politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If only David Davis was as competent a minister as he is self

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

ydoethur said:

Alanbrooke said:

Freggles said:

Alanbrooke said:

Freggles said:

Alanbrooke said:

hmmm

I'm still not convinced Merkel wont go before May

Germany has a bigger leadership crisis than the UK

Strange how it always seems to be British right-wingers pushing this line

I read the german press

do you ?

I don't claim to be an expert
But I can see that Merkel is still Chancellor despite doomsday predictions to the contrary over and over again

currently in Germany

16% vote radical right
11 % vote radical left

that's 27%. this has never happened in the history of modern Germany and the trend is upwards.

Merkel is bit by bit destroying the fabric of the Bundesrepublik and by extension the EU

In November 1932 they got over 50% between them.

At the next election AfD and Die Linke will get between 35 and 40 points between them governing without one of them will be almost impossible.

I'm willing to offer a £10 bet at evens that between them they get below 35 points. Do you agree?

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

Tim_B said:

DavidL said:

May's government has tottered forward. Some progress has been made as shown by the initial agreement with the EU and then the agreement that allowed us to move on to the second stage. But the number of things in the too difficult pile has grown.

Whilst she has managed to hold the party tog

A different leader would have spent these months setting out a clear vision of what they wanted and invited others to follow. In fairness May tried that In January and then September 2017 in 2 speeches and in the second one in particular she gave the impression of having an objective in mind but there has not been a comprehensive effort to build a consensus around that objecive. May gives the impression of preferring room for manoeuvre to clarity.

The clear impression is that next week is crunch time. Either May leads and persuades a majority of those in the Commons to follow or she is really finished. At the moment it looks pretty 50:50 to me. It will be somewhat less if she cannot bring Davis with her.

I don't get this. It's very simple: the EU is like a country club. If you are a member you get all the benefits of membership - you can play golf on the club course, use the restaurants and bars, swim in the club pool, play tennis on the club courts and use the club spa and child care facilities.

If you leave the club you can no longer use their facilities. You can't say you want to leave but would still like to play golf every other monday. You either have the facilities or you don't.

There seems a marked reluctance to admit you can't have the benefits of membership without membership.

Am I missing something?

yes

like lots of clubs non members can pay a rate and use certain facilities

At the price, and on the conditions, set by the Club.

lol

well of course, but generally it works out cheaper since you only pay for what you want whenever and leaves you the option to use other clubs too

Being a member of the Club, has never prevented using another, and is often at a lower rate or even free on a reciprocal basis.

As a non member, you have to be a rule taker rather than a rule maker. We are off the committee...

Foxy said:

SouthamObserver said:

Well, I’m off to San Francisco tomorrow, where we’re hosting our biggest conference of the year at the Palace Hotel. We’ve sold out delegate places and made close to £1 million in sponsorship. Not bad for an event I devised on a sick bag on a flight from Vancouver to Chicago 12 years ago! Meanwhile, our Hong Kong office has doubled in size over the last year. Good, eh?

Surely not possible while in the EU?

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

Anazina said:

Davis is the least worst of the monkeys behind this shambles. He is a towering statesman compared to the clown Boris, the hapless May and the deeply sinister Rees.

just bollocks

get out of your brexit prism and look at what is happening in the wider world

nobody gives a shit about DD or Boris

Boris is undoubtedly a figure of fun across Europe. No-one’s heard of Davis.

Boris could still revise his opinion on Leave. He can even use his own words prior to the Referendum in June 2016 in which he made the case for a Leave vote as a conduit to get a better deal and if we did not get a better deal revert back to the status quo.

Article 50 should be withdrawn, no dishonour would be admonished on the proponents of Leave. Simply, the argument for Leaving and the benefits cited by the advocates of Leave were unobtainable. There would be no gloating and Boris might actually have a longer political career and a chance to revive his substantial diminished reputation.

A precedent would be Churchill who made the mistake of taking sterling off the gold standard as C of E in the 1920s, only to rejuvenate his own political fortunes and that of a nation in the Second World War.

While the arguments for Remaining and the benefits cited by the advocates of Remain have been shown to be false.

Get the idea that politicians talk big and then struggle with the details ?

And BTW Churchill's mistake was in putting sterling ON the gold standard, the ERM of its day.

Though to be fair he was persuaded by the 'Sir Humphreys' in the BoE, Treasury etc.

Alanbrooke said:

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

Tim_B said:

DavidL said:

May's government has tottered forward. Some progress has been made as shown by the initial agreement with the EU and then the agreement that allowed us to move on to the second stage. But the number of things in the too difficult pile has grown.

Whilst she has managed to hold the party tog

A different leader would have spent these months setting out a clear vision of what they wanted and invited others to follow. In fairness May tried that In January and then September 2017 in 2 speeches and in the second one in particular she gave the impression of having an objective in mind but there has not been a comprehensive effort to build a consensus around that objecive. May gives the impression of preferring room for manoeuvre to clarity.

The clear impression is that next week is crunch time. Either May leads and persuades a majority of those in the Commons to follow or she is really finished. At the moment it looks pretty 50:50 to me. It will be somewhat less if she cannot bring Davis with her.

I don't get this. It's very simple: the EU is like a country club. If you are a member you get all the benefits of membership - you can play golf on the club course, use the restaurants and bars, swim in the club pool, play tennis on the club courts and use the club spa and child care facilities.

