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    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Friday seems to be a perfect opportunity for Javid to get his size 10's on and give the PM a good kicking as he is a Brexiteer now. Will we see some leaderships skills from Mr Javid or will he hide behind the sofa again. Then there is Williamson he is now a committed Brexiteer, we he mutiny out of conviction and to show leaderships skills?
    The sub plots are the most interesting aspect of Friday.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    it would be collective insanity not to use that moment to step back and rethink where we're going.

    We voted for collective insanity.

    Suck it up...
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358

    Sandpit said:

    If Andrew Neil is saying the choice for Brexiteers is a bad deal or no Brexit, we really are approaching crunch time.

    I suspect that if Mrs May presents that choice, she might not last past the weekend.
    Getting rid of May won’t change the parliamentary arithmetic
    Getting rid of May will not change anything. The momemtum is to a soft Brexit and hopefully soon
    No Brexit is better than a Bad Brexit
    I do not see a no Brexit
    Why not? If we can achieve consensus that the deal that's achievable is a bad deal, it would be collective insanity not to use that moment to step back and rethink where we're going.
    Not going to happen but remainers will get the opportunity to campaign to rejoin
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Yorkcity said:

    Anazina said:

    Sandpit said:

    If Andrew Neil is saying the choice for Brexiteers is a bad deal or no Brexit, we really are approaching crunch time.

    I suspect that if Mrs May presents that choice, she might not last past the weekend.
    You suspect wrongly.

    May is going nowhere.
    Totally agree their bluff will be called at last.
    Now is the time for TM to go for it
    I agree , really hope she does for the countries sake .
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358

    Friday seems to be a perfect opportunity for Javid to get his size 10's on and give the PM a good kicking as he is a Brexiteer now. Will we see some leaderships skills from Mr Javid or will he hide behind the sofa again. Then there is Williamson he is now a committed Brexiteer, we he mutiny out of conviction and to show leaderships skills?
    The sub plots are the most interesting aspect of Friday.

    He also wants to lead the party and he will not side with the hard Brexiteers
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    Sandpit said:

    If Andrew Neil is saying the choice for Brexiteers is a bad deal or no Brexit, we really are approaching crunch time.

    I suspect that if Mrs May presents that choice, she might not last past the weekend.
    Getting rid of May won’t change the parliamentary arithmetic
    Getting rid of May will not change anything. The momemtum is to a soft Brexit and hopefully soon
    It wouldn’t change the parliamentary arithmetic.

    It could certainly change political and leadership competence at the centre. It could also drive more confidence into negotiations that May lacks, including greater preparations to walk. It would also give the new PM control of the Treasury since he (it will very probably be a he) would be unlikely to retain Hammond.

    It doesn’t change the hand of the cards. But a new PM might play them much better. The candidate would be Javid backed by Gove.
  • Options
    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Friday seems to be a perfect opportunity for Javid to get his size 10's on and give the PM a good kicking as he is a Brexiteer now. Will we see some leaderships skills from Mr Javid or will he hide behind the sofa again. Then there is Williamson he is now a committed Brexiteer, we he mutiny out of conviction and to show leaderships skills?
    The sub plots are the most interesting aspect of Friday.

    He also wants to lead the party and he will not side with the hard Brexiteers
    Then his chances of leading the party are decreased. Oh no another May will be the chorus.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bitter article in the Guardian from one of their cricket correspondents on being forced to watch England vs India instead of England vs Colombia, a situation for which, rightly, he castigates the ECB. After all the World Cup schedule, including the rest days has been known for some time, longer than before the Indians touring details were settled.
    I wonder what he viewing figures for England vs India will be, and indeed, how the ticket sales have gone!

    Only at the Guardian would a man who gets paid to watch cricket complain that he can’t watch football instead.

    I’d imagine a lot of cricket fans who don’t care about football would be happy to be at Old Trafford, along with the prawn sandwich brigade *waves at Mr Eagles*
    Personaly I'd much prefer to watch cricket, but a proper game.

    Anyway, in my considerable experience of watching cricket most watchers are interested in both. Indeed, the loudest cheer at a recent Essex game when the news came through that Germany were out!
    To be fair, it wasn't the liveliest of days.
    Very true, sports fans are sports fans. I recall one year watching the Wimbledon final on a big screen at Silverstone after the Grand Prix finished! It’s not particularly unusual at this time of year for major events to overlap, the main reason that F1 are doing three races in a row this year is to avoid a clash with the WC final.
    Old Trafford's full, but not, in spite of Bumble, rammed. And a lot are Indian supporters, who might be expected to prefer cricket to football.
    And there are OKC family issues about three Fi's on the trot.
    Ah yes, another good point that there are lots of Indians and Indian Brits in Manchester who won’t care about the footy.
    Mrs Sandpit isn’t the happiest about the three F1s either, but the following week is her birthday and we’re spending the weekend on the new QEII hotel :)
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358

    Sandpit said:

    If Andrew Neil is saying the choice for Brexiteers is a bad deal or no Brexit, we really are approaching crunch time.

    I suspect that if Mrs May presents that choice, she might not last past the weekend.
    Getting rid of May won’t change the parliamentary arithmetic
    Getting rid of May will not change anything. The momemtum is to a soft Brexit and hopefully soon
    It wouldn’t change the parliamentary arithmetic.

    It could certainly change political and leadership competence at the centre. It could also drive more confidence into negotiations that May lacks, including greater preparations to walk. It would also give the new PM control of the Treasury since he (it will very probably be a he) would be unlikely to retain Hammond.

