Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
Given that the Customs union is an inherently EU institution, I suspect otherwise...
If you want maximum security, why not simply print out your private keys?
Physical security issues, the possibility of them remaining in your printer memory (?!) and ease of checking balance are a few points I've seen on the issue.
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
For somebody who repeatedly says Leavers are doing nothing to heal divisions, you're very liberal with the nasty insults, Alastair.
I think it is in the EU interest as well as ours that we don't crash out so I think there will be no problem in getting a short extension if required. Barnier will have consulted with the 27 and so will be prepared.
Completely agree with this.
Nice to see the "German car makers will save us" getting another outing
I wonder what the final iteration will be
"We didn't get Canada++, or customs partnership. But, they won't charge us triple for essential medicines because they need our business"
Mr. T, although I'm definitely not the best chap here to offer investment advice, one thing worth considering is mint condition coins. Prices only ever go up as supply declines over time, and it seems difficult to imagine there'll ever stop being a market.
Won't soar in value, of course, but still worth consideration.
I had a quick look at the Royal Mint site a few weeks ago. Was mildly amused to find the (then) top-priced coin was the Golden Bull of Clarence. Which was £49,995. Gold coin that weighs a kilo.
My brother has rather nice collection - a single mint gold sovereign (first press) from the year of accession of each monarch since Charles II
Meh, I have at will, you could go there at night and be alone with the stones. Just incredible.
Now of course it is world famous and has dramatic security and the idea of just cabbing out into the Kurdish desert to see it, and picking up flint weapons, is insane.
"Göbekli Tepe is regarded by some as an archaeological discovery of the greatest importance since it could profoundly change the understanding of a crucial stage in the development of human society. Ian Hodder of Stanford University said, "Göbekli Tepe changes everything""
I've basically got the shovel wielded by Adam when he was expelled from Paradise. Beat that.
According to Sunilist "logic", the Scorpion on Pillar 43 in enclosure D at Gobekli Tepe represents the summer solstice lying in Scorpio in 9600 BC. The Birdman immediately above is one of the earliest representations of Orion, given that the winter solstice lay not far away in Taurus in 9600 BC. Anyhoo, this "anchors" Gobekli Tepe, or at least Enclosure D to the epoch of 9600 BC. Note that Orion was sacred to the much later Egyptian culture (as Osiris). There is an orb depicted above the Birdman's right arm. Some think that is the sun, but I think it is actually a representation of the Comet theorised by others to be the cause of a global cataclysm that overtook a hypothetical early civilisation whose survivors gave rise to Gobekli Tepe, Egypt, and a whole host of others after the cataclysm. The comet is thought to have left debris as the Taurid meteor shower, connecting it to Taurus and its neighbour Orion.
While not accepting that PIllar 43 depicted any constellations, the late German archaeologist Klaus Schmidt that Gobekli Tepe nonetheless thought that it dates from approximately 9600 BC.
Now, get this - what date does Plato (the Greek, not the ex-PBer!) postulate as the date for the destruction of Atlantis, his name for the originator civilisation?
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
Given that the Customs union is an inherently EU institution, I suspect otherwise...
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
For somebody who repeatedly says Leavers are doing nothing to heal divisions, you're very liberal with the nasty insults, Alastair.
You fell in happily behind a campaign of xenophobic lies. It’s a bit late to worry about hurt feelings.
Mr. T, although I'm definitely not the best chap here to offer investment advice, one thing worth considering is mint condition coins. Prices only ever go up as supply declines over time, and it seems difficult to imagine there'll ever stop being a market.
Won't soar in value, of course, but still worth consideration.
I had a quick look at the Royal Mint site a few weeks ago. Was mildly amused to find the (then) top-priced coin was the Golden Bull of Clarence. Which was £49,995. Gold coin that weighs a kilo.
My brother has rather nice collection - a single mint gold sovereign (first press) from the year of accession of each monarch since Charles II
Meh, I have a flint arrowheaded knapped circa 10,000 BC by the same hunter-gatherers that built Gobekli Tepe, the world's oldest construction, and probably the most mysterious, also the world's oldest religious site.
I found it myself when I first went to see this "Temple in Eden", fifteen years ago. In those days you were free to wander the site at will, you could go there at night and be alone with the stones. Just incredible.
Now of course it is world famous and has dramatic security and the idea of just cabbing out into the Kurdish desert to see it, and picking up flint weapons, is insane.
"Göbekli Tepe is regarded by some as an archaeological discovery of the greatest importance since it could profoundly change the understanding of a crucial stage in the development of human society. Ian Hodder of Stanford University said, "Göbekli Tepe changes everything""
And Novo Nordisk buys components critical to its production from companies in the UK...
Denmark is very big in some specific areas of healthcare - diaetes, hearing aids and... colostomy bags. I have little doubt that difficulty in obtaining colostomy bags would cause some embarrassing but serious problems for many - but the idea Coloplast or NN will stop shipping products to the UK is top scaremongering nonsense.
These are political not legal problems and the EU and the UK will find a way to trade. It will just be on worse terms for the UK than if the UK were staying in the EU. I do wish this kind of rubbish hyperbole were left to one side, as bad as claiming the EU is like the USSR.
Mr. T, although I'm definitely not the best chap here to offer investment advice, one thing worth considering is mint condition coins. Prices only ever go up as supply declines over time, and it seems difficult to imagine there'll ever stop being a market.
Won't soar in value, of course, but still worth consideration.
I had a quick look at the Royal Mint site a few weeks ago. Was mildly amused to find the (then) top-priced coin was the Golden Bull of Clarence. Which was £49,995. Gold coin that weighs a kilo.
My brother has rather nice collection - a single mint gold sovereign (first press) from the year of accession of each monarch since Charles II
Meh, I have at will, you could go there at night and be alone with the stones. Just incredible.
Now of course it is world famous and has dramatic security and the idea of just cabbing out into the Kurdish desert to see it, and picking up flint weapons, is insane.
"Göbekli Tepe is regarded by some as an archaeological discovery of the greatest importance since it could profoundly change the understanding of a crucial stage in the development of human society. Ian Hodder of Stanford University said, "Göbekli Tepe changes everything""
I've basically got the shovel wielded by Adam when he was expelled from Paradise. Beat that.
According to Sunilist "logic", the Scorpion on Pillar 43 in enclosure D at Gobekli Tepe represents the summer solstice lying in Scorpio in 9600 BC. The Birdman immediately above is one of the earliest representations of Orion, given that the winter solstice lay not far away in Taurus in 9600 BC. Anyhoo, this "anchors" Gobekli Tepe, or at least Enclosure D to the epoch of 9600 BC. Note that Orion was sacred to the much later Egyptian culture (as Osiris). There is an orb depicted above the Birdman's right arm. Some think that is the sun, but I think it is actually a representation of the Comet theorised by others to be the cause of a global cataclysm that overtook a hypothetical early civilisation whose survivors gave rise to Gobekli Tepe, Egypt, and a whole host of others after the cataclysm. The comet is thought to have left debris as the Taurid meteor shower, connecting it to Taurus and its neighbour Orion.
While not accepting that PIllar 43 depicted any constellations, the late German archaeologist Klaus Schmidt that Gobekli Tepe nonetheless thought that it dates from approximately 9600 BC.
Now, get this - what date does Plato (the Greek, not the ex-PBer!) postulate as the date for the destruction of Atlantis, his name for the originator civilisation?
9600BC!!
You missed out the reference to Finchley Road, or wherever it is ....
And Novo Nordisk buys components critical to its production from companies in the UK...
Denmark is very big in some specific areas of healthcare - diaetes, hearing aids and... colostomy bags. I have little doubt that difficulty in obtaining colostomy bags would cause some embarrassing but serious problems for many - but the idea Coloplast or NN will stop shipping products to the UK is top scaremongering nonsense.