If you leave the club you can no longer use their facilities. You can't say you want to leave but would still like to play golf every other monday. You either have the facilities or you don't.

There seems a marked reluctance to admit you can't have the benefits of membership without membership.

Am I missing something?

yes

like lots of clubs non members can pay a rate and use certain facilities

At the price, and on the conditions, set by the Club.

lol

well of course, but generally it works out cheaper since you only pay for what you want whenever and leaves you the option to use other clubs too

Being a member of the Club, has never prevented using another, and is often at a lower rate or even free on a reciprocal basis.

As a non member, you have to be a rule taker rather than a rule maker. We are off the committee...

hmmm

your sort of getting a bit desperate on the analogies now

couldn't we just cut out the pussy footing and agree all GPs are lazy bastards ?

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1004418440151683072?s=21

williamglenn said:

“Weep for Brexit: the British dash for independence has failed”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/06/weep-brexit-british-dash-independence-has-failed/

SouthamObserver said:

Well, I’m off to San Francisco tomorrow, where we’re hosting our biggest conference of the year at the Palace Hotel. We’ve sold out delegate places and made close to £1 million in sponsorship. Not bad for an event I devised on a sick bag on a flight from Vancouver to Chicago 12 years ago! Meanwhile, our Hong Kong office has doubled in size over the last year. Good, eh?

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

DavidL said:

The_Taxman said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

Anazina said:

Davis is the least worst of the monkeys behind this shambles. He is a towering statesman compared to the clown Boris, the hapless May and the deeply sinister Rees.

just bollocks

get out of your brexit prism and look at what is happening in the wider world

nobody gives a shit about DD or Boris

Boris is undoubtedly a figure of fun across Europe. No-one’s heard of Davis.

Boris could still revise his opinion on Leave. He can even use his own words prior to the Referendum in June 2016 in which he made the case for a Leave vote as a conduit to get a better deal and if we did not get a better deal revert back to the status quo.

Article 50 should be withdrawn, no dishonour would be admonished on the proponents of Leave. Simply, the argument for Leaving and the benefits cited by the advocates of Leave were unobtainable. There would be no gloating and Boris might actually have a longer political career and a chance to revive his substantial diminished reputation.

A precedent would be Churchill who made the mistake of taking sterling off the gold standard as C of E in the 1920s, only to rejuvenate his own political fortunes and that of a nation in the Second World War.

Err, Churchill put us back on the gold standard in 1925. That was a serious mistake. We came off again in 1931 and the subsequent devaluation of sterling helped the economy recover.

Yes, Sorry I some how described it the wrong way around! The later revival in Churchills political stock is a template for Boris to recant IMO.

I left a link to where John Major made his Heart of Europe speech on the previous thread. It was indeed in 1991!

Your analogies aren't working too well

Churchill putting sterling on the gold standard damaged the economy, Major putting sterling in the ERM damaged the economy.

DavidL said:

SouthamObserver said:

Well, I’m off to San Francisco tomorrow, where we’re hosting our biggest conference of the year at the Palace Hotel. We’ve sold out delegate places and made close to £1 million in sponsorship. Not bad for an event I devised on a sick bag on a flight from Vancouver to Chicago 12 years ago! Meanwhile, our Hong Kong office has doubled in size over the last year. Good, eh?

Congratulations. I’m glad to see you going where the growth is.

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1004475519914700802

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

DavidL said:

The_Taxman said:

SouthamObserver said:

Boris is undoubtedly a figure of fun across Europe. No-one’s heard of Davis.

Boris could still revise his opinion on Leave. He can even use his own words prior to the Referendum in June 2016 in which he made the case for a Leave vote as a conduit to get a better deal and if we did not get a better deal revert back to the status quo.

Article 50 should be withdrawn, no dishonour would be admonished on the proponents of Leave. Simply, the argument for Leaving and the benefits cited by the advocates of Leave were unobtainable. There would be no gloating and Boris might actually have a longer political career and a chance to revive his substantial diminished reputation.

A precedent would be Churchill who made the mistake of taking sterling off the gold standard as C of E in the 1920s, only to rejuvenate his own political fortunes and that of a nation in the Second World War.

Err, Churchill put us back on the gold standard in 1925. That was a serious mistake. We came off again in 1931 and the subsequent devaluation of sterling helped the economy recover.

Yes, Sorry I some how described it the wrong way around! The later revival in Churchills political stock is a template for Boris to recant IMO.

I left a link to where John Major made his Heart of Europe speech on the previous thread. It was indeed in 1991!

Your analogies aren't working too well

Churchill putting sterling on the gold standard damaged the economy, Major putting sterling in the ERM damaged the economy.

I know you are being pedantic about a typo because the propaganda you believe is shown to be bunkum.

I did not agree with joining the ERM at the time and certainly would not continence joining the Euro now or in the future.

The comment about John Major was in relation to another comment saying Tony Blair proposed being at the "Heart of Europe". It was in fact John Major who first used those precise words in 1991. Although many British politicians from Thatcher to Heath will have communicated the gist of those words in the past.

Foxy said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1004475519914700802

Very sad.

I bumped into her and Harold in Westminster about 1983. Literally bumped into them.

She lived very modestly, unlike most subsequent PM's spouses.

