politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » At GE2017 six times as many CON voters said Brexit was the dec
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Mortimer said:
Tut tut.TheScreamingEagles said:
He never promoted Zac Goldsmith, Jesse Norman, nor Richard Drax, all Old Etonians.DecrepitJohnL said:
Is it a choice he made or a role he stumbled into simply by being polite? If he were as bright as he makes out, he might at least have made junior minister for paperclips under David Cameron who promoted almost every other Old Etonian in the House.kle4 said:
If that was the choice he made he needs to stop pouting over it - no one forced him to prioritise being the public face and voice of no deal brexiteers over any ambition to be seen as a respected, albeit eccentric constitutionally minded fellow.DecrepitJohnL said:
The word in the lobbies was that JRM wanted to Speaker, and now his Brexit rent-a-quote act (since Farage seems to have stopped answering journalists' phone calls) has put the kybosh on that or any other ambition he might have had.Stark_Dawning said:
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.williamglenn said:
Surely everyone knows that Richard was at Harrow?
Edit: Darn, I sailed past 10k posts without even noticing.
Drax is an Old Etonian according to many sources
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-candidate-richard-drax-changes-435315
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233566/Tory-parliamentary-candidate-Richard-Grosvenor-Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax-called-plain-Richard-Drax-De-toff-Cameron.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/mar/09/smoothies-party-rich-tories-brand
Drax tried to deposh himself, perhaps he thought Harrow might seem more plebish than Eton.
I mean Harrow doesn't even have entrance exams these days.
Only the thick offspring of rich poshos go to Harrow.
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Good. There should be no pinkPulpstar said:
Yes, but it is them that make it a very red line indeed and not the shade of light pink like most of May's others when push and shove come along I think. Unfortunately for May Barnier has doubled down on the 'No extension of the backstop to the whole of the UK' thing - which means she's in an impossible position right now.RobD said:
It's not just the DUP that object to a hard border inside the UK!Bromptonaut said:
Silly me - I forgot our DUP overlords.Bromptonaut said:
Norway for Great Britain.Pulpstar said:
Norway has a 'hard' customs border with Sweden does it not ?kle4 said:
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.grabcocque said:I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
Norway plus CU for NI.
Bish bash bosh job still done.0 -
Again, so far we are still in the union. There is a small chance of a benign outcome, if we go for a very gentle transition. The chances of a benign outcome if ERG get their way are close to zeroSean_F said:
I neither expected sunlit uplands nor disaster. So far, that seems about right.Philip_Thompson said:
So far with the deficit beating projections constantly, full employment etc it is easy and sunlit uplands. The hyperbole of Brexit disaster is about as real as an episode of Star Trek.TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.0 -
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/7223914535997235200 -
Anyone who wants to take their minds of Brexit go and see Mama Mia. Kitsch as hell but brilliant.0
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Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/7223914535997235200 -
Isn't that what Canada has?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/7223914535997235200 -
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I said that a few hours ago.Roger said:Anyone who wants to take their minds of Brexit go and see Mama Mia. Kitsch as hell but brilliant.
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I'm not laughing. The EU offered the UK a CETA+ deal right off the bat, and the UK government refused.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.0 -
Which May got herself into by signing up for the backstop in the December agreement. As far as the EU is concerned the U.K. is now trying to wriggle out of something it agreed to only 6 months ago which will ensure that the rest of the negotiation is carried out in an atmosphere of mutual suspicion and mistrust.Pulpstar said:
Yes, but it is them that make it a very red line indeed and not the shade of light pink like most of May's others when push and shove come along I think. Unfortunately for May Barnier has doubled down on the 'No extension of the backstop to the whole of the UK' thing - which means she's in an impossible position right now.RobD said:
It's not just the DUP that object to a hard border inside the UK!Bromptonaut said:
Silly me - I forgot our DUP overlords.Bromptonaut said:
Norway for Great Britain.Pulpstar said:
Norway has a 'hard' customs border with Sweden does it not ?kle4 said:
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.grabcocque said:I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
Norway plus CU for NI.
