Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Worst Economic Statistic?

124

Comments

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    Yorkcity said:
    Seems counter productive of her if a version of his amendment is sent back to the Commons and there are possibly enough remainer rebels, plus maybe a few furious May misled those rebels.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    Yorkcity said:
    You do wonder if the whips feel they have the numbers to defeat Grieve et al
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Perhaps it’s time for May to threaten resignation if the Grieve amendment passes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    maaarsh said:

    Precisely because no one takes them remotely seriously, we might as well fling them around.

    In a democracy, the people are Sovereign. They expressed a will and he is now exerting any and every influence and power he has to thwart that will.
    If the people were sovereign the referendum would have been binding (and required a lot more clarity over what specifically Leave meant). We remain a representative democracy, with the MPs to interpret the best way to give effect to the direction we gave them. That system has many strengths, but will also mean some of those representatives will be free to try to reject that public direction (which can be a strength if the public will has changed significantly though in this case it is still so close).
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    kle4 said:

    Must say I did like the article on Unherd about "Six types of 'Useful Idiot'"

    https://unherd.com/2018/06/six-types-useful-idiot/

    I'm much in favour of expanding it as a term so it is not restricted to one wing of politics (it does list examples for both) or a narrow scenario eg for communist nations.

    I did too.

    These sorts of views are adopted by people who do not bear (or think they will not bear) the consequences of the views they espouse.

    This attitude was accurately described by the late Tony Judt:

    “Totalitarianism of the Left, much like an earlier totalitarianism of the Right, was about violence and power and control, and it appealed because of these features, not in spite of them."

    Too many people who claim to have principles such as anti-racism etc view these as akin to a coat you put on or discard, depending on context, but fundamentally there to show you off and to attack others. Rather than as a moral imperative which should guide their actions.

    Hence the desire to shut down debate, attack those who disagree, make illegitimate the very idea of honest disagreement.

    And therefore too many such people believe any old rubbish if it will enable them to control others.

    "Mistaken ideas always end in bloodshed but in every case it is someone else's blood . That is why some of our thinkers feel free to say just about anything." (Albert Camus)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302

    Must delete that post where I said Russia are shite at soccer.

    Just to complete my education, at what point in the game did the Saudi odds improve allowing you to take your profit?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,674
    RoyalBlue said:

    Perhaps it’s time for May to threaten resignation if the Grieve amendment passes.

    So that'll mean at least 100 Tory MPs will support the Grieve amendment.

    I like your thinking.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    kle4 said:

    Seems counter productive of her if a version of his amendment is sent back to the Commons and there are possibly enough remainer rebels, plus maybe a few furious May misled those rebels.
    I think she knows she has the numbers and Grieve and co , fold very easily.
    Also reality has at last hit her, upset 10 to 15 or piss of the rest.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255

    Says the man whose side was balls deep in with Russia.

    You're overcompensating, you're the traitor mate.

    Before you know you'll be paying your taxes in a foreign country instead of the Exchequer.
    You do talk some bollocks sometimes.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    RoyalBlue said:

    Perhaps it’s time for May to threaten resignation if the Grieve amendment passes.

    Time for Grieve and Sour-by 's constituency chairpersons to have word in their shell like.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,674

    Just to complete my education, at what point in the game did the Saudi odds improve allowing you to take your profit?
    I didn't trade out, I was too distracted by working out what to with my betting portfolio on Jezza Hunt as Theresa May's successor.

    Tipped at 100/1 and 66/1
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,079
    kle4 said:

    Sourby? Freudian slip?

    I must say I don't really know how many of these rebels there are supposed to be - I know rebels will always talk up their numbers, but outside the most recalcitrant trio of Clarke, Grieve and Soubry I cannot think of any off the top of my head, so most will be less prominent even if there are 15-20 I assume.
    Soubry, Morgan, Wollaston, Djanogly, Hammond, Allen, Lefroy, Neill, Grieve, Clarke, Sandbach, Heald, Spelman, Masterton and allegedly more still to come out.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    You do wonder if the whips feel they have the numbers to defeat Grieve et al
    If they did presumably May would not have felt the need to mislead the rebels in the first place/been so vague and muddled that they allowed themselves to be misled (delete as appropriate).

    Perhaps they did not know how many labour rebels they might get on board, and will feel more confident in not needing to mollify Grieve and co (or at least some of them,a couple clearly are never going to be on board)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,408
    So, who's coming second in Lewisham?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    I didn't trade out, I was too distracted by working out what to with my betting portfolio on Jezza Hunt as Theresa May's successor.

    Tipped at 100/1 and 66/1
    You didn’t trade out because the odds never shortened!!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,674
    rcs1000 said:

    So, who's coming second in Lewisham?

