BBC 10pm news reports Trump has told the Sun newspaper that if it is soft Brexit there may be no trade deal with the USA. Great news for Boris and Mogg, less so for May
Great news for the UK.
+1. Relying on a Trump led US is madness. Trump really is determined to destabilise things, and yet May still sucks up to him. Unbelievable. By now she should know it won’t get her anywhere. The man has no respect for her whatsoever.
BBC 10pm news reports Trump has told the Sun newspaper that if it is soft Brexit there may be no trade deal with the USA. Great news for Boris and Mogg, less so for May
Great news for the UK.
+1. Relying on a Trump led US is madness. Trump really is determined to destabilise things, and yet May still sucks up to him. Unbelievable. By now she should know it won’t get her anywhere. The man has no respect for her whatsoever.
The EU regard our proposals with contempt as well - not sure the lack of respect from Trump really matters.
Given the anti-trade policies and tariffs already implemented, why the hell does *anyone*, even the most delusional Brexit Ultra, think there will actually be a trade deal that will benefit the UK?
BBC 10pm news reports Trump has told the Sun newspaper that if it is soft Brexit there may be no trade deal with the USA. Great news for Boris and Mogg, less so for May
A much stronger intervention on one side of our Brexit debate than previously.
Sounds like it would play pretty strongly with Tory members, even those that don't like Trump. Surely more resignations and rebellions will come.
JRM and co, send in your letters, have the damn contest, this need resolving.
With the May plan also suggested as being not far enough for the EU anyway, it has to be close to dead? The party can accept plenty of compromises to get a deal, despite loud grumbling, but if both the EU and the USA are united in thinking her proposal not good enough (in different ways) it has to be a nonstarter? Sure they might say it is 80% done or whatever, but that's no good if she cannot bend on the rest.
As I have said May likely gets a transition deal and ever lasting FTA negotiations which the EU never quite agree are complete. Eventually the choice will be between that and staying in the EU in all but name (perhaps ultimately rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union) or leaving fully and going to WTO terms
In which case the Tories should have their little fight and determine right now if they can remain a single party behind one of those options. This moaning, but not provoking challenges to prevent things, is matched in tedium only by comments like mine talking about it.
If she wins a VNOC it will not change the Brexiteers determination to scupper the deal
I am almost at the point of saying she should walk away and let some one else take on the futility of all this
BBC 10pm news reports Trump has told the Sun newspaper that if it is soft Brexit there may be no trade deal with the USA. Great news for Boris and Mogg, less so for May
A much stronger intervention on one side of our Brexit debate than previously.
Sounds like it would play pretty strongly with Tory members, even those that don't like Trump. Surely more resignations and rebellions will come.
JRM and co, send in your letters, have the damn contest, this need resolving.
With the May plan also suggested as being not far enough for the EU anyway, it has to be close to dead? The party can accept plenty of compromises to get a deal, despite loud grumbling, but if both the EU and the USA are united in thinking her proposal not good enough (in different ways) it has to be a nonstarter? Sure they might say it is 80% done or whatever, but that's no good if she cannot bend on the rest.
As I have said May likely gets a transition deal and ever lasting FTA negotiations which the EU never quite agree are complete. Eventually the choice will be between that and staying in the EU in all but name (perhaps ultimately rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union) or leaving fully and going to WTO terms
In which case the Tories should have their little fight and determine right now if they can remain a single party behind one of those options. This moaning, but not provoking challenges to prevent things, is matched in tedium only by comments like mine talking about it.
The first option wins for now but if no FTA has been agreed by December 2020 and the date the transition period is due to an end I expect most Tories to fall behind the second option to see off the UKIP threat
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
But in the same way Labour is now Corbynite because that is what the party members support, even if plenty of MPs have concerns, the Tories members clearly want a hard hard deal or no deal, even if plenty of MPs have concerns. With such views among the members, how can May possibly survive trying to get what she wants? Labour are not going to come to the rescue, even if the EU give her a win, which they show no sign of doing.
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
But in the same way Labour is now Corbynite because that is what the party members support, even if plenty of MPs have concerns, the Tories members clearly want a hard hard deal or no deal, even if plenty of MPs have concerns. With such views among the members, how can May possibly survive trying to get what she wants? Labour are not going to come to the rescue, even if the EU give her a win, which they show no sign of doing.
Well for Mrs May the members cannot directly force her out.
Maybe even not indirectly.
If we get a no deal Brexit with all the resultant problems the government will not last until May 2019.
BTW for anyone interested Conservative Home have the alternative plan for Brexit from Dex.EU (Presumably this is what David Davis was expecting to present at Chequers?)
