc said:
Of course, the people with tuition fees in 2017 (the very ones who were enthused) will be the ones with tuition fee debt in 2022.justin124 said:
Reading both sets of comments , it did not strike me that a firm commitment to writing off all debt had been made. 'Ambition' is far from that - and Corbyn did specifically refer to extending repayment periods etc.
I would,however, be surprised if the commitment to abolish Tuition Fees were to be abandoned.
They will have passed from the group of people who will benefit from Corbyn to the group of people left behind. We will hear from them in 2022.
The golden rule in politics is you always hear more from the losers than the winners.
If you make tuition fees free, and then fail to write off the debt of earlier generations who were uniquely unlucky when they went to University, then you have created many more losers than winners. The losers will be only to ready to gripe publicly on air and on TV.
Fox jr is in that cohort, and doesn't want others in it, but some sort of writedown is needed. It is going to be bigger and harder the longer it is left.
Write it all off for domestic students, and bring down the higher rate tax threshold.0 -
Archer lives in Australia. Why would he care about that?Gardenwalker said:
This is a massively high risk gambit.archer101au said:
Because the UK will not impose a hard border - they will simply say that they are content to recognise EU compliant goods. And the ROI will not unilaterally impose a border because they will look ridiculous. So the customs services of UK and ROI will simply have no choice but to co-operate to put in place exactly the soft border systems that the ERG have suggested.Gardenwalker said:
As I said, saying it is not an issue doesn’t make it go away.archer101au said:
It is not an issue and not the UK’s job to resolve it.Gardenwalker said:
Why would the EU accept, and even extend A50? Brexiters would need to definitively resolve the Irish border issue which they have completely failed to do so far.archer101au said:
There would probably not time for anything to happen if May’s deal is voted down. May resigns. A Leaver would take over. They would offer the EU a choice between CETA with no backstop or no deal. Which is what May should be doing now.Gardenwalker said:
How would it, given DUP would presumably vote against as would soft Tories (and all Opposition parties).
We would then have a constitutional and financial crisis, hurtling toward No Deal with no obvious solution in sight.
No - a Mayite fudge that resembles EEA+CU is the ONLY deal that can be agreed with EU and approved by Parliament.
If the EU accept, there will be a short delay in A50 to get it done. If they refuse, there is no deal. In neither scenario would the DUP be upset - Leavers have no intention of accepting the backstop.
If May got Chequers agreed by the EU basically unamended, she would still probably lose in the HoC but she might have a chance. But May’s sellout fudge will be voted down. Easily. The moment she concedes on the customs partnership and agrees the customs union it is all over. No trade policy is a red line for plenty of Tories.
Simply saying the Irish border is not an issue does not mean it is no longer an issue.
If the EU insist on the NI backstop, there will be no deal. If they want to be sensible, it can be solved. But after no deal there is going to be a soft border whether they like it or not and at that time their leverage is gone. That is why no deal is probably the best tactical outcome for the UK.
Why would a No Deal (the Hardest of Brexits) mean a soft border?
That is why the NI border issue has always been a bluff. Time to call.
More likely to me, such a course of action would likely create a civil emergency. It would lead to No Deal and a state of economic chaos.
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I’m told that finding the button can sometimes be difficult for solo organists...ydoethur said:
I never perform contortions on the organ. Lots of nice combination buttons for me to use. That means I always come in hole...Nigelb said:
Given your reports of the contortions you engage in with your organ.....ydoethur said:
Not a fan of them myself.Nigelb said:
There are some of us who whinge about team orders, irrespective of where they originate.ydoethur said:It's quite entertaing to watch all the Mercedes fans who whinged endlessly about Ferrari team orders tying themselves in knots about how Mercedes are quite right to use them themselves to let a slower car in front of a faster car...
That said, I do understand it’s a business as much as a sport.
I just think the contortions are amusing.
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It's not an issue. If we refuse to deal with it and Ireland refuses to have a border then what happens next?Gardenwalker said:
As I said, saying it is not an issue doesn’t make it go away.archer101au said:
It is not an issue and not the UK’s job to resolve it.Gardenwalker said:
Why would the EU accept, and even extend A50? Brexiters would need to definitively resolve the Irish border issue which they have completely failed to do so far.archer101au said:
There would probably not time for anything to happen if May’s deal is voted down. May resigns. A Leaver would take over. They would offer the EU a choice between CETA with no backstop or no deal. Which is what May should be doing now.Gardenwalker said:
IF May fudges, as we both expect, and she is voted down by an unholy alliance of the ERG and Labour, what happens next?
She would be presumably be replaced by a Harder Brexiter - Davis, Johnson, or perhaps Javid, and a swing to CETA+ - however that still needs to get through Parliament.
How would it, given DUP would presumably vote against as would soft Tories (and all Opposition parties).
We would then have a constitutional and financial crisis, hurtling toward No Deal with no obvious solution in sight.
No - a Mayite fudge that resembles EEA+CU is the ONLY deal that can be agreed with EU and approved by Parliament.
If the EU accept, there will be a short delay in A50 to get it done. If they refuse, there is no deal. In neither scenario would the DUP be upset - Leavers have no intention of accepting the backstop.
If May got Chequers agreed by the EU basically unamended, she would still probably lose in the HoC but she might have a chance. But May’s sellout fudge will be voted down. Easily. The moment she concedes on the customs partnership and agrees the customs union it is all over. No trade policy is a red line for plenty of Tories.
Simply saying the Irish border is not an issue does not mean it is no longer an issue.
If the EU insist on the NI backstop, there will be no deal. If they want to be sensible, it can be solved. But after no deal there is going to be a soft border whether they like it or not and at that time their leverage is gone. That is why no deal is probably the best tactical outcome for the UK.
