politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The danger for LAB is that its equivocation over Brexit could

Charles said:

TOPPING said:

.

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

Stark_Dawning said:

I doubt Jezza is remotely bothered about the anti-Brexit vote. The man is clearly itching for the hardest possible Brexit for two reasons:

1) The resulting economic misery and chaos will see the Tories hurled from office.
2) He can then build his socialist utopia in Britain unfettered by the neo-liberal restraints of the EU.

He'll probably appoint Rees-Mogg and Farage to his politburo - they've been enormously helpful.

On what basis? Hard Brexiteers would stick to the Tories but some Remainer Labour voters would shift LD and Remainer Tories would still not touch Corbyn with a bargepole.

Though I agree hard Brexit would suit the socialism he wants to implement in government just fine

I know that plenty of Remainer Tories voted for Corbyn because I canvassed 100s of them last year.

Yes they will vote Tory to keep out Corbyn regardless of Brexit

What are you talking about? They voted Labour at last year's GE. They didn't vote Tory. ie unTory. No Tory. Nil Tory.

Do you have anyway to judge the extent to which that was because he “couldn’t win”?

No. But the people seemed furious (bear in mind they were middle class, metropolitan elite, probably luvvies, many in big houses). I didn't get the feeling that it was a calculated push but be careful how much we push move.

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

TOPPING said:

.

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

Stark_Dawning said:

I doubt Jezza is remotely bothered about the anti-Brexit vote. The man is clearly itching for the hardest possible Brexit for two reasons:

1) The resulting economic misery and chaos will see the Tories hurled from office.
2) He can then build his socialist utopia in Britain unfettered by the neo-liberal restraints of the EU.

He'll probably appoint Rees-Mogg and Farage to his politburo - they've been enormously helpful.

On what basis? Hard Brexiteers would stick to the Tories but some Remainer Labour voters would shift LD and Remainer Tories would still not touch Corbyn with a bargepole.

Though I agree hard Brexit would suit the socialism he wants to implement in government just fine

I know that plenty of Remainer Tories voted for Corbyn because I canvassed 100s of them last year.

Yes they will vote Tory to keep out Corbyn regardless of Brexit

What are you talking about? They voted Labour at last year's GE. They didn't vote Tory. ie unTory. No Tory. Nil Tory.

I would love to see HYUFD canvassing such people. He probably wouldn't believe the were Tory voters in the first place.

I don't. The Tory vote went up by 2.3 million votes between 2015 and 2017. I don't believe any significant number of Tory votes switched to Corbyn.

The doorstep never lies. Hundreds and hundreds. The constituency went from a Lab-Con marginal to a safe Lab seat. First time I've been called a nazi on the doorstep also, by a disgusted (at the thought of registering aliens) previous Cons voter.

I haven't canvassed the entire United Kingdom (tbf like @HYUFD seems to have done) but unless the air is special down where I was I have to believe that such sentiments, if milder, exist around the country.

You were in a surburban marginal in Greater London?

I didn’t get any of that down in Southampton Test. I did clearly read the canvass returns incorrectly, however.

As I said, I've no idea whether the air is different around the country, thus producing different types of Tories but the contention was (somewhere way back) that "Remainer Tories would still not touch Corbyn with a bargepole", and it looks like hundreds if not thousands of them did just that where I was last year.

felix said:

TOPPING said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

TOPPING said:

.

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

Stark_Dawning said:

I doubt Jezza is remotely bothered about the anti-Brexit vote. The man is clearly itching for the hardest possible Brexit for two reasons:

1) The resulting economic misery and chaos will see the Tories hurled from office.
2) He can then build his socialist utopia in Britain unfettered by the neo-liberal restraints of the EU.

He'll probably appoint Rees-Mogg and Farage to his politburo - they've been enormously helpful.

On what basis? Hard Brexiteers would stick to the Tories but some Remainer Labour voters would shift LD and Remainer Tories would still not touch Corbyn with a bargepole.

Though I agree hard Brexit would suit the socialism he wants to implement in government just fine

I know that plenty of Remainer Tories voted for Corbyn because I canvassed 100s of them last year.

