Rochdale “Parliament won't vote for exit to EEA. Won't vote for no deal (I expect a vote compelling the government not to accept a no deal scenario). Yet they are your choices...”
I need to have a nose at the legislation. How do you see that working? Parliament voted to trigger A50 which sets a timescale and includes no deal. If there is no deal and the two years expires what is the effect of a Parliamentary vote not to accept it?
Yeah! Hence the massive constitutional crisis we are in!
What happens when MPs reject all options available? Reject extending the timetable? Reject a new referendum? But vote that they have confidence in Her Majesty's Government? What happens when despite all that the Prime Minister refuses to resign?
MPs won't vote for exit to EEA. Have a legally binding meaningful vote which will reject no deal and compel one of the options they have already rejected. Won't vote for a referendum to hand this critis back to the voters. And despite it all probably won't vote no confidence in the government. Nor will May face a viable challenge from her MPs.
A Prime Minister and a government literally stuck in office unable to do anything at all other than make petulant speeches about how crap a negotiator she is. Yet whilst stuck in office unable to do anything may work at another time, at this time we cannot have that...
You can’t negotiate when the other side refuses to.
Unless the EU is prepared to be collaborative we need to walk away
It’s stupid and idiotic of them. But unfortunately they have been misled into believing that Brexit can be reversed
You are putting your own interest in not losing face above the interests of your country. That is shameful.
Is there anything the EU could say which you would say no to ?
Yes, if they said Article 50 couldn't be revoked.
So they could demand anything from this country and you would say yes as long as they let us be part of their club.
Not really, that'll go down well with Tory members when it comes to the leadership contest.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
I suspect the EU would accept some concessions on FoM in a Norway type deal. The assumption needs testing of course but it's more realistic than most of the suggestions.
The irony on FOM is that it is entirely the fault of Britain's non-contributory benefit system that has created the problem. Hardly any other EU country operates in the same way.
Germany, France, Sweden etc have non contributory benefits just contributory benefits too, which National Insurance arguably is part of to some degree (eg to claim JSA if you have savings over the threshold you need NI contributions). It is only really Italy and Poland and Spain which have barely any non contributory benefits
We may not always agree but you do have amazing political knowledge
Thankyou although really just things I pick up rather than being any great oracle
And you have a great interest in politics which of course shows in your posts
The amazing issue for me is the blind loyalty of those wanting to remain in the EU who never say a word of criticism against the EU. It is almost as if they worship at the altar of Brussels.They would be far more credible if they would express their opinions on the negatives arising from the EU and how it could be made more accountable.
The EU has benefited tremendously from our involvement, and will change direction now that we can no longer participate. Of course we did not always get our way, but we changed the whole course of the EU project.
Brexit is Suez all over again. Suez marked our end as a world power, Brexit marks our end as a European power. The first was inevitable, but the second was our choice.
I can agree with some of that but I do not think our place as a very important nation to Europe changes at all
Of course Brexit reduces our influence in Europe! that is the whole point of withdrawing the bit of Sovreignty that we had pooled. We have chosen to withdraw from the European political, social, and cultural field. We can watch from the cheap seats, but not influence what goes on.
And how much influence did we have in the EU ?
How many times was the UK on the winning side of an EU vote with France and Germany on the losing side ?
How often were they on different sides?
I think it was De Gaulle who said that the concept of 'Europe' was an alliance between France and Germany.
And that is what in reality the EU is.
How many times have we heard that "France will need an ally against Germany" or "Germany will need an ally against France" ?
Yet France and Germany continued as allies and the UK was the odd country out.
Things have moved on from De Gaulles time in the 1960s when there were just six countries in the EEC. Inevitably Germany and France have more weight than most, but so did we.
The truth is that the EU is greater than the sum of its parts.
Yet the alliance of France and Germany is still the mentality of Brussels.
Still the mentality of the Brexiteers you mean! The problem is that many Britons have always regarded the EU as a foreign power, rather than a part of ourselves.
I have no opinion on exhaust regulations, but clearly Britain could have argued the case for punishment of the German carmakers if we had wanted to.
Not really, that'll go down well with Tory members when it comes to the leadership contest.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
I suspect the EU would accept some concessions on FoM in a Norway type deal. The assumption needs testing of course but it's more realistic than most of the suggestions.
The irony on FOM is that it is entirely the fault of Britain's non-contributory benefit system that has created the problem. Hardly any other EU country operates in the same way.
Germany, France, Sweden etc have non contributory benefits just contributory benefits too, which National Insurance arguably is part of to some degree (eg to claim JSA if you have savings over the threshold you need NI contributions). It is only really Italy and Poland and Spain which have barely any non contributory benefits
And all of those are magnets for migrants - like the UK
Rochdale “Parliament won't vote for exit to EEA. Won't vote for no deal (I expect a vote compelling the government not to accept a no deal scenario). Yet they are your choices...”
I need to have a nose at the legislation. How do you see that working? Parliament voted to trigger A50 which sets a timescale and includes no deal. If there is no deal and the two years expires what is the effect of a Parliamentary vote not to accept it?
Yeah! Hence the massive constitutional crisis we are in!
What happens when MPs reject all options available? Reject extending the timetable? Reject a new referendum? But vote that they have confidence in Her Majesty's Government? What happens when despite all that the Prime Minister refuses to resign?
MPs won't vote for exit to EEA. Have a legally binding meaningful vote which will reject no deal and compel one of the options they have already rejected. Won't vote for a referendum to hand this critis back to the voters. And despite it all probably won't vote no confidence in the government. Nor will May face a viable challenge from her MPs.
A Prime Minister and a government literally stuck in office unable to do anything at all other than make petulant speeches about how crap a negotiator she is. Yet whilst stuck in office unable to do anything may work at another time, at this time we cannot have that...
You can’t negotiate when the other side refuses to.
Unless the EU is prepared to be collaborative we need to walk away
It’s stupid and idiotic of them. But unfortunately they have been misled into believing that Brexit can be reversed
You are putting your own interest in not losing face above the interests of your country. That is shameful.
Is there anything the EU could say which you would say no to ?
Yes, if they said Article 50 couldn't be revoked.
So they could demand anything from this country and you would say yes as long as they let us be part of their club.
"Jeremy’s spent his whole political life campaigning to get us out of the EU and now there’s growing pressure on Labour to support a second referendum."
Not really, that'll go down well with Tory members when it comes to the leadership contest.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
I suspect the EU would accept some concessions on FoM in a Norway type deal. The assumption needs testing of course but it's more realistic than most of the suggestions.
The irony on FOM is that it is entirely the fault of Britain's non-contributory benefit system that has created the problem. Hardly any other EU country operates in the same way.
Germany, France, Sweden etc have non contributory benefits just contributory benefits too, which National Insurance arguably is part of to some degree (eg to claim JSA if you have savings over the threshold you need NI contributions). It is only really Italy and Poland and Spain which have barely any non contributory benefits
We may not always agree but you do have amazing political knowledge
Thankyou although really just things I pick up rather than being any great oracle
And you have a great interest in politics which of course shows in your posts
The amazing issue for me is the blind loyalty of those wanting to remain in the EU who never say a word of criticism against the EU. It is almost as if they worship at the altar of Brussels.They would be far more credible if they would express their opinions on the negatives arising from the EU and how it could be made more accountable.
I would be very surprised if next May's EU elections do not see a big move towards hard right and left MEP's being elected and if so they only have themselves to blame.
It is one of the great mysteries to me as to why Juncker is still in post. Any other CEO would have been sacked for utter incompetence but his legacy is forever tarnished in that he will be Commission President when the UK leave the EU
My main reasons to be pro EU are political, not economic. My job is well protected whatever happens, and I am not dependent on imports or exports to live and prosper.
I believe that until recently we were a very positive influence on the EU. The Single Market and budgetary reforms to CAP were largely British led, for example. We have also been very positive about structural development of the former Eastern Block towards democracy and liberal capitalist economies.
The EU has benefited tremendously from our involvement, and will change direction now that we can no longer participate. Of course we did not always get our way, but we changed the whole course of the EU project.
Brexit is Suez all over again. Suez marked our end as a world power, Brexit marks our end as a European power. The first was inevitable, but the second was our choice.
I can agree with some of that but I do not think our place as a very important nation to Europe changes at all
Of course Brexitthe cheap seats, but not influence what goes on.
And how much influence did we have in the EU ?
How many times was the UK on the winning side of an EU vote with France and Germany on the losing side ?
How often were they on different sides?
I think it was De Gaulle who said that the concept of 'Europe' was an alliance between France and Germany.
