blockquote class="Quote" rel="RoyalBlue"> I don’t think Tories are trying to put up posters anywhere this time. I’d be cautious on relying on that as a proxy for support.
In my part of Newham I've seen posters for one of the Conservative candidates in my Ward (the names of the other two not even mentioned and nor is the name of the Conservative Mayoral candidate).
It's a specifically Vote Conservative poster with the picture and name of the individual. Why mention him and not the other two Conservative candidates ?
I think there are some.mispriced boroughs on Ladbrokes for next week. Driving through Richmond and Kingston today there is a veritable rainforest of Orange diamonds..In Sutton there are hardly any. Lib dems at even money in Richmond is stonking value. NOC at 7/1 in Sutton is also great value as the 3 indeoendants in a ward where the largest incinerator in the south ofvEngland has been built look nailed on. The Sutton and Cheam side of the borough where Paul Scully increased his maj from 3k to 13k last June is looking very strong for the Tories. It will deoend on what happens in Car and Wallington side. If Lab can eek out 1 or 2 and there are a couple of split wards anything could happen.
I don’t think Tories are trying to put up posters anywhere this time. I’d be cautious on relying on that as a proxy for support.
And in general.
You drive down a street of 50 houses. 25 on each side. You see 8 homes displaying Labour posters pepperpotted along the street. You conclude: wow, Labour own this street.
You completely overlook the 16 houses that are fully intending to vote Tory, and beat Labour 66%/33%.
Funnily enough, if those 8 x houses are clustered at one end you won’t draw quite the same conclusions. Your mind interpolates and fills in the blanks without you even realising.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
I think there are some.mispriced boroughs on Ladbrokes for next week. Driving through Richmond and Kingston today there is a veritable rainforest of Orange diamonds..In Sutton there are hardly any. Lib dems at even money in Richmond is stonking value. NOC at 7/1 in Sutton is also great value as the 3 indeoendants in a ward where the largest incinerator in the south ofvEngland has been built look nailed on. The Sutton and Cheam side of the borough where Paul Scully increased his maj from 3k to 13k last June is looking very strong for the Tories. It will deoend on what happens in Car and Wallington side. If Lab can eek out 1 or 2 and there are a couple of split wards anything could happen.
I don’t think Tories are trying to put up posters anywhere this time. I’d be cautious on relying on that as a proxy for support.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
So on a trip to the supermarket I had a look to see if there was any British produce among the vegetables.
I was reassured to see it did not all lay unharvested in the fields but offered at least 10 types of potato, 7 of onions, 6 of carrots plus parsnips, celeriac, swede, cabbage, cauliflower, kale, beetroot, aspargus, leeks, cucumbers and no less than 9 varieties of British grown tomatoes. Plus at least a dozen types of British mushrooms. Doubtless there were other things as well which I've forgotten. Great mounds of it and much at reduced prices. A veritable cornucopia in fact.
But there were no turnips, of any origin.
MalcolmG would have been heartbroke - unless that is he is secretly cornering the turnip market.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
I can see why Ruth Smeeth is upset having been attacked in a question like that.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
Taking 40 supporters looks like an attempt to lobby the tribunal. What evidence was there of any physical or verbal threat?
To be honest Foxy , if that is their case that rk posted ,and there are no other allegations. They are undermining their arguments regarding ant -semitism.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to follow
Potentially all in the translation. The common phrase in Arabic for the Islamic world as a whole is al ummat ulislamiya - most commonly translated as the Islamic Community. But ummah is also sometimes translated as nation.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to follow
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
Taking 40 supporters looks like an attempt to lobby the tribunal. What evidence was there of any physical or verbal threat?
To be honest Foxy , if that is their case that rk posted ,and there are no other allegations. They are undermining their arguments regarding ant -semitism.
Perhaps there are other allegations. But I would have expected them to be widely reported. I hope the inquiry considers it all fairly.
No doubt they have no intention on acting against anti semitism
Let’s be charitable for a moment. Let’s assume that they do want to do something about it. They’ll get Corbyn to write an article. They’ll say anti-semitism is a bad thing and down with this sort of thing in Labour and everywhere else. They may even discipline a few people. And they’ll hope that this will make it go away. Hey presto: problem solved.
If only.
The problem is a deeper one, I think, and it stymies both their attempts to resolve the problem and, indeed, to understand why it has arisen and seems to have spread in recent years, why people are so open to saying anti-semitic things to Ms Thornberry and assuming she will agree with them.