Why would a No Deal (the Hardest of Brexits) mean a soft border?0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
F1: rather more interesting race than last year. Although the Red Bull idea didn't come off, my thinking was proved right (namely they'd slice their way through the field so 67 for them to top score was too long).0 -
It said that Hamilton's race was 'as easy as a Sunday afternoon walk in Salisbury Cathedral.'JosiasJessop said:
Aw. I missed that. What did it say?ydoethur said:Miaow.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/45189675?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&&2018-09-30T12:32:29+00:00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:5e49100e-1861-412f-96e8-7b6a103f34f7&pinned_post_asset_id=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&pinned_post_type=share
If that journalist never returns, we will know Putin has no sense of humour...0 -
You’d think the Republicans might hesitate to dilute the Endangered Species Act, looking at their polling...
https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/409039-republicans-accelerate-efforts-to-overhaul-endangered-species-act0 -
I have had no complaints while playing duets though.Nigelb said:
I’m told that finding the button can sometimes be difficult for solo organists...ydoethur said:
I never perform contortions on the organ. Lots of nice combination buttons for me to use. That means I always come in hole...Nigelb said:
Given your reports of the contortions you engage in with your organ.....ydoethur said:
Not a fan of them myself.Nigelb said:
There are some of us who whinge about team orders, irrespective of where they originate.ydoethur said:It's quite entertaing to watch all the Mercedes fans who whinged endlessly about Ferrari team orders tying themselves in knots about how Mercedes are quite right to use them themselves to let a slower car in front of a faster car...
That said, I do understand it’s a business as much as a sport.
I just think the contortions are amusing.0 -
Which is why Corbyn will just pretend he will write off the debt again. Worked last time and there would be even more winners from that next time.YBarddCwsc said:
Of course, the people with tuition fees in 2017 (the very ones who were enthused) will be the ones with tuition fee debt in 2022.justin124 said:
Reading both sets of comments , it did not strike me that a firm commitment to writing off all debt had been made. 'Ambition' is far from that - and Corbyn did specifically refer to extending repayment periods etc.
I would,however, be surprised if the commitment to abolish Tuition Fees were to be abandoned.
They will have passed from the group of people who will benefit from Corbyn to the group of people left behind. We will hear from them in 2022.
The golden rule in politics is you always hear more from the losers than the winners.
If you make tuition fees free, and then fail to write off the debt of earlier generations who were unlucky when they went to University, then you have created many more losers than winners. The losers will be only to ready to gripe publicly on air and on TV.
Numbers won't add up but since when have they cared about that?0 -
Ah, thanks. I thought it might be something about requiring a taste-tester before drinking the champagne.ydoethur said:
It said that Hamilton's race was 'as easy as a Sunday afternoon walk in Salisbury Cathedral.'JosiasJessop said:
Aw. I missed that. What did it say?ydoethur said:Miaow.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/45189675?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&&2018-09-30T12:32:29+00:00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:5e49100e-1861-412f-96e8-7b6a103f34f7&pinned_post_asset_id=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&pinned_post_type=share
If that journalist never returns, we will know Putin has no sense of humour...
0 -
Well, as it says in the classics, who knows what they Putin?JosiasJessop said:
Ah, thanks. I thought it might be something about requiring a taste-tester before drinking the champagne.ydoethur said:
It said that Hamilton's race was 'as easy as a Sunday afternoon walk in Salisbury Cathedral.'JosiasJessop said:
Aw. I missed that. What did it say?ydoethur said:Miaow.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/45189675?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&&2018-09-30T12:32:29+00:00&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:5e49100e-1861-412f-96e8-7b6a103f34f7&pinned_post_asset_id=5bb0c24a4332820660fff46c&pinned_post_type=share
If that journalist never returns, we will know Putin has no sense of humour...0 -
Though like most miracles and healings in the Gospels is much more meaningful when interpreted in a metaphorical rather than literal way.DavidL said:
One of my favourite examples was in my confirmation class discussing the miracle of the 5 loaves and the 2 fishes. The miracle was that everyone had brought their own food but when the example of sharing was given everyone shared and there was then enough for everyone with plenty left over.dixiedean said:
Interesting. But turns on ones definition of miracle. Are they saying divine intervention to overturn the laws of physics?CarlottaVance said:Corbyn explained:
https://twitter.com/mrdavidstroud/status/1046294375934947328?s=21
Or the more commonly used definition of a highly unlikely but just about plausible event? Such as it is a miracle Leicester won the Premier League, or it is a miracle that Corbyn became leader.
In these days where most grow up without a religious education, I would suspect the latter.
Which is the better lesson?
1) When Jesus is giving a sermon, don't bother packing lunch
or 2) When following Jesus, there will be sustenance in abundance, even for those who possess nothing..0 -
I understand that point - though suspect that the losers will still be more inclined to blame those who imposed the debt on them in the first place - ie the Tories and Libdems.YBarddCwsc said:
Of course, the people with tuition fees in 2017 (the very ones who were enthused) will be the ones with tuition fee debt in 2022.justin124 said:
Reading both sets of comments , it did not strike me that a firm commitment to writing off all debt had been made. 'Ambition' is far from that - and Corbyn did specifically refer to extending repayment periods etc.
I would,however, be surprised if the commitment to abolish Tuition Fees were to be abandoned.
They will have passed from the group of people who will benefit from Corbyn to the group of people left behind. We will hear from them in 2022.
The golden rule in politics is you always hear more from the losers than the winners.
If you make tuition fees free, and then fail to write off the debt of earlier generations who were unlucky when they went to University, then you have created many more losers than winners. The losers will be only to ready to gripe publicly on air and on TV.
Similar resentment is likely from those parents who were in a position to pay the fees upfront for their sons and daughters. In such cases the debt will no longer exist - having been paid off.0 -
My other half has Bodyguard on the iplayer. Is this an accurate portrayal of T May's time as Home Sec :O !?0
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I
OK, I have to admit defeat, as I have work to do, unlike all these idle teachers....ydoethur said:
I have had no complaints while playing duets though.Nigelb said:
I’m told that finding the button can sometimes be difficult for solo organists...ydoethur said:
I never perform contortions on the organ. Lots of nice combination buttons for me to use. That means I always come in hole...Nigelb said:
Given your reports of the contortions you engage in with your organ.....ydoethur said:
Not a fan of them myself.Nigelb said:
There are some of us who whinge about team orders, irrespective of where they originate.ydoethur said:It's quite entertaing to watch all the Mercedes fans who whinged endlessly about Ferrari team orders tying themselves in knots about how Mercedes are quite right to use them themselves to let a slower car in front of a faster car...