The takeaway is that if you develop an unrealistic plan (Chequers) anyone can trump it with pure fantasy, as here. It's an argument for engaging with reality.
This plan looks totally reasonable. It is basically a CETA deal with a few addons which make perfect sense and are in line with what the EU has agreed with other nations. Certainly does not involve the endless cherry picking of May’s deal. Do you actually have a critique?
BBC 10pm news reports Trump has told the Sun newspaper that if it is soft Brexit there may be no trade deal with the USA. Great news for Boris and Mogg, less so for May
A much stronger intervention on one side of our Brexit debate than previously.
Sounds like it would play pretty strongly with Tory members, even those that don't like Trump. Surely more resignations and rebellions will come.
JRM and co, send in your letters, have the damn contest, this need resolving.
With the May plan also suggested as being not far enough for the EU anyway, it has to be close to dead? The party can accept plenty of compromises to get a deal, despite loud grumbling, but if both the EU and the USA are united in thinking her proposal not good enough (in different ways) it has to be a nonstarter? Sure they might say it is 80% done or whatever, but that's no good if she cannot bend on the rest.
As I have said May likely gets a transition deal and ever lasting FTA negotiations which the EU never quite agree are complete. Eventually the choice will be between that and staying in the EU in all but name (perhaps ultimately rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union) or leaving fully and going to WTO terms
In which case the Tories should have their little fight and determine right now if they can remain a single party behind one of those options. This moaning, but not provoking challenges to prevent things, is matched in tedium only by comments like mine talking about it.
If she wins a VNOC it will not change the Brexiteers determination to scupper the deal
I agree, which is why this confrontation should have happened a long time ago, so one side would win and see if the other side could get in line and, upon seeing that would not happen, hopefully some other option would have emerged (be it another GE or referendum, for all those are fraught with their own problems). As it is it is too late for most options, May's deal looks dead in the water even if the EU unexpectedly say ok, and the Brexiteers seem to be gambling on that while they might not win a Vote of No Confidence, they can ensure no one else can get anything done, and therefore they get no deal by default.
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues. Indeed in terms of unfavourable cable does much the same with Leavers as May, just a few more undecideds.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
But in the same way Labour is now Corbynite because that is what the party members support, even if plenty of MPs have concerns, the Tories members clearly want a hard hard deal or no deal, even if plenty of MPs have concerns. With such views among the members, how can May possibly survive trying to get what she wants? Labour are not going to come to the rescue, even if the EU give her a win, which they show no sign of doing.
Well for Mrs May the members cannot directly force her out.
Maybe even not indirectly.
If we get a no deal Brexit with all the resultant problems the government will not last until May 2019.
It seems quite unlikely it will anyway. The MPs dare not force May out, but the members will destroy them if they don't stop her plan. Something has to give, and either way the Tory party are pretty f*cked.
BBC 10pm news reports Trump has told the Sun newspaper that if it is soft Brexit there may be no trade deal with the USA. Great news for Boris and Mogg, less so for May
A much stronger intervention on one side of our Brexit debate than previously.
Sounds like it would play pretty strongly with Tory members, even those that don't like Trump. Surely more resignations and rebellions will come.
JRM and co, send in your letters, have the damn contest, this need resolving.
With the May plan also suggested as being not far enough for the EU anyway, it has to be close to dead? The party can accept plenty of compromises to get a deal, despite loud grumbling, but if both the EU and the USA are united in thinking her proposal not good enough (in different ways) it has to be a nonstarter? Sure they might say it is 80% done or whatever, but that's no good if she cannot bend on the rest.
As I have said May likely gets a transition deal and ever lasting FTA negotiations which the EU never quite agree are complete. Eventually the choice will be between that and staying in the EU in all but name (perhaps ultimately rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union) or leaving fully and going to WTO terms
In which case the Tories should have their little fight and determine right now if they can remain a single party behind one of those options. This moaning, but not provoking challenges to prevent things, is matched in tedium only by comments like mine talking about it.
If she wins a VNOC it will not change the Brexiteers determination to scupper the deal
I agree, which is why this confrontation should have happened a long time ago, so one side would win and see if the other side could get in line and, upon seeing that would not happen, hopefully some other option would have emerged (be it another GE or referendum, for all those are fraught with their own problems). As it is it is too late for most options, May's deal looks dead in the water even if the EU unexpectedly say ok, and the Brexiteers seem to be gambling on that while they might not win a Vote of No Confidence, they can ensure no one else can get anything done, and therefore they get no deal by default.
