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I'd assumed all along that there'd be at least one amendment which would face more than one round of ping pong, and with the May deceipt and another Labour MP about to be in the Commons, that seems a likely candidate. A large number of the Lords have been very passionate on this subject, so I should think enough will be willing to give it one more go.tpfkar said:
Quite a dilemma for the Lords on Monday.Scott_P said:
The plausible scenario is May wins the vote, just, which means the government deal is the final say. Nobody can change it, ever.kle4 said:And if it does not prove to be the end game because May wins the vote, then that tweet will have been a load of bollocks.
May has apparent deceived and annoyed plenty of MPs, perhaps enough to cause a problem with the vote, but that apocalyptic summation seems overblown when it is far from certain she will lose it. And if she wins it it means that even though many might think she cannot be trusted, they are still prepared to keep this ball rolling for awhile yet.
So the Brexiteers depose May because they don't trust her not to cave to the EU, in the hope of installing BoZo
Do they throw the Government amendment out and back Grieve's - at the risk of losing entirely?
Or take the Government's and accept something?
Given the stakes they must be tempted to take Grieve's to the vote in the Commons, and then ping the Government's in for a further round of ping-pong, if the Grieve one doesn't carry the Commons.0 -
I've come to the view that it's like negotiating between Caesar and Pompey. Both sides say they want a deal, but pride makes a deal impossible.welshowl said:
Not brushing up on Russian verbs.surby said:
They could also veto any FTA with the UK too. After all, 27 countries have to agree.SeanT said:
lolCarlottaVance said:
Amazed Scott P didn't retweet that.
Leaving the EU is gonna be like eating a bucket of shite. Unfortnately, the alternative, staying in, will be like eating a cauldron of shite, every year, from here to the End of Time.
The EU will never reform. As its stiff, sniffy, superior, legalistic negotiations with the UK eloquently reveal, it believes it is a new Carolingian, even Roman Empire in the making, and all those who demur must be crushed like the Parthians.
Fuck 'em.
Will East EU countries just meekly agree to any no FoM deal. After all, they don't sell BMWs and Prosecco to the UK. What's in it for them ?0 -
I'm going to predict some reactions right now - it will be said not to be enough, and we'll have another winter crisis on our hands.Scott_P said:@alexmassie: ‘Borrowing’ and ‘tax’ are doing the heavy lifting here. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1007360201383645184
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Perhaps we should have a GEMarkHopkins said:bigjohnowls said:YG 42/39
Pretty sure last one was an outlier
Probably. But outliers can be a sense of direction as well.
May with a 3 pt start against campaigning Corbyn
What could possibly go wrong??0 -
Tickets for Labour Live 'JezFest' slashed by 70% in bid to boost sales
There are claims poor sales could see Labour lose more than £1m from its north London event, which has been dubbed "JezFest".
https://news.sky.com/story/tickets-for-labour-live-jezfest-slashed-by-70-in-bid-to-boost-sales-11405121
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Nate Silver reckons that if a pollster is doing their job properly about one in twenty polls should be outliers. It’s when they have none you should worry....bigjohnowls said:YG 42/39
Pretty sure last one was an outlier0 -
There is no guarantee that Corbyn would manage to have a similar or even close rise to his last effort, particularly starting from a much higher position.bigjohnowls said:
Perhaps we should have a GEMarkHopkins said:bigjohnowls said:YG 42/39
Pretty sure last one was an outlier
Probably. But outliers can be a sense of direction as well.
May with a 3 pt start against campaigning Corbyn
What could possibly go wrong??
I'd assume he would get a rise from the campaign, but the idea a small lead definitely won't be enough for the Tories is just hubris, even if any Tories flippantly dismissing the idea Corbyn will play well in a campaign again are also displaying it.0 -
I think @Archer 101 may have a point when he says soft Brexit was never on offer.SeanT said:
Oh, I am. Aside from my London property (at risk, but not that much risk, I think), I have xxxxx amount in cash, xxxxxx invested in foreign shares, and I am right now drinking MOLDOVAN wine (ie, ex EU, Negru de Purcari, apparently the Queen's fave)Scott_P said:
You really aren't.SeanT said:I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal.
Hard Brexit may fuck you, but then you're an idiot. You should have prepared. Duh.0 -
You're continually telling us that the UK benefits from uncontrolled immigration.surby said:
They could also veto any FTA with the UK too. After all, 27 countries have to agree.SeanT said:
lolCarlottaVance said:
Amazed Scott P didn't retweet that.
Leaving the EU is gonna be like eating a bucket of shite. Unfortnately, the alternative, staying in, will be like eating a cauldron of shite, every year, from here to the End of Time.
The EU will never reform. As its stiff, sniffy, superior, legalistic negotiations with the UK eloquently reveal, it believes it is a new Carolingian, even Roman Empire in the making, and all those who demur must be crushed like the Parthians.
Fuck 'em.
Will East EU countries just meekly agree to any no FoM deal. After all, they don't sell BMWs and Prosecco to the UK. What's in it for them ?
