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IIRC Birmingham in 1968 was Conservative 37, Liberal 3, Labour 0.rcs1000 said:
Lambeth had 57 Conservative Councillors to just 3 Labour ones.GIN1138 said:
Er.... Think your 25 days too late for April Fools.rcs1000 said:I expect a result similar to the 1968 London local elections, and have bet accordingly.
Staggering how times change, isn't it?
The Conservatives were probably at a NEV of 60% in 1968.0 -
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I don’t think Tories are trying to put up posters anywhere this time. I’d be cautious on relying on that as a proxy for support.
In my part of Newham I've seen posters for one of the Conservative candidates in my Ward (the names of the other two not even mentioned and nor is the name of the Conservative Mayoral candidate).
It's a specifically Vote Conservative poster with the picture and name of the individual. Why mention him and not the other two Conservative candidates ?
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I thought Cyclefree said there was a hearing today.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/25/jewish-community-leaders-accuse-jeremy-corbyn-shrugging-shoulders/Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/25/len-mccluskey-warns-labour-moderates-can-expect-held-account/
No doubt they have no intention on acting against anti semitism0 -
Read the linkYorkcity said:
I thought Cyclefree said there was a hearing today.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/25/jewish-community-leaders-accuse-jeremy-corbyn-shrugging-shoulders/Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/25/len-mccluskey-warns-labour-moderates-can-expect-held-account/
No doubt they have no intention on acting against anti semitism0 -
And in general.RoyalBlue said:
I don’t think Tories are trying to put up posters anywhere this time. I’d be cautious on relying on that as a proxy for support.timmo said:I think there are some.mispriced boroughs on Ladbrokes for next week.
Driving through Richmond and Kingston today there is a veritable rainforest of Orange diamonds..In Sutton there are hardly any.
Lib dems at even money in Richmond is stonking value.
NOC at 7/1 in Sutton is also great value as the 3 indeoendants in a ward where the largest incinerator in the south ofvEngland has been built look nailed on. The Sutton and Cheam side of the borough where Paul Scully increased his maj from 3k to 13k last June is looking very strong for the Tories. It will deoend on what happens in Car and Wallington side. If Lab can eek out 1 or 2 and there are a couple of split wards anything could happen.
You drive down a street of 50 houses. 25 on each side. You see 8 homes displaying Labour posters pepperpotted along the street. You conclude: wow, Labour own this street.
You completely overlook the 16 houses that are fully intending to vote Tory, and beat Labour 66%/33%.
Funnily enough, if those 8 x houses are clustered at one end you won’t draw quite the same conclusions. Your mind interpolates and fills in the blanks without you even realising.0 -
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
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Its the lib dem support posters im talking abtRoyalBlue said:
I don’t think Tories are trying to put up posters anywhere this time. I’d be cautious on relying on that as a proxy for support.timmo said:I think there are some.mispriced boroughs on Ladbrokes for next week.
Driving through Richmond and Kingston today there is a veritable rainforest of Orange diamonds..In Sutton there are hardly any.
Lib dems at even money in Richmond is stonking value.
NOC at 7/1 in Sutton is also great value as the 3 indeoendants in a ward where the largest incinerator in the south ofvEngland has been built look nailed on. The Sutton and Cheam side of the borough where Paul Scully increased his maj from 3k to 13k last June is looking very strong for the Tories. It will deoend on what happens in Car and Wallington side. If Lab can eek out 1 or 2 and there are a couple of split wards anything could happen.0 -
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.0 -
So on a trip to the supermarket I had a look to see if there was any British produce among the vegetables.
I was reassured to see it did not all lay unharvested in the fields but offered at least 10 types of potato, 7 of onions, 6 of carrots plus parsnips, celeriac, swede, cabbage, cauliflower, kale, beetroot, aspargus, leeks, cucumbers and no less than 9 varieties of British grown tomatoes. Plus at least a dozen types of British mushrooms. Doubtless there were other things as well which I've forgotten. Great mounds of it and much at reduced prices. A veritable cornucopia in fact.
But there were no turnips, of any origin.
MalcolmG would have been heartbroke - unless that is he is secretly cornering the turnip market.0 -
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
I can see why Ruth Smeeth is upset having been attacked in a question like that.0 -
Now its common knowledge that an English team won the European Cup in every year between 1977 and 1982.
