politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Davis quits possibly making a challenge to TMay more lik
Comments
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MFEOMaxPB said:
Don't worry, I think my soon to be wife agrees with my sentiments. She's no fan of modern feminists either, plus she's Swiss so to her our Conservatives are pretty tame.TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:
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It also tells you that they are terrified of being responsible for their own project. They all know the game's up.AlastairMeeks said:Steve Baker calling for Theresa May to stay? That tells you all you need to know about the numbers of the true faithful.
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Which is why I'm in favour of the deal. It's not perfect, but if it flies in Brussels then it's good enough and we can get out of the EU. What happens afterwards is something we can deal with, but being outside of the EU is the most important aspect. I still think an EEA/EFTA Brexit without the customs union makes the most sense but then I'm not particularly bothered about free movement and think there are steps we could take to reduce unskilled immigration within the single market.kjohnw said:I have reluctantly accepted that we are heading for a full fudge brexit, and can only hope that TM doesn't give the EU any more concessions (though I fully expect she will) , but at least we have managed to avoid getting sucked into a full political integration of Europe which is clearly heading for one president, one anthem, one flag, one army, one currency, ECJ, tax harmonisation, - one undemocratic superstate. we have at least escaped the worst of the EU, and when it all goes tits up, we will be on the outside - thankfully
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I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Dr Woolaston who claimed she was going to vote leave until half-way through the referendum campaign when she suddenly joined Soubry and Clarke to become the worlds most rabid Remainer.williamglenn said:
Disingenuous doesn't do her justice...0 -
No wonder you have so much time to post on PB.Pulpstar said:
Then there is the more subtle sexism. Men caused the banking crisis. Men earn more because they are more assertive in pay negotiations. One FT commentator recently complained that: ‘High-flying women are programmed to go for high-flying men. Most men aren’t attracted to women who are more successful than they are.’ Can you imagine the outrage if such trite generalisations were made about women, or other minorities? Feminists are now amongst the most obnoxious bigots.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Was he insulting women because they are women?TOPPING said:
I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
There is one good thing about May, she did sack Osborne.Scott_P said:0 -
I wouldn't say that. She's just a parliamentarian who stood for election based on her background in the health service and didn't have a fully developed view on the EU until after we had already voted to leave it.GIN1138 said:
Dr Woolaston who claimed she was going to vote leave until half-way through the referendum campaign when she suddenly joined Soubry and Clarke to become the worlds most rabid Remainer.williamglenn said:
Disingenuous doesn't do her justice...0 -
June 2016 'supermajority' for referendums: 4,000,000+rottenborough said:People's Vote petition hits 200,000
Jan 2017 'Ban Trump from visiting UK': 1,800,000
March 16 'Meningitis B vaccine for all children: 800,000
I couldn't find your 'People's Vote' petition - only this one:
Have a second referendum on leaving the EU
When the people voted to leave the EU on 26th June 2016 there was no proper debate or understanding about the implications of a decision to leave, either by the people or the government. Now the issues are clearer it is a moral and political duty to put it to the people again.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214179
Which has gained 2,212 signatures in the ±4 months its run....0 -
The one magnificent thing we can take from today is to see how totally crap the British establishment is right across the board.
Less government please they only screw it up0 -
Difficult to disagree with that.Alanbrooke said:The one magnificent thing we can take from today is to see how totally crap the British establishment is right across the board.
Less government please they only screw it up0 -
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no shes an attention seeker pure and simple always has beenwilliamglenn said:
I wouldn't say that. She's just a parliamentarian who stood for election based on her background in the health service and didn't have a fully developed view on the EU until after we had already voted to leave it.GIN1138 said:
Dr Woolaston who claimed she was going to vote leave until half-way through the referendum campaign when she suddenly joined Soubry and Clarke to become the worlds most rabid Remainer.williamglenn said:
Disingenuous doesn't do her justice...0 -
He was insulting feminists many of whom are women. People of course dismiss feminism out of hand without thought of the principles behind it like drunk Ukippers even some on here.RobD said:
Was he insulting women because they are women?TOPPING said:
I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
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If there is anything to be drawn from these events, it must be that No Deal Brexit is now far more likely.
May obviously knew that she would have to make further compromises (eg sellouts) to the EU to get her deal to fly and was preparing the ground for FOM, ECJ and ongoing transfers of funds whilst busily telling everyone that was not what she intended - eg typical May duplicity.
But the fury on the backbenches will now not just go away as a result of the resignations. And appointing Raab as Brexit minister is a sign of May's weakness. Even Leadsom is out painting her red lines. May is being told that the Chequers agreement stinks and there cannot be any more concessions - even DD made this the whole point of his resignation.
But without more concessions, the EU will not accept it. And we still have the two killer issues outstanding - the jurisdiction of the withdrawal agreement and the text of the NI backstop.