The problem is that the particular strand of leftist ideology lrepresented by Corbyn is one which makes it almost inevitable that many of its proponents and followers end up using, believing and disseminating anti-semitic memes.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to follow
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Surely the job of the inquiry is to be fair, consider the evidence etc.? Not to help the Labour party manage a media story.
- the unfairnesses of the capitalist system are down to the actions of rich individuals who oppress others (rather than any more systematic analysis of economies and how they operate and their interaction with power relations etc). This easily elides into a very old form of anti-semitic discourse that it is those with money or good with money who are the oppressive individuals. Such people were and are often seen as Jews. See, for instance, the infamous mural or some of the criticisms made by Naomi Klein of some of the posters used in the Occupy movements a few years ago.
- an anti-colonial stance and a view that Israel is a colonial implant of the West (ahistorical and totally ignorant of the need for self-determination and self-governance for a people, a cause usually embraced by the left when it applies to others). There is also mixed in a genuine - and in many ways admirable - concern for the Palestinians. But this is not essential. Wanting to do right by the Palestinians and criticising Israeli behaviour in the Occupied Territories does not and need not be anti-semitic. But too many supporters of the Palestinian cause have been unwilling to accept that some of those expressing outrage over Israeli behaviour are more motivated by a desire to get rid of Israel altogether & its Jewish inhabitants than helping Palestinians. It is very hard to see how wishing to get rid of Israel and its Jews can be anything other than anti-semitic.
- a belief that because Jews are white & Western (ignoring all the Jews who lived in countries like Iraq, Egypt etc for thousands of years) they are not victims but only oppressors.
- a belief that anti-semitism is only a fault of the far right (the Nazi Holocaust) coupled with an adamantine refusal to understand why centuries of persecution and an event as traumatic and evil as the Holocaust would affect how Jews see the world.
- some remains of the Soviet view of the Jewish question which was to deny their desire for nationhood and to view Russian Jews who valued their Jewishness as somehow traitors to the motherland/Soviet cause. (The Soviets largely ignored the very specific nature of Jewish suffering under German rule and its racist origin/genocidal outcome, preferring to see everyone as victims of German fascism.)
When that is your world view it is hard to understand that is this which is giving succour to anti-semites, ex-Nazis, BNP types and all sorts of people who hate or dislike Jews for all sorts of reasons. Harder still to challenge it.
If this world view is wrong because it leads to anti-semitism, well, what else has it got wrong? Is it worth anything at all?
So it’s back to saying that people must not use unkind words about Jews as if this was just a problem of linguistic etiquette and a bit of bad manners. That is why this will rumble on. If you don’t analyse the problem correctly, how can you resolve it effectively?
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Surely the job of the inquiry is to be fair, consider the evidence etc.? Not to help the Labour party manage a media story.
Yes but the perception that Ruth Smeeth is the loser will be a big story in the context of the abuse received by her and others
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to follow
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Surely the job of the inquiry is to be fair, consider the evidence etc.? Not to help the Labour party manage a media story.
Yes but the perception that Ruth Smeeth is the loser will be a big story in the context of the abuse received by her and others
You're certainly right about that. But it's not the job of the inquiry to be thinking about that.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to follow
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to follow
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.
Not other outside considerations.
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labour
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed it.
EDIT: I've just watched it. It was about on-line abuse.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to follow
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.
Not other outside considerations.
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labour
True , however so be it , if the man us wrongly accused.You do not make things correct by creating another victim.
Come the next election (hopefully many years hence) and presuming the current PM isn't leading the blue team on to the pitch (and it's also not a Brexit fanatic), who fancies campaigning against the wing-nut in chief and supporting the blues effort there?
Not sure where Derby is other than up there somewhere and presuming it's can't be that far past Milton Keynes.... I'm up for it!
If only to see if he keeps his twitter name and again pretends to be an MP even when he's been voted out....
If you missed the debate you missed the very essence of the anger by labour mps against anti semetic attitudes in labour. Ruth Smeeth, Luciana Berger, and John Mann with others provided a litany of abuse so much so that not only did it reduce me to tears, my wife who was not watching the debate at the start but was compelled to listen, sobbed too and we joined in with the across the house applause for their testimony
Basically, we've all been driven mad by Brexit,Trump, antisemitism, Windrush, the NHS, Syria, Israel, nerve agents and Facebook. Time for a rest.