These are political not legal problems and the EU and the UK will find a way to trade. It will just be on worse terms for the UK than if the UK were staying in the EU. I do wish this kind of rubbish hyperbole were left to one side, as bad as claiming the EU is like the USSR.
I was talking to an intelligent, highly educated individual today who is so opposed to Brexit that she was parroting this sort of carp. Particularly on medicines. It seems to be mindset thing; ‘I’m right therefore the worst will happen because I want it to be bad, because that will prove me to be right: that we can’t function without the EU.
Mr. T, although I'm definitely not the best chap here to offer investment advice, one thing worth considering is mint condition coins. Prices only ever go up as supply declines over time, and it seems difficult to imagine there'll ever stop being a market.
Won't soar in value, of course, but still worth consideration.
I had a quick look at the Royal Mint site a few weeks ago. Was mildly amused to find the (then) top-priced coin was the Golden Bull of Clarence. Which was £49,995. Gold coin that weighs a kilo.
My brother has rather nice collection - a single mint gold sovereign (first press) from the year of accession of each monarch since Charles II
Meh, I have a flint arrowheaded knapped circa 10,000 BC by the same hunter-gatherers that built Gobekli Tepe, the world's oldest construction, and probably the most mysterious, also the world's oldest religious site.
I found it myself when I first went to see this "Temple in Eden", fifteen years ago. In those days you were free to wander the site at will, you could go there at night and be alone with the stones. Just incredible.
Now of course it is world famous and has dramatic security and the idea of just cabbing out into the Kurdish desert to see it, and picking up flint weapons, is insane.
"Göbekli Tepe is regarded by some as an archaeological discovery of the greatest importance since it could profoundly change the understanding of a crucial stage in the development of human society. Ian Hodder of Stanford University said, "Göbekli Tepe changes everything""
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
For somebody who repeatedly says Leavers are doing nothing to heal divisions, you're very liberal with the nasty insults, Alastair.
You fell in happily behind a campaign of xenophobic lies. It’s a bit late to worry about hurt feelings.
Ah, the second of your two approaches to debating Leavers.
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
Given that the Customs union is an inherently EU institution, I suspect otherwise...
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
For somebody who repeatedly says Leavers are doing nothing to heal divisions, you're very liberal with the nasty insults, Alastair.
You fell in happily behind a campaign of xenophobic lies. It’s a bit late to worry about hurt feelings.
Ah, the second of your two approaches to debating Leavers.
Don’t play the victim. You’ve played a personal part in debasing the nation’s polity and in normalising xenophobia. I’m sure it’s all worth it for you for Brexit. But don’t expect any respect from those who don’t share your mad obsession while you remain completely unrepentant about the damage you have done.
Mr. T, although I'm definitely not the best chap here to offer investment advice, one thing worth considering is mint condition coins. Prices only ever go up as supply declines over time, and it seems difficult to imagine there'll ever stop being a market.
Won't soar in value, of course, but still worth consideration.
I had a quick look at the Royal Mint site a few weeks ago. Was mildly amused to find the (then) top-priced coin was the Golden Bull of Clarence. Which was £49,995. Gold coin that weighs a kilo.
My brother has rather nice collection - a single mint gold sovereign (first press) from the year of accession of each monarch since Charles II
Meh, I have a flint arrowheaded knapped circa 10,000 BC by the same hunter-gatherers that built Gobekli Tepe, the world's oldest construction, and probably the most mysterious, also the world's oldest religious site.
I found it myself when I first went to see this "Temple in Eden", fifteen years ago. In those days you were free to wander the site at will, you could go there at night and be alone with the stones. Just incredible.
Now of course it is world famous and has dramatic security and the idea of just cabbing out into the Kurdish desert to see it, and picking up flint weapons, is insane.
"Göbekli Tepe is regarded by some as an archaeological discovery of the greatest importance since it could profoundly change the understanding of a crucial stage in the development of human society. Ian Hodder of Stanford University said, "Göbekli Tepe changes everything""
I've basically got the shovel wielded by Adam when he was expelled from Paradise. Beat that.
I've got 16 grams of a material that was created over five billion years ago in a supernova before the sun existed. I always carry it around with me.
We are all made of star dust from supernovae and so, for instance, predate 4004 BC by quite a bit.
My 16 grams is selenium which makes up 0.000019% of a human body. Its atomic weight is above that of iron so it could only have been created in a supernova. I'd be dead without it.
Just spent a lovely few days in Kiev with friends, some excellent food and coffee shops, now back and I see we are talking about food shortages
Completely O/T but wanted to flag my tip about the Republicans winning the House in November. It has come in to Evens from 5/4 on Ladbrokes but it still looks good value - the jobs data on Friday was extremely good, the generic lead for the Democrats is down to 3.2% according to the RCP average, Trump's ratings are on the rise and the percentage saying the country is on the right track, while still negative, is at 5 year high. Plus the Democrats have little new to say and run the risk of piling huge majorities in safe areas but missing out on swing seats.
Just on (zzzz) Brexit, what Archer said in a previous thread makes sense i.e. the Govt just announces it will scrap border controls unilaterally and it is then up to the EU to decide what they want to do. What has happened in Italy is likely to strengthen the hard-line Brexit faction in the Conservatives - Juncker is now talking about how Europe cannot dictate to Italy and George Soros is saying the EU needs to fully compensate Italy for its migrant issues. The hard-liners will take this as a vindication of, mmmm, taking a hard-line with the EU.
I also don't get the line about food shortages if the UK comes out without a deal. That ST article makes the mistake of assuming that any problems are confined to the UK. Let's take one example. "We will run out of food". If we run out of food, it likely means that no food whatsoever is coming from Ireland. If that is the case, Irish farmers, pardon the language, are f**ked as food has little shelf-life, the Irish Govt will be unable to compensate the farmers for their losses and the EU is unlikely to want to set a precedent. So hit on the Irish economy and a likely outbreak of the farmers putting massive pressure on good old Leo to sort things out pronto. Ditto for other industries.
I suspect we will be fine.
I suspect the tariffs issue will hit the GOP in the midterms, Democrats and Independents oppose the tariffs in polls and while Republicans support them the GOP leadership in Congress led by Speaker Paul Ryan have openly criticised Trump for introducing the tariffs so I expect some Trump supporters will think sod them and stay home in November rather than turn out on a cold night to vote for Ryan (or his successor) and McConnell
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
For somebody who repeatedly says Leavers are doing nothing to heal divisions, you're very liberal with the nasty insults, Alastair.
You fell in happily behind a campaign of xenophobic lies. It’s a bit late to worry about hurt feelings.
Ah, the second of your two approaches to debating Leavers.
Don’t play the victim. You’ve played a personal part in debasing the nation’s polity and in normalising xenophobia. I’m sure it’s all worth it for you for Brexit. But don’t expect any respect from those who don’t share your mad obsession while you remain completely unrepentant about the damage you have done.
I don't accept that Vote Leave or I did either. You're the one with an obsession here.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
Guess they missed Theresa, Nicola, Donald and Michael Gove also coming in for a lampooning.
Mr. T, although I'm definitely not the best chap here to offer investment advice, one thing worth considering is mint condition coins. Prices only ever go up as supply declines over time, and it seems difficult to imagine there'll ever stop being a market.
Won't soar in value, of course, but still worth consideration.
I had a quick look at the Royal Mint site a few weeks ago. Was mildly amused to find the (then) top-priced coin was the Golden Bull of Clarence. Which was £49,995. Gold coin that weighs a kilo.
My brother has rather nice collection - a single mint gold sovereign (first press) from the year of accession of each monarch since Charles II
Meh, I have a flint arrowheaded knapped circa 10,000 BC by the same hunter-gatherers that built Gobekli Tepe, the world's oldest construction, and probably the most mysterious, also the world's oldest religious site.
