politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brexit equivocator Corbyn isn’t doing too badly with Remainers
Comments
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Bev you're back!Beverley_C said:
He is obviously slower than I thought .....williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
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Yes. And would probably lead to Corbyn *winning* the subsequent election.Big_G_NorthWales said:
electionHYUFD said:
If they were going to go Tory Remain seats likely went Labour or LD in 2017 when May backed hard Brexit, at least in theory, next time no deal could well see some Labour Remain seats go LD and some Labour Leave seats going Torykle4 said:HYUFD said:
Nope as 408 out of 650 Westminster seats voted Leave, indeed the Tories have a majority of Leave seats just like Labour, just Labour also has a higher percentage of Remain seatskle4 said:
Most, not all, and in the right places that will mean many lost seats.HYUFD said:
Except you ignore the fact you are a minority in the current Tory Party, most Tories and most Tory seats back hard BrexitBig_G_NorthWales said:
I doubt the party will split but if JRM engineers a VNOC in the government then the prospects are that the party would be decimated and lots of these Brexiteers will lose their seats even though they fought against a soft BrexitHYUFD said:
Don't you realise Chuka Umunna has been talking to Anna Soubry for months about forming a new SDP style party as he cannot stand Corbyn and his socialism and lack of support for the single market much longer?kle4 said:
I think you underestimate that Labour will draw strength from the Tory weakness. A tory split would ensure Labour will win, and we know that the naysayers to Corbyn still back a Labour government under Corbyn to anything else (except Woodcock). Knowing he will win because of a Tory split will make them more inclined to stick together, not less.HYUFD said:chloe said:
The Conservative Party will surely split. The two sides are irreconcilable and I say this having voted for them in the past.kle4 said:One fear I have is that even, someone, May gets a version of her plan through so we at least get some deal, even a bad one, there is clearly so much anger in the Tory party over it that whoever wins the leadership next time will probably do so on a promise to change everything about it, so the whole damn thing will just go on for even more years.
The latter two have more in common with each other thsn their current party membership
Brexit is Midas in reverse: it turns everything to shit - our economy, political stability and good governance, our global influence and our standing in the world.0 -
The Country has to stop this madness. The HOC need to back May or seek a second vote.dixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
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No you do not comprehend the fact most Leavers voted Leave to regain sovereignty and reduce immigration. Deny respecting those aims and there will be hell to pay, as seen by the rising UKIP vote already.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do not seem to comprehend just how bad a no deal would be especially in the short termHYUFD said:
If they were going to go Tory Remain seats likely went Labour or LD g Torykle4 said:
I didn't say they didn't. Not everyone who voted leave backs a no deal Brexit. May's deal might lose the tories more seats, but no deal will still loSE them some too.HYUFD said:
Nope as 408 out of 650 Westminster seats voted Leave, indeed the Tories have a majority of Leave seats just like Labour, just Labour also has a higher percentage of Remain seatskle4 said:
Most, not all, and in the right places that will mean many lost seats.HYUFD said:
Except you ignore the fact you are a minority in the current Tory Party, most Tories and most Tory seats back hard BrexitBig_G_NorthWales said:
I doubt the party will split but if JRM engineers a VNOC in the government then the prospects are that the party would be decimated and lots of these Brexiteers will lose their seats even though they fought against a soft BrexitHYUFD said:
Don't you realise Chuka Umunna has been talking to Anna Soubry for months about forming a new SDP style party as he cannot stand Corbyn and his socialism and lack of support for the single market much longer?kle4 said:
I think you underestimate that Labour will draw strength ess.HYUFD said:chloe said:
The Conservative Party will surely split. The two sides are irreconcilable and I say this having voted for them in the past.kle4 said:One fear I have is that even, someone, May gets a version of her plan through so we at least get some deal, even a bad one, there is clearly so much anger in the Tory party over it that whoever wins the leadership next time will probably do so on a promise to change everything about it, so the whole damn thing will just go on for even more years.