    Your father says the Lib Dems.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Barnesian said:

    Soubry, Morgan, Wollaston, Djanogly, Hammond, Allen, Lefroy, Neill, Grieve, Clarke, Sandbach, Heald, Spelman, Masterton and allegedly more still to come out.
    Morgan co wrote the government amendment and supported it, would be difficult for her to go back on that now. Sandbach and Wollaston are in the same basket also. Allen, Grieve, Clarke and Soubry are the four I'd say are certain to rebel against anything that takes us out of the EU. The rest are bidable to a certain degree.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    Barnesian said:

    Soubry, Morgan, Wollaston, Djanogly, Hammond, Allen, Lefroy, Neill, Grieve, Clarke, Sandbach, Heald, Spelman, Masterton and allegedly more still to come out.
    Many Cons MPs are furious with the current leadership but simply do not vote against their own government. It’s one reason I think JRM et al have kept quiet.

    I can’t see those MPs changing unless there is substantive movement towards a hard Brexit by May.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,674
    TOPPING said:

    You didn’t trade out because the odds never shortened!!
    I fear for the next five weeks I'm going to tip more rubbish than a forklift truck.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    kle4 said:

    If they did presumably May would not have felt the need to mislead the rebels in the first place/been so vague and muddled that they allowed themselves to be misled (delete as appropriate).

    Perhaps they did not know how many labour rebels they might get on board, and will feel more confident in not needing to mollify Grieve and co (or at least some of them,a couple clearly are never going to be on board)
    I may have this wrong but didn't 15 labour rebels vote against the EEA.

    That is as many labour rebels as conservative ones
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    I fear for the next five weeks I'm going to tip more rubbish than a forklift truck.
    All tips welcome!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    TOPPING said:

    Nyetimber is very good but quite spenny if you want to dip your toe in (metaphorically speaking).
    I'll keep a look out this summer, under £100 per bottle or over?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    MaxPB said:

    I'll keep a look out this summer, under £100 per bottle or over?
    About £40 so plenty of change from £100.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    TOPPING said:

    About £40 so plenty of change from £100.
    I'll definitely have a look in that case.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302

    I fear for the next five weeks I'm going to tip more rubbish than a forklift truck.
    Haha tbf Saudi were very, very poor... and everything went right for the Russians.

    I can't see them getting beyond the quarters though (which someone will no doubt remind me of when they pick up the trophy :wink:)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,408
    MaxPB said:

    I'll keep a look out this summer, under £100 per bottle or over?
    Well under. I think it's about £30/bottle. Very nice too.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    MaxPB said:

    I'll keep a look out this summer, under £100 per bottle or over?
    Seriously, is it ever worth spending £100 on a bottle of wine - except to show off?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,408

    Seriously, is it ever worth spending £100 on a bottle of wine - except to show off?
    Everybody should drink Angelus at least once.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    My hazy impression had been that the remainer rebels felt they'd be promised more than that, so whether they are reasonable or not I can see why they feel this does not meet what they were apparently promised.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    rcs1000 said:

    Everybody should drink Angelus at least once.
    You'll have to do a video on it - maybe that would convince me.

    (It probably would actually, if the others are anything to go by. :smile:)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,408
    rcs1000 said:

    Everybody should drink Angelus at least once.
    And Ridge Montebello is outstanding. (Although probably a smidgen below £100)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,529
    MaxPB said:

    I'll keep a look out this summer, under £100 per bottle or over?
    £31.99 at Amazon

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nyetimber-Classic-Cuvee-Sparkling-Wine/dp/B00VPVT79I/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1528998241&sr=8-1&keywords=nyetimber
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    Seriously, is it ever worth spending £100 on a bottle of wine - except to show off?
    TOPPING previously suggested it was fairly expensive. £30-40 doesn't fall in the "expensive" category for wine.

    I've been working my way through some Grange vintages, so I'd have to say yes, it is worth spending over £100 on wine.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    kle4 said:

    My hazy impression had been that the remainer rebels felt they'd be promised more than that, so whether they are reasonable or not I can see why they feel this does not meet what they were apparently promised.
    Another view is that the Remainers have been claiming that they don’t want to stop Brexit but are now objecting that they can’t.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,079
    MaxPB said:

    Morgan co wrote the government amendment and supported it, would be difficult for her to go back on that now. Sandbach and Wollaston are in the same basket also. Allen, Grieve, Clarke and Soubry are the four I'd say are certain to rebel against anything that takes us out of the EU. The rest are bidable to a certain degree.
    Not the final version as I understand it. I agree some are biddable. Others haven't come out yet but will now better understand Grieve's issue , namely to prevent a no deal outcome that would be disastrous for the country and could happen by accident or negligence. A process is needed to prevent that. Taking back control.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    £31.99 at Amazon