Yes they will vote Tory to keep out Corbyn regardless of Brexit

What are you talking about? They voted Labour at last year's GE. They didn't vote Tory. ie unTory. No Tory. Nil Tory.

I would love to see HYUFD canvassing such people. He probably wouldn't believe the were Tory voters in the first place.

I don't. The Tory vote went up by 2.3 million votes between 2015 and 2017. I don't believe any significant number of Tory votes switched to Corbyn.

The doorstep never lies. Hundreds and hundreds. The constituency went from a Lab-Con marginal to a safe Lab seat. First time I've been called a nazi on the doorstep also, by a disgusted (at the thought of registering aliens) previous Cons voter.

I haven't canvassed the entire United Kingdom (tbf like @HYUFD seems to have done) but unless the air is special down where I was I have to believe that such sentiments, if milder, exist around the country.

So is that why Labour won such a big overall majority... oh...wait...

In that constituency yes absolutely (your wait is over).

TOPPING said:

What are you talking about? They voted Labour at last year's GE. They didn't vote Tory. ie unTory. No Tory. Nil Tory.

Tory, Nul Points.

Oh, sorry, that's a bit too European for the modern Conservative Party.

Philip_Thompson said:

Brexit is an event not a dividing line.

Bollocks.

When 48% (at the last count) don't want it, that's a divide.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/03/vip-paedophile-accuser-nick-charged-perverting-course-justice/

Credible and true, they said. Tom Watson should be sacked for this farce and pay the full £2.5m cost of the investigation.

Scott_P said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Brexit is an event not a dividing line.

Bollocks.

When 48% (at the last count) don't want it, that's a divide.

But, not all of those 48% feel as strongly about it as you do.

My sense is about 25% do on the pro EU side, and about 30% on the Brexit side, and you’ve got 45% of the electorate who are somewhere in the middle and would probably rather be talking about something else.

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

TOPPING said:

.

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

Stark_Dawning said:

I doubt Jezza is remotely bothered about the anti-Brexit vote. The man is clearly itching for the hardest possible Brexit for two reasons:

1) The resulting economic misery and chaos will see the Tories hurled from office.
2) He can then build his socialist utopia in Britain unfettered by the neo-liberal restraints of the EU.

He'll probably appoint Rees-Mogg and Farage to his politburo - they've been enormously helpful.

On what basis? Hard Brexiteers would stick to the Tories but some Remainer Labour voters would shift LD and Remainer Tories would still not touch Corbyn with a bargepole.

Though I agree hard Brexit would suit the socialism he wants to implement in government just fine

I know that plenty of Remainer Tories voted for Corbyn because I canvassed 100s of them last year.

Yes they will vote Tory to keep out Corbyn regardless of Brexit

What are you talking about? They voted Labour at last year's GE. They didn't vote Tory. ie unTory. No Tory. Nil Tory.

I would love to see HYUFD canvassing such people. He probably wouldn't believe the were Tory voters in the first place.

I don't. The Tory vote went up by 2.3 million votes between 2015 and 2017. I don't believe any significant number of Tory votes switched to Corbyn.

The doorstep never lies. Hundreds and hundreds. The constituency went from a Lab-Con marginal to a safe Lab seat. First time I've been called a nazi on the doorstep also, by a disgusted (at the thought of registering aliens) previous Cons voter.

I haven't canvassed the entire United Kingdom (tbf like @HYUFD seems to have done) but unless the air is special down where I was I have to believe that such sentiments, if milder, exist around the country.

You were in a surburban marginal in Greater London?

I didn’t get any of that down in Southampton Test. I did clearly read the canvass returns incorrectly, however.

As I said, I've no idea whether the air is different around the country, thus producing different types of Tories but the contention was (somewhere way back) that "Remainer Tories would still not touch Corbyn with a bargepole", and it looks like hundreds if not thousands of them did just that where I was last year.

Clearly in certain places that was true.

Casino_Royale said:

Scott_P said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Brexit is an event not a dividing line.

Bollocks.

When 48% (at the last count) don't want it, that's a divide.

But, not all of those 48% feel as strongly about it as you do.

My sense is about 25% do on the pro EU side, and about 30% on the Brexit side, and you’ve got 45% of the electorate who are somewhere in the middle and would probably rather be talking about something else.