Bish bash bosh job still done.0 -
You need to get a life.Mortimer said:
Tut tut.TheScreamingEagles said:
He never promoted Zac Goldsmith, Jesse Norman, nor Richard Drax, all Old Etonians.DecrepitJohnL said:
Is it a choice he made or a role he stumbled into simply by being polite? If he were as bright as he makes out, he might at least have made junior minister for paperclips under David Cameron who promoted almost every other Old Etonian in the House.kle4 said:
If that was the choice he made he needs to stop pouting over it - no one forced him to prioritise being the public face and voice of no deal brexiteers over any ambition to be seen as a respected, albeit eccentric constitutionally minded fellow.DecrepitJohnL said:
The word in the lobbies was that JRM wanted to Speaker, and now his Brexit rent-a-quote act (since Farage seems to have stopped answering journalists' phone calls) has put the kybosh on that or any other ambition he might have had.Stark_Dawning said:
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.williamglenn said:
Surely everyone knows that Richard was at Harrow?
Edit: Darn, I sailed past 10k posts without even noticing.
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The Remain campaign was called Project Fear because it was very similar in its content to what Remainers on here have put today. despite this the British people voted to leave.FF43 said:Things are coming to a head on Brexit now, where the contradictions behind the Leave vote can no longer be hidden. Not sure what how it will exactly play out over the next six months, but it will be a very humiliating experience for the UK and Leave voters in particular.
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Why not combine the two? “I’ve been angry and sad at the things that EU’ve done.”Roger said:Anyone who wants to take their minds of Brexit go and see Mama Mia. Kitsch as hell but brilliant.
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The Canada deal doesn't cover services.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
I mean services isn't important to the UK economy.0 -
RobD said:
You need to get a life.Mortimer said:
Tut tut.TheScreamingEagles said:
He never promoted Zac Goldsmith, Jesse Norman, nor Richard Drax, all Old Etonians.DecrepitJohnL said:
Is it a choice he made or a role he stumbled into simply by being polite? If he were as bright as he makes out, he might at least have made junior minister for paperclips under David Cameron who promoted almost every other Old Etonian in the House.kle4 said:
If that was the choice he made he needs to stop pouting over it - no one forced him to prioritise being the public face and voice of no deal brexiteers over any ambition to be seen as a respected, albeit eccentric constitutionally minded fellow.DecrepitJohnL said:
The word in the lobbies was that JRM wanted to Speaker, and now his Brexit rent-a-quote act (since Farage seems to have stopped answering journalists' phone calls) has put the kybosh on that or any other ambition he might have had.Stark_Dawning said:
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.williamglenn said:
Surely everyone knows that Richard was at Harrow?
Edit: Darn, I sailed past 10k posts without even noticing.
Canvassing with an old Harrovian in my parents’ village was really good fun!0 -
But the essence is the same - free trade with no freedom of movement/budgetary contributions/minimal ECJ oversight (if there is any).TheScreamingEagles said:
The Canada deal doesn't cover services.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
I mean services isn't important to the UK economy.0 -
They find Justin more attractive than Theresa.RobD said:
Isn't that what Canada has?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/7223914535997235200 -
'Cause it didn't cover services.grabcocque said:
I'm not laughing. The EU offered the UK a CETA+ deal right off the bat, and the UK government refused.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.0 -
Leavers on here veer between absurd complacency at the lowest growth rate in the EU and shrill horror that the EU still hasn’t agreed their every preposterous demand.0
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Project Fear has become totemic for the Brexiters because it’s the only thing they have left: that so far, having not even left, that things are not as bad as the Treasury said they would be if we exercised A50 immediately following the vote.
Meanwhile, not a single thing promised by Brexiters has come true. Every aspect of Brexit was and is a lie. And now, not content with the current state of play, Brexiters are dressing up a no deal plunge into chaos as not to be feared or even welcomed.
Brexit is a mental disease.0 -
But Vote Leave said it would cover services.RobD said:
But the essence is the same - free trade with no freedom of movement/budgetary contributions/minimal ECJ oversight (if there is any).TheScreamingEagles said:
The Canada deal doesn't cover services.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
I mean services isn't important to the UK economy.
That's why I said it was undeliverable.0 -
It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Vote Leave said it would cover services.RobD said:
But the essence is the same - free trade with no freedom of movement/budgetary contributions/minimal ECJ oversight (if there is any).TheScreamingEagles said:
The Canada deal doesn't cover services.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
I mean services isn't important to the UK economy.
