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AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

MarqueeMark said:

What is the penis in the Bristol Channel?

MarqueeMark said:

What is the penis in the Bristol Channel?

MarqueeMark said:

What is the penis in the Bristol Channel?

AlastairMeeks said:

The detail of the poll is noteworthy. No one really is changing their minds. The change is among those who didn’t vote in 2016, who are decisively breaking for Remain. This is the short term protection and the long term risk for Leave.

But for some reason Leavers aren’t beginning to think about how to win new converts.

CarlottaVance said:

Anazina said:

felix said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?

MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

Very interesting indeed.

The results show that 95% of Leave voters and 93% of Remain voters say that they have not changed their mind since the EU referendum. Nearly all the top-line change since 2016 has come from those who did not vote at the referendum (73% Remain, 27% Leave).

http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-poll-independent-public-say-will-short-term-pain-long-term-gain/

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems delusional.

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

CarlottaVance said:

Anazina said:

CarlottaVance said:

Anazina said:

felix said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?

MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

Very interesting indeed.

The results show that 95% of Leave voters and 93% of Remain voters say that they have not changed their mind since the EU referendum. Nearly all the top-line change since 2016 has come from those who did not vote at the referendum (73% Remain, 27% Leave).

http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-poll-independent-public-say-will-short-term-pain-long-term-gain/

Very bad news long term for turncoat neobrexiteers like yourself.

Condescension & name calling!

That's the way to do it!

Worked so well last time.....

At least some of us learn as we progress through life....

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Anazina said:

felix said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?

MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

Very interesting indeed.

"The Independent also reported updated figures for BMG’s EU Referendum tracker; reporting top-line figures of 53% for Remain, and 47% for Leave if a referendum were held today. The results show that 95% of Leave voters and 93% of Remain voters say that they have not changed their mind since the EU referendum."

53/47 is of course a squeeze - it's the other number that do not point to any meaningful shift at all.

Pulpstar said:

Elliot said:

If there is a "next time" it will not be Leave vs Remain but Rejoin or Don't rejoin after the 2025 election. And rejoin will require much higher membership fees and likely entry into Schengen and the Euro.

A good point, the question changes after March 2019.

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'

If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time.

Didn't the poll show that the public believe in decreasing numbers that Brexit is a mistake?

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'

If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time.

Didn't the poll show that the public believe in decreasing numbers that Brexit is a mistake?

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'

If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.

ReggieCide said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'

If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.

tomorrow never comes

TheScreamingEagles said:

ReggieCide said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'

If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.

tomorrow never comes

Tomorrow belongs to me.

You’re all assuming a new referendum on rejoining.

A party or parties that had a manifesto commitment to take us back win a majority in Parliament could do it.

Might happen in 2027, we’ll have been out for six years and if Brexit turns out to be an (economic) mistake, and that should be long enough for the public to make up their mind on whether Brexit was a path to the sunlit uplands or not.

JonnyJimmy said:

People come up to me and say "Oh, what a lovely baby..", then they get a closer look...

Then he wakes up and starts screaming "WAAAAH! XENEPHOBIC LIES! XENEPHOBIC LIES! WAAAAAAH!"

And they all change the way they voted.

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'

If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time.

By now Leave should be far ahead.

I think you win the prize for today's 'straw man'.

I'd have thought it would be Remainers in search of a second referendum that should be seriously worried....

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/do-you-think-there-should-be-a-second-referendum-on-whether-britain-remains-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-not/?removed

ReggieCide said:

AlastairMeeks said:

If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.

tomorrow never comes

TheScreamingEagles said:

ReggieCide said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'

If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.

tomorrow never comes

Tomorrow belongs to me.

You’re all assuming a new referendum on rejoining.

A party or parties that had a manifesto commitment to take us back win a majority in Parliament could do it.

Might happen in 2027, we’ll have been out for six years and if Brexit turns out to be an (economic) mistake, and that should be long enough for the public to make up their mind on whether Brexit was a path to the sunlit uplands or not.

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'

If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.

The public have very little to do with it. As in 1975 and 2016, it'll be tactical party considerations that matter most. And the considerations at the moment are that neither the Tory nor Labour leaderships have the slightest interest in reopening a question that's been answered, and every incentive not to do so. So it won't be.

I think that’s probably true. At the moment, anyway. If even some of the more unpleasant ‘threats’ of the Remainers come to pass....... especially those directly impinging on the general public and, especially again, those within 25 miles of Central London then the picture will change very quickly.

david_herdson said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'

If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.

The public have very little to do with it. As in 1975 and 2016, it'll be tactical party considerations that matter most. And the considerations at the moment are that neither the Tory nor Labour leaderships have the slightest interest in reopening a question that's been answered, and every incentive not to do so. So it won't be.

I think that’s probably true. At the moment, anyway. If even some of the more unpleasant ‘threats’ of the Remainers come to pass....... especially those directly impinging on the general public and, especially again, those within 25 miles of Central London then the picture will change very quickly.