In which case why would the Eastern European countries want it to continue ?0 -
I would fancy Labour biggest party if it were May vs Corbyn. A better Tory leader maybe Tories would hang on to that.kle4 said:
There is no guarantee that Corbyn would manage to have a similar or even close rise to his last effort, particularly starting from a much higher position.bigjohnowls said:
Perhaps we should have a GEMarkHopkins said:bigjohnowls said:YG 42/39
Pretty sure last one was an outlier
Probably. But outliers can be a sense of direction as well.
May with a 3 pt start against campaigning Corbyn
What could possibly go wrong??
I'd assume he would get a rise from the campaign, but the idea a small lead definitely won't be enough for the Tories is just hubris, even if any Tories flippantly dismissing the idea Corbyn will play well in a campaign again are also displaying it.0 -
How many polls has it been since labour had any sort of leadCarlottaVance said:
Nate Silver reckons that if a pollster is doing their job properly about one in twenty polls should be outliers. It’s when they have none you should worry....bigjohnowls said:YG 42/39
Pretty sure last one was an outlier0 -
Today's Tesco Strawberry score:
Aberdeenshire
Staffordshire
Herefordshire
Somerset
Surrey
Kent
A rather miserly six.0 -
That seems plausible.bigjohnowls said:
I would fancy Labour biggest party if it were May vs Corbyn. A better Tory leader maybe Tories would hang on to that.kle4 said:
There is no guarantee that Corbyn would manage to have a similar or even close rise to his last effort, particularly starting from a much higher position.bigjohnowls said:
Perhaps we should have a GEMarkHopkins said:bigjohnowls said:YG 42/39
Pretty sure last one was an outlier
Probably. But outliers can be a sense of direction as well.
May with a 3 pt start against campaigning Corbyn
What could possibly go wrong??
I'd assume he would get a rise from the campaign, but the idea a small lead definitely won't be enough for the Tories is just hubris, even if any Tories flippantly dismissing the idea Corbyn will play well in a campaign again are also displaying it.0 -
Some Service industries particularly in finance will not be able to have access to the single market. So, yes I think that Europeans will buy less. It all depends on the rules of business though to be honest. In the case of a NO deal the complexity and locking out will differ but I think people underestimate it in the UK. We will be on the other side of the EU wall and if Trump thinks the EU is protectionist to the biggest economy in the world, the US, just imagine how little traction our economy will have.steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
The thing that always makes me laugh is the comment on the UK being the biggest Importer of German cars. Well, they may well say to themselves the UK will continue to purchase our cars so we will not make it easy for them. I think this talk about whether the UK or EU would still purchase goods and services is a double edged sword. One thing is for certain if the UK is locked out of the Single market it will cause industries to suffer great turmoil. If you are not allowed to provide goods and services to a market you are pretty stuffed and winning new markets maybe impossible for some goods and services or at the least very difficult.0 -
Fuck 'em. And keep the £40 billion.SeanT said:
lolCarlottaVance said:
Amazed Scott P didn't retweet that.
Leaving the EU is gonna be like eating a bucket of shite. Unfortnately, the alternative, staying in, will be like eating a cauldron of shite, every year, from here to the End of Time.
The EU will never reform. As its stiff, sniffy, superior, legalistic negotiations with the UK eloquently reveal, it believes it is a new Carolingian, even Roman Empire in the making, and all those who demur must be crushed like the Parthians.
Fuck 'em.
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Also the previous waves of immigration the immigrants wanted to integrate in the 60's and 70's. So here in the UK they wore suits and trilbys etc, to fit in. Same in Germany, With the latest immigration we see a different view where the immigrants want to recreate the society they came from in Europe. i.e young males not shaking the hands of female teachers and not respecting their authority.SeanT said:
The Syrians who made it to Germany are virtually unemployable. It wasn't a migration of polite doctors. It was largely aggressive and uneducated young men and, as a result, German rape stats have gone of the dial.surby said:
Just look at Japan. That is what happens if there is no immigration in a country with rapid change in demography. The US on the other hand always managed to reinvigorate themselves with new immigration until NOW.LordOfReason said:
My view t the way of the Dodo when container ships, internet and demographic time bombs came along.Alanbrooke said:@Philip Thompson
BBCs take on it
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44481447
who goes first May or Merkel ?
Germany will soon have another boom like in the 60s when millions of Turks came in. In 10 years time, you will have Syrians playing for Germany like Mesut Ozil, Emre Can etc.
And no wonder it. Look at the stats for Pakistani grooming rape gangs of underage British white girls. See the outcome of the Oxford Trial today. I do not believe there was a majority of Pakistani men in Britain who were unaware this was happening, 1990-2010. Indeed I suspect most of the Pakistani community were aware this was happening, and they tolerated it (perhaps with "unhappy distaste" because felt it at least protected their own daughters).
Germany has wished this disaster upon itself. I predict Madam Merkel will be loathed in Germany as Blair as loathed in the UK (for Iraq) within a decade.
It all bodes very badly at the moment.
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That’s the line to use to non-wealthy Leave voters who are hit by a bad Brexit.SeanT said:
Oh, I am. Aside from my London property (at risk, but not that much risk, I think), I have xxxxx amount in cash, xxxxxx invested in foreign shares, and I am right now drinking MOLDOVAN wine (ie, ex EU, Negru de Purcari, apparently the Queen's fave)Scott_P said:
You really aren't.SeanT said:I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal.
Hard Brexit may fuck you, but then you're an idiot. You should have prepared. Duh.