That's why I said it was undeliverable.0 -
"David Cameron tell what's wrongAlastairMeeks said:
Why not combine the two? “I’ve been angry and sad at the things that EU’ve done.”Roger said:Anyone who wants to take their minds of Brexit go and see Mama Mia. Kitsch as hell but brilliant.
Your MPs don't really want you
In their eyes
You're still in love with the EU"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=natcN0_7q1g0 -
Its cause they dont want any other EU member to leaveRobD said:
It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Vote Leave said it would cover services.RobD said:
But the essence is the same - free trade with no freedom of movement/budgetary contributions/minimal ECJ oversight (if there is any).TheScreamingEagles said:
The Canada deal doesn't cover services.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
I mean services isn't important to the UK economy.
That's why I said it was undeliverable.0 -
It is increasingly clear that the EU powers aren't interested in whatever the UK tries to come up with as a comprise. There was an opportunity to come up with something sensible, but as continue to see the only fault the EU sees with itself is that it needs ever closer union, a bit like when people say communism has never failed it just hasn't been done properly.TheScreamingEagles said:
The Canada deal doesn't cover services.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
I mean services isn't important to the UK economy.
That isn't to say the UK side of things hasn't been crap, but I am not convinced even having a crack team on the case would have made much difference.
In fact, if the EU had been a flexible and sensible (and Cameron had pushed harder) we wouldn't have even got to this stage in the first place, but we ended up with a vote for ever closer union or out.0 -
'cause we haven't left yet.Gardenwalker said:Project Fear has become totemic for the Brexiters because it’s the only thing they have left: that so far, having not even left, that things are not as bad as the Treasury said they would be if we exercised A50 immediately following the vote.
Meanwhile, not a single thing promised by Brexiters has come true. Every aspect of Brexit was and is a lie. And now, not content with the current state of play, Brexiters are dressing up a no deal plunge into chaos as not to be feared or even welcomed.
Brexit is a mental disease.0 -
Look you. All they wanted was INFINITE CAKE for ZERO MONEY.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Vote Leave said it would cover services.
That's why I said it was undeliverable.
What is so unreasonable about that request?0 -
You might try some reading on the difference between an FTA, a Customs Union, and a Single Market.RobD said:
It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Vote Leave said it would cover services.RobD said:
But the essence is the same - free trade with no freedom of movement/budgetary contributions/minimal ECJ oversight (if there is any).TheScreamingEagles said:
The Canada deal doesn't cover services.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
I mean services isn't important to the UK economy.
That's why I said it was undeliverable.0 -
Canada doesn’t have free trade, it has an agreement for freer trade in some areas (and a hard border with EU countries).Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/7223914535997235200 -
The Macron story is truly astonishing and, if the details in this report are correct, could end up affecting him personally as well as politically.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/20/macron-security-officer-alexandre-benalla-in-custody-and-will-be-fired-over-violent-video0 -
In apparently the easiest deal ever. Still waiting for the BMW makers and prosceccp growers to ride to our rescue.RobD said:
'cause we haven't left yet.Gardenwalker said:Project Fear has become totemic for the Brexiters because it’s the only thing they have left: that so far, having not even left, that things are not as bad as the Treasury said they would be if we exercised A50 immediately following the vote.
Meanwhile, not a single thing promised by Brexiters has come true. Every aspect of Brexit was and is a lie. And now, not content with the current state of play, Brexiters are dressing up a no deal plunge into chaos as not to be feared or even welcomed.
Brexit is a mental disease.0 -
Yes. Vote Leave said we would have the first but not the second or third. What's confusing about that?Gardenwalker said:
You might try some reading on the difference between an FTA, a Customs Union, and a Single Market.RobD said:
It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Vote Leave said it would cover services.RobD said:
But the essence is the same - free trade with no freedom of movement/budgetary contributions/minimal ECJ oversight (if there is any).TheScreamingEagles said:
The Canada deal doesn't cover services.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
I mean services isn't important to the UK economy.
That's why I said it was undeliverable.0 -
No, just a political viewpoint you dislike. I don't consider your political outlook a mental disease. It's just one that I disagree with.Gardenwalker said:Project Fear has become totemic for the Brexiters because it’s the only thing they have left: that so far, having not even left, that things are not as bad as the Treasury said they would be if we exercised A50 immediately following the vote.
Meanwhile, not a single thing promised by Brexiters has come true. Every aspect of Brexit was and is a lie. And now, not content with the current state of play, Brexiters are dressing up a no deal plunge into chaos as not to be feared or even welcomed.
