politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Survation CON voter poll finds that 50% say Brexit should

AlastairMeeks said:

RoyalBlue said:

If the people elect a Labour government, I won’t throw a tantrum when told to pay higher taxes, even though I’m opposed to them. That’s what living in a democratic nation state means.

You have quite the entitlement mentality.

You think that Remain supporters are supposed to cheer to the rafters if they lose their jobs because of Brexit because of the referendum result? Get real.

kyf_100 said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.

Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.

There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.

Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

RoyalBlue said:

If the people elect a Labour government, I won’t throw a tantrum when told to pay higher taxes, even though I’m opposed to them. That’s what living in a democratic nation state means.

You have quite the entitlement mentality.

You think that Remain supporters are supposed to cheer to the rafters if they lose their jobs because of Brexit because of the referendum result? Get real.

No, I don’t. I think they should have the emotional maturity to accept the referendum outcome. Political decisions have negative impacts on individuals all the time; Brexit is not unique in this regard. It’s just that most of the people whining aren’t used to political decisions going the ‘wrong’ way.

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

RoyalBlue said:

If the people elect a Labour government, I won’t throw a tantrum when told to pay higher taxes, even though I’m opposed to them. That’s what living in a democratic nation state means.

You have quite the entitlement mentality.

You think that Remain supporters are supposed to cheer to the rafters if they lose their jobs because of Brexit because of the referendum result? Get real.

No, I don’t. I think they should have the emotional maturity to accept the referendum outcome. Political decisions have negative impacts on individuals all the time; Brexit is not unique in this regard. It’s just that most of the people whining aren’t used to political decisions going the ‘wrong’ way.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I thought it was only Remainers who were unhappy with this transition deal.

https://twitter.com/GuardianAnushka/status/975805174190104576

Oh thank God.

We have had Remainers make Jacob's arguments for him, now we can finally have the man himself.

Well it confirms that this is a deal I can live with, whilst it isn't what I was after, and I have huge concerns about Northern Ireland, if the Moggster ain't happy, then Mrs May has done good.

this would be the same NI you wanted to ditch for a tax cut ?

chortle

Yeah, I was hoping in the transition deal Mrs May and David Davis would give away Northern Ireland to the Republic.

they cant afford it

luxury goods aren't for everybody

I'm content that Northern Ireland will be part of the EU post Brexit.

AlastairMeeks said:

UKIP expenditure in 2017 election campaign: £273,000
Costs awarded against UKIP today, to be paid within 14 days: £175,000

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

since all your Brexit scare mongering has gone tits up I predict Winterfell will remain part of the UK

My Brexit prediction turned out be spot on.

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/722385618857304065

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

since all your Brexit scare mongering has gone tits up I predict Winterfell will remain part of the UK

My Brexit prediction turned out be spot on.

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/722385618857304065

Nope

the UK economy Is still there

unlike George Osborne

Barnesian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I thought it was only Remainers who were unhappy with this transition deal.

https://twitter.com/GuardianAnushka/status/975805174190104576

Oh thank God.

We have had Remainers make Jacob's arguments for him, now we can finally have the man himself.

Well it confirms that this is a deal I can live with, whilst it isn't what I was after, and I have huge concerns about Northern Ireland, if the Moggster ain't happy, then Mrs May has done good.

You have to admire our PM. She has been doing a masterly boiled frog operation on the Brexiteers. They are beginning to notice the rising temperature but not enough to actually leap out.

The next step up of heat will be the decision to stay in a/the customs union. Parliamentary numbers will force this on her and she will reluctantly agree. Sorry Liam. It's not lack of resolve. It's real politik. No alternative PM could do any better.

So as we approach a very soft BINO, MPs on both sides of the issue will question whether it worth it for so little? Perhaps the people should be consulted? Little by little, step by step.

Ishmael_Z said:

Gardenwalker said:

In all fairness, the elderly and ill-educated should be taxed to pay for the costs of Brexit.

The benefit of course is that they’ll be too slow or stupid to see it coming!

