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SystemSystem Posts: 12,683
edited June 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Forget the Lewisham East by election this will be the most important political event of June 14th

June 14th is set to be High Noon for Mrs May and the type of Brexit we get. This could be the most important Commons vote since the Norway Debate of 1940. Story by @ShippersUnbound. https://t.co/9w0nsWPE5x pic.twitter.com/nIvY0LBi92

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,274
    edited June 2018
    Surely not?

    Edit - on topic, I think the likeliest outcome is that people will call for all three outcomes, possibly at the same time (and maybe a certain Labour frontbencher will list them by saying 'there are ten possible outcomes here'). However, May is nothing if not very stubborn. I think she will simply do a Juncker - set her face and totally ignore the vote.

    BTW I don't think I ever did get a reply to the question about Gingers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,555
    edited June 2018
    FPT,
    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,154
    ydoethur said:

    Surely not?

    First indeed, Shirley.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,274
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surely not?

    First indeed, Shirley.

    I am serious (and I secured the first before actually adding the comment, as you may have observed). :smiley:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    edited June 2018
    ydoethur said:

    Surely not?

    Edit - on topic, I think the likeliest outcome is that people will call for all three outcomes, possibly at the same time (and maybe a certain Labour frontbencher will list them by saying 'there are ten possible outcomes here'). However, May is nothing if not very stubborn. I think she will simply do a Juncker - set her face and totally ignore the vote.

    BTW I don't think I ever did get a reply to the question about Gingers.

    I have a well known weakness for redheads.

    My first love was a redhead, I married a redhead.

    Although to be fair, blondes, brunettes, or redheads, I like any kind of head when it comes to pretty women, ahem.

    [That's enough - Innuendo Editor]
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,272
    edited June 2018
    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    Voting against your own party's manifesto does seem like a deselection issue.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,154
    With that birthday gift, Pakistan have contrived to give a wicket to every English bowler.
    Maybe time for Root to bring himself on for a quick spell... ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,154
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surely not?

    Edit - on topic, I think the likeliest outcome is that people will call for all three outcomes, possibly at the same time (and maybe a certain Labour frontbencher will list them by saying 'there are ten possible outcomes here'). However, May is nothing if not very stubborn. I think she will simply do a Juncker - set her face and totally ignore the vote.

    BTW I don't think I ever did get a reply to the question about Gingers.

    I have a well known weakness for redheads.

    My first love was a redhead, I married a redhead....
    Ah, that explains the matching shoes.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,350
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,274
    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surely not?

    Edit - on topic, I think the likeliest outcome is that people will call for all three outcomes, possibly at the same time (and maybe a certain Labour frontbencher will list them by saying 'there are ten possible outcomes here'). However, May is nothing if not very stubborn. I think she will simply do a Juncker - set her face and totally ignore the vote.

    BTW I don't think I ever did get a reply to the question about Gingers.

    I have a well known weakness for redheads.

    My first love was a redhead, I married a redhead....
    Ah, that explains the matching shoes.

    That seems something of a non-sequitur. I have no particular weakness for redheads (phrased carefully!) but I assure you I wear matching shoes every day of the week.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,350
    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    I think she will lose the amendment to remove the 29 March 2019 as a deadline - which I think will be a relief to her and we'll take advantage of it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,274
    Incidentally anyone with tickets for Headingley tomorrow looks likely to be disappointed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,274
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    I think she will lose the amendment to remove the 29 March 2019 as a deadline - which I think will be a relief to her and we'll take advantage of it.
    Unless the EU agree to it such a clause is mere posturing. And as we have seen, the EU will not agree to it. We might as well legislate for multilateral nuclear disarmament.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,350
    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    I think she will lose the amendment to remove the 29 March 2019 as a deadline - which I think will be a relief to her and we'll take advantage of it.
    Unless the EU agree to it such a clause is mere posturing. And as we have seen, the EU will not agree to it. We might as well legislate for multilateral nuclear disarmament.
    We haven't seen that. I think the EU will be open to extending A50 until 23 May2019, no problem, if it helps get a sensible agreement. Beyond 23 May is more difficult because of the Euro elections.
  • PurplePurple Posts: 150
    edited June 2018
    How would Tory and Kipper PBers rank the following three issues by importance, disregarding relative likelihoods and any interdependencies?

    • a) Full Brexit (out of SM, CU, FOM)

    • b) Peace in Ireland (no return to violent Troubles in NI)

    • c) Uninterrupted food supplies (no food shortages affecting more than 100,000 people)

    So I am asking for example would you prefer full Brexit with violence in NI or (for example) BINO with peace in NI, and whether full Brexit would be "worth" (for example) supermarket shelves going bare of food for a fortnight in a few remote areas of Britain, causing (for example) less than 10 deaths of people who were already weakened by health problems.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,272
    edited June 2018
    Visitors to the World Meeting of Families later this summer in Dublin organised by the Catholic Church will be pleased to know the Pope has granted them plenary indulgences absolving them of punishment for previous sins and speeding deceased relatives through purgatory

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44294906

    Meanwhile Ian Paisley Jnr says he has received a note of thanks from a Catholic priest for the DUP's stance protecting the unborn

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ianpaisleymp/status/1003213243521912833?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44347570
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,894
    Mr. T, although I'm definitely not the best chap here to offer investment advice, one thing worth considering is mint condition coins. Prices only ever go up as supply declines over time, and it seems difficult to imagine there'll ever stop being a market.