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nyetimber-Classic-Cuvee-Sparkling-Wine/dp/B00VPVT79I/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1528998241&sr=8-1&keywords=nyetimber
    Thanks, I'm trying to de-Amazon my shopping habits. Found it on Waitrose for a bit more. Ordered some, will be in London this weekend as well.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,529

    Seriously, is it ever worth spending £100 on a bottle of wine - except to show off?
    I'm very grateful that I do not have an ultra-equisitely refined palette which would require me to spend that much.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    Another view is that the Remainers have been claiming that they don’t want to stop Brexit but are now objecting that they can’t.
    That's why I added the 'reasonable or not' caveat. But whether they wanted to be able to stop Brexit and could not under this, the question is whether what they were promised matches what has been offered, and it doesn't sound like it, therefore they claim to have been misled and have no reason to play nice ever again.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017
    Well, May is once again showing the EU that she cannot be trusted. Not sure that’s going to help move things along.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,079
    edited June 2018

    I may have this wrong but didn't 15 labour rebels vote against the EEA.

    That is as many labour rebels as conservative ones
    EEA is a different issue to meaningful vote and avoiding a no deal outcome. There were only five Labour rebels on the meaningful vote amendment.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING previously suggested it was fairly expensive. £30-40 doesn't fall in the "expensive" category for wine.

    I've been working my way through some Grange vintages, so I'd have to say yes, it is worth spending over £100 on wine.
    Not sure my pallet is sophisticated enough tbh. Plus, as a poor pensioner...

    I'm going to stick to my Saint Clair Pioneer Block 14 PN, which at about £20 a bottle is very lovely, and highly recommended.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    Well, May is once again showing the EU that she cannot be trusted. Not sure that’s going to help move things along.

    We've been repeatedly told they will not shift from their red lines and that our proposals so far have been rejected, so it seems like it would hardly matter since they won't budge regardless.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,079

    Another view is that the Remainers have been claiming that they don’t want to stop Brexit but are now objecting that they can’t.
    They are objecting that they can't stop a no deal outcome.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,854
    Why didn’t May ask Trump for the keys to the White House?
    https://twitter.com/albertonardelli/status/1007271918171512833?s=21
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,529
    MaxPB said:

    Thanks, I'm trying to de-Amazon my shopping habits. Found it on Waitrose for a bit more. Ordered some, will be in London this weekend as well.
    I find that few things on Amazon are good value.

    Unfortunately I have a credit balance with them and they keep offering me 'deposit £40 get an extra £10 free'.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    Not sure my pallet is sophisticated enough tbh. Plus, as a poor pensioner...

    I'm going to stick to my Saint Clair Pioneer Block 14 PN, which at about £20 a bottle is very lovely, and highly recommended.
    Not much of a white wine drinker but I'll add it to the Waitrose order if they've got it. If you go to Australia then I think one bottle of the Grange is a must have.

    I never really got on with wine when I stuck to old world ones, it was only when I started to try Australian reds that I finally understood wine.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING previously suggested it was fairly expensive. £30-40 doesn't fall in the "expensive" category for wine.

    I've been working my way through some Grange vintages, so I'd have to say yes, it is worth spending over £100 on wine.
    It’s a decent quaffing champagne which is more expensive than Bolly. Which I prefer.

    If we’re talking expensive wines that’s a completely different conversation. And @rcs1000 good luck with getting a bottle of Angelus for £100!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    MaxPB said:

    Thanks, I'm trying to de-Amazon my shopping habits. Found it on Waitrose for a bit more. Ordered some, will be in London this weekend as well.
    A few years ago I happened to be in my regular London home-from-home, the Southwark Street Mercure, when they celebrated their anniversary (apparently that Mercure was the first in the country).

    They laid on free Nytimber, oysters, and canapes all evening - definitely one of my best slumming it in a hotel on work duties experiences. I thought it was a very nice touch to choose English fizz, and it's certainly as good as many Champagnes.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,677
    TGOHF said:

    Time for Grieve and Sour-by 's constituency chairpersons to have word in their shell like.
    Soubry's constituency has had strongly pro-EU MPs for 40 years (Soubry/me/Lester) - it is simply not a deselectable issue there. *I'm* probably the least pro-EU of the three and I'm in favour of eventually becoming a single country (I do concede it's not perfect!). The seat did in fact narrowly vote Leave, but not with any great enthusiasm, and UKIP et al have never got anywhere there.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    MaxPB said:

    Not much of a white wine drinker but I'll add it to the Waitrose order if they've got it. If you go to Australia then I think one bottle of the Grange is a must have.