    It doesn’t change the hand of the cards. But a new PM might play them much better. The candidate would be Javid backed by Gove.
    Javid - Gove would be my ideal partnership but we will see this weekend if TM can make the biggest decision of her career and that includes the 2017 GE
  • Options
    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Sandpit said:

    If Andrew Neil is saying the choice for Brexiteers is a bad deal or no Brexit, we really are approaching crunch time.

    I suspect that if Mrs May presents that choice, she might not last past the weekend.
    Getting rid of May won’t change the parliamentary arithmetic
    Getting rid of May will not change anything. The momemtum is to a soft Brexit and hopefully soon
    It wouldn’t change the parliamentary arithmetic.

    It could certainly change political and leadership competence at the centre. It could also drive more confidence into negotiations that May lacks, including greater preparations to walk. It would also give the new PM control of the Treasury since he (it will very probably be a he) would be unlikely to retain Hammond.

    It doesn’t change the hand of the cards. But a new PM might play them much better. The candidate would be Javid backed by Gove.
    Also one of the main reasons May is weak is because they do not believe she will be leader at the next election. Get somebody new in and that changes and can create more unity.
  • Options
    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Sandpit said:

    If Andrew Neil is saying the choice for Brexiteers is a bad deal or no Brexit, we really are approaching crunch time.

    I suspect that if Mrs May presents that choice, she might not last past the weekend.
    Getting rid of May won’t change the parliamentary arithmetic
    Getting rid of May will not change anything. The momemtum is to a soft Brexit and hopefully soon
    It wouldn’t change the parliamentary arithmetic.

    It could certainly change political and leadership competence at the centre. It could also drive more confidence into negotiations that May lacks, including greater preparations to walk. It would also give the new PM control of the Treasury since he (it will very probably be a he) would be unlikely to retain Hammond.

    It doesn’t change the hand of the cards. But a new PM might play them much better. The candidate would be Javid backed by Gove.
    Javid - Gove would be my ideal partnership but we will see this weekend if TM can make the biggest decision of her career and that includes the 2017 GE
    She can make the decision, the question is can she handle/manage the fall out?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358

    Friday seems to be a perfect opportunity for Javid to get his size 10's on and give the PM a good kicking as he is a Brexiteer now. Will we see some leaderships skills from Mr Javid or will he hide behind the sofa again. Then there is Williamson he is now a committed Brexiteer, we he mutiny out of conviction and to show leaderships skills?
    The sub plots are the most interesting aspect of Friday.

    He also wants to lead the party and he will not side with the hard Brexiteers
    Then his chances of leading the party are decreased. Oh no another May will be the chorus.
    He is a million miles away from May and right now is in pole position including with the membership
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    Sandpit said:

    If Andrew Neil is saying the choice for Brexiteers is a bad deal or no Brexit, we really are approaching crunch time.

    I suspect that if Mrs May presents that choice, she might not last past the weekend.
    Getting rid of May won’t change the parliamentary arithmetic
    Getting rid of May will not change anything. The momemtum is to a soft Brexit and hopefully soon
    It wouldn’t change the parliamentary arithmetic.

    It could certainly change political and leadership competence at the centre. It could also drive more confidence into negotiations that May lacks, including greater preparations to walk. It would also give the new PM control of the Treasury since he (it will very probably be a he) would be unlikely to retain Hammond.

    It doesn’t change the hand of the cards. But a new PM might play them much better. The candidate would be Javid backed by Gove.
    Also one of the main reasons May is weak is because they do not believe she will be leader at the next election. Get somebody new in and that changes and can create more unity.
    She’s weak because she blew GE2017.

    But, I’m not convinced a “strong” May would have been much better. She’d have bullied her own Government and MPs, and tried to do the same to the EU too, with a strong majority, egged on by Timothy and Hill.

    She might have been even more likely to be defenestred.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,127

    It could certainly change political and leadership competence at the centre. It could also drive more confidence into negotiations that May lacks, including greater preparations to walk.

    Walk to what? How would the new PM handle Northern Ireland and Scotland?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited July 2018
    No James for Columbia....not even on the bench.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Away game for England in the T20 this evening.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358

    It could certainly change political and leadership competence at the centre. It could also drive more confidence into negotiations that May lacks, including greater preparations to walk.

    Walk to what? How would the new PM handle Northern Ireland and Scotland?
    Mind you, if we were to reverse the decision and stay in and then had a hard Brexiteer PM could you imagine how that would go down in Brussels. They already have problems with Italy and the Visegrad Countries and are likely to face a big swing to hard left and hard right MEP's in the 2019 EU elections
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bitter article in the Guardian from one of their cricket correspondents on being forced to watch England vs India instead of England vs Colombia, a situation for which, rightly, he castigates the ECB. After all the World Cup schedule, including the rest days has been known for some time, longer than before the Indians touring details were settled.
    I wonder what he viewing figures for England vs India will be, and indeed, how the ticket sales have gone!

    Only at the Guardian would a man who gets paid to watch cricket complain that he can’t watch football instead.

    I’d imagine a lot of cricket fans who don’t care about football would be happy to be at Old Trafford, along with the prawn sandwich brigade *waves at Mr Eagles*
    Personaly I'd much prefer to watch cricket, but a proper game.

    Anyway, in my considerable experience of watching cricket most watchers are interested in both. Indeed, the loudest cheer at a recent Essex game when the news came through that Germany were out!
    To be fair, it wasn't the liveliest of days.
    Very true, sports fans are sports fans. I recall one year watching the Wimbledon final on a big screen at Silverstone after the Grand Prix finished! It’s not particularly unusual at this time of year for major events to overlap, the main reason that F1 are doing three races in a row this year is to avoid a clash with the WC final.
    Wimbledon and the British Grand Prix are always the same day I think
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/thehistoryguy/status/1014177283035353088

    The analogy doesn’t really work as nobody expects an easy win, it’s 50/50, and it won’t be international embarrassment whoever loses.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    England struggling in the T20 after Roy wicket.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,250

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Which state has the record for winning naval battles in (what is today territory of) Switzerland?

