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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Get the pain started now - rip that plaster off. Regroup under a new name. Campaign for modern Labour values of social democracy and for better government.
    Given Mrs May and the Tories are unlikely to want to go to the country before 2022, the sooner, the better, if you believe that will provide a solution.

    PLP 'Steadiness under fire' is looking more and more like 'frozen in the headlights'.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,143

    a) Labour losing is no guarantee that Corbyn goes. The excuse will be that the establishment conspired to stop him winning and so we have to continue to fight for what we believe in. And by that stage, the changes to the rules etc will mean that regaining control for the realist wing of the party would be nigh on impossible.

    b) This would be the most entertaining piece of political theatre - but it would be an almighty mess. And they would have stood under a Corbyn platform and be tainted by having endorsed him in public. Crossing your fingers behind your back doesn't count.

    Get the pain started now - rip that plaster off. Regroup under a new name. Campaign for modern Labour values of social democracy and for better government.

    It would be open, honest and laudable.
    I think Jezza losing means he goes. A similar figure may replace him, and so your point still works. But given his age and the 7 or 8 years he will have been leader. A loss is the end for him.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    A clear loss in a couple of years time and he would probably go IMO. I don't think the party would shift back rightwards after Corbyn though, not to any dramatic degree.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Corbyn will go - eventually. All leaders do.

    But he will have entrenched rules that make it far easier for his fringe to retain control.

    And so the damage will have been made semi-permanent.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Since the United Kingdom chose to leave the EU, a new consensus has emerged amongst Tokyo-based policymakers, such as members of Japan’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs and those close to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, myself included. Call it the 'Tokyo Consensus'. It assumes that, as far as Japan’s national interest is concerned, Brexit may well turn out to be a blessing in disguise. The benefits of Brexit for Japan, which are largely geopolitical, could offset its costs, which are mostly economic. This assumption appears to be shared internationally. Conversations with diplomats and visitors from Australia, New Zealand, India and the US, amongst others, have given me a sense that the 'Tokyo Consensus' may have a wider, Indo-Pacific, application.

    The reasoning behind the Tokyo Consensus goes as follows: Post-Brexit Britain will no longer be able to identify with Europe in the way it did pre-Brexit. A soul-searching Britain will instead seek to rediscover, and reinvest in, an older self-image which holds that, relative to nations on the Continent, Britain is still a great seafaring country with global interests that cover much of the English-speaking world, a remnant of the once glorious empire, be that as it may.


    http://www.inthelongrun.org/articles/article/brexit-the-view-from-japan-or-the-tokyo-consensus
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,716
    edited August 2018

    Since the United Kingdom chose to leave the EU, a new consensus has emerged amongst Tokyo-based policymakers, such as members of Japan’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs and those close to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, myself included. Call it the 'Tokyo Consensus'. It assumes that, as far as Japan’s national interest is concerned, Brexit may well turn out to be a blessing in disguise. The benefits of Brexit for Japan, which are largely geopolitical, could offset its costs, which are mostly economic. This assumption appears to be shared internationally. Conversations with diplomats and visitors from Australia, New Zealand, India and the US, amongst others, have given me a sense that the 'Tokyo Consensus' may have a wider, Indo-Pacific, application.

    The reasoning behind the Tokyo Consensus goes as follows: Post-Brexit Britain will no longer be able to identify with Europe in the way it did pre-Brexit. A soul-searching Britain will instead seek to rediscover, and reinvest in, an older self-image which holds that, relative to nations on the Continent, Britain is still a great seafaring country with global interests that cover much of the English-speaking world, a remnant of the once glorious empire, be that as it may.


    http://www.inthelongrun.org/articles/article/brexit-the-view-from-japan-or-the-tokyo-consensus

    Read the next paragraphs for what he's angling for specifically.

    I can confirm that the normal response to Brexit is more like the way you'd react to your alcoholic uncle burning your house down. That includes highly on-message media like Fuji TV (Sankei).

    However, I can see how this guy might think it's useful to send a message to a Brexit-supporting government that if the British were to send a bit more military help to keep China in its box, the whole thing would be a triumphant success and they'd totally be respected across the world, definitely.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Read the next paragraphs for what he's angling for specifically.

    I can confirm that the normal response to Brexit is more like the way you'd react to your alcoholic uncle burning your house down. That includes highly on-message media like Fuji TV (Sankei).

    However, I can see how this guy might think it's useful to send a message to a Brexit-supporting government that if the British were to send a bit more military help to keep China in its box, the whole thing would be a triumphant success and they'd totally be respected across the world, definitely.
    The RN has been stepping up its presence in the Far East:

    https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2018/may/03/180503-uk-reaffirms-relationship-with-asia-pacific-partner-japan

    https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2018/august/07/180807-hms-albion-proves-big-in-japan-on-landmark-visit-to-tokyo

    Which may have helped secure the Type 26 Frigate order from Australia:

    https://www.ft.com/content/845e88e0-7ac7-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    One Goodwin tweet Mr Meeks won't reject out of hand:

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1033065563176796161

    Is the "working class" poll based on sub-samples ?
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    HYUFD said:

    Far from it, it will likely be the basis of the Deal agreed next year

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6042765/amp/EU-offer-UK-stay-single-market-goods-without-free-movement.html
    Are you back to supporting May again ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,967

    For the love of God, it is time for these MPs to take a stand.
    But he's a Labour tribalist, and he hates centre parties. He is also near retirement, probably in his last term, and under perpetual pressure from his local party to make way for a Muslim candidate. The worst he'll do is become an independent and then disappear from the scene at the next election - he isn't defecting anywhere or creating any sort of new party. He is too much of a dinosaur to be behind anything new, anyhow; he is the archetype committee timeserver who enjoys too many lunches.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    NEW THREAD
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,967
    edited August 2018

    I sat next to Rolf Harris (a childhood favourite) on a plane once. Charming and affable. The next time I saw him was on the Queen Mary 2 as the police were going through his home in Maidenhead.....

    I listened to a long interview on a Quantas flight about his life ten years ago; at the time I thought he sounded like a really decent guy.

    I also took a wrong turn in Venice some years back, and found Michael Howard, then Tory leader, coming up the alley towards me. But he wasn't going where I was going,
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