I found it myself when I first went to see this "Temple in Eden", fifteen years ago. In those days you were free to wander the site at will, you could go there at night and be alone with the stones. Just incredible.
Now of course it is world famous and has dramatic security and the idea of just cabbing out into the Kurdish desert to see it, and picking up flint weapons, is insane.
"Göbekli Tepe is regarded by some as an archaeological discovery of the greatest importance since it could profoundly change the understanding of a crucial stage in the development of human society. Ian Hodder of Stanford University said, "Göbekli Tepe changes everything""
I've basically got the shovel wielded by Adam when he was expelled from Paradise. Beat that.
I've got 16 grams of a material that was created over five billion years ago in a supernova before the sun existed. I always carry it around with me.
We are all made of star dust from supernovae and so, for instance, predate 4004 BC by quite a bit.
My 16 grams is selenium which makes up 0.000019% of a human body. Its atomic weight is above that of iron so it could only have been created in a supernova. I'd be dead without it.
But once we leave the EU, we won't be able to get selenium any more, and that means...
Hang on. Is that the line? Losing track at the moment.
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
For somebody who repeatedly says Leavers are doing nothing to heal divisions, you're very liberal with the nasty insults, Alastair.
You fell in happily behind a campaign of xenophobic lies. It’s a bit late to worry about hurt feelings.
Ah, the second of your two approaches to debating Leavers.
Don’t play the victim. You’ve played a personal part in debasing the nation’s polity and in normalising xenophobia. I’m sure it’s all worth it for you for Brexit. But don’t expect any respect from those who don’t share your mad obsession while you remain completely unrepentant about the damage you have done.
I don't accept that Vote Leave or I did either. You're the one with a mass obsession here.
Of course Vote Leave (aided by you) did. You weren’t reminding voters about the number of Turks as part of a geography refresher service. You wanted to frighten voters into imagining that millions of Muslims were about to descend on Britain. You were successful. The country is seeing the consequences now, with the normalisation of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. This is your work.
Double dose of Jeremy Thorpe now, the final episode of 'A Very English Scandal' on BBC1 now and then on BBC4 at 10pm an updated version of a Panorama report by Tom Mangold into the scandal that was never screened
Hello PBer's. I have been a lurker for a long time so I feel that I know all of your online foibles and you know nothing about me. So on the off chance that you will allow myself into your online community, I think I should say a few words about moi.
So lets start with the issue du jour, Brexit.
I watched a posh, suited and booted middle class man stand up and say that unless I voted his way, hordes of brown skinned people would flood the UK and that this would be bad. This leader of the campaign, also used some very emotive terms, such as they all lived in the jungle and they would create a jungle in the UK. Obviously the link he was making was animals live in the jungle. So his message was vote my way or brown skinned animals are going to flood in to the UK. There was no way I could vote for this overtly racist campaign and I am surprised that any other person could, let alone take the high ground and shout "all leavers are racists, xenophobes." So I voted leave, because the remain campaign was disgraceful.
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
For somebody who repeatedly says Leavers are doing nothing to heal divisions, you're very liberal with the nasty insults, Alastair.
You fell in happily behind a campaign of xenophobic lies. It’s a bit late to worry about hurt feelings.
Ah, the second of your two approaches to debating Leavers.
Don’t play the victim. You’ve played a personal part in debasing the nation’s polity and in normalising xenophobia. I’m sure it’s all worth it for you for Brexit. But don’t expect any respect from those who don’t share your mad obsession while you remain completely unrepentant about the damage you have done.
I don't accept that Vote Leave or I did either. You're the one with a mass obsession here.
Of course Vote Leave (aided by you) did. You weren’t reminding voters about the number of Turks as part of a geography refresher service. You wanted to frighten voters into imagining that millions of Muslims were about to descend on Britain. You were successful. The country is seeing the consequences now, with the normalisation of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. This is your work.
Bullshit. We pointed out that Turkey had a membership application underway, supported by our government, and this would mean more uncontrollable immigration. You and I both know what's behind anti-Semitism and it isn't Brexit.
Hello PBer's. I have been a lurker for a long time so I feel that I know all of your online foibles and you know nothing about me. So on the off chance that you will allow myself into your online community, I think I should say a few words about moi.
So lets start with the issue du jour, Brexit.
I watched a posh, suited and booted middle class man stand up and say that unless I voted his way, hordes of brown skinned people would flood the UK and that this would be bad. This leader of the campaign, also used some very emotive terms, such as they all lived in the jungle and they would create a jungle in the UK. Obviously the link he was making was animals live in the jungle. So his message was vote my way or brown skinned animals are going to flood in to the UK. There was no way I could vote for this overtly racist campaign and I am surprised that any other person could, let alone take the high ground and shout "all leavers are racists, xenophobes." So I voted leave, because the remain campaign was disgraceful.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
George W Bush, Charles Kennedy, Berlusconi, Reagan, Bill Clinton, William Hague
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
Guess they missed Theresa, Nicola, Donald and Michael Gove also coming in for a lampooning.
Well quite, it’s hardly as if it was the Get Jeremy Corbyn Show, politicians of all sides were the subject of jokes and impressions, continuing the long tradition of taking the piss out of those who seek to rule.
Given the very thin-skinned reaction to the Corbyn sketch (including the fake allegation that it was written by David Baddiel) I’m sure Ms Ullman will be continuing the character for the next few weeks -most likely accompanied again by his friend Gerry.
The other question is What Would Jeremy Do. His approach so far has been to ensure that there is no trace that is attributed to him of looking to block Brexit. I suspect May's rationale for gathering these votes together is to force Corbyn off the fence - if he votes against the Govt, the Tories will accuse him of looking to block Brexit and, if he abstains or votes for the Govt (unlikely), his pro-Remain MPs will crucify him.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
For somebody who repeatedly says Leavers are doing nothing to heal divisions, you're very liberal with the nasty insults, Alastair.
You fell in happily behind a campaign of xenophobic lies. It’s a bit late to worry about hurt feelings.
Ah, the second of your two approaches to debating Leavers.
Don’t play the victim. You’ve played a personal part in debasing the nation’s polity and in normalising xenophobia. I’m sure it’s all worth it for you for Brexit. But don’t expect any respect from those who don’t share your mad obsession while you remain completely unrepentant about the damage you have done.
I don't accept that Vote Leave or I did either. You're the one with a mass obsession here.
Of course Vote Leave (aided by you) did. You weren’t reminding voters about the number of Turks as part of a geography refresher service. You wanted to frighten voters into imagining that millions of Muslims were about to descend on Britain. You were successful. The country is seeing the consequences now, with the normalisation of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. This is your work.
Bullshit. We pointed out that Turkey had a membership application underway, supported by our government, and this would mean more uncontrollable immigration. You and I both know what's behind anti-Semitism and it isn't Brexit.
Ducking my point completely because it is unanswerable. You know full well there was no prospect in the foreseeable future of Turks having a right to come to Britain. But you chose to frighten people into thinking they would. Why? Because you wanted to stir up their fear of foreigners, Muslims at that. It worked. And now xenophobia is part of British politics. Your pick-n-mix racism is part of the mainstream now.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
George W Bush, Charles Kennedy, Berlusconi, Reagan, Bill Clinton, William Hague
I wouldn't say Kennedy or Hague were successful in the terms I am thinking of, although it's debatable I suppose. I also wasn't aware of George W's and Berlusconi's senses of humour, but I grant Reagan and maybe Clinton.
Slovenia’s opposition centre-right anti-immigrant party is on course to win a national election after taking 24.4% of the vote, according to exit polls from TV Slovenia.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
John Major, Tony Blair and David Cameron certainly had one. So does Theresa May, as her dressing up as George Osborne in hi-viz showed.
I’m not sure about Margaret Thatcher, Ted Heath or Gordon Brown.