    [NB I'm aware it's landlocked].

    On a related note, wasn’t the EU fisheries commissioner recently Austrian, that famous naval power.
    Wasn't Austria the major power in the defeat of the Turks at lepanto?
    When we the last time they had a Navy?

    1918.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Hungarian_Navy

    The Tegethoff class dreadnoughts were the first with triple gun turrets and they also had them in a superfiring arrangement (one turret firing over the one in front/behind).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegetthoff-class_battleship



    There's a very decent series of novels by John Biggins about a sailor in the last years of the Austro Hungarian navy.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited July 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bitter article in the Guardian from one of their cricket correspondents on being forced to watch England vs India instead of England vs Colombia, a situation for which, rightly, he castigates the ECB. After all the World Cup schedule, including the rest days has been known for some time, longer than before the Indians touring details were settled.
    I wonder what he viewing figures for England vs India will be, and indeed, how the ticket sales have gone!

    Only at the Guardian would a man who gets paid to watch cricket complain that he can’t watch football instead.

    I’d imagine a lot of cricket fans who don’t care about football would be happy to be at Old Trafford, along with the prawn sandwich brigade *waves at Mr Eagles*
    Personaly I'd much prefer to watch cricket, but a proper game.

    Anyway, in my considerable experience of watching cricket most watchers are interested in both. Indeed, the loudest cheer at a recent Essex game when the news came through that Germany were out!
    To be fair, it wasn't the liveliest of days.
    Very true, sports fans are sports fans. I recall one year watching the Wimbledon final on a big screen at Silverstone after the Grand Prix finished! It’s not particularly unusual at this time of year for major events to overlap, the main reason that F1 are doing three races in a row this year is to avoid a clash with the WC final.
    Wimbledon and the British Grand Prix are always the same day I think
    This year the Wimbledon final gets to clash with the Goodwood Festival of Speed and the World Cup Final.

    Yes, the tennis and F1 do often clash. It must be a nightmare trying to organise events around all the key social and sporting fixtures, working out which clashes will take audience away from yours or give local problems with policing, and which might co-exist happily.
    Even Prince Harry managed to end up with his wedding on FA Cup Final day.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bitter article in the Guardian from one of their cricket correspondents on being forced to watch England vs India instead of England vs Colombia, a situation for which, rightly, he castigates the ECB. After all the World Cup schedule, including the rest days has been known for some time, longer than before the Indians touring details were settled.
    I wonder what he viewing figures for England vs India will be, and indeed, how the ticket sales have gone!

    Only at the Guardian would a man who gets paid to watch cricket complain that he can’t watch football instead.

    I’d imagine a lot of cricket fans who don’t care about football would be happy to be at Old Trafford, along with the prawn sandwich brigade *waves at Mr Eagles*
    Personaly I'd much prefer to watch cricket, but a proper game.

    Anyway, in my considerable experience of watching cricket most watchers are interested in both. Indeed, the loudest cheer at a recent Essex game when the news came through that Germany were out!
    To be fair, it wasn't the liveliest of days.
    Very true, sports fans are sports fans. I recall one year watching the Wimbledon final on a big screen at Silverstone after the Grand Prix finished! It’s not particularly unusual at this time of year for major events to overlap, the main reason that F1 are doing three races in a row this year is to avoid a clash with the WC final.
    Wimbledon and the British Grand Prix are always the same day I think
    This year the Wimbledon final gets to clash with the Goodwood Festival of Speed and the World Cup Final.

    Yes, the tennis and F1 do often clash, it must be a nightmare trying to organise events around all key social and sporting fixtures, working out which clashes will take audience away from yours and which might co-exist happily. Even Prince Harry managed to end up with his wedding on FA Cup Final day.
    Just ask organisers of jez-fest ;-)
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bitter article in the Guardian from one of their cricket correspondents on being forced to watch England vs India instead of England vs Colombia, a situation for which, rightly, he castigates the ECB. After all the World Cup schedule, including the rest days has been known for some time, longer than before the Indians touring details were settled.
    I wonder what he viewing figures for England vs India will be, and indeed, how the ticket sales have gone!

    Only at the Guardian would a man who gets paid to watch cricket complain that he can’t watch football instead.

    I’d imagine a lot of cricket fans who don’t care about football would be happy to be at Old Trafford, along with the prawn sandwich brigade *waves at Mr Eagles*
    Personaly I'd much prefer to watch cricket, but a proper game.

    Anyway, in my considerable experience of watching cricket most watchers are interested in both. Indeed, the loudest cheer at a recent Essex game when the news came through that Germany were out!
    To be fair, it wasn't the liveliest of days.
    Very true, sports fans are sports fans. I recall one year watching the Wimbledon final on a big screen at Silverstone after the Grand Prix finished! It’s not particularly unusual at this time of year for major events to overlap, the main reason that F1 are doing three races in a row this year is to avoid a clash with the WC final.
    Wimbledon and the British Grand Prix are always the same day I think
    This year the Wimbledon final gets to clash with the Goodwood Festival of Speed and the World Cup Final.