I go away shortly for a 14 day cruise to the Western Med amd Aegean and on return travel to the north of Scotland with my eldest son and his wife in from Vancouver to visit our relatives. So definitely going to have a protracted rest
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to follow
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.
Not other outside considerations.
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labour
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed it.
EDIT: I've just watched it. It was about on-line abuse.
If you missed the debate you missed the very essence of the anger by labour mps against anti semetic attitudes in labour. Ruth Smeeth, Luciana Berger, and John Mann with others provided a litany of abuse so much so that not only did it reduce me to tears, my wife who was not watching the debate at the start but was compelled to listen, sobbed too and we joined in with the across the house applause for their testimony
The perpetrators of the on-line anti-semitic abuse need to be tracked down and brought to account.
But from the video, her case against Mark Wadsworth looks weak. Perhaps there's more to it that will come out in the hearing. But if all she is complaining about is a Labour MP accusing of her of siding with the Telegraph against Corbyn she will lose her case and lose sympathy which is a pity.
1. DUP support for the government is dependent on NI being treated identically to the rest of the UK with respect to customs controls. 2. The UK is already committed to ensuring a frictionless border between the EU (specifically Eire) and NI. 3. Leaving the UK in the Customs Union (or similar) would satisfy 1. & 2. Leaving the just NI in a CU would only satisfy 2. 4. There is currently no other firm proposal for satisfying 1. & 2.apart from the UK remaining in the CU (or something very similar).
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.
Not other outside considerations.
Yeah, technically, sort of. The reality though is that it makes very little odds, because if the guy is found guilty, that's Labour proven to be antisemitic, whereas if he is found not guilty, that will be because Labour is antisemitic. I know you are a bit invested in this, but surely you see the funny side?
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
No idea, I’m afraid. The MP in question fled the press conference in tears.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
No idea, I’m afraid. The MP in question fled the press conference in tears.
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to follow
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.
Not other outside considerations.
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labour
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed it.
EDIT: I've just watched it. It was about on-line abuse.
Supported by members of the labour party
I've just listened to every word of her speech and she didn't mention members of the the labour party. She spoke of anti-semitic abuse.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
US healthcare is a business, and the purpose of a business is to legally and sustainably extract as much money as possible out of the customer. US healthcare is extremely good at this!
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
No idea, I’m afraid. The MP in question fled the press conference in tears.
Guilty then ?
No. The person should be given a fair hearing. He should not be found guilty of whatever the charge is just because the victim is Ruth Smeeth. If the evidence stacks up, fine. But if it doesn’t then he should not be disciplined.
I don’t know what the charge is nor have I seen the evidence so can’t comment either way on what the outcome should be.
The trouble Labour is in is that they have handled the politics of it so badly that people will be looking at that rather than the legalities of the disciplinary process. Whatever the outcome it will likely land them in poo. It’s what often happens when you ignore a problem rather than dealing with it early and firmly.
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to follow
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?
To be honest I do not feel competent to judge but after the HOC debate it is unthinkable that labour would not support Ruth Smeeth. It would set off a very dangerous civil war in labour fed on by the media, and they know how to do that in a big way
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.
Not other outside considerations.
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labour
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed it.
EDIT: I've just watched it. It was about on-line abuse.
Supported by members of the labour party
I've just listened to every word of her speech and she didn't mention members of the the labour party. She spoke of anti-semitic abuse.
So are you suggesting labour members did no make anti semetic comments to her. Check out John Manns contribution to the same debate
If you missed the debate you missed the very essence of the anger by labour mps against anti semetic attitudes in labour. Ruth Smeeth, Luciana Berger, and John Mann with others provided a litany of abuse so much so that not only did it reduce me to tears, my wife who was not watching the debate at the start but was compelled to listen, sobbed too and we joined in with the across the house applause for their testimony
The perpetrators of the on-line anti-semitic abuse need to be tracked down and brought to account.
But from the video, her case against Mark Wadsworth looks weak. Perhaps there's more to it that will come out in the hearing. But if all she is complaining about is a Labour MP accusing of her of siding with the Telegraph against Corbyn she will lose her case and lose sympathy which is a pity.
There seems to be a conflation of anger amongst Labour MP's about anti semitism, with more general anger about Momentum. To be taken seriously on the first issue they need to avoid this, and pick their battles carefully.