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We all know when Hard Brexit happens Sean will go all poncey boots gaylord and demand we rejoin the EU.SouthamObserver said:
That’s the line to use to non-wealthy Leave voters who are hit by a bad Brexit.SeanT said:
Oh, I am. Aside from my London property (at risk, but not that much risk, I think), I have xxxxx amount in cash, xxxxxx invested in foreign shares, and I am right now drinking MOLDOVAN wine (ie, ex EU, Negru de Purcari, apparently the Queen's fave)Scott_P said:
You really aren't.SeanT said:I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal.
Hard Brexit may fuck you, but then you're an idiot. You should have prepared. Duh.0 -
Not again...TheScreamingEagles said:We all know when Hard Brexit happens Sean will go all poncey boots gaylord
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They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.0 -
Because they benefit too?another_richard said:
You're continually telling us that the UK benefits from uncontrolled immigration.surby said:
They could also veto any FTA with the UK too. After all, 27 countries have to agree.SeanT said:
lolCarlottaVance said:
Amazed Scott P didn't retweet that.
Leaving the EU is gonna be like eating a bucket of shite. Unfortnately, the alternative, staying in, will be like eating a cauldron of shite, every year, from here to the End of Time.
The EU will never reform. As its stiff, sniffy, superior, legalistic negotiations with the UK eloquently reveal, it believes it is a new Carolingian, even Roman Empire in the making, and all those who demur must be crushed like the Parthians.
Fuck 'em.
Will East EU countries just meekly agree to any no FoM deal. After all, they don't sell BMWs and Prosecco to the UK. What's in it for them ?
In which case why would the Eastern European countries want it to continue ?
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Pound might well drop - great for us, really good. Might be gilt yield rises in any turmoil great for the pension scheme. All might not last long and I accept it might not do others good - but it would us.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
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I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=210 -
If it will fail to increase employment how come since it was launched we've seen employment skyrocket to record levels?TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=210 -
I would happily pay taxes if required for a hard Brexit.SouthamObserver said:
That’s the line to use to non-wealthy Leave voters who are hit by a bad Brexit.SeanT said:
Oh, I am. Aside from my London property (at risk, but not that much risk, I think), I have xxxxx amount in cash, xxxxxx invested in foreign shares, and I am right now drinking MOLDOVAN wine (ie, ex EU, Negru de Purcari, apparently the Queen's fave)Scott_P said:
You really aren't.SeanT said:I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal.
Hard Brexit may fuck you, but then you're an idiot. You should have prepared. Duh.
People like you can’t get past the horror of the servant shortage.0 -
There's been a by-election in Doncaster today too btw :
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1007151724522377217
I wonder if a certain Mr Ed Miliband has been GOTV
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The Telegraph ad an article on this. What we had was a cold Feb and March, which meant the crop was delayed by 6 weeks, but the fruit was larger and juicier. As a result we have a bumper crop of extraordinary strawberries this year in size and juice. So tuck in, because the foreign imports are sub standard compared to home grown.another_richard said:Today's Tesco Strawberry score:
Aberdeenshire
Staffordshire
Herefordshire
Somerset
Surrey
Kent
A rather miserly six.0 -
' When the NHS was launched in 1948, it had a budget of £437 million (roughly £15 billion at today’s value). 'kle4 said:
I'm going to predict some reactions right now - it will be said not to be enough, and we'll have another winter crisis on our hands.Scott_P said:@alexmassie: ‘Borrowing’ and ‘tax’ are doing the heavy lifting here. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1007360201383645184
https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx
I believe that when the NHS was launched its advocates suggested that it would be so successful at improving the nation's health that funding would fall in future years.0 -
Very disappointing indeed.TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=210 -
Just coming back from Lewisham East having at least managed to convince one former UKIP voter that Ross Archer was actually a Leaver and reminded someone who had forgotten today was actually polling day. Saw both Labour and LD activists out and generally all polite but passed one LD teller who said 'you will be lucky to get 10% tonight' and 'your leader is in office but not in power' to which I replied 'at least she is in power!'
LDs really pushing Brexit hard, they had one leaflet out with both Corbyn and May's picture on the front saying 'Send them a message on Brexit today'0 -
It is failing to increase employment amongst the long term unemployed.Philip_Thompson said:
If it will fail to increase employment how come since it was launched we've seen employment skyrocket to record levels?TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=21
The new jobs are being taken by new entrants in the labour market.0 -
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.0 -
My servants are unaffected.RoyalBlue said:
I would happily pay taxes if required for a hard Brexit.SouthamObserver said:
That’s the line to use to non-wealthy Leave voters who are hit by a bad Brexit.SeanT said:
Oh, I am. Aside from my London property (at risk, but not that much risk, I think), I have xxxxx amount in cash, xxxxxx invested in foreign shares, and I am right now drinking MOLDOVAN wine (ie, ex EU, Negru de Purcari, apparently the Queen's fave)Scott_P said:
You really aren't.SeanT said:I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal.
Hard Brexit may fuck you, but then you're an idiot. You should have prepared. Duh.
People like you can’t get past the horror of the servant shortage.
We will all be paying a lot more tax, that’s for sure. Like you, I don’t have a big problem with that. Unlike you, I would pay more tax even if there were no hard Brexit.