That's possible. But by then, the UK will be out and as others have said, the question would be Rejoin, not Remain.

JosiasJessop said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Whoever would have thought that Theresa May in two short weeks would become the de facto leader of the West facing down Putin

It appears the whole sorry mess has been handled very well by the government from the beginning - the main sad issue being the infection of the police officer, which may have happened before they had much of a clue what was going on.

I'm not their greatest fan, but May and Boris have gone up on my estimation.

Putin would have got off with no censure if Corbyn has been in charge: he'd be busy blaming our own people.

Elliot said:

If there is a "next time" it will not be Leave vs Remain but Rejoin or Don't rejoin after the 2025 election. And rejoin will require much higher membership fees and likely entry into Schengen and the Euro.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Whoever would have thought that Theresa May in two short weeks would become the de facto leader of the West facing down Putin

AlastairMeeks said:

harryfaversham said:

I am pro-Brexit and I am neither a xenophobe or stupid. I lived and worked in Switzerland and France for many years and am pretty much fluent in French, I have worked my whole career with international clients and have had a great relationship with the majority spending large amounts of time with them in both a business and social capacity. I still talk every day to people of many nationalities for business and am able to adapt to the cultural differences and appreciate the similarities. I was educated with my peers of many nationalities and to this day count them as friends. I was married to a Slovak lady in my twenties, my last partner was French and my current is Portuguese. I hope that in some way this allows me to disabuse the notion of me being xenophobic by your high standards.

I was educated at a school regarded to be one of the hardest to enter academically and went on to a University consistently ranked in the global top ten. I ran a private bank at 27 and am sought out to solve complicated problems for global individuals. I hope that this allows me to reach somewhere near your own levels of intellectual standing....

I believe in Brexit as I feel that it will allow Britain to be more flexible and adaptable in a constantly changing global economy and geo-political world, and over time be able to agree trade agreements weighted nearer to the requirements of Britain with its different economy, resources, business practices, than where currently our position as one of many in the EU means that we are at risk of trade deals being weighted to the needs of others. I accept that this will take time but good things take time.

I also believe that for the EU to work it needs to become a United States of Europe which is fine and I wish them well but I personally do not feel that the way Britain "works" culturally and from a business perspective fits in to the continental "way" and having worked in and with continental Europe I always found that there was a different way of looking at things compared to the Brits which will likely always be there.

I do hope you will one day see that us brexiters are not evil xenophobes and stupid racists but, in the same way that those on the left and right simply often have equal good intentions but different paths to a solution, just truly believe from our own experience and calculations that there is a different "way".

I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.

Cyclefree said:

OldKingCole said:

Totally O/t but has anyone seen this on the BBC
'A bride and groom's bid to surprise guests by having a owl deliver their wedding rings did not go quite to plan.
The bird was spooked by one of the seated best men pointing at it - and dived towards the individual.’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-43553909/bride-and-groom-s-owl-plans-are-a-hoot

Which is of course what happens when you have free owls.

A rough rule of thumb of mine is that the more elaborate and over the top the wedding the less likely the marriage is to endure. There are relationships where you feel that the people concerned are playing at being husband and wife rather than really having a solid relationship.

GIN1138 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Remain was further ahead (10%) than that with Populas... On 23rd June 2016!

Torby_Fennel said:

AlastairMeeks said:

I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.

Please stop this... it's getting a bit embarrassing to read now. I bow to nobody in my horror and disappointment at the referendum result but the truth is that both campaigns were terrible. The vast majority of people who voted on both sides were not and are not bad people. If they were then all of us would have to condemn and insult members of our own families and circle of friends in order to be consistent. I see no malice in my loved ones who voted against what I believe to be the national interest and therefore no reason to assume bad intentions in people I don't know either.

TOPPING said:

Torby_Fennel said:

AlastairMeeks said:

I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.

Please stop this... it's getting a bit embarrassing to read now. I bow to nobody in my horror and disappointment at the referendum result but the truth is that both campaigns were terrible. The vast majority of people who voted on both sides were not and are not bad people. If they were then all of us would have to condemn and insult members of our own families and circle of friends in order to be consistent. I see no malice in my loved ones who voted against what I believe to be the national interest and therefore no reason to assume bad intentions in people I don't know either.

Those who voted for a Leave campaign which included those posters implicitly agreed with, and contributed to the direction of the country towards a more xenophobic attitude. They said: yes, this is fine, this is the kind of country I want to be in. They endorsed that xenophobic, hateful campaign and they were prepared to do this because they had some nebulous idea of sovereignty (which we always were, btw).

That I imagine is why Alastair won't let it go, and quite right that he shouldn't, IMO.

david_herdson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

Anazina said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/978627009969565696?s=21

Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.

The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

My view is .

You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.

The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'

If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.

The public have very little to do with it. As in 1975 and 2016, it'll be tactical party considerations that matter most. And the considerations at the moment are that neither the Tory nor Labour leaderships have the slightest interest in reopening a question that's been answered, and every incentive not to do so. So it won't be.