That said, I do understand it’s a business as much as a sport.
I just think the contortions are amusing.
😊
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I agree no-one left in Labour can do the simplest sums.Philip_Thompson said:
Which is why Corbyn will just pretend he will write off the debt again. Worked last time and there would be even more winners from that next time.YBarddCwsc said:
Of course, the people with tuition fees in 2017 (the very ones who were enthused) will be the ones with tuition fee debt in 2022.justin124 said:
Reading both sets of comments , it did not strike me that a firm commitment to writing off all debt had been made. 'Ambition' is far from that - and Corbyn did specifically refer to extending repayment periods etc.
I would,however, be surprised if the commitment to abolish Tuition Fees were to be abandoned.
They will have passed from the group of people who will benefit from Corbyn to the group of people left behind. We will hear from them in 2022.
The golden rule in politics is you always hear more from the losers than the winners.
If you make tuition fees free, and then fail to write off the debt of earlier generations who were unlucky when they went to University, then you have created many more losers than winners. The losers will be only to ready to gripe publicly on air and on TV.
Numbers won't add up but since when have they cared about that?
As regard the policy, I'd be in favour of removing tuition fees, writing off the debt and modestly reducing the number of people going to University.
As always when I agree with Labour, I just wonder if they are seriously interesting in implementing the policy, as believable costings never seem to get done.
If you were keen to do it, you would have worked out how much you are going to have put up the higher rate of tax.0 -
Pathetic to remove that Salisbury message.0
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I think Dr Fox is right.justin124 said:
I understand that point - though suspect that the losers will still be more inclined to blame those who imposed the debt on them in the first place - ie the Tories and Libdems.YBarddCwsc said:
Of course, the people with tuition fees in 2017 (the very ones who were enthused) will be the ones with tuition fee debt in 2022.justin124 said:
Reading both sets of comments , it did not strike me that a firm commitment to writing off all debt had been made. 'Ambition' is far from that - and Corbyn did specifically refer to extending repayment periods etc.
I would,however, be surprised if the commitment to abolish Tuition Fees were to be abandoned.
They will have passed from the group of people who will benefit from Corbyn to the group of people left behind. We will hear from them in 2022.
The golden rule in politics is you always hear more from the losers than the winners.
If you make tuition fees free, and then fail to write off the debt of earlier generations who were unlucky when they went to University, then you have created many more losers than winners. The losers will be only to ready to gripe publicly on air and on TV.
Similar resentment is likely from those parents who were in a position to pay the fees upfront for their sons and daughters. In such cases the debt will no longer exist - having been paid off.
It is completely unsustainable to create a stitched-up generation (& it will be electorally very damaging as well).
I think making tuition fees free goes hand-in-hand with writing off the existing debt.0 -
Therein lies the problem - it already wasn't acceptable to, well, pretty much everybody, and it is hard to see how tilting it yet further to the EU will make more people happy.GIN1138 said:Anyone know what Theresa's "compromise" with the EU is going to entail?
I thought Chequers WAS the compromise?0 -
I don't disagree at all. What about those parents who actually paid the fees rather than see their children incur the debts?YBarddCwsc said:
I think Dr Fox is right.justin124 said:
I understand that point - though suspect that the losers will still be more inclined to blame those who imposed the debt on them in the first place - ie the Tories and Libdems.YBarddCwsc said:
Of course, the people with tuition fees in 2017 (the very ones who were enthused) will be the ones with tuition fee debt in 2022.justin124 said:
Reading both sets of comments , it did not strike me that a firm commitment to writing off all debt had been made. 'Ambition' is far from that - and Corbyn did specifically refer to extending repayment periods etc.
I would,however, be surprised if the commitment to abolish Tuition Fees were to be abandoned.
They will have passed from the group of people who will benefit from Corbyn to the group of people left behind. We will hear from them in 2022.
The golden rule in politics is you always hear more from the losers than the winners.
If you make tuition fees free, and then fail to write off the debt of earlier generations who were unlucky when they went to University, then you have created many more losers than winners. The losers will be only to ready to gripe publicly on air and on TV.
Similar resentment is likely from those parents who were in a position to pay the fees upfront for their sons and daughters. In such cases the debt will no longer exist - having been paid off.
It is completely unsustainable to create a stitched-up generation (& it will be electorally very damaging as well).
I think making tuition fees free goes hand-in-hand with writing off the existing debt.0 -
Of course he's right. Everybody except uni vice chancellors, who are invariably dicks, Lord Browne, who admits he is a perjurer, and the Student Loans Company, who are so thick they do not know the order of the months of the year - I really wish I was making that up - knows the system is a shambles.YBarddCwsc said:
I think Dr Fox is right.justin124 said:
I understand that point - though suspect that the losers will still be more inclined to blame those who imposed the debt on them in the first place - ie the Tories and Libdems.YBarddCwsc said:
Of course, the people with tuition fees in 2017 (the very ones who were enthused) will be the ones with tuition fee debt in 2022.justin124 said:
Reading both sets of comments , it did not strike me that a firm commitment to writing off all debt had been made. 'Ambition' is far from that - and Corbyn did specifically refer to extending repayment periods etc.
I would,however, be surprised if the commitment to abolish Tuition Fees were to be abandoned.
They will have passed from the group of people who will benefit from Corbyn to the group of people left behind. We will hear from them in 2022.
The golden rule in politics is you always hear more from the losers than the winners.
If you make tuition fees free, and then fail to write off the debt of earlier generations who were unlucky when they went to University, then you have created many more losers than winners. The losers will be only to ready to gripe publicly on air and on TV.
Similar resentment is likely from those parents who were in a position to pay the fees upfront for their sons and daughters. In such cases the debt will no longer exist - having been paid off.
It is completely unsustainable to create a stitched-up generation (& it will be electorally very damaging as well).
I think making tuition fees free goes hand-in-hand with writing off the existing debt.