    I never really got on with wine when I stuck to old world ones, it was only when I started to try Australian reds that I finally understood wine.
    The Saint Clair's a red (PN - Pinot Noir) though they do have a very drinkable sauvignon blanc too.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Well, May is once again showing the EU that she cannot be trusted. Not sure that’s going to help move things along.

    She àt last is taking control of her party.That is an improvement .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    Is there really time to amend anything past next February ?????
    It is past the final whistle tbh
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275
    edited June 2018
    The Remainers cannot stop NO DEAL in any event. If there is no agreed withdrawal treaty then we are taken out via A50. Some politicians are deluded into thinking that they have power to influence when they do not.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    The seat did in fact narrowly vote Leave, but not with any great enthusiasm
    How do you judge that? Are there seats which voted Leave by the same proportion, but with greater enthusiasm?

    I just don't know how that enthusiasm is measured.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,682
    edited June 2018
    TGOHF said:

    There is a hard border sign between Scotland and England.

    Big aluminium thing with with "Welcome to Scotland" on it.
    There's also "Croeso i Gymru!" at the western end of the Severn Rail Tunnel
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235

    Soubry's constituency has had strongly pro-EU MPs for 40 years (Soubry/me/Lester) - it is simply not a deselectable issue there. *I'm* probably the least pro-EU of the three and I'm in favour of eventually becoming a single country (I do concede it's not perfect!). The seat did in fact narrowly vote Leave, but not with any great enthusiasm, and UKIP et al have never got anywhere there.
    You're in favour of becoming a single COUNTRY ?!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    Pulpstar said:

    You're in favour of becoming a single COUNTRY ?!
    Not sure why if such a utopian vision is desirable for someone it should stop at Europe, ,frankly.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Turnout in the south of the constituency reported to be "very low".
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    PeterC said:

    The Remainers cannot stop NO DEAL in any event. If there is no agreed withdrawal treaty then we are taken out via A50. Some politicians are deluded into thinking that they have power to influence when they do not.
    The EU doesn't have much of a history of following the rules when they're inconvenient.

    As much as I'd love a no deal result, they'd be some sort of ultra vires fudge cooked up in the week before if required to create a bit more time.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited June 2018
    Nyetimber is very good, although having said that I've been a bit disappointed with the last couple of bottles I've tried. What really did impress me though was their rosé. I was served it before a posh dinner, and I was bowled over by it, without knowing what it was to start with. As a general rule of thumb, rosé fizz/champagne is almost invariably worse than the equivalent white, but this was a noble exception.

    Of course, Nyetimber no longer has the field to itself - there are hundred of champagne-style English sparkling wines now, and many of them are excellent.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Pulpstar said:

    Is there really time to amend anything past next February ?????
    It is past the final whistle tbh

    It's barmy. They are quarrelling over something which is entirely academic.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    kle4 said:

    Not sure why if such a utopian vision is desirable for someone it should stop at Europe, ,frankly.
    Nous sommes tous les fils et filles de Charlemagne
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,692

    Seriously, is it ever worth spending £100 on a bottle of wine - except to show off?
    One bottle of wine or 30 pints of ale. Easy decision.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    Yorkcity said:

    She àt last is taking control of her party.That is an improvement .
    High stakes but she will have the support of nearly 300 of her party in the vote. Are the 14 or so really going to sabotage their government
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,529

    Nyetimber is very good, although having said that I've been a bit disappointed with the last couple of bottles I've tried. What really did impress me though was their rosé. I was served it before a posh dinner, and I was bowled over by it, without knowing what it was to start with. As a general rule of thumb, rosé fizz/champagne is almost invariably worse than the equivalent white, but this was a noble exception.

    Of course, Nyetimber no longer has the field to itself - there are hundred of champagne-style English sparkling wines now, and many of them are excellent.

    Have you ever tried Renishaw Hall ?

    I've got a bottle I was thinking of opening on Sunday but would like to know what to expect.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,518
    Barnesian said:

    Another cliff edge next week.

    On Monday the Lords will add the Grieve amendment and send it back to the Commons. On Wednesday the Commons will vote on it. This time Grieve and co won't be fooled by last minute offers on the floor of the house or by the PM in her office behind the Speaker's chair.

    Last time the Government had a majority of 28. There were two Tory rebels (Soubry and Clarke) and five Labour rebels (Stringer, Hoey, Campbell, Field and Mann).

    I think there are about 15-20 Tory rebels including Sourby and Clarke. They need 16 for a dead heat (assuming no more labour rebels). It will be tight.