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Then why are the numbers of unemployed and long term unemployed falling? Every single quarter the numbers of unemployed seems to shrink in absolute terms despite the growing labour pool.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is failing to increase employment amongst the long term unemployed.Philip_Thompson said:
If it will fail to increase employment how come since it was launched we've seen employment skyrocket to record levels?TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=21
The new jobs are being taken by new entrants in the labour market.0 -
And essentially it has when compared to many other nations. The difference is we now have a much higher life-expectancy and many more treatments and ailments than in 1948.another_richard said:
' When the NHS was launched in 1948, it had a budget of £437 million (roughly £15 billion at today’s value). 'kle4 said:
I'm going to predict some reactions right now - it will be said not to be enough, and we'll have another winter crisis on our hands.Scott_P said:@alexmassie: ‘Borrowing’ and ‘tax’ are doing the heavy lifting here. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1007360201383645184
https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx
I believe that when the NHS was launched its advocates suggested that it would be so successful at improving the nation's health that funding would fall in future years.0 -
LordOfReason said:
My view is Merkel didn’t invite them in out of the kindness of her heart, it was cold and calculating based on Germany’s horrendous demographic time bomb. She invited them in to make up the short fall, to exploit them, in crappy jobs and wage poverty.Alanbrooke said:@Philip Thompson
BBCs take on it
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44481447
who goes first May or Merkel ?
It's not Universal yet.Philip_Thompson said:
If it will fail to increase employment how come since it was launched we've seen employment skyrocket to record levels?TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=210 -
Now we'll have six minutes to save the NHS, rather than five.kle4 said:
I'm going to predict some reactions right now - it will be said not to be enough, and we'll have another winter crisis on our hands.Scott_P said:@alexmassie: ‘Borrowing’ and ‘tax’ are doing the heavy lifting here. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1007360201383645184
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No but it has been introduced to many areas and we're seeing record employment and record low unemployment. Are you suggesting that's a pure coincidence?Alistair said:LordOfReason said:
My view is Merkel didn’t invite them in out of the kindness of her heart, it was cold and calculating based on Germany’s horrendous demographic time bomb. She invited them in to make up the short fall, to exploit them, in crappy jobs and wage poverty.Alanbrooke said:@Philip Thompson
BBCs take on it
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44481447
who goes first May or Merkel ?
It's not Universal yet.Philip_Thompson said:
If it will fail to increase employment how come since it was launched we've seen employment skyrocket to record levels?TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=210 -
So the GET OUT THE VOTE pary wins.Scott_P said:
This used to be the Conservatives but lately has been Momentum.
However, there wasn't a Momentum candidate in Lewisham.
So who will be the GOTV party?0 -
Thanks for showing the flagHYUFD said:Just coming back from Lewisham East having at least managed to convince one former UKIP voter that Ross Archer was actually a Leaver and reminded someone who had forgotten today was actually polling day. Saw both Labour and LD activists out and generally all polite but passed one LD teller who said 'you will be lucky to get 10% tonight' and 'your leader is in office but not in power' to which I replied 'at least she is in power!'
LDs really pushing Brexit hard, they had one leaflet out with both Corbyn and May's picture on the front saying 'Send them a message on Brexit today'
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The Single Market has a population of 400 million. The UK doesn’t.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
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The most boring meme in the history of PB, among several utterly dull contenders.another_richard said:Today's Tesco Strawberry score:
Aberdeenshire
Staffordshire
Herefordshire
Somerset
Surrey
Kent
A rather miserly six.0 -
When was it introduced ?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is failing to increase employment amongst the long term unemployed.Philip_Thompson said:
If it will fail to increase employment how come since it was launched we've seen employment skyrocket to record levels?TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=21
The new jobs are being taken by new entrants in the labour market.
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US Dollar up 1.85% against the Euro.
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I'm surprised any country exports stuff to the EU. FF43 makes it sound impossible!steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.0 -
Not all will move from the the UK to the EU and not all at once. But no-one will be investing in the UK because of Brexit while plenty of companies are making the marginal decisions to place their investments in the EU and out of the UK.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.0 -
Thank you, looking at the turnout I think every party was just trying to get out who they canRoyalBlue said:
Thanks for showing the flagHYUFD said:Just coming back from Lewisham East having at least managed to convince one former UKIP voter that Ross Archer was actually a Leaver and reminded someone who had forgotten today was actually polling day. Saw both Labour and LD activists out and generally all polite but passed one LD teller who said 'you will be lucky to get 10% tonight' and 'your leader is in office but not in power' to which I replied 'at least she is in power!'
LDs really pushing Brexit hard, they had one leaflet out with both Corbyn and May's picture on the front saying 'Send them a message on Brexit today'0 -
No-one? You are predicting zero investment in the UK after Brexit?FF43 said:
Not all will move from the the UK to the EU and not all at once. But no-one will be investing in the UK because of Brexit while plenty of companies are making the marginal decisions to place their investments in the EU and out of the UK.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
A job at the Treasury beckons.0 -
It probably won’t have 400 million in 50 years as large parts of Eastern Europe are depopulated.SouthamObserver said:
The Single Market has a population of 400 million. The UK doesn’t.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.0 -
No universal credit will finally ensure work always pays and in the long one be a savingTheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=210 -
Be prepared to be bored all summer long.Anazina said:
The most boring meme in the history of PB, among several utterly dull contenders.another_richard said:Today's Tesco Strawberry score:
Aberdeenshire
Staffordshire
Herefordshire
Somerset
Surrey
Kent
A rather miserly six.