The latter two have more in common with each other thsn their current party membership
Collapsed pound and market, capital flight and cancelled investment, indeed no difference to Corbyn wnning an election
As I have also said it is in the EU's court, if they offer us a FTA fine, if not no deal it is0 -
Corbyn backs hard Brexit in all but name too. He also opposes staying in the single market as a matter of ideologyGardenwalker said:
Yes. And would probably lead to Corbyn *winning* the subsequent election.Big_G_NorthWales said:
electionHYUFD said:
If they were going to go Tory Remain seats likely went Labour or LD in 2017 when May backed hard Brexit, at least in theory, next time no deal could well see some Labour Remain seats go LD and some Labour Leave seats going Torykle4 said:HYUFD said:
Nope as 408 out of 650 Westminster seats voted Leave, indeed the Tories have a majority of Leave seats just like Labour, just Labour also has a higher percentage of Remain seatskle4 said:
Most, not all, and in the right places that will mean many lost seats.HYUFD said:
Except you ignore the fact you are a minority in the current Tory Party, most Tories and most Tory seats back hard BrexitBig_G_NorthWales said:
I doubt the party will split but if JRM engineers a VNOC in the government oft BrexitHYUFD said:
Don't you realise Chuka Umunna has been talking to Anna Soubry for months about forming a new SDP style party as he cannot stand Corbyn and his socialism and lack of support for the single market much longer?kle4 said:
I think you underestimate that Labour will draw strength from the Tory weakness. A tory split would ensure Labour will win, and we know that the naysayers to Corbyn still back a Labour government under Corbyn to anything else (except Woodcock). Knowing he will win because of a Tory split will make them more inclined to stick together, not less.HYUFD said:chloe said:
The Conservative Party will surely split. The two sides are irreconcilable and I say this having voted for them in the past.kle4 said:One fear I have is that even, someone, May gets a version of her plan through so we at least get some deal, even a bad one, there is clearly so much anger in the Tory party over it that whoever wins the leadership next time will probably do so on a promise to change everything about it, so the whole damn thing will just go on for even more years.
The latter two have more in common with each other thsn their current party membership
Brexit is Midas in reverse: it turns everything to shit - our economy, political stability and good governance, our global influence and our standing in the world.0 -
Big G, you’re where I was 18 months ago.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The Country has to stop this madness. The HOC need to back May or seek a second vote.dixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
Through advanced meditation and some modest capital reallocation I’ve learned to, “Stop Worrying and Love Brexit”. After all, it’s a ringside seat at the most bizarre act of self immolation in the Western Europe since the war.
Historians will ponder this insanity forever...0 -
William Glenn is a Euro Federalist ideologist, pragmatism does not enter his worldview eitherdixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
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Hell to pay? For the Conservative Party perhaps, but not everyone cares what happens to the Tory party.HYUFD said:No you do not comprehend the fact most Leavers voted Leave to regain sovereignty and reduce immigration. Deny respecting those aims and there will be hell to pay, as seen by the rising UKIP vote already.
For most people, most of the time, employment, food on the table and a stable economy matter more than sovereignty. If you go hungry, sovereignty does not keep you warm or fed.
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You mean a Europe filled with populist anti migration and anti austerity parties and a US led by Trump with a Democratic party increasingly taken over by Sanders loyalistsGardenwalker said:
Big G, you’re where I was 18 months ago.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The Country has to stop this madness. The HOC need to back May or seek a second vote.dixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
Through advanced meditation and some modest capital reallocation I’ve learned to, “Stop Worrying and Love Brexit”. After all, it’s a ringside seat at the most bizarre act of self immolation in the Western Europe since the war.
Historians will ponder this insanity forever...0 -
We all have temporary abberationsSunil_Prasannan said:
Bev you're back!Beverley_C said:
He is obviously slower than I thought .....williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
I was nosey enough to wonder how you were all coping with the Chequers situation. Not much change seemingly0 -
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years0 -
Except 17 million voted Leave more than have ever voted Tory or Labour at any general election since the war.Beverley_C said:
Hell to pay? For the Conservative Party perhaps, but not everyone cares what happens to the Tory party.HYUFD said:No you do not comprehend the fact most Leavers voted Leave to regain sovereignty and reduce immigration. Deny respecting those aims and there will be hell to pay, as seen by the rising UKIP vote already.
For most people, most of the time, employment, food on the table and a stable economy matter more than sovereignty. If you go hungry, sovereignty does not keep you warm or fed.
It was not just Tories who voted to regain sovereignty and control of their borders0 -
https://twitter.com/brfreed/status/1017537070896701440?s=21
They gave him a Trump England shirt oh my word0 -
Hopefully we can draw back from the abyss before it is too lateGardenwalker said:
Big G, you’re where I was 18 months ago.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The Country has to stop this madness. The HOC need to back May or seek a second vote.dixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
Through advanced meditation and some modest capital reallocation I’ve learned to, “Stop Worrying and Love Brexit”. After all, it’s a ringside seat at the most bizarre act of self immolation in the Western Europe since the war.
Historians will ponder this insanity forever...0 -
Except Brexit appears to offer less sovereignty in any meaningful sense and we already had control of borders through Schengen.HYUFD said:
Except 17 million voted Leave more than have ever voted Tory or Labour at any general election since the war.Beverley_C said:
Hell to pay? For the Conservative Party perhaps, but not everyone cares what happens to the Tory party.HYUFD said:No you do not comprehend the fact most Leavers voted Leave to regain sovereignty and reduce immigration. Deny respecting those aims and there will be hell to pay, as seen by the rising UKIP vote already.
For most people, most of the time, employment, food on the table and a stable economy matter more than sovereignty. If you go hungry, sovereignty does not keep you warm or fed.