    EDIT: I forgot the new Lewisham MP. 16 for Grieve to win. I think he will.
    16 is a lot to vote against, as opposed to abstaining. My guess is that the government will edge it (Kelvin Hopkins also voted with them).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235

    Have you ever tried Renishaw Hall ?

    I've got a bottle I was thinking of opening on Sunday but would like to know what to expect.
    Didn't realise Renishaw Hall produced a wine !
    I can vouch for the quality of the gardens though - well worth a visit if you're ever in the northern midlands.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,518

    It's barmy. They are quarrelling over something which is entirely academic.
    If a deal is imminent, but not quite agreed, in February, it's likely the A50 deadline would be extended.

    If negotiations have broken down, why would it be, regardless of what the Commons wanted?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    Have you ever tried Renishaw Hall ?

    I've got a bottle I was thinking of opening on Sunday but would like to know what to expect.
    No, I haven't tried that one. Please report back!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The reporting coming from the child internment camps in America is staggering.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,529

    One bottle of wine or 30 pints of ale. Easy decision.
    You go to some pricey pubs !!!

    I'll swap your 30 pints for 100 bottles.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,529

    No, I haven't tried that one. Please report back!
    I've just put it in the fridge.

    Its from Derbyshire and I was intrigued as to what wine from so far north would be like.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    High stakes but she will have the support of nearly 300 of her party in the vote. Are the 14 or so really going to sabotage their government
    I do not believe so.Without a majority , the conservative parliamentary party , has been very solid behind the government.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    Shite, has Lewisham gone THAT badly for them :p ?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Pulpstar said:

    Nous sommes tous les fils et filles de Charlemagne
    But, nous ne sommes pas. Charlemagne’s realm never crossed the Channel.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359
    edited June 2018
    Another one for Francis' (IIRC!) golden rule of Brexit?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Alistair said:

    The reporting coming from the child internment camps in America is staggering.

    Yep. Its heartbreaking.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    edited June 2018
    Yorkcity said:

    I do not believe so.Without a majority , the conservative parliamentary party , has been very solid behind the government.
    The most solid part supporters of the Gov't have not been the Tories, but the DUP in fairness to them.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Alistair said:

    The reporting coming from the child internment camps in America is staggering.

    One wonders what the parents were thinking sending their children to a foreign country alone.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Pulpstar said:

    The most solid part supporters of the Gov't have not been the Tories, but the DUP in fairness to them.
    And the Labour leadership......
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,677
    Pulpstar said:

    You're in favour of becoming a single COUNTRY ?!
    Yes - I've lived half my life on the Continent and think the perception of differences is vastly exagerrated. There are more cultural differences between, say, London and Haslemere than between London and Vienna or between Haslemere and rural Denmark (and I've lived in all of them).

    But I think it should be gradual, over say 50 years, with more and more shared competence over time. The day of the nation state trying to influence matters on its own is fading, as even Trump will discover.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,677
    kle4 said:

    How do you judge that? Are there seats which voted Leave by the same proportion, but with greater enthusiasm?

    I just don't know how that enthusiasm is measured.
    By the lack of questions about Europe at all the hustings events, and by the low support for Referendum and UKIP at successive elections. The subject just rarely came up.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    Yes - I've lived half my life on the Continent and think the perception of differences is vastly exagerrated. There are more cultural differences between, say, London and Haslemere than between London and Vienna or between Haslemere and rural Denmark (and I've lived in all of them).

    But I think it should be gradual, over say 50 years, with more and more shared competence over time. The day of the nation state trying to influence matters on its own is fading, as even Trump will discover.
    Does Soubry want a federal Europe? Wanting to stay in the EU is one thing...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,529
    MaxPB said:

    One wonders what the parents were thinking sending their children to a foreign country alone.
    That's easy.

    Get the kids in and then join them later.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    One wonders what the parents were thinking sending their children to a foreign country alone.
    They weren't. The authorities are splitting the families up.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    They weren't. The authorities are splitting the families up.
    That's very poor, deport them sure, but don't split them up. That's very concerning.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,529

    They weren't. The authorities are splitting the families up.
    Are the kids born in the USA ?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MaxPB said:

    One wonders what the parents were thinking sending their children to a foreign country alone.
    They weren't.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    It's the giant Trump mural that gets me.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Are the kids born in the USA ?
    No but what difference does that make? The families are travelling to the USA together then getting split up.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    No but what difference does that make? The families are travelling to the USA together then getting split up.
    Yes, they should all be deported together and held together until they are.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    What channel/journo is this news report on/by ?
This discussion has been closed.