But in each of those six years they beat the West German champions at some point in doing so.0 -
Taking 40 supporters looks like an attempt to lobby the tribunal. What evidence was there of any physical or verbal threat?Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.0 -
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
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To be honest Foxy , if that is their case that rk posted ,and there are no other allegations. They are undermining their arguments regarding ant -semitism.Foxy said:
Taking 40 supporters looks like an attempt to lobby the tribunal. What evidence was there of any physical or verbal threat?Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.0 -
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to followYorkcity said:
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.0 -
Potentially all in the translation. The common phrase in Arabic for the Islamic world as a whole is al ummat ulislamiya - most commonly translated as the Islamic Community. But ummah is also sometimes translated as nation.nunuone said:0 -
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to followYorkcity said:
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.0 -
Perhaps there are other allegations.Yorkcity said:
To be honest Foxy , if that is their case that rk posted ,and there are no other allegations. They are undermining their arguments regarding ant -semitism.Foxy said:
Taking 40 supporters looks like an attempt to lobby the tribunal. What evidence was there of any physical or verbal threat?Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
But I would have expected them to be widely reported.
I hope the inquiry considers it all fairly.0 -
Let’s be charitable for a moment. Let’s assume that they do want to do something about it. They’ll get Corbyn to write an article. They’ll say anti-semitism is a bad thing and down with this sort of thing in Labour and everywhere else. They may even discipline a few people. And they’ll hope that this will make it go away. Hey presto: problem solved.Floater said:
If only.
The problem is a deeper one, I think, and it stymies both their attempts to resolve the problem and, indeed, to understand why it has arisen and seems to have spread in recent years, why people are so open to saying anti-semitic things to Ms Thornberry and assuming she will agree with them.
The problem is that the particular strand of leftist ideology lrepresented by Corbyn is one which makes it almost inevitable that many of its proponents and followers end up using, believing and disseminating anti-semitic memes.
(To be cont’d)
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To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big wayYorkcity said:
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to followYorkcity said:
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.0 -
Surely the job of the inquiry is to be fair, consider the evidence etc.?Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Not to help the Labour party manage a media story.0 -
It comes from a mix of:-
- the unfairnesses of the capitalist system are down to the actions of rich individuals who oppress others (rather than any more systematic analysis of economies and how they operate and their interaction with power relations etc). This easily elides into a very old form of anti-semitic discourse that it is those with money or good with money who are the oppressive individuals. Such people were and are often seen as Jews. See, for instance, the infamous mural or some of the criticisms made by Naomi Klein of some of the posters used in the Occupy movements a few years ago.
- an anti-colonial stance and a view that Israel is a colonial implant of the West (ahistorical and totally ignorant of the need for self-determination and self-governance for a people, a cause usually embraced by the left when it applies to others). There is also mixed in a genuine - and in many ways admirable - concern for the Palestinians. But this is not essential. Wanting to do right by the Palestinians and criticising Israeli behaviour in the Occupied Territories does not and need not be anti-semitic. But too many supporters of the Palestinian cause have been unwilling to accept that some of those expressing outrage over Israeli behaviour are more motivated by a desire to get rid of Israel altogether & its Jewish inhabitants than helping Palestinians. It is very hard to see how wishing to get rid of Israel and its Jews can be anything other than anti-semitic.
- a belief that because Jews are white & Western (ignoring all the Jews who lived in countries like Iraq, Egypt etc for thousands of years) they are not victims but only oppressors.
- a belief that anti-semitism is only a fault of the far right (the Nazi Holocaust) coupled with an adamantine refusal to understand why centuries of persecution and an event as traumatic and evil as the Holocaust would affect how Jews see the world.
- some remains of the Soviet view of the Jewish question which was to deny their desire for nationhood and to view Russian Jews who valued their Jewishness as somehow traitors to the motherland/Soviet cause. (The Soviets largely ignored the very specific nature of Jewish suffering under German rule and its racist origin/genocidal outcome, preferring to see everyone as victims of German fascism.)
When that is your world view it is hard to understand that is this which is giving succour to anti-semites, ex-Nazis, BNP types and all sorts of people who hate or dislike Jews for all sorts of reasons. Harder still to challenge it.
If this world view is wrong because it leads to anti-semitism, well, what else has it got wrong? Is it worth anything at all?