The snag is nobody has yet come up with a meaningful idea to replace it.0 -
Nobody is going to give a fuck about the NI border in the event of no deal as we'll have plenty of other problems to worry about.Philip_Thompson said:
It's not an issue. If we refuse to deal with it and Ireland refuses to have a border then what happens next?Gardenwalker said:
As I said, saying it is not an issue doesn’t make it go away.archer101au said:
It is not an issue and not the UK’s job to resolve it.Gardenwalker said:
Why would the EU accept, and even extend A50? Brexiters would need to definitively resolve the Irish border issue which they have completely failed to do so far.archer101au said:
There would probably not time for anything to happen if May’s deal is voted down. May resigns. A Leaver would take over. They would offer the EU a choice between CETA with no backstop or no deal. Which is what May should be doing now.Gardenwalker said:
IF May fudges, as we both expect, and she is voted down by an unholy alliance of the ERG and Labour, what happens next?
She would be presumably be replaced by a Harder Brexiter - Davis, Johnson, or perhaps Javid, and a swing to CETA+ - however that still needs to get through Parliament.
How would it, given DUP would presumably vote against as would soft Tories (and all Opposition parties).
We would then have a constitutional and financial crisis, hurtling toward No Deal with no obvious solution in sight.
No - a Mayite fudge that resembles EEA+CU is the ONLY deal that can be agreed with EU and approved by Parliament.
If the EU accept, there will be a short delay in A50 to get it done. If they refuse, there is no deal. In neither scenario would the DUP be upset - Leavers have no intention of accepting the backstop.
If May got Chequers agreed by the EU basically unamended, she would still probably lose in the HoC but she might have a chance. But May’s sellout fudge will be voted down. Easily. The moment she concedes on the customs partnership and agrees the customs union it is all over. No trade policy is a red line for plenty of Tories.
Simply saying the Irish border is not an issue does not mean it is no longer an issue.
If the EU insist on the NI backstop, there will be no deal. If they want to be sensible, it can be solved. But after no deal there is going to be a soft border whether they like it or not and at that time their leverage is gone. That is why no deal is probably the best tactical outcome for the UK.
Why would a No Deal (the Hardest of Brexits) mean a soft border?
The maritime borders between the 6 and 26 counties are also ill defined and subject to competing claims. So that whole bucket of shit could get kicked over too.0 -
I suspect that there will be little sympathy for such people from a Corbyn Gov't.justin124 said:
I don't disagree at all. What about those parents who actually paid the fees rather than see their children incur the debts?YBarddCwsc said:
I think Dr Fox is right.justin124 said:
I understand that point - though suspect that the losers will still be more inclined to blame those who imposed the debt on them in the first place - ie the Tories and Libdems.YBarddCwsc said:
Of course, the people with tuition fees in 2017 (the very ones who were enthused) will be the ones with tuition fee debt in 2022.justin124 said:
Reading both sets of comments , it did not strike me that a firm commitment to writing off all debt had been made. 'Ambition' is far from that - and Corbyn did specifically refer to extending repayment periods etc.
I would,however, be surprised if the commitment to abolish Tuition Fees were to be abandoned.
They will have passed from the group of people who will benefit from Corbyn to the group of people left behind. We will hear from them in 2022.
The golden rule in politics is you always hear more from the losers than the winners.
If you make tuition fees free, and then fail to write off the debt of earlier generations who were unlucky when they went to University, then you have created many more losers than winners. The losers will be only to ready to gripe publicly on air and on TV.
Similar resentment is likely from those parents who were in a position to pay the fees upfront for their sons and daughters. In such cases the debt will no longer exist - having been paid off.
It is completely unsustainable to create a stitched-up generation (& it will be electorally very damaging as well).
I think making tuition fees free goes hand-in-hand with writing off the existing debt.
Like the families of dementia patients, who have to pay for their care, it is perfectly fine for electoral purposes to create a highly disadvantaged subset (provided the subset is small).
In fact, before May's blundering, I bet hardly anyone knew that New Labour were the architects of that vicious and unfair policy. Even after May's blundering, most people still think it is something the Tories were prevented from introducing in 2017.
So, you can be as unfair as you like to parents who were wealthy enough to pay off their son's and daughter's tuition fees.0 -
Except of course every other country in the EU, who somehow manage to have either no fees or modest fees.ydoethur said:
Of course he's right. Everybody except uni vice chancellors, who are invariably dicks, Lord Browne, who admits he is a perjurer, and the Student Loans Company, who are so thick they do not know the order of the months of the year - I really wish I was making that up - knows the system is a shambles.YBarddCwsc said:
I think Dr Fox is right.justin124 said:
I understand that point - though suspect that the losers will still be more inclined to blame those who imposed the debt on them in the first place - ie the Tories and Libdems.YBarddCwsc said:
Of course, the people with tuition fees in 2017 (the very ones who were enthused) will be the ones with tuition fee debt in 2022.justin124 said:
Reading both sets of comments , it did not strike me that a firm commitment to writing off all debt had been made. 'Ambition' is far from that - and Corbyn did specifically refer to extending repayment periods etc.
I would,however, be surprised if the commitment to abolish Tuition Fees were to be abandoned.
They will have passed from the group of people who will benefit from Corbyn to the group of people left behind. We will hear from them in 2022.
The golden rule in politics is you always hear more from the losers than the winners.
If you make tuition fees free, and then fail to write off the debt of earlier generations who were unlucky when they went to University, then you have created many more losers than winners. The losers will be only to ready to gripe publicly on air and on TV.
Similar resentment is likely from those parents who were in a position to pay the fees upfront for their sons and daughters. In such cases the debt will no longer exist - having been paid off.
It is completely unsustainable to create a stitched-up generation (& it will be electorally very damaging as well).
I think making tuition fees free goes hand-in-hand with writing off the existing debt.
The snag is nobody has yet come up with a meaningful idea to replace it.
(I am not against modest fees).