And were you equally bored by fake news about crops rotting in the fields ?
0 -
Let me just summarise this headline article's contents
'Lib Dems believe they are going to lose'
On a World Cup related note, the new Dutch postal service stamp takes some beating. Worth looking up the story.0 -
We could combine them by saying people can vote for their favourite pizza toppings of strawberries or pineapple using the Alternative Vote.Anazina said:
The most boring meme in the history of PB, among several utterly dull contenders.another_richard said:Today's Tesco Strawberry score:
Aberdeenshire
Staffordshire
Herefordshire
Somerset
Surrey
Kent
A rather miserly six.0 -
Companies that want to fill the demand left the by the European companies whose products are now un-competitive in the UK will fill the hole.FF43 said:
Not all will move from the the UK to the EU and not all at once. But no-one will be investing in the UK because of Brexit while plenty of companies are making the marginal decisions to place their investments in the EU and out of the UK.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
The lesson of the 30's is that the countries that had a trade deficit did better than those that had a surplus.0 -
So you agree with FF43 then that if there's a No Deal Brexit the UK will simply stop exporting to the EU? You people are so bloody negative about Britain.SouthamObserver said:
The Single Market has a population of 400 million. The UK doesn’t.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
0 -
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
0 -
Dominic Grieve MP on Radio 4 just now has called the Daily Mail a "vile" newspaper, which seeks to stir up hatred.0
-
Don’t worry Anazina. When it comes to boring and repetitious you’re in a league of your own.Anazina said:
The most boring meme in the history of PB, among several utterly dull contenders.another_richard said:Today's Tesco Strawberry score:
Aberdeenshire
Staffordshire
Herefordshire
Somerset
Surrey
Kent
A rather miserly six.
At least Mr Meeks has flashes of wit and originality amongst the horde of XENOPHOBIC LIES.0 -
Are you suggesting AV, the most amazing voting system known to mankind, is some kind of boring meme on PB?ydoethur said:
We could combine them by saying people can vote for their favourite pizza toppings of strawberries or pineapple using the Alternative Vote.Anazina said:
The most boring meme in the history of PB, among several utterly dull contenders.another_richard said:Today's Tesco Strawberry score:
Aberdeenshire
Staffordshire
Herefordshire
Somerset
Surrey
Kent
A rather miserly six.
0 -
This ???Y0kel said:Let me just summarise this headline articles contents
'Lib Dems believe they are going to lose'
On a World Cup related note, the new Dutch postal service stamp takes some beating. Worth looking up the story.
https://twitter.com/ianbateson/status/1007205291849584642
0 -
Do we still have one? Never hear anything come out of it these days...RobD said:
No-one? You are predicting zero investment in the UK after Brexit?FF43 said:
Not all will move from the the UK to the EU and not all at once. But no-one will be investing in the UK because of Brexit while plenty of companies are making the marginal decisions to place their investments in the EU and out of the UK.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
A job at the Treasury beckons.0 -
Well he does not have to buy it.0
-
So, right, where's this exit poll then????!0
-
He toned that down.augustus_carp said:Dominic Grieve MP on Radio 4 just now has called the Daily Mail a "vile" newspaper, which seeks to stir up hatred.
0 -
Being able to order stamps with any image you want sounds a bit risky. Surely there's an approval process?another_richard said:
This ???Y0kel said:Let me just summarise this headline articles contents
'Lib Dems believe they are going to lose'
On a World Cup related note, the new Dutch postal service stamp takes some beating. Worth looking up the story.
https://twitter.com/ianbateson/status/10072052918495846420 -
It is still being rolled out.another_richard said:
When was it introduced ?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is failing to increase employment amongst the long term unemployed.Philip_Thompson said:
If it will fail to increase employment how come since it was launched we've seen employment skyrocket to record levels?TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=21
The new jobs are being taken by new entrants in the labour market.
They are doing it in several phases0 -
You really need to live in the real world.HYUFD said:
No universal credit will finally ensure work always pays and in the long one be a savingTheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=21
It might help you win council seats.0 -
Better known as the Daily Blackshirt!Jonathan said:
He toned that down.augustus_carp said:Dominic Grieve MP on Radio 4 just now has called the Daily Mail a "vile" newspaper, which seeks to stir up hatred.
0 -
Perhaps he thinks it should be censored.augustus_carp said:Dominic Grieve MP on Radio 4 just now has called the Daily Mail a "vile" newspaper, which seeks to stir up hatred.
0 -
The refugees came to Germany in large numbers because Mrs Merkel, a woman of few firm principles, is nevertheless passionate about freedom of movement and refused to impose a border with Austria and other countries. Knowing this, Austria etc just allowed the refugees to pass through rather than try to prevent them coming into their countries. Those countries knew they would get rid of any refugees.LordOfReason said:
My view is Merkel didn’t invite them in out of the kindness of her heart, it was cold and calculating based on Germany’s horrendous demographic time bomb. She invited them in to make up the short fall, to exploit them, in crappy jobs and wage poverty.Alanbrooke said:@Philip Thompson
BBCs take on it
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44481447
who goes first May or Merkel ?