Brexit is a mental disease.0 -
If the USA gave the same deal to California that it gives to Canada, what effect do you think it would have on the Californian economy?RobD said:It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.
0 -
They wouldn't be saying Cambridge once they've started looking at trying to buy a house.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Bit confusing what you mean. But could be a boost.williamglenn said:
If the USA gave the same deal to California that it gives to Canada, what effect do you think it would have on the Californian economy?RobD said:It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.
0 -
As Mr Grabcoque points out they'd have accepted Norway and offered us Canada.FrancisUrquhart said:
It is increasingly clear that the EU powers aren't interested in whatever the UK tries to come up with as a comprise. There was an opportunity to come up with something sensible, but as continue to see the only fault the EU sees with itself is that it needs ever closer union, a bit like when people say communism has never failed it just hasn't been done properly.TheScreamingEagles said:
The Canada deal doesn't cover services.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
I mean services isn't important to the UK economy.
That isn't to say the UK side of things hasn't been crap, but I am not convinced even having a crack team on the case would have made much difference.
In fact, if the EU had been a flexible and sensible (and Cameron had pushed harder) we wouldn't have even got to this stage in the first place, but we ended up with a vote for ever closer union or out.
But neither of those would reconcile the promises made by Leave.0 -
+1000000Gardenwalker said:Project Fear has become totemic for the Brexiters because it’s the only thing they have left: that so far, having not even left, that things are not as bad as the Treasury said they would be if we exercised A50 immediately following the vote.
Meanwhile, not a single thing promised by Brexiters has come true. Every aspect of Brexit was and is a lie. And now, not content with the current state of play, Brexiters are dressing up a no deal plunge into chaos as not to be feared or even welcomed.
And the UK is the bipolar patientGardenwalker said:Brexit is a mental disease.
0 -
I'd rather have my toenails extracted through my nostrils.Roger said:Anyone who wants to take their minds of Brexit go and see Mama Mia. Kitsch as hell but brilliant.
0 -
I think you are confused. You are suggesting that the EU won’t offer us an FTA without FOM (like Canada), but that is not the EU’s position.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes. Vote Leave said we would have the first but not the second or third. What's confusing about that?Gardenwalker said:
You might try some reading on the difference between an FTA, a Customs Union, and a Single Market.RobD said:
It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.TheScreamingEagles said:RobD said:
But the essence is the same - free trade with no freedom of movement/budgetary contributions/minimal ECJ oversight (if there is any).TheScreamingEagles said:
The Canada deal doesn't cover services.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
I mean services isn't important to the UK economy.0 -
LOL! I agree/JosiasJessop said:
I'd rather have my toenails extracted through my nostrils.Roger said:Anyone who wants to take their minds of Brexit go and see Mama Mia. Kitsch as hell but brilliant.
0 -
What is unreasonable is they forgot to summon the ghost of David Hilbert to set up the Infinite Bakerygrabcocque said:
Look you. All they wanted was INFINITE CAKE for ZERO MONEY.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Vote Leave said it would cover services.
That's why I said it was undeliverable.
What is so unreasonable about that request?0 -
This is a question I've often wrestled with. I wonder if it takes affordability into account - I mean, I'd like to live in London, I suppose, but realistically to live in a suburb as nice as the one I do in Manchester I'd only be able to aford to live in a bedsit. Which makes it a rather less attractive proposition. Cambridge and Brighton fall into this category too.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cambridge is very nice, and all that, but has neither hills nor coastline.
I'm surprised Manchester ranks so high, even as someone from Manchester who is very happy here - I'm surprised it is as popular as all thar.
My favourites on the list would be Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Bristol, Newcastle, Liverpool, Edinburgh and Glasgow, in that order. Manchester basically wins because I'm already here, along with friends and family, though it would still be in the top 8 even if I was starting from scratch.
0 -
For a start it would mean border infrastructure like this:Philip_Thompson said:
Bit confusing what you mean. But could be a boost.williamglenn said:
If the USA gave the same deal to California that it gives to Canada, what effect do you think it would have on the Californian economy?RobD said:It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.
0 -
Is the UK as integrated into the EU's economy as California is?williamglenn said:
If the USA gave the same deal to California that it gives to Canada, what effect do you think it would have on the Californian economy?RobD said:It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.