The last YouGov poll has 19% strongly approving of EU membership and 20% strongly disapproving. That's a lot of people in the middle who are potential swing voters in a second referendum.

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hit82jf794/HandelsblattResults_June18_Topline_client_w.pdf

Casino_Royale said:

Scott_P said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Brexit is an event not a dividing line.

Bollocks.

When 48% (at the last count) don't want it, that's a divide.

But, not all of those 48% feel as strongly about it as you do.

My sense is about 25% do on the pro EU side, and about 30% on the Brexit side, and you’ve got 45% of the electorate who are somewhere in the middle and would probably rather be talking about something else.

I doubt it's even that high. Post-Brexit Lib Dems peaked last year at 7.9% and pre-Brexit UKIP peaked at 12.6% and people have other reasons to vote for these protest parties.

The people whose votes will be swung solely on Brexit now are probably no more than 10% if that. They'll care about Brexit while its a live issue but other issues take priority.

Philip_Thompson said:

I doubt it's even that high. Post-Brexit Lib Dems peaked last year at 7.9% and pre-Brexit UKIP peaked at 12.6% and people have other reasons to vote for these protest parties.

The people whose votes will be swung solely on Brexit now are probably no more than 10% if that. They'll care about Brexit while its a live issue but other issues take priority.

The War will be over by Christmas...

TOPPING said:

Philip_Thompson said:

TOPPING said:

felix said:

TOPPING said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

TOPPING said:

.

HYUFD said:

TOPPING said:

HYUFD said:

Stark_Dawning said:

I doubt Jezza is remotely bothered about the anti-Brexit vote. The man is clearly itching for the hardest possible Brexit for two reasons:

1) The resulting economic misery and chaos will see the Tories hurled from office.
2) He can then build his socialist utopia in Britain unfettered by the neo-liberal restraints of the EU.

He'll probably appoint Rees-Mogg and Farage to his politburo - they've been enormously helpful.

fine

I kear.

Yes texit

Wry.

I would love to see HYUFD canvassing such people. He probably wouldn't believe the were Tory voters in the first place.

I don't. The Tory vote went up by 2.3 million votes between 2015 and 2017. I don't believe any significant number of Tory votes switched to Corbyn.

The doorstep never lies. Hundreds and hundreds. The constituency went from a Lab-Con marginal to a safe Lab seat. First time I've been called a nazi on the doorstep also, by a disgusted (at the thought of registering aliens) previous Cons voter.

I haven't canvassed the entire United Kingdom (tbf like @HYUFD seems to have done) but unless the air is special down where I was I have to believe that such sentiments, if milder, exist around the country.

So is that why Labour won such a big overall majority... oh...wait...

In that constituency yes absolutely (your wait is over).

Which constituency was it out of curiosity? I'd be curious to see how much the Tory vote fell by in that constituency.

Labour lost by less than forecast not by winning over Tories but by hoovering up the non-Tories.

Ealing Central and Acton.

Cons vote fell by 2,500. Turnout up 4,500, Lab vote up by 11,000, registered electors down by 2,800.

Let's assume Greens and Kippers (2,000 apiece, didn't stand) went Lab and Cons respectively. Plus let's assume all those extra who voted this time went Lab. So:

Lab = 33,000 = 22,000 + 2,000 Green + 4,500 new voters + 4,500 Cons
Cons = 19,200 = 21,700 + 2,000 UKIP - 4,500 Cons!

Interesting constituency, bucks a number of national trends. Firstly I dispute all UKIP votes went Tory, that was never a sound assumption. UKIP votes were largely protest ones. Worth noting Tories still got more than in 2010.

Pulpstar said:

Post GE2017 a couple of themes emerged which looked right at first glance but actually weren't.

i) Labour had a massive youthquake. Not to nearly the same extent as people made out
ii) The UKIP didn't go heavily Tory as expected. It did

I'd be very surprised if there weren't a significant number of Tory -> Lab switchers in heavily remain areas quite honestly - @Topping anecdote for EC&A seems fair enough to me.

There were quite a few even in heavily Leave areas. I think I had enough Lab --> Con (and UKIP --> Con) swing to win Don Valley, but couldn't contend with DNV --> Lab and Con --> Lab on top.