Not sure Parliament will agree to that - expect push to give the people a vote from the HOC
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
But in the same way Labour is now Corbynite because that is what the party members support, even if plenty of MPs have concerns, the Tories members clearly want a hard hard deal or no deal, even if plenty of MPs have concerns. With such views among the members, how can May possibly survive trying to get what she wants? Labour are not going to come to the rescue, even if the EU give her a win, which they show no sign of doing.
Well for Mrs May the members cannot directly force her out.
Maybe even not indirectly.
If we get a no deal Brexit with all the resultant problems the government will not last until May 2019.
It seems quite unlikely it will anyway. The MPs dare not force May out, but the members will destroy them if they don't stop her plan. Something has to give, and either way the Tory party are pretty f*cked.
I am more concerned that the Country is (not a word I would use but well expressed by yourself)
BBC 10pm news reports Trump has told the Sun newspaper that if it is soft Brexit there may be no trade deal with the USA. Great news for Boris and Mogg, less so for May
A much stronger intervention on one side of our Brexit debate than previously.
Sounds like it would play pretty strongly with Tory members, even those that don't like Trump. Surely more resignations and rebellions will come.
JRM and co, send in your letters, have the damn contest, this need resolving.
With the May plan also suggested as being not far enough for the EU anyway, it has to be close to dead? The party can accept plenty of compromises to get a deal, despite loud grumbling, but if both the EU and the USA are united in thinking her proposal not good enough (in different ways) it has to be a nonstarter? Sure they might say it is 80% done or whatever, but that's no good if she cannot bend on the rest.
As I have said May likely gets a transition deal and ever lasting FTA negotiations which the EU never quite agree are compWTO terms
In wt.
If she wins a VNOC it will not change the Brexiteers determination to scupper the deal
I agree, which is why this confrontation should have happened a long time ago, so one side would win and see if the other side could get in line and, upon seeing that would not happen, hopefully some other option would have emerged (be it another GE or referendum, for all those are fraught with their own problems). As it is it is too late for most options, May's deal looks dead in the water even if the EU unexpectedly say ok, and the Brexiteers seem to be gambling on that while they might not win a Vote of No Confidence, they can ensure no one else can get anything done, and therefore they get no deal by default.
Not sure Parliament will agree to that - expect push to give the people a vote from the HOC
It doesn't solve many problems, but it is a way for the parliament, unable to really do anything on this issue with its current parliamentary arithmetic, to try and pass the ball on responsibility back to the people.
One reason such moves will happen, successfully or not, is because it seems that among Tory members the Boris and David crowd have won the argument about May's plan being craptastic. Even if it isn't (I find it hard to judge, but that BBC fact check seemed to essentially say it was crap, if not in those words), it doesn't look like she has convinced the party, and the MPs can only take so much.
I am old enough to remember when it was outrageous for a US president to comment on UK politics. Or maybe that rule only applied to half African ones ;-)
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
But in the same way Labour is now Corbynite because that is what the party members support, even if plenty of MPs have concerns, the Tories members clearly want a hard hard deal or no deal, even if plenty of MPs have concerns. With such views among the members, how can May possibly survive trying to get what she wants? Labour are not going to come to the rescue, even if the EU give her a win, which they show no sign of doing.
Well for Mrs May the members cannot directly force her out.
Maybe even not indirectly.
If we get a no deal Brexit with all the resultant problems the government will not last until May 2019.
It seems quite unlikely it will anyway. The MPs dare not force May out, but the members will destroy them if they don't stop her plan. Something has to give, and either way the Tory party are pretty f*cked.
No as I said the Tories will agree a transition deal until 2020 in all likelihood to help the economy and business prepare post Brexit but if no EU FTA agreed by then they will accept WTO terms to deal with the UKIP threat before the next general election
I am old enough to remember when it was outrageous for a US president to comment on UK politics. Or maybe that rule only applied to half African ones ;-)
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
And after all that outrage from some on the right about Obama’s comment as well.
Yes indeed. For all the misjudgement I may have made I am in no place to judge, but I am very interested to know how this incredibly strong intervention, including what from the front page looks like a virtual endorsement of a party member to replace their leader, is ok compared to that of Obama.
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
But in the same way Labour is now Corbynite because that is what the party members support, even if plenty of MPs have concerns, the Tories members clearly want a hard hard deal or no deal, even if plenty of MPs have concerns. With such views among the members, how can May possibly survive trying to get what she wants? Labour are not going to come to the rescue, even if the EU give her a win, which they show no sign of doing.
Well for Mrs May the members cannot directly force her out.