0 -
The EU warned us many times that there was no soft Brexit, only IN or OUTFrancisUrquhart said:That isn't to say the UK side of things hasn't been crap, but I am not convinced even having a crack team on the case would have made much difference.
I agree with that. The EU does share part of the blame for allowing circumstances to arise which the Brexiteers were able to capitalise on, but Brexit is still largely a self-inflicted wound.FrancisUrquhart said:In fact, if the EU had been a flexible and sensible (and Cameron had pushed harder) we wouldn't have even got to this stage in the first place, but we ended up with a vote for ever closer union or out.
0 -
And I doubt Canada has to give them £40bn as well.RobD said:
It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.TheScreamingEagles said:
But Vote Leave said it would cover services.RobD said:
But the essence is the same - free trade with no freedom of movement/budgetary contributions/minimal ECJ oversight (if there is any).TheScreamingEagles said:
The Canada deal doesn't cover services.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet have been achieved by Canada. Funny that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, Vote Leave's proposals were undeliverable, some of us said so at the time.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed.twistedfirestopper3 said:
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
I mean services isn't important to the UK economy.
That's why I said it was undeliverable.
They don't want to do a deal with us so we'll just have to do as best as we can unfortunately. It will be painful but at least we'll be permanently rid of turds like Barnier holding power over us.0 -
They knew we couldn't accept the Canada-style deal, not because of the Leave promises, but because it would have massively limited London future as a financial centre.TheScreamingEagles said:
As Mr Grabcoque points out they'd have accepted Norway and offered us Canada.
But neither of those would reconcile the promises made by Leave.
Screams of Labour anti-semitism proposals, looks we are being nice, but you can see scream Zio at people and thats fine.0 -
There is a soft Brexit.
In involves staying in the single market via EFTA (Norway) or a bespoke arrangement (Switzerland).
The reason it is soft is it that it retains all the trading benefits of a single market.
Any FTA is by definition inferior to a single market at least when it comes to ease of and ability to trade.0 -
Is that customs or immigration control?williamglenn said:
For a start it would mean border infrastructure like this:Philip_Thompson said:
Bit confusing what you mean. But could be a boost.williamglenn said:
If the USA gave the same deal to California that it gives to Canada, what effect do you think it would have on the Californian economy?RobD said:It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.
0 -
Paint your toenails instead. Very therapeuticJosiasJessop said:
I'd rather have my toenails extracted through my nostrils.Roger said:Anyone who wants to take their minds of Brexit go and see Mama Mia. Kitsch as hell but brilliant.
0 -
The hypothesis is a Canada style deal, so California would get the same treatment for both.RobD said:
Is that customs or immigration control?williamglenn said:
For a start it would mean border infrastructure like this:Philip_Thompson said:
Bit confusing what you mean. But could be a boost.williamglenn said:
If the USA gave the same deal to California that it gives to Canada, what effect do you think it would have on the Californian economy?RobD said:It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.
0 -
What about Coventry, Leicester, Sunderland, Wolverhampton & Bradford ?Cookie said:
This is a question I've often wrestled with. I wonder if it takes affordability into account - I mean, I'd like to live in London, I suppose, but realistically to live in a suburb as nice as the one I do in Manchester I'd only be able to aford to live in a bedsit. Which makes it a rather less attractive proposition. Cambridge and Brighton fall into this category too.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cambridge is very nice, and all that, but has neither hills nor coastline.
I'm surprised Manchester ranks so high, even as someone from Manchester who is very happy here - I'm surprised it is as popular as all thar.
My favourites on the list would be Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Bristol, Newcastle, Liverpool, Edinburgh and Glasgow, in that order. Manchester basically wins because I'm already here, along with friends and family, though it would still be in the top 8 even if I was starting from scratch.0 -
Too full of Brexiters.Pulpstar said:
What about Coventry, Leicester, Sunderland, Wolverhampton & Bradford ?Cookie said:
This is a question I've often wrestled with. I wonder if it takes affordability into account - I mean, I'd like to live in London, I suppose, but realistically to live in a suburb as nice as the one I do in Manchester I'd only be able to aford to live in a bedsit. Which makes it a rather less attractive proposition. Cambridge and Brighton fall into this category too.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cambridge is very nice, and all that, but has neither hills nor coastline.
I'm surprised Manchester ranks so high, even as someone from Manchester who is very happy here - I'm surprised it is as popular as all thar.