I suspect if France or Germany or the Netherlands can provide University education with affordable fees, so can we.0 -
Cough. Means-tested grants. Cough. Worked reasonably when I were a lad.ydoethur said:
Of course he's right. Everybody except uni vice chancellors, who are invariably dicks, Lord Browne, who admits he is a perjurer, and the Student Loans Company, who are so thick they do not know the order of the months of the year - I really wish I was making that up - knows the system is a shambles.YBarddCwsc said:
I think Dr Fox is right.justin124 said:
I understand that point - though suspect that the losers will still be more inclined to blame those who imposed the debt on them in the first place - ie the Tories and Libdems.YBarddCwsc said:
Of course, the people with tuition fees in 2017 (the very ones who were enthused) will be the ones with tuition fee debt in 2022.justin124 said:
Reading both sets of comments , it did not strike me that a firm commitment to writing off all debt had been made. 'Ambition' is far from that - and Corbyn did specifically refer to extending repayment periods etc.
I would,however, be surprised if the commitment to abolish Tuition Fees were to be abandoned.
They will have passed from the group of people who will benefit from Corbyn to the group of people left behind. We will hear from them in 2022.
The golden rule in politics is you always hear more from the losers than the winners.
If you make tuition fees free, and then fail to write off the debt of earlier generations who were unlucky when they went to University, then you have created many more losers than winners. The losers will be only to ready to gripe publicly on air and on TV.
Similar resentment is likely from those parents who were in a position to pay the fees upfront for their sons and daughters. In such cases the debt will no longer exist - having been paid off.
It is completely unsustainable to create a stitched-up generation (& it will be electorally very damaging as well).
I think making tuition fees free goes hand-in-hand with writing off the existing debt.
The snag is nobody has yet come up with a meaningful idea to replace it.0 -
King Cole, the numbers were much smaller then. Blair decided half the population needed a degree, and the numbers ballooned.0
-
Accept that, but surely that’s better than loans which never get repaid.Morris_Dancer said:King Cole, the numbers were much smaller then. Blair decided half the population needed a degree, and the numbers ballooned.
0 -
F1: post-race ramble here:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2018/09/russia-post-race-analysis-2018.html0 -
A percentage of loans never getting paid is a feature of the system, not a bug. Its simply a progressive graduate tax that can't be escaped from by moving abroad.OldKingCole said:
Accept that, but surely that’s better than loans which never get repaid.Morris_Dancer said:King Cole, the numbers were much smaller then. Blair decided half the population needed a degree, and the numbers ballooned.
Who is going to scrap student fees when it means taxes going up on everyone else?
0 -
Oh Rory, what a mess. This is getting seriously close.0
-
Why can’t it be escaped by moving abroad. If my (teacher) grandson moves to Thailand to teach, how is the the UK going to get access to his Thai salary?JonathanD said:
A percentage of loans never getting paid is a feature of the system, not a bug. Its simply a progressive graduate tax that can't be escaped from by moving abroad.OldKingCole said:
Accept that, but surely that’s better than loans which never get repaid.Morris_Dancer said:King Cole, the numbers were much smaller then. Blair decided half the population needed a degree, and the numbers ballooned.
Who is going to scrap student fees when it means taxes going up on everyone else?0 -
The 18th getting some action today.....0
-
In Thailand he would get away with it at the moment, even though legally he is still liable. In some European countries there is crosschecking that goes on and catches people that way.OldKingCole said:
Why can’t it be escaped by moving abroad. If my (teacher) grandson moves to Thailand to teach, how is the the UK going to get access to his Thai salary?JonathanD said:
A percentage of loans never getting paid is a feature of the system, not a bug. Its simply a progressive graduate tax that can't be escaped from by moving abroad.OldKingCole said:
Accept that, but surely that’s better than loans which never get repaid.Morris_Dancer said:King Cole, the numbers were much smaller then. Blair decided half the population needed a degree, and the numbers ballooned.
Who is going to scrap student fees when it means taxes going up on everyone else?
It all depends if he wanted to return to the UK in the future or was happy to live abroad for the rest of his career.
0 -
Half a point, half a point, half a point onward......0
-
Australia? And if he returns from Thailand does he have to catch up, or just continue from where he is now.JonathanD said:
In Thailand he would get away with it at the moment, even though legally he is still liable. In some European countries there is crosschecking that goes on and catches people that way.OldKingCole said:
Why can’t it be escaped by moving abroad. If my (teacher) grandson moves to Thailand to teach, how is the the UK going to get access to his Thai salary?JonathanD said:
A percentage of loans never getting paid is a feature of the system, not a bug. Its simply a progressive graduate tax that can't be escaped from by moving abroad.OldKingCole said:
Accept that, but surely that’s better than loans which never get repaid.Morris_Dancer said:King Cole, the numbers were much smaller then. Blair decided half the population needed a degree, and the numbers ballooned.
Who is going to scrap student fees when it means taxes going up on everyone else?
It all depends if he wanted to return to the UK in the future or was happy to live abroad for the rest of his career.0 -
Because he should have been paying while abroad, he would be liable for arrears.OldKingCole said:
Australia? And if he returns from Thailand does he have to catch up, or just continue from where he is now.JonathanD said:
In Thailand he would get away with it at the moment, even though legally he is still liable. In some European countries there is crosschecking that goes on and catches people that way.OldKingCole said:
Why can’t it be escaped by moving abroad. If my (teacher) grandson moves to Thailand to teach, how is the the UK going to get access to his Thai salary?JonathanD said:
A percentage of loans never getting paid is a feature of the system, not a bug. Its simply a progressive graduate tax that can't be escaped from by moving abroad.OldKingCole said:
Accept that, but surely that’s better than loans which never get repaid.Morris_Dancer said:King Cole, the numbers were much smaller then. Blair decided half the population needed a degree, and the numbers ballooned.
Who is going to scrap student fees when it means taxes going up on everyone else?