What an unpleasant post. For starters, it is probable, Gaussian distributions being what they are, that there's stacks of people as much cleverer than you as you are thanr the stupid brexity proles, and I doubt you'd accept that being taken as a point in an argument with you, here or elsewhere.

Secondly, we live in a representative democracy and, even better, for some glorious months leading up to June 2016, a direct democracy. You get results in democracies by persuading people about stuff, and you do that by going out on the street and knocking on doors, if you want to claim afterwards that the outcome was of life or death importance to you.. You and the other remoaners seem to subscribe to what has been called the Wykehamist's Fallacy, which is the belief that your view should prevail because you are cleverer than everyone else, quite independently of whether you do anything at all beyond sitting and being clever. Leave won because you are a fat, lazy horp - and that is something I tell myself, as well as you, because I am in the same boat as you are. What I don't do is react to the result like a two year old deprived of his ice cream, and spend my life creating on the internet about how howwid the howwid pwoles are, at a pitch which shatters wineglasses.

FF43 said:

kyf_100 said:

There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.

Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.

My argument is a little different. I accept and have always accepted that it is possible to mitigate Brexit so the damage is contained to an acceptable level. But that requires the UK to cooperate with the EU and accept its rules. The difference is that we no longer have a say on those rules that bind us. We go from being a member state of the EU to a client state.

Sovereignty is important to me. The only semi good reason for leaving the EU is to have more say over our own affairs. But here's the paradox. A vote to leave the EU in the name of sovereignty actually delivers less of it. Moreover Remainers are actually more interested in making choices and the exercise of sovereignty than Leavers, who mostly are mostly attracted by the IDEA of sovereignty and have little interest in making hard choices. The Leaver lack of interest in making choices probably will see the compromised Brexit go ahead, while Remainers will take a BINO in preference to a car crash.

Barnesian said:

Mortimer said:

Barnesian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I thought it was only Remainers who were unhappy with this transition deal.

https://twitter.com/GuardianAnushka/status/975805174190104576

Oh thank God.

We have had Remainers make Jacob's arguments for him, now we can finally have the man himself.

Well it confirms that this is a deal I can live with, whilst it isn't what I was after, and I have huge concerns about Northern Ireland, if the Moggster ain't happy, then Mrs May has done good.

You have to admire our PM. She has been doing a masterly boiled frog operation on the Brexiteers. They are beginning to notice the rising temperature but not enough to actually leap out.

The next step up of heat will be the decision to stay in a/the customs union. Parliamentary numbers will force this on her and she will reluctantly agree. Sorry Liam. It's not lack of resolve. It's real politik. No alternative PM could do any better.

So as we approach a very soft BINO, MPs on both sides of the issue will question whether it worth it for so little? Perhaps the people should be consulted? Little by little, step by step.

Presumably you'll give good odds on us leaving the CU, then, given you're so sure it won't happen.

Let me know what....

Do you know if anyone is giving odds on that? Serious question.

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/975815913005113345

Casino_Royale said:

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

kyf_100 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.

It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.

Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.

I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.

I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.

That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.

You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.

I wouldn’t rise to it.

So you too are relaxed about asking others who bitterly oppose your mad hobbyhorse to make sacrifices so you can enjoy it?

Mortimer said:

Barnesian said:

Mortimer said:

Barnesian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I thought it was only Remainers who were unhappy with this transition deal.

https://twitter.com/GuardianAnushka/status/975805174190104576

Oh thank God.

We have had Remainers make Jacob's arguments for him, now we can finally have the man himself.

Well it confirms that this is a deal I can live with, whilst it isn't what I was after, and I have huge concerns about Northern Ireland, if the Moggster ain't happy, then Mrs May has done good.

You have to admire our PM. She has been doing a masterly boiled frog operation on the Brexiteers. They are beginning to notice the rising temperature but not enough to actually leap out.

The next step up of heat will be the decision to stay in a/the customs union. Parliamentary numbers will force this on her and she will reluctantly agree. Sorry Liam. It's not lack of resolve. It's real politik. No alternative PM could do any better.