My favourites on the list would be Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Bristol, Newcastle, Liverpool, Edinburgh and Glasgow, in that order. Manchester basically wins because I'm already here, along with friends and family, though it would still be in the top 8 even if I was starting from scratch.
Would *you* like to move to a psychopolis?0 -
Desperate times call for desperate measures. I suggest Theresa gets into talks with the opposition parties. They can then agree to appoint her as a 'National Prime Minister' with the full support of the majority of the House. That way, even in the ERG steps in and non-confidences her as Tory leader, she can stay on as PM. That would strengthen her hand, impress the EU and make her look a true patriot!0
-
I'm second guessing the people who carried out the survey here, but with the exception of Leicester, those are all places in the travel-to-work areas of places which ARE on the list. So relocating your job to Wolverhampton or Birmingham wouldn't be all that different in terms of where you might choose to live.Pulpstar said:
What about Coventry, Leicester, Sunderland, Wolverhampton & Bradford ?Cookie said:
This is a question I've often wrestled with. I wonder if it takes affordability into account - I mean, I'd like to live in London, I suppose, but realistically to live in a suburb as nice as the one I do in Manchester I'd only be able to aford to live in a bedsit. Which makes it a rather less attractive proposition. Cambridge and Brighton fall into this category too.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cambridge is very nice, and all that, but has neither hills nor coastline.
I'm surprised Manchester ranks so high, even as someone from Manchester who is very happy here - I'm surprised it is as popular as all thar.
My favourites on the list would be Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Bristol, Newcastle, Liverpool, Edinburgh and Glasgow, in that order. Manchester basically wins because I'm already here, along with friends and family, though it would still be in the top 8 even if I was starting from scratch.
For example, if I were offered a job in Leeds, I would probably choose to live in Illkley, which is within the city of Bradford.0 -
Well at least Barnier has said he can work with elements of May's white paper even if he has concerns to ensure it does not undermine the integrity of the single market0
-
I think that last para goes a long way to explaining why we are where we are. IGardenwalker said:
I actually started the campaign as a sceptic, if perhaps undecided about Leaving. Like many, I was disappointed by Cameron’s negotiations. I also retain a long term mistrust of EU governance and FOM arrangements.kle4 said:
I expected it to be difficult and to a degree chaotic. I certainly underestimated just how poorly even a weaker hand would be played however, and thus how poorly preparation would go - even up to the end of 2017, a degree of optimism was not unreasonable, but even now, July 20th 2018, the governing party are still riven on the issue, I truly never expected that, I really thought even in a chaotic period they could sort their sh*t out given 2 years to do so. How very wrong I was.Gardenwalker said:
The EFTA crew (@rcs1000 of this parish and others) are as to blame as anyone else.TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
They assumed Brexit would be executed reasonably, and failed to calculate that Brexit represented something inherently chaotic.
Were it not for having put my view on record on PB, I've no doubt I would have wavered and gone remain in the voting booth.
It’s just that as I looked in more detail into the case for Brexit I realised that the status quo was infinitely better than any Brexit possibly on offer, and that many of my unchallenged Euro-scepticisms were utterly baseless.
As many have said, Brexit wasn’t built in a day, it was the result of 25 years of anti-EU propaganda circulated largely by the right-leaning press.
0 -
Son Heung-min: Tottenham forward signs new five-year contract
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44902811
They said during the WC coverage he has to do national service back in Korea sometime in the next few years. How's that going to work out?0 -
And she can feed Barnier some bacon from the plethora of pigs flying overhead.Stark_Dawning said:Desperate times call for desperate measures. I suggest Theresa gets into talks with the opposition parties. They can then agree to appoint her as a 'National Prime Minister' with the full support of the majority of the House. That way, even in the ERG steps in and non-confidences her as Tory leader, she can stay on as PM. That would strengthen her hand, impress the EU and make her look a true patriot!
0 -
Well, quite. So given the choice between living in Royston and commuting to Cambridge, or living in Beverley (the lovely Yorkshire market town, not the PB poster) and commuting to Hull, Cambridge suddenly looks a lot less appealing. Even though I concur with TSE's assessment of its university.rottenborough said:
They wouldn't be saying Cambridge once they've started looking at trying to buy a house.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Indeed. That was the choice we debated a couple of years ago.Gardenwalker said:There is a soft Brexit.