    Won't soar in value, of course, but still worth consideration.

    I had a quick look at the Royal Mint site a few weeks ago. Was mildly amused to find the (then) top-priced coin was the Golden Bull of Clarence. Which was £49,995. Gold coin that weighs a kilo.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,274
    Barnesian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    I think she will lose the amendment to remove the 29 March 2019 as a deadline - which I think will be a relief to her and we'll take advantage of it.
    Unless the EU agree to it such a clause is mere posturing. And as we have seen, the EU will not agree to it. We might as well legislate for multilateral nuclear disarmament.
    We haven't seen that. I think the EU will be open to extending A50 until 23 May2019, no problem, if it helps get a sensible agreement. Beyond 23 May is more difficult because of the Euro elections.
    We can ask for it, but 27 others have to agree and Barnier has to put it to them. Since he has so far reflexively said 'no' to pretty much everything I doubt if he would go with that.

    Therefore, as I've said, it's posturing. It's the EU's deadline, not ours. It doesn't belong in an act of Parliament because it cannot be enforced by Parliament.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    Purple said:

    How would Tory and Kipper PBers rank the following three issues by importance, disregarding relative likelihoods and any interdependencies?

    • a) Full Brexit (out of SM, CU, FOM)

    • b) Peace in Ireland (no return to violent Troubles in NI)

    • c) Uninterrupted food supplies (no food shortages affecting more than 100,000 people)

    So I am asking for example would you prefer full Brexit with violence in NI or (for example) BINO with peace in NI, and whether full Brexit would be "worth" (for example) supermarket shelves going bare of food for a fortnight in a few remote areas of Britain, causing (for example) less than 10 deaths of people who were already weakened by health problems.

    I think that Brexit is well worth famine and ethnic cleansing.
  • PurplePurple Posts: 150
    If successful, the Lords' amendment (no.1) will require the government to tell both houses of parliament, by 31 October (after the party conference) what steps it has taken to ensure Britain continues to participate in "a" CU with the EU. (Source.)

    I won't be surprised if later this month rather than facing a NC challenge Theresa May leaves office quietly.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Purple said:

    If successful, the Lords' amendment (no.1) will require the government to tell both houses of parliament, by 31 October (after the party conference) what steps it has taken to ensure Britain continues to participate in "a" CU with the EU. (Source.)

    I won't be surprised if later this month rather than facing a NC challenge Theresa May leaves office quietly.

    Why would anyone want to NC May just to negotiate a CU with the EU? I don't think that's an attractive prospect for any would-be leader.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,894
    Mr. Purple, I've since covered it but did have a small bet on her leaving office in the first six months of the year.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,350
    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    I think she will lose the amendment to remove the 29 March 2019 as a deadline - which I think will be a relief to her and we'll take advantage of it.
    Unless the EU agree to it such a clause is mere posturing. And as we have seen, the EU will not agree to it. We might as well legislate for multilateral nuclear disarmament.
    We haven't seen that. I think the EU will be open to extending A50 until 23 May2019, no problem, if it helps get a sensible agreement. Beyond 23 May is more difficult because of the Euro elections.
    We can ask for it, but 27 others have to agree and Barnier has to put it to them. Since he has so far reflexively said 'no' to pretty much everything I doubt if he would go with that.

    Therefore, as I've said, it's posturing. It's the EU's deadline, not ours. It doesn't belong in an act of Parliament because it cannot be enforced by Parliament.
    It can't be enforced by Parliament but the unamended bill doesn't allow us to even ask! It hobbles us in our negotiation and it is only there to appease the headbangers. That why the amended bill will pass.

    I think it is in the EU interest as well as ours that we don't crash out so I think there will be no problem in getting a short extension if required. Barnier will have consulted with the 27 and so will be prepared.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,350
    Purple said:

    If successful, the Lords' amendment (no.1) will require the government to tell both houses of parliament, by 31 October (after the party conference) what steps it has taken to ensure Britain continues to participate in "a" CU with the EU. (Source.)

    I won't be surprised if later this month rather than facing a NC challenge Theresa May leaves office quietly.

    Nah
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,894
    This might be interesting, although I recall Easton's last wibble about England (on devolution). He visited Cornwall and the options he put were a Cornish political body, a Cornish-Devonian one, and a south-western one. He never even mentioned the concept of an English Parliament.

    https://twitter.com/BBCMarkEaston/status/1003289035119517696
  • PurplePurple Posts: 150
    Barnesian said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/
    Do any of the three sites mentioned make it as easy to sell BTC as to buy it?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    I think she will lose the amendment to remove the 29 March 2019 as a deadline - which I think will be a relief to her and we'll take advantage of it.
    Yes I agree, she has moved on from running in corn fields , to a slow walk in very long grass.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    Was Maastricht in the Tory manifesto?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    tlg86 said:

    Was Maastricht in the Tory manifesto?

    It was indeed.

    http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml

    The Conservatives have been the party of Britain in Europe for 30 years. We have argued when argument was necessary; but we have not wavered nor changed our views. We have ensured that Britain is at the heart of Europe; a strong and respected partner.

    The Maastricht Treaty was a success both for Britain and for the rest of Europe. British proposals helped to shape the key provisions of the Treaty including those strengthening the enforcement of Community law defence, subsidiarity and law and order.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    tlg86 said:

    Was Maastricht in the Tory manifesto?