So as we approach a very soft BINO, MPs on both sides of the issue will question whether it worth it for so little? Perhaps the people should be consulted? Little by little, step by step.

Presumably you'll give good odds on us leaving the CU, then, given you're so sure it won't happen.

Let me know what....

Do you know if anyone is giving odds on that? Serious question.

I don't, but if you quote a price I might be interested.

dixiedean said:

Some genuine old fashioned investigative journalism from C4 News tonight. More to come tomorrow apparently.
Many questions for Cambridge Analytica and others no doubt.

PClipp said:

Casino_Royale said:

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

kyf_100 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.

It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.

Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.

I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.

I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.

That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.

You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.

I wouldn’t rise to it.

So you too are relaxed about asking others who bitterly oppose your mad hobbyhorse to make sacrifices so you can enjoy it?

If the people elect a Labour government, I won’t throw a tantrum when told to pay higher taxes, even though I’m opposed to them. That’s what living in a democratic nation state means.

A fair enough point. Always provided that the rules for elections are clear and fair, and nobody tries to get round them in order to get themselves a majority of seats in Parliament.

There is a problem here - looking backwards...... Looking forwards, there may be as well....

MikeL said:

Looks like final decision given re Pennsylvania congressional districts for Nov 2018 election.

Both Federal Court and Supreme Court have today thrown out GOP appeal.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/state/pennsylvania-congressional-map-federal-lawsuit-dismissed-gerrymandering-20180319.html

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AlastairMeeks said:

kyf_100 said:

There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.

Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.

Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.

It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.

I am a remain voter but now want to leave but frankly your constant reference to foreigners is not my view post Brexit when I hope we will welcome people from across the world to live and work and contribute to our economy, but importantly we will have control on unrestricted immigration

Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.

It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.

This is the key point. Your scenario is moot because the vast bulk of Leavers think Brexit will make the UK better off economically. They are in denial of reality but that is what they believe with every fibre of their being. Asking about sacrifices is pointless because they don't believe for a second there will be sacrifices.

Over a 20-30+ year horizon, that is very probably right.

The issue is the next 5-10 years.

PClipp said:

Mortimer said:

PClipp said:

Casino_Royale said:

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

kyf_100 said:

Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.

You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.

I wouldn’t rise to it.

So you too are relaxed about asking others who bitterly oppose your mad hobbyhorse to make sacrifices so you can enjoy it?

If the people elect a Labour government, I won’t throw a tantrum when told to pay higher taxes, even though I’m opposed to them. That’s what living in a democratic nation state means.
A fair enough point. Always provided that the rules for elections are clear and fair, and nobody tries to get round them in order to get themselves a majority of seats in Parliament.
There is a problem here - looking backwards...... Looking forwards, there may be as well....

Yawn.

Yawn away, Mr Mortimer. It`s a free country.

But if we have rules governing elections and everybody respects them, then everybody will respect the result.

If on the other hand, one group of people find ways to get round the rules - all quite legally of course, because they have top notch lawyers to advise them how to do so - then the losers do not have to accept the result. The result is illegitimate (even though legally sound).

The problem is that you Tories think the rules do not apply to you - but what you are doing is the undermine the stability of the country. The EU Referendum did not respect the rules, the Conservative campaign in 2017 did not respect the rules, and the 2015 campaign did not respect the rules either.

The government since 2015 has been illegitimate - in my opinion - and I do not respect anything it says or does. Least of all when a lightweight like Boris Johnson turns up to tell us what is what.

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AlastairMeeks said:

kyf_100 said:

There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.

Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.

Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.

It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.

I am a remain voter but now want to leave but frankly your constant reference to foreigners is not my view post Brexit when I hope we will welcome people from across the world to live and work and contribute to our economy, but importantly we will have control on unrestricted immigration

Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.

It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.

This is the key point. Your scenario is moot because the vast bulk of Leavers think Brexit will make the UK better off economically. They are in denial of reality but that is what they believe with every fibre of their being. Asking about sacrifices is pointless because they don't believe for a second there will be sacrifices.