In involves staying in the single market via EFTA (Norway) or a bespoke arrangement (Switzerland).
The reason it is soft is it that it retains all the trading benefits of a single market.
Any FTA is by definition inferior to a single market at least when it comes to ease of and ability to trade.0 -
New thread...0
-
Corbyn has ZERO need to agree to those terms.Stark_Dawning said:Desperate times call for desperate measures. I suggest Theresa gets into talks with the opposition parties. They can then agree to appoint her as a 'National Prime Minister' with the full support of the majority of the House. That way, even in the ERG steps in and non-confidences her as Tory leader, she can stay on as PM. That would strengthen her hand, impress the EU and make her look a true patriot!
The UK crashing out of the EU, economic chaos and the Tories getting the blame, leading to a hard left Labour government is pretty close to his dream scenario.
Why would he possibly want to bail May out?0 -
Maybe Corbyn could lead a government of national unity?grabcocque said:
Corbyn has ZERO need to agree to those terms.Stark_Dawning said:Desperate times call for desperate measures. I suggest Theresa gets into talks with the opposition parties. They can then agree to appoint her as a 'National Prime Minister' with the full support of the majority of the House. That way, even in the ERG steps in and non-confidences her as Tory leader, she can stay on as PM. That would strengthen her hand, impress the EU and make her look a true patriot!
The UK crashing out of the EU, economic chaos and the Tories getting the blame, leading to a hard left Labour government is pretty close to his dream scenario.
Why would he possibly want to bail May out?0 -
Gee that brings back memories. Surrey, BC, far Southern suburbs of Vancouver on the way to Blaine, Wash.williamglenn said:
For a start it would mean border infrastructure like this:Philip_Thompson said:
Bit confusing what you mean. But could be a boost.williamglenn said:
If the USA gave the same deal to California that it gives to Canada, what effect do you think it would have on the Californian economy?RobD said:It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.
Have crossed there many, many times.
Allow 4 hours is recommended, although you can often do it in much less espcially at night.
The idea there is no real border is a total myth.0 -
Or perhaps people just didn't much like the way that the EU was developing over that period?OllyT said:
I think that last para goes a long way to explaining why we are where we are. IGardenwalker said:
I actually started the campaign as a sceptic, if perhaps undecided about Leaving. Like many, I was disappointed by Cameron’s negotiations. I also retain a long term mistrust of EU governance and FOM arrangements.kle4 said:
I expected it to be difficult and to a degree chaotic. I certainly underestimated just how poorly even a weaker hand would be played however, and thus how poorly preparation would go - even up to the end of 2017, a degree of optimism was not unreasonable, but even now, July 20th 2018, the governing party are still riven on the issue, I truly never expected that, I really thought even in a chaotic period they could sort their sh*t out given 2 years to do so. How very wrong I was.Gardenwalker said:
The EFTA crew (@rcs1000 of this parish and others) are as to blame as anyone else.TheScreamingEagles said:
You forgot ‘The will of the people’grabcocque said:
No deal isn't going to happenTheScreamingEagles said:
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
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It's a price worth paying.
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
They assumed Brexit would be executed reasonably, and failed to calculate that Brexit represented something inherently chaotic.
Were it not for having put my view on record on PB, I've no doubt I would have wavered and gone remain in the voting booth.
It’s just that as I looked in more detail into the case for Brexit I realised that the status quo was infinitely better than any Brexit possibly on offer, and that many of my unchallenged Euro-scepticisms were utterly baseless.
As many have said, Brexit wasn’t built in a day, it was the result of 25 years of anti-EU propaganda circulated largely by the right-leaning press.0 -
Except that would not happen, most likely many Labour Remainers would defect to the LDs while hard Brexiteers return from UKIP to the Toriesgrabcocque said:
Corbyn has ZERO need to agree to those terms.Stark_Dawning said:Desperate times call for desperate measures. I suggest Theresa gets into talks with the opposition parties. They can then agree to appoint her as a 'National Prime Minister' with the full support of the majority of the House. That way, even in the ERG steps in and non-confidences her as Tory leader, she can stay on as PM. That would strengthen her hand, impress the EU and make her look a true patriot!
The UK crashing out of the EU, economic chaos and the Tories getting the blame, leading to a hard left Labour government is pretty close to his dream scenario.