The most likely outcome now is that May cannot make the extra concessions she always knew would be required, and assumed she could make if she defeated the Leavers. As she will not discuss the only doable Brexit deal, CETA, then I would say No Deal is getting increasingly unavoidable.0 -
May is a rubbish PM — our response towards Russia has been making me far more angry than any Brexit nonsense — but I'm damned if I can think of anyone who would be significantly better at the job.Alanbrooke said:The one magnificent thing we can take from today is to see how totally crap the British establishment is right across the board.
Less government please they only screw it up0 -
Though that probably means be cannot tie himself too closely to her plansGIN1138 said:
Unless Raab has demanded Robbins is sacked from the negotiations before he took the job then it is essentially a non-job.HYUFD said:The choice of Raab as Brexit Secretary is an interesting one. A Leaver like Davis May is clearly making a sop to Brexiteers while as a former corporate lawyer with a law degree from Oxford and a Master's degree from Cambridge he should be an intellectual match for Barnier
But it could well be a spring-board to being in pole position to replace Theresa whenever the Tories pull the plug on her.0 -
Nobody actually know's whether Davis "signed up" to anything on Friday.williamglenn said:From a Tory MP:
https://twitter.com/Simonhartmp/status/1016220905746436096
We do know he (and everyone else) was threatened with humiliation if they dared to disagree with Theresa and Robbins grand plan but beyond that there is nothing anywhere to say that DD or anyone else actually pledged their agreement to this on Friday.
Theresa says they did but we all know you can't believe a word that comes out of her mouth so....0 -
Given two thirds of Tory voters voted Leave ignoring them would be the likeliest way for the Tories to dieScott_P said:0 -
I don't think criticising feminists is equivalent to criticising women.TOPPING said:
He was insulting feminists many of whom are women. People of course dismiss feminism out of hand without thought of the principles behind it like drunk Ukippers even some on here.RobD said:
Was he insulting women because they are women?TOPPING said:
I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Given two thirds of Tory voters voted Leave ignoring them would be the likeliest way for the Tories to dieScott_P said:
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She's as flaky as Louise Mensch, another attention seeker (this isn't a sexist point as there are many excellent female politicians on both sides of parliament). The only thing she hasn't done (yet) is have a hissy fit and cross the floor or quit her seat and force a by-election.Alanbrooke said:
no shes an attention seeker pure and simple always has beenwilliamglenn said:
I wouldn't say that. She's just a parliamentarian who stood for election based on her background in the health service and didn't have a fully developed view on the EU until after we had already voted to leave it.GIN1138 said:
Dr Woolaston who claimed she was going to vote leave until half-way through the referendum campaign when she suddenly joined Soubry and Clarke to become the worlds most rabid Remainer.williamglenn said:
Disingenuous doesn't do her justice...0 -
Mr PB,
"Which is why I'm in favour of the deal. It's not perfect, but if it flies in Brussels then it's good enough and we can get out of the EU."
I'm unclear as to how we are actually leaving the EU.
Can we organise our own trade deals?
Can we control our own borders? I take your point that some UK governments are quite keen on unlimited EU immigration, but that should be up to the UK voters. If a future government wants that, they shouldn't have an EU fig leaf.
I still believe that Barnier will say 'non' anyway and ask for what amounts to membership with less say.
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As I said, if the deal flies then the answer to the first two questions is yes. The issue is that I don't think it will and we'll be back to square one next week.CD13 said:Mr PB,
"Which is why I'm in favour of the deal. It's not perfect, but if it flies in Brussels then it's good enough and we can get out of the EU."
I'm unclear as to how we are actually leaving the EU.
Can we organise our own trade deals?
Can we control our own borders? I take your point that some UK governments are quite keen on unlimited EU immigration, but that should be up to the UK voters. If a future government wants that, they shouldn't have an EU fig leaf.
I still believe that Barnier will say 'non' anyway and ask for what amounts to membership with less say.0 -
Ambassador Johnson also said 'it will be all hands on deck so we get it done.' In the very same articleScott_P said:0 -
May surely must have got assurances that the deal would be mostly acceptable. Surely...?MaxPB said:
As I said, if the deal flies then the answer to the first two questions is yes. The issue is that I don't think it will and we'll be back to square one next week.CD13 said:Mr PB,
"Which is why I'm in favour of the deal. It's not perfect, but if it flies in Brussels then it's good enough and we can get out of the EU."
I'm unclear as to how we are actually leaving the EU.
Can we organise our own trade deals?
Can we control our own borders? I take your point that some UK governments are quite keen on unlimited EU immigration, but that should be up to the UK voters. If a future government wants that, they shouldn't have an EU fig leaf.