Another day where decent Labour supporters must wonder what the feck is going on with their party.
sorry people, your party has gone - the far left has eaten it and they never play nice.
Why what has happened today ?
One Jewish Labour MP attending the disciplinary hearing of a Labour member accused of abusing her at the presentation of the Chakrabati Report on anti-semitism within Labour was given a protective cordon of 40 Labour MPs and peers because her own party could not, apparently guarantee her safety, the risk presumably coming from those supporting the person facing the disciplinary hearing.
It’s “kinder gentler politics” in action. I think.
I saw that on the news , what did he say that was abusive ?
No idea, I’m afraid. The MP in question fled the press conference in tears.
Guilty then ?
No. The person should be given a fair hearing. He should not be found guilty of whatever the charge is just because the victim is Ruth Smeeth. If the evidence stacks up, fine. But if it doesn’t then he should not be disciplined.
I don’t know what the charge is nor have I seen the evidence so can’t comment either way on what the outcome should be.
The trouble Labour is in is that they have handled the politics of it so badly that people will be looking at that rather than the legalities of the disciplinary process. Whatever the outcome it will likely land them in poo. It’s what often happens when you ignore a problem rather than dealing with it early and firmly.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
You can make your own mind up. Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
To be honest if that is all he is accused of .It seens to me way over the top to even get to a hearing. Surely he can say what he did.
I cannot comment on the detail but if they find against Ruth Smeeth expect civil war to follow
Yes maybe , however if the person is wrongly accused , he deserves a fair hearing.What do you think about the clip posted ?
Yes , but if the man has not done what he has been accused of , surely you have to be fair and go by the evidence presented.
Not other outside considerations.
Agreed but the politics is horrible for labour
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed it.
EDIT: I've just watched it. It was about on-line abuse.
Supported by members of the labour party
I've just listened to every word of her speech and she didn't mention members of the the labour party. She spoke of anti-semitic abuse.
So are you suggesting labour members did no make anti semetic comments to her. Check out John Manns contribution to the same debate
I'm simply saying she didn't mention members of the labour party in her speech.
She was upset to be called out by Wadsworth for siding with the Telegraph against Corbyn and seems to have turned it into an anti-semitic attack. She weakens her case if she sees all political dispute as anti-semitism.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Sigh. It's not to do with profits, it's to do with tort reform.
The issue is that in order to prevent legal liability the US systems spends vast amounts on unnecessary Dx to reduce the risk of getting sued.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
That's a fair point. Given simple pursuasion hasn't worked, is it time to incentivise people to switch to a healthier diet and lifestyle through taxation and legislation? It appears to have worked for smoking and road safety for example.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Sigh. It's not to do with profits, it's to do with tort reform.
The issue is that in order to prevent legal liability the US systems spends vast amounts on unnecessary Dx to reduce the risk of getting sued.
US States vary tremendously in terms of medical negligence costs, but healthcare costs do not match these.
Private companies charging what the market can bear however are ubiquitous.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
That's a fair point. Given simple pursuasion hasn't worked, is it time to incentivise people to switch to a healthier diet and lifestyle through taxation and legislation? It appears to have worked for smoking and road safety for example.
Maybe the government can tie it in to an ID card? No Waitrose organic veg or Soul Cycle membership unless you can prove who you are.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
US healthcare is a business, and the purpose of a business is to legally and sustainably extract as much money as possible out of the customer. US healthcare is extremely good at this!
There is another factor about the USA model. Depending on how you define customer, it doesn't necessarily mean the people getting the coverage.
Unlike say car insurance, where we all compare the meerkat and get to see all the options, the prices etc, in the US an organization employs a broker to block purchase insurance for its employees, and there is a massive disconnect between the healthcare provider writing the bill and the person (not the employee) forking out the money for the premium, which allows for price gouging with no real repercussion.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
That's a fair point. Given simple pursuasion hasn't worked, is it time to incentivise people to switch to a healthier diet and lifestyle through taxation and legislation? It appears to have worked for smoking and road safety for example.
Maybe the government can tie it in to an ID card? No Waitrose organic veg or Soul Cycle membership unless you can prove who you are.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Shaping up to be an interesting vote, though I dare say if the government wins it no doubt some other vote will be seen as just as terribly important and undermining to it the next week. And that not even getting into the Lords business.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
So far so good, but also pretty useless.
Who doesn't know the above already? who doesn't know that fat, sugar, salt, smoking, and laziness are bad for us?