Not to mention some UKIP --> Lab; as previously discussed I think I'd have been marginally better off if they'd stood. Anyone still voting UKIP was essentially anti-establishment-sod-the-lot-of-you: without a UKIP candidate on the paper they're surely most likely to vote Corbyn?

Casino_Royale said:

Scott_P said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Brexit is an event not a dividing line.

Bollocks.

When 48% (at the last count) don't want it, that's a divide.

But, not all of those 48% feel as strongly about it as you do.

My sense is about 25% do on the pro EU side, and about 30% on the Brexit side, and you’ve got 45% of the electorate who are somewhere in the middle and would probably rather be talking about something else.

It would be nice to get Number Cruncher Politics's rejoin question asked every quarter or so; if it remains as-is then that's probably true and we can all move on to bicker about something else. If it starts to head back towards evens then we can spend the next decade rehashing the last two years of arguments.

O/T. Why do so many of our flags have ENGLAND written across them?
Other countries don't feel the need to deface their flags in such a shouty manner.

JonnyJimmy said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/1014136679915978752

"She ignored advice was Shami Chakrabarti and ploughed on anyway"

She whitewashed an enquiry into antisemitism during an event in
Brighton?!?

I have no idea where people get these ideas from...

Jeremy Corbyn's Labour is breeding 'softcore' Holocaust denial, a leading academic has warned.

Deborah Lipstadt, who rose to prominence in a legal battle with historian David Irving in 2000 after accusing him of Holocast denial, said anti-Semitism was 'embedded' in Labour.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5913129/Corbyns-Labour-Party-breeding-softcore-Holocaust-denial-claims-leading-academic.html

https://twitter.com/BBCParliament/status/1014136145989513218

Tissue_Price said:

Pulpstar said:

Post GE2017 a couple of themes emerged which looked right at first glance but actually weren't.

i) Labour had a massive youthquake. Not to nearly the same extent as people made out
ii) The UKIP didn't go heavily Tory as expected. It did

I'd be very surprised if there weren't a significant number of Tory -> Lab switchers in heavily remain areas quite honestly - @Topping anecdote for EC&A seems fair enough to me.

There were quite a few even in heavily Leave areas. I think I had enough Lab --> Con (and UKIP --> Con) swing to win Don Valley, but couldn't contend with DNV --> Lab and Con --> Lab on top.

Not to mention some UKIP --> Lab; as previously discussed I think I'd have been marginally better off if they'd stood. Anyone still voting UKIP was essentially anti-establishment-sod-the-lot-of-you: without a UKIP candidate on the paper they're surely most likely to vote Corbyn?

How much time did you split between the various bits of the constituency, did you venture out to Edlington much or prefer to spend time in Tickhill

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Breaking News

CPS says a man known only as 'Nick' whose claims led to the operation Midland Paedophile Investigation in Westminster will be charged with 12 counts of perverting the course of justice and one count of fraud

Over to you Tom Watson

Its quite incredible that Watson still have a leading role in a political party, especially given we live in an environment where touching a ladies knee 20 years ago is enough to lose your job.

Pulpstar said:

Tissue_Price said:

Pulpstar said:

Post GE2017 a couple of themes emerged which looked right at first glance but actually weren't.

i) Labour had a massive youthquake. Not to nearly the same extent as people made out
ii) The UKIP didn't go heavily Tory as expected. It did

I'd be very surprised if there weren't a significant number of Tory -> Lab switchers in heavily remain areas quite honestly - @Topping anecdote for EC&A seems fair enough to me.

There were quite a few even in heavily Leave areas. I think I had enough Lab --> Con (and UKIP --> Con) swing to win Don Valley, but couldn't contend with DNV --> Lab and Con --> Lab on top.

Not to mention some UKIP --> Lab; as previously discussed I think I'd have been marginally better off if they'd stood. Anyone still voting UKIP was essentially anti-establishment-sod-the-lot-of-you: without a UKIP candidate on the paper they're surely most likely to vote Corbyn?