    Yes, the tennis and F1 do often clash, it must be a nightmare trying to organise events around all key social and sporting fixtures, working out which clashes will take audience away from yours and which might co-exist happily. Even Prince Harry managed to end up with his wedding on FA Cup Final day.
    Just ask organisers of jez-fest ;-)
    Did that actually clash with anything, or was it just a badly planned and overhyped event?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,203
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bitter article in the Guardian from one of their cricket correspondents on being forced to watch England vs India instead of England vs Colombia, a situation for which, rightly, he castigates the ECB. After all the World Cup schedule, including the rest days has been known for some time, longer than before the Indians touring details were settled.
    I wonder what he viewing figures for England vs India will be, and indeed, how the ticket sales have gone!

    Only at the Guardian would a man who gets paid to watch cricket complain that he can’t watch football instead.

    I’d imagine a lot of cricket fans who don’t care about football would be happy to be at Old Trafford, along with the prawn sandwich brigade *waves at Mr Eagles*
    Personaly I'd much prefer to watch cricket, but a proper game.

    Anyway, in my considerable experience of watching cricket most watchers are interested in both. Indeed, the loudest cheer at a recent Essex game when the news came through that Germany were out!
    To be fair, it wasn't the liveliest of days.
    Very true, sports fans are sports fans. I recall one year watching the Wimbledon final on a big screen at Silverstone after the Grand Prix finished! It’s not particularly unusual at this time of year for major events to overlap, the main reason that F1 are doing three races in a row this year is to avoid a clash with the WC final.
    Wimbledon and the British Grand Prix are always the same day I think
    This year the Wimbledon final gets to clash with the Goodwood Festival of Speed and the World Cup Final.

    Yes, the tennis and F1 do often clash. It must be a nightmare trying to organise events around all the key social and sporting fixtures, working out which clashes will take audience away from yours or give local problems with policing, and which might co-exist happily.
    Even Prince Harry managed to end up with his wedding on FA Cup Final day.
    The All England Club have stubbornly refused to move the start time of the men's singles final. A whole Digital Spy thread was dedicated to working out what the BBC would do if Murray was in the tennis final and England were in the football final. Tennis on 2 in my opinion.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,689

    If Andrew Neil is saying the choice for Brexiteers is a bad deal or no Brexit, we really are approaching crunch time.

    Finally, maybe we seem to be getting to the point where May grows a spine and tells the nutters to FO and see if they can bring down the government.
    I'd rather she grew a spine and told the apparatchiks in Brussels to FO.

    But of course she won't do that because she is a Remainer.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    Off-topic:

    This is a fascinating story: Devon's 'missing' standing stones.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/07/the-lost-standing-stones-of-devon-are-still-hiding-from-archaeologists/
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    England struggling in the T20 after Roy wicket.

    Par score of 180-190 from here?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bitter article in the Guardian from one of their cricket correspondents on being forced to watch England vs India instead of England vs Colombia, a situation for which, rightly, he castigates the ECB. After all the World Cup schedule, including the rest days has been known for some time, longer than before the Indians touring details were settled.
    I wonder what he viewing figures for England vs India will be, and indeed, how the ticket sales have gone!

    Only at the Guardian would a man who gets paid to watch cricket complain that he can’t watch football instead.

    I’d imagine a lot of cricket fans who don’t care about football would be happy to be at Old Trafford, along with the prawn sandwich brigade *waves at Mr Eagles*
    Personaly I'd much prefer to watch cricket, but a proper game.

    Anyway, in my considerable experience of watching cricket most watchers are interested in both. Indeed, the loudest cheer at a recent Essex game when the news came through that Germany were out!
    To be fair, it wasn't the liveliest of days.
    Very true, sports fans are sports fans. I recall one year watching the Wimbledon final on a big screen at Silverstone after the Grand Prix finished! It’s not particularly unusual at this time of year for major events to overlap, the main reason that F1 are doing three races in a row this year is to avoid a clash with the WC final.
    Wimbledon and the British Grand Prix are always the same day I think
    This year the Wimbledon final gets to clash with the Goodwood Festival of Speed and the World Cup Final.

    Yes, the tennis and F1 do often clash. It must be a nightmare trying to organise events around all the key social and sporting fixtures, working out which clashes will take audience away from yours or give local problems with policing, and which might co-exist happily.
    Even Prince Harry managed to end up with his wedding on FA Cup Final day.
    The All England Club have stubbornly refused to move the start time of the men's singles final. A whole Digital Spy thread was dedicated to working out what the BBC would do if Murray was in the tennis final and England were in the football final. Tennis on 2 in my opinion.
    Unsurprising move from those inflexible toffs. They probably don't even know what football is.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,127
    rkrkrk said:

    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    On topic, 8% isnt an especially large amount of voters, and some presumably were leavers not remainers. Plus, where do those voters go? To the Lib Dems? Maybe, but i think while the tories are keeping hard brexit alive and in the news, labours realistic soft brexit will look better than an unrealistic attempt to have anothe referendum and keep us in the EU. If May does stand up to her hard liners, decides to keep us in the customs union and single market or equivalent thrn the calculation changes....

    Except Corbyn is not committed to soft Brexit but is committed to leaving the single market and ending free movement while today's Yougov has a 2% swing from Labour to LD since GE17 while the Tories are unchanged
    Corbyn doesn't have a clear position on freedom of movement, and doesnt have much of a position on the single market either tbh. But crucially he isn't constrained by May's red lines.
    Corbyn is ideologically opposed to the single market as he has made clear on every occasion asked and he knows most Labour seats voted Leave hence he would also end free movement
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,127
    edited July 2018

    It could certainly change political and leadership competence at the centre. It could also drive more confidence into negotiations that May lacks, including greater preparations to walk.