It all depends if he wanted to return to the UK in the future or was happy to live abroad for the rest of his career.0 -
Christmas might be on in Chez Urquhart after all.....0
-
Ah thanks. He’s not thinking on those lines at the moment; happy and fulfilled teaching in a primary school in a fairly tough part of Basildon.ydoethur said:
Because he should have been paying while abroad, he would be liable for arrears.OldKingCole said:
Australia? And if he returns from Thailand does he have to catch up, or just continue from where he is now.JonathanD said:
In Thailand he would get away with it at the moment, even though legally he is still liable. In some European countries there is crosschecking that goes on and catches people that way.OldKingCole said:
Why can’t it be escaped by moving abroad. If my (teacher) grandson moves to Thailand to teach, how is the the UK going to get access to his Thai salary?JonathanD said:
A percentage of loans never getting paid is a feature of the system, not a bug. Its simply a progressive graduate tax that can't be escaped from by moving abroad.OldKingCole said:
Accept that, but surely that’s better than loans which never get repaid.Morris_Dancer said:King Cole, the numbers were much smaller then. Blair decided half the population needed a degree, and the numbers ballooned.
Who is going to scrap student fees when it means taxes going up on everyone else?
It all depends if he wanted to return to the UK in the future or was happy to live abroad for the rest of his career.0 -
Most likely it will be Chequers Plus ie stay in the SM and CU with a slightly different name after Brexit.GIN1138 said:Anyone know what Theresa's "compromise" with the EU is going to entail?
I thought Chequers WAS the compromise?
It was clear from her Marr interview this morning when May said she was working for a Deal that her talk of No Deal as a last resort was just lip service to the Tory right, she is not actually going to do it0 -
This will be same Theresa May who went to the country last year on a manifesto saying we were definitely leaving the SM and definitely leaving the CU? Why should she keep her job?HYUFD said:
Most likely it will be Chequers Plus ie stay in the SM and CU with a slightly different name after Brexit.GIN1138 said:Anyone know what Theresa's "compromise" with the EU is going to entail?
I thought Chequers WAS the compromise?
It was clear from her Marr interview this morning when May said she was working for a Deal that her talk of No Deal as a last resort was just lip service to the Tory right, she is not actually going to do it0 -
Bottom line is, if you intend to go abroad, and stay abroad, you can dodge the SLC. This is because theyOldKingCole said:
Ah thanks. He’s not thinking on those lines at the moment; happy and fulfilled teaching in a primary school in a fairly tough part of Basildon.ydoethur said:
Because he should have been paying while abroad, he would be liable for arrears.OldKingCole said:
Australia? And if he returns from Thailand does he have to catch up, or just continue from where he is now.JonathanD said:
In Thailand he would get away with it at the moment, even though legally he is still liable. In some European countries there is crosschecking that goes on and catches people that way.OldKingCole said:
Why can’t it be escaped by moving abroad. If my (teacher) grandson moves to Thailand to teach, how is the the UK going to get access to his Thai salary?JonathanD said:
A percentage of loans never getting paid is a feature of the system, not a bug. Its simply a progressive graduate tax that can't be escaped from by moving abroad.OldKingCole said:
Accept that, but surely that’s better than loans which never get repaid.Morris_Dancer said:King Cole, the numbers were much smaller then. Blair decided half the population needed a degree, and the numbers ballooned.
Who is going to scrap student fees when it means taxes going up on everyone else?
It all depends if he wanted to return to the UK in the future or was happy to live abroad for the rest of his career.are a bunch of useless third rate cretins who would be unable to find their genitals if standing naked in front of a full length mirror, er, they do not sue through foreign courts for monies owed.
However, if you came back here for any length of time and especially if you took a job, they will almost certainly swoop, and very hard. And there's no way of dodging them because of the way the repayment system works.0 -
We really don't need, or want, a running commentary from SeanT's bedroom ...MarqueeMark said:The 18th getting some action today.....
0 -
"Europe Elects
@EuropeElects
Germany, Civey poll:
CDU/CSU-EPP: 27% (-1)
SPD-S&D: 17% (-1)
AfD-EFDD: 17% (+1)
GRÜNE-G/EFA: 16% (+1)
LINKE-LEFT: 10%
FDP-ALDE: 9% (+1)
Field work: 23/09/18 – 30/09/18
Sample size: 11,919"0 -
May has made her red lines clear. The EU has done the same. There is no overlap, hence the impasse.HYUFD said:
Most likely it will be Chequers Plus ie stay in the SM and CU with a slightly different name after Brexit.GIN1138 said:Anyone know what Theresa's "compromise" with the EU is going to entail?
I thought Chequers WAS the compromise?
It was clear from her Marr interview this morning when May said she was working for a Deal that her talk of No Deal as a last resort was just lip service to the Tory right, she is not actually going to do it
She has a simple choice. She can cave, and try to sell continued SM/CU membership or the de facto cession of Northern Ireland as somehow being compatible with the Brexit vote, or she admits that the negotiations have failed, and we will leave with no deal. Thanks to her stubbornness, she will do neither.
I expect that it will be the EU that declares the negotiations dead in November, at which point the British domestic crisis will begin.0 -
Mr. Urquhart, did you back the USA to win?0
-
That's the Ridden Cup!JosiasJessop said:
We really don't need, or want, a running commentary from SeanT's bedroom ...MarqueeMark said:The 18th getting some action today.....
More seriously it's looking very close here. Molinari against Mickelson will I think be key. If Molinari holds on Europe should win.
If Rahm can hold his nerve that makes life easier...but you wouldn't blame a rookie for cracking against Woods (what was the captain thinking with this lineup)?0 -
The BBC is taking 20 minutes to update their "live" leaderboard. Piss-poor....0
-
Mr. Mark, that's unusual. The BBC is usually excellent at sports coverage.
....0 -
They're signalling they think it will be a dead heat...MarqueeMark said:The BBC is taking 20 minutes to update their "live" leaderboard. Piss-poor....
And they might be right!0 -
America should have chosen two other players than Woods and Mickelson. May have cost them the win.0
-
Tense Ryder Cup afternoon but looking better0
-
Which captain? The American one, who knows?ydoethur said:
That's the Ridden Cup!JosiasJessop said:
We really don't need, or want, a running commentary from SeanT's bedroom ...MarqueeMark said:The 18th getting some action today.....
More seriously it's looking very close here. Molinari against Mickelson will I think be key. If Molinari holds on Europe should win.
If Rahm can hold his nerve that makes life easier...but you wouldn't blame a rookie for cracking against Woods (what was the captain thinking with this lineup)?