[...]0 -
That's about as shocking as calling the Pope Catholic!augustus_carp said:Dominic Grieve MP on Radio 4 just now has called the Daily Mail a "vile" newspaper, which seeks to stir up hatred.
0 -
It's always amused me somewhat that the Mail is never allowed to forget its brief flirtation with Fascism, while the Mirror, who were unabashed supporters of Mosley for far longer and whose readership was a great deal more - shall we say - niche is given a free pass on the issue.justin124 said:
Better known as the Daily Blackshirt!Jonathan said:
He toned that down.augustus_carp said:Dominic Grieve MP on Radio 4 just now has called the Daily Mail a "vile" newspaper, which seeks to stir up hatred.
0 -
I didn't say that.steve_garner said:
So you agree with FF43 then that if there's a No Deal Brexit the UK will simply stop exporting to the EU? You people are so bloody negative about Britain.SouthamObserver said:
The Single Market has a population of 400 million. The UK doesn’t.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.0 -
The difficulty will be , when the migration of existing claimants on legacy benefits starts.HYUFD said:
No universal credit will finally ensure work always pays and in the long one be a savingTheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=21
For example the more complex cases, with severely disabled children.
Also all the payment going to one parent rather than it been able to be split .
(I think this is been looked at )0 -
There is bound to be a fall in exports. Brexit is like putting sanctions on your own economy! If you cannot use your current supply chain or sell across borders how can you export?steve_garner said:
So you agree with FF43 then that if there's a No Deal Brexit the UK will simply stop exporting to the EU? You people are so bloody negative about Britain.SouthamObserver said:
The Single Market has a population of 400 million. The UK doesn’t.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
Again, the Exports we currently receive income for providing need to be replaced by Exports elsewhere. If not the country will not be as prosperous and we will fall behind our competitors. It is not simply a case of selling something to one market and saying never mind we can sell it somewhere else. The world does not work like that! You have to have a demand for the product you are selling.
Preparing for Brexit is like preparing to fail. I can see this becoming very unpopular even with those duped into supporting it.0 -
I do not believe that was FF43’s point. The point being made is that if your biggest market is the single market you are likely to be better off based inside it than outside it. I don’t see how that is being negative about Britain.steve_garner said:
So you agree with FF43 then that if there's a No Deal Brexit the UK will simply stop exporting to the EU? You people are so bloody negative about Britain.SouthamObserver said:
The Single Market has a population of 400 million. The UK doesn’t.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
0 -
Perhaps because the Mail has continued to plough a very rightwing furrow - every bit as extreme as The Morning Star or Socialist Worker on the left.ydoethur said:
It's always amused me somewhat that the Mail is never allowed to forget its brief flirtation with Fascism, while the Mirror, who were unabashed supporters of Mosley for far longer and whose readership was a great deal more - shall we say - niche is given a free pass on the issue.justin124 said:
Better known as the Daily Blackshirt!Jonathan said:
He toned that down.augustus_carp said:Dominic Grieve MP on Radio 4 just now has called the Daily Mail a "vile" newspaper, which seeks to stir up hatred.
0 -
Thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is still being rolled out.another_richard said:
When was it introduced ?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is failing to increase employment amongst the long term unemployed.Philip_Thompson said:
If it will fail to increase employment how come since it was launched we've seen employment skyrocket to record levels?TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=21
The new jobs are being taken by new entrants in the labour market.
They are doing it in several phases
Its still behind schedule then - not surprisingly.
As to its effect on the long term unemployed there's clearly a 'Giro Jim' component to them, how big that is I don't know.0 -
Well, I was shocked to hear a Conservative MP say it......Philip_Thompson said:
That's about as shocking as calling the Pope Catholic!augustus_carp said:Dominic Grieve MP on Radio 4 just now has called the Daily Mail a "vile" newspaper, which seeks to stir up hatred.
0 -
I am guessing you don’t think publications that seek to stir up hatred should be banned, so why should he?Sean_F said:
Perhaps he thinks it should be censored.augustus_carp said:Dominic Grieve MP on Radio 4 just now has called the Daily Mail a "vile" newspaper, which seeks to stir up hatred.
0 -
He literally predicted zero investment in the UK after Brexit. There's being negative, but that's something else entirely!SouthamObserver said:
I do not believe that was FF43’s point. The point being made is that if your biggest market is the single market you are likely to be better off based inside it than outside it. I don’t see how that is being negative about Britain.0 -
With his actions around Brexit, he's created more anger than the Mail ever can. Foul, vile little man, no doubt in bed with his EU masters.Philip_Thompson said:
That's about as shocking as calling the Pope Catholic!augustus_carp said:Dominic Grieve MP on Radio 4 just now has called the Daily Mail a "vile" newspaper, which seeks to stir up hatred.