I still believe that Barnier will say 'non' anyway and ask for what amounts to membership with less say.0 -
https://www.peoples-vote.uk/petitionCarlottaVance said:
June 2016 'supermajority' for referendums: 4,000,000+rottenborough said:People's Vote petition hits 200,000
Jan 2017 'Ban Trump from visiting UK': 1,800,000
March 16 'Meningitis B vaccine for all children: 800,000
I couldn't find your 'People's Vote' petition - only this one:
Have a second referendum on leaving the EU
When the people voted to leave the EU on 26th June 2016 there was no proper debate or understanding about the implications of a decision to leave, either by the people or the government. Now the issues are clearer it is a moral and political duty to put it to the people again.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214179
Which has gained 2,212 signatures in the ±4 months its run....
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Don’t mention L***** M*****. I campaigned for her in a marginal seat and she buggered off Stateside after only a couple of years, losing the by-election on her way out. I’m not sure she’s allowed within ten miles of Corby Conservative Club.Norm said:
She's as flaky as Louise Mensch, another attention seeker (this isn't a sexist point as there are many excellent female politicians on both sides of parliament). The only thing she hasn't done (yet) is have a hissy fit and cross the floor or quit her seat and force a by-election.Alanbrooke said:
no shes an attention seeker pure and simple always has beenwilliamglenn said:
I wouldn't say that. She's just a parliamentarian who stood for election based on her background in the health service and didn't have a fully developed view on the EU until after we had already voted to leave it.GIN1138 said:
Dr Woolaston who claimed she was going to vote leave until half-way through the referendum campaign when she suddenly joined Soubry and Clarke to become the worlds most rabid Remainer.williamglenn said:
Disingenuous doesn't do her justice...0 -
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Why do Sky News do their interviews in the open air surrounded by fucking nutters?0
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He wasn't criticising them he insulted them. Big difference.RobD said:
I don't think criticising feminists is equivalent to criticising women.TOPPING said:
He was insulting feminists many of whom are women. People of course dismiss feminism out of hand without thought of the principles behind it like drunk Ukippers even some on here.RobD said:
Was he insulting women because they are women?TOPPING said:
I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
The chap with the cameraphone is far too close to the interviewee.0
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I think he did both, and neither were directed to women generally. And really, calling someone a bigot isn’t an insult if it is true.TOPPING said:
He wasn't criticising them he insulted them. Big difference.RobD said:
I don't think criticising feminists is equivalent to criticising women.TOPPING said:
He was insulting feminists many of whom are women. People of course dismiss feminism out of hand without thought of the principles behind it like drunk Ukippers even some on here.RobD said:
Was he insulting women because they are women?TOPPING said:
I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Thank you, so its not an 'official' petition we can compare the results of versus any other petition?rottenborough said:
https://www.peoples-vote.uk/petitionCarlottaVance said:
June 2016 'supermajority' for referendums: 4,000,000+rottenborough said:People's Vote petition hits 200,000
Jan 2017 'Ban Trump from visiting UK': 1,800,000
March 16 'Meningitis B vaccine for all children: 800,000
I couldn't find your 'People's Vote' petition - only this one:
Have a second referendum on leaving the EU
When the people voted to leave the EU on 26th June 2016 there was no proper debate or understanding about the implications of a decision to leave, either by the people or the government. Now the issues are clearer it is a moral and political duty to put it to the people again.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214179
Which has gained 2,212 signatures in the ±4 months its run....0 -
Many Conservatives are women. If someone insults Conservatives does that mean they're insulting women?TOPPING said:
He was insulting feminists many of whom are women. People of course dismiss feminism out of hand without thought of the principles behind it like drunk Ukippers even some on here.RobD said:
Was he insulting women because they are women?TOPPING said:
I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
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Has Barnier responded yet to the Chequers offer from May ?
The EU never misses an opportunity to overplay its hand.0 -
I am sure Louise Mensch can survive not being allowed within 10 miles of Corby Conservative Club when surveying the view from her Manhattan penthouse she shares with her very wealthy husbandSandpit said:
Don’t mention L***** M*****. I campaigned for her in a marginal seat and she buggered off Stateside after only a couple of years, losing the by-election on her way out. I’m not sure she’s allowed within ten miles of Corby Conservative Club.Norm said:
She's as flaky as Louise Mensch, another attention seeker (this isn't a sexist point as there are many excellent female politicians on both sides of parliament). The only thing she hasn't done (yet) is have a hissy fit and cross the floor or quit her seat and force a by-election.Alanbrooke said:
no shes an attention seeker pure and simple always has beenwilliamglenn said:
I wouldn't say that. She's just a parliamentarian who stood for election based on her background in the health service and didn't have a fully developed view on the EU until after we had already voted to leave it.GIN1138 said:
Dr Woolaston who claimed she was going to vote leave until half-way through the referendum campaign when she suddenly joined Soubry and Clarke to become the worlds most rabid Remainer.williamglenn said:
Disingenuous doesn't do her justice...0 -
Blame Cameronrottenborough said:
It's a damn shame the Referendum voting form didn't spell out in some small print at the bottom what 'Leave' vote meant e.g. exit EU, SM, CU.Scott_P said:Andrea Leadsom on DP
"The British public knew exactly what they were voting for"
This isn't Brexit
"I don't agree"
If Brexiteers can't agree if this is Brexit or not, how the fuck can they claim we knew what we were voting for?0 -
"Thank you, so its not an 'official' petition we can compare the results of versus any other petition?"