    Walk to what? How would the new PM handle Northern Ireland and Scotland?
    Well the former has a Unionist First Minister albeit with a suspended executive and the latter is heading for a Unionist majority at Holyrood in 2021 on current polling
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited July 2018
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Only at the Guardian would a man who gets paid to watch cricket complain that he can’t watch football instead.

    I’d imagine a lot of cricket fans who don’t care about football would be happy to be at Old Trafford, along with the prawn sandwich brigade *waves at Mr Eagles*
    Personaly I'd much prefer to watch cricket, but a proper game.

    Anyway, in my considerable experience of watching cricket most watchers are interested in both. Indeed, the loudest cheer at a recent Essex game when the news came through that Germany were out!
    To be fair, it wasn't the liveliest of days.
    Very true, sports fans are sports fans. I recall one year watching the Wimbledon final on a big screen at Silverstone after the Grand Prix finished! It’s not particularly unusual at this time of year for major events to overlap, the main reason that F1 are doing three races in a row this year is to avoid a clash with the WC final.
    Wimbledon and the British Grand Prix are always the same day I think
    This year the Wimbledon final gets to clash with the Goodwood Festival of Speed and the World Cup Final.

    Yes, the tennis and F1 do often clash. It must be a nightmare trying to organise events around all the key social and sporting fixtures, working out which clashes will take audience away from yours or give local problems with policing, and which might co-exist happily.
    Even Prince Harry managed to end up with his wedding on FA Cup Final day.
    The All England Club have stubbornly refused to move the start time of the men's singles final. A whole Digital Spy thread was dedicated to working out what the BBC would do if Murray was in the tennis final and England were in the football final. Tennis on 2 in my opinion.
    All moot now but yes, they’d have no choice but to move the tennis to BBC2, as they have done in the past when play runs very late or spills into unplanned days due to rain etc.

    A lot of sport is now organised around an increasingly international TV audience - the Premier league schedule is pretty much entirely in the hands of the TV companies, F1 European races are starting at ten past an hour later than last season to help the TV schedulers and US audience, even in the football World Cup they used to play the knockout rounds simultaneously but TV won that argument too.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bitter article in the Guardian from one of their cricket correspondents on being forced to watch England vs India instead of England vs Colombia, a situation for which, rightly, he castigates the ECB. After all the World Cup schedule, including the rest days has been known for some time, longer than before the Indians touring details were settled.
    I wonder what he viewing figures for England vs India will be, and indeed, how the ticket sales have gone!

    Only at the Guardian would a man who gets paid to watch cricket complain that he can’t watch football instead.

    I’d imagine a lot of cricket fans who don’t care about football would be happy to be at Old Trafford, along with the prawn sandwich brigade *waves at Mr Eagles*
    Personaly I'd much prefer to watch cricket, but a proper game.

    Anyway, in my considerable experience of watching cricket most watchers are interested in both. Indeed, the loudest cheer at a recent Essex game when the news came through that Germany were out!
    To be fair, it wasn't the liveliest of days.
    Very true, sports fans are sports fans. I recall one year watching the Wimbledon final on a big screen at Silverstone after the Grand Prix finished! It’s not particularly unusual at this time of year for major events to overlap, the main reason that F1 are doing three races in a row this year is to avoid a clash with the WC final.
    Wimbledon and the British Grand Prix are always the same day I think
    This year the Wimbledon final gets to clash with the Goodwood Festival of Speed and the World Cup Final.

    Yes, the tennis and F1 do often clash. It must be a nightmare trying to organise events around all the key social and sporting fixtures, working out which clashes will take audience away from yours or give local problems with policing, and which might co-exist happily.
    Even Prince Harry managed to end up with his wedding on FA Cup Final day.
    The All England Club have stubbornly refused to move the start time of the men's singles final. A whole Digital Spy thread was dedicated to working out what the BBC would do if Murray was in the tennis final and England were in the football final. Tennis on 2 in my opinion.
    Unsurprising move from those inflexible toffs. They probably don't even know what football is.
    Amazing that Nadal and Federer are #1 and #2 in the world still. The men's game will feel a bit lost when they're retired.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,203
    edited July 2018
    Sandpit said:

    All moot now but yes, they’d have no choice but to move the tennis to BBC2, as they have done in the past when play runs very late or spills into unplanned days due to rain etc.

    A lot of sport is now organised around an increasingly international TV audience - the Premier league schedule is pretty much entirely in the hands of the TV companies, F1 European races are starting at ten past an hour later than last season to help the TV schedulers and US audience, even in the football World Cup they used to play the knockout rounds simultaneously but TV won that argument too.

    I suppose Edmund could do something - though bumping an Englishman to BBC2 wouldn't have quite the same controversy.

    I guess the World Cup Final is kicking off at 16:00 BST for the benefit of those in the Far East - though it will still be quite late there.

    The one that I'd like to see change is the Super Bowl. It would be so much better if they could play it on a Saturday night rather than a Sunday night.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    If Andrew Neil is saying the choice for Brexiteers is a bad deal or no Brexit, we really are approaching crunch time.

    Finally, maybe we seem to be getting to the point where May grows a spine and tells the nutters to FO and see if they can bring down the government.
    I'd rather she grew a spine and told the apparatchiks in Brussels to FO.

    But of course she won't do that because she is a Remainer.
    The saboteur in chief.
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    kingbongokingbongo Posts: 393

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Which state has the record for winning naval battles in (what is today territory of) Switzerland?

    [NB I'm aware it's landlocked].

    On a related note, wasn’t the EU fisheries commissioner recently Austrian, that famous naval power.
    Wasn't Austria the major power in the defeat of the Turks at lepanto?
    When we the last time they had a Navy?