So it’s back to saying that people must not use unkind words about Jews as if this was just a problem of linguistic etiquette and a bit of bad manners. That is why this will rumble on. If you don’t analyse the problem correctly, how can you resolve it effectively?
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Yes but the perception that Ruth Smeeth is the loser will be a big story in the context of the abuse received by her and othersrkrkrk said:
Surely the job of the inquiry is to be fair, consider the evidence etc.?Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Not to help the Labour party manage a media story.0 -
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big wayYorkcity said:
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to followYorkcity said:
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
Not other outside considerations.0 -
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You're certainly right about that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but the perception that Ruth Smeeth is the loser will be a big story in the context of the abuse received by her and othersrkrkrk said:
Surely the job of the inquiry is to be fair, consider the evidence etc.?Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Not to help the Labour party manage a media story.
But it's not the job of the inquiry to be thinking about that.0 -
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labourYorkcity said:
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big wayYorkcity said:
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to followYorkcity said:
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
Not other outside considerations.0 -
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What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labourYorkcity said:
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big wayYorkcity said:
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to followYorkcity said:
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
Not other outside considerations.
EDIT: I've just watched it. It was about on-line abuse.0 -
True , however so be it , if the man us wrongly accused.You do not make things correct by creating another victim.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labourYorkcity said:
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big wayYorkcity said:
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to followYorkcity said:
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
Not other outside considerations.0 -
Come the next election (hopefully many years hence) and presuming the current PM isn't leading the blue team on to the pitch (and it's also not a Brexit fanatic), who fancies campaigning against the wing-nut in chief and supporting the blues effort there?
Not sure where Derby is other than up there somewhere and presuming it's can't be that far past Milton Keynes.... I'm up for it!
If only to see if he keeps his twitter name and again pretends to be an MP even when he's been voted out....0 -
Barnesian
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed
.....................................................................................................................
If you missed the debate you missed the very essence of the anger by labour mps against anti semetic attitudes in labour. Ruth Smeeth, Luciana Berger, and John Mann with others provided a litany of abuse so much so that not only did it reduce me to tears, my wife who was not watching the debate at the start but was compelled to listen, sobbed too and we joined in with the across the house applause for their testimony
0 -
Basically, we've all been driven mad by Brexit,Trump, antisemitism, Windrush, the NHS, Syria, Israel, nerve agents and Facebook.
Time for a rest.0 -
We need the 1990s again.TwistedFireStopper said:Basically, we've all been driven mad by Brexit,Trump, antisemitism, Windrush, the NHS, Syria, Israel, nerve agents and Facebook.
Time for a rest.0 -
I go away shortly for a 14 day cruise to the Western Med amd Aegean and on return travel to the north of Scotland with my eldest son and his wife in from Vancouver to visit our relatives. So definitely going to have a protracted restTwistedFireStopper said:Basically, we've all been driven mad by Brexit,Trump, antisemitism, Windrush, the NHS, Syria, Israel, nerve agents and Facebook.
Time for a rest.0 -
Supported by members of the labour partyBarnesian said:
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labourYorkcity said:
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big wayYorkcity said:
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to followYorkcity said:
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
Not other outside considerations.
EDIT: I've just watched it. It was about on-line abuse.0 -
A time of affordable housing, no student tuition fees and trade surpluses.AndyJS said:
We need the 1990s again.TwistedFireStopper said:Basically, we've all been driven mad by Brexit,Trump, antisemitism, Windrush, the NHS, Syria, Israel, nerve agents and Facebook.
Time for a rest.0 -
A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.0 -
Between 1989 and 2001 it looked like the big ideological battles were over.another_richard said:
A time of affordable housing, no student tuition fees and trade surpluses.AndyJS said:
We need the 1990s again.TwistedFireStopper said:Basically, we've all been driven mad by Brexit,Trump, antisemitism, Windrush, the NHS, Syria, Israel, nerve agents and Facebook.
Time for a rest.0 -
The perpetrators of the on-line anti-semitic abuse need to be tracked down and brought to account.Big_G_NorthWales said:Barnesian
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed
.....................................................................................................................