I've just signed a petition against a radio mast being sited close to a junior school in Wollongong. It's already got a hundred signatures and I expect my signature could sway the Canberra parliament.
17 million votes at an official referendum? Chickenfeed.0 -
Away from Brexit for a minute, there was an interesting poll conducted in Germany which put the CSU as a national option and CDU as a separate option to Bavarian voters. The result was not good for the CDU, FDP or AfD in particular.
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article177800264/Umfrage-CSU-wuerde-bei-Trennung-von-CDU-bundesweit-zweitstaerkste-Kraft.html
It was carried out last month.
CDU 22
CSU 18
SPD 17
Left 12
AfD 11
Green 10
FDP 6
I think the threat from Merkel to run candidates in Bavaria if the CSU do try and split off would easily be matched with a CSU threat to run candidates nationally, then it's anyone's game as to who becomes the larger party at the next election. There's also no workable coalition if CSU run nationally, they, AfD and the FDP probably have the most in common in terms of migration, EU scepticism and lower taxes, but they wouldn't have enough to make it over the line without the CDU or SPD. On the other side a grand coalition with the CDU and SPD would not work either, and including the greens in there to get the numbers would be the death of the CDU as a major force in German politics as voters desert them for the CSU.
Definitely one to keep an eye on, hopefully INSA make this a regular poll.0 -
They are elected representatives, so I guess Sky has to interview them on occasion.Dura_Ace said:Why do Sky News do their interviews in the open air surrounded by fucking nutters?
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eh? what is raab going to do then?Scott_P said:0 -
The CSU don't have the resources to run nationally so it's an asymmetric threat. Polls also show that Merkel is more popular than the CSU leadership in Bavaria.MaxPB said:I think the threat from Merkel to run candidates in Bavaria if the CSU do try and split off would easily be matched with a CSU threat to run candidates nationally, then it's anyone's game as to who becomes the larger party at the next election. There's also no workable coalition if CSU run nationally, they, AfD and the FDP probably have the most in common in terms of migration, EU scepticism and lower taxes, but they wouldn't have enough to make it over the line without the CDU or SPD. On the other side a grand coalition with the CDU and SPD would not work either, and including the greens in there to get the numbers would be the death of the CDU as a major force in German politics as voters desert them for the CSU.
Definitely one to keep an eye on, hopefully INSA make this a regular poll.0 -
Yes, fairly neutrally & they're waiting to see the White Paper.TGOHF said:Has Barnier responded yet to the Chequers offer from May ?
The EU never misses an opportunity to overplay its hand.
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Mr Flashman,
"The EU never misses an opportunity to overplay its hand."
They'll give it 72 hours, they wouldn't want you to think they'd made their mind up before seeing the document.0 -
The Conservatives are already on their second woman PM. Labour are yet to have their first.Philip_Thompson said:
Many Conservatives are women. If someone insults Conservatives does that mean they're insulting women?TOPPING said:
He was insulting feminists many of whom are women. People of course dismiss feminism out of hand without thought of the principles behind it like drunk Ukippers even some on here.RobD said:
Was he insulting women because they are women?TOPPING said:
I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
AfD didn't have resources either, yet they became the third largest party in 2017. The CSU would find itself very well funded to make a national run, especially if it looked like they could become the largest party.williamglenn said:
The CSU don't have the resources to run nationally so it's an asymmetric threat. Polls also show that Merkel is more popular than the CSU leadership in Bavaria.MaxPB said:I think the threat from Merkel to run candidates in Bavaria if the CSU do try and split off would easily be matched with a CSU threat to run candidates nationally, then it's anyone's game as to who becomes the larger party at the next election. There's also no workable coalition if CSU run nationally, they, AfD and the FDP probably have the most in common in terms of migration, EU scepticism and lower taxes, but they wouldn't have enough to make it over the line without the CDU or SPD. On the other side a grand coalition with the CDU and SPD would not work either, and including the greens in there to get the numbers would be the death of the CDU as a major force in German politics as voters desert them for the CSU.