And that is what in reality the EU is.
How many times have we heard that "France will need an ally against Germany" or "Germany will need an ally against France" ?
Yet France and Germany continued as allies and the UK was the odd country out.
De Gaulle died over 40 years ago. They are very clear differences between Merkel and Macron on any number of areas. Germany, France and the UK are all allies.
Not really, that'll go down well with Tory members when it comes to the leadership contest.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
I suspect the EU would accept some concessions on FoM in a Norway type deal. The assumption needs testing of course but it's more realistic than most of the suggestions.
The irony on FOM is that it is entirely the fault of Britain's non-contributory benefit system that has created the problem. Hardly any other EU country operates in the same way.
Germany, France, Sweden etc have non contributory benefits just contributory benefits too, which National Insurance arguably is part of to some degree (eg to claim JSA if you have savings over the threshold you need NI contributions). It is only really Italy and Poland and Spain which have barely any non contributory benefits
And all of those are magnets for migrants - like the UK
I think that all welfare states struggle with entitlements in a globalised world, and will continue to do so. EU migrants do have the highest employment rates though, and are by and large young and healthy so infrequent users of the NHS, except maternity.
Rochdale “Parliament won't vote for exit to EEA. Won't vote for no deal (I expect a vote compelling the government not to accept a no deal scenario). Yet they are your choices...”
I need to have a nose at the legislation. How do you see that working? Parliament voted to trigger A50 which sets a timescale and includes no deal. If there is no deal and the two years expires what is the effect of a Parliamentary vote not to accept it?
Yeah! Hence the massive constitutional crisis we are in!
What happens when MPs reject all options available? Reject extending the timetable? Reject a new referendum? But vote that they have confidence in Her Majesty's Government? What happens when despite all that the Prime Minister refuses to resign?
MPs won't vote for exit to EEA. Have a legally binding meaningful vote which will reject no deal and compel one of the options they have already rejected. Won't vote for a referendum to hand this critis back to the voters. And despite it all probably won't vote no confidence in the government. Nor will May face a viable challenge from her MPs.
A Prime Minister and a government literally stuck in office unable to do anything at all other than make petulant speeches about how crap a negotiator she is. Yet whilst stuck in office unable to do anything may work at another time, at this time we cannot have that...
You can’t negotiate when the other side refuses to.
Unless the EU is prepared to be collaborative we need to walk away
It’s stupid and idiotic of them. But unfortunately they have been misled into believing that Brexit can be reversed
The only sort of people they listen to are people like William Glenn and AC Grayling. It's why they got into all this trouble in the first place. They have learnt nothing and forgotten nothing.
Actually, there is one very strong Remainer who does get it: Nick Clegg. He's told them that the EU need to be much more comfortable with national identity and seriously reform free movement rules. But even he is prone to fits of pique and temper loss.
But the EU can't prevent us being super-Singpore if we have crash-out Brexit. They have no control over the tax rates we set, the minimal red tape.There means of stopping it is in a reasonable negotiation, where some of that freedom is negotiated away. Yet the EU strategy is currently so crap it is going to result in the very thing they fear.
Singapore in the Atlantic is never going to be a credible threat because it would take multiple terms of right wing tory governments to achieve it. There isn't going to be one more term of tory government after Brexit never mind multiple ones. The post Brexit political and economic landscape is going to be defined by a Labour government. We can be Super-Belarus if that holds any appeal.
Yes, Brexit was built on the cry for an end of austerity in the regions, and parts of the country most dependent on government support. Not just geographically, but also pensioners, the poorly educated, the low skilled. They voted to bash the corporate elite, not to elevate them.
To those people a Corbynite protectionist Peoples Brexit is more appealing than a Hannanite freebooting one. If they wanted free trade they would have voted to remain in the organisation that we do most of our Free Trade through.
I think the manufacturing sector makes up approximately double the proportion of the Singapore economy that it does in the UK.
Now if that could be achieved in this country it certainly would boost the Leave voting areas.
If.
Yes we could try to emulate Singapores highly educated, industrious and skilled population in the Council Estates of Redcar, but can you not see a flaw in that plan?
There is a reason that there are very few Singapores in the world, and quite a lot of East Timors.
Its a generations old problem.
And requires change in many aspects of UK society and economy.
The magic money tree being cut down being one of them.
It's not just a money thing! It's cultural too - c.f. educational aspiration (and attainment) between immigrant working class and the indigenous working class.
There are variances within different groups though.
Working class immigrant communities in the West Midlands and Northern mill towns aren't noted for their educational achievements.
The amazing issue for me is the blind loyalty of those wanting to remain in the EU who never say a word of criticism against the EU. It is almost as if they worship at the altar of Brussels.They would be far more credible if they would express their opinions on the negatives arising from the EU and how it could be made more accountable.
Brexit is Suez all over again. Suez marked our end as a world power, Brexit marks our end as a European power. The first was inevitable, but the second was our choice.
I can agree with some of that but I do not think our place as a very important nation to Europe changes at all
Of course Brexit reduces our influence in Europe! that is the whole point of withdrawing the bit of Sovreignty that we had pooled. We have chosen to withdraw from the European political, social, and cultural field. We can watch from the cheap seats, but not influence what goes on.
And how much influence did we have in the EU ?
How many times was the UK on the winning side of an EU vote with France and Germany on the losing side ?
How often were they on different sides?
I think it was De Gaulle who said that the concept of 'Europe' was an alliance between France and Germany.
And that is what in reality the EU is.
How many times have we heard that "France will need an ally against Germany" or "Germany will need an ally against France" ?
Yet France and Germany continued as allies and the UK was the odd country out.
Things have moved on from De Gaulles time in the 1960s when there were just six countries in the EEC. Inevitably Germany and France have more weight than most, but so did we.
The truth is that the EU is greater than the sum of its parts.
Yet the alliance of France and Germany is still the mentality of Brussels.
The problem is that many Britons have always regarded the EU as a foreign power, rather than a part of ourselves.
An important factor in why the referendum was lost before it was called - even our political classes only ever viewed it on a transactional basis. Getting as much out as possible for putting in the least we could get away with. Time to draw a line and move on and be better neighbours than we were tenants.
Not really, that'll go down well with Tory members when it comes to the leadership contest.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
I suspect the EU would accept some concessions on FoM in a Norway type deal. The assumption needs testing of course but it's more realistic than most of the suggestions.
The irony on FOM is that it is entirely the fault of Britain's non-contributory benefit system that has created the problem. Hardly any other EU country operates in the same way.
Germany, France, Sweden etc have non contributory benefits just contributory benefits too, which National Insurance arguably is part of to some degree (eg to claim JSA if you have savings over the threshold you need NI contributions). It is only really Italy and Poland and Spain which have barely any non contributory benefits
And all of those are magnets for migrants - like the UK
So clearly are Italy and Spain given the boats from Africa headed there.
Australia and New Zealand also have similar welfare systems to the UK, however Australia in particular has tightly controlled migration policies
Not really, that'll go down well with Tory members when it comes to the leadership contest.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
But they do freedom of movement. I thought the pluses showed add ons to basic deal, even when they are minuses for us? As in +British beef +sour kraut +Spanish tomotoe -French blue cheese is on the menu whilst we like the beef and cheese, but not with the sour kraut?
Rochdale “Parliament won't vote for exit to EEA. Won't vote for no deal (I expect a vote compelling the government not to accept a no deal scenario). Yet they are your choices...”
I need to have a nose at the legislation. How do you see that working? Parliament voted to trigger A50 which sets a timescale and includes no deal. If there is no deal and the two years expires what is the effect of a Parliamentary vote not to accept it?
Yeah! Hence the massive constitutional crisis we are in!
What happens when MPs reject all options available? Reject extending the timetable? Reject a new referendum? But vote that they have confidence in Her Majesty's Government? What happens when despite all that the Prime Minister refuses to resign?
MPs won't vote for exit to EEA. Have a legally binding meaningful vote which will reject no deal and compel one of the options they have already rejected. Won't vote for a referendum to hand this critis back to the voters. And despite it all probably won't vote no confidence in the government. Nor will May face a viable challenge from her MPs.
A Prime Minister and a government literally stuck in office unable to do anything at all other than make petulant speeches about how crap a negotiator she is. Yet whilst stuck in office unable to do anything may work at another time, at this time we cannot have that...
You can’t negotiate when the other side refuses to.
Unless the EU is prepared to be collaborative we need to walk away
It’s stupid and idiotic of them. But unfortunately they have been misled into believing that Brexit can be reversed
You are putting your own interest in not losing face above the interests of your country. That is shameful.