Why would he possibly want to bail May out?0 -
http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2017/july/tradoc_155717.pdf
considering the language used by the EU here when discussing trade with Japan can anybody explain to me why the language is so different with the UK - agreeing to use international standards for cars is deemed a positive for Japan but stupid and impossible for the UK for
example -
free trade with Japan will bring huge benefits but for the UK this can’t be discussed without FOM etc - I am genuinely puzzled0 -
NEW THREAD
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If any "Labour Remainers" defecting to the LDs, they would have done so already in the 2 years that Jezza has been party leader. It's not going to happen.HYUFD said:
Except that would not happen, most likely many Labour Remainers would defect to the LDs while hard Brexiteers return from UKIP to the Toriesgrabcocque said:
Corbyn has ZERO need to agree to those terms.Stark_Dawning said:Desperate times call for desperate measures. I suggest Theresa gets into talks with the opposition parties. They can then agree to appoint her as a 'National Prime Minister' with the full support of the majority of the House. That way, even in the ERG steps in and non-confidences her as Tory leader, she can stay on as PM. That would strengthen her hand, impress the EU and make her look a true patriot!
The UK crashing out of the EU, economic chaos and the Tories getting the blame, leading to a hard left Labour government is pretty close to his dream scenario.
Why would he possibly want to bail May out?
More likely that the Labour leadership will shift to a Single Market EEA type position at the conference. Europe is simply not the touchstone issue for Jezza, or even for Liz Kendall, that it is for Tories.0 -
Or VinceSean_F said:
Maybe Corbyn could lead a government of national unity?grabcocque said:
Corbyn has ZERO need to agree to those terms.Stark_Dawning said:Desperate times call for desperate measures. I suggest Theresa gets into talks with the opposition parties. They can then agree to appoint her as a 'National Prime Minister' with the full support of the majority of the House. That way, even in the ERG steps in and non-confidences her as Tory leader, she can stay on as PM. That would strengthen her hand, impress the EU and make her look a true patriot!
The UK crashing out of the EU, economic chaos and the Tories getting the blame, leading to a hard left Labour government is pretty close to his dream scenario.
Why would he possibly want to bail May out? 0 -
It has already started to happen a bit, see Lewisham East and the longer we remain outside the single market post Brexit while Labour supports staying outside the single market, the more likely further defections from Labour to the LDs will be.Foxy said:
If any "Labour Remainers" defecting to the LDs, they would have done so already in the 2 years that Jezza has been party leader. It's not going to happen.HYUFD said:
Except that would not happen, most likely many Labour Remainers would defect to the LDs while hard Brexiteers return from UKIP to the Toriesgrabcocque said:
Corbyn has ZERO need to agree to those terms.Stark_Dawning said:Desperate times call for desperate measures. I suggest Theresa gets into talks with the opposition parties. They can then agree to appoint her as a 'National Prime Minister' with the full support of the majority of the House. That way, even in the ERG steps in and non-confidences her as Tory leader, she can stay on as PM. That would strengthen her hand, impress the EU and make her look a true patriot!
The UK crashing out of the EU, economic chaos and the Tories getting the blame, leading to a hard left Labour government is pretty close to his dream scenario.
Why would he possibly want to bail May out?
More likely that the Labour leadership will shift to a Single Market EEA type position at the conference. Europe is simply not the touchstone issue for Jezza, or even for Liz Kendall, that it is for Tories.
Corbyn has of course made clear he is ideologically opposed to staying in the single market as it would disrespect the Leave vote and block his nationalisation plans so you are completely wrong on that unless someone like Umunna becomes Labour leader0 -
Been following the attempt to put a vote on splitting California into 3 new states (banned by the State Court). Seems that from being virtually bankrupt a few years ago, the present administration stopped the tax breaks for the rich and started taxing big business properly, and from being in severe deficit, it is now very much in the black. The result, California is now the 5th largest economy in the world, still growing and is now supporting all those central Red Trump voting states. Oops! Wonder what would happen if the UK government copied this radical idea...Philip_Thompson said:
Bit confusing what you mean. But could be a boost.williamglenn said:
If the USA gave the same deal to California that it gives to Canada, what effect do you think it would have on the Californian economy?RobD said:It's funny how the EU are able to do a deal with Canada that doesn't include freedom of movement but when it comes to the UK they protest that their four freedoms are indivisible.
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