    Yes.

    http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml#resp
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,894
    Mr. T, aye, there have been several news segments on Manchester/London, most of which magically manage to commemorate acts of Islamic (or Islamist, as you like) terrorism without mentioning who did it or why.

    Can't recall that level of reticence around Irish/IRA terrorism (although I can only remember the tail end of that sort of thing).

    Government's currently consulting on 'Islamophobia', a spectacularly unhelpful term that manages to conflate anti-Muslim discrimination (wrong) with criticism of Islam (entirely acceptable). Nice to see, in a clip, Javid question the moral legitimacy of the MCB, though. Nevertheless, my suspicion is the government definition of 'Islamophobia' will end up being alarmingly broad. But we'll see. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. And maybe I'll have some winning tips for the Canadian Grand Prix.
  • PurplePurple Posts: 150
    williamglenn said:

    Purple said:

    If successful, the Lords' amendment (no.1) will require the government to tell both houses of parliament, by 31 October (after the party conference) what steps it has taken to ensure Britain continues to participate in "a" CU with the EU. (Source.)

    I won't be surprised if later this month rather than facing a NC challenge Theresa May leaves office quietly.

    Why would anyone want to NC May just to negotiate a CU with the EU? I don't think that's an attractive prospect for any would-be leader.
    If she loses the vote and responds by saying she will respect the will of parliament, party hardnuts couldn't say "the hell with the will of parliament" but they could find fault with the wording of her response (fighting over the semantics of "steps" or a qualifying adjective), or they could say that the Commons has in effect, by obstructing ministers from honouring their manifesto commitments, expressed NC in the government. They could say that in such circumstances it would be absurd for a PM to remain in office without calling a GE and also absurd for the current PM to fight the GE as party leader. We are going to find out how much Tories love their party and I suspect the answer will be "a lot". How much further can the pendulum swing in the direction of Tory division and weak incompetent government before it swings back again or the party and the country both break?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,350
    Purple said:

    Barnesian said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/
    Do any of the three sites mentioned make it as easy to sell BTC as to buy it?
    Revolut say " you can buy, sell, exchange and transfer cryptocurrencies within the Revolut platform". "Crptocurrencies can be exchanged automatically to any supported fiat currency".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,911
    edited June 2018
    I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Was Maastricht in the Tory manifesto?

    Yes.

    http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml#resp
    Had it not been signed by April 1992?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,894
    Mr. Sandpit, reminds me of when Newsnight ran an absolutely appalling segment (95% pro-censorship) regarding the Jesus and Mo cartoons. The line taken by those terribly offended was they approved of free speech but 'with respect'.

    I imagine the same perspective is taken by the cult. "Of course we approve of free speech. We don't want to tell people what jokes to make. All we're asking for is a little respect for Jeremy, May His Days Be Everlasting."
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited June 2018
    The most important commons vote since the Norway debate of May 1940? Serious hyperbole!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Was Maastricht in the Tory manifesto?

    Yes.

    http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml#resp
    Had it not been signed by April 1992?
    Signed but not ratified.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,631
    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Was Maastricht in the Tory manifesto?

    Yes.

    http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml#resp
    Had it not been signed by April 1992?
    The rebellion took place in the HoC after the 1992 election...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Rebels
  • initforthemoneyinitforthemoney Posts: 736
    FPT
    rkrkrk said:



    My totally unscientific version:
    Working class - none of the below.
    Middle class - has a cleaner/can easily afford a cleaner.
    Upper class - doesn't need to/didn't need to work for a living.

    So Aldi is middle class and all retirees are upper class?
  • initforthemoneyinitforthemoney Posts: 736
    viewcode said:



    lower-working class: will never buy a house (insufficient funds)
    upper-working-class: will buy a house via a mortgage but saves up for own deposit
    lower-middle-class: will buy a house via a mortgage but parents gift them the deposit
    upper-middle-class: parents buy the house for them
    upper-class: will never buy a house (will inherit one from dead relative)

    how about cash buyer of flat with gambling winnings after a couple of decades of renting?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,182
    Elliot said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    Voting against your own party's manifesto does seem like a deselection issue.
    Ironicreally. PB Toties get very juiced up at the hint of a Corbynist campaign to deselect (despite their rarity) while threatening their own with the same.

    Purge the Wrekers and Kulaks, the peoples revolution must be protected!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    edited June 2018
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Was Maastricht in the Tory manifesto?

    Yes.

    http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml#resp
    Had it not been signed by April 1992?
    Signed but not ratified.
    I see, but I'm guessing Maastricht wasn't in the 1987 Tory manifesto.

    Anyway, the mistake your lot made was not getting all of these treaties ratified by referenda.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,631
    edited June 2018
    initforthemoney said:

    FPT

    rkrkrk said:



    My totally unscientific version:
    Working class - none of the below.
    Middle class - has a cleaner/can easily afford a cleaner.
    Upper class - doesn't need to/didn't need to work for a living.

    So Aldi is middle class and all retirees are upper class?
    You have to treat the second '/' as an AND operator. Those retirees (vast majority) who did need to work and are therefore not UC. (Better as "Upper class - has never needed to work for a living"?)