    1918.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Hungarian_Navy

    The Tegethoff class dreadnoughts were the first with triple gun turrets and they also had them in a superfiring arrangement (one turret firing over the one in front/behind).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegetthoff-class_battleship



    There's a very decent series of novels by John Biggins about a sailor in the last years of the Austro Hungarian navy.
    When I lived there in 1990-1994 there was some sort of Austrian Naval thing that patrolled the Danube - it wasn't the police and people I know used to refer to it ironically as 'the navy' - I presume it was part of the customs or something
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited July 2018
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    All moot now but yes, they’d have no choice but to move the tennis to BBC2, as they have done in the past when play runs very late or spills into unplanned days due to rain etc.

    A lot of sport is now organised around an increasingly international TV audience - the Premier league schedule is pretty much entirely in the hands of the TV companies, F1 European races are starting at ten past an hour later than last season to help the TV schedulers and US audience, even in the football World Cup they used to play the knockout rounds simultaneously but TV won that argument too.

    I suppose Edmund could do something - though bumping an Englishman to BBC2 wouldn't have quite the same controversy.

    I guess the World Cup Final is kicking off at 16:00 BST for the benefit of those in the Far East - though it will still be quite late there.

    The one that I'd like to see change is the Super Bowl. It would be so much better if they could play it on a Saturday night rather than a Sunday night.
    The Wimbledon men's final could be over by 4pm or still be going at 7pm. So little point in moving it as it might still clash anyway. Tickets are bought plans are in place and for those attending travel plans booked.

    It's highly unlikely as well there will be a competitor in the men's final from one of the finalists in the World Cup anyway - no disrespect to Kyle Edmund - as Spain and Switzerland are out.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited July 2018
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    All moot now but yes, they’d have no choice but to move the tennis to BBC2, as they have done in the past when play runs very late or spills into unplanned days due to rain etc.

    A lot of sport is now organised around an increasingly international TV audience - the Premier league schedule is pretty much entirely in the hands of the TV companies, F1 European races are starting at ten past an hour later than last season to help the TV schedulers and US audience, even in the football World Cup they used to play the knockout rounds simultaneously but TV won that argument too.

    I suppose Edmund could do something - though bumping an Englishman to BBC2 wouldn't have quite the same controversy.

    I guess the World Cup Final is kicking off at 16:00 BST for the benefit of those in the Far East - though it will still be quite late there.

    The one that I'd like to see change is the Super Bowl. It would be so much better if they could play it on a Saturday night rather than a Sunday night.
    Agree with the Super Bowl, as it is half of the US takes the next day ‘sick’, for the rest of the world it’s a real nightmare to try and watch it. Maybe there might be some movement on the time when there’s a London NFL team, an hour or two would make all the difference.

    Living in different time zones has a funny effect on how you watch sports, with go-to-pub games being stay-in games and vice-versa. Out here the biggest one you notice is weekday evening football, especiallly when the time difference changes as the UK change their clocks. There’s a big difference between a match that finishes at 12:45am and one that finishes at 1:45am when you’re at work the next day!
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,203
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    All moot now but yes, they’d have no choice but to move the tennis to BBC2, as they have done in the past when play runs very late or spills into unplanned days due to rain etc.

    A lot of sport is now organised around an increasingly international TV audience - the Premier league schedule is pretty much entirely in the hands of the TV companies, F1 European races are starting at ten past an hour later than last season to help the TV schedulers and US audience, even in the football World Cup they used to play the knockout rounds simultaneously but TV won that argument too.

    I suppose Edmund could do something - though bumping an Englishman to BBC2 wouldn't have quite the same controversy.

    I guess the World Cup Final is kicking off at 16:00 BST for the benefit of those in the Far East - though it will still be quite late there.

    The one that I'd like to see change is the Super Bowl. It would be so much better if they could play it on a Saturday night rather than a Sunday night.
    Agree with the Super Bowl, as it is half of the US takes the next day ‘sick’, for the rest of the world it’s a real nightmare to try and watch it. Maybe there might be some movement on the time when there’s a London NFL team, an hour or two would make all the difference.

    Living in different time zones has a funny effect on how you watch sports, with go-to-pub games being stay-in games and vice-versa. Out here the biggest one you notice is weekday evening football, especiallly when the time difference changes as the UK change their clocks. There’s a big difference between a match that finishes at 12:45am and one that finishes at 1:45am when you’re at work the next day!
    Blimey, if I'm not in bed by 10pm I really feel it the next day! I've enjoyed this World Cup more than the last one simply because the games are on earlier. That said, I will be missing the final as I'll be at the final day of the Scottish Open golf at Gullane.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Sandpit said:

    England struggling in the T20 after Roy wicket.

    Par score of 180-190 from here?
    Questions to which the answer is no.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    We'll win this. Looks like we have far too much to me.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    We'll win this. Looks like we have far too much to me.

    Both sides look good when attacking.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    All moot now but yes, they’d have no choice but to move the tennis to BBC2, as they have done in the past when play runs very late or spills into unplanned days due to rain etc.

    A lot of sport is now organised around an increasingly international TV audience - the Premier league schedule is pretty much entirely in the hands of the TV companies, F1 European races are starting at ten past an hour later than last season to help the TV schedulers and US audience, even in the football World Cup they used to play the knockout rounds simultaneously but TV won that argument too.

    I suppose Edmund could do something - though bumping an Englishman to BBC2 wouldn't have quite the same controversy.

    I guess the World Cup Final is kicking off at 16:00 BST for the benefit of those in the Far East - though it will still be quite late there.