Alex Salmond was totally incapable of laughing at jokes at his expense or that of the SNP, which is the bit that’s most important.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
George W Bush, Charles Kennedy, Berlusconi, Reagan, Bill Clinton, William Hague
I wouldn't say Kennedy or Hague were successful in the terms I am thinking of, although it's debatable I suppose. I also wasn't aware of George W's and Berlusconi's senses of humour, but I grant Reagan and maybe Clinton.
Kennedy got the highest number of Liberal MPs since 1923 when he led the party at the 2005 general election. Hague was less successful admittedly but still led his party.
Bush and Berlusconi were always making quips, though Berlusconi's could be rather smutty, we agree on Reagan and Clinton
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
“The UK *will* be in *the* Customs Union.”
There’s no way you can possibly know that, and the UK Government would collapse if it was. Even the EU know this, and have put their case that it extends just to NI alone. The amendment wasn’t even for that from the Lords: it was for a position statement on ‘a’ (i.e. a form of a) Customs Union, and no one expects full membership to fly.
This is just yet another example of your ultra-Euphile confirmation bias, without the confirmation, masquerading as objective analysis. Your raison d’etre on this site.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
John Major, Tony Blair and David Cameron certainly had one. So does Theresa May, as her dressing up as George Osborne in hi-viz showed.
I’m not sure about Margaret Thatcher, Ted Heath or Gordon Brown.
Alex Salmond was totally incapable of laughing at jokes at his expense or that of the SNP, which is the bit that’s most important.
True about Salmond not laughing at himself, which takes me back to my original point of successful politicians taking themselves very seriously.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Hello PBer's. I have been a lurker for a long time so I feel that I know all of your online foibles and you know nothing about me. So on the off chance that you will allow myself into your online community, I think I should say a few words about moi.
So lets start with the issue du jour, Brexit.
I watched a posh, suited and booted middle class man stand up and say that unless I voted his way, hordes of brown skinned people would flood the UK and that this would be bad. This leader of the campaign, also used some very emotive terms, such as they all lived in the jungle and they would create a jungle in the UK. Obviously the link he was making was animals live in the jungle. So his message was vote my way or brown skinned animals are going to flood in to the UK. There was no way I could vote for this overtly racist campaign and I am surprised that any other person could, let alone take the high ground and shout "all leavers are racists, xenophobes." So I voted leave, because the remain campaign was disgraceful.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
John Major, Tony Blair and David Cameron certainly had one. So does Theresa May, as her dressing up as George Osborne in hi-viz showed.
I’m not sure about Margaret Thatcher, Ted Heath or Gordon Brown.
Alex Salmond was totally incapable of laughing at jokes at his expense or that of the SNP, which is the bit that’s most important.
True about Salmond not laughing at himself, which takes me back to my original point of successful politicians taking themselves very seriously.
Your point doesn’t stand the slightest scrutiny, I’m afraid.
Having a sense of humour doesn’t mean choosing to play the clown, or not. It’s about a self awareness that recognises the absurdities of life, and politics, in yourself as much as others, which helps you empathise with others, and them with you.
I’d say it’s part of what makes both bearable, and having one is a bigger enabler of a successful political career than an inhibitor.
It’s only the more cuckoo Leave obsessives who see exiting the Customs Union as essential to True Brexit. Those nutjobs are already all lined up behind the Conservatives.
Labour has a free hand on this point.
For somebody who repeatedly says Leavers are doing nothing to heal divisions, you're very liberal with the nasty insults, Alastair.
You fell in happily behind a campaign of xenophobic lies. It’s a bit late to worry about hurt feelings.
Ah, the second of your two approaches to debating Leavers.
Don’t play the victim. You’ve played a personal part in debasing the nation’s polity and in normalising xenophobia. I’m sure it’s all worth it for you for Brexit. But don’t expect any respect from those who don’t share your mad obsession while you remain completely unrepentant about the damage you have done.
I don't accept that Vote Leave or I did either. You're the one with a mass obsession here.
Of course Vote Leave (aided by you) did. You weren’t reminding voters about the number of Turks as part of a geography refresher service. You wanted to frighten voters into imagining that millions of Muslims were about to descend on Britain. You were successful. The country is seeing the consequences now, with the normalisation of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. This is your work.
Bullshit. We pointed out that Turkey had a membership application underway, supported by our government, and this would mean more uncontrollable immigration. You and I both know what's behind anti-Semitism and it isn't Brexit.
Ducking my point completely because it is unanswerable. You know full well there was no prospect in the foreseeable future of Turks having a right to come to Britain. But you chose to frighten people into thinking they would. Why? Because you wanted to stir up their fear of foreigners, Muslims at that. It worked. And now xenophobia is part of British politics. Your pick-n-mix racism is part of the mainstream now.
Of course there was such a prospect, during the accession period. You seem oddly obsessed with their religion. Britain remains one of the least xenophobic or racist countries in Europe despite the best efforts of sad, bitter losers to persuade us otherwise.
Declaring that Italy can no longer serve as “Europe’s refugee camp,” newly installed interior minister Matteo Salvini pledged on Sunday to press EU officials for asylum law reform that allows stricter controls on illegal immigration.
Edit - and of course while being wheeled into surgery having been shot, in a condition where 80% of men his age would have been dead already, he looked round at the theatre team, raised his mask and said, 'I sure hope you guys are Republicans.' (Ironically the lead surgeon was in fact a very liberal and politically active Democrat, but replied without missing a beat, 'Today, we're all Republicans Mr President!')
Won't the Lords' amendment if successful only require the government to say what steps it has taken to negotiate continued participation in "a" customs union? (Source.)
How would Tory and Kipper PBers rank the following three issues by importance, disregarding relative likelihoods and any interdependencies?
• a) Full Brexit (out of SM, CU, FOM)
• b) Peace in Ireland (no return to violent Troubles in NI)
• c) Uninterrupted food supplies (no food shortages affecting more than 100,000 people)
So I am asking for example would you prefer full Brexit with violence in NI or (for example) BINO with peace in NI, and whether full Brexit would be "worth" (for example) supermarket shelves going bare of food for a fortnight in a few remote areas of Britain, causing (for example) less than 10 deaths of people who were already weakened by health problems.
a b c
b more important than c because the number of deaths could be much higher than in your stated example. a before b would probably not apply if I lived in NI.
Thank you for your honest reply here. The reason I am interested is that I believe your position is probably widespread among Conservative-Leave and UKIP voters, while being unutterable by the Conservative leadership because it would mean that the DUP would instantly withdraw its confidence and because mainstream politicians don't talk that way in public about British lives.
You fell in happily behind a campaign of xenophobic lies. It’s a bit late to worry about hurt feelings.
Ah, the second of your two approaches to debating Leavers.
Don’t play the victim. You’ve played a personal part in debasing the nation’s polity and in normalising xenophobia. I’m sure it’s all worth it for you for Brexit. But don’t expect any respect from those who don’t share your mad obsession while you remain completely unrepentant about the damage you have done.
I don't accept that Vote Leave or I did either. You're the one with a mass obsession here.
Of course Vote Leave (aided by you) did. You weren’t reminding voters about the number of Turks as part of a geography refresher service. You wanted to frighten voters into imagining that millions of Muslims were about to descend on Britain. You were successful. The country is seeing the consequences now, with the normalisation of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. This is your work.
Bullshit. We pointed out that Turkey had a membership application underway, supported by our government, and this would mean more uncontrollable immigration. You and I both know what's behind anti-Semitism and it isn't Brexit.
Ducking my point completely because it is unanswerable. You know full well there was no prospect in the foreseeable future of Turks having a right to come to Britain. But you chose to frighten people into thinking they would. Why? Because you wanted to stir up their fear of foreigners, Muslims at that. It worked. And now xenophobia is part of British politics. Your pick-n-mix racism is part of the mainstream now.