It was not just Tories who voted to regain sovereignty and control of their borders
17 million were hoaxed.0 -
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter0 -
Pot. Kettle.HYUFD said:
William Glenn is a Euro Federalist ideologist, pragmatism does not enter his worldview eitherdixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
Pragmatism does not pollute your posts either Mr HYUFD. You come across to me as something of an ideologue.
Sorry ...
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Anecdotally, an awful lot of acquaintances who aren't usually very political seem to be planning to go to the Trump demo tomorrow (I'm not - just too busy). I suspect it'll be unusually big.0
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What’s the big deal? Didn’t May get a similar gift from the Belgian PM?The_Apocalypse said:https://twitter.com/brfreed/status/1017537070896701440?s=21
They gave him a Trump England shirt oh my word0 -
I care for my party and time has come to call for a stop to this madnessBeverley_C said:
Hell to pay? For the Conservative Party perhaps, but not everyone cares what happens to the Tory party.HYUFD said:No you do not comprehend the fact most Leavers voted Leave to regain sovereignty and reduce immigration. Deny respecting those aims and there will be hell to pay, as seen by the rising UKIP vote already.
For most people, most of the time, employment, food on the table and a stable economy matter more than sovereignty. If you go hungry, sovereignty does not keep you warm or fed.
May's way or remain0 -
No we didn't thanks to Blair and his lack of transition controls.Gardenwalker said:
Except Brexit appears to offer less sovereignty in any meaningful sense and we already had control of borders through Schengen.HYUFD said:
Except 17 million voted Leave more than have ever voted Tory or Labour at any general election since the war.Beverley_C said:
Hell to pay? For the Conservative Party perhaps, but not everyone cares what happens to the Tory party.HYUFD said:No you do not comprehend the fact most Leavers voted Leave to regain sovereignty and reduce immigration. Deny respecting those aims and there will be hell to pay, as seen by the rising UKIP vote already.
For most people, most of the time, employment, food on the table and a stable economy matter more than sovereignty. If you go hungry, sovereignty does not keep you warm or fed.
It was not just Tories who voted to regain sovereignty and control of their borders
17 million were hoaxed.
The Leave prospectus Brexit has not yet been tried, just a May brokered fudge0 -
William Glenn is at least consistent.Beverley_C said:
Pot. Kettle.HYUFD said:
William Glenn is a Euro Federalist ideologist, pragmatism does not enter his worldview eitherdixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
Pragmatism does not pollute your posts either Mr HYUFD. You come across to me as something of an ideologue.
Sorry ...
HYUFD swivels about like a contortionist doing the jitterbug.0 -
She did, I think the Croatian President gave her one as well. But Trump is not exactly popular, while the England team are....RobD said:
What’s the big deal? Didn’t May get a similar gift from the Belgian PM?The_Apocalypse said:https://twitter.com/brfreed/status/1017537070896701440?s=21
They gave him a Trump England shirt oh my word0 -
Of course I am an ideologue in part, I have never denied that.Beverley_C said:
Pot. Kettle.HYUFD said:
William Glenn is a Euro Federalist ideologist, pragmatism does not enter his worldview eitherdixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
Pragmatism does not pollute your posts either Mr HYUFD. You come across to me as something of an ideologue.
Sorry ...
As Tony Benn said he respected Thatcher even as he disagreed with her on everything as she was at least 'a signpost not a weathervane.'
Pragmatism is needed but without ideology we are all weathervane!0 -
Like the hoaxed 17 million you confuse border control, freedom to work, and freedom of movement.HYUFD said:
No we didn't thanks to Blair and his lack of transition controls.Gardenwalker said:
Except Brexit appears to offer less sovereignty in any meaningful sense and we already had control of borders through Schengen.HYUFD said:
Except 17 million voted Leave more than have ever voted Tory or Labour at any general election since the war.Beverley_C said:
Hell to pay? For the Conservative Party perhaps, but not everyone cares what happens to the Tory party.HYUFD said:No you do not comprehend the fact most Leavers voted Leave to regain sovereignty and reduce immigration. Deny respecting those aims and there will be hell to pay, as seen by the rising UKIP vote already.
For most people, most of the time, employment, food on the table and a stable economy matter more than sovereignty. If you go hungry, sovereignty does not keep you warm or fed.
It was not just Tories who voted to regain sovereignty and control of their borders
17 million were hoaxed.
The Leave prospectus Brexit has not yet been tried, just a May brokered fudge
We have always had control of our borders.0 -
Portillo calls deal 'a dreadful betrayal' and says he would have quit Cabinet as a result. Parliament will pass the deal but the Tories then must get rid of May and a new leader in not stained by the deal before the next general election0
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I cannot see how we avoid "Leave", not at this stage with both main parties seemingly supporting it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I care for my party and time has come to call for a stop to this madnessBeverley_C said:
Hell to pay? For the Conservative Party perhaps, but not everyone cares what happens to the Tory party.HYUFD said:No you do not comprehend the fact most Leavers voted Leave to regain sovereignty and reduce immigration. Deny respecting those aims and there will be hell to pay, as seen by the rising UKIP vote already.