Over a 20-30+ year horizon, that is very probably right.

The issue is the next 5-10 years.

How, over a 20-30+ year horizon can customs controls between the UK and the rest of Europe possibly lead to us being better off than we would otherwise be?

The_Apocalypse said:

Re that Canada poll, looking at the polls provided in that wiki link, that Con 10 point lead looks a bit of an outlier to me.

williamglenn said:

dixiedean said:

Some genuine old fashioned investigative journalism from C4 News tonight. More to come tomorrow apparently.
Many questions for Cambridge Analytica and others no doubt.

What surprised me was how much Cambridge Analytica turns out to be an old-fashioned dirty tricks operation. The fact that they operate through an opaque haze of shell companies also explains some of the conflicting stories about their involvement in Brexit.

Gardenwalker said:

So, bizarrely, Facebook is at Cambridge Analytica’s offices RIGHT NOW.

One presumes there are a lot of hard drives to melt.

Casino_Royale said:

AndyJS said:

Angus Reid, Canada:

Con 40%
Lib 30%
NDP 19%
Green 6%
BQ 4%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_the_43rd_Canadian_federal_election#Pre-campaign_period

Very nice.

Ishmael_Z said:

Gardenwalker said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Gardenwalker said:

t

Ishmael_Z said:

Gardenwalker said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Gardenwalker said:

In all fairness, the elderly and ill-educated should be taxed to pay for the costs of Brexit.



to the result like a two year old deprived of his ice cream, and spend my life creating on the internet about how howwid the howwid pwoles are, at a pitch which shatters wineglasses.

It was a joke, you berk.
As for the rest of your mewling rant, I do not actually complain about the “howwid pwoles”. Just the horrid trolls on here.

"I don't like darkies." (Joke, only kidding, LOL, you berk). Happy with that?

I was not identifying you personally as the Prolefinder General.

Nope. I didn’t joke about race. Whereas, you just went there.

"Went there"? And the point of that post was, very precisely, that it wasn't a joke and wasn't capable of being a joke. i think you need to reassess the you/Leaver intelligence disparity.

No. I made a joke about the old being too slow to evade Brexit taxes. You seemed to take offence and then suggested it was akin to joking about darkies.

Sorry, Ishmael, I just speared your whale.

The rule against prejudice is a *general* rule. You make the common mistake of believing that there is a finite and enumerable list of "protected" minorities, and anyone not on the list is fair game.

PClipp said:

Mortimer said:

PClipp said:

Casino_Royale said:

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

kyf_100 said:

Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.

I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.

You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.

I wouldn’t rise to it.

So you too are relaxed about asking others who bitterly oppose your mad hobbyhorse to make sacrifices so you can enjoy it?

If the people elect a Labour government, I won’t throw a tantrum when told to pay higher taxes, even though I’m opposed to them. That’s what living in a democratic nation state means.
A fair enough point. Always provided that the rules for elections are clear and fair, and nobody tries to get round them in order to get themselves a majority of seats in Parliament.
There is a problem here - looking backwards...... Looking forwards, there may be as well....

Yawn.

Yawn away, Mr Mortimer. It`s a free country.

But if we have rules governing elections and everybody respects them, then everybody will respect the result.

If on the other hand, one group of people find ways to get round the rules - all quite legally of course, because they have top notch lawyers to advise them how to do so - then the losers do not have to accept the result. The result is illegitimate (even though legally sound).

The problem is that you Tories think the rules do not apply to you - but what you are doing is the undermine the stability of the country. The EU Referendum did not respect the rules, the Conservative campaign in 2017 did not respect the rules, and the 2015 campaign did not respect the rules either.

The government since 2015 has been illegitimate - in my opinion - and I do not respect anything it says or does. Least of all when a lightweight like Boris Johnson turns up to tell us what is what.

RobD said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Re that Canada poll, looking at the polls provided in that wiki link, that Con 10 point lead looks a bit of an outlier to me.