Of course there was such a prospect, during the accession period. You seem oddly obsessed with their religion. Britain remains one of the least xenophobic or racist countries in Europe despite the best efforts of sad, bitter losers to persuade us otherwise.
The only person you’re deluding is yourself. Turkey wasn’t joining the EU any time soon and certainly not in its form in 2016. But Vote Leave wanted to frighten the public. They and you succeeded. If you don’t think the Turks’ religion was relevant to the choice of country Vote Leave alighted on, I have a bridge to sell you.
You’ve helped debase this country in pursuit of your mad obsession. It will be a long way back from the damage Brexit is doing. But I’m sure you think it was all worth it, just so you can indulge your hatred of the EU.
I think May will scrape through this vote helped by the DUP and a few Labour Leave rebels but we will probably end up in something similar to a Customs Union anyway to resolve the Irish border issue even if we are still able to do our own trade deals (if we are not in a global trade war by then).
However the fact Corbyn wants to stay in a Customs Union while still leaving the Single Market and the EU makes this vote May's biggest obstacle to overcome pre Brexit
Voting against your own party's manifesto does seem like a deselection issue.
Deselection would be too wimpy. Remove the whip, expel them from the party, tell them to go and sit on the opposition benches, and watch what happens.
You fell in happily behind a campaign of xenophobic lies. It’s a bit late to worry about hurt feelings.
Ah, the second of your two approaches to debating Leavers.
Don’t play the victim. You’ve played a personal part in debasing the nation’s polity and in normalising xenophobia. I’m sure it’s all worth it for you for Brexit. But don’t expect any respect from those who don’t share your mad obsession while you remain completely unrepentant about the damage you have done.
I don't accept that Vote Leave or I did either. You're the one with a mass obsession here.
Of course Vote Leave (aided by you) did. You weren’t reminding voters about the number of Turks as part of a geography refresher service. You wanted to frighten voters into imagining that millions of Muslims were about to descend on Britain. You were successful. The country is seeing the consequences now, with the normalisation of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. This is your work.
Bullshit. We pointed out that Turkey had a membership application underway, supported by our government, and this would mean more uncontrollable immigration. You and I both know what's behind anti-Semitism and it isn't Brexit.
Ducking my point completely because it is unanswerable. You know full well there was no prospect in the foreseeable future of Turks having a right to come to Britain. But you chose to frighten people into thinking they would. Why? Because you wanted to stir up their fear of foreigners, Muslims at that. It worked. And now xenophobia is part of British politics. Your pick-n-mix racism is part of the mainstream now.
Of course there was such a prospect, during the accession period. You seem oddly obsessed with their religion. Britain remains one of the least xenophobic or racist countries in Europe despite the best efforts of sad, bitter losers to persuade us otherwise.
The only person you’re deluding is yourself. Turkey wasn’t joining the EU any time soon and certainly not in its form in 2016. But Vote Leave wanted to frighten the public. They and you succeeded. If you don’t think the Turks’ religion was relevant to the choice of country Vote Leave alighted on, I have a bridge to sell you.
You’ve helped debase this country in pursuit of your mad obsession. It will be a long way back from the damage Brexit is doing. But I’m sure you think it was all worth it, just so you can indulge your hatred of the EU.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
George W Bush, Charles Kennedy, Berlusconi, Reagan, Bill Clinton, William Hague
I wouldn't say Kennedy or Hague were successful in the terms I am thinking of, although it's debatable I suppose. I also wasn't aware of George W's and Berlusconi's senses of humour, but I grant Reagan and maybe Clinton.
Kennedy got the highest number of Liberal MPs since 1923 when he led the party at the 2005 general election. Hague was less successful admittedly but still led his party.
Bush and Berlusconi were always making quips, though Berlusconi's could be rather smutty, we agree on Reagan and Clinton
Thorpe definitely seems guilty if this portrayal is accurate to me.
I don't think anyone now disputes that. You don't embezzle £20,000 from party funds and pass it on to gangsters in order to buy a few letters off a blackmailer.
General opinion seems to be he made a wise choice of counsel.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
George W Bush, Charles Kennedy, Berlusconi, Reagan, Bill Clinton, William Hague
I wouldn't say Kennedy or Hague were successful in the terms I am thinking of, although it's debatable I suppose. I also wasn't aware of George W's and Berlusconi's senses of humour, but I grant Reagan and maybe Clinton.
Kennedy got the highest number of Liberal MPs since 1923 when he led the party at the 2005 general election. Hague was less successful admittedly but still led his party.
Bush and Berlusconi were always making quips, though Berlusconi's could be rather smutty, we agree on Reagan and Clinton
Disraeli.
Pitt the Elder:
'As to the crime of being a young man, I shall attempt neither to palliate nor deny it, but content myself with saying that I trust I shall be numbered among those whose follies cease with their youth and not those who are ignorant in spite of experience.'
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Thorpe definitely seems guilty if this portrayal is accurate to me.
I don't think anyone now disputes that. You don't embezzle £20,000 from party funds and pass it on to gangsters in order to buy a few letters off a blackmailer.
General opinion seems to be he made a wise choice of counsel.
Leading counsel for the Defence was Mr. Justice Cantley.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
George W Bush, Charles Kennedy, Berlusconi, Reagan, Bill Clinton, William Hague
I wouldn't say Kennedy or Hague were successful in the terms I am thinking of, although it's debatable I suppose. I also wasn't aware of George W's and Berlusconi's senses of humour, but I grant Reagan and maybe Clinton.
Kennedy got the highest number of Liberal MPs since 1923 when he led the party at the 2005 general election. Hague was less successful admittedly but still led his party.
Bush and Berlusconi were always making quips, though Berlusconi's could be rather smutty, we agree on Reagan and Clinton
Interesting photo of William Rees-Mogg, Jacob's father, as a student at the Oxford Union with Jeremy Thorpe at the beginning of the Thorpe documentary on BBC4
Thorpe definitely seems guilty if this portrayal is accurate to me.
I don't think anyone now disputes that. You don't embezzle £20,000 from party funds and pass it on to gangsters in order to buy a few letters off a blackmailer.
General opinion seems to be he made a wise choice of counsel.
Leading counsel for the Defence was Mr. Justice Cantley.
Thorpe definitely seems guilty if this portrayal is accurate to me.
I don't think anyone now disputes that. You don't embezzle £20,000 from party funds and pass it on to gangsters in order to buy a few letters off a blackmailer.
General opinion seems to be he made a wise choice of counsel.
Given they had so few MPs, the old Liberal Party in the 70s really was a den of fraudsters (Bessell), paedophiles (Cyril Smith & Clement Freud), and attempted murderers (Thorpe).
Out of ~ 10 MPs, 4 of them were serious wrong uns.
It is a remarkable record. If you picked 10 people at random, the chance that the group includes a fraudster, two paedophiles and an attempted murderer is tiny.
If you want maximum security, why not simply print out your private keys?
You have to trust both your printer, and the computer that's attached to the printer. I don't think there's any device in my life I trust less than my printer.
Interesting photo of William Rees-Mogg, Jacob's father, as a student at the Oxford Union with Jeremy Thorpe at the beginning of the Thorpe documentary on BBC4
I love the coverage of the 1964 election.
"Mr. Thorpe, you fought a very gay campaign.". "Well, I think politics needs more gaiety."
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
“The UK *will* be in *the* Customs Union.”
There’s no way you can possibly know that, and the UK Government would collapse if it was. Even the EU know this, and have put their case that it extends just to NI alone. The amendment wasn’t even for that from the Lords: it was for a position statement on ‘a’ (i.e. a form of a) Customs Union, and no one expects full membership to fly.
This is just yet another example of your ultra-Euphile confirmation bias, without the confirmation, masquerading as objective analysis. Your raison d’etre on this site.