Is there anything the EU could say which you would say no to ?
Yes, if they said Article 50 couldn't be revoked.
So they could demand anything from this country and you would say yes as long as they let us be part of their club.
That's not what I said, and it's not a 'club'.
So what would you say no to if the EU demanded it ?
Is there anything financial or economic they could ask that would make you say its time to leave the EU ?
Rochdale “Parliament won't vote for exit to EEA. Won't vote for no deal (I expect a vote compelling the government not to accept a no deal scenario). Yet they are your choices...”
I need to have a nose at the legislation. How do you see that working? Parliament voted to trigger A50 which sets a timescale and includes no deal. If there is no deal and the two years expires what is the effect of a Parliamentary vote not to accept it?
Yeah! Hence the massive constitutional crisis we are in!
What happens when MPs reject all options available? Reject extending the timetable? Reject a new referendum? But vote that they have confidence in Her Majesty's Government? What happens when despite all that the Prime Minister refuses to resign?
MPs won't vote for exit to EEA. Have a legally binding meaningful vote which will reject no deal and compel one of the options they have already rejected. Won't vote for a referendum to hand this critis back to the voters. And despite it all probably won't vote no confidence in the government. Nor will May face a viable challenge from her MPs.
A Prime Minister and a government literally stuck in office unable to do anything at all other than make petulant speeches about how crap a negotiator she is. Yet whilst stuck in office unable to do anything may work at another time, at this time we cannot have that...
You can’t negotiate when the other side refuses to.
Unless the EU is prepared to be collaborative we need to walk away
It’s stupid and idiotic of them. But unfortunately they have been misled into believing that Brexit can be reversed
Charles we have resigned our membership of our Club and are now asking to come back for lunch in jeans and a t-shirt.
'This morning our electric kettle died and so we checked our local Debenhams for it's replacement and it is retailed at £60
Before we went into Town I checked Amazon for the same kettle and it is on line at £29.99 delivered tomorrow and not through Prime.
There is your High Street disaster in the starkest of terms
Given the Internet will always have a bigger range to choose from than even the most diverse High Street that is no surprise. However business rate cuts would help High Street shops for those who like to still browse before they buy while enjoying a coffee or lunch at the same time
We shop at Debenhams regularly and did yesterday. It was inescapable that there was virtually no one in the store. Far more assistants than customers
Even so I expect even Debenhams now employs more people in its warehouses processing online deliveries and in its vans delivering them than in its actual stores nowadays, Amazon of course now has just warehouses and deliverers with no store at all and a few techies to manage its online service
Amazon will soon be virtually all AI.
Sadly the High Street of department stores will be extinct within 5 years'
If the High Street disappears almost entirely and Amazon becomes virtually all AI there will be virtually no jobs at all for most people, especially with the rise of self service supermarket checkouts and automation of most manufacturing jobs too. Hence the argument for a universal basic income and tax on robots would become inevitable
Nah. The bell of universal mass unemployment has been rung dozens of times before over the last 300 years. it's because people are very good at spotting which jobs will go (because it's easy) and terrible at forecasting the new ones that might be created.
We used to employ millions on the land, over a million in domestic service and virtually a million on the railways, now all in tiny numbers, but we created management consultants, software designers and personal trainers.
Future jobs will be based much more on leisure and "human" interaction services, and we'll probably reduce our working hours further.
The amazing issue for me is the blind loyalty of those wanting to remain in the EU who never say a word of criticism against the EU. It is almost as if they worship at the altar of Brussels.They would be far more credible if they would express their opinions on the negatives arising from the EU and how it could be made more accountable.
I would be very surprised if next May's EU elections do not see a big move towards hard right and left MEP's being elected and if so they only have themselves to blame.
It is one of the great mysteries to me as to why Juncker is still in post. Any other CEO would have been sacked for utter incompetence but his legacy is forever tarnished in that he will be Commission President when the UK leave the EU
My main reasons to be pro EU are political, not economic. My job is well protected whatever happens, and I am not dependent on imports or exports to live and prosper.
I believe that until recently we were a very positive influence on the EU. The Single Market and budgetary reforms to CAP were largely British led, for example. We have also been very positive about structural development of the former Eastern Block towards democracy and liberal capitalist economies.
The EU has benefited tremendously from our involvement, and will change direction now that we can no longer participate. Of course we did not always get our way, but we changed the whole course of the EU project.
Brexit is Suez all over again. Suez marked our end as a world power, Brexit marks our end as a European power. The first was inevitable, but the second was our choice.
It was really granting India independence that marked our end as a global superpower, Suez was just a symptom of that.
In or out of the EU we will still be a European power ie the most powerful European nation after Germany alongside France. You could also say Russia is really the most powerful European nation (as most of it is in Europe) and they have never been in the EU at all.
The fact the UK does not want to be part of an attempt to create an EU superpower does not change that
India independence kicked the process off, but it was WWII that did for it because it took all our cash and gold reserves and a serious debtor.
Without it India would have slowly moved to Dominion status by the late 1940s and early 1950s, and so would the other colonies eventually as well, but the UK would have been stronger economically and probably had more time to reflect on its global position and relationship with neighbours near and far more sensibly.
Rochdale “Parliament won't vote for exit to EEA. Won't vote for no deal (I expect a vote compelling the government not to accept a no deal scenario). Yet they are your choices...”
I need to have a nose at the legislation. How do you see that working? Parliament voted to trigger A50 which sets a timescale and includes no deal. If there is no deal and the two years expires what is the effect of a Parliamentary vote not to accept it?
Yeah! Hence the massive constitutional crisis we are in!
What happens when MPs reject all options available? Reject extending the timetable? Reject a new referendum? But vote that they have confidence in Her Majesty's Government? What happens when despite all that the Prime Minister refuses to resign?
MPs won't vote for exit to EEA. Have a legally binding meaningful vote which will reject no deal and compel one of the options they have already rejected. Won't vote for a referendum to hand this critis back to the voters. And despite it all probably won't vote no confidence in the government. Nor will May face a viable challenge from her MPs.
A Prime Minister and a government literally stuck in office unable to do anything at all other than make petulant speeches about how crap a negotiator she is. Yet whilst stuck in office unable to do anything may work at another time, at this time we cannot have that...
You can’t negotiate when the other side refuses to.
Unless the EU is prepared to be collaborative we need to walk away
It’s stupid and idiotic of them. But unfortunately they have been misled into believing that Brexit can be reversed
You are putting your own interest in not losing face above the interests of your country. That is shameful.
Is there anything the EU could say which you would say no to ?
Yes, if they said Article 50 couldn't be revoked.
So they could demand anything from this country and you would say yes as long as they let us be part of their club.
That's not what I said, and it's not a 'club'.
So what would you say no to if the EU demanded it ?
Is there anything financial or economic they could ask that would make you say its time to leave the EU ?
I think that's a ridiculous way to frame the question. I would either support the existence of the EU or not, or think it should be set up a certain way or not, but I would never support unilaterally leaving it except for national security reasons.
I don't really have the ability to focus today but I have skimmed thru it and will read it later. It seems a good (and frightening!) read, thank you.
Short version - "Lots to do, lots done and government is picking up the pace. Subject to Parliament probably on track for an agreed exit. No deal - a legislative nightmare"
The amazing issue for me is the blind loyalty of those wanting to remain in the EU who never say a word of criticism against the EU. It is almost as if they worship at the altar of Brussels.They would be far more credible if they would express their opinions on the negatives arising from the EU and how it could be made more accountable.
I have lots of criticisms of the EU. However, they hardly coincide at all with the criticisms that come up in relation to British politics, which are generally dumb and uninformed, and hostile to solving the actual problems.
Simple example: There's not enough democratic accountability over the Commission, which is several layers of indirection away from the voters. The way to solve this is to gradually politicize the European level and appoint people based on election results. But when pro-democracy people in the EU try to do that by having pan-European groups put up candidates who take part in debates and have the winner get the job, the British right try to sabotage it and appoint someone who wasn't a candidate.
The common theme there is that Britons don't want a pan-European level of governance over them, be it elected, non-elected or otherwise.
Rochdale “Parliament won't vote for exit to EEA. Won't vote for no deal (I expect a vote compelling the government not to accept a no deal scenario). Yet they are your choices...”
I need to have a nose at the legislation. How do you see that working? Parliament voted to trigger A50 which sets a timescale and includes no deal. If there is no deal and the two years expires what is the effect of a Parliamentary vote not to accept it?