What we need is health policy to make taking the unhealthy option the difficult one, and the healthy alternative the default option. The food business will scream blue murder.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
' The mother of a man who was shot dead outside his home believes he was killed as revenge for helping to convict a gang of rapists.
Abraham Badru was shot in the chest in Dalston, east London, on 25 March while speaking on the phone with a friend.
The 26-year-old received a bravery award in 2009 after he saved a girl from being gang-raped at a party, later giving evidence against her attackers. '
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years. Just over 10 years ago they had about 400 or so, thus within 12 years they hope to have nearly quadrupled the number of outlets.
If May doesn't take control of our borders it will lead to a Corbyn government. Leave voters are such a big part of her base that losing just 10% of them will make the difference. It is not like Remainers will come back to the Tories by staying in the CU.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
So far so good, but also pretty useless.
Who doesn't know the above already? who doesn't know that fat, sugar, salt, smoking, and laziness are bad for us?
What we need is health policy to make taking the unhealthy option the difficult one, and the healthy alternative the default option. The food business will scream blue murder.
Spot on. The food business screaming blue murder must be preferable to them committing blue murder which is effectively the current situation.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.
Nor are they cheap compared to cooking for yourself.
I wonder if the rise of grotty takeaways in urban areas is inversely proportional to the amount of kitchen space per person.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years.
I was on a cruise last year and went on an excursion with the founder of Dominos and his wife.
If May doesn't take control of our borders it will lead to a Corbyn government. Leave voters are such a big part of her base that losing just 10% of them will make the difference. It is not like Remainers will come back to the Tories by staying in the CU.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.
Nor are they cheap compared to cooking for yourself.
I wonder if the rise of grotty takeaways in urban areas is inversely proportional to the amount of kitchen space per person.
Yeah I can't really get my head around that, a dominos pizza is more than £10. You can make one for pennies and even supermarket bought one is only £3.
If I had to guess it is that with KFC and dominos you can do those family bucket / family mega offer things, where for £15-20 you get mountains and mountains of crap with fizzy drink and dessert. So I guess if you are busy and tired and got 2-3 kids, £15 to feed everybody and you get it to your door in 15-20 mins is a more attractive offer.
Mrs U and myself much prefer to make our food, and if we go out it is to spend a lot on a really good restaurant.
If May doesn't take control of our borders it will lead to a Corbyn government. Leave voters are such a big part of her base that losing just 10% of them will make the difference. It is not like Remainers will come back to the Tories by staying in the CU.
If International supply chains collapse May will lose more that 10%
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
So far so good, but also pretty useless.
Who doesn't know the above already? who doesn't know that fat, sugar, salt, smoking, and laziness are bad for us?
What we need is health policy to make taking the unhealthy option the difficult one, and the healthy alternative the default option. The food business will scream blue murder.
I'd like to see membership of gyms, health clubs etc made a tax deductible expense.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.
Nor are they cheap compared to cooking for yourself.
I wonder if the rise of grotty takeaways in urban areas is inversely proportional to the amount of kitchen space per person.
Yeah I can't really get my head around that, a dominos pizza is more than £10. You can make one for pennies and even supermarket bought one is only £3.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.
Nor are they cheap compared to cooking for yourself.
I wonder if the rise of grotty takeaways in urban areas is inversely proportional to the amount of kitchen space per person.
Yeah I can't really get my head around that, a dominos pizza is more than £10. You can make one for pennies and even supermarket bought one is only £3.
Is that with or without pineapple? Just asking.
If TSE had his way, there would be a pineapple on pizza tax making it at least £20....
If May doesn't take control of our borders it will lead to a Corbyn government. Leave voters are such a big part of her base that losing just 10% of them will make the difference. It is not like Remainers will come back to the Tories by staying in the CU.
Why not?
Well it's clearly not just the leaving part which is putting them off, since a lot seem to have gone over to Labour, who are also Leavers and until not that long ago I'm pretty sure they were against the CU as well.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
So far so good, but also pretty useless.
Who doesn't know the above already? who doesn't know that fat, sugar, salt, smoking, and laziness are bad for us?
What we need is health policy to make taking the unhealthy option the difficult one, and the healthy alternative the default option. The food business will scream blue murder.
I'd like to see membership of gyms, health clubs etc made a tax deductible expense.