Maybe even not indirectly.
If we get a no deal Brexit with all the resultant problems the government will not last until May 2019.
It seems quite unlikely it will anyway. The MPs dare not force May out, but the members will destroy them if they don't stop her plan. Something has to give, and either way the Tory party are pretty f*cked.
No as I said the Tories will agree a transition deal until 2020 in all likelihood to help the economy and business prepare post Brexit but if no EU FTA agreed by then they will accept WTO terms to deal with the UKIP threat before the next general election
And how do the various factions in the Tory party agree to agree on any of that? The viciousness with which they reference each other is incredibly blatant.
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
No soft Brexiteers are Corbyn enablers as Labour has its first clear lead in most polls for months due to Tory defections to UKIP.
Soft Brexit may help the economy a bit fair enough but it is not the Brexit most Leave voters voted for but BINO
Because we have to chase him. Because he's the Brexit the UK deserves, but not the one it needs right now, so we'll hunt him. Because he can take it, because he's not Brexit. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector, a Dark Knight.
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
But in the same way Labour is now Corbynite because that is what the party members support, even if plenty of MPs have concerns, the Tories members clearly want a hard hard deal or no deal, even if plenty of MPs have concerns. With such views among the members, how can May possibly survive trying to get what she wants? Labour are not going to come to the rescue, even if the EU give her a win, which they show no sign of doing.
Well for Mrs May the members cannot directly force her out.
Maybe even not indirectly.
If we get a no deal Brexit with all the resultant problems the government will not last until May 2019.
It seems quite unlikely it will anyway. The MPs dare not force May out, but the members will destroy them if they don't stop her plan. Something has to give, and either way the Tory party are pretty f*cked.
(not a word I would use but well expressed by yourself)
I am not a fan of expletives myself, but they are made for times such as these. Partly my fault of course, but it is what it is.
Is it (theoretically) possible for a government to cut short a foreign leader's visit? Can Theresa just show up tomorrow morning at Donald's room with some plane tickets for him?
Well - that would make her appear strong .... but not entirely stable
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
And after all that outrage from some on the right about Obama’s comment as well.
Yes indeed. For all the misjudgement I may have made I am in no place to judge, but I am very interested to know how this incredibly strong intervention, including what from the front page looks like a virtual endorsement of a party member to replace their leader, is ok compared to that of Obama.
Yes....so far I haven’t seen much outrage or upset from those on the right (TSE excepted) about Trump’s comments. Trump seems to want to influence domestic politics in this country (with his Boris endorsement and implied push for a Hard Brexit) wonder how well that will go down.
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
And after all that outrage from some on the right about Obama’s comment as well.
Yes indeed. For all the misjudgement I may have made I am in no place to judge, but I am very interested to know how this incredibly strong intervention, including what from the front page looks like a virtual endorsement of a party member to replace their leader, is ok compared to that of Obama.
Trump has insulted Canada, Germany, France, the EU as a whole, Japan, Mexico, and pretty much anyone else whom he has heard of, with the notable exception of Putin's Russia. Since he is clearly a temporary aberration in the history of a great nation, and any trade deal with the US won't happen until well after he has gone, why would anyone take anything he says seriously?
O'mara already forgotten - he picked a good night for it. Labour will be pleased. With that and now they have time to pick a good candidate for next time, he really has been kind to them in how he left.
I think we are now in a situation where no potential solution has a majority in either the Commons or the electorate (including no deal and even exiting Brexit - if that is possible). May's approach is as close to an overall compromise as we are likely to see. If it is wiped out then how on earth will a new status quo that is remotely stable be achieved?
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
And after all that outrage from some on the right about Obama’s comment as well.
Yes indeed. For all the misjudgement I may have made I am in no place to judge, but I am very interested to know how this incredibly strong intervention, including what from the front page looks like a virtual endorsement of a party member to replace their leader, is ok compared to that of Obama.
Yes....so far I haven’t seen much outrage or upset from those on the right (TSE excepted) about Trump’s comments. Trump seems to want to influence domestic politics in this country (with his Boris endorsement and implied push for a Hard Brexit) wonder how well that will go down.
His comments are pretty unacceptable. His public support for Boris crosses a line.
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
But in the same way Labour is now Corbynite because that is what the party members support, even if plenty of MPs have concerns, the Tories members clearly want a hard hard deal or no deal, even if plenty of MPs have concerns. With such views among the members, how can May possibly survive trying to get what she wants? Labour are not going to come to the rescue, even if the EU give her a win, which they show no sign of doing.
Well for Mrs May the members cannot directly force her out.