    Confusingly the first '/' has to be an OR operator. Better just to drop the first clause (i.e. "Middle class - can easily afford a cleaner").:wink:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,631
    Benpointer said:

    initforthemoney said:

    FPT

    rkrkrk said:



    My totally unscientific version:
    Working class - none of the below.
    Middle class - has a cleaner/can easily afford a cleaner.
    Upper class - doesn't need to/didn't need to work for a living.

    So Aldi is middle class and all retirees are upper class?
    You have to treat the second '/' as an AND operator. Those retirees (vast majority) who did need to work and are therefore not UC. (Better as "Upper class - has never needed to work for a living"?)

    Confusingly the first '/' has to be an OR operator. Better just to drop the first clause (i.e. "Middle class - can easily afford a cleaner").:wink:
    EDIT: We may need a flowchart!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,709
    initforthemoney said:

    FPT

    rkrkrk said:



    My totally unscientific version:
    Working class - none of the below.
    Middle class - has a cleaner/can easily afford a cleaner.
    Upper class - doesn't need to/didn't need to work for a living.

    So Aldi is middle class and all retirees are upper class?
    I assume most retirees needed to work for a living, hence why they are now retired.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Sandpit said:

    I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’.

    They are outraged that his hat has been photoshopped
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,555
    edited June 2018
    Sandpit said:

    I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’.
    m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI

    thou shalt not take lord's the Messiah's name vain...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,631
    Sandpit said:

    I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI

    They've presumably not heard of the Streisand Effect! :lol:
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,709
    Barnesian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    I think she will lose the amendment to remove the 29 March 2019 as a deadline - which I think will be a relief to her and we'll take advantage of it.
    Unless the EU agree to it such a clause is mere posturing. And as we have seen, the EU will not agree to it. We might as well legislate for multilateral nuclear disarmament.
    We haven't seen that. I think the EU will be open to extending A50 until 23 May2019, no problem, if it helps get a sensible agreement. Beyond 23 May is more difficult because of the Euro elections.
    A whole two months? They'll probably spend longer negotiating the extension...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,631
    initforthemoney said:

    viewcode said:



    lower-working class: will never buy a house (insufficient funds)
    upper-working-class: will buy a house via a mortgage but saves up for own deposit
    lower-middle-class: will buy a house via a mortgage but parents gift them the deposit
    upper-middle-class: parents buy the house for them
    upper-class: will never buy a house (will inherit one from dead relative)

    how about cash buyer of flat with gambling winnings after a couple of decades of renting?
    That shows no class at all. :smile:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,555
    Scott_P said:

    Sandpit said:

    I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’.

    They are outraged that his hat has been photoshopped
    Some of the cult even managed to start some conspiracy theory about David Baddiel (a Jew) having written it for her...

    “Been told, hilariously, that Corbynistas like @jigsawman2014 have assumed that I wrote Tracey Ullman’s JC sketch on her show: a brilliant example of how they truly eschew the idea of a Jewish conspiracy,” he wrote.

    Baddiel later added, “This is the literally the weirdest conspiracy theory I’ve ever seen. I’ve now seen it stated as fact that I wrote that sketch. Maybe I should ask for royalties. Or will that confirm the stereotype for the antisemites?”

    https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Culture/Tracey-Ullmans-BBC-skit-on-Corbyn-draws-ire-conspiracy-theories-559035
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,555
    https://twitter.com/NickCohen4/status/1003024855950942209
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,555
    At least the BBC front page guy's twitter might have calmed down a bit now the mob are after David Baddiel instead.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Benpointer said:

    Sandpit said:

    I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI

    They've presumably not heard of the Streisand Effect! :lol:
    They think the Streisand Effect is another Jewish conspiracy.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/AgnesCPoirier/status/1003308753884770305
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,894
    Mr. P, so that's something like "Italy destroys itself - and takes Europe with it"

    What's 'reisst'? I know my translation's not quite right, as nehmen is 'to take'.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,977
    Barnesian said:

    Purple said:

    Barnesian said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/
    Do any of the three sites mentioned make it as easy to sell BTC as to buy it?
    Revolut say " you can buy, sell, exchange and transfer cryptocurrencies within the Revolut platform". "Crptocurrencies can be exchanged automatically to any supported fiat currency".
    Yup. As far as I am aware Revolut only allow you to hold crypto "within the revolut platform" which means you don't hold it at all and cannot transfer it to an external wallet. Avoid.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Sandpit said:

    I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI

    It made me laugh.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,384
    Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.

    Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,425
    Elliot said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    Voting against your own party's manifesto does seem like a deselection issue.
    I presume that most of the rebels - on the Conservative side - will either be in strongly Remain seats (like Justine Greening) or will be retiring at the next election anyway (Kenneth Clarke).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,425
    Sean_F said:

    Purple said:

    How would Tory and Kipper PBers rank the following three issues by importance, disregarding relative likelihoods and any interdependencies?

    • a) Full Brexit (out of SM, CU, FOM)

    • b) Peace in Ireland (no return to violent Troubles in NI)

    • c) Uninterrupted food supplies (no food shortages affecting more than 100,000 people)

    So I am asking for example would you prefer full Brexit with violence in NI or (for example) BINO with peace in NI, and whether full Brexit would be "worth" (for example) supermarket shelves going bare of food for a fortnight in a few remote areas of Britain, causing (for example) less than 10 deaths of people who were already weakened by health problems.