If you missed the debate you missed the very essence of the anger by labour mps against anti semetic attitudes in labour. Ruth Smeeth, Luciana Berger, and John Mann with others provided a litany of abuse so much so that not only did it reduce me to tears, my wife who was not watching the debate at the start but was compelled to listen, sobbed too and we joined in with the across the house applause for their testimony
But from the video, her case against Mark Wadsworth looks weak. Perhaps there's more to it that will come out in the hearing. But if all she is complaining about is a Labour MP accusing of her of siding with the Telegraph against Corbyn she will lose her case and lose sympathy which is a pity.0 -
Just checking I've understood this correctly:Floater said:
1. DUP support for the government is dependent on NI being treated identically to the rest of the UK with respect to customs controls.
2. The UK is already committed to ensuring a frictionless border between the EU (specifically Eire) and NI.
3. Leaving the UK in the Customs Union (or similar) would satisfy 1. & 2. Leaving the just NI in a CU would only satisfy 2.
4. There is currently no other firm proposal for satisfying 1. & 2.apart from the UK remaining in the CU (or something very similar).
Have I missed something?0 -
0
-
Yeah, technically, sort of. The reality though is that it makes very little odds, because if the guy is found guilty, that's Labour proven to be antisemitic, whereas if he is found not guilty, that will be because Labour is antisemitic. I know you are a bit invested in this, but surely you see the funny side?Yorkcity said:
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.
Not other outside considerations.
0 -
No idea, I’m afraid. The MP in question fled the press conference in tears.Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last_ManAndyJS said:
Between 1989 and 2001 it looked like the big ideological battles were over.another_richard said:
A time of affordable housing, no student tuition fees and trade surpluses.AndyJS said:
We need the 1990s again.TwistedFireStopper said:Basically, we've all been driven mad by Brexit,Trump, antisemitism, Windrush, the NHS, Syria, Israel, nerve agents and Facebook.
Time for a rest.
One of the few people to take an opposite view, in the West that is, was Jimmy Goldsmith.0 -
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.0 -
Guilty then ?Cyclefree said:
No idea, I’m afraid. The MP in question fled the press conference in tears.Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.0 -
I've just listened to every word of her speech and she didn't mention members of the the labour party. She spoke of anti-semitic abuse.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Supported by members of the labour partyBarnesian said:
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labourYorkcity said:
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big wayYorkcity said:
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to followYorkcity said:
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
Not other outside considerations.
EDIT: I've just watched it. It was about on-line abuse.0 -
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.0 -
-
US healthcare is a business, and the purpose of a business is to legally and sustainably extract as much money as possible out of the customer. US healthcare is extremely good at this!another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.0 -
No. The person should be given a fair hearing. He should not be found guilty of whatever the charge is just because the victim is Ruth Smeeth. If the evidence stacks up, fine. But if it doesn’t then he should not be disciplined.Yorkcity said:
Guilty then ?Cyclefree said:
No idea, I’m afraid. The MP in question fled the press conference in tears.Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I don’t know what the charge is nor have I seen the evidence so can’t comment either way on what the outcome should be.
The trouble Labour is in is that they have handled the politics of it so badly that people will be looking at that rather than the legalities of the disciplinary process. Whatever the outcome it will likely land them in poo. It’s what often happens when you ignore a problem rather than dealing with it early and firmly.0 -
So are you suggesting labour members did no make anti semetic comments to her. Check out John Manns contribution to the same debateBarnesian said:
I've just listened to every word of her speech and she didn't mention members of the the labour party. She spoke of anti-semitic abuse.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Supported by members of the labour partyBarnesian said:
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labourYorkcity said:
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big wayYorkcity said:
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to followYorkcity said:
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
Not other outside considerations.
EDIT: I've just watched it. It was about on-line abuse.0 -
There seems to be a conflation of anger amongst Labour MP's about anti semitism, with more general anger about Momentum. To be taken seriously on the first issue they need to avoid this, and pick their battles carefully.Barnesian said:
The perpetrators of the on-line anti-semitic abuse need to be tracked down and brought to account.Big_G_NorthWales said:Barnesian
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed
.....................................................................................................................