Maybe even not indirectly.
If we get a no deal Brexit with all the resultant problems the government will not last until May 2019.
It seems quite unlikely it will anyway. The MPs dare not force May out, but the members will destroy them if they don't stop her plan. Something has to give, and either way the Tory party are pretty f*cked.
(not a word I would use but well expressed by yourself)
I am not a fan of expletives myself, but they are made for times such as these. Partly my fault of course, but it is what it is.
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
And after all that outrage from some on the right about Obama’s comment as well.
Yes indeed. For all the misjudgement I may have made I am in no place to judge, but I am very interested to know how this incredibly strong intervention, including what from the front page looks like a virtual endorsement of a party member to replace their leader, is ok compared to that of Obama.
Trump has insulted Canada, Germany, France, the EU as a whole, Japan, Mexico, and pretty much anyone else whom he has heard of, with the notable exception of Putin's Russia. Since he is clearly a temporary aberration in the history of a great nation, and any trade deal with the US won't happen until well after he has gone, why would anyone take anything he says seriously?
Clearly people are, however. Most people in the UK don't like him, but his comments seem well designed to further undermine May's plans among people who she needs to back it.
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
And after all that outrage from some on the right about Obama’s comment as well.
Yes indeed. For all the misjudgement I may have made I am in no place to judge, but I am very interested to know how this incredibly strong intervention, including what from the front page looks like a virtual endorsement of a party member to replace their leader, is ok compared to that of Obama.
I think the difference is the Obama comment was made in respect to a vote, possibly during the campaign. Trumps comment while unconventional is on the existing position, not trying to excerpt influence on a vote.
O'mara already forgotten - he picked a good night for it. Labour will be pleased. With that and now they have time to pick a good candidate for next time, he really has been kind to them in how he left.
Up to a point. He clearly won't be reliable lobby-fodder, which decreases Labour's effective strength in a tight parliament.
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
And after all that outrage from some on the right about Obama’s comment as well.
Yes indeed. For all the misjudgement I may have made I am in no place to judge, but I am very interested to know how this incredibly strong intervention, including what from the front page looks like a virtual endorsement of a party member to replace their leader, is ok compared to that of Obama.
Trump has insulted Canada, Germany, France, the EU as a whole, Japan, Mexico, and pretty much anyone else whom he has heard of, with the notable exception of Putin's Russia. Since he is clearly a temporary aberration in the history of a great nation, and any trade deal with the US won't happen until well after he has gone, why would anyone take anything he says seriously?
Clearly people are, however. Most people in the UK don't like him, but his comments seem well designed to further undermine May's plans among people who she needs to back it.
I doubt that very much indeed. More likely the opposite, if anything, but most likely no effect at all.
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
And after all that outrage from some on the right about Obama’s comment as well.
Yes indeed. For all the misjudgement I may have made I am in no place to judge, but I am very interested to know how this incredibly strong intervention, including what from the front page looks like a virtual endorsement of a party member to replace their leader, is ok compared to that of Obama.
I think the difference is the Obama comment was made in respect to a vote, possibly during the campaign. Trumps comment while unconventional is on the existing position, not trying to excerpt influence on a vote.
And a seeming endorsement of a leadership contender in the governing party who just very publicly quit the government. (even if all he said was that 'Boris would be great', in this context that is as good as an endorsement)
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
But in the same way Labour is now Corbynite because that is what the party members support, even if plenty of MPs have concerns, the Tories members clearly want a hard hard deal or no deal, even if plenty of MPs have concerns. With such views among the members, how can May possibly survive trying to get what she wants? Labour are not going to come to the rescue, even if the EU give her a win, which they show no sign of doing.
Well for Mrs May the members cannot directly force her out.
Maybe even not indirectly.
If we get a no deal Brexit with all the resultant problems the government will not last until May 2019.
It seems quite unlikely it will anyway. The MPs dare not force May out, but the members will destroy them if they don't stop her plan. Something has to give, and either way the Tory party are pretty f*cked.
(not a word I would use but well expressed by yourself)
I am not a fan of expletives myself, but they are made for times such as these. Partly my fault of course, but it is what it is.
I was not intending to come over all righteous and you did partly sensor it.
I think we are now in a situation where no potential solution has a majority in either the Commons or the electorate (including no deal and even exiting Brexit - if that is possible). May's approach is as close to an overall compromise as we are likely to see. If it is wiped out then how on earth will a new status quo that is remotely stable be achieved?