But I may have a vested interest in that
Didn't it used to be the case that companies could offset healthy stuff things like gym memberships for their employees? Is that still the case?
If May doesn't take control of our borders it will lead to a Corbyn government. Leave voters are such a big part of her base that losing just 10% of them will make the difference. It is not like Remainers will come back to the Tories by staying in the CU.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years.
I was on a cruise last year and went on an excursion with the founder of Dominos and his wife.
Did you ask him how he managed to forge a profitable business out an utterly sh*te product?
(I know the answer - you'd be far too polite for that, and rightly so. But honestly, even every cheap frozen supermarket pizza is better than dominos IMO!)
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years.
I was on a cruise last year and went on an excursion with the founder of Dominos and his wife.
Did you ask him how he managed to forge a profitable business out an utterly sh*te product?
(I know the answer - you'd be far too polite for that, and rightly so. But honestly, even every cheap frozen supermarket pizza is better than dominos IMO!)
They really do have a distinctive taste of yuckiness. Five Guys or In n Out burgers I can understand, but popularity of Dominos is a mystery in such a crowded space (and actually a really easy food to make).
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.
Nor are they cheap compared to cooking for yourself.
I wonder if the rise of grotty takeaways in urban areas is inversely proportional to the amount of kitchen space per person.
Yeah I can't really get my head around that, a dominos pizza is more than £10. You can make one for pennies and even supermarket bought one is only £3.
Is that with or without pineapple? Just asking.
If TSE had his way, there would be a pineapple on pizza tax making it at least £20....
Maybe that should be a pizza under pinapple tax, since the pinapple's probably the healthy part!
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Sigh. It's not to do with profits, it's to do with tort reform.
The issue is that in order to prevent legal liability the US systems spends vast amounts on unnecessary Dx to reduce the risk of getting sued.
US States vary tremendously in terms of medical negligence costs, but healthcare costs do not match these.
Private companies charging what the market can bear however are ubiquitous.
In a US-Canadian comparison, the two countries have not dissimilar diets, etc, etc. The one has a fee-for-service healthcare system; the other has been 'socialised' since 1962 or earlier.
Canadian lifespans for men and women are pretty good too, among the top 5-10 countries I think.
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years.
I was on a cruise last year and went on an excursion with the founder of Dominos and his wife.
Did you ask him how he managed to forge a profitable business out an utterly sh*te product?
(I know the answer - you'd be far too polite for that, and rightly so. But honestly, even every cheap frozen supermarket pizza is better than dominos IMO!)
The thing is, neither my wife or I like pizza, pineapple on top or not. They were a lovely unassuming couple
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
Looked at the other way, think how fantastic our UK health care could be if we spent 17.2% of our GDP like the US but delivered it largely through a not-for-profit service like the NHS.
Alternatively we could reduce our health spending to that of Chile, Iceland or South Korea - all countries which have a longer life expectancy than the UK.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
There isnt a great relationship between health care spend and longevity. UK life expectancy is higher than the US or Germany for example, and Albania is only a few places behind the USA. The major determinats of longevity are lifestyle related.
Certainly - we could reduce health spending by 50% or increase it by 50% with probably little effect on longevity.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
No - 9 out of 10 of the areas with highest child obesity are in London.
I find the rapid expansion of fast food chains like KFC and Dominos over the past 5-10 years really quite shocking. It is like the US now where in urban areas you can't go more than a few miles without seeing one.
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years.
I was on a cruise last year and went on an excursion with the founder of Dominos and his wife.
Did you ask him how he managed to forge a profitable business out an utterly sh*te product?
(I know the answer - you'd be far too polite for that, and rightly so. But honestly, even every cheap frozen supermarket pizza is better than dominos IMO!)
I like Dominos pizza. I know I don't exactly have a refined palette, but I don't get the antipathy people hold for its products. And as an occasional purchaser of cheap frozen pizza, Dominos is far superior.
Comments
The Conservatives were probably at a NEV of 60% in 1968.
I don’t think Tories are trying to put up posters anywhere this time. I’d be cautious on relying on that as a proxy for support.
In my part of Newham I've seen posters for one of the Conservative candidates in my Ward (the names of the other two not even mentioned and nor is the name of the Conservative Mayoral candidate).
It's a specifically Vote Conservative poster with the picture and name of the individual. Why mention him and not the other two Conservative candidates ?
You drive down a street of 50 houses. 25 on each side. You see 8 homes displaying Labour posters pepperpotted along the street. You conclude: wow, Labour own this street.