0 -
Woods has been rubbish. He wins one big competition and everyone thinks he is back in his prime. In truth his time has passedMarqueeMark said:America should have chosen two other players than Woods and Mickelson. May have cost them the win.
0 -
Rahm held his nerve. Won on the 17th 2&1.alex. said:
Which captain? The American one, who knows?ydoethur said:
That's the Ridden Cup!JosiasJessop said:
We really don't need, or want, a running commentary from SeanT's bedroom ...MarqueeMark said:The 18th getting some action today.....
More seriously it's looking very close here. Molinari against Mickelson will I think be key. If Molinari holds on Europe should win.
If Rahm can hold his nerve that makes life easier...but you wouldn't blame a rookie for cracking against Woods (what was the captain thinking with this lineup)?0 -
Well, a Tiger has been tamed by Rahm. Well done the Spaniard.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Woods has been rubbish. He wins one big competition and everyone thinks he is back in his prime. In truth his time has passedMarqueeMark said:America should have chosen two other players than Woods and Mickelson. May have cost them the win.
We need two of the final six. We're ahead in four.
I stand by my prediction that Molinari is the key.0 -
It is great to be oblivious to Brexit even if we want Europe to winydoethur said:
Well, a Tiger has been tamed by Rahm. Well done the Spaniard.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Woods has been rubbish. He wins one big competition and everyone thinks he is back in his prime. In truth his time has passedMarqueeMark said:America should have chosen two other players than Woods and Mickelson. May have cost them the win.
We need two of the final six. We're ahead in four.
I stand by my prediction that Molinari is the key.0 -
We're all burned out with Brexit, so it's nice to see some other Woods getting burned...Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is great to be oblivious to Brexit even if we want Europe to winydoethur said:
Well, a Tiger has been tamed by Rahm. Well done the Spaniard.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Woods has been rubbish. He wins one big competition and everyone thinks he is back in his prime. In truth his time has passedMarqueeMark said:America should have chosen two other players than Woods and Mickelson. May have cost them the win.
We need two of the final six. We're ahead in four.
I stand by my prediction that Molinari is the key.0 -
Using the EU flag for Europe is going to look a bit silly next time round.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is great to be oblivious to Brexit even if we want Europe to winydoethur said:
Well, a Tiger has been tamed by Rahm. Well done the Spaniard.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Woods has been rubbish. He wins one big competition and everyone thinks he is back in his prime. In truth his time has passedMarqueeMark said:America should have chosen two other players than Woods and Mickelson. May have cost them the win.
We need two of the final six. We're ahead in four.
I stand by my prediction that Molinari is the key.0 -
Poulter cracking shot, Fowler now in the water, getting very close0
-
They should do what Australia did and quarter it with the Union flag.alex. said:
Using the EU flag for Europe is going to look a bit silly next time round.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is great to be oblivious to Brexit even if we want Europe to winydoethur said:
Well, a Tiger has been tamed by Rahm. Well done the Spaniard.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Woods has been rubbish. He wins one big competition and everyone thinks he is back in his prime. In truth his time has passedMarqueeMark said:America should have chosen two other players than Woods and Mickelson. May have cost them the win.
We need two of the final six. We're ahead in four.
I stand by my prediction that Molinari is the key.
It would look a bit stupid, but then I've never been a big admirer of the current flag. Cheap ripoff of the old US flag.0 -
Yes, including on spread....Best hope now is Europe creep over the line and we won't be forced to drink rolla-cola for Christmas lunch.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, did you back the USA to win?
0 -
Europe on a roll nowFrancisUrquhart said:
Yes, including on spread....Best hope now is Europe creep over the line and we won't be forced to drink rolla-cola for Christmas lunch.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, did you back the USA to win?
0 -
Still creates a bit of a problem if a Norwegian or Swiss golfer manages to sneak into the team.ydoethur said:
They should do what Australia did and quarter it with the Union flag.alex. said:
Using the EU flag for Europe is going to look a bit silly next time round.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is great to be oblivious to Brexit even if we want Europe to winydoethur said:
Well, a Tiger has been tamed by Rahm. Well done the Spaniard.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Woods has been rubbish. He wins one big competition and everyone thinks he is back in his prime. In truth his time has passedMarqueeMark said:America should have chosen two other players than Woods and Mickelson. May have cost them the win.
We need two of the final six. We're ahead in four.
I stand by my prediction that Molinari is the key.
.
0 -
The likelihood of this being, ummm....alex. said:
Still creates a bit of a problem if a Norwegian or Swiss golfer manages to sneak into the team.ydoethur said:
They should do what Australia did and quarter it with the Union flag.alex. said:
Using the EU flag for Europe is going to look a bit silly next time round.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is great to be oblivious to Brexit even if we want Europe to winydoethur said:
Well, a Tiger has been tamed by Rahm. Well done the Spaniard.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Woods has been rubbish. He wins one big competition and everyone thinks he is back in his prime. In truth his time has passedMarqueeMark said:America should have chosen two other players than Woods and Mickelson. May have cost them the win.
We need two of the final six. We're ahead in four.
I stand by my prediction that Molinari is the key.
.0 -
Mr. Urquhart, we used to dream of having cola for Christmas. Would've been like a present from Jesus himself. We had to make do with rainwater from a bucket.0
-
I know.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Europe on a roll nowFrancisUrquhart said:
Yes, including on spread....Best hope now is Europe creep over the line and we won't be forced to drink rolla-cola for Christmas lunch.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, did you back the USA to win?
0 -
From where did you get the bucket? We used to have to run out with our hands cupped!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, we used to dream of having cola for Christmas. Would've been like a present from Jesus himself. We had to make do with rainwater from a bucket.
0 -
They have a minimum of 13 points. They need a bit more.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Europe on a roll nowFrancisUrquhart said:
Yes, including on spread....Best hope now is Europe creep over the line and we won't be forced to drink rolla-cola for Christmas lunch.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, did you back the USA to win?
0 -
It is a fair point but this is bigger than herrottenborough said:0 -
You had buckets! Luxury!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, we used to dream of having cola for Christmas. Would've been like a present from Jesus himself. We had to make do with rainwater from a bucket.