I think most of the electorate probably just want the whole d*mn thing over with and are fed up with the politicians for not just getting on with it. Given that one day the 'rebels' are the remainers and the next they are leavers it's a pox on all their houses. Even worse is that every time anyone rebels they hide behind the excuse that their position is not necessarily based on fundamental principle, but just because the people will get angry that it is not what the voted (or didn't) for.
Imagine my surprise to find that Boris Johnson gets a ringing endorsement from a lazy serial liar, an inveterate sexual predator and a friend to racists and xenophobes. Whoever would have thought it?
Nobody will make a long-term deal with the US until sanity is restored. Or rather, any seeal made cannot be relied upon. That is a fundamental weakness inherent with Trump. Weather the storm.
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
But in the same way Labour is now Corbynite because that is what the party members support, even if plenty of MPs have concerns, the Tories members clearly want a hard hard deal or no deal, even if plenty of MPs have concerns. With such views among the members, how can May possibly survive trying to get what she wants? Labour are not going to come to the rescue, even if the EU give her a win, which they show no sign of doing.
Well for Mrs May the members cannot directly force her out.
Maybe even not indirectly.
If we get a no deal Brexit with all the resultant problems the government will not last until May 2019.
It seems quite unlikely it will anyway. The MPs dare not force May out, but the members will destroy them if they don't stop her plan. Something has to give, and either way the Tory party are pretty f*cked.
(not a word I would use but well expressed by yourself)
I am not a fan of expletives myself, but they are made for times such as these. Partly my fault of course, but it is what it is.
I was not intending to come over all righteous and you did partly sensor it.
I didn't think you were being righteous at all, I was merely explaining my own take.
Nobody will make a long-term deal with the US until sanity is restored. Or rather, any seeal made cannot be relied upon. That is a fundamental weakness inherent with Trump. Weather the storm.
Quite so. And no-one will enter into a trade deal with the UK until the relationship with the EU is settled (in fact it's impossible to do so even if they wanted to).
Imagine my surprise to find that Boris Johnson gets a ringing endorsement from a lazy serial liar, an inveterate sexual predator and a friend to racists and xenophobes. Whoever would have thought it?
Don't fret, it's just another nail in the coffin of his leadership ambitions.
Nobody will make a long-term deal with the US until sanity is restored. Or rather, any seeal made cannot be relied upon. That is a fundamental weakness inherent with Trump. Weather the storm.
It was i think pointed out that the one thing the Chequers plan did not concentrate on was any realistic prospect of a deal with the US.
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
And after all that outrage from some on the right about Obama’s comment as well.
Yes indeed. For all the misjudgement I may have made I am in no place to judge, but I am very interested to know how this incredibly strong intervention, including what from the front page looks like a virtual endorsement of a party member to replace their leader, is ok compared to that of Obama.
I think the difference is the Obama comment was made in respect to a vote, possibly during the campaign. Trumps comment while unconventional is on the existing position, not trying to excerpt influence on a vote.
And a seeming endorsement of a leadership contender in the governing party who just very publicly quit the government. (even if all he said was that 'Boris would be great', in this context that is as good as an endorsement)
I think we are now in a situation where no potential solution has a majority in either the Commons or the electorate (including no deal and even exiting Brexit - if that is possible). May's approach is as close to an overall compromise as we are likely to see. If it is wiped out then how on earth will a new status quo that is remotely stable be achieved?
I think most of the electorate probably just want the whole d*mn thing over with and are fed up with the politicians for not just getting on with it. Given that one day the 'rebels' are the remainers and the next they are leavers it's a pox on all their houses. Even worse is that every time anyone rebels they hide behind the excuse that their position is not necessarily based on fundamental principle, but just because the people will get angry that it is not what the voted (or didn't) for.
Nobody really knows why people voted the way they did. Both campaigns were awful. The government can’t agree what to do so how about postponing A50 and have a people’s vote with remain, SIngle market and WTO options with factual information about what each option entails?
Is it (theoretically) possible for a government to cut short a foreign leader's visit? Can Theresa just show up tomorrow morning at Donald's room with some plane tickets for him?
Well - that would make her appear strong .... but not entirely stable
Still that would be a 50% improvement
Nonsense, it would be an act of very stable genius.
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
And after all that outrage from some on the right about Obama’s comment as well.
Yes indeed. For all the misjudgement I may have made I am in no place to judge, but I am very interested to know how this incredibly strong intervention, including what from the front page looks like a virtual endorsement of a party member to replace their leader, is ok compared to that of Obama.
I think the difference is the Obama comment was made in respect to a vote, possibly during the campaign. Trumps comment while unconventional is on the existing position, not trying to excerpt influence on a vote.