0 -
The only thing duller than memes are people who get so worked up about them that they complain about them endlessly, creating their own meme like Pavlovian reaction. Memes die on their own without any help, whinging about them just makes them last longer, making the complainers their own worst enemy, as new enjoyment is found in provoking the reaction. Just ask everyone who puts in emojis to their posts when Tyson expresses his dislike of them.Anazina said:
The most boring meme in the history of PB, among several utterly dull contenders.another_richard said:Today's Tesco Strawberry score:
Aberdeenshire
Staffordshire
Herefordshire
Somerset
Surrey
Kent
A rather miserly six.0 -
No-one. Because of Brexit.FF43 said:
Not all will move from the the UK to the EU and not all at once. But no-one will be investing in the UK because of Brexit while plenty of companies are making the marginal decisions to place their investments in the EU and out of the UK.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
Riiiiight........0 -
In many instances, the UK market isn’t big enough to justify the investments needed to build production facilities from scratch.ralphmalph said:
Companies that want to fill the demand left the by the European companies whose products are now un-competitive in the UK will fill the hole.FF43 said:
Not all will move from the the UK to the EU and not all at once. But no-one will be investing in the UK because of Brexit while plenty of companies are making the marginal decisions to place their investments in the EU and out of the UK.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
The lesson of the 30's is that the countries that had a trade deficit did better than those that had a surplus.
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kle4 said:
The only thing duller than memes are people who get so worked up about them that they complain about them endlessly, creating their own meme like Pavlovian reaction. Memes die on their own without any help, whinging about them just makes them last longer. Just ask everyone who puts in emojis to their posts when Tyson expresses his dislike of them.Anazina said:
The most boring meme in the history of PB, among several utterly dull contenders.another_richard said:Today's Tesco Strawberry score:
Aberdeenshire
Staffordshire
Herefordshire
Somerset
Surrey
Kent
A rather miserly six.
0 -
another_richard said:
Thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is still being rolled out.another_richard said:
When was it introduced ?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is failing to increase employment amongst the long term unemployed.Philip_Thompson said:
If it will fail to increase employment how come since it was launched we've seen employment skyrocket to record levels?TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=21
The new jobs are being taken by new entrants in the labour market.
They are doing it in several phases
Its still behind schedule then - not surprisingly.
As to its effect on the long term unemployed there's clearly a 'Giro Jim' component to them, how big that is I don't know.
UC is a bit like Brexit.
We can go slowly or we can go fast, but when going through hell, keep on going.
We can emerge with something better.
0 -
Only if it's cost effective to produce uniquely for a market of 60 million. For a lot of products it won't be. Cars for example. In that case the goods will have to be imported. Not necessarily from the EU, but they won't be made in the UK, unlike now. That's the point I'm making.ralphmalph said:
Companies that want to fill the demand left the by the European companies whose products are now un-competitive in the UK will fill the hole.FF43 said:
Not all will move from the the UK to the EU and not all at once. But no-one will be investing in the UK because of Brexit while plenty of companies are making the marginal decisions to place their investments in the EU and out of the UK.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do ...SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
The lesson of the 30's is that the countries that had a trade deficit did better than those that had a surplus.0 -
The impact would be mitigated by a fall in imports from the EU.The_Taxman said:
There is bound to be a fall in exports. Brexit is like putting sanctions on your own economy! If you cannot use your current supply chain or sell across borders how can you export?steve_garner said:
So you agree with FF43 then that if there's a No Deal Brexit the UK will simply stop exporting to the EU? You people are so bloody negative about Britain.SouthamObserver said:
The Single Market has a population of 400 million. The UK doesn’t.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
Again, the exports we currently receive income for providing need to be replaced by Exports elsewhere. If not the country will not be as prosperous and we will fall behind our competitors. It is not simply a case of selling something to one market and saying never mind we can sell it somewhere else. The world does not work like that! You have to have a demand for the product you are selling.
Preparing for Brexit is like preparing to fail. I can see this becoming very unpopular even with those duped into supporting it.0 -
I think you're optimistic. The government doesn't have the numbers to positively for specific options, and lacks the numbers to accept fall back options, so inadvertent crash out looks much more likely to me.HYUFD said:
A Canada style FTA remain the likeliest long term outcomekle4 said:
That's why No Deal and No Brexit seem the most likely outcomes - the parliament (and the Tory Party) can politically only accept things which apparently are no goers. It's not even a matter of May capitulating at the end of it, since it may be simply impossible for her to do so.williamglenn said:
I may be naiive, but even among the murky depths of politics there must be times when you need to trust someone, on your side or another side, and while spin and obfuscation and other tactics are all part of the game, certain behaviours, direct deceipt for instance, will not be regarded as sensible tactics, and will lead to personal disagreements the likes of which will cause some people to behave irrationally out of anger down the line.felix said:
I always thought - as do most voters- that politics was just another word for deceit plus Gieve and Soubry are both lawyers and that is their stock in trade.kle4 said:
If May is prepared to deceive them (which they seem to think she did, even if she would say otherwise) then their previous reluctance to unintentionally engender such an outcome might alter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the rebels want Boris do theyTheScreamingEagles said:I think Sir Graham Brady's postie will be very busy in the next few days.