Yeah! Hence the massive constitutional crisis we are in!
What happens when MPs reject all options available? Reject extending the timetable? Reject a new referendum? But vote that they have confidence in Her Majesty's Government? What happens when despite all that the Prime Minister refuses to resign?
MPs won't vote for exit to EEA. Have a legally binding meaningful vote which will reject no deal and compel one of the options they have already rejected. Won't vote for a referendum to hand this critis back to the voters. And despite it all probably won't vote no confidence in the government. Nor will May face a viable challenge from her MPs.
A Prime Minister and a government literally stuck in office unable to do anything at all other than make petulant speeches about how crap a negotiator she is. Yet whilst stuck in office unable to do anything may work at another time, at this time we cannot have that...
You can’t negotiate when the other side refuses to.
Unless the EU is prepared to be collaborative we need to walk away
It’s stupid and idiotic of them. But unfortunately they have been misled into believing that Brexit can be reversed
You are putting your own interest in not losing face above the interests of your country. That is shameful.
Is there anything the EU could say which you would say no to ?
Yes, if they said Article 50 couldn't be revoked.
So they could demand anything from this country and you would say yes as long as they let us be part of their club.
That's not what I said, and it's not a 'club'.
So what would you say no to if the EU demanded it ?
Is there anything financial or economic they could ask that would make you say its time to leave the EU ?
I would never support unilaterally leaving it except for national security reasons.
What sort of national security reasons would turn you into a Leaver, William?
I can agree with some of that but I do not think our place as a very important nation to Europe changes at all
Of course Brexit reduces our influence in Europe! that is the whole point of withdrawing the bit of Sovreignty that we had pooled. We have chosen to withdraw from the European political, social, and cultural field. We can watch from the cheap seats, but not influence what goes on.
And how much influence did we have in the EU ?
How many times was the UK on the winning side of an EU vote with France and Germany on the losing side ?
How often were they on different sides?
I think it was De Gaulle who said that the concept of 'Europe' was an alliance between France and Germany.
And that is what in reality the EU is.
How many times have we heard that "France will need an ally against Germany" or "Germany will need an ally against France" ?
Yet France and Germany continued as allies and the UK was the odd country out.
Things have moved on from De Gaulles time in the 1960s when there were just six countries in the EEC. Inevitably Germany and France have more weight than most, but so did we.
The truth is that the EU is greater than the sum of its parts.
Yet the alliance of France and Germany is still the mentality of Brussels.
Still the mentality of the Brexiteers you mean! The problem is that many Britons have always regarded the EU as a foreign power, rather than a part of ourselves.
I have no opinion on exhaust regulations, but clearly Britain could have argued the case for punishment of the German carmakers if we had wanted to.
Many Britons including British governments - the lack of any positive case made for the EU in the Referendum typifying that.
I'm rather disgusted though not surprised that the British government has been so supine about the deaths caused by illegal vehicle emissions - contrast with the attitude to Grenfall.
But pandering to the powerful is the default attitude of British governments.
More posturing, purely for domestic Murdoch/Mail consumption. Each bit of a grandstanding, like Tusk's "cherry" tweet and this nonsense from Hunt, brings a no-deal 'accident' closer.
McDonnell is going to face an almighty row at conference about the referendum, incidentally.
Yes, posturing, that's why it's an article in the Guardian, first port of call for all ardent Daily Mail readers.
I read the guardian on line regularly as well as my mail plus
The comments following McDonnell's commitment to Brexit are a joy to behold. Really big trouble looming if they are to be believed
Yes, I think the leadership have underestimated the level of potential bust-up. This may be very helpful for the tories, and useful to deflect attention from their splits in the upcoming two weeks.
Not really, that'll go down well with Tory members when it comes to the leadership contest.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
I suspect the EU would accept some concessions on FoM in a Norway type deal. The assumption needs testing of course but it's more realistic than most of the suggestions.
The irony on FOM is that it is entirely the fault of Britain's non-contributory benefit system that has created the problem. Hardly any other EU country operates in the same way.
Germany, France, Sweden etc have non contributory benefits just contributory benefits too, which National Insurance arguably is part of to some degree (eg to claim JSA if you have savings over the threshold you need NI contributions). It is only really Italy and Poland and Spain which have barely any non contributory benefits
And all of those are magnets for migrants - like the UK
Apart from a non-contributory welfare system there are other factors which make the UK attractive to migrants:
The English language A consumption based economy Governments which wanted house prices to rise
So what would you say no to if the EU demanded it ?
Is there anything financial or economic they could ask that would make you say its time to leave the EU ?
I would never support unilaterally leaving it except for national security reasons.
What sort of national security reasons would turn you into a Leaver, William?
For example if a Hitler figure rose to power and managed to face down and subvert the European institutions, although even in that case I'd want to re-establish the EU after the threat was dealt with.
Confirmation if Chequers goes down so does Hunt's leadership chances, Davis is the most likely option to push for a Canada style deal
I don't that that's true. Hunt has demonstrated a lot of competence as FS and a willingness to flex his style.
I think he'd go for the maximum CETA he could and a NI fudge with a border in the Irish Sea and a NI/Eire border, and special status for NI.
He would lose the DUP in that case.
Yep. He might. But it's actually half-way between the UK and EU positions and still keeps NI in the UK whilst recognising most of its inhabitants want a closer relationship with the EU.
He might be able to sweeten the deal with a few more things on top. Like some cash and constitutional guarantees.
I don't really have the ability to focus today but I have skimmed thru it and will read it later. It seems a good (and frightening!) read, thank you.
Short version - "Lots to do, lots done and government is picking up the pace. Subject to Parliament probably on track for an agreed exit. No deal - a legislative nightmare"
Not really, that'll go down well with Tory members when it comes to the leadership contest.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
But they do freedom of movement.
Exactly - that's the 'minus' to the British government's red lines (and also one of the key factors in the referendum result)
More posturing, purely for domestic Murdoch/Mail consumption. Each bit of a grandstanding, like Tusk's "cherry" tweet and this nonsense from Hunt, brings a no-deal 'accident' closer.
McDonnell is going to face an almighty row at conference about the referendum, incidentally.
Yes, posturing, that's why it's an article in the Guardian, first port of call for all ardent Daily Mail readers.
I read the guardian on line regularly as well as my mail plus
The comments following McDonnell's commitment to Brexit are a joy to behold. Really big trouble looming if they are to be believed
Yes, I think the leadership have underestimated the level of potential bust-up. This may be very helpful for the tories, and useful to deflect attention from their splits in the upcoming two weeks.
How long can the facade of Labour covering up the cracks continue?
Not really, that'll go down well with Tory members when it comes to the leadership contest.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
I suspect the EU would accept some concessions on FoM in a Norway type deal. The assumption needs testing of course but it's more realistic than most of the suggestions.
The irony on FOM is that it is entirely the fault of Britain's non-contributory benefit system that has created the problem. Hardly any other EU country operates in the same way.
And all of those are magnets for migrants - like the UK
Apart from a non-contributory welfare system there are other factors which make the UK attractive to migrants:
The English language A consumption based economy Governments which wanted house prices to rise
Anecdote alert:
On Thursday night, I was watching a Twitch streamer (by birth Portugese, now resident in the UK). They quite spontaneously said that they moved to the UK because we are extremely polite, friendly and helpful. Sometimes its the intangibles that matter. In my view, it's a mistake to see things entirely through a transactional lens.
"Jeremy’s spent his whole political life campaigning to get us out of the EU and now there’s growing pressure on Labour to support a second referendum."
"Jeremy’s spent his whole political life campaigning to get us out of the EU and now there’s growing pressure on Labour to support a second referendum."
Interesting that Sterling fell on Friday rather than Thursday. Implies that the market already knew that Chequers was dead, and was responding badly to May continuing to do her Weekend At Bernie's routine.
"Jeremy’s spent his whole political life campaigning to get us out of the EU and now there’s growing pressure on Labour to support a second referendum."
Lots of May haters on here unsurprisingly unhappy with her performance. Outside of political obsessives most people don’t really care. May hasn’t got many options if she is going to respect the referendum result and most people wouldn’t trust Corbyn to do any better.
If the EU want to do a deal or reverse the result, someone had better tell Tusk to stop taking the piss out of us - it’s poor form when Russia do it.
I don’t hate Theresa May. I find aspects of her admirable. But yesterday she blustered without a plan. She’s had no plan for a very long time and reality is biting now.
Not entirely fair. Chequers was a plan. However, she failed to understand that the EU does not do negotiation with supplicants.
What a lovely and charming organisation the EU is.