Definitely one to keep an eye on, hopefully INSA make this a regular poll.0 -
really keep upwilliamglenn said:
The CSU don't have the resources to run nationally so it's an asymmetric threat. Polls also show that Merkel is more popular than the CSU leadership in Bavaria.MaxPB said:I think the threat from Merkel to run candidates in Bavaria if the CSU do try and split off would easily be matched with a CSU threat to run candidates nationally, then it's anyone's game as to who becomes the larger party at the next election. There's also no workable coalition if CSU run nationally, they, AfD and the FDP probably have the most in common in terms of migration, EU scepticism and lower taxes, but they wouldn't have enough to make it over the line without the CDU or SPD. On the other side a grand coalition with the CDU and SPD would not work either, and including the greens in there to get the numbers would be the death of the CDU as a major force in German politics as voters desert them for the CSU.
Definitely one to keep an eye on, hopefully INSA make this a regular poll.
large chunks of the CDU have said they will defect to the CSU because of Merkel, they will have no problem running nationally.
Here's one from Niedersachsen
http://www.wn.de/Welt/Politik/3364623-Niedersachsen-CDU-Landtagsvizepraesident-schliesst-CSU-Gruendung-nicht-aus
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If relations broke down and the CDU ran in Bavaria, half the CSU organisation would defect.MaxPB said:
AfD didn't have resources either, yet they became the third largest party in 2017. The CSU would find itself very well funded to make a national run, especially if it looked like they could become the largest party.williamglenn said:
The CSU don't have the resources to run nationally so it's an asymmetric threat. Polls also show that Merkel is more popular than the CSU leadership in Bavaria.MaxPB said:I think the threat from Merkel to run candidates in Bavaria if the CSU do try and split off would easily be matched with a CSU threat to run candidates nationally, then it's anyone's game as to who becomes the larger party at the next election. There's also no workable coalition if CSU run nationally, they, AfD and the FDP probably have the most in common in terms of migration, EU scepticism and lower taxes, but they wouldn't have enough to make it over the line without the CDU or SPD. On the other side a grand coalition with the CDU and SPD would not work either, and including the greens in there to get the numbers would be the death of the CDU as a major force in German politics as voters desert them for the CSU.
Definitely one to keep an eye on, hopefully INSA make this a regular poll.0 -
and probably vice versawilliamglenn said:
If relations broke down and the CDU ran in Bavaria, half the CSU organisation would defect.MaxPB said:
AfD didn't have resources either, yet they became the third largest party in 2017. The CSU would find itself very well funded to make a national run, especially if it looked like they could become the largest party.williamglenn said:
The CSU don't have the resources to run nationally so it's an asymmetric threat. Polls also show that Merkel is more popular than the CSU leadership in Bavaria.MaxPB said:I think the threat from Merkel to run candidates in Bavaria if the CSU do try and split off would easily be matched with a CSU threat to run candidates nationally, then it's anyone's game as to who becomes the larger party at the next election. There's also no workable coalition if CSU run nationally, they, AfD and the FDP probably have the most in common in terms of migration, EU scepticism and lower taxes, but they wouldn't have enough to make it over the line without the CDU or SPD. On the other side a grand coalition with the CDU and SPD would not work either, and including the greens in there to get the numbers would be the death of the CDU as a major force in German politics as voters desert them for the CSU.
Definitely one to keep an eye on, hopefully INSA make this a regular poll.
Merkel is destoying her party0 -
Feminists believe they speak for all womenRobD said:
I don't think criticising feminists is equivalent to criticising women.TOPPING said:
He was insulting feminists many of whom are women. People of course dismiss feminism out of hand without thought of the principles behind it like drunk Ukippers even some on here.RobD said:
Was he insulting women because they are women?TOPPING said:
I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:
Lefties believe that a perceived insult is as bad as an objective insult
Therefore by attacking a subgroup of feminists (“rabid”) he had, by definition, insulted all women0 -
I doubt it, in fact it would be the other way if the CSU ran nationally. The CDU leadership is well to the left of the members and lower level politicians. Having a mainstream centre right party would destroy the CDU's ability to organise nationally. They'd end up going the same way as the FDP have in Switzerland once the SVP destroyed them on the right.williamglenn said:
If relations broke down and the CDU ran in Bavaria, half the CSU organisation would defect.MaxPB said:
AfD didn't have resources either, yet they became the third largest party in 2017. The CSU would find itself very well funded to make a national run, especially if it looked like they could become the largest party.williamglenn said:
The CSU don't have the resources to run nationally so it's an asymmetric threat. Polls also show that Merkel is more popular than the CSU leadership in Bavaria.MaxPB said:I think the threat from Merkel to run candidates in Bavaria if the CSU do try and split off would easily be matched with a CSU threat to run candidates nationally, then it's anyone's game as to who becomes the larger party at the next election. There's also no workable coalition if CSU run nationally, they, AfD and the FDP probably have the most in common in terms of migration, EU scepticism and lower taxes, but they wouldn't have enough to make it over the line without the CDU or SPD. On the other side a grand coalition with the CDU and SPD would not work either, and including the greens in there to get the numbers would be the death of the CDU as a major force in German politics as voters desert them for the CSU.