If you missed the debate you missed the very essence of the anger by labour mps against anti semetic attitudes in labour. Ruth Smeeth, Luciana Berger, and John Mann with others provided a litany of abuse so much so that not only did it reduce me to tears, my wife who was not watching the debate at the start but was compelled to listen, sobbed too and we joined in with the across the house applause for their testimony
But from the video, her case against Mark Wadsworth looks weak. Perhaps there's more to it that will come out in the hearing. But if all she is complaining about is a Labour MP accusing of her of siding with the Telegraph against Corbyn she will lose her case and lose sympathy which is a pity.0 -
I agree completely and well explainedCyclefree said:
No. The person should be given a fair hearing. He should not be found guilty of whatever the charge is just because the victim is Ruth Smeeth. If the evidence stacks up, fine. But if it doesn’t then he should not be disciplined.Yorkcity said:
Guilty then ?Cyclefree said:
No idea, I’m afraid. The MP in question fled the press conference in tears.Yorkcity said:
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?Cyclefree said:
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.Yorkcity said:
Why what has happened today ?Floater said:Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I don’t know what the charge is nor have I seen the evidence so can’t comment either way on what the outcome should be.
The trouble Labour is in is that they have handled the politics of it so badly that people will be looking at that rather than the legalities of the disciplinary process. Whatever the outcome it will likely land them in poo. It’s what often happens when you ignore a problem rather than dealing with it early and firmly.0 -
Wouldn't Labour probably support such a position anyway if the government proposed it?Floater said:0 -
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.0 -
I'm simply saying she didn't mention members of the labour party in her speech.Big_G_NorthWales said:
So are you suggesting labour members did no make anti semetic comments to her. Check out John Manns contribution to the same debateBarnesian said:
I've just listened to every word of her speech and she didn't mention members of the the labour party. She spoke of anti-semitic abuse.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Supported by members of the labour partyBarnesian said:
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labourYorkcity said:
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.Big_G_NorthWales said:Yorkcity said:
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to followYorkcity said:
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.rkrkrk said:
You can make your own mind up.Yorkcity said:
Cheers is that ant -semitic then ?rkrkrk said:
There's a video clip of him accusing Ruth Smeeth of working hand in hand with the Telegraph to attack Jeremy Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aJzuLf1W0Yorkcity said:
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
Not other outside considerations.
EDIT: I've just watched it. It was about on-line abuse.
She was upset to be called out by Wadsworth for siding with the Telegraph against Corbyn and seems to have turned it into an anti-semitic attack. She weakens her case if she sees all political dispute as anti-semitism.0 -
Sigh. It's not to do with profits, it's to do with tort reform.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
The issue is that in order to prevent legal liability the US systems spends vast amounts on unnecessary Dx to reduce the risk of getting sued.0 -
That's a fair point. Given simple pursuasion hasn't worked, is it time to incentivise people to switch to a healthier diet and lifestyle through taxation and legislation? It appears to have worked for smoking and road safety for example.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.0 -
US States vary tremendously in terms of medical negligence costs, but healthcare costs do not match these.Charles said:
Sigh. It's not to do with profits, it's to do with tort reform.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
The issue is that in order to prevent legal liability the US systems spends vast amounts on unnecessary Dx to reduce the risk of getting sued.
Private companies charging what the market can bear however are ubiquitous.0 -
Maybe the government can tie it in to an ID card? No Waitrose organic veg or Soul Cycle membership unless you can prove who you are.Benpointer said:
That's a fair point. Given simple pursuasion hasn't worked, is it time to incentivise people to switch to a healthier diet and lifestyle through taxation and legislation? It appears to have worked for smoking and road safety for example.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.0 -
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.0 -
There is another factor about the USA model. Depending on how you define customer, it doesn't necessarily mean the people getting the coverage.Foxy said:
US healthcare is a business, and the purpose of a business is to legally and sustainably extract as much money as possible out of the customer. US healthcare is extremely good at this!another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Unlike say car insurance, where we all compare the meerkat and get to see all the options, the prices etc, in the US an organization employs a broker to block purchase insurance for its employees, and there is a massive disconnect between the healthcare provider writing the bill and the person (not the employee) forking out the money for the premium, which allows for price gouging with no real repercussion.0 -
I wouldn't put it past this government.TwistedFireStopper said:
Maybe the government can tie it in to an ID card? No Waitrose organic veg or Soul Cycle membership unless you can prove who you are.Benpointer said:
That's a fair point. Given simple pursuasion hasn't worked, is it time to incentivise people to switch to a healthier diet and lifestyle through taxation and legislation? It appears to have worked for smoking and road safety for example.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending. 0 -
-
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?0 -
-
Shaping up to be an interesting vote, though I dare say if the government wins it no doubt some other vote will be seen as just as terribly important and undermining to it the next week. And that not even getting into the Lords business.Scott_P said:0 -
So far so good, but also pretty useless.another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Who doesn't know the above already? who doesn't know that fat, sugar, salt, smoking, and laziness are bad for us?