HYUFD said:

Wolfgang Schauble, Merkel's former Finance and Interior Minister and President of the Bundestag on Newsnight says the biggest crisis facing the EU is neither the problems of the Eurozone or Brexit but managing migration

Purple said:

HYUFD said:

rottenborough said:

Been out all day, but just a cursory look at pol news on twitter and all I can say is I am glad I am on with a few quid on a 2018 GE.

Which on current polls would be completely pointless, virtually replicating exactly the result last June

That's comparing the 2017 result with the 2018 polls. A comparison of polls with polls is even worse for the Tories, suggesting they'd get hammered.

Tory lead in last six polls before 2017 GE: 10, 7, 12, 1, 13, 8, mean 8.5%. Actual lead, 2.5%. Most recent polls in 2018: 3, 3, 0, 4, 0, 4, mean 2.3%. And the government looks even shiter now than it did last year. So a Lab lead of 3.7%?

I doubt it. I think if there were a GE now the Tory lead could be 5%. Labour won't have students and dementia tax. They'd be like a defence team trying to win at a retrial once the prosecution have heard all the defence evidence. That's a tough job. Everyone knows the Tories are utter crap on Brexit, but can Labour sell themselves as much better on the issue? The Tories are in with a chance of ridding themselves of the DUP by the end of the year if they boot May out and let a new leader call a GE. I don't think Gove has got enough friends. Johnson would be far too risky. It could just about be Javid who would leave the Labour leadership dizzy, but I'm still mostly on Rees-Mogg.

williamglenn said:

“Weep for Brexit: the British dash for independence has failed”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/06/weep-brexit-british-dash-independence-has-failed/

ydoethur said:

Also - on a really geeky point now - the current German Republic dates back to 23rd May 1949. The government in Bonn claimed de jure authority over all Germany, although it had de facto power only over the West of it. The DDR was wound up and the BRD claimed de facto authority over the whole country on 3rd October 1990. But that did not create a new republic.

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

As to immigration I'd rather we allowed in skilled workers from around the world than Carpathian turnip pickers / welfare claimants.

Now if you're an advocate of unrestricted immigration from the EU perhaps you could explain how Rotherham benefits from having thousands of Eastern European Roma move there.

I don't have access to the DT, so cannot really comment.

Where are you getting your thousands of Roma from in Rotherham? Any official figures or is it one of your estimates?

The farming industry has recruitment shortages for some crops, you think that is a good thing? As for your comments previously about Eastern Europeans and car washes, the truth is they may well be being paid below the minimum wage, have no recourse to tax credits or other support and pay their own way.

Just out of interest have you ever given much thought to your own heritage. If you go back far enough you will probably find ancestors from allsorts of places and in all likelihood Eastern Europe, Africa or the Middle East. I think you are very wrong and xenophobic comments are something you should be ashamed of making as you incite others to behave badly. I saw a woman spit at an Irish person who was here quite legally and minding his own business when this woman who obviously thinks like you took it on her self to start getting very agitated about immigrants, told him to "fuck off" from where he came from and throw an empty bottle at him.

viewcode said:

williamglenn said:

“Weep for Brexit: the British dash for independence has failed”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/06/weep-brexit-british-dash-independence-has-failed/

Isn't AEP a reverse indicator: anything he says will happen won't, and vice versa?

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

DavidL said:

The_Taxman said:

Article 50 should be withdrawn, no dishonour would be admonished on the proponents of Leave. Simply, the argument for Leaving and the benefits cited by the advocates of Leave were unobtainable. There would be no gloating and Boris might actually have a longer political career and a chance to revive his substantial diminished reputation.

A precedent would be Churchill who made the mistake of taking sterling off the gold standard as C of E in the 1920s, only to rejuvenate his own political fortunes and that of a nation in the Second World War.

Err, Churchill put us back on the gold standard in 1925. That was a serious mistake. We came off again in 1931 and the subsequent devaluation of sterling helped the economy recover.

Yes, Sorry I some how described it the wrong way around! The later revival in Churchills political stock is a template for Boris to recant IMO.

I left a link to where John Major made his Heart of Europe speech on the previous thread. It was indeed in 1991!

Your analogies aren't working too well

Churchill putting sterling on the gold standard damaged the economy, Major putting sterling in the ERM damaged the economy.

I know you are being pedantic about a typo because the propaganda you believe is shown to be bunkum.

I did not agree with joining the ERM at the time and certainly would not continence joining the Euro now or in the future.

The comment about John Major was in relation to another comment saying Tony Blair proposed being at the "Heart of Europe". It was in fact John Major who first used those precise words in 1991. Although many British politicians from Thatcher to Heath will have communicated the gist of those words in the past.

But what did Major putting Britain 'at the heart of Europe' achieve ?

The ERM disaster and the humiliation of Black Wednesday.

Likewise all the other British Prime Ministers who wanted to do similarly but discovered they were never going to get a place at the big table.

The only time Britain got what it wanted was in the mid 80s was when Thatcher decided to say No and keep on saying No.

If any of her successors had done likewise we would not now be leaving.

Thatcher was PM (First Lord of the Treasury) when the UK joined the ERM.

SeanT said:

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

While the arguments for Remaining and the benefits cited by the advocates of Remain have been shown to be false.

Get the idea that politicians talk big and then struggle with the details ?