For most people, most of the time, employment, food on the table and a stable economy matter more than sovereignty. If you go hungry, sovereignty does not keep you warm or fed.
May's way or remain
I understand you care about the party you put so much effort into. I, never having been a party member of any party, care less about them and more about keeping things stable and safe and prosperous and I will happily sacrifice any political group that seems to be acting against those objectives.
I have to ask, in all serious, is the Tory party of today the same beast as the Tory party over the last 50 years? The answer is "no". This lot are a shambolic shower more reminiscent of Labour in its darkest days.0 -
I have always been a conservative as was my Father working in the cotton industry in Lancashire and the ethos of hard work, family, honesty, and being fair to those you employ are my values together with low tax and non intrusive government.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
I am sorry about the hard Brexit right causing chaos but I would, like a lot of labour supporters, find it hard to leave and will fight on to hopefully see a sensible pro business and socially aware conservative party again0 -
Why would Parliament pass such a “dreadful betrayal”?HYUFD said:Portillo calls deal 'a dreadful betrayal' and says he would have quit Cabinet as a result. Parliament will pass the deal but the Tories then must get rid of May and a new leader in not stained by the deal before the next general election
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Gardenwalker said:
William Glenn is at least consistent.Beverley_C said:
Pot. Kettle.HYUFD said:
William Glenn is a Euro Federalist ideologist, pragmatism does not enter his worldview eitherdixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
Pragmatism does not pollute your posts either Mr HYUFD. You come across to me as something of an ideologue.
Sorry ...
HYUFD swivels about like a contortionist doing the jitterbug. 0 -
Yes. There are only 3 options now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The Country has to stop this madness. The HOC need to back May or seek a second vote.dixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
1. Remain. We can't do that. We would have to admit the whole thing has been a ghastly error, and beg for forgiveness. Wouldn't comply with the vote either. The EU wouldn't have to agree either.
2. Crash Brexit. We have done zero preparation for that one. And there isn't much time. The effects would be pronounced.
3. May's proposal.
Like it or not, 3 is the only sane option. The others are fantasies.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVkUvmDQ3HYSunil_Prasannan said:
Bev you're back!Beverley_C said:
He is obviously slower than I thought .....williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
Guess who's back, back again
Bevy's back, tell a friend
Guess who's back, guess who's back?
Guess who's back, guess who's back?
Guess who's back, guess who's back?
Guess who's back?
A-tiskit a-taskit,
I go tit for tat with anybody who's talking this s*** and that s***
Jeremy Corbyn, you can get your ass kicked
Worse than them little Lib Demmic b*******
And Javid, you can get stomped by David
You forty-eight year old bald headed f**, blow me
You don't know me, you're too old, let it go its over,
Nobody listens to Rees-Mogg, no
Now lets go, just give me the signal
I'll be there with a whole list full of new insults
I've been dope, suspenseful with a pencil
Ever since Johnson turned hisself into a mental
But sometimes this s** just seems
Everybody only wants to discuss me
So this must mean I'm disgusting
But it's just me I'm just Tory
Though I'm not the first king of controversy
I am the worst thing since Maggie T
To do Con policy so selfishly
And use it to get myself wealthy
"Hey" there's a concept that works
Twenty million other UKIP nutters emerge
But no matter how many fish in the sea
It will be so empty without me
Now this looks like a job for me
So everybody just follow me
'Cause we need a little controversy
'Cause it feels so empty without me
I said, this looks like a job for me
So everybody just follow me
'Cause we need a little controversy
'Cause it feels so empty without me...0 -
I am flattered, but I think you might need to calm down.....viewcode said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVkUvmDQ3HYSunil_Prasannan said:
Bev you're back!Beverley_C said:
He is obviously slower than I thought .....williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
Guess who's back, back again
Bevy's back, tell a friend
Guess who's back, guess who's back?
Guess who's back, guess who's back?
Guess who's back, guess who's back?
Guess who's back?
A-tiskit a-taskit,
I go tit for tat with anybody who's talking this s*** and that s***
Jeremy Corbyn, you can get your ass kicked
Worse than them little Lib Demmic b*******
And Javid, you can get stomped by David
You forty-eight year old bald headed f**, blow me
You don't know me, you're too old, let it go its over,
Nobody listens to Rees-Mogg, no
Now lets go, just give me the signal
I'll be there with a whole list full of new insults
I've been dope, suspenseful with a pencil
Ever since Johnson turned hisself into a mental
But sometimes this s** just seems
Everybody only wants to discuss me
So this must mean I'm disgusting
But it's just me I'm just Tory
Though I'm not the first king of controversy
I am the worst thing since Maggie T
To do Con policy so selfishly
And use it to get myself wealthy
"Hey" there's a concept that works
Twenty million other UKIP nutters emerge
But no matter how many fish in the sea
It will be so empty without me
Now this looks like a job for me
So everybody just follow me
'Cause we need a little controversy
'Cause it feels so empty without me
I said, this looks like a job for me
So everybody just follow me
'Cause we need a little controversy
'Cause it feels so empty without me...