    The one that I'd like to see change is the Super Bowl. It would be so much better if they could play it on a Saturday night rather than a Sunday night.
    Agree with the Super Bowl, as it is half of the US takes the next day ‘sick’, for the rest of the world it’s a real nightmare to try and watch it. Maybe there might be some movement on the time when there’s a London NFL team, an hour or two would make all the difference.

    Living in different time zones has a funny effect on how you watch sports, with go-to-pub games being stay-in games and vice-versa. Out here the biggest one you notice is weekday evening football, especiallly when the time difference changes as the UK change their clocks. There’s a big difference between a match that finishes at 12:45am and one that finishes at 1:45am when you’re at work the next day!
    Blimey, if I'm not in bed by 10pm I really feel it the next day! I've enjoyed this World Cup more than the last one simply because the games are on earlier. That said, I will be missing the final as I'll be at the final day of the Scottish Open golf at Gullane.
    Not every night, but when your team is in the latter stages of the Champions’ League...
    Yes, Western Russia is a good time zone for me too, matches start at 5 and finish by midnight.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,370
    Sterling just too slow getting his shot away.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    England struggling in the T20 after Roy wicket.

    Par score of 180-190 from here?
    Questions to which the answer is no.
    Sadly no; excellent bowling from India so the targets's 160.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited July 2018
    Sam Coates Times
    ‏Verified account @SamCoatesTimes
    9m9 minutes ago

    Apparently there is some football match on at the moment (who knew) and MPs are whining that the SNP are making them vote over hundreds of millions of pounds of government expenditure instead.
    4 replies . 16 retweets 25 likes
    .................................................................................................................................................................................
    Sam Coates Times
    ‏Verified account @SamCoatesTimes
    3m3 minutes ago

    Andrew Bridgen says: “The SNP are the Millwall of Brexit. Everyone hates them and they don’t care”

    And that the Tories are on a 3 Lion Whip

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,370
    How’d he miss?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,203
    Pulpstar said:

    We'll win this. Looks like we have far too much to me.

    Very good start, but we have a history of struggling in the second half. So I think we need to be ahead at the break.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2018
    Question: where did the first international football match between England and Scotland take place in 1870?
    Answer: The Oval, Kennington.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    England struggling in the T20 after Roy wicket.

    Par score of 180-190 from here?
    Questions to which the answer is no.
    Sadly no; excellent bowling from India so the targets's 160.
    The last over was eight balls, but apart from that...

    Yes, 160 too easy these days. India 1.4 (2/5 in old money) to make the runs.
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    dellertronicdellertronic Posts: 133
    Still trying to work out why 600 MP's want 17.4M to vote UKIP at the next election. Did they not notice what happened in Scotland?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Still trying to work out why 600 MP's want 17.4M to vote UKIP at the next election. Did they not notice what happened in Scotland?

    Obviously they haven’t yet understood that if they thought the referendum result was a protest against the Establishment, holding one and then not implementing the result might not go down too well either...
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,914
    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    On topic, 8% isnt an especially large amount of voters, and some presumably were leavers not remainers. Plus, where do those voters go? To the Lib Dems? Maybe, but i think while the tories are keeping hard brexit alive and in the news, labours realistic soft brexit will look better than an unrealistic attempt to have anothe referendum and keep us in the EU. If May does stand up to her hard liners, decides to keep us in the customs union and single market or equivalent thrn the calculation changes....

    Except Corbyn is not committed to soft Brexit but is committed to leaving the single market and ending free movement while today's Yougov has a 2% swing from Labour to LD since GE17 while the Tories are unchanged
    Corbyn doesn't have a clear position on freedom of movement, and doesnt have much of a position on the single market either tbh. But crucially he isn't constrained by May's red lines.
    Corbyn is ideologically opposed to the single market as he has made clear on every occasion asked and he knows most Labour seats voted Leave hence he would also end free movement
    Clear isn't the word I would use to describe this for instance:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-38561501

    This doesn't sound ideologically opposed to me:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-41230811/jeremy-corbyn-single-market-membership-open-for-discussion&hl=am-ET
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,878

    Still trying to work out why 600 MP's want 17.4M to vote UKIP at the next election. Did they not notice what happened in Scotland?

    UKIP will be lucky to stand 17.4 candidates at the next election.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,370
    England need a goal.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,203
    Probably a red card, but not good from Henderson.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Why wasn't that a red card?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Refereeing nonsense, that was a red.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,370
    tlg86 said:

    Probably a red card, but not good from Henderson.

    Never looks quite the same in slow mo.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,993
    All this talking to the ref really should be stopped. They need the same rule as they have in rugby where the only players who are supposed to talk to the referee are the captains of each team.

    Good to see Kane continually trying to defuse the situation and pull his players away though.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995
    This could get tasty second half.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    Keep putting the ball in their box and VAR will get us a penalty from these cheats.....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Lotus cheek Inc I fuess
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,370

    All this talking to the ref really should be stopped. They need the same rule as they have in rugby where the only players who are supposed to talk to the referee are the captains of each team.

    Good to see Kane continually trying to defuse the situation and pull his players away though.

    Rugby is just brilliant at referees. The continuous commentary, the respect that players have to give them, the consequences if they don’t. Football has a lot to learn.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    All this talking to the ref really should be stopped. They need the same rule as they have in rugby where the only players who are supposed to talk to the referee are the captains of each team.

    Good to see Kane continually trying to defuse the situation and pull his players away though.

    Kane is a class act as Captain. So glad its no longer Rooney
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,914
    DavidL said:

    All this talking to the ref really should be stopped. They need the same rule as they have in rugby where the only players who are supposed to talk to the referee are the captains of each team.

    Good to see Kane continually trying to defuse the situation and pull his players away though.