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Since only we and Ireland drive on the left, cars are - whilst mostly similar - already finished for the UK market. I can't see our rules differentiating any more than thatFF43 said:
Only if it's cost effective to produce uniquely for a market of 60 million. For a lot of products it won't be. Cars for example. In that case the goods will have to be imported. Not necessarily from the EU, but they won't be made in the UK, unlike now. That's the point I'm making.ralphmalph said:
Companies that want to fill the demand left the by the European companies whose products are now un-competitive in the UK will fill the hole.FF43 said:
Not all will move from the the UK to the EU and not all at once. But no-one will be investing in the UK because of Brexit while plenty of companies are making the marginal decisions to place their investments in the EU and out of the UK.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do ...SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
The lesson of the 30's is that the countries that had a trade deficit did better than those that had a surplus.0 -
Like Jacob Rees Mogg and Somerset Capital Management then! They have next to No investment in the UK! JRM backing Britain- NOT!RobD said:
He literally predicted zero investment in the UK after Brexit. There's being negative, but that's something else entirely!SouthamObserver said:
I do not believe that was FF43’s point. The point being made is that if your biggest market is the single market you are likely to be better off based inside it than outside it. I don’t see how that is being negative about Britain.0 -
What investments in the UK do you see Brexit generating?welshowl said:
No-one. Because of Brexit.FF43 said:
Not all will move from the the UK to the EU and not all at once. But no-one will be investing in the UK because of Brexit while plenty of companies are making the marginal decisions to place their investments in the EU and out of the UK.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll over to non-European customers? I would like to see you sell Dutch books in China or German books in India!SeanT said:williamglenn said:
I think many of us are now prepared for No Deal. It will fuck everything up for a year or two, and London property owners (like me) will take a major hit, but we are the British, we have been through far, far worse.
And in the end, total freedom from the EU might well be a huge economic boost. Who knows?
Either way we shall be free. If it is No Deal. So be it.
I have never understood why Derivative trading in London for German, French or Italian customers will be magically changed to countries that might not have developed to the point where they need high ended Financial services for instance.
I just think Brexit is a process of self harm economically and downturns are NEVER easy for those who are afflicted by the fall out.
I doubt property will take much of a hit by the way. The Bank of England will just relax monetary policy to compensate, if Sterling falls more outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.
Riiiiight........
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That's not really relevant. We make our money from our exports. If we import less that's because we can't afford it.Sean_F said:
The impact would be mitigated by a fall in imports from the EU.The_Taxman said:
There is bound to be a fall in exports. Brexit is like putting sanctions on your own economy! If you cannot use your current supply chain or sell across borders how can you export?steve_garner said:
So you agree with FF43 then that if there's a No Deal Brexit the UK will simply stop exporting to the EU? You people are so bloody negative about Britain.SouthamObserver said:
The Single Market has a population of 400 million. The UK doesn’t.steve_garner said:
So you think all the British companies that export to the EU will just move operations to Europe then? Do you think all the European companies that export to Britain will do the reverse?FF43 said:
They won't be made in Britain any more. Why produce stuff in the UK for sale to the EU when you can produce it in the EU and avoid the costs and hassle of exporting?steve_garner said:
Do you think all Europeans are going to stop buying British goods after a no deal Brexit?The_Taxman said:
Yeah, do you really think that British exports purchased by European customers are going to magically roll outside buyers will invest in property at the right price. If interest rates are lower it will pull in more buyers. If salaries fall it might have a negative affect but i doubt that is going to happen.SeanT said:
Again, the exports we currently receive income for providing need to be replaced by Exports elsewhere. If not the country will not be as prosperous and we will fall behind our competitors. It is not simply a case of selling something to one market and saying never mind we can sell it somewhere else. The world does not work like that! You have to have a demand for the product you are selling.
Preparing for Brexit is like preparing to fail. I can see this becoming very unpopular even with those duped into supporting it.0 -
They trialled it in a few places.another_richard said:
Thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is still being rolled out.another_richard said:
When was it introduced ?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is failing to increase employment amongst the long term unemployed.Philip_Thompson said:
If it will fail to increase employment how come since it was launched we've seen employment skyrocket to record levels?TheScreamingEagles said:I’ve been banging on about this for years. IDS has left a nuclear booby trap for the Tories.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1007365722346016768?s=21
The new jobs are being taken by new entrants in the labour market.
They are doing it in several phases
Its still behind schedule then - not surprisingly.
As to its effect on the long term unemployed there's clearly a 'Giro Jim' component to them, how big that is I don't know.
Then rolled it out to other places where new claimants are automatically put on Universal Credit.
Then the plan is by 2020 move across all other existing benefit claimants.
The ticking timebomb is most of the tax credits recipients are yet to move over to UC.
My friend works in a UC JCP and she says it is a disaster. It is great in theory but the logistics of it are messed up.
Many moons ago I used to volunteer 3 hours a week helping the families of prisoners with problems, the chap that runs that clinic says UC is so pernicious, it is an Orwellian nightmare.
Says he's branched out to helping any families and he and his staff are having to give them money and food, that's how bad the situation is.0 -
The result in Lewisham is expected around 3am.
I'm off to bed 'cause it is Eid tomorrow, one of the two days a year I have to pretend to be a good Muslim.0 -
No, he didn’t. He said Brexit would not lead to people investing in the UK.RobD said:
He literally predicted zero investment in the UK after Brexit. There's being negative, but that's something else entirely!SouthamObserver said:
I do not believe that was FF43’s point. The point being made is that if your biggest market is the single market you are likely to be better off based inside it than outside it. I don’t see how that is being negative about Britain.
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This discussion has been closed.