You completely overlook the 16 houses that are fully intending to vote Tory, and beat Labour 66%/33%.
Funnily enough, if those 8 x houses are clustered at one end you won’t draw quite the same conclusions. Your mind interpolates and fills in the blanks without you even realising.
I was reassured to see it did not all lay unharvested in the fields but offered at least 10 types of potato, 7 of onions, 6 of carrots plus parsnips, celeriac, swede, cabbage, cauliflower, kale, beetroot, aspargus, leeks, cucumbers and no less than 9 varieties of British grown tomatoes. Plus at least a dozen types of British mushrooms. Doubtless there were other things as well which I've forgotten. Great mounds of it and much at reduced prices. A veritable cornucopia in fact.
But there were no turnips, of any origin.
MalcolmG would have been heartbroke - unless that is he is secretly cornering the turnip market.
Personally I would be surprised if he gets thrown out for that, if that's all the evidence against him. I haven't managed to find anything else online.
I can see why Ruth Smeeth is upset having been attacked in a question like that.
But in each of those six years they beat the West German champions at some point in doing so.
But I would have expected them to be widely reported.
I hope the inquiry considers it all fairly.
If only.
The problem is a deeper one, I think, and it stymies both their attempts to resolve the problem and, indeed, to understand why it has arisen and seems to have spread in recent years, why people are so open to saying anti-semitic things to Ms Thornberry and assuming she will agree with them.
The problem is that the particular strand of leftist ideology lrepresented by Corbyn is one which makes it almost inevitable that many of its proponents and followers end up using, believing and disseminating anti-semitic memes.
(To be cont’d)
Not to help the Labour party manage a media story.
- the unfairnesses of the capitalist system are down to the actions of rich individuals who oppress others (rather than any more systematic analysis of economies and how they operate and their interaction with power relations etc). This easily elides into a very old form of anti-semitic discourse that it is those with money or good with money who are the oppressive individuals. Such people were and are often seen as Jews. See, for instance, the infamous mural or some of the criticisms made by Naomi Klein of some of the posters used in the Occupy movements a few years ago.
- an anti-colonial stance and a view that Israel is a colonial implant of the West (ahistorical and totally ignorant of the need for self-determination and self-governance for a people, a cause usually embraced by the left when it applies to others). There is also mixed in a genuine - and in many ways admirable - concern for the Palestinians. But this is not essential. Wanting to do right by the Palestinians and criticising Israeli behaviour in the Occupied Territories does not and need not be anti-semitic. But too many supporters of the Palestinian cause have been unwilling to accept that some of those expressing outrage over Israeli behaviour are more motivated by a desire to get rid of Israel altogether & its Jewish inhabitants than helping Palestinians. It is very hard to see how wishing to get rid of Israel and its Jews can be anything other than anti-semitic.
- a belief that because Jews are white & Western (ignoring all the Jews who lived in countries like Iraq, Egypt etc for thousands of years) they are not victims but only oppressors.
- a belief that anti-semitism is only a fault of the far right (the Nazi Holocaust) coupled with an adamantine refusal to understand why centuries of persecution and an event as traumatic and evil as the Holocaust would affect how Jews see the world.
- some remains of the Soviet view of the Jewish question which was to deny their desire for nationhood and to view Russian Jews who valued their Jewishness as somehow traitors to the motherland/Soviet cause. (The Soviets largely ignored the very specific nature of Jewish suffering under German rule and its racist origin/genocidal outcome, preferring to see everyone as victims of German fascism.)
When that is your world view it is hard to understand that is this which is giving succour to anti-semites, ex-Nazis, BNP types and all sorts of people who hate or dislike Jews for all sorts of reasons. Harder still to challenge it.
If this world view is wrong because it leads to anti-semitism, well, what else has it got wrong? Is it worth anything at all?
So it’s back to saying that people must not use unkind words about Jews as if this was just a problem of linguistic etiquette and a bit of bad manners. That is why this will rumble on. If you don’t analyse the problem correctly, how can you resolve it effectively?
Not other outside considerations.
https://capx.co/jeremy-corbyn-and-the-closing-of-the-labour-mind/
But it's not the job of the inquiry to be thinking about that.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/25/dup-threatens-bring-theresa-mays-government-climbs-brexit/
EDIT: I've just watched it. It was about on-line abuse.