Confirmation bias, eh? That hardly narrows the field on an internet forum. It so happens I have a decent track record so far on the narrow subject of predicting Brexit outcomes. I have no idea who will be the next conservative leader for instance. Others on this forum have a much better handle on that than I do. Back to Brexit, these were my predictions that I believe I got right:
Immediately after referendum 1. The EU would be uninterested in cutting a good deal with us. Germans want to sell us cars argument would cut no ice. They would not be interested in a deal that didn't include close EU supervision. I also thought they would want large continuing payments, although that part is still to be validated 2. Third countries would not be in a hurry to sign trade deals and would want to recast existing EU arrangements more in their favour. The UK would need the help of the EU in rolling over third country agreements (partly validated so far) 3. There would be no economic meltdown but there would be a major political mess. 4. There would be a deal. We wouldn't walk away. Validated up to the interim agreement in December last year.
At time of calling Article 50 1. The EU would salami slice the negotiations through staging, so we would agree several demands at each stage. Partly validated so far. 2. We would agree payments in tens of billions of euros as part of the withdrawal agreement without getting a trade deal in return. That would come after Brexit. Validated by the interim agreement. 3.The primary concern of UK negotiators is to maintain the status quo of arrangements and benefits.
And two predictions I didn't get right at the time of the referendum: 1. The WTO negotiations would be as difficult as the EU ones. 2. Brexit would have minimal effect on levels of immigration.
Interesting photo of William Rees-Mogg, Jacob's father, as a student at the Oxford Union with Jeremy Thorpe at the beginning of the Thorpe documentary on BBC4
I love the coverage of the 1964 election.
"Mr. Thorpe, you fought a very gay campaign.". "Well, I think politics needs more gaiety."
Yes, totally different era, homosexuality still illegal at that time hence Thorpe was so secretive about it
Still trying to make it back from Headingly. God our rail services are shit.
Would May really pile up all these votes on the same day if she was not really confident of winning them? Would seem tactically unwise.
The UK will be in the customs Union. The only question is whether the realisation hits before or after Brexit date. Reality will impose itself sooner or later. I presume Theresa May wants it to be later.
“The
This is just yet another example of your ultra-Euphile confirmation bias, without the confirmation, masquerading as objective analysis. Your raison d’etre on this site.
Confirmation bias, eh? That hardly narrows the field on an internet forum. It so happens I have a decent track record so far on the narrow subject of predicting Brexit outcomes. I have no idea who will be the next conservative leader for instance. Others on this forum have a much better handle on that than I do. Back to Brexit, these were my predictions that I believe I got right:
Immediately after referendum 1. The EU would be uninterested in cutting a good deal with us. Germans want to sell us cars argument would cut no ice. They would not be interested in a deal that didn't include close EU supervision. I also thought they would want large continuing payments, although that part is still to be validated 2. Third countries would not be in a hurry to sign trade deals and would want to recast existing EU arrangements more in their favour. The UK would need the help of the EU in rolling over third country agreements (partly validated so far) 3. There would be no economic meltdown but there would be a major political mess. 4. There would be a deal. We wouldn't walk away. Validated up to the interim agreement in December last year.
At time of calling Article 50 1. The EU would salami slice the negotiations through staging, so we would agree several demands at each stage. Partly validated so far. 2. We would agree payments in tens of billions of euros as part of the withdrawal agreement without getting a trade deal in return. That would come after Brexit. Validated by the interim agreement. 3.The primary concern of UK negotiators is to maintain the status quo of arrangements and benefits.
And two predictions I didn't get right at the time of the referendum: 1. The WTO negotiations would be as difficult as the EU ones. 2. Brexit would have minimal effect on levels of immigration.
You have an atrocious record on predicting Brexit outcomes. You trying tortured logic to fit your oblong pegs into very round holes to pretend you don’t doesn’t convince anyone.
It does - amusingly - show your confirmation bias beautifully, however.
Hello PBer's. I have been a lurker for a long time so I feel that I know all of your online foibles and you know nothing about me. So on the off chance that you will allow myself into your online community, I think I should say a few words about moi.
So lets start with the issue du jour, Brexit.
I watched a posh, suited and booted middle class man stand up and say that unless I voted his way, hordes of brown skinned people would flood the UK and that this would be bad. This leader of the campaign, also used some very emotive terms, such as they all lived in the jungle and they would create a jungle in the UK. Obviously the link he was making was animals live in the jungle. So his message was vote my way or brown skinned animals are going to flood in to the UK. There was no way I could vote for this overtly racist campaign and I am surprised that any other person could, let alone take the high ground and shout "all leavers are racists, xenophobes." So I voted leave, because the remain campaign was disgraceful.
PS maybe a little provocative for a first post.
Welcome.
I don’t think either the Leave or Remain covered themselves in glory, and a number of us said so at the time. Still, we all had to pick a side and do what we thought was right.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
Quite a lot of politicians seem to have decent senses of humour, however fewer have the talent or good will (toward them) to indulge in it while they are in the front rank of politics, except perhaps once they are at the pinnacle, and can afford a little laxity. What jokes they can get away with will be different while in office I think (Tories - one time or not - on here have joked about eating babies, and I doubt many MPs would get away with that). It's just too easy for them to be attacked when they make a joke, whether it was a decent one or not, as someone will get self righteously angry about it, or pretend to be angry about it at least.
My limited experience of politicians, far below the level of MP, is both that they find it easier to get along with political opponents, and take or make jokes at their own political expense, than their partisan supporters do. It's the anoraks who cannot take it.
Hello PBer's. I have been a lurker for a long time so I feel that I know all of your online foibles and you know nothing about me. So on the off chance that you will allow myself into your online community, I think I should say a few words about moi.
So lets start with the issue du jour, Brexit.
I watched a posh, suited and booted middle class man stand up and say that unless I voted his way, hordes of brown skinned people would flood the UK and that this would be bad. This leader of the campaign, also used some very emotive terms, such as they all lived in the jungle and they would create a jungle in the UK. Obviously the link he was making was animals live in the jungle. So his message was vote my way or brown skinned animals are going to flood in to the UK. There was no way I could vote for this overtly racist campaign and I am surprised that any other person could, let alone take the high ground and shout "all leavers are racists, xenophobes." So I voted leave, because the remain campaign was disgraceful.
PS maybe a little provocative for a first post.
Welcome.
I don’t think either the Leave or Remain covered themselves in glory, and a number of us said so at the time. Still, we all had to pick a side and do what we thought was right.
Yes, rightly or wrongly. I'm not convinced I chose rightly, in terms of assessing the likelihood of the risks, but it was never easy. I credit PB for ensuring my vote, as otherwise I surely would have allowed natural caution to lead toward the status quo, but could not face lying about that day in day out.
More baffling is the idea, usually only pronounced by childishly obsessive self important fools with terrifyingly inept logic, that terrible aspects of a campaign somehow created the things they disliked about what they think it all says about society - if the underlying causes and beliefs, wrong or not, hateful or not, were not there, such things would not have had any effect. Whatever the outcome had been society would have included all the good and bad bits. Even an argument the result released certain things doesn't mean what was there, good and bad, was not there to begin with. And it prevents any solution, from any party, when starting from such an idiotic position based on bitterness and infantile hatred that such things, such concerns, essentially did not exist, or that everyone lost their moral compass as a result of the vote. That's no more true than us all turning communist if Corbyn becomes PM.
And of course it dampens all our senses of humour as well.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
George W Bush, Charles Kennedy, Berlusconi, Reagan, Bill Clinton, William Hague
I wouldn't say Kennedy or Hague were successful in the terms I am thinking of, although it's debatable I suppose. I also wasn't aware of George W's and Berlusconi's senses of humour, but I grant Reagan and maybe Clinton.
Kennedy got the highest number of Liberal MPs since 1923 when he led the party at the 2005 general election. Hague was less successful admittedly but still led his party.