And a seeming endorsement of a leadership contender in the governing party who just very publicly quit the government. (even if all he said was that 'Boris would be great', in this context that is as good as an endorsement)
One fear I have is that even, someone, May gets a version of her plan through so we at least get some deal, even a bad one, there is clearly so much anger in the Tory party over it that whoever wins the leadership next time will probably do so on a promise to change everything about it, so the whole damn thing will just go on for even more years.
I think we are now in a situation where no potential solution has a majority in either the Commons or the electorate (including no deal and even exiting Brexit - if that is possible). May's approach is as close to an overall compromise as we are likely to see. If it is wiped out then how on earth will a new status quo that is remotely stable be achieved?
I think most of the electorate probably just want the whole d*mn thing over with and are fed up with the politicians for not just getting on with it. Given that one day the 'rebels' are the remainers and the next they are leavers it's a pox on all their houses. Even worse is that every time anyone rebels they hide behind the excuse that their position is not necessarily based on fundamental principle, but just because the people will get angry that it is not what the voted (or didn't) for.
Nobody really knows why people voted the way they did. Both campaigns were awful. The government can’t agree what to do so how about postponing A50 and have a people’s vote with remain, SIngle market and WTO options with factual information about what each option entails?
It may happen (possibly a provisionally agreed compromise deal instead of Single Market).The timing and logistics would be horrible and ther would have to be an extension of leaving date I suspect. STV? I'm guessing May's deal would win then!
I’ll laugh my arse off if it turns out that Trump has emboldened the one or two more Tories needed to reach 48 letters for a VoNC.
Merkel gets a lot of stick from the misogynistic loon brigade on here, but I don’t recall her interfering in domestic U.K. politics.
Well she, along with Corbyn, is the person most responsible for the vote to leave, although it's true that was collateral damage rather than her intention.
I’ll laugh my arse off if it turns out that Trump has emboldened the one or two more Tories needed to reach 48 letters for a VoNC.
Merkel gets a lot of stick from the misogynistic loon brigade on here, but I don’t recall her interfering in domestic U.K. politics.
Well she, along with Corbyn, is the person most responsible for the vote to leave, although it's true that was collateral damage rather than her intention.
Yes, either could have swung the result the other way.
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
And after all that outrage from some on the right about Obama’s comment as well.
Yes indeed. For all the misjudgement I may have made I am in no place to judge, but I am very interested to know how this incredibly strong intervention, including what from the front page looks like a virtual endorsement of a party member to replace their leader, is ok compared to that of Obama.
I think the difference is the Obama comment was made in respect to a vote, possibly during the campaign. Trumps comment while unconventional is on the existing position, not trying to excerpt influence on a vote.
And a seeming endorsement of a leadership contender in the governing party who just very publicly quit the government. (even if all he said was that 'Boris would be great', in this context that is as good as an endorsement)
Good for Bulgaria on making progress with Euro membership. They have already pegged their currency to the single currency, so they may as well go all-in and join it.
I think we are now in a situation where no potential solution has a majority in either the Commons or the electorate (including no deal and even exiting Brexit - if that is possible). May's approach is as close to an overall compromise as we are likely to see. If it is wiped out then how on earth will a new status quo that is remotely stable be achieved?
Maybe keep the compromise, get rid of May whom you cannot trust to do anything right. I doubt the compromise was hers anyway.
Jared O'Mara's long-delayed Maiden Speech is going to be worth watching (if you like Theatre of Cruelty productions.)
I suppose that Sheffield Labour Party selected Jared O'Mara as a symbol of the utter contempt it holds Clegg in. But in doing so they also showed they have no respect for the voters of Hallam.
Good for Bulgaria on making progress with Euro membership. They have already pegged their currency to the single currency, so they may as well go all-in and join it.
Same for Denmark.
Haven't the Danes had a referendum on Euro membership?
I am a natural optimist* but God I have nothing but contempt for (hardline) Leavers.
They've fucked the country and they've fucked the Tory party.
A fie upon them.
*Except in sport.
Don't most Tory members support a hard or no deal Brexit?
Most Tory members don't realise the consequences of a hard or no deal Brexit.
They are Corbyn enablers.
But in the same way Labour is now Corbynite because that is what the party members support, even if plenty of MPs have concerns, the Tories members clearly want a hard hard deal or no deal, even if plenty of MPs have concerns. With such views among the members, how can May possibly survive trying to get what she wants? Labour are not going to come to the rescue, even if the EU give her a win, which they show no sign of doing.
Well for Mrs May the members cannot directly force her out.