Yes it is. Like any club, privileges are for members only. It really is not difficult to understand.
Doing a deal with us must involve giving us something, so your statement makes no sense - if it was as clear as 'if you are in you get this, if you are out you do not' there would have been no negotation to undertake as far as the EU are concerned. I'll have to put you down as another pro EUer who thinks the EU are acting like fools. After all, they are offering us privileges of the club in seeking a deal with us.
The negotiation is on terms of leaving, and how 3rd party status is arrived at. When we are a 3rd party, there are a variety of possible relationships, helpfully summarised into a single powerpoint slide by Barnier. May's redlines then define that relationship.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
I suspect the EU would accept some concessions on FoM in a Norway type deal. The assumption needs testing of course but it's more realistic than most of the suggestions.
The irony on FOM is that it is entirely the fault of Britain's non-contributory benefit system that has created the problem. Hardly any other EU country operates in the same way.
And all of those are magnets for migrants - like the UK
Apart from a non-contributory welfare system there are other factors which make the UK attractive to migrants:
The English language A consumption based economy Governments which wanted house prices to rise
Anecdote alert:
On Thursday night, I was watching a Twitch streamer (by birth Portugese, now resident in the UK). They quite spontaneously said that they moved to the UK because we are extremely polite, friendly and helpful. Sometimes its the intangibles that matter. In my view, it's a mistake to see things entirely through a transactional lens.
There must be a mistake here.
Haven't you heard all about xenophobic lies, hate crimes (no examples ever given) and food rotting in the fields because of the stampede of migrants to leave Britain
We could agree to a Canada style Agreement easily if the EU didn’t demand the dismemberment of the UK
Reality demands it, and the good name of the British government demands it. We are committed to allow the people of the island of Ireland to choose their own arrangements "without external impediment", which means trying to use a vote in Great Britain to overturn a Remain vote in Northern Ireland and impose new economic borders is morally repugnant.
We could agree to a Canada style Agreement easily if the EU didn’t demand the dismemberment of the UK
Reality demands it, and the good name of the British government demands it. We are committed to allow the people of the island of Ireland to choose their own arrangements "without external impediment", which means trying to use a vote in Great Britain to overturn a Remain vote in Northern Ireland and impose new economic borders is morally repugnant.
Reality doesn't demand anything. This is politics, not physics.
We could agree to a Canada style Agreement easily if the EU didn’t demand the dismemberment of the UK
Reality demands it, and the good name of the British government demands it. We are committed to allow the people of the island of Ireland to choose their own arrangements "without external impediment", which means trying to use a vote in Great Britain to overturn a Remain vote in Northern Ireland and impose new economic borders is morally repugnant.
Reality doesn't demand anything. This is politics, not physics.
Reality in the sense that if you actually tried to do it in the real world, it would not end well.
We could agree to a Canada style Agreement easily if the EU didn’t demand the dismemberment of the UK
Reality demands it, and the good name of the British government demands it. We are committed to allow the people of the island of Ireland to choose their own arrangements "without external impediment", which means trying to use a vote in Great Britain to overturn a Remain vote in Northern Ireland and impose new economic borders is morally repugnant.
The vote in N Ireland was that the UK remain in the EU; not that N Ireland does.
Confirmation if Chequers goes down so does Hunt's leadership chances, Davis is the most likely option to push for a Canada style deal
I don't that that's true. Hunt has demonstrated a lot of competence as FS and a willingness to flex his style.
I think he'd go for the maximum CETA he could and a NI fudge with a border in the Irish Sea and a NI/Eire border, and special status for NI.
Hunt will have infuriated the EU with his comments today and he also burned his bridges with the ERG by backing Chequers.
No, sorry if May goes Davis is the only real viable alternative, he opposed Chequers from the beginning so he can scrap it pretty quickly and return to the UK stays in the single market and customs union in a transition period and try for a Canada style FTA in the transition as he was working on with Barnier before Chequers.
Davis is the only candidate who can bridge the ERG and EU divide and have a policy that can keep the DUP on side for now too
Apologies for the lack of an article this morning. My son's not been well these last two days (temperature 40C at times), and we've spent the last two evenings in A&E. Fingers crossed, he's over the worst of it.
I'll see if I've time to do something later this weekend.
Apologies for the lack of an article this morning. My son's not been well these last two days (temperature 40C at times), and we've spent the last two evenings in A&E. Fingers crossed, he's over the worst of it.
I'll see if I've time to do something later this weekend.
We could agree to a Canada style Agreement easily if the EU didn’t demand the dismemberment of the UK
Reality demands it, and the good name of the British government demands it. We are committed to allow the people of the island of Ireland to choose their own arrangements "without external impediment", which means trying to use a vote in Great Britain to overturn a Remain vote in Northern Ireland and impose new economic borders is morally repugnant.
The vote in N Ireland was that the UK remain in the EU; not that N Ireland does.
Nevertheless, a UK advisory referendum in which NI voted Remain does not provide a mandate to take Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union.
Have they weakened Theresa May? That's not how it looks from the headlines.
She does her whole Thatcher thing, that gets her through the party conference, and everyone goes back to negotiating.
Perhaps - it might just give her a couple weeks despite from coup talk as she sounds harder for s bit, but as the EU appear to be genuine that the problems are on indivisible red lines not meeting, I don't know what May could pivot back to in negotiations post conference. Sure, it would mean even less time for rebels to seek to oust her if she waters Chequers down even more, but they can still just vote it down with Labour, so trying to haggle over something like but not Chequers is meaningless unless the EU has been bluffing, and I don't think they have been. May probably has, but lacks numbers to give in even if she tries.
Unless the EU can offer something in return for a cspulation which she might be able to sell. May be.but what could that be?
Apologies for the lack of an article this morning. My son's not been well these last two days (temperature 40C at times), and we've spent the last two evenings in A&E. Fingers crossed, he's over the worst of it.
I'll see if I've time to do something later this weekend.
Sorry to hear it, best wishes and fingers crossed.
The British position is weak. We are committed to a course of action that makes things worse and we want others to rescue us from the effects. People who' are also damaged by our action.
Have they weakened Theresa May? That's not how it looks from the headlines.
She does her whole Thatcher thing, that gets her through the party conference, and everyone goes back to negotiating.
Perhaps - it might just give her a couple weeks despite from coup talk as she sounds harder for s bit, but as the EU appear to be genuine that the problems are on indivisible red lines not meeting, I don't know what May could pivot back to in negotiations post conference. Sure, it would mean even less time for rebels to seek to oust her if she waters Chequers down even more, but they can still just vote it down with Labour, so trying to haggle over something like but not Chequers is meaningless unless the EU has been bluffing, and I don't think they have been. May probably has, but lacks numbers to give in even if she tries.
Unless the EU can offer something in return for a cspulation which she might be able to sell. May be.but what could that be?
At lunchtime today I was asked out of the blue if I thought Brexit would increase the chance of Irish unification.
My response was that as I've not been following brexit closely I honestly have no idea.
But it's in interesting question. Will it?
Yes. It's not certain but it creates chaos and puts s lot of pressure on so definitely increases the chance.
If technological solutions work in the “sea border” and between Spain and the Canaries, why won’t they work between Eire and NI?
Why would they not work in the seaborder between GB and Ireland? or are you saying that Spain and the Canary Islands cannot be one country?
They can work physically. But politically I don’t think they are doable given Ireland’s complex history. I’m not aware that the Canaries and Spain have the same legacy
'This morning our electric kettle died and so we checked our local Debenhams for it's replacement and it is retailed at £60
Before we went into Town I checked Amazon for the same kettle and it is on line at £29.99 delivered tomorrow and not through Prime.
There is your High Street disaster in the starkest of terms
Given the Internet will always have a bigger range to choose from than even the most diverse High Street that is no surprise. However business rate cuts would help High Street shops for those who like to still browse before they buy while enjoying a coffee or lunch at the same time
We shop at Debenhams regularly and did yesterday. It was inescapable that there was virtually no one in the store. Far more assistants than customers
Even so I expect even Debenhams now employs more people in its warehouses processing online deliveries and in its vans delivering them than in its actual stores nowadays, Amazon of course now has just warehouses and deliverers with no store at all and a few techies to manage its online service
Amazon will soon be virtually all AI.
Sadly the High Street of department stores will be extinct within 5 years'
If the High Street disappears almost entirely and Amazon becomes virtually all AI there will be virtually no jobs at all for most people, especially with the rise of self service supermarket checkouts and automation of most manufacturing jobs too. Hence the argument for a universal basic income and tax on robots would become inevitable
Nah. The bell of universal mass unemployment has been rung dozens of times before over the last 300 years. it's because people are very good at spotting which jobs will go (because it's easy) and terrible at forecasting the new ones that might be created.