Definitely one to keep an eye on, hopefully INSA make this a regular poll.0 -
Darth Gideon: Remember back to your early teachings. "All who gain power are afraid to lose it." Even the LEAVERS.GIN1138 said:
TSE: The LEAVERS use their power for good.
Darth Gideon: Good is a point of view, Anakin, er, I mean TSE. The LEAVERS and the REMAINERS are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power.
TSE: The REMAINERS rely on their passion for their strength. They think inward, only about themselves.
Darth Gideon: And the LEAVERS don't?
TSE: The LEAVERS are selfless... they only care about others.
Darth Gideon: [looking a little frustrated] Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Smithson "the Wise"?
TSE: No.
Darth Gideon: I thought not. It's not a story the LibDems would tell you. It's a Blogging legend. Darth Smithson was a Daft Lord of the Sith who lived many years ago. He was so powerful and so wise that he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create... AV threads. He had such a knowledge of the Daft Side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying from boredom on Thursday Nights.
TSE: He could do that? He could actually save people from boring themselves to death?
Darth Gideon: The Daft Side of the Force is a pathway to many policy platforms some consider to be unelectable.
TSE: What happened to him?
Darth Gideon: He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, and then one night, his apprentice wiped his servers' hard drives while he slept. It's ironic that he could save others from obscurity, but not himself.
TSE: Is it possible to learn this power?
Darth Gideon: Not from a LibDem...
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Social media is even worse. This morning I have read idiots essentially saying that Davis "left because he wants to stop May carrying out Brexit".CarlottaVance said:0 -
Hasn't Leadsome broken collective responsibility agreement declared on Friday evening?0
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Javid tweets his 'respect' for Davis and Baker
https://mobile.twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/10162865276038594610 -
How would anyone tell?rottenborough said:Hasn't Leadsome broken collective responsibility agreement declared on Friday evening?
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Does anyone actually know what the "agreement" means?rottenborough said:Hasn't Leadsome broken collective responsibility agreement declared on Friday evening?
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"The EU referendum shows how the sovereignty of Britain's people can now trump its Parliament," Vernon Bogdanor.
Didn't this bloke teach Cameron?0 -
No, she promised Javid no special treatment for EU citizens. They were trying to walk it back yesterday, but I expect Javid has been on the blower and now Leadsome has tried to shut the door on it.rottenborough said:Hasn't Leadsome broken collective responsibility agreement declared on Friday evening?
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Has the record for the longest suicide note in history been beaten by the EU Withdrawal Act?0
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Is it the equivalent of criticising the dear leader?RobD said:
I don't think criticising feminists is equivalent to criticising women.TOPPING said:
He was insulting feminists many of whom are women. People of course dismiss feminism out of hand without thought of the principles behind it like drunk Ukippers even some on here.RobD said:
Was he insulting women because they are women?TOPPING said:
I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/fawcettsociety/31158682500 -
No. Cameron wanted us to remain. It was up to leave to decide what 'leave' meant (and means). Something they're singularly incapable of doing.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Blame Cameronrottenborough said:
It's a damn shame the Referendum voting form didn't spell out in some small print at the bottom what 'Leave' vote meant e.g. exit EU, SM, CU.Scott_P said:Andrea Leadsom on DP
"The British public knew exactly what they were voting for"
This isn't Brexit
"I don't agree"
If Brexiteers can't agree if this is Brexit or not, how the fuck can they claim we knew what we were voting for?0 -
And based on this deal the EU and ECJ will trump both parliament and the sovereignty of the British people. Accept their rules or face the consequences!CD13 said:"The EU referendum shows how the sovereignty of Britain's people can now trump its Parliament," Vernon Bogdanor.
Didn't this bloke teach Cameron?0 -
Explain to Sam Coates the difference between pairing and paring ?rottenborough said:
eh? what is raab going to do then?Scott_P said:0 -
Yeah good hair to split. Even Theresa slapped him down but to you lot he's doing a-ok.Philip_Thompson said:
Many Conservatives are women. If someone insults Conservatives does that mean they're insulting women?TOPPING said:
He was insulting feminists many of whom are women. People of course dismiss feminism out of hand without thought of the principles behind it like drunk Ukippers even some on here.RobD said:
Was he insulting women because they are women?TOPPING said:
I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Cameron called the Referendum:JosiasJessop said:
No. Cameron wanted us to remain. It was up to leave to decide what 'leave' meant (and means). Something they're singularly incapable of doing.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Blame Cameronrottenborough said:
It's a damn shame the Referendum voting form didn't spell out in some small print at the bottom what 'Leave' vote meant e.g. exit EU, SM, CU.Scott_P said:Andrea Leadsom on DP
"The British public knew exactly what they were voting for"
This isn't Brexit
"I don't agree"
If Brexiteers can't agree if this is Brexit or not, how the fuck can they claim we knew what we were voting for?