And BTW Churchill's mistake was in putting sterling ON the gold standard, the ERM of its day.

Though to be fair he was persuaded by the 'Sir Humphreys' in the BoE, Treasury etc.

"While th

As to immigration I'd rather we allowed in skilled workers from around the world than Carpathianfrom having thousands of Eastern European Roma move there.

I don't have access to the DT, so cannot really comment.

Where are you getting your thousands of Roma from in Rotherham? Any official figures or is it one of your estimates?

The farming industry has recruitment shortages for some crops, you think that is a good thing? As for your comments previously about Eastern Europeans and car washes, the truth is they may well be being paid below the minimum wage, have no recourse to tax credits or other support and pay their own way.

Just out of interest have you ever given much thought to your own heritage. If you go back far enough you will probably find ancestors from allsorts of places and in all likelihood Eastern Europe, Africa or the Middle East. I think you are very wrong and xenophobic comments are something you should be ashamed of making as you incite others to behave badly. I saw a woman spit at an Irish person who was here quite legally and minding his own business when this woman who obviously thinks like you took it on her self to start getting very agitated about immigrants, told him to "fuck off" from where he came from and throw an empty bottle at him.

Do a bit of Googling you fecking lazy halfwit.

Roma in Rotherham:

"Local estimates suggest that there are around 4,100 Roma people living in Rotherham which makes them the second largest minority ethnic group."

"A significant proportion of Roma adults have no English language skills and those who can speak English are often not fluent although language skills have tended to improve over time"

"Most parts of the country have very few Roma residents whilst Rotherham has one of the highest proportions of its population from Slovak & Czech Roma communities at 1.6%. Sheffield also has a large Roma community which has links to the nearby community in Rotherham"

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/jsna/info/23/people/46/communities_of_interest/7

SeanT said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

“Weep for Brexit: the British dash for independence has failed”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/06/weep-brexit-british-dash-independence-has-failed/

It's in the Torygraph - ha ha ha!

I see the great AEP agrees with me. We have hobbled ourselves and we are headed for the EEA, on worse terms than if we'd asked for this in the beginning.

Still, I was out in a hot, humid, sunny London tonight, went to a huge drinks reception (stuffed with foreigners, American and European), walked through the City (full of gleaming new towers like The Scalpel) and I return to Camden which is chocka with happy drinkers and party-goers, just massive crowds of noisy people, all spending money as fast as they can imbibe.

Brexit is clearly being botched, yet London feels like it is booming, and is intent on booming forever.

I can't decide whether London is Paris in 1940, partying before the Fall under the Nazis, or it is New York in, say, the early 60s, arguably facing nuclear war yet simultaneously reaching for an apex of power and glamour, which will last for many years.

Alanbrooke said:

FF43 said:

Alanbrooke said:

FF43 said:

Tim_B said:

DavidL said:

May's government has tottered forward. Some progress has been made as shown by the initial agreement with the EU and then the agreement that allowed us to move on to the second stage. But the number of things in the too difficult pile has grown.

Whilst she has managed to hold the party together she has largely done so by avoiding or deferring hard decisions. I don't really criticise her for this. There are too many on both sides of the argument who seem desperate to have a fight in an empty room and would have been more than happy to go to the mattresses over something that wasn't even a possibility so far as the EU are concerned. The EU have also not helped by refusing to engage on substantive issues until very late in the process but that is the nature of the beast and one of the many reasons we are leaving in the first place.

What we are facing now, however.

A different leader would have spent these months setting out manoeuvre to clarity.

The clear impression is that next week is crunch time. Either May leads and persuades a majority of those in the Commons to follow or she is really finished. At the moment it looks pretty 50:50 to me. It will be somewhat less if she cannot bring Davis with her.

I don't get this. It's very simple: the EU is like a country clus and use the club spa and child care facilities.

If you leave the club you can no longer use their facilities. You can't say you want to leave but would still like to play golf every other monday. You either have the facilities or you don't.

There seems a marked reluctance to admit you can't have the benefits of membership without membership.

Am I missing something?

No you are not missing something. Brexit was sold with the implied promise that nothing we like would change - the infamous £350 million a week for the NHS implies that. Leave was won narrowly on that promise of no cost.

that just shows you don't understand the dynamic of the vote.

controlling immigration was the biggest issue

Controlling - in fact reducing - immigration at no cost.

currently eu immigration is going down, the economy is growing and wages are rising

or do you just ignore data ?

Mortimer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Mortimer said:

SeanT said:

https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1004484805621374976

The very easy fix is to time limit the Customs arrangement. It’s an absolute negotiation no brainer...

But the ERG won’t stand for it.

Vassal state and all that jazz.

They’ll be more likely to stand for it than a non time limited arrangement, which is what was mooted earlier.

another_richard said:

SeanT said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

“Weep for Brexit: the British dash for independence has failed”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/06/weep-brexit-british-dash-independence-has-failed/

It's in the Torygraph - ha ha ha!

I see the great AEP agrees with me. We have hobbled ourselves and we are headed for the EEA, on worse terms than if we'd asked for this in the beginning.

Still, I was out in a hot, humid, sunny London tonight, went to a huge drinks reception (stuffed with foreigners, American and European), walked through the City (full of gleaming new towers like The Scalpel) and I return to Camden which is chocka with happy drinkers and party-goers, just massive crowds of noisy people, all spending money as fast as they can imbibe.