We used to employ millions on the land, over a million in domestic service and virtually a million on the railways, now all in tiny numbers, but we created management consultants, software designers and personal trainers.
Future jobs will be based much more on leisure and "human" interaction services, and we'll probably reduce our working hours further.
'If working hours are reduced substantially something will have to replace the lost earnings when not working and most people are not going to have the IQ to be software designers and management consultants'
We could agree to a Canada style Agreement easily if the EU didn’t demand the dismemberment of the UK
Reality demands it, and the good name of the British government demands it. We are committed to allow the people of the island of Ireland to choose their own arrangements "without external impediment", which means trying to use a vote in Great Britain to overturn a Remain vote in Northern Ireland and impose new economic borders is morally repugnant.
Reality doesn't demand anything. This is politics, not physics.
Reality in the sense that if you actually tried to do it in the real world, it would not end well.
Morning Mr Glenn. NI voted in a UK referendum in whether we all should leave the EU. Not that they wouldn’t and GB would. Stop conflating.
Anyhoo, off to potter, whilst we await a response from les Bruxellois to yesterday ( other than the sticking plaster holding statement from Tusk after five hours, of cobbling together, having realised they’ve gone too far). Bet they are having a good head scratch.
Not really, that'll go down well with Tory members when it comes to the leadership contest.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
I suspect the EU would accept some concessions on FoM in a Norway type deal. The assumption needs testing of course but it's more realistic than most of the suggestions.
The irony on FOM is that it is entirely the fault of Britain's non-contributory benefit system that has created the problem. Hardly any other EU country operates in the same way.
Not entirely. It worked fine before Maastricht invented the concept of the “EU Citizen”
If Corbyn is still leader and the Tories get through Brexit in one piece, then I think the Tories will win GE2022.
If neither or those two things apply, then everything is up for grabs.
If Corbyn is still leader and sticks with his Brexit policy then I think the Tories will win GE22.
In the last month, Labour has lost about 1% to the LibDems. The consequence is that the LibDems gain one seat but the Tories gain nine compared with a month ago, and are just 20 short of an overall majority.
Corbyn and McDonnell, with their Brexit policy, are boosting the LibDems, dividing the Remainer vote, and giving victory to the Tories.
You can’t negotiate when the other side refuses to.
Unless the EU is prepared to be collaborative we need to walk away
It’s stupid and idiotic of them. But unfortunately they have been misled into believing that Brexit can be reversed
I refer you to my previous post (in fact, I think I've had this conversation with you some months ago). We are not negotiating per se with the EU, we are asking them for a favour. It's a different approach.
That’s where we disagree
The EU benefits from a deal
1. Avoids economic disruption (albeit relatively less than the UK) 2. Ongoing preferential access to an important market 3. Close relationship with a potential significant ally 4. Collaboration on security and other issues
Not really, that'll go down well with Tory members when it comes to the leadership contest.
So what you’re saying is our chief diplomat is prioritising party over country. Surely it’s the job of the FO to lower tension and discover a way forward, not play to his leadership dream. The sort of nonsense you expect from Boris.
I'm not a Boris Johnson fan, but I agree Matthew Syed that Boris gets too much grief for being openly ambitious. The likes of Hunt covet the top job just as much but are probably not quite so blatant when it comes to posturing and positioning.
I'm going to be watching Jeremy Hunt and his odds very carefully over the next few weeks.
What's Canada+++ ? Is it cake?
It’s what the EU has offered - the fly in the ointment, to mix metaphors is the customs border in the Irish Sea (EU version) or whole U.K. in SM for goods (UK version).
When you add enough pluses to Canada you end up in Norway?
No - because Norway has one significant minus - Freedom of Movement.
I suspect the EU would accept some concessions on FoM in a Norway type deal. The assumption needs testing of course but it's more realistic than most of the suggestions.
The irony on FOM is that it is entirely the fault of Britain's non-contributory benefit system that has created the problem. Hardly any other EU country operates in the same way.
Not entirely. It worked fine before Maastricht invented the concept of the “EU Citizen”
Rochdale “Parliament won't vote for exit to EEA. Won't vote for no deal (I expect a vote compelling the government not to accept a no deal scenario). Yet they are your choices...”
I need to have a nose at the legislation. How do you see that working? Parliament voted to trigger A50 which sets a timescale and includes no deal. If there is no deal and the two years expires what is the effect of a Parliamentary vote not to accept it?
Yeah! Hence the massive constitutional crisis we are in!
What happens when MPs reject all options available? Reject extending the timetable? Reject a new referendum? But vote that they have confidence in Her Majesty's Government? What happens when despite all that the Prime Minister refuses to resign?
MPs won't vote for exit to EEA. Have a legally binding meaningful vote which will reject no deal and compel one of the options they have already rejected. Won't vote for a referendum to hand this critis back to the voters. And despite it all probably won't vote no confidence in the government. Nor will May face a viable challenge from her MPs.
A Prime Minister and a government literally stuck in office unable to do anything at all other than make petulant speeches about how crap a negotiator she is. Yet whilst stuck in office unable to do anything may work at another time, at this time we cannot have that...
You can’t negotiate when the other side refuses to.
Unless the EU is prepared to be collaborative we need to walk away
It’s stupid and idiotic of them. But unfortunately they have been misled into believing that Brexit can be reversed
You are putting your own interest in not losing face above the interests of your country. That is shameful.
Tetchy today William?
I’m not going to lose face one way or the other. And we disagree about what is in the best interests of our country
Apologies for the lack of an article this morning. My son's not been well these last two days (temperature 40C at times), and we've spent the last two evenings in A&E. Fingers crossed, he's over the worst of it.
I'll see if I've time to do something later this weekend.
You son is far more important.. Just concentrate on getting him better. All the best
Confirmation if Chequers goes down so does Hunt's leadership chances, Davis is the most likely option to push for a Canada style deal
I don't that that's true. Hunt has demonstrated a lot of competence as FS and a willingness to flex his style.
I think he'd go for the maximum CETA he could and a NI fudge with a border in the Irish Sea and a NI/Eire border, and special status for NI.
Hunt will have infuriated the EU with his comments today and he also burned his bridges with the ERG by backing Chequers.
No, sorry if May goes Davis is the only real viable alternative, he opposed Chequers from the beginning so he can scrap it pretty quickly and return to the UK stays in the single market and customs union in a transition period and try for a Canada style FTA in the transition as he was working on with Barnier before Chequers.
Davis is the only candidate who can bridge the ERG and EU divide and have a policy that can keep the DUP on side for now too
We could agree to a Canada style Agreement easily if the EU didn’t demand the dismemberment of the UK
Reality demands it, and the good name of the British government demands it. We are committed to allow the people of the island of Ireland to choose their own arrangements "without external impediment", which means trying to use a vote in Great Britain to overturn a Remain vote in Northern Ireland and impose new economic borders is morally repugnant.
Reality doesn't demand anything. This is politics, not physics.
Reality in the sense that if you actually tried to do it in the real world, it would not end well.
I'd be agreeable to a second referendum in Northern Island. They can decide if they want to leave with the UK or stay in the EU via a merger with the RoI. It may not be politically achievable, but it would be amusing.
The UK government needs to prepare a strategy for a tumbleweed silence from the EU in response to May's challenge to them.
Best to go flat out for a WTO Brexit now with no divorce bill. Don't waste any more time.
If the EU then decide to make some concessions in exchange for some divorce payments then so much the better.
WTO terms Brexit will likely lead to a second EU referendum within a year, which Remain would probably win and Brexit RIP
But we would be out by then. Ref needs to happen this autumn/winter, or there needs to be a A50 extension.
Seems, according to Sun, May intends to try and call EU bluff. She will press on with Chequers.
Looks increasingly that her Cabinet are going to have to depose her in order to stop us walking into No Deal due to her complete misreading of EU and refusal to budge.
Rochdale “Parliament won't vote for exit to EEA. Won't vote for no deal (I expect a vote compelling the government not to accept a no deal scenario). Yet they are your choices...”
I need to have a nose at the legislation. How do you see that working? Parliament voted to trigger A50 which sets a timescale and includes no deal. If there is no deal and the two years expires what is the effect of a Parliamentary vote not to accept it?
Yeah! Hence the massive constitutional crisis we are in!