PB is a strange place
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Give up and stop this insultng nonsense. I have as much right in my party as you do and have only twice in my 75 years on this planet voted labour and that was for BlairHYUFD said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I could suggest you join UKIP but I would not be so rude.
Let us just agree we are at the opposite spectrums of our party0 -
Not under freedom of movement and certainly not after Blair's failure to impose transition controlsGardenwalker said:
Like the hoaxed 17 million you confuse border control, freedom to work, and freedom of movement.HYUFD said:
No we didn't thanks to Blair and his lack of transition controls.Gardenwalker said:
Except Brexit appears to offer less sovereignty in any meaningful sense and we already had control of borders through Schengen.HYUFD said:
Except 17 million voted Leave more than have ever voted Tory or Labour at any general election since the war.Beverley_C said:
Hell to pay? For the Conservative Party perhaps, but not everyone cares what happens to the Tory party.HYUFD said:No you do not comprehend the fact most Leavers voted Leave to regain sovereignty and reduce immigration. Deny respecting those aims and there will be hell to pay, as seen by the rising UKIP vote already.
For most people, most of the time, employment, food on the table and a stable economy matter more than sovereignty. If you go hungry, sovereignty does not keep you warm or fed.
It was not just Tories who voted to regain sovereignty and control of their borders
17 million were hoaxed.
The Leave prospectus Brexit has not yet been tried, just a May brokered fudge
We have always had control of our borders.0 -
I at least respect a democratic vote rather than seeking to undermine it the day after the vote was heldGardenwalker said:
William Glenn is at least consistent.Beverley_C said:
Pot. Kettle.HYUFD said:
William Glenn is a Euro Federalist ideologist, pragmatism does not enter his worldview eitherdixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
Pragmatism does not pollute your posts either Mr HYUFD. You come across to me as something of an ideologue.
Sorry ...
HYUFD swivels about like a contortionist doing the jitterbug.0 -
As it is a fudge. For Leave voters it would be a betrayalGardenwalker said:
Why would Parliament pass such a “dreadful betrayal”?HYUFD said:Portillo calls deal 'a dreadful betrayal' and says he would have quit Cabinet as a result. Parliament will pass the deal but the Tories then must get rid of May and a new leader in not stained by the deal before the next general election
0 -
Actually I would say that 1 or 3 are options, but it would take a very brave (or desperate) politician to go for number 1.dixiedean said:
Yes. There are only 3 options now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The Country has to stop this madness. The HOC need to back May or seek a second vote.dixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
1. Remain. We can't do that. We would have to admit the whole thing has been a ghastly error, and beg for forgiveness. Wouldn't comply with the vote either. The EU wouldn't have to agree either.
2. Crash Brexit. We have done zero preparation for that one. And there isn't much time. The effects would be pronounced.
3. May's proposal.
Like it or not, 3 is the only sane option. The others are fantasies.
The reason I think number 1 is still a possibility is because 3 is a much worse position and does not achieve the aim of Brexit anyway. If we are not really going to Brexit then why not stay in?
The EU would agree if we gave up the rebate.0 -
Well I have never voted Labour nor UKIP.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give up and stop this insultng nonsense. I have as much right in my party as you do and have only twice in my 75 years on this planet voted labour and that was for BlairHYUFD said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I could suggest you join UKIP but I would not be so rude.
Let us just agree we are at the opposite spectrums of our party
You clearly lean Tory but to be a proper Tory you need to vote Tory at every election0 -
I think it achieves quite a lot of the aims. May not be perfect, but if the longer we stayed in, the more difficult it would be to leave.Beverley_C said:
Actually I would say that 1 or 3 are options, but it would take a very brave (or desperate) politician to go for number 1.dixiedean said:
Yes. There are only 3 options now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The Country has to stop this madness. The HOC need to back May or seek a second vote.dixiedean said:
Another point of agreement between us. Mr Glenn has been nothing if not consistent. And he may turn out to have been correct as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree and I never thought I would say that.kle4 said:
Turns out you've been closest to being right this whole time.williamglenn said:Portillo: It's just dawned on me that there are only two possible outcomes of Brexit: to be a colony of the EU or to be a member of the EU.
1. Remain. We can't do that. We would have to admit the whole thing has been a ghastly error, and beg for forgiveness. Wouldn't comply with the vote either. The EU wouldn't have to agree either.
2. Crash Brexit. We have done zero preparation for that one. And there isn't much time. The effects would be pronounced.
3. May's proposal.
Like it or not, 3 is the only sane option. The others are fantasies.