Brexit is clearly being botched, yet London feels like it is booming, and is intent on booming forever.

I can't decide whether London is Paris in 1940, partying before the Fall under the Nazis, or it is New York in, say, the early 60s, arguably facing nuclear war yet simultaneously reaching for an apex of power and glamour, which will last for many years.

The odd thing is there seems to be a lot of new construction and consumer spending everywhere I see.

But equally there are plenty of people struggling.

SouthamObserver said:

Well, I’m off to San Francisco tomorrow, where we’re hosting our biggest conference of the year at the Palace Hotel. We’ve sold out delegate places and made close to £1 million in sponsorship. Not bad for an event I devised on a sick bag on a flight from Vancouver to Chicago 12 years ago! Meanwhile, our Hong Kong office has doubled in size over the last year. Good, eh?

another_richard said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

As to immigration I'd rather we allowed in skilled workers from around the world than Carpathianfrom having thousands of Eastern European Roma move there.

I don't have access to the DT, so cannot really comment.

Where are you getting your thousands of Roma from in Rotherham? Any official figures or is it one of your estimates?

The farming industry has recruitment shortages for some crops, you think that is a good thing? As for your comments previously about Eastern Europeans and car washes, the truth is they may well be being paid below the minimum wage, have no recourse to tax credits or other support and pay their own way.

Just out of interest have you ever given much thought to your own heritage. If you go back far enough you will probably find ancestors from allsorts of places and in all likelihood Eastern Europe, Africa or the Middle East. I think you are very wrong and xenophobic comments are something you should be ashamed of making as you incite others to behave badly. I saw a woman spit at an Irish person who was here quite legally and minding his own business when this woman who obviously thinks like you took it on her self to start getting very agitated about immigrants, told him to "fuck off" from where he came from and throw an empty bottle at him.

Do a bit of Googling you fecking lazy halfwit.

Roma in Rotherham:

"Local estimates suggest that there are around 4,100 Roma people living in Rotherham which makes them the second largest minority ethnic group."

"A significant proportion of Roma adults have no English language skills and those who can speak English are often not fluent although language skills have tended to improve over time"

"Most parts of the country have very few Roma residents whilst Rotherham has one of the highest proportions of its population from Slovak & Czech Roma communities at 1.6%. Sheffield also has a large Roma community which has links to the nearby community in Rotherham"

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/jsna/info/23/people/46/communities_of_interest/7

1.6%. Make them wear yellow badges.

I’ll bet the twat population of Primrose Hill is higher than 1.6%.

Evening Toppo

Good to see you in fine form, I assume you have recovered from the shock of discovering that it is permissible to pay agricultural workers more than minimum wage.

I had visions of you lying on Acton Common muttering "The horror! the horror!"

SeanT said:

another_richard said:

SeanT said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

“Weep for Brexit: the British dash for independence has failed”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/06/weep-brexit-british-dash-independence-has-failed/

It's in the Torygraph - ha ha ha!

I see the great AEP agrees with me. We have hobbled ourselves and we are headed for the EEA, on worse terms than if we'd asked for this in the beginning.

Still, I was out in a hot, humid, sunny London tonight, went to a huge drinks reception (stuffed with foreigners, American and European), walked through the City (full of gleaming new towers like The Scalpel) and I return to Camden which is chocka with happy drinkers and party-goers, just massive crowds of noisy people, all spending money as fast as they can imbibe.

Brexit is clearly being botched, yet London feels like it is booming, and is intent on booming forever.

I can't decide whether London is Paris in 1940, partying before the Fall under the Nazis, or it is New York in, say, the early 60s, arguably facing nuclear war yet simultaneously reaching for an apex of power and glamour, which will last for many years.

The odd thing is there seems to be a lot of new construction and consumer spending everywhere I see.

But equally there are plenty of people struggling.

Agreed. Britain (or at least the bits of it I have seen recently - which isn't much - i.e. London, Devon, Cornwall, Bristol, bits of East Anglia and the Home Counties) feels more prosperous than ever. Positively booming.

Yet the stats point to a stagnant economy and a looming recession. Hm.

TOPPING said:

YBarddCwsc said:

The farming industry has recruitment shortages for some crops, you think that is a good thing? As for your comments previously about Eastern Europeans and car washes, the truth is they may well be being paid below the minimum wage, have no recourse to tax credits or other support and pay their own way.

Just out of interest have you ever given much thought to your own heritage. If you go back far enough you will probably find ancestors from allsorts of places and in all likelihood Eastern Europe, Africa or the Middle East. I think you are very wrong and xenophobic comments are something you should be ashamed of making as you incite others to behave badly. I saw a woman spit at an Irish person who was here quite legally and minding his own business when this woman who obviously thinks like you took it on her self to start getting very agitated about immigrants, told him to "fuck off" from where he came from and throw an empty bottle at him.


Completely out of order.

Have you ever talked to any of the East Europeans who are working in the fields for your cheap fruit? I have.

They doing a shitty job for below the minimum wage, just so you can get cheap strawberries.

Of course, the benefits of the EU extend well beyond the English crops that need picking.

https://tinyurl.com/h6pyxbj

“Raped, beaten, exploited: the 21st century slavery” says the Guardian of Romanian farm workers in Italy.

Good ole EU, eh?