Bush and Berlusconi were always making quips, though Berlusconi's could be rather smutty, we agree on Reagan and Clinton
Interesting photo of William Rees-Mogg, Jacob's father, as a student at the Oxford Union with Jeremy Thorpe at the beginning of the Thorpe documentary on BBC4
I love the coverage of the 1964 election.
"Mr. Thorpe, you fought a very gay campaign.". "Well, I think politics needs more gaiety."
Yes, totally different era, homosexuality still illegal at that time hence Thorpe was so secretive about it
Like Oscar Wilde, he liked to "feast with panthers."
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
Blair, Cameron, Major all had self-deprecated humour at times. Blair and Cameron especially were adept at using it when appropriate at eg PMQs etc.
Its a handy skill for a politician to have to deflect something that could be serious into something that can be laughed off.
Whatever the outcome had been society would have included all the good and bad bits. Even an argument the result released certain things doesn't mean what was there, good and bad, was not there to begin with. And it prevents any solution, from any party, when starting from such an idiotic position based on bitterness and infantile hatred that such things, such concerns, essentially did not exist, or that everyone lost their moral compass as a result of the vote. That's no more true than us all turning communist if Corbyn becomes PM.
Problems arise with a campaign when starting from such an idiotic position based on bitterness and infantile hatred
The indyref in Scotland, trumpeted as a festival of joy by Yes voters, to this day breeds rancour and hatred for those that voted No, with approval from those in power at Holyrood
To argue that wasn't unleashed as a result of the campaign in infantile.
Brexit shows that the campaign unleashes unpleasant forces, whichever side wins
Interesting photo of William Rees-Mogg, Jacob's father, as a student at the Oxford Union with Jeremy Thorpe at the beginning of the Thorpe documentary on BBC4
I love the coverage of the 1964 election.
"Mr. Thorpe, you fought a very gay campaign.". "Well, I think politics needs more gaiety."
Yes, totally different era, homosexuality still illegal at that time hence Thorpe was so secretive about it
Like Oscar Wilde, he liked to "feast with panthers."
And yet the (quite powerful) final conversation between Thorpe and Carman implied that Thorpe loved Scott, 'the best of them', because he was a pussy cat.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
Quite a lot of politicians seem to have decent senses of humour, however fewer have the talent or good will (toward them) to indulge in it while they are in the front rank of politics, except perhaps once they are at the pinnacle, and can afford a little laxity. What jokes they can get away with will be different while in office I think (Tories - one time or not - on here have joked about eating babies, and I doubt many MPs would get away with that). It's just too easy for them to be attacked when they make a joke, whether it was a decent one or not, as someone will get self righteously angry about it, or pretend to be angry about it at least.
My limited experience of politicians, far below the level of MP, is both that they find it easier to get along with political opponents, and take or make jokes at their own political expense, than their partisan supporters do. It's the anoraks who cannot take it.
Politicians tend to have thick skins, so they can both dish it out and take it.
Thorpe, Disraeli, Churchill, Kennedy, Lloyd-George, Wilson, all enjoyed a joke.
I agree that getting away with jokes is harder now, due to the rise of the professionally offended.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
Quite a lot of politicians seem to have decent senses of humour, however fewer have the talent or good will (toward them) to indulge in it while they are in the front rank of politics, except perhaps once they are at the pinnacle, and can afford a little laxity. What jokes they can get away with will be different while in office I think (Tories - one time or not - on here have joked about eating babies, and I doubt many MPs would get away with that). It's just too easy for them to be attacked when they make a joke, whether it was a decent one or not, as someone will get self righteously angry about it, or pretend to be angry about it at least.
My limited experience of politicians, far below the level of MP, is both that they find it easier to get along with political opponents, and take or make jokes at their own political expense, than their partisan supporters do. It's the anoraks who cannot take it.
Politicians tend to have thick skins, so they can both dish it out and take it.
Thorpe, Disraeli, Churchill, Kennedy, Lloyd-George, Wilson, all enjoyed a joke.
I agree that getting away with jokes is harder now, due to the rise of the professionally offended.
I just worked out why Tracey Ullman was trending, apparently Corbyn’s supporters think that comedians and impressionists shouldn’t be allowed to lampoon him and his ‘friends’. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcPGsscVmI
It made me laugh.
Never trust anyone in politics who doesn’t have a sense of humour.
Successful politicians rarely have a sense of humour. If they don't take themselves very seriously no-one else will. Maybe a party trick. Can anyone name a successful politician with a sense of humour?
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
Quite a lot of politicians seem to have decent senses of humour, however fewer have the talent or good will (toward them) to indulge in it while they are in the front rank of politics, except perhaps once they are at the pinnacle, and can afford a little laxity. What jokes they can get away with will be different while in office I think (Tories - one time or not - on here have joked about eating babies, and I doubt many MPs would get away with that). It's just too easy for them to be attacked when they make a joke, whether it was a decent one or not, as someone will get self righteously angry about it, or pretend to be angry about it at least.
My limited experience of politicians, far below the level of MP, is both that they find it easier to get along with political opponents, and take or make jokes at their own political expense, than their partisan supporters do. It's the anoraks who cannot take it.
Politicians tend to have thick skins, so they can both dish it out and take it.
Thorpe, Disraeli, Churchill, Kennedy, Lloyd-George, Wilson, all enjoyed a joke.
I agree that getting away with jokes is harder now, due to the rise of the professionally offended.
The professionally offended are a scourge on our discourse. Tw@tter is the worst for it by encouraging and amplifying it.
Confirmation bias, eh? That hardly narrows the field on an internet forum. It so happens I have a decent track record so far on the narrow subject of predicting Brexit outcomes. I have no idea who will be the next conservative leader for instance. Others on this forum have a much better handle on that than I do. Back to Brexit, these were my predictions that I believe I got right:
Immediately after referendum 1. The EU would be uninterested in cutting a good deal with us. Germans want to sell us cars argument would cut no ice. They would not be interested in a deal that didn't include close EU supervision. I also thought they would want large continuing payments, although that part is still to be validated 2. Third countries would not be in a hurry to sign trade deals and would want to recast existing EU arrangements more in their favour. The UK would need the help of the EU in rolling over third country agreements (partly validated so far) 3. There would be no economic meltdown but there would be a major political mess. 4. There would be a deal. We wouldn't walk away. Validated up to the interim agreement in December last year.
At time of calling Article 50 1. The EU would salami slice the negotiations through staging, so we would agree several demands at each stage. Partly validated so far. 2. We would agree payments in tens of billions of euros as part of the withdrawal agreement without getting a trade deal in return. That would come after Brexit. Validated by the interim agreement. 3.The primary concern of UK negotiators is to maintain the status quo of arrangements and benefits.
And two predictions I didn't get right at the time of the referendum: 1. The WTO negotiations would be as difficult as the EU ones. 2. Brexit would have minimal effect on levels of immigration.
I think one thing you did get wrong was in thinking the eventual outcome would be Canada Plus. The negotiations have successfully turned any meaningful Brexit at all into an existential issue for the UK.
Thorpe definitely seems guilty if this portrayal is accurate to me.
I don't think anyone now disputes that. You don't embezzle £20,000 from party funds and pass it on to gangsters in order to buy a few letters off a blackmailer.
General opinion seems to be he made a wise choice of counsel.
And judge. I was already aware of it from the parody by Peter Cook but seeing the recreation of the actual directions to he jury was quite astonishing.
After finding the source of the much complained about conspiracy story about Baddiel I discover the original tweet seems to be a complaint that Tracey's show (the bit being complained about) was so bad and biased it was like something written by Baddiel. In fairness this actually requires looking for the context and not assuming the worst much like the recent incident where many on PB were rushing to defend a Labour member accused of misogyny regarding Emily Thornberry.
Just can't figure out why there wasn't the same rush to try and discover the context here....