Trend looks pretty clear though...

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AlastairMeeks said:

kyf_100 said:

There is more to life than money.

Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.

Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.

It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.

I am a remain voter but now want to leave but frankly your constant reference to foreigners is not my view post Brexit when I hope we will welcome people from across the world to live and work and contribute to our economy, but importantly we will have control on unrestricted immigration

Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.

It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.

This is the key point. Your scenario is moot because the vast bulk of Leavers think Brexit will make the UK better off economically. They are in denial of reality but that is what they believe with every fibre of their being. Asking about sacrifices is pointless because they don't believe for a second there will be sacrifices.

Over a 20-30+ year horizon, that is very probably right.

The issue is the next 5-10 years.

How, over a 20-30+ year horizon can customs controls between the UK and the rest of Europe possibly lead to us being better off than we would otherwise be?

There wont be any. In that period international standards and rules will consolidate and free trade world wide will be the norm

So then why leave the EU?

The Country voted to leave

Foxy said:

RobD said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Re that Canada poll, looking at the polls provided in that wiki link, that Con 10 point lead looks a bit of an outlier to me.

Trend looks pretty clear though...

Basically voters turn on whoever is in power, left, right or centrist if they don't produce enoigh sweeties!

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/975735498353373185

kingbongo said:

The view from the friendliest country to the UK in the EU:

Berlingske headline "Danish Business celebrates as Brexit actually delayed two years" - goes on to talk about an important agreement and finishes with

"Storbritannien igen bøjet af på flere vigtige mærkesager" - Once again the UK gives way on key issues

no doubt from here, this is good news for Denmark especially for the Danish fishing industry which is panicking about the CFP

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kingbongo said:

The view from the friendliest country to the UK in the EU:

Berlingske headline "Danish Business celebrates as Brexit actually delayed two years" - goes on to talk about an important agreement and finishes with

"Storbritannien igen bøjet af på flere vigtige mærkesager" - Once again the UK gives way on key issues

no doubt from here, this is good news for Denmark especially for the Danish fishing industry which is panicking about the CFP

UK coastal waters are returned on the 1st January 2021 - 18 months after Brexit

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/975735498353373185

Nigelb said:

Not so much the prat in the hat, as the prats obsessing over it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-43463496

Anyone who has watched Newsnight more than very occasionally knows that their graphics are amateurish and silly (but often quite amusing) on a regular basis, which has little or nothing to do with political bias, and a lot to do with budget constraints.

kingbongo said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kingbongo said:

The view from the friendliest country to the UK in the EU:

Berlingske headline "Danish Business celebrates as Brexit actually delayed two years" - goes on to talk about an important agreement and finishes with

"Storbritannien igen bøjet af på flere vigtige mærkesager" - Once again the UK gives way on key issues

no doubt from here, this is good news for Denmark especially for the Danish fishing industry which is panicking about the CFP

UK coastal waters are returned on the 1st January 2021 - 18 months after Brexit

indeed but I think the Danes are still hoping the UK will somehow change its mind - and if not that the EU will put the Danish fishing fleet on a par with the Irish border, which they might do as basically the UK has shown it won't walk away so will do pretty much what it's told to.

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/975735498353373185

what is its all time low?

The 519 seats the Tories won in 1994.

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AlastairMeeks said:

kyf_100 said:

There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.

Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.

Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.

It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.

I am a remain voter but now want to leave but frankly your constant reference to foreigners is not my view post Brexit when I hope we will welcome people from across the world to live and work and contribute to our economy, but importantly we will have control on unrestricted immigration

Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.

It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.

This is the key point. Your scenario is moot because the vast bulk of Leavers think Brexit will make the UK better off economically. They are in denial of reality but that is what they believe with every fibre of their being. Asking about sacrifices is pointless because they don't believe for a second there will be sacrifices.

Over a 20-30+ year horizon, that is very probably right.

The issue is the next 5-10 years.

How, over a 20-30+ year horizon can customs controls between the UK and the rest of Europe possibly lead to us being better off than we would otherwise be?