The reason I think number 1 is still a possibility is because 3 is a much worse position and does not achieve the aim of Brexit anyway. If we are not really going to Brexit then why not stay in?
The EU would agree if we gave up the rebate.0 -
Oh well, counts me outHYUFD said:
Well I have never voted Labour nor UKIP.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give up and stop this insultng nonsense. I have as much right in my party as you do and have only twice in my 75 years on this planet voted labour and that was for BlairHYUFD said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I could suggest you join UKIP but I would not be so rude.
Let us just agree we are at the opposite spectrums of our party
You clearly lean Tory but to be a proper Tory you need to vote Tory at every election
I voted Labour in 1997 and 2015, and Libdem in 2001 and 2005!
Only ever voted Tory in 2010 and 2017...0 -
You’ve been taintedSunil_Prasannan said:
Oh well, counts me outHYUFD said:
Well I have never voted Labour nor UKIP.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give up and stop this insultng nonsense. I have as much right in my party as you do and have only twice in my 75 years on this planet voted labour and that was for BlairHYUFD said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I could suggest you join UKIP but I would not be so rude.
Let us just agree we are at the opposite spectrums of our party
You clearly lean Tory but to be a proper Tory you need to vote Tory at every election
I voted Labour in 1997 and 2015, and Libdem in 2001 and 2005!
Only ever voted Tory in 2010 and 2017...
0 -
0
-
Utter and complete nonsense. I was Lord Wyn Roberts personal driver in election campaigns in the 1970s, have spent hours getting out the vote, was also David Jones driver in the 2015 election and just think you have gone over the line.HYUFD said:
Well I have never voted Labour nor UKIP.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give up and stop this insultng nonsense. I have as much right in my party as you do and have only twice in my 75 years on this planet voted labour and that was for BlairHYUFD said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I could suggest you join UKIP but I would not be so rude.
Let us just agree we are at the opposite spectrums of our party
You clearly lean Tory but to be a proper Tory you need to vote Tory at every election
Your intolerance is typical of UKIP
Good night0 -
HYUFD:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
dixiedean:
As a Labour man, may I salute and encourage your efforts to alienate all "Tory leaning swing voters."0 -
As a Labour man, may I salute and encourage your efforts to alienate all "Tory leaning swing voters."dixiedean said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I give up on him to be honest.
If he carries on with others the same way the party will fall below the Lib Dems0 -
Great post. Can someone tell me what has happened to the pro-business, pro-growth, pro-jobs Tories? I never voted for them, but they offered an important counterbalance to the trade union left.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have always been a conservative as was my Father working in the cotton industry in Lancashire and the ethos of hard work, family, honesty, and being fair to those you employ are my values together with low tax and non intrusive government.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
I am sorry about the hard Brexit right causing chaos but I would, like a lot of labour supporters, find it hard to leave and will fight on to hopefully see a sensible pro business and socially aware conservative party again0 -
I think Portillo has had it with Mrs May!HYUFD said:Portillo calls deal 'a dreadful betrayal' and says he would have quit Cabinet as a result. Parliament will pass the deal but the Tories then must get rid of May and a new leader in not stained by the deal before the next general election
0 -
dixiedean:dixiedean said:HYUFD:
'BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
As a Labour man, may I salute and encourage your efforts to alienate all "Tory leaning swing voters."'
It was not about 'alienating' voters but a statement of fact.
I would equally say a usually Labour voter who voted Tory in 2010 or 2015 is not a proper Labour voter but a Labour leaning swing voter as a usually Tory voter who voted Labour in 1997 or 2001 is a Tory leaning swing voter rather than a proper Tory0 -
They seem to be taking over by a cult just like labour.Anazina said:
Great post. Can someone tell me what has happened to the pro-business, pro-growth, pro-jobs Tories? I never voted for them, but they offered an important counterbalance to the trade union left.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have always been a conservative as was my Father working in the cotton industry in Lancashire and the ethos of hard work, family, honesty, and being fair to those you employ are my values together with low tax and non intrusive government.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
I am sorry about the hard Brexit right causing chaos but I would, like a lot of labour supporters, find it hard to leave and will fight on to hopefully see a sensible pro business and socially aware conservative party again
I ran my own business for years and never thought I would have fellow conservatives accusing me of hysteria, not a real conservative, and my family and tens of thousands of workers just having to accept they may not be able to have foreign holidays anymore
That has happened to me today but I will fight for my party as a totally focused on business and low taxes0 -
I give up on him to be honest.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a Labour man, may I salute and encourage your efforts to alienate all "Tory leaning swing voters."dixiedean said:
'BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
If he carries on with others the same way the party will fall below the Lib Dems'
The majority of Tories are Brexiteers, if it ignores all of them the party will fall below UKIP.