How does this obviously biased hack hold down a job as a political editor?
Obviously, if the UK does not impose border checks there won't be ANY delays at Dover, Holyhead or the Channel Tunnel because EU border checks are not actually conducted at the UK border. Muppet.
Comments
Labour has a free hand on this point.
"We didn't get Canada++, or customs partnership. But, they won't charge us triple for essential medicines because they need our business"
While not accepting that PIllar 43 depicted any constellations, the late German archaeologist Klaus Schmidt that Gobekli Tepe nonetheless thought that it dates from approximately 9600 BC.
Now, get this - what date does Plato (the Greek, not the ex-PBer!) postulate as the date for the destruction of Atlantis, his name for the originator civilisation?
9600BC!!
These are political not legal problems and the EU and the UK will find a way to trade. It will just be on worse terms for the UK than if the UK were staying in the EU. I do wish this kind of rubbish hyperbole were left to one side, as bad as claiming the EU is like the USSR.
Good evening, everybody.
That applies to more than just politics.
But once we leave the EU, we won't be able to get selenium any more, and that means...
Hang on. Is that the line? Losing track at the moment.
I have been a lurker for a long time so I feel that I know all of your online foibles and you know nothing about me. So on the off chance that you will allow myself into your online community, I think I should say a few words about moi.
So lets start with the issue du jour, Brexit.
I watched a posh, suited and booted middle class man stand up and say that unless I voted his way, hordes of brown skinned people would flood the UK and that this would be bad. This leader of the campaign, also used some very emotive terms, such as they all lived in the jungle and they would create a jungle in the UK. Obviously the link he was making was animals live in the jungle. So his message was vote my way or brown skinned animals are going to flood in to the UK.
There was no way I could vote for this overtly racist campaign and I am surprised that any other person could, let alone take the high ground and shout "all leavers are racists, xenophobes."
So I voted leave, because the remain campaign was disgraceful.
PS maybe a little provocative for a first post.
Edit. I can think of one. Alex Salmond.
Given the very thin-skinned reaction to the Corbyn sketch (including the fake allegation that it was written by David Baddiel) I’m sure Ms Ullman will be continuing the character for the next few weeks -most likely accompanied again by his friend Gerry.
Edit. Add Berlusconi.
I’m not sure about Margaret Thatcher, Ted Heath or Gordon Brown.
Alex Salmond was totally incapable of laughing at jokes at his expense or that of the SNP, which is the bit that’s most important.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPu1UIBkBc
Bush and Berlusconi were always making quips, though Berlusconi's could be rather smutty, we agree on Reagan and Clinton
There’s no way you can possibly know that, and the UK Government would collapse if it was. Even the EU know this, and have put their case that it extends just to NI alone. The amendment wasn’t even for that from the Lords: it was for a position statement on ‘a’ (i.e. a form of a) Customs Union, and no one expects full membership to fly.
This is just yet another example of your ultra-Euphile confirmation bias, without the confirmation, masquerading as objective analysis. Your raison d’etre on this site.
Having a sense of humour doesn’t mean choosing to play the clown, or not. It’s about a self awareness that recognises the absurdities of life, and politics, in yourself as much as others, which helps you empathise with others, and them with you.
I’d say it’s part of what makes both bearable, and having one is a bigger enabler of a successful political career than an inhibitor.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/03/italy-can-no-longer-serve-europes-refugee-camp-says-matteo-salvini/
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=43297
(The whole speech is actually quite funny.)
Edit - and of course while being wheeled into surgery having been shot, in a condition where 80% of men his age would have been dead already, he looked round at the theatre team, raised his mask and said, 'I sure hope you guys are Republicans.' (Ironically the lead surgeon was in fact a very liberal and politically active Democrat, but replied without missing a beat, 'Today, we're all Republicans Mr President!')
You’ve helped debase this country in pursuit of your mad obsession. It will be a long way back from the damage Brexit is doing. But I’m sure you think it was all worth it, just so you can indulge your hatred of the EU.
General opinion seems to be he made a wise choice of counsel.
'As to the crime of being a young man, I shall attempt neither to palliate nor deny it, but content myself with saying that I trust I shall be numbered among those whose follies cease with their youth and not those who are ignorant in spite of experience.'
Good night.
Out of ~ 10 MPs, 4 of them were serious wrong uns.
It is a remarkable record. If you picked 10 people at random, the chance that the group includes a fraudster, two paedophiles and an attempted murderer is tiny.
"Mr. Thorpe, you fought a very gay campaign.". "Well, I think politics needs more gaiety."
Immediately after referendum
1. The EU would be uninterested in cutting a good deal with us. Germans want to sell us cars argument would cut no ice. They would not be interested in a deal that didn't include close EU supervision. I also thought they would want large continuing payments, although that part is still to be validated
2. Third countries would not be in a hurry to sign trade deals and would want to recast existing EU arrangements more in their favour. The UK would need the help of the EU in rolling over third country agreements (partly validated so far)
3. There would be no economic meltdown but there would be a major political mess.
4. There would be a deal. We wouldn't walk away. Validated up to the interim agreement in December last year.
At time of calling Article 50
1. The EU would salami slice the negotiations through staging, so we would agree several demands at each stage. Partly validated so far.
2. We would agree payments in tens of billions of euros as part of the withdrawal agreement without getting a trade deal in return. That would come after Brexit. Validated by the interim agreement.
3.The primary concern of UK negotiators is to maintain the status quo of arrangements and benefits.
And two predictions I didn't get right at the time of the referendum:
1. The WTO negotiations would be as difficult as the EU ones.
2. Brexit would have minimal effect on levels of immigration.
It does - amusingly - show your confirmation bias beautifully, however.
I don’t think either the Leave or Remain covered themselves in glory, and a number of us said so at the time. Still, we all had to pick a side and do what we thought was right.
My limited experience of politicians, far below the level of MP, is both that they find it easier to get along with political opponents, and take or make jokes at their own political expense, than their partisan supporters do. It's the anoraks who cannot take it.
More baffling is the idea, usually only pronounced by childishly obsessive self important fools with terrifyingly inept logic, that terrible aspects of a campaign somehow created the things they disliked about what they think it all says about society - if the underlying causes and beliefs, wrong or not, hateful or not, were not there, such things would not have had any effect. Whatever the outcome had been society would have included all the good and bad bits. Even an argument the result released certain things doesn't mean what was there, good and bad, was not there to begin with. And it prevents any solution, from any party, when starting from such an idiotic position based on bitterness and infantile hatred that such things, such concerns, essentially did not exist, or that everyone lost their moral compass as a result of the vote. That's no more true than us all turning communist if Corbyn becomes PM.
And of course it dampens all our senses of humour as well.
Its a handy skill for a politician to have to deflect something that could be serious into something that can be laughed off.
The indyref in Scotland, trumpeted as a festival of joy by Yes voters, to this day breeds rancour and hatred for those that voted No, with approval from those in power at Holyrood
To argue that wasn't unleashed as a result of the campaign in infantile.
Brexit shows that the campaign unleashes unpleasant forces, whichever side wins
Perhaps Bosie was Oscar's Bunny.
Thorpe, Disraeli, Churchill, Kennedy, Lloyd-George, Wilson, all enjoyed a joke.
I agree that getting away with jokes is harder now, due to the rise of the professionally offended.
https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status/1002502139367837702
On gay marriage:
"I believe marriage is a sacred institution between a man and a woman... and a woman... and a woman."
On his fellow Republican candidates:
"The only man in the field with only one wife is the Mormon."
https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/1492490/#Comment_1492490
Just can't figure out why there wasn't the same rush to try and discover the context here....
Obviously, if the UK does not impose border checks there won't be ANY delays at Dover, Holyhead or the Channel Tunnel because EU border checks are not actually conducted at the UK border. Muppet.