What happens when MPs reject all options available? Reject extending the timetable? Reject a new referendum? But vote that they have confidence in Her Majesty's Government? What happens when despite all that the Prime Minister refuses to resign?
MPs won't vote for exit to EEA. Have a legally binding meaningful vote which will reject no deal and compel one of the options they have already rejected. Won't vote for a referendum to hand this critis back to the voters. And despite it all probably won't vote no confidence in the government. Nor will May face a viable challenge from her MPs.
A Prime Minister and a government literally stuck in office unable to do anything at all other than make petulant speeches about how crap a negotiator she is. Yet whilst stuck in office unable to do anything may work at another time, at this time we cannot have that...
You can’t negotiate when the other side refuses to.
Unless the EU is prepared to be collaborative we need to walk away
It’s stupid and idiotic of them. But unfortunately they have been misled into believing that Brexit can be reversed
Charles we have resigned our membership of our Club and are now asking to come back for lunch in jeans and a t-shirt.
I’m not defending Chequers. But insistent on the backstop is what prevents a FTA.
Facts are that the EUs position on NI has driven the UK to propose ideas that involve cherry picking. Since the Irish Sea border is obviously a non starter to anyone with a clue, and the EU rejected a technological solution, May is right is thinking that the only option that meets EU demands in NI is to somehow continue frictionless trade via a customs arrangement. So the EU can hardly be shocked when this is what she proposes.
The EU were told in their very first meeting with Davis that the UK was leaving the CU and the SM. This position has NEVER changed. Yet it is the EU that continue to ignore this reality and seem to expect that the only possible solution is one which ignores this basic fact.
In my view the UK should have simply refused to even discuss an NI backstop. But the reality is that the UK have put forward many, many plans to address the various issues. The EU have provided nothing except a plan which ignores what they were told on the very first day and a plan that has no chance whatsoever of being accepted.
Confirmation if Chequers goes down so does Hunt's leadership chances, Davis is the most likely option to push for a Canada style deal
I don't that that's true. Hunt has demonstrated a lot of competence as FS and a willingness to flex his style.
I think he'd go for the maximum CETA he could and a NI fudge with a border in the Irish Sea and a NI/Eire border, and special status for NI.
Hunt will have infuriated the EU with his comments today
How so? Where does he attack the EU?
“We need to avoid revving up the situation, making it worse by appealing to audiences on social media.” Instead, he said, all parties should be “seriously and diligently working to a solution”.
“That’s what Theresa May wants to do and she has taken some big risks. She’s shown real flexibility with these Chequers proposals, she lost two important cabinet ministers as a result of that, and we need the EU to show flexibility in return. If there are elements of our proposal they find difficult, then tell us what they are and we will sit down and work through them.”
Tusk made a fairly innocuous Instagram post which under different circumstances would have passed off as slightly juvenile but nothing to get upset about. As it was, under the circumstances that emerged it looked condescending and insulting - neither of which I'm sure he intended.
We could agree to a Canada style Agreement easily if the EU didn’t demand the dismemberment of the UK
Reality demands it, and the good name of the British government demands it. We are committed to allow the people of the island of Ireland to choose their own arrangements "without external impediment", which means trying to use a vote in Great Britain to overturn a Remain vote in Northern Ireland and impose new economic borders is morally repugnant.
Yawn.
It was a vote of the U.K. electorate.
In science your approach is known as a retrospective analysis and is statistically bollocks
Rochdale “Parliament won't vote for exit to EEA. Won't vote for no deal (I expect a vote compelling the government not to accept a no deal scenario). Yet they are your choices...”
I need to have a nose at the legislation. How do you see that working? Parliament voted to trigger A50 which sets a timescale and includes no deal. If there is no deal and the two years expires what is the effect of a Parliamentary vote not to accept it?
Yeah! Hence the massive constitutional crisis we are in!
What happens when MPs reject all options available? Reject extending the timetable? Reject a new referendum? But vote that they have confidence in Her Majesty's Government? What happens when despite all that the Prime Minister refuses to resign?
MPs won't vote for exit to EEA. Have a legally binding meaningful vote which will reject no deal and compel one of the options they have already rejected. Won't vote for a referendum to hand this critis back to the voters. And despite it all probably won't vote no confidence in the government. Nor will May face a viable challenge from her MPs.
A Prime Minister and a government literally stuck in office unable to do anything at all other than make petulant speeches about how crap a negotiator she is. Yet whilst stuck in office unable to do anything may work at another time, at this time we cannot have that...
You can’t negotiate when the other side refuses to.
Unless the EU is prepared to be collaborative we need to walk away
It’s stupid and idiotic of them. But unfortunately they have been misled into believing that Brexit can be reversed
Charles we have resigned our membership of our Club and are now asking to come back for lunch in jeans and a t-shirt.
I’m not defending Chequers. But insistent on the backstop is what prevents a FTA.
If May had the guts to offer a straight choice between CETA, no NI backstop and the money or No Deal, I still believe that the EU would shaft Ireland. Once the 'threat' to the SM is gone EU leaders are not going to harm their own economies just for NI, which lets be honest none of them care about in the least.
Confirmation if Chequers goes down so does Hunt's leadership chances, Davis is the most likely option to push for a Canada style deal
I don't that that's true. Hunt has demonstrated a lot of competence as FS and a willingness to flex his style.
I think he'd go for the maximum CETA he could and a NI fudge with a border in the Irish Sea and a NI/Eire border, and special status for NI.
Hunt will have infuriated the EU with his comments today and he also burned his bridges with the ERG by backing Chequers.
No, sorry if May goes Davis is the only real viable alternative, he opposed Chequers from the beginning so he can scrap it pretty quickly and return to the UK stays in the single market and customs union in a transition period and try for a Canada style FTA in the transition as he was working on with Barnier before Chequers.
Davis is the only candidate who can bridge the ERG and EU divide and have a policy that can keep the DUP on side for now too
You've moved on from Boris, then?
I would still prefer Boris to lead the Tories at the next general election but to complete the negotiations with the EU if May goes Davis is the only realistic option
Apologies for the lack of an article this morning. My son's not been well these last two days (temperature 40C at times), and we've spent the last two evenings in A&E. Fingers crossed, he's over the worst of it.
I'll see if I've time to do something later this weekend.
Don’t worry David. Take care of your son (and don’t forget - may be more importantly - your wife). We don’t matter
The UK government needs to prepare a strategy for a tumbleweed silence from the EU in response to May's challenge to them.
Best to go flat out for a WTO Brexit now with no divorce bill. Don't waste any more time.
If the EU then decide to make some concessions in exchange for some divorce payments then so much the better.
WTO terms Brexit will likely lead to a second EU referendum within a year, which Remain would probably win and Brexit RIP
But we would be out by then. Ref needs to happen this autumn/winter, or there needs to be a A50 extension.
Seems, according to Sun, May intends to try and call EU bluff. She will press on with Chequers.
Looks increasingly that her Cabinet are going to have to depose her in order to stop us walking into No Deal due to her complete misreading of EU and refusal to budge.
So what. If we vote to rejoin the EU, then we rejoin the EU.
As I said I expect May to be toppled after the party conference if she persists with Chequers at all costs
- The word "Chequers" did not cross her lips yesterday - so there may be some room for manoeuvre and
- Not having Hunt (the Foreign secretary FFS!) on the "Brexit inner cabinet" is a serious miscalculation. Not having Boris, I quite understand, but not Hunt?
Confirmation if Chequers goes down so does Hunt's leadership chances, Davis is the most likely option to push for a Canada style deal
I don't that that's true. Hunt has demonstrated a lot of competence as FS and a willingness to flex his style.
I think he'd go for the maximum CETA he could and a NI fudge with a border in the Irish Sea and a NI/Eire border, and special status for NI.
Hunt will have infuriated the EU with his comments today
How so? Where does he attack the EU?
“We need to avoid revving up the situation, making it worse by appealing to audiences on social media.” Instead, he said, all parties should be “seriously and diligently working to a solution”.
“That’s what Theresa May wants to do and she has taken some big risks. She’s shown real flexibility with these Chequers proposals, she lost two important cabinet ministers as a result of that, and we need the EU to show flexibility in return. If there are elements of our proposal they find difficult, then tell us what they are and we will sit down and work through them.”
Tusk made a fairly innocuous Instagram post which under different circumstances would have passed off as slightly juvenile but nothing to get upset about. As it was, under the circumstances that emerged it looked condescending and insulting - neither of which I'm sure he intended.
I thought the EU had told May and her diplomats what the problem was. They believe her ideas will undermine the SM iirc. Nor are they keen on the customs collection frig.