    I think that Brexit is well worth famine and ethnic cleansing.
    Doesn't that depend on who is starving or being ethnically cleansed?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,911
    DavidL said:

    Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.

    Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.

    Could be worse, you could have booked train tickets and an hotel in Leeds to go and watch the cricket tomorrow. ;)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,911
    williamglenn said:

    Benpointer said:

    Sandpit said:

    I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI

    They've presumably not heard of the Streisand Effect! :lol:
    They think the Streisand Effect is another Jewish conspiracy.
    Very good! :D
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,425
    Barnesian said:

    I think it is in the EU interest as well as ours that we don't crash out so I think there will be no problem in getting a short extension if required. Barnier will have consulted with the 27 and so will be prepared.

    Completely agree with this.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,384
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.

    Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.

    Could be worse, you could have booked train tickets and an hotel in Leeds to go and watch the cricket tomorrow. ;)
    Saw the first 2 days. England were excellent. Not sure that they have answered their critics though. Their main charge was inconsistency!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,052
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Purple said:

    How would Tory and Kipper PBers rank the following three issues by importance, disregarding relative likelihoods and any interdependencies?

    • a) Full Brexit (out of SM, CU, FOM)

    • b) Peace in Ireland (no return to violent Troubles in NI)

    • c) Uninterrupted food supplies (no food shortages affecting more than 100,000 people)

    So I am asking for example would you prefer full Brexit with violence in NI or (for example) BINO with peace in NI, and whether full Brexit would be "worth" (for example) supermarket shelves going bare of food for a fortnight in a few remote areas of Britain, causing (for example) less than 10 deaths of people who were already weakened by health problems.

    I think that Brexit is well worth famine and ethnic cleansing.
    Doesn't that depend on who is starving or being ethnically cleansed?
    No

    Sean is one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse in his spare time
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    rcs1000 said:

    Barnesian said:

    I think it is in the EU interest as well as ours that we don't crash out so I think there will be no problem in getting a short extension if required. Barnier will have consulted with the 27 and so will be prepared.

    Completely agree with this.
    Nice to see the "German car makers will save us" getting another outing
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,384
    Alanbrooke said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Purple said:

    How would Tory and Kipper PBers rank the following three issues by importance, disregarding relative likelihoods and any interdependencies?

    • a) Full Brexit (out of SM, CU, FOM)

    • b) Peace in Ireland (no return to violent Troubles in NI)

    • c) Uninterrupted food supplies (no food shortages affecting more than 100,000 people)

    So I am asking for example would you prefer full Brexit with violence in NI or (for example) BINO with peace in NI, and whether full Brexit would be "worth" (for example) supermarket shelves going bare of food for a fortnight in a few remote areas of Britain, causing (for example) less than 10 deaths of people who were already weakened by health problems.

    I think that Brexit is well worth famine and ethnic cleansing.
    Doesn't that depend on who is starving or being ethnically cleansed?
    No

    Sean is one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse in his spare time
    I’m betting Mr Soak.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,350
    kyf_100 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Purple said:

    Barnesian said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/
    Do any of the three sites mentioned make it as easy to sell BTC as to buy it?
    Revolut say " you can buy, sell, exchange and transfer cryptocurrencies within the Revolut platform". "Crptocurrencies can be exchanged automatically to any supported fiat currency".
    Yup. As far as I am aware Revolut only allow you to hold crypto "within the revolut platform" which means you don't hold it at all and cannot transfer it to an external wallet. Avoid.
    I assume you can exchange it into sterling and then transfer the sterling out.

    I think this means it is only useful for speculation on cryptocurrencies and not for paying in cryptocurrency or money laundering.

    Revolut say they are working on allowing you to transfer to wallets outside the platform and hope it will be available in the future.

    I'm avoiding cryptocurrencies so I have no practical experience.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,894
    Incidentally, got a promotion on with the Sir Edric books. For a week, the first (linked) is just 99p [e-book]. If you enjoy comedy in the vein of Blackadder/Red Dwarf, do give it a look. It's got five star reviews and everything.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventures-Sir-Edric-Thaddeus-White-ebook/dp/B00GCAF2CI/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,384
    Barnesian said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Purple said:

    Barnesian said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/
    Do any of the three sites mentioned make it as easy to sell BTC as to buy it?
    Revolut say " you can buy, sell, exchange and transfer cryptocurrencies within the Revolut platform". "Crptocurrencies can be exchanged automatically to any supported fiat currency".
    Yup. As far as I am aware Revolut only allow you to hold crypto "within the revolut platform" which means you don't hold it at all and cannot transfer it to an external wallet. Avoid.
    I assume you can exchange it into sterling and then transfer the sterling out.

    I think this means it is only useful for speculation on cryptocurrencies and not for paying in cryptocurrency or money laundering.

    Revolut say they are working on allowing you to transfer to wallets outside the platform and hope it will be available in the future.

    I'm avoiding cryptocurrencies so I have no practical experience.
    Many people avoid them because they do.
  • initforthemoneyinitforthemoney Posts: 736
    Purple said:

    How would Tory and Kipper PBers rank the following three issues by importance, disregarding relative likelihoods and any interdependencies?