How much time did you split between the various bits of the constituency, did you venture out to Edlington much or prefer to spend time in Tickhill

I spent the majority of my time in the "old Labour" areas - that's where the target voters were. Including breaking up a spectacular near-fight in Edlington between an ex-miner and someone delivering my leaflets: the guy was so offended to have a leaflet delivered through his door he came out and chucked it back at us even though we were 30 yards up the road by then.

Charles said:

Scott_P said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Brexit is an event not a dividing line.

Bollocks.

When 48% (at the last count) don't want it, that's a divide.

48% didn’t vote for it. That doesn’t mean they don’t want it now

Same applies in opposite direction for the 52%.

TheScreamingEagles said:

dixiedean said:

O/T. Why do so many of our flags have ENGLAND written across them?
Other countries don't feel the need to deface their flags in such a shouty manner.

Because our patron saint is a Jonny Foreigner our flag is used by other countries.

Our flag can be mistaken for the flag of Georgia so we have to put England on it to avoid confusion.

Why didn't the sun set on the British Empire?

'Cos God didn't rust the English in the dark!

Scott_P said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I doubt it's even that high. Post-Brexit Lib Dems peaked last year at 7.9% and pre-Brexit UKIP peaked at 12.6% and people have other reasons to vote for these protest parties.

The people whose votes will be swung solely on Brexit now are probably no more than 10% if that. They'll care about Brexit while its a live issue but other issues take priority.

The War will be over by Christmas...

Nah the war will never end but the war is between left and right.

Brexit is a mere skirmish in comparison.

Nigelb said:

dixiedean said:

O/T. Why do so many of our flags have ENGLAND written across them?
Other countries don't feel the need to deface their flags in such a shouty manner.

Well there are also Iraq and Saudi Arabia's...

Wales?

OldKingCole said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

dixiedean said:

O/T. Why do so many of our flags have ENGLAND written across them?
Other countries don't feel the need to deface their flags in such a shouty manner.

Because our patron saint is a Jonny Foreigner our flag is used by other countries.

Our flag can be mistaken for the flag of Georgia so we have to put England on it to avoid confusion.

Why didn't the sun set on the British Empire?

'Cos God didn't rust the English in the dark!

Yep, we're made of tougher stuff than iron!

I think there's a temptation to put too much store in Brexit preferences in guessing how protest votes will move.

Feels to me like there's a large, unpredictable, emotional and probably growing Screw You Vote which can manifest itself in different ways each time (from LibDems in 2010 to UKIP mid-parliament to Brexit to Corbyn).

Part of the unpredictability is that it's different people each time (the green left in 2010; wwc in 2016), but also that any of those groups may well change their views over time (enthusiastic supporters of hard Brexit will soon kick a government which delivers a personal economic downturn as a result).

So.. while I agree with Mike's analysis that there are disenfranchised remainers looking for a home, I think there are dangers in applying too much logic to the swings.

Scott_P said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Brexit is an event not a dividing line.

Bollocks.

When 48% (at the last count) don't want it, that's a divide.

Yup that is one big divide.
Seems a bit churlish to even deny such a division.

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

Scott_P said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Brexit is an event not a dividing line.

Bollocks.

When 48% (at the last count) don't want it, that's a divide.

But, not all of those 48% feel as strongly about it as you do.

My sense is about 25% do on the pro EU side, and about 30% on the Brexit side, and you’ve got 45% of the electorate who are somewhere in the middle and would probably rather be talking about something else.

The last YouGov poll has 19% strongly approving of EU membership and 20% strongly disapproving. That's a lot of people in the middle who are potential swing voters in a second referendum.

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hit82jf794/HandelsblattResults_June18_Topline_client_w.pdf

You are obsessed.

https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1014146487377424385

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1014140902225469440

Good news for the Lib Dems and Conservatives of Sheffield Hallam.
Maybe, a year after the election, their Labour MP might deign to give the House the honour of a Maiden Speech?

dixiedean said:

O/T. Why do so many of our flags have ENGLAND written across them?
Other countries don't feel the need to deface their flags in such a shouty manner.

I think it's perceived as added value. How do you differentiate your flag from the dozens of other identical flags? How do you choose between dozens of identical flags?

BREXIT Time is the Fav in the next race at Hamilton 6/5 i am on

DYOR

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

Scott_P said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Brexit is an event not a dividing line.

Bollocks.