[Vilos Cohaagen voice] "First you gave the Leavers their Referendum, and then you let them win it!"0 -
Cameron made enough Tories believe he could back Leave that they felt betrayed when he didn't. His mismanagement of the whole issue is at the root of this.JosiasJessop said:
No. Cameron wanted us to remain. It was up to leave to decide what 'leave' meant (and means). Something they're singularly incapable of doing.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Blame Cameronrottenborough said:
It's a damn shame the Referendum voting form didn't spell out in some small print at the bottom what 'Leave' vote meant e.g. exit EU, SM, CU.Scott_P said:Andrea Leadsom on DP
"The British public knew exactly what they were voting for"
This isn't Brexit
"I don't agree"
If Brexiteers can't agree if this is Brexit or not, how the fuck can they claim we knew what we were voting for?0 -
Presumably Boris has to choose between resigning now and looking as if he’s been bounced into it, or crossing his fingers that he’ll have a plausible opportunity to flounce on ‘principle’ when the next betrayal comes along, thereby redeeming himself as the hero of all true Brexiters.Scott_P said:0 -
The headbangers feel betrayed every time the sun rises in the Eastwilliamglenn said:Cameron made enough Tories believe he could back Leave that they felt betrayed when he didn't.
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Such a mess and we haven't even left yet, that's when the real truth especially financially of the decision will be revealed. That's why for the most part I haven't been following the topic of Brexit much since the referendum result, a lot of this is just noise right now.
In regards to May's future, I am still backing May to stay on at least for another year. Confident she will win any vote right now.0 -
"Liberal Europe isn’t dead yet. But its defenders face a long, hard struggle
Timothy Garton Ash"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/09/liberal-europe-isnt-dead-struggle0 -
That seems to be it.Polruan said:Presumably Boris has to choose between resigning now and looking as if he’s been bounced into it, or crossing his fingers that he’ll have a plausible opportunity to flounce on ‘principle’ when the next betrayal comes along, thereby redeeming himself as the hero of all true Brexiters.
He comprehensively missed the boat this weekend.0 -
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Maybe he made a wrong turn and ended up at the Eastern Balkans?Scott_P said:
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Your point being?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Cameron called the Referendum:JosiasJessop said:
No. Cameron wanted us to remain. It was up to leave to decide what 'leave' meant (and means). Something they're singularly incapable of doing.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Blame Cameronrottenborough said:
It's a damn shame the Referendum voting form didn't spell out in some small print at the bottom what 'Leave' vote meant e.g. exit EU, SM, CU.Scott_P said:Andrea Leadsom on DP
"The British public knew exactly what they were voting for"
This isn't Brexit
"I don't agree"
If Brexiteers can't agree if this is Brexit or not, how the fuck can they claim we knew what we were voting for?
[Vilos Cohaagen voice] "First you gave the Leavers their Referendum, and then you let them win it!"0 -
If you don't like that then it's going to be hard to make trade deals. If the other side doesn't keep their promises, you need somebody to arbitrate, and a mechanism to make them actually obey the judgements of whoever that is, regardless of the wishes the parliament and the people of the country that's breaking its promises. So modern trade deals nearly always include the ability to override the wishes of a sovereign government, much to the annoyance of Greens and people on the anti-corporate left.brendan16 said:
And based on this deal the EU and ECJ will trump both parliament and the sovereignty of the British people. Accept their rules or face the consequences!
A national government is of course always sovereign in that it can leave any treaty it's signed then go back to doing what it likes, but that would also be the case here.0 -
seventh and eighth boys out of the cave.
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That sounds about right, I think he has until the end of the working day to figure out whether he wants to cling on at the FCO for another few months or have a go at the top prize though. There won't be another chance as good as this to bring May down. Davis has opened the door for him.Polruan said:
Presumably Boris has to choose between resigning now and looking as if he’s been bounced into it, or crossing his fingers that he’ll have a plausible opportunity to flounce on ‘principle’ when the next betrayal comes along, thereby redeeming himself as the hero of all true Brexiters.Scott_P said:0 -
Me? Are you kidding? Hey, I was with you all the time! That was beautiful! Did you see the way the Leavers fell into our trap? Ha Ha!Scott_P said:
The headbangers feel betrayed every time the sun rises in the Eastwilliamglenn said:Cameron made enough Tories believe he could back Leave that they felt betrayed when he didn't.