    • a) Full Brexit (out of SM, CU, FOM)

    • b) Peace in Ireland (no return to violent Troubles in NI)

    • c) Uninterrupted food supplies (no food shortages affecting more than 100,000 people)

    So I am asking for example would you prefer full Brexit with violence in NI or (for example) BINO with peace in NI, and whether full Brexit would be "worth" (for example) supermarket shelves going bare of food for a fortnight in a few remote areas of Britain, causing (for example) less than 10 deaths of people who were already weakened by health problems.

    a
    b
    c

    b more important than c because the number of deaths could be much higher than in your stated example. a before b would probably not apply if I lived in NI.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Tykejohnno said:

    Sandpit said:

    I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI

    It made me laugh.
    The taxi driver is a hoot!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Fiar summary:

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1003309965472395264
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,894
    Right, chaps. This room is a sauna, so I'm off. Do play nicely. And stock up food.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,977
    Barnesian said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Purple said:

    Barnesian said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/
    Do any of the three sites mentioned make it as easy to sell BTC as to buy it?
    Revolut say " you can buy, sell, exchange and transfer cryptocurrencies within the Revolut platform". "Crptocurrencies can be exchanged automatically to any supported fiat currency".
    Yup. As far as I am aware Revolut only allow you to hold crypto "within the revolut platform" which means you don't hold it at all and cannot transfer it to an external wallet. Avoid.
    I assume you can exchange it into sterling and then transfer the sterling out.

    I think this means it is only useful for speculation on cryptocurrencies and not for paying in cryptocurrency or money laundering.

    Revolut say they are working on allowing you to transfer to wallets outside the platform and hope it will be available in the future.

    I'm avoiding cryptocurrencies so I have no practical experience.
    This is correct, however it's an extremely bad idea to leave coins on an exchange as it requires you to trust a third party to hold them for you. Two possible scenarios -- exchanges are targets for hackers and improper security means your money can be stolen. Exchanges can go bust, be running a fractional exchange, etc. It's not uncommon for exchange owners to run off with the coins.

    A second scenario is government intervention. The government could ban crypto tomorrow (less likely in the Uk, but it has already happened in China) and if your coins are locked into an exchange there is no guarantee you could get them out or sell them for value.

    SeanT is good with localbitcoins, which is effectively an escrow service between private buyers and sellers. He should probably get himself a hardware wallet (if he doesn't already) as an additional layer of protection.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,425
    kyf_100 said:

    Barnesian said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Purple said:

    Barnesian said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/
    Do any of the three sites mentioned make it as easy to sell BTC as to buy it?
    Revolut say " you can buy, sell, exchange and transfer cryptocurrencies within the Revolut platform". "Crptocurrencies can be exchanged automatically to any supported fiat currency".
    Yup. As far as I am aware Revolut only allow you to hold crypto "within the revolut platform" which means you don't hold it at all and cannot transfer it to an external wallet. Avoid.
    I assume you can exchange it into sterling and then transfer the sterling out.

    I think this means it is only useful for speculation on cryptocurrencies and not for paying in cryptocurrency or money laundering.

    Revolut say they are working on allowing you to transfer to wallets outside the platform and hope it will be available in the future.

    I'm avoiding cryptocurrencies so I have no practical experience.
    This is correct, however it's an extremely bad idea to leave coins on an exchange as it requires you to trust a third party to hold them for you. Two possible scenarios -- exchanges are targets for hackers and improper security means your money can be stolen. Exchanges can go bust, be running a fractional exchange, etc. It's not uncommon for exchange owners to run off with the coins.

    A second scenario is government intervention. The government could ban crypto tomorrow (less likely in the Uk, but it has already happened in China) and if your coins are locked into an exchange there is no guarantee you could get them out or sell them for value.

    SeanT is good with localbitcoins, which is effectively an escrow service between private buyers and sellers. He should probably get himself a hardware wallet (if he doesn't already) as an additional layer of protection.
    If you want maximum security, why not simply print out your private keys?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    CarlottaVance said:

    Fiar summary:

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1003309965472395264

    Is it? What worries me is there seems to be no real urgency, based on that, to answer questions that were first asked on the night, such as why does the London Fire Brigade (or Service) have no equipment for the tower blocks that are all over the capital? What about the chimney effect of the cladding (separate from its inflammability)?

    In short, if it happened again today, what would be different? I'd hope the country's top firefighting boffins are working on answers, or looking overseas, but I've not heard any announcement from the Mayor or the government.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,555
    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Barnesian said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Purple said:

    Barnesian said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/
    Do any of the three sites mentioned make it as easy to sell BTC as to buy it?
    Revolut say " you can buy, sell, exchange and transfer cryptocurrencies within the Revolut platform". "Crptocurrencies can be exchanged automatically to any supported fiat currency".
    Yup. As far as I am aware Revolut only allow you to hold crypto "within the revolut platform" which means you don't hold it at all and cannot transfer it to an external wallet. Avoid.
    I assume you can exchange it into sterling and then transfer the sterling out.

    I think this means it is only useful for speculation on cryptocurrencies and not for paying in cryptocurrency or money laundering.

    Revolut say they are working on allowing you to transfer to wallets outside the platform and hope it will be available in the future.

    I'm avoiding cryptocurrencies so I have no practical experience.
    This is correct, however it's an extremely bad idea to leave coins on an exchange as it requires you to trust a third party to hold them for you. Two possible scenarios -- exchanges are targets for hackers and improper security means your money can be stolen. Exchanges can go bust, be running a fractional exchange, etc. It's not uncommon for exchange owners to run off with the coins.