What we need is health policy to make taking the unhealthy option the difficult one, and the healthy alternative the default option. The food business will scream blue murder.0 -
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?0 -
-
' The mother of a man who was shot dead outside his home believes he was killed as revenge for helping to convict a gang of rapists.
Abraham Badru was shot in the chest in Dalston, east London, on 25 March while speaking on the phone with a friend.
The 26-year-old received a bravery award in 2009 after he saved a girl from being gang-raped at a party, later giving evidence against her attackers. '
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-438943440 -
-
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.another_richard said:
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years. Just over 10 years ago they had about 400 or so, thus within 12 years they hope to have nearly quadrupled the number of outlets.0 -
If May doesn't take control of our borders it will lead to a Corbyn government. Leave voters are such a big part of her base that losing just 10% of them will make the difference. It is not like Remainers will come back to the Tories by staying in the CU.Scott_P said:0 -
Spot on. The food business screaming blue murder must be preferable to them committing blue murder which is effectively the current situation.Foxy said:
So far so good, but also pretty useless.another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Who doesn't know the above already? who doesn't know that fat, sugar, salt, smoking, and laziness are bad for us?
What we need is health policy to make taking the unhealthy option the difficult one, and the healthy alternative the default option. The food business will scream blue murder.
0 -
-
Nor are they cheap compared to cooking for yourself.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.another_richard said:
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
I wonder if the rise of grotty takeaways in urban areas is inversely proportional to the amount of kitchen space per person.0 -
-
I was on a cruise last year and went on an excursion with the founder of Dominos and his wife.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.another_richard said:
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years.0 -
Yeah I can't really get my head around that, a dominos pizza is more than £10. You can make one for pennies and even supermarket bought one is only £3.another_richard said:
Nor are they cheap compared to cooking for yourself.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.another_richard said:
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
I wonder if the rise of grotty takeaways in urban areas is inversely proportional to the amount of kitchen space per person.
If I had to guess it is that with KFC and dominos you can do those family bucket / family mega offer things, where for £15-20 you get mountains and mountains of crap with fizzy drink and dessert. So I guess if you are busy and tired and got 2-3 kids, £15 to feed everybody and you get it to your door in 15-20 mins is a more attractive offer.
Mrs U and myself much prefer to make our food, and if we go out it is to spend a lot on a really good restaurant.0 -
If International supply chains collapse May will lose more that 10%Elliot said:If May doesn't take control of our borders it will lead to a Corbyn government. Leave voters are such a big part of her base that losing just 10% of them will make the difference. It is not like Remainers will come back to the Tories by staying in the CU.
0 -
I'd like to see membership of gyms, health clubs etc made a tax deductible expense.Foxy said:
So far so good, but also pretty useless.another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Who doesn't know the above already? who doesn't know that fat, sugar, salt, smoking, and laziness are bad for us?
What we need is health policy to make taking the unhealthy option the difficult one, and the healthy alternative the default option. The food business will scream blue murder.
But I may have a vested interest in that 0 -
Is that with or without pineapple? Just asking.FrancisUrquhart said:
Yeah I can't really get my head around that, a dominos pizza is more than £10. You can make one for pennies and even supermarket bought one is only £3.another_richard said:
Nor are they cheap compared to cooking for yourself.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.another_richard said:
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
I wonder if the rise of grotty takeaways in urban areas is inversely proportional to the amount of kitchen space per person.0 -
If TSE had his way, there would be a pineapple on pizza tax making it at least £20....Benpointer said:
Is that with or without pineapple? Just asking.FrancisUrquhart said:
Yeah I can't really get my head around that, a dominos pizza is more than £10. You can make one for pennies and even supermarket bought one is only £3.another_richard said:
Nor are they cheap compared to cooking for yourself.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.another_richard said:
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
I wonder if the rise of grotty takeaways in urban areas is inversely proportional to the amount of kitchen space per person.0 -
Well it's clearly not just the leaving part which is putting them off, since a lot seem to have gone over to Labour, who are also Leavers and until not that long ago I'm pretty sure they were against the CU as well.Benpointer said:0 -
Now that would be cutting for him I'd think - I suspect if ever there was a president who yearned for the pomp and ceremony it would be him.Scott_P said:0 -
Didn't it used to be the case that companies could offset healthy stuff things like gym memberships for their employees? Is that still the case?another_richard said:
I'd like to see membership of gyms, health clubs etc made a tax deductible expense.Foxy said:
So far so good, but also pretty useless.another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Who doesn't know the above already? who doesn't know that fat, sugar, salt, smoking, and laziness are bad for us?