Maybe even not indirectly.
If we get a no deal Brexit with all the resultant problems the government will not last until May 2019.
It seems quite unlikely it will anyway. The MPs dare not force May out, but the members will destroy them if they don't stop her plan. Something has to give, and either way the Tory party are pretty f*cked.
No as I said the Tories will agree a transition deal until 2020 in all likelihood to help the economy and business prepare post Brexit but if no EU FTA agreed by then they will accept WTO terms to deal with the UKIP threat before the next general election
And how do the various factions in the Tory party agree to agree on any of that? The viciousness with which they reference each other is incredibly blatant.
As May has a majority for now by Dec 2020 MPs in marginal seats will be looking at the rising UKIP vote
I’ll laugh my arse off if it turns out that Trump has emboldened the one or two more Tories needed to reach 48 letters for a VoNC.
Merkel gets a lot of stick from the misogynistic loon brigade on here, but I don’t recall her interfering in domestic U.K. politics.
Well she, along with Corbyn, is the person most responsible for the vote to leave, although it's true that was collateral damage rather than her intention.
Yes, either could have swung the result the other way.
One fear I have is that even, someone, May gets a version of her plan through so we at least get some deal, even a bad one, there is clearly so much anger in the Tory party over it that whoever wins the leadership next time will probably do so on a promise to change everything about it, so the whole damn thing will just go on for even more years.
Everyone just needs to accept right now that the situation is working against an impossible deadline and they should just go with something that keeps the country moving. If they want to seek to open up the debate later, after securing a clear mandate to do so in an election, that is up to them. I suspect that IF a basic deal can be put in place, the electorate will be so fed up that trying to use international trade policy as a potential vote winner will go down like a bucket of cold sick. The problem at the moment is we have no status quo to fall back on, and that gives everyone the feeling that they have enormous leverage to stop things they don't like. Once there is a new status quo in place we can move forward in genuinely seeking things to the mutual benefit of the country and their trading partners.
One fear I have is that even, someone, May gets a version of her plan through so we at least get some deal, even a bad one, there is clearly so much anger in the Tory party over it that whoever wins the leadership next time will probably do so on a promise to change everything about it, so the whole damn thing will just go on for even more years.
The Conservative Party will surely split. The two sides are irreconcilable and I say this having voted for them in the past.
Comments
They are Corbyn enablers.
I am almost at the point of saying she should walk away and let some one else take on the futility of all this
https://twitter.com/montie/status/1017518746053865480?s=21
Trump really wants to kill any chance that Boris may have to win the Conservative leadership, doesn’t he....
Maybe even not indirectly.
If we get a no deal Brexit with all the resultant problems the government will not last until May 2019.
Soft Brexit may help the economy a bit fair enough but it is not the Brexit most Leave voters voted for but BINO
May has indeed managed Brexit disastrously and the Chequers paper precludes any FTA with the US or anyone else.
Whether he ought to stamp so entirely on diplomatic protocol is another matter. But, Brexit is Brexit. Boris will be Boris. And Donald does Donald.
Probably a good thing though, from having seen previous incarnations.
I note that Leavers favour Cable over Corbyn, so clearly not being driven by Brexitomania, but rather by other issues. Indeed in terms of unfavourable cable does much the same with Leavers as May, just a few more undecideds.
Off Topic: Moscow is a really lovely city of an evening, great food and vibes. One of the nicest cities that I have visited.
Glad you’re having a great time in Moscow. Unfortunately it’s not coming home after yesterday
One reason such moves will happen, successfully or not, is because it seems that among Tory members the Boris and David crowd have won the argument about May's plan being craptastic. Even if it isn't (I find it hard to judge, but that BBC fact check seemed to essentially say it was crap, if not in those words), it doesn't look like she has convinced the party, and the MPs can only take so much.
If May falls or the Chequers agreement does I will at that time declare for remain and back a peoples vote
She is even worse than Brown - I hadn't thought I would ever utter those words
Still that would be a 50% improvement
ah yes - the main stream of the tory party
Really.
They won't blame the man who warned about it.
You won, you will own it.
Did he mean Yeltsin or Johnson ?
Merkel gets a lot of stick from the misogynistic loon brigade on here, but I don’t recall her interfering in domestic U.K. politics.
De-stabilising NATO, HMG and endangering a Brexit deal.
Cui bono?
Same for Denmark.
I’m sure she’s mortified deep down at what she has accidentally helped to wrought.
https://twitter.com/iandunt/status/1017529659599261696?s=21
And I’m sure you’re mortified deep down at what you accidentally helped to work.