    A second scenario is government intervention. The government could ban crypto tomorrow (less likely in the Uk, but it has already happened in China) and if your coins are locked into an exchange there is no guarantee you could get them out or sell them for value.

    SeanT is good with localbitcoins, which is effectively an escrow service between private buyers and sellers. He should probably get himself a hardware wallet (if he doesn't already) as an additional layer of protection.
    If you want maximum security, why not simply print out your private keys?
    A hardware wallet e.g. nano ledger and a paper copies (which are split and stored in different locations) is the general advice.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    DavidL said:

    Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.

    Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.

    The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,631
    Barnesian said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Purple said:

    Barnesian said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/
    Do any of the three sites mentioned make it as easy to sell BTC as to buy it?
    Revolut say " you can buy, sell, exchange and transfer cryptocurrencies within the Revolut platform". "Crptocurrencies can be exchanged automatically to any supported fiat currency".
    Yup. As far as I am aware Revolut only allow you to hold crypto "within the revolut platform" which means you don't hold it at all and cannot transfer it to an external wallet. Avoid.
    I assume you can exchange it into sterling and then transfer the sterling out.

    I think this means it is only useful for speculation on cryptocurrencies and not for paying in cryptocurrency or money laundering.

    Revolut say they are working on allowing you to transfer to wallets outside the platform and hope it will be available in the future.

    I'm avoiding cryptocurrencies so I have no practical experience.
    That sounds self-perprtuating - how would you gain practical experience if you avoid them?

    I'm avoiding them because I don't understand them, thus I don't understand what they offer and I don't understand the risks. I am perfectly able to lose money through tradistional investments. :wink:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,631
    Purple said:

    How would Tory and Kipper PBers rank the following three issues by importance, disregarding relative likelihoods and any interdependencies?

    • a) Full Brexit (out of SM, CU, FOM)

    • b) Peace in Ireland (no return to violent Troubles in NI)

    • c) Uninterrupted food supplies (no food shortages affecting more than 100,000 people)

    So I am asking for example would you prefer full Brexit with violence in NI or (for example) BINO with peace in NI, and whether full Brexit would be "worth" (for example) supermarket shelves going bare of food for a fortnight in a few remote areas of Britain, causing (for example) less than 10 deaths of people who were already weakened by health problems.

    On a point of order, are there any PB Kippers?
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    All my diabetes medication comes from Denmark...
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Incidentally, got a promotion on with the Sir Edric books. For a week, the first (linked) is just 99p [e-book]. If you enjoy comedy in the vein of Blackadder/Red Dwarf, do give it a look. It's got five star reviews and everything.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventures-Sir-Edric-Thaddeus-White-ebook/dp/B00GCAF2CI/

    Well since you seem to have been talking about your books pretty much since Gordon Brown was PM (which is when I started lurking) I thought it was time to try one, so lets see how it goes...
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,350
    Benpointer said:

    Barnesian said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Purple said:

    Barnesian said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/
    Do any of the three sites mentioned make it as easy to sell BTC as to buy it?
    Revolut say " you can buy, sell, exchange and transfer cryptocurrencies within the Revolut platform". "Crptocurrencies can be exchanged automatically to any supported fiat currency".
    Yup. As far as I am aware Revolut only allow you to hold crypto "within the revolut platform" which means you don't hold it at all and cannot transfer it to an external wallet. Avoid.
    I assume you can exchange it into sterling and then transfer the sterling out.

    I think this means it is only useful for speculation on cryptocurrencies and not for paying in cryptocurrency or money laundering.

    Revolut say they are working on allowing you to transfer to wallets outside the platform and hope it will be available in the future.

    I'm avoiding cryptocurrencies so I have no practical experience.
    That sounds self-perprtuating - how would you gain practical experience if you avoid them?

    I'm avoiding them because I don't understand them, thus I don't understand what they offer and I don't understand the risks. I am perfectly able to lose money through tradistional investments. :wink:
    It is self-perpetuating. I will never have practical experience of them because I will continue to avoid them like the plague.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. T, although I'm definitely not the best chap here to offer investment advice, one thing worth considering is mint condition coins. Prices only ever go up as supply declines over time, and it seems difficult to imagine there'll ever stop being a market.

    Won't soar in value, of course, but still worth consideration.

    I had a quick look at the Royal Mint site a few weeks ago. Was mildly amused to find the (then) top-priced coin was the Golden Bull of Clarence. Which was £49,995. Gold coin that weighs a kilo.

    My brother has rather nice collection - a single mint gold sovereign (first press) from the year of accession of each monarch since Charles II
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,886
    Benpointer said:

    Purple said:

    How would Tory and Kipper PBers rank the following three issues by importance, disregarding relative likelihoods and any interdependencies?

    • a) Full Brexit (out of SM, CU, FOM)

    • b) Peace in Ireland (no return to violent Troubles in NI)

    • c) Uninterrupted food supplies (no food shortages affecting more than 100,000 people)

    So I am asking for example would you prefer full Brexit with violence in NI or (for example) BINO with peace in NI, and whether full Brexit would be "worth" (for example) supermarket shelves going bare of food for a fortnight in a few remote areas of Britain, causing (for example) less than 10 deaths of people who were already weakened by health problems.

    On a point of order, are there any PB Kippers?
    On a point of order, are there any Kippers?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,631
    Barnesian said:

    Benpointer said:

    Barnesian said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Purple said:

    Barnesian said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FPT,

    SeanT said:

    Can anyone recommend a good place to buy bitcoin?