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I fear this comes down to the problem with the term 'Eurosceptic'. For Europhobes, this means someone in line with them, who wants to leave. For Europhiles, it means someone in line with the europhobes. In the eyes of the extremes, there is no middle ground.williamglenn said:
Cameron made enough Tories believe he could back Leave that they felt betrayed when he didn't. His mismanagement of the whole issue is at the root of this.JosiasJessop said:
No. Cameron wanted us to remain. It was up to leave to decide what 'leave' meant (and means). Something they're singularly incapable of doing.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Blame Cameronrottenborough said:
It's a damn shame the Referendum voting form didn't spell out in some small print at the bottom what 'Leave' vote meant e.g. exit EU, SM, CU.Scott_P said:Andrea Leadsom on DP
"The British public knew exactly what they were voting for"
This isn't Brexit
"I don't agree"
If Brexiteers can't agree if this is Brexit or not, how the fuck can they claim we knew what we were voting for?0 -
Javid, Leadsome and we assume others were apparently told that the deal meant an end to free movement and no preferential treatment for EU citizens in terms of access to the UK over non EU citizens. Or that is what they are claiming was agreed. Yet on Saturday May denied that was the case.Polruan said:
Presumably Boris has to choose between resigning now and looking as if he’s been bounced into it, or crossing his fingers that he’ll have a plausible opportunity to flounce on ‘principle’ when the next betrayal comes along, thereby redeeming himself as the hero of all true Brexiters.Scott_P said:
Surely that is grounds - as May has already reneged on her deal with her Cabinet? Well that is how you could spin it as ending FOM was a key part if not the key driver of the leave result.0 -
It takes time to write two different and opposing versions of the same speech...Scott_P said:0 -
Er, Blame Cameron, as pointed out above?JosiasJessop said:
Your point being?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Cameron called the Referendum:JosiasJessop said:
No. Cameron wanted us to remain. It was up to leave to decide what 'leave' meant (and means). Something they're singularly incapable of doing.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Blame Cameronrottenborough said:
It's a damn shame the Referendum voting form didn't spell out in some small print at the bottom what 'Leave' vote meant e.g. exit EU, SM, CU.Scott_P said:Andrea Leadsom on DP
"The British public knew exactly what they were voting for"
This isn't Brexit
"I don't agree"
If Brexiteers can't agree if this is Brexit or not, how the fuck can they claim we knew what we were voting for?
[Vilos Cohaagen voice] "First you gave the Leavers their Referendum, and then you let them win it!"0 -
Well yes, that's how international trade agreements are enforced. For all of Brexiteers' enthusiasm for "out own trade deals" they don't seem to understand the basics...brendan16 said:
And based on this deal the EU and ECJ will trump both parliament and the sovereignty of the British people. Accept their rules or face the consequences!CD13 said:"The EU referendum shows how the sovereignty of Britain's people can now trump its Parliament," Vernon Bogdanor.
Didn't this bloke teach Cameron?0 -
I never said he's doing a ok. I just thought your logic was awful.TOPPING said:
Yeah good hair to split. Even Theresa slapped him down but to you lot he's doing a-ok.Philip_Thompson said:
Many Conservatives are women. If someone insults Conservatives does that mean they're insulting women?TOPPING said:
He was insulting feminists many of whom are women. People of course dismiss feminism out of hand without thought of the principles behind it like drunk Ukippers even some on here.RobD said:
Was he insulting women because they are women?TOPPING said:
I think insulting women because they are women can be seen as misogynist.RobD said:
Does what he said really constitute misogyny?TOPPING said:
Championing a potentially misogynist sentiment in advance of your own wedding (assuming he is marrying a woman) is I don't think well-judged.Pulpstar said:
What's his wedding got to do with anything ?TOPPING said:
Max not a good look especially in advance of your wedding.MaxPB said:
I like him even more now, Raab4Leader!TheScreamingEagles said:
That's a judgement on you. Not Theresa or anyone else.0 -
Steve Baker's resignation letter was particularly interesting, for this little snippet:AlastairMeeks said:Steve Baker calling for Theresa May to stay? That tells you all you need to know about the numbers of the true faithful.
The policy for our future relationship with the EU agreed by the Cabinet on 6 July will be the centrepiece of DExEU’s work. I acknowledge the Parliamentary opinion and arithmetic which constrain the Government’s freedom of action but I cannot support this policy with the sincerity and resolve which will be necessary. I therefore write with regret to resign from the Government.
So, at least one Brexiteer can count. It was also a dignified reason for resignation.0 -
Federer wins the first set 6-0 against Mannarino in 16 minutes.0
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GOAT....AndyJS said:Federer wins the first set 6-0 against Mannarino in 16 minutes.
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