If they’re working for below the minimum wage then it’s up to us to enforce the law.

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

"While th

As to immigration I'd rather we allowed in skilled workers from around the world than Carpathianfrom having thousands of Eastern European Roma move there.

I don't havyou took it on her self to start getting very agitated about immigrants, told him to "fuck off" from where he came from and throw an empty bottle at him.

Do a bit of Googling you fecking lazy halfwit.

Roma in Rotherham:

"Local

"Most parts of the country have very few Roma residents whilst Rotherham has one of the highest proportions of its population from Slovak & Czech Roma communities at 1.6%. Sheffield also has a large Roma community which has links to the nearby community in Rotherham"

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/jsna/info/23/people/46/communities_of_interest/7

1.6%. Make them wear yellow badges.

I’ll bet the twat population of Primrose Hill is higher than 1.6%.

The quote was "thousands of Roma in Rotherham" which was disputed. Now we know it is true. There are indeed thousands of Roma in Rotherham. So that argument is over.

Given what I have personally seen, and experienced from, Roma communities in Eastern Europe (whence these migrants hail) I imagine these immigrants must have an intense and quite unpleasant impact on the small northern suburbs where they settle en masse.

Of course, you are insulated from all this, being rich and all. How nice for you. So you can scoff and chortle. Well done, old boy, well done. But if you lived in a particular Sheffield suburb, abruptly "colonised" by these migrants (with no legal ability to stop them coming), don't you think you might feel differently? Are you so incapable of empathy you can't do that?

There is no doubt that Roma in Eastern Europe suffer serious discrimination and dislike. There is also no doubt they act in anti-social ways which engenders this dislike and discrimination.

1.6% = colonised.

You should take up writing fiction for a living.

But its not 1.6% in the areas they migrate to is it.

And inevitably those areas are already among the most deprived and that in a town with plenty of socioeconomic problems as it is.

It's 1.6% in Rotherham, duckie.

Philip_Thompson said:

TOPPING said:

YBarddCwsc said:

The farming industry has recruitment shortages for some crops, you think that is a good thing? As for your comments previously about Eastern Europeans and car washes, the truth is they may well be being paid below the minimum wage, have no recourse to tax credits or other support and pay their own way.

Just out of interest have you ever given much thought to your own heritage. If you go back far enough you will probably find ancestors from allsorts of places and in all likelihood Eastern Europe, Africa or the Middle East. I think you are very wrong and xenophobic comments are something you should be ashamed of making as you incite others to behave badly. I saw a woman spit at an Irish person who was here quite legally and minding his own business when this woman who obviously thinks like you took it on her self to start getting very agitated about immigrants, told him to "fuck off" from where he came from and throw an empty bottle at him.


Completely out of order.

Have you ever talked to any of the East Europeans who are working in the fields for your cheap fruit? I have.

They doing a shitty job for below the minimum wage, just so you can get cheap strawberries.

Of course, the benefits of the EU extend well beyond the English crops that need picking.

https://tinyurl.com/h6pyxbj

“Raped, beaten, exploited: the 21st century slavery” says the Guardian of Romanian farm workers in Italy.

Good ole EU, eh?

If they’re working for below the minimum wage then it’s up to us to enforce the law.

Though you this morning without blinking shared a link about a farmer bemoaning that he was having to pay more than minimum wage and even having to provide WiFi in the living quarters. Clearly longing for the days he could skip a WiFi bill and get away with minimum wage or less - and you viewed that as a bad thing.

Philip_Thompson said:

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

"While th

As to immigration I'd rather we allowed in skilled workers from around the world than Carpathianfrom having thousands of Eastern European Roma move there.

I don't havyou took it on her self to start getting very agitated about immigrants, told him to "fuck off" from where he came from and throw an empty bottle at him.

Do a bit of Googling you fecking lazy halfwit.

Roma in Rotherham:

"Local

"Most parts of the country have very few Roma residents whilst Rotherham has one of the highest proportions of its population from Slovak & Czech Roma communities at 1.6%. Sheffield also has a large Roma community which has links to the nearby community in Rotherham"

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/jsna/info/23/people/46/communities_of_interest/7

1.6%. Make them wear yellow badges.

I’ll bet the twat population of Primrose Hill is higher than 1.6%.

The quote was "thousands of Roma in Rotherham" which was disputed. Now we know it is true. There are indeed thousands of Roma in Rotherham. So that argument is over.

Given what I have personally seen, and experienced from, Roma communities in Eastern Europe (whence these migrants hail) I imagine these immigrants must have an intense and quite unpleasant impact on the small northern suburbs where they settle en masse.

Of course, you are insulated from all this, being rich and all. How nice for you. So you can scoff and chortle. Well done, old boy, well done. But if you lived in a particular Sheffield suburb, abruptly "colonised" by these migrants (with no legal ability to stop them coming), don't you think you might feel differently? Are you so incapable of empathy you can't do that?

There is no doubt that Roma in Eastern Europe suffer serious discrimination and dislike. There is also no doubt they act in anti-social ways which engenders this dislike and discrimination.

1.6% = colonised.

You should take up writing fiction for a living.

But its not 1.6% in the areas they migrate to is it.

And inevitably those areas are already among the most deprived and that in a town with plenty of socioeconomic problems as it is.

It's 1.6% in Rotherham, duckie.