Comments
I have no opinion on exhaust regulations, but clearly Britain could have argued the case for punishment of the German carmakers if we had wanted to.
If neither or those two things apply, then everything is up for grabs.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/21/jeremy-corbyns-journey-dejected-outsider-idol-left-threatening/
That’s the misunderstanding at the root of the failure
It doesn’t
Actually, there is one very strong Remainer who does get it: Nick Clegg. He's told them that the EU need to be much more comfortable with national identity and seriously reform free movement rules. But even he is prone to fits of pique and temper loss.
Wisdom is very rare on the pro-EU side.
Working class immigrant communities in the West Midlands and Northern mill towns aren't noted for their educational achievements.
Nor I suspect will East European Roma.
Australia and New Zealand also have similar welfare systems to the UK, however Australia in particular has tightly controlled migration policies
I think he'd go for the maximum CETA he could and a NI fudge with a border in the Irish Sea and a NI/Eire border, and special status for NI.
Is there anything financial or economic they could ask that would make you say its time to leave the EU ?
Even so I expect even Debenhams now employs more people in its warehouses processing online deliveries and in its vans delivering them than in its actual stores nowadays, Amazon of course now has just warehouses and deliverers with no store at all and a few techies to manage its online service
Amazon will soon be virtually all AI.
Sadly the High Street of department stores will be extinct within 5 years'
If the High Street disappears almost entirely and Amazon becomes virtually all AI there will be virtually no jobs at all for most people, especially with the rise of self service supermarket checkouts and automation of most manufacturing jobs too. Hence the argument for a universal basic income and tax on robots would become inevitable
Nah. The bell of universal mass unemployment has been rung dozens of times before over the last 300 years. it's because people are very good at spotting which jobs will go (because it's easy) and terrible at forecasting the new ones that might be created.
We used to employ millions on the land, over a million in domestic service and virtually a million on the railways, now all in tiny numbers, but we created management consultants, software designers and personal trainers.
Future jobs will be based much more on leisure and "human" interaction services, and we'll probably reduce our working hours further.
Without it India would have slowly moved to Dominion status by the late 1940s and early 1950s, and so would the other colonies eventually as well, but the UK would have been stronger economically and probably had more time to reflect on its global position and relationship with neighbours near and far more sensibly.
I'm rather disgusted though not surprised that the British government has been so supine about the deaths caused by illegal vehicle emissions - contrast with the attitude to Grenfall.
But pandering to the powerful is the default attitude of British governments.
@Casino_Royale
An increasing number of people will become marginally unemployable, as they will not have the qualities needed for Workplace 21cen.
As we've all found, the future, once predicted to be black/rosy is usually just a murky brown when we actually get there
The English language
A consumption based economy
Governments which wanted house prices to rise
We don't have enough time to do that at the moment, and I expect the economy will move in that direction in ways we cannot yet understand.
He might be able to sweeten the deal with a few more things on top. Like some cash and constitutional guarantees.
Best to go flat out for a WTO Brexit now with no divorce bill. Don't waste any more time.
If the EU then decide to make some concessions in exchange for some divorce payments then so much the better.
We are already a laughing stock in the international community, our power and influence diminished and you chose this moronic cause of action.
Having dinner with my Indian diplomat friend tonight - will be interesting to get his views.
On Thursday night, I was watching a Twitch streamer (by birth Portugese, now resident in the UK). They quite spontaneously said that they moved to the UK because we are extremely polite, friendly and helpful. Sometimes its the intangibles that matter. In my view, it's a mistake to see things entirely through a transactional lens.
What is your view about voting for each of the following parties [at the next General election]? Con : Lab
Definitely/Seriously consider: 39 / 39
Might: 10 / 11
Definitely not/Probably not: 50 / 50
(Lib Dems: 11 / 16 / 61 )
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/9rte0e589p/People'sVote_180905_LabGains.pdf
Haven't you heard all about xenophobic lies, hate crimes (no examples ever given) and food rotting in the fields because of the stampede of migrants to leave Britain
https://youtu.be/7JWxrMw4LfQ?t=5m3s
https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/heres-the-woman-behind-britains-most-divisive-twitter
No, sorry if May goes Davis is the only real viable alternative, he opposed Chequers from the beginning so he can scrap it pretty quickly and return to the UK stays in the single market and customs union in a transition period and try for a Canada style FTA in the transition as he was working on with Barnier before Chequers.
Davis is the only candidate who can bridge the ERG and EU divide and have a policy that can keep the DUP on side for now too
I'll see if I've time to do something later this weekend.
Trusted traveller with spot checks would do
It has nothing to do with politeness.
Amazon will soon be virtually all AI.
Sadly the High Street of department stores will be extinct within 5 years'
If the High Street disappears almost entirely and Amazon becomes virtually all AI there will be virtually no jobs at all for most people, especially with the rise of self service supermarket checkouts and automation of most manufacturing jobs too. Hence the argument for a universal basic income and tax on robots would become inevitable
Nah. The bell of universal mass unemployment has been rung dozens of times before over the last 300 years. it's because people are very good at spotting which jobs will go (because it's easy) and terrible at forecasting the new ones that might be created.
We used to employ millions on the land, over a million in domestic service and virtually a million on the railways, now all in tiny numbers, but we created management consultants, software designers and personal trainers.
Future jobs will be based much more on leisure and "human" interaction services, and we'll probably reduce our working hours further.
'If working hours are reduced substantially something will have to replace the lost earnings when not working and most people are not going to have the IQ to be software designers and management consultants'
Anyhoo, off to potter, whilst we await a response from les Bruxellois to yesterday ( other than the sticking plaster holding statement from Tusk after five hours, of cobbling together, having realised they’ve gone too far). Bet they are having a good head scratch.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7319291/theresa-may-brexit-james-forsyth/
In the last month, Labour has lost about 1% to the LibDems. The consequence is that the LibDems gain one seat but the Tories gain nine compared with a month ago, and are just 20 short of an overall majority.
Corbyn and McDonnell, with their Brexit policy, are boosting the LibDems, dividing the Remainer vote, and giving victory to the Tories.
The EU benefits from a deal
1. Avoids economic disruption (albeit relatively less than the UK)
2. Ongoing preferential access to an important market
3. Close relationship with a potential significant ally
4. Collaboration on security and other issues
I’m not going to lose face one way or the other. And we disagree about what is in the best interests of our country
Seems, according to Sun, May intends to try and call EU bluff. She will press on with Chequers.
Looks increasingly that her Cabinet are going to have to depose her in order to stop us walking into No Deal due to her complete misreading of EU and refusal to budge.
Facts are that the EUs position on NI has driven the UK to propose ideas that involve cherry picking. Since the Irish Sea border is obviously a non starter to anyone with a clue, and the EU rejected a technological solution, May is right is thinking that the only option that meets EU demands in NI is to somehow continue frictionless trade via a customs arrangement. So the EU can hardly be shocked when this is what she proposes.
The EU were told in their very first meeting with Davis that the UK was leaving the CU and the SM. This position has NEVER changed. Yet it is the EU that continue to ignore this reality and seem to expect that the only possible solution is one which ignores this basic fact.
In my view the UK should have simply refused to even discuss an NI backstop. But the reality is that the UK have put forward many, many plans to address the various issues. The EU have provided nothing except a plan which ignores what they were told on the very first day and a plan that has no chance whatsoever of being accepted.
“We need to avoid revving up the situation, making it worse by appealing to audiences on social media.” Instead, he said, all parties should be “seriously and diligently working to a solution”.
“That’s what Theresa May wants to do and she has taken some big risks. She’s shown real flexibility with these Chequers proposals, she lost two important cabinet ministers as a result of that, and we need the EU to show flexibility in return. If there are elements of our proposal they find difficult, then tell us what they are and we will sit down and work through them.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/22/dont-mistake-british-politeness-for-weakness-jeremy-hunt-tells-eu
Tusk made a fairly innocuous Instagram post which under different circumstances would have passed off as slightly juvenile but nothing to get upset about. As it was, under the circumstances that emerged it looked condescending and insulting - neither of which I'm sure he intended.
It was a vote of the U.K. electorate.
In science your approach is known as a retrospective analysis and is statistically bollocks
As I said I expect May to be toppled after the party conference if she persists with Chequers at all costs
- The word "Chequers" did not cross her lips yesterday - so there may be some room for manoeuvre and
- Not having Hunt (the Foreign secretary FFS!) on the "Brexit inner cabinet" is a serious miscalculation. Not having Boris, I quite understand, but not Hunt?