When 48% (at the last count) don't want it, that's a divide.

But, not all of those 48% feel as strongly about it as you do.

My sense is about 25% do on the pro EU side, and about 30% on the Brexit side, and you’ve got 45% of the electorate who are somewhere in the middle and would probably rather be talking about something else.

The last YouGov poll has 19% strongly approving of EU membership and 20% strongly disapproving. That's a lot of people in the middle who are potential swing voters in a second referendum.

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hit82jf794/HandelsblattResults_June18_Topline_client_w.pdf

That shows precisely why there won't be one. 81% of the country are either happy with, content with or resigned to Brexit.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Which state has the record for winning naval battles in (what is today territory of) Switzerland?

[NB I'm aware it's landlocked].

TheScreamingEagles said:

That Swedish striker couldn't score in a brothel

Maybe his problem is he has been doing too much of that...

Press Association
‏
#Breaking A man known only as Nick whose claims sparked the Operation Midland paedophile investigation in Westminster will be charged with 12 counts of perverting the course of justice and one count of fraud, the Crown Prosecution Service says

Paging Tom Watson.,paging Tom Watson

MarqueeMark said:

Who should England fans cheer for in this game?

After the recent fiasco that IKEA have inflicted upon me I'm cheering for Switzerland.

Oh yeah I backed Sweden at summat like 70s the other day.

Plus I love the country that gave the world ABBA.

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

Scott_P said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Brexit is an event not a dividing line.

Bollocks.

When 48% (at the last count) don't want it, that's a divide.

But, not all of those 48% feel as strongly about it as you do.

My sense is about 25% do on the pro EU side, and about 30% on the Brexit side, and you’ve got 45% of the electorate who are somewhere in the middle and would probably rather be talking about something else.

The last YouGov poll has 19% strongly approving of EU membership and 20% strongly disapproving. That's a lot of people in the middle who are potential swing voters in a second referendum.

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hit82jf794/HandelsblattResults_June18_Topline_client_w.pdf

That shows precisely why there won't be one. 81% of the country are either happy with, content with or resigned to Brexit.

80% of the country are either opposed to Brexit or not that fussed about Brexit. That's why Brexit cannot survive any seriously disruptive events.

You don't need to be fussed to accept what has happened. You need to be fussed to reverse it.

bigjohnowls said:

BREXIT Time is the Fav in the next race at Hamilton 6/5 i am on

DYOR

Won easy in end in trouble for most of race (stewards!!)

https://twitter.com/simonfromharlow/status/1013895660154834945

Morris_Dancer said:

Good afternoon, everyone.

Which state has the record for winning naval battles in (what is today territory of) Switzerland?

[NB I'm aware it's landlocked].

Dunno but HMS Gleaner (since paid off by the Fireplace Salesman) was the last RN vessel to visit Switzerland. Spare a thought for the jacks who signed up for the fleshpots of Manila and ended up supping 10 quid coffees in Basel.

I feel sure someone must have pointed it out, but if not, Corbyn doesn't give a jot about becoming PM. All he cares about is turning Labour into a far left party, positioning in the polls to him is irrelevant.(because he will never win and knows it.)

RobD said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Good afternoon, everyone.

Which state has the record for winning naval battles in (what is today territory of) Switzerland?

[NB I'm aware it's landlocked].

On a related note, wasn’t the EU fisheries commissioner recently Austrian, that famous naval power.

Wasn't Austria the major power in the defeat of the Turks at lepanto?

OldKingCole said:

RobD said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Good afternoon, everyone.

Which state has the record for winning naval battles in (what is today territory of) Switzerland?

[NB I'm aware it's landlocked].

On a related note, wasn’t the EU fisheries commissioner recently Austrian, that famous naval power.

Wasn't Austria the major power in the defeat of the Turks at lepanto?

When we the last time they had a Navy?

And according to Wikipedia, they weren’t involved.

King Cole, good guess but far too modern.

Mr. Me, you're correct. Forget who they were fighting (might have been the Helvetii).

bigjohnowls said:

BREXIT Time is the Fav in the next race at Hamilton 6/5 i am on

DYOR

As opposed to Hamilton being the favourite for the next race in Northamptonshire at the weekend?