Not sure where Derby is other than up there somewhere and presuming it's can't be that far past Milton Keynes.... I'm up for it!
If only to see if he keeps his twitter name and again pretends to be an MP even when he's been voted out....
What did Ruth Smeeth claim in her speech in the HOC and how does it stack against the video clip? I missed
.....................................................................................................................
If you missed the debate you missed the very essence of the anger by labour mps against anti semetic attitudes in labour. Ruth Smeeth, Luciana Berger, and John Mann with others provided a litany of abuse so much so that not only did it reduce me to tears, my wife who was not watching the debate at the start but was compelled to listen, sobbed too and we joined in with the across the house applause for their testimony
Time for a rest.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2016#international-comparisons
Medical care in the USA must be a real money making scam.
But from the video, her case against Mark Wadsworth looks weak. Perhaps there's more to it that will come out in the hearing. But if all she is complaining about is a Labour MP accusing of her of siding with the Telegraph against Corbyn she will lose her case and lose sympathy which is a pity.
1. DUP support for the government is dependent on NI being treated identically to the rest of the UK with respect to customs controls.
2. The UK is already committed to ensuring a frictionless border between the EU (specifically Eire) and NI.
3. Leaving the UK in the Customs Union (or similar) would satisfy 1. & 2. Leaving the just NI in a CU would only satisfy 2.
4. There is currently no other firm proposal for satisfying 1. & 2.apart from the UK remaining in the CU (or something very similar).
Have I missed something?
https://twitter.com/CKnSD619/status/988987213365952512
One of the few people to take an opposite view, in the West that is, was Jimmy Goldsmith.
Law of diminishing returns applies to health spending.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5655125/Scientist-developed-Novichok-poison-used-Salisbury-run-car.html
I don’t know what the charge is nor have I seen the evidence so can’t comment either way on what the outcome should be.
The trouble Labour is in is that they have handled the politics of it so badly that people will be looking at that rather than the legalities of the disciplinary process. Whatever the outcome it will likely land them in poo. It’s what often happens when you ignore a problem rather than dealing with it early and firmly.
She was upset to be called out by Wadsworth for siding with the Telegraph against Corbyn and seems to have turned it into an anti-semitic attack. She weakens her case if she sees all political dispute as anti-semitism.
The issue is that in order to prevent legal liability the US systems spends vast amounts on unnecessary Dx to reduce the risk of getting sued.
Private companies charging what the market can bear however are ubiquitous.
And you could reduce all the healthy lifestyle advice down to these ten words:
East and drink moderately. No smoking. Exercise regularly. Avoid stress.
Unlike say car insurance, where we all compare the meerkat and get to see all the options, the prices etc, in the US an organization employs a broker to block purchase insurance for its employees, and there is a massive disconnect between the healthcare provider writing the bill and the person (not the employee) forking out the money for the premium, which allows for price gouging with no real repercussion.
Is that right 8 out of 10 of unhealthiest areas in UK are in London?
Who doesn't know the above already? who doesn't know that fat, sugar, salt, smoking, and laziness are bad for us?
What we need is health policy to make taking the unhealthy option the difficult one, and the healthy alternative the default option. The food business will scream blue murder.
Abraham Badru was shot in the chest in Dalston, east London, on 25 March while speaking on the phone with a friend.
The 26-year-old received a bravery award in 2009 after he saved a girl from being gang-raped at a party, later giving evidence against her attackers. '
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43894344
Apparently Dominos already has over 1000 stores and wants 1600 within the next couple of years. Just over 10 years ago they had about 400 or so, thus within 12 years they hope to have nearly quadrupled the number of outlets.
Ambrose again
I wonder if the rise of grotty takeaways in urban areas is inversely proportional to the amount of kitchen space per person.
If I had to guess it is that with KFC and dominos you can do those family bucket / family mega offer things, where for £15-20 you get mountains and mountains of crap with fizzy drink and dessert. So I guess if you are busy and tired and got 2-3 kids, £15 to feed everybody and you get it to your door in 15-20 mins is a more attractive offer.
Mrs U and myself much prefer to make our food, and if we go out it is to spend a lot on a really good restaurant.
But I may have a vested interest in that
(I know the answer - you'd be far too polite for that, and rightly so. But honestly, even every cheap frozen supermarket pizza is better than dominos IMO!)
Canadian lifespans for men and women are pretty good too, among the top 5-10 countries I think.