Overall yes. Rotherham itself will have different areas with different figures.

TOPPING said:

Philip_Thompson said:

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

"While th

As to immigration I'd rather we allowed in skilled workers from around the world than Carpathianfrom having thousands of Eastern European Roma move there.

I don't havyou took it on her self to start getting very agitated about immigrants, told him to "fuck off" from where he came from and throw an empty bottle at him.

Do a bit of Googling you fecking lazy halfwit.

Roma in Rotherham:

"Local

"Most parts of the country have very few Roma residents whilst Rotherham has one of the highest proportions of its population from Slovak & Czech Roma communities at 1.6%. Sheffield also has a large Roma community which has links to the nearby community in Rotherham"

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/jsna/info/23/people/46/communities_of_interest/7

1.6%. Make them wear yellow badges.

I’ll bet the twat population of Primrose Hill is higher than 1.6%.

The quote was "thousands of Roma in Rotherham" which was disputed. Now we know it is true. There are indeed thousands of Roma in Rotherham. So that argument is over.

Given what I have personally seen, and experienced from, Roma communities in Eastern Europe (whence these migrants hail) I imagine these immigrants must have an intense and quite unpleasant impact on the small northern suburbs where they settle en masse.

Of course, you are insulated from all this, being rich and all. How nice for you. So you can scoff and chortle. Well done, old boy, well done. But if you lived in a particular Sheffield suburb, abruptly "colonised" by these migrants (with no legal ability to stop them coming), don't you think you might feel differently? Are you so incapable of empathy you can't do that?

There is no doubt that Roma in Eastern Europe suffer serious discrimination and dislike. There is also no doubt they act in anti-social ways which engenders this dislike and discrimination.

1.6% = colonised.

You should take up writing fiction for a living.

But its not 1.6% in the areas they migrate to is it.

And inevitably those areas are already among the most deprived and that in a town with plenty of socioeconomic problems as it is.

It's 1.6% in Rotherham, duckie.

Overall yes. Rotherham itself will have different areas with different figures.

Indeed it will. Do you know the Roma dispersion in Rotherham?

another_richard said:

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

Do a bit of Googling you fecking lazy halfwit.

Roma in Rotherham:

"Local estimates suggest that there are around 4,100 Roma people living in Rotherham which makes them the second largest minority ethnic group."

"A significant proportion of Roma adults have no English language skills and those who can speak English are often not fluent although language skills have tended to improve over time"

"Most parts of the country have very few Roma residents whilst Rotherham has one of the highest proportions of its population from Slovak & Czech Roma communities at 1.6%. Sheffield also has a large Roma community which has links to the nearby community in Rotherham"

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/jsna/info/23/people/46/communities_of_interest/7

1.6%. Make them wear yellow badges.

I’ll bet the twat population of Primrose Hill is higher than 1.6%.

Evening Toppo

Good to see you in fine form, I assume you have recovered from the shock of discovering that it is permissible to pay agricultural workers more than minimum wage.

I had visions of you lying on Acton Common muttering "The horror! the horror!"

Hold on, either they’re being paid more than the minimum wage or less than it. Will you Brexitoloons make your minds up please.

Even ArchIdiot Welby has realised that hand carwashes are riddled with exploited workers:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-derbyshire-44337746/churchgoers-help-stop-modern-slavery-at-car-washes

And rising wages are a good thing when that are matched by rising productivity - its the method by which the country has prospered in previous centuries.

Tykejohnno said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

While the arguments for Remaining and the benefits cited by the advocates of Remain have been shown to be false.

Get the idea that politicians talk big and then struggle with the details ?

And BTW Churchill's mistake was in putting sterling ON the gold standard, the ERM of its day.

Though to be fair he was persuaded by the 'Sir Humphreys' in the BoE, Treasury etc.

"While th

As to immigration I'd rather we allowed in skilled workers from around the world than Carpathianfrom having thousands of Eastern European Roma move there.

I don't havyou took it on her self to start getting very agitated about immigrants, told him to "fuck off" from where he came from and throw an empty bottle at him.

Do a bit of Goog/info/23/people/46/communities_of_interest/7

1.6%. Make them wear yellow badges.

I’ll bet the twat population of Primrose Hill is higher than 1.6%.

The quote was "thousands of Roma in Rotherham" which was disputed. Now we know it is true. There t feel differently? Are you so incapable of empathy you can't do that?

There is no doubt that Roma in Eastern Europe suffer serious discrimination and dislike. There is also no doubt they act in anti-social ways which engenders this dislike and discrimination.

1.6% = colonised.

You should take up writing fiction for a living.

4000 migrants would definitely feel like a colonisation if it happened in a very small distinct London suburb, e.g. Primrose Hill. And that is what is happening in some small, working class suburbs in the north.

But you don't give a fuck about the white working class, do you? They are - ugh! - ignorant scum who shouldn't even have the vote. You are quite perfectly loathsome, a sneering little dwarf of disdain. Well done - again! - for proving this so adeptly.

Population of Rotherham is 257,000. Do the maths you uber-dolt.

Why don't you pop up to the poor area's and see for yourself what sort of immigration these area's are attracting from the EU ? You will be shocked if you go by the area I live.

SeanT said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

TOPPING said:

SeanT said:

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

another_richard said:

The_Taxman said:

While the arguments for Remaining and the benefits cited by the advocates of Remain have been shown to be false.