0 -
King Cole, we wove it together with strands we found in the abandoned asbestos factory.0
-
Ands? You 'ad 'ands!OldKingCole said:
From where did you get the bucket? We used to have to run out with our hands cupped!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, we used to dream of having cola for Christmas. Would've been like a present from Jesus himself. We had to make do with rainwater from a bucket.
We 'ad to scoop out t'imside of yoomgest's head, and use it to scoop dog piss off pavement!0 -
Poulter, Molinari and Stenson are all highly likely winners.ydoethur said:
They have a minimum of 13 points. They need a bit more.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Europe on a roll nowFrancisUrquhart said:
Yes, including on spread....Best hope now is Europe creep over the line and we won't be forced to drink rolla-cola for Christmas lunch.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, did you back the USA to win?
0 -
We are back to the desperate need for ideas and sense of direction.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is a fair point but this is bigger than herrottenborough said:
A key to winning elections is to be the side that frames the basic question(s) to be answered by the election.0 -
I reckon Europe will finish with 16.5 here.0
-
The Four Yorkshiremen have a lot to answer for!ydoethur said:
Ands? You 'ad 'ands!OldKingCole said:
From where did you get the bucket? We used to have to run out with our hands cupped!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, we used to dream of having cola for Christmas. Would've been like a present from Jesus himself. We had to make do with rainwater from a bucket.
We 'ad to scoop out t'imside of yoomgest's head, and use it to scoop dog piss off pavement!0 -
She knows she won't keep her job with No Deal, she will fudge it in such a way she can say we are still technically leaving the SM and CU even if in reality in most respects we are staying in themMarqueeMark said:
This will be same Theresa May who went to the country last year on a manifesto saying we were definitely leaving the SM and definitely leaving the CU? Why should she keep her job?HYUFD said:
Most likely it will be Chequers Plus ie stay in the SM and CU with a slightly different name after Brexit.GIN1138 said:Anyone know what Theresa's "compromise" with the EU is going to entail?
I thought Chequers WAS the compromise?
It was clear from her Marr interview this morning when May said she was working for a Deal that her talk of No Deal as a last resort was just lip service to the Tory right, she is not actually going to do it
0 -
Poulter wins, Stenson dormy 5, need half a point0
-
It is perhaps bigger than her, or Rudd or Nicky Morgan, but it is not bigger than their constituencies. Lose them and the Tories are in opposition.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is a fair point but this is bigger than herrottenborough said:
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What she will concede is greater alignment on services to coincide with the greater alignment she has already conceded on goods and the Irish backstop will be NI effectively stays in the Customs Union in all but name. She might also get some sort of Liechtenstein scenario on FoM.RoyalBlue said:
May has made her red lines clear. The EU has done the same. There is no overlap, hence the impasse.HYUFD said:
Most likely it will be Chequers Plus ie stay in the SM and CU with a slightly different name after Brexit.GIN1138 said:Anyone know what Theresa's "compromise" with the EU is going to entail?
I thought Chequers WAS the compromise?
It was clear from her Marr interview this morning when May said she was working for a Deal that her talk of No Deal as a last resort was just lip service to the Tory right, she is not actually going to do it
She has a simple choice. She can cave, and try to sell continued SM/CU membership or the de facto cession of Northern Ireland as somehow being compatible with the Brexit vote, or she admits that the negotiations have failed, and we will leave with no deal. Thanks to her stubbornness, she will do neither.
I expect that it will be the EU that declares the negotiations dead in November, at which point the British domestic crisis will begin.
It was clear from Marr this morning May has no desire for No Deal beyond paying lip service as a last restort to it for hardened Brexiteers0 -
Molinari dormy 3 - Europe have won0
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Has anyone ever not won from dormie 5 ?Big_G_NorthWales said:Poulter wins, Stenson dormy 5, need half a point
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Four Yorkshiremen? you were lucky!OldKingCole said:
The Four Yorkshiremen have a lot to answer for!ydoethur said:
Ands? You 'ad 'ands!OldKingCole said:
From where did you get the bucket? We used to have to run out with our hands cupped!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, we used to dream of having cola for Christmas. Would've been like a present from Jesus himself. We had to make do with rainwater from a bucket.
We 'ad to scoop out t'imside of yoomgest's head, and use it to scoop dog piss off pavement!
We had to make do with a Yorkie Terrier, and he had only 3 legs...0 -
Not possible - best is a halfPulpstar said:
Has anyone ever not won from dormie 5 ?Big_G_NorthWales said:Poulter wins, Stenson dormy 5, need half a point
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Terrible thing, hunger........Foxy said:
Four Yorkshiremen? you were lucky!OldKingCole said:
The Four Yorkshiremen have a lot to answer for!ydoethur said:
Ands? You 'ad 'ands!OldKingCole said:
From where did you get the bucket? We used to have to run out with our hands cupped!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, we used to dream of having cola for Christmas. Would've been like a present from Jesus himself. We had to make do with rainwater from a bucket.
We 'ad to scoop out t'imside of yoomgest's head, and use it to scoop dog piss off pavement!
We had to make do with a Yorkie Terrier, and he had only 3 legs...0 -
All over. Best team won, USA have been piss poor this week. I think the foursomes on Friday they were +13...4 pairs of world class players, 13 over par, it just terrible.0
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Molinari wins it!
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My favourite recent Four Yorkshireman failure was when some youthful twonk at a Miliband-era conference complained of his poverty, tweeting it from his iPad.0
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Do I have to make a full confession about a brook, a duff approach shot and a collapse on the last hole?Pulpstar said:
Has anyone ever not won from dormie 5 ?Big_G_NorthWales said:Poulter wins, Stenson dormy 5, need half a point
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Mickelson in water - concedes - 14.5 on board. Now how big will the win be0
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Bites nails.....Big_G_NorthWales said:Mickelson in water - concedes - 14.5 on board. Now how big will the win be
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American golf not in a great place - maybe they need to make it Rest of the World and get some help from Asia.....FrancisUrquhart said:All over. Best team won, USA have been piss poor this week. I think the foursomes on Friday they were +13...4 pairs of world class players, 13 over par, it just terrible.
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