    Rugby is just brilliant at referees. The continuous commentary, the respect that players have to give them, the consequences if they don’t. Football has a lot to learn.
    Very true. It really puts people off football too.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    DavidL said:

    All this talking to the ref really should be stopped. They need the same rule as they have in rugby where the only players who are supposed to talk to the referee are the captains of each team.

    Good to see Kane continually trying to defuse the situation and pull his players away though.

    Rugby is just brilliant at referees. The continuous commentary, the respect that players have to give them, the consequences if they don’t. Football has a lot to learn.
    We’ve all been saying that for decades, but it never changes.

    A few players getting a second yellow at this stage for not keeping their mouth shut would fix it straight away.
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    archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612

    Friday seems to be a perfect opportunity for Javid to get his size 10's on and give the PM a good kicking as he is a Brexiteer now. Will we see some leaderships skills from Mr Javid or will he hide behind the sofa again. Then there is Williamson he is now a committed Brexiteer, we he mutiny out of conviction and to show leaderships skills?
    The sub plots are the most interesting aspect of Friday.

    Quite. Javid is only getting popular because he is pretending to be a Brexiteer again. But if he starts hiding, his star will fade. If he wants to be Tory leader then he will indeed need to be seen to stand firm against May this week. If anything, Javid will need to go out of his way to prove to the members that he is reliable on Brexit given his history.

    I think the history of the Tory leader polls simply show that Tory members will support whoever looks most likely to deliver a proper Hard Brexit at any point in time.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989
    New thread...
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,370
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    All this talking to the ref really should be stopped. They need the same rule as they have in rugby where the only players who are supposed to talk to the referee are the captains of each team.

    Good to see Kane continually trying to defuse the situation and pull his players away though.

    Rugby is just brilliant at referees. The continuous commentary, the respect that players have to give them, the consequences if they don’t. Football has a lot to learn.
    We’ve all been saying that for decades, but it never changes.

    A few players getting a second yellow at this stage for not keeping their mouth shut would fix it straight away.
    Indeed. A 6ft 6 prop standing there with his hands behind his back while the ref berates him is (a) hilarious and (b) very, very good for the sport.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    They are still voting in the Commons on the estimates.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358
    edited July 2018

    Friday seems to be a perfect opportunity for Javid to get his size 10's on and give the PM a good kicking as he is a Brexiteer now. Will we see some leaderships skills from Mr Javid or will he hide behind the sofa again. Then there is Williamson he is now a committed Brexiteer, we he mutiny out of conviction and to show leaderships skills?
    The sub plots are the most interesting aspect of Friday.

    Quite. Javid is only getting popular because he is pretending to be a Brexiteer again. But if he starts hiding, his star will fade. If he wants to be Tory leader then he will indeed need to be seen to stand firm against May this week. If anything, Javid will need to go out of his way to prove to the members that he is reliable on Brexit given his history.

    I think the history of the Tory leader polls simply show that Tory members will support whoever looks most likely to deliver a proper Hard Brexit at any point in time.
    Are you a voting conservative member
  • Options
    archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612

    Friday seems to be a perfect opportunity for Javid to get his size 10's on and give the PM a good kicking as he is a Brexiteer now. Will we see some leaderships skills from Mr Javid or will he hide behind the sofa again. Then there is Williamson he is now a committed Brexiteer, we he mutiny out of conviction and to show leaderships skills?
    The sub plots are the most interesting aspect of Friday.

    Quite. Javid is only getting popular because he is pretending to be a Brexiteer again. But if he starts hiding, his star will fade. If he wants to be Tory leader then he will indeed need to be seen to stand firm against May this week. If anything, Javid will need to go out of his way to prove to the members that he is reliable on Brexit given his history.

    I think the history of the Tory leader polls simply show that Tory members will support whoever looks most likely to deliver a proper Hard Brexit at any point in time.
    Are you a voting conservative member

    Are you even a conservative?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,127
    rkrkrk said:

    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    On topic, 8% isnt an especially large amount of voters, and some presumably were leavers not remainers. Plus, where do those voters go? To the Lib Dems? Maybe, but i think while the tories are keeping hard brexit alive and in the news, labours realistic soft brexit will look better than an unrealistic attempt to have anothe referendum and keep us in the EU. If May does stand up to her hard liners, decides to keep us in the customs union and single market or equivalent thrn the calculation changes....

    Except Corbyn is not committed to soft Brexit but is committed to leaving the single market and ending free movement while today's Yougov has a 2% swing from Labour to LD since GE17 while the Tories are unchanged
    Corbyn doesn't have a clear position on freedom of movement, and doesnt have much of a position on the single market either tbh. But crucially he isn't constrained by May's red lines.
    Corbyn is ideologically opposed to the single market as he has made clear on every occasion asked and he knows most Labour seats voted Leave hence he would also end free movement
    Clear isn't the word I would use to describe this for instance:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-38561501

    This doesn't sound ideologically opposed to me:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-41230811/jeremy-corbyn-single-market-membership-open-for-discussion&hl=am-ET
    Nope, your first link sees Corbyn make clear 'Labour is not wedded to freedom of movement for EU citizens as a point of principle' and '"Changes to the way migration rules operate from the EU will be part of the negotiations."

    Your second link does not work but Corbyn has been abundantly clear the single market does not respect the Leave vote and he opposes staying in it 'There are directives and obligations linked to the single market, such as state aid rules and requirements to liberalise and privatise public services, which we would not want to see as part of a post-Brexit relationship.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/07/jeremy-corbyn-says-uk-should-reject-key-aspects-of-single-market-after-brexit
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    Another 'Arry Arrow!
This discussion has been closed.