0 -
The majority of Tories are Brexiteers, if it ignores all of them the party will fall below UKIP.HYUFD said:
I give up on him to be honest.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a Labour man, may I salute and encourage your efforts to alienate all "Tory leaning swing voters."dixiedean said:
'BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
If he carries on with others the same way the party will fall below the Lib Dems'
No they are not0 -
You are clearly a classic swing voter Sunil and given your Leave vote too we can often say 'as Sunil goes so goes the nation'Sunil_Prasannan said:
Oh well, counts me outHYUFD said:
Well I have never voted Labour nor UKIP.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give up and stop this insultng nonsense. I have as much right in my party as you do and have only twice in my 75 years on this planet voted labour and that was for BlairHYUFD said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I could suggest you join UKIP but I would not be so rude.
Let us just agree we are at the opposite spectrums of our party
You clearly lean Tory but to be a proper Tory you need to vote Tory at every election
I voted Labour in 1997 and 2015, and Libdem in 2001 and 2005!
Only ever voted Tory in 2010 and 2017...0 -
That still makes you Tory leaning not Tory and I don't knock your hard work for the party most of the timeBig_G_NorthWales said:
Utter and complete nonsense. I was Lord Wyn Roberts personal driver in election campaigns in the 1970s, have spent hours getting out the vote, was also David Jones driver in the 2015 election and just think you have gone over the line.HYUFD said:
Well I have never voted Labour nor UKIP.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give up and stop this insultng nonsense. I have as much right in my party as you do and have only twice in my 75 years on this planet voted labour and that was for BlairHYUFD said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I could suggest you join UKIP but I would not be so rude.
Let us just agree we are at the opposite spectrums of our party
You clearly lean Tory but to be a proper Tory you need to vote Tory at every election
Your intolerance is typical of UKIP
Good night0 -
'No they are not'Big_G_NorthWales said:
The majority of Tories are Brexiteers, if it ignores all of them the party will fall below UKIP.HYUFD said:
I give up on him to be honest.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a Labour man, may I salute and encourage your efforts to alienate all "Tory leaning swing voters."dixiedean said:
'BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
If he carries on with others the same way the party will fall below the Lib Dems'
They are, almost 70% of 2017 Tory voters voted Leave0 -
I nearly told you to do one but remembered I am too politeHYUFD said:
That still makes you Tory leaning not Tory and I don't knock your hard work for the party most of the timeBig_G_NorthWales said:
Utter and complete nonsense. I was Lord Wyn Roberts personal driver in election campaigns in the 1970s, have spent hours getting out the vote, was also David Jones driver in the 2015 election and just think you have gone over the line.HYUFD said:
Well I have never voted Labour nor UKIP.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give up and stop this insultng nonsense. I have as much right in my party as you do and have only twice in my 75 years on this planet voted labour and that was for BlairHYUFD said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I could suggest you join UKIP but I would not be so rude.
Let us just agree we are at the opposite spectrums of our party
You clearly lean Tory but to be a proper Tory you need to vote Tory at every election
Your intolerance is typical of UKIP
Good night
You have become boring, judgemental of others, and simply absurd most of the time0 -
I give up on him to be honest.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a Labour man, may I salute and encourage your efforts to alienate all "Tory leaning swing voters."dixiedean said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
If he carries on with others the same way the party will fall below the Lib Dems
Oh well. I see upthread I am not a real Labour man after all, as I have voted LibDem, Green and several Independents of various flavours, one of whom was a Conservative in all but name.
Apparently, voting blindly for the Party in defiance of all policy, ideology and competence considerations is the only mark of true authenticity.0 -
Oh well. I see upthread I am not a real Labour man after all, as I have voted LibDem, Green and several Independents of various flavours, one of whom was a Conservative in all but name.dixiedean said:
I give up on him to be honest.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a Labour man, may I salute and encourage your efforts to alienate all "Tory leaning swing voters."dixiedean said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
If he carries on with others the same way the party will fall below the Lib Dems
Apparently, voting blindly for the Party in defiance of all policy, ideology and competence considerations is the only mark of true authenticity.
He has become unhinged which seems to be quite common with Brexit0 -
As have many BrexiteersGIN1138 said:
I think Portillo has had it with Mrs May!HYUFD said:Portillo calls deal 'a dreadful betrayal' and says he would have quit Cabinet as a result. Parliament will pass the deal but the Tories then must get rid of May and a new leader in not stained by the deal before the next general election
0 -
I don't see how a statement of the obvious ie if you sometimes vote Labour rather than Tory you are a Tory leaning swing voter somehow makes me 'judgemental of others'. I never criticised you personally in fact I praised your work for the party when you have done it but by definition a party's base is made up by those who stick with it through good times and bad.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I nearly told you to do one but remembered I am too politeHYUFD said:
That still makes you Tory leaning not Tory and I don't knock your hard work for the party most of the timeBig_G_NorthWales said:
Utter and complete nonsense. I was Lord Wyn Roberts personal driver in election campaigns in the 1970s, have spent hours getting out the vote, was also David Jones driver in the 2015 election and just think you have gone over the line.HYUFD said:
Well I have never voted Labour nor UKIP.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give up and stop this insultng nonsense. I have as much right in my party as you do and have only twice in my 75 years on this planet voted labour and that was for BlairHYUFD said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I could suggest you join UKIP but I would not be so rude.