    RCS once suggested a very useful BTC-buying site, which I visited a few times, but my damn laptop has broken and I can't recall the name.

    GDax / Coinbase is the biggest and most reputable (both owned by the same company, Coinbase charges a lot higher fees for basically having a simpler more newbie friendly interface).
    Try Revolut. It's also good for exchanging currencies and transferring between banks in different currencies.

    https://www.revolut.com/
    Do any of the three sites mentioned make it as easy to sell BTC as to buy it?
    Revolut say " you can buy, sell, exchange and transfer cryptocurrencies within the Revolut platform". "Crptocurrencies can be exchanged automatically to any supported fiat currency".
    Yup. As far as I am aware Revolut only allow you to hold crypto "within the revolut platform" which means you don't hold it at all and cannot transfer it to an external wallet. Avoid.
    I assume you can exchange it into sterling and then transfer the sterling out.

    I think this means it is only useful for speculation on cryptocurrencies and not for paying in cryptocurrency or money laundering.

    Revolut say they are working on allowing you to transfer to wallets outside the platform and hope it will be available in the future.

    I'm avoiding cryptocurrencies so I have no practical experience.
    That sounds self-perprtuating - how would you gain practical experience if you avoid them?

    I'm avoiding them because I don't understand them, thus I don't understand what they offer and I don't understand the risks. I am perfectly able to lose money through tradistional investments. :wink:
    It is self-perpetuating. I will never have practical experience of them because I will continue to avoid them like the plague.
    Fair point - I'm gonna follow your lead!
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.

    Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.

    The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
    We will be in the customs union until the middle of the next parliament. After then, the DUP will no longer be kingmakers and the wind will have been knocked out of the Remain side after the rest of the country has moved on. We will quietly exit to not much fuss.
  • TheKitchenCabinetTheKitchenCabinet Posts: 2,275
    Just spent a lovely few days in Kiev with friends, some excellent food and coffee shops, now back and I see we are talking about food shortages :)

    Completely O/T but wanted to flag my tip about the Republicans winning the House in November. It has come in to Evens from 5/4 on Ladbrokes but it still looks good value - the jobs data on Friday was extremely good, the generic lead for the Democrats is down to 3.2% according to the RCP average, Trump's ratings are on the rise and the percentage saying the country is on the right track, while still negative, is at 5 year high. Plus the Democrats have little new to say and run the risk of piling huge majorities in safe areas but missing out on swing seats.


    Just on (zzzz) Brexit, what Archer said in a previous thread makes sense i.e. the Govt just announces it will scrap border controls unilaterally and it is then up to the EU to decide what they want to do. What has happened in Italy is likely to strengthen the hard-line Brexit faction in the Conservatives - Juncker is now talking about how Europe cannot dictate to Italy and George Soros is saying the EU needs to fully compensate Italy for its migrant issues. The hard-liners will take this as a vindication of, mmmm, taking a hard-line with the EU.

    I also don't get the line about food shortages if the UK comes out without a deal. That ST article makes the mistake of assuming that any problems are confined to the UK. Let's take one example. "We will run out of food". If we run out of food, it likely means that no food whatsoever is coming from Ireland. If that is the case, Irish farmers, pardon the language, are f**ked as food has little shelf-life, the Irish Govt will be unable to compensate the farmers for their losses and the EU is unlikely to want to set a precedent. So hit on the Irish economy and a likely outbreak of the farmers putting massive pressure on good old Leo to sort things out pronto. Ditto for other industries.

    I suspect we will be fine.

  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    Foxy said:

    Elliot said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    Voting against your own party's manifesto does seem like a deselection issue.
    Ironicreally. PB Toties get very juiced up at the hint of a Corbynist campaign to deselect (despite their rarity) while threatening their own with the same.

    Purge the Wrekers and Kulaks, the peoples revolution must be protected!
    The Corbynistas would have every right to deselect those who oppose the Labour manifesto.
  • TheKitchenCabinetTheKitchenCabinet Posts: 2,275
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.

    Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.

    The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
    The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.

    Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.

    And that supports your case how?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.

    Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.

    And that supports your case how?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,274
    williamglenn said:

    Benpointer said:

    Sandpit said:

    I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI

    They've presumably not heard of the Streisand Effect! :lol:
    They think the Streisand Effect is another Jewish conspiracy.
    Fair play, that's a brilliant one-liner.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,894
    Fenman said:

    All my diabetes medication comes from Denmark...

    And Novo Nordisk buys components critical to its production from companies in the UK...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,274
    Elliot said:

    Foxy said:

    Elliot said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).

    However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit

    Voting against your own party's manifesto does seem like a deselection issue.
    Ironicreally. PB Toties get very juiced up at the hint of a Corbynist campaign to deselect (despite their rarity) while threatening their own with the same.

    Purge the Wrekers and Kulaks, the peoples revolution must be protected!
    The Corbynistas would have every right to deselect those who oppose the Labour manifesto.
    The problem will arise when they try to deselect everyone else as well, apart from Macdonnell, Pidcock, Dent Coad and O'Mara.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,332
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.

    Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.

    And that supports your case how?
    I think all the substantive votes will go the Govt’s way. Every other substantive division has so far; and all but one process vote.
This discussion has been closed.

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