Get the idea that politicians talk big and then struggle with the details ?

And BTW Churchill's mistake was in putting sterling ON the gold standard, the ERM of its day.

Though to be fair he was persuaded by the 'Sir Humphreys' in the BoE, Treasury etc.

"While th

As to immigration I'd rather we allowed in skilled workers from around the world than Carpathianfrom having thousands of Eastern European Roma move there.

I don't havyou took it on her self to start getting very agitated about immigrants, told him to "fuck off" from where he came from and throw an empty bottle at him.

Do a bit of Goog/info/23/people/46/communities_of_interest/7

1.6%. Make them wear yellow badges.

I’ll bet the twat population of Primrose Hill is higher than 1.6%.

The quote was "thousands of Roma in Rotherham" which was disputed. Now we know it is true. There t feel differently? Are you so incapable of empathy you can't do that?

There is no doubt that Roma in Eastern Europe suffer serious discrimination and dislike. There is also no doubt they act in anti-social ways which engenders this dislike and discrimination.

1.6% = colonised.

You should take up writing fiction for a living.

4000 mig proving this so adeptly.

Population of Rotherham is 257,000. Do the maths you uber-dolt.

Topping, we need to raise the tone of debate, and in a spirit of goodwill I calmly suggest you and I take the lead, and move away from this name calling.

To that end, I suggest we simply agree that you are an innumerate, drooling, snobbish, urinous old c*nt, who is incapable of understanding that migration can be unhappily concentrated in tiny areas (as humans always crowd with their own) and that even if you did comprehend this, you rancid, weeping sow's vulva, you would refuse to acknowledge it as it might unhappily impact your bizarrely deluded world-view of yourself as a man of intelligence and fellow-feeling, when you are, in fact, the opposite. That is to say: a selfish disgusting moral anus.

Deal?

Tykejohnno said:

Lucky we don't have the American gun laws here.

It might have tempted me with the god awful eastern European singing behind my back fence tonight which went on for hours.

Philip_Thompson said:

TOPPING said:

Sean said Rotherham was being colonised.

And?

A tiny percentage of British emigres successfully colonised many nations. Centuries later the native majorities got their independence. I fail to see how a percentage is relevant to the discussion unless you think it takes a majority to colonise an area - in which case why aren't all former British colonies majority Anglo Saxon?

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

TOPPING said:

1.6%. Make them wear yellow badges.

I’ll bet the twat population of Primrose Hill is higher than 1.6%.

Evening Toppo

Good to see you in fine form, I assume you have recovered from the shock of discovering that it is permissible to pay agricultural workers more than minimum wage.

I had visions of you lying on Acton Common muttering "The horror! the horror!"

Hold on, either they’re being paid more than the minimum wage or less than it. Will you Brexitoloons make your minds up please.

Even ArchIdiot Welby has realised that hand carwashes are riddled with exploited workers:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-derbyshire-44337746/churchgoers-help-stop-modern-slavery-at-car-washes

And rising wages are a good thing when that are matched by rising productivity - its the method by which the country has prospered in previous centuries.

If it's illegal we should stop it.

another_richard said:

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

TOPPING said:

1.6%. Make them wear yellow badges.

I’ll bet the twat population of Primrose Hill is higher than 1.6%.

Evening Toppo

Good to see you in fine form, I assume you have recovered from the shock of discovering that it is permissible to pay agricultural workers more than minimum wage.

I had visions of you lying on Acton Common muttering "The horror! the horror!"

Hold on, either they’re being paid more than the minimum wage or less than it. Will you Brexitoloons make your minds up please.

Even ArchIdiot Welby has realised that hand carwashes are riddled with exploited workers:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-derbyshire-44337746/churchgoers-help-stop-modern-slavery-at-car-washes

And rising wages are a good thing when that are matched by rising productivity - its the method by which the country has prospered in previous centuries.

If it's illegal we should stop it.

But we're not:

' Reported cases of slavery have increased 35% year on year, with the UK being one of the biggest destinations in Europe for trafficking of workers for labour exploitation. Debt bondage – where migrants often become indebted to recruitment agencies for travel or illegal work-finding fees – is common. Bogus self-employment contracts are also regularly used to disguise abuse, with intelligence suggesting this is a growing problem in sectors such as cleaning, construction and flower picking. Zero-hours contracts linked to abuses are highlighted in agriculture, construction, food packing and security services, despite many workers effectively being permanent staff.

The report also finds that organised crime groups are active in the labour market in many sectors. Most intelligence about victims of labour exploitation in the last 12 months has related to Romanian men in their 20s and 30s, while Romanian and British nationals are the most prevalent offender nationalities across all forms of modern slavery. Albanian organised crime is a significant factor in abuse in car washes. '

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/08/slaves-working-in-uk-construction-and-car-washes-report-finds

SouthamObserver said:

Well, I’m off to San Francisco tomorrow, where we’re hosting our biggest conference of the year at the Palace Hotel. We’ve sold out delegate places and made close to £1 million in sponsorship. Not bad for an event I devised on a sick bag on a flight from Vancouver to Chicago 12 years ago! Meanwhile, our Hong Kong office has doubled in size over the last year. Good, eh?

GIN1138 said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1004418440151683072?s=21

DD needs to resign if he can't agree with the government's decision.