Let us just agree we are at the opposite spectrums of our party
You clearly lean Tory but to be a proper Tory you need to vote Tory at every election
Your intolerance is typical of UKIP
Good night
You have become boring, judgemental of others, and simply absurd most of the time
For example Tory 1997 voters not just Tory 2015 voters and Labour 2010 voters not just Labour 2001 voters.
I will leave it there as I have work in the morning and I don't want to keep this discussion going if it gets too personal even if unintentional0 -
My own view is that a party which defines itself solely in terms of those who always vote for them will either remain or become a small party, not much bigger than those who always vote for them, until one day, even they don't.HYUFD said:
I don't see how a statement of the obvious ie if you sometimes vote Labour rather than Tory you are a Tory leaning swing voter somehow makes me 'judgemental of others'. I never criticised you personally in fact I praised your work for the party when you have done it but by definition a party's base is made up by those who stick with it through good times and bad.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I nearly told you to do one but remembered I am too politeHYUFD said:
That still makes you Tory leaning not Tory and I don't knock your hard work for the party most of the timeBig_G_NorthWales said:
Utter and complete nonsense. I was Lord Wyn Roberts personal driver in election campaigns in the 1970s, have spent hours getting out the vote, was also David Jones driver in the 2015 election and just think you have gone over the line.HYUFD said:
Well I have never voted Labour nor UKIP.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give up and stop this insultng nonsense. I have as much right in my party as you do and have only twice in my 75 years on this planet voted labour and that was for BlairHYUFD said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I could suggest you join UKIP but I would not be so rude.
Let us just agree we are at the opposite spectrums of our party
You clearly lean Tory but to be a proper Tory you need to vote Tory at every election
Your intolerance is typical of UKIP
Good night
You have become boring, judgemental of others, and simply absurd most of the time
For example Tory 1997 voters not just Tory 2015 voters and Labour 2010 voters not just Labour 2001 voters.
I will leave it there as I have work in the morning and I don't want to keep this discussion going if it gets too personal even if unintentional0 -
On topic, leavers tend to be Tories, so not surprising Corbyn polls badly there. Looking at how he does with Lab leave vs Lab remain might be interesting.
27% unfavourable amongst Labour voters suggests there is a decent constituency of the unhappy.
Finally, slightly surprised May does a fair bit better than JC with Lib Dem voters.0 -
59% of voters have always voted Tory or Labour since 1997.MTimT said:
My own view is that a party which defines itself solely in terms of those who always vote for them will either remain or become a small party, not much bigger than those who always vote for them, until one day, even they don't.HYUFD said:
I don't see how a statement of the obvious ie ugh good times and bad.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I nearly told you to do one but remembered I am too politeHYUFD said:
That still makes you Tory leaning not Tory and I don't knock your hard work for the party most of the timeBig_G_NorthWales said:
Utter and complete nonsense. I was Lord Wyn Roberts personal driver of UKIPHYUFD said:
Well I have never voted Labour nor UKIP.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give up and stop this insultng nonsense. I have as much right in my party as you do and have only twice in my 75 years on this planet voted labour and that was for BlairHYUFD said:
BigG voted for New Labour in 1997 and 2001 and for Remain.NickPalmer said:
Do you feel that it's still your natural home? You seem too unideological for either of the big parties (speaking as someone who is ideological, but I try to listen to those who aren't).Big_G_NorthWales said:
No that is not true. You are falling for JRM , who has at most 25% of the MPs. I may be a minority in the membership but you cannot say most back a hard Brexit. Even JRM wants a deal, not a hard Brexit.
Please do not try to belittle my contribution to my party over the last 55 years
He is not a Tory really more a Tory leaning swing voter
I could suggest you join UKIP but I would not be so rude.
Let us just agree we are at the opposite spectrums of our party
You clearly lean Tory but to be a proper Tory you need to vote Tory at every election
Good night
You have become boring, judgemental of others, and simply absurd most of the time
For example Tory 1997 voters not just Tory 2015 voters and Labour 2010 voters not just Labour 2001 voters.
I will leave it there as I have work in the morning and I don't want to keep this discussion going if it gets too personal even if unintentional
The only way either are replaced is by a new party to their left or right emerging, a new centrist party could take their moderates but would not replace them0 -
hello PB, first time I have commented since the days of "Tim", if anyone remembers him! I had a different moniker then, but enjoyed being the scourge of headbangers on the right and left. HYUFD and his deranged rantings at anyone without his "pure" world view have brought me back out of retirement!0