What we need is health policy to make taking the unhealthy option the difficult one, and the healthy alternative the default option. The food business will scream blue murder.
But I may have a vested interest in that0 -
I couldn't see the logic in that eitherBenpointer said:0 -
Did you ask him how he managed to forge a profitable business out an utterly sh*te product?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I was on a cruise last year and went on an excursion with the founder of Dominos and his wife.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.another_richard said:
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years.
(I know the answer - you'd be far too polite for that, and rightly so. But honestly, even every cheap frozen supermarket pizza is better than dominos IMO!)0 -
-
They really do have a distinctive taste of yuckiness. Five Guys or In n Out burgers I can understand, but popularity of Dominos is a mystery in such a crowded space (and actually a really easy food to make).Benpointer said:
Did you ask him how he managed to forge a profitable business out an utterly sh*te product?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I was on a cruise last year and went on an excursion with the founder of Dominos and his wife.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.another_richard said:
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years.
(I know the answer - you'd be far too polite for that, and rightly so. But honestly, even every cheap frozen supermarket pizza is better than dominos IMO!)0 -
Maybe that should be a pizza under pinapple tax, since the pinapple's probably the healthy part!FrancisUrquhart said:
If TSE had his way, there would be a pineapple on pizza tax making it at least £20....Benpointer said:
Is that with or without pineapple? Just asking.FrancisUrquhart said:
Yeah I can't really get my head around that, a dominos pizza is more than £10. You can make one for pennies and even supermarket bought one is only £3.another_richard said:
Nor are they cheap compared to cooking for yourself.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.another_richard said:
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
I wonder if the rise of grotty takeaways in urban areas is inversely proportional to the amount of kitchen space per person.0 -
In a US-Canadian comparison, the two countries have not dissimilar diets, etc, etc. The one has a fee-for-service healthcare system; the other has been 'socialised' since 1962 or earlier.Foxy said:
US States vary tremendously in terms of medical negligence costs, but healthcare costs do not match these.Charles said:
Sigh. It's not to do with profits, it's to do with tort reform.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
The issue is that in order to prevent legal liability the US systems spends vast amounts on unnecessary Dx to reduce the risk of getting sued.
Private companies charging what the market can bear however are ubiquitous.
Canadian lifespans for men and women are pretty good too, among the top 5-10 countries I think.0 -
The thing is, neither my wife or I like pizza, pineapple on top or not. They were a lovely unassuming coupleBenpointer said:
Did you ask him how he managed to forge a profitable business out an utterly sh*te product?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I was on a cruise last year and went on an excursion with the founder of Dominos and his wife.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.another_richard said:
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years.
(I know the answer - you'd be far too polite for that, and rightly so. But honestly, even every cheap frozen supermarket pizza is better than dominos IMO!)0 -
I like Dominos pizza. I know I don't exactly have a refined palette, but I don't get the antipathy people hold for its products. And as an occasional purchaser of cheap frozen pizza, Dominos is far superior.Benpointer said:
Did you ask him how he managed to forge a profitable business out an utterly sh*te product?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I was on a cruise last year and went on an excursion with the founder of Dominos and his wife.FrancisUrquhart said:
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.another_richard said:
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.Floater said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/majority-children-now-overweight-areas-official-data-reveals/another_richard said:
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.Foxy said:
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.another_richard said:
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.Benpointer said:
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.another_richard said:A nice graph showing health spending in OECD countries:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years.
(I know the answer - you'd be far too polite for that, and rightly so. But honestly, even every cheap frozen supermarket pizza is better than dominos IMO!)0
This discussion has been closed.