It'd be interesting to see what the status quo scenario looks like, £10bn /annum for ever...
Well this one area which I agree on. Our contributions will be negligible in short order, and we were never going to stiff our own pensioners.
However, that’s a long way from Boris’s “go whistle” and of course we ain’t never seeing that money for the NHS.
And lost economic growth more than compensates for “savings” from our contributions.
You don't think both parties will be going into the next election promising to spend the money otherwise earmarked for the EU on their various pet projects?
They can promise what they want. In practice it will be dwarfed by needing to pay client rates not partner rates for EU agencies we want to be part of, far more than that if we want to replicate regulators ourselves, just as much to farmers, and the loss from inferior trade deals (Liam Fox's stunning brilliance not withstanding.)
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Well indeed. Or a Moonie.
Both parties are now being led on platforms that threaten our jobs and living standards. We are already one of the slowest growing country in the G20, and we’re told to expect several more years of wage stagnation despite the world economy seeing the fastest growth since 2007.
@bbclaurak: Tory MPs angry about fishing compromise set to (please let's call them the fisher people) meet Chief Whip this afternoon, and then PM tomorrow about transition deal
It'd be interesting to see what the status quo scenario looks like, £10bn /annum for ever...
Well this one area which I agree on. Our contributions will be negligible in short order, and we were never going to stiff our own pensioners.
However, that’s a long way from Boris’s “go whistle” and of course we ain’t never seeing that money for the NHS.
And lost economic growth more than compensates for “savings” from our contributions.
You don't think both parties will be going into the next election promising to spend the money otherwise earmarked for the EU on their various pet projects?
They can promise what they want. In practice it will be dwarfed by needing to pay client rates not partner rates for EU agencies we want to be part of, far more than that if we want to replicate regulators ourselves, just as much to farmers, and the loss from inferior trade deals (Liam Fox's stunning brilliance not withstanding.)
But we will be free.
The client rates for those agencies is tiny compared to the cost of EU membership. You are just dreaming up issues where they don't exist.
@bbclaurak: Tory MPs angry about fishing compromise set to (please let's call them the fisher people) meet Chief Whip this afternoon, and then PM tomorrow about transition deal
Theresa needs to get the fishermen to pipe down on this pronto - promise them £350 million a week, say we'll retake our waters with an armada, anything. Fishing and fishermen hold a huge romantic place in the British heart. If the the public get wind we've sold them down the swanny then it will make Theresa look like the ultimate saboteur and completely tarnish the Brexit brand.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Well indeed. Or a Moonie.
Both parties are now being led on platforms that threaten our jobs and living standards. We are already one of the slowest growing country in the G20, and we’re told to expect several more years of wage stagnation despite the world economy seeing the fastest growth since 2007.
But, hey, Moonies. Hur-hur.
Well, there's more to life than money. Simple as that.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.
Seems a rather stuffy insistence. Like champagne it is now a general descriptive term sanctioned by usage, hence the leading capital seems de trop, despite the fact that the etymology is from a proper noun.
Surely a Remainer should capitalise Champagne. It is IIRC a restricted definition. Like Cornish pasties, although the latter doersn’t have a capital P.
Not at all. While it is true that champagne comes only from Champagne and scotch comes only from Scotland, the product names are such major categories and in such common usage that adding a leading capital is clearly de trop. So Aberlour is a kind of scotch and Cristal is a type of champagne. And Davis has scored a pyrrhic victory.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
What an embarrassingly stupid tweet. I presently belong to the AA (cars, not drink). When my membership expires in 3 months I intend to move to the RAC because I find the AA increasingly hopeless and the RAC offer a better deal. If my car breaks down tomorrow and call the AA to fix it do I risk being pointed at and laughed at by a bunch of twitter morons, and why?
They have seen a hard Brexit disappear and a transistion agreement that once signed will ensure we leave the EU
So Remainers are panicking because their nightmare scenario of hard Brexit has disappeared? That's a novel analysis of the psychology of desire. But, of course, hard Brexit hasn't disappeared: the EU can enforce it at any time during the transition period.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
They have seen a hard Brexit disappear and a transistion agreement that once signed will ensure we leave the EU
So Remainers are panicking because their nightmare scenario of hard Brexit has disappeared? That's a novel analysis of the psychology of desire. But, of course, hard Brexit hasn't disappeared: the EU can enforce it at any time during the transition period.
If the idea that human beings are capable of wishing for otherwise disastrous outcomes for the pleasure of saying "I told you so" is novel to you, even after spending time reading this board, I suggest you steer clear of the topic of psychology.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
Eh? Who’s talking about the WTO?
A lot of Remainers have been hoping for no deal/WTO in the belief that Parliament (or the voters via EU Ref 2) would call the whole thing off.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
Eh? Who’s talking about the WTO?
A lot of Remainers have been hoping for no deal/WTO in the belief that Parliament (or the voters via EU Ref 2) would call the whole thing off.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
No need to be offensive
Sozza Big G - was meant to be a rhetorical flourish rather than an insult.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
No need to be offensive
Sozza Big G - was meant to be a rhetorical flourish rather than an insult.
Your first sentence was unnecessary. The rest was your held view and that is fair enough
What an embarrassingly stupid tweet. I presently belong to the AA (cars, not drink). When my membership expires in 3 months I intend to move to the RAC because I find the AA increasingly hopeless and the RAC offer a better deal. If my car breaks down tomorrow and call the AA to fix it do I risk being pointed at and laughed at by a bunch of twitter morons, and why?
The article reminds of those descriptions of Britain you'd see in the foreign media in the 1970s - about how the seat of Empire was now a rotting slum of graffiti-scrawled streets and glue-sniffing skinheads. Nevertheless, one would think that Mr Brexit, who hot footed over to France to get his operation done, wouldn't partake in the sneering at his homeland.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
And poorer. And less powerful.
Oh god yes but I didn’t think Brexiters could cope with more than one idea at a time.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
No need to be offensive
Sozza Big G - was meant to be a rhetorical flourish rather than an insult.
Your first sentence was unnecessary. The rest was your held view and that is fair enough
Yes well we can’t all write like Sean although I found his Sunday Times piece on the Seychelles this weekend surprisingly pedestrian.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
So you think Brexit is a trade off between economics and other issues? It's a shame Brexit campaigners didn't make that case to the people but instead told us Brexit was the route to the economic sunlit uplands.
They have seen a hard Brexit disappear and a transistion agreement that once signed will ensure we leave the EU
So Remainers are panicking because their nightmare scenario of hard Brexit has disappeared? That's a novel analysis of the psychology of desire. But, of course, hard Brexit hasn't disappeared: the EU can enforce it at any time during the transition period.
If the idea that human beings are capable of wishing for otherwise disastrous outcomes for the pleasure of saying "I told you so" is novel to you, even after spending time reading this board, I suggest you steer clear of the topic of psychology.
Please point out, for example, all those Tories on here longing for PM Jezza just so they gloat about crap the far Left is.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
I am a remain voter but now want to leave but frankly your constant reference to foreigners is not my view post Brexit when I hope we will welcome people from across the world to live and work and contribute to our economy, but importantly we will have control on unrestricted immigration
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
Except of course it won't. No matter how much you might wish it to be the case.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
Eh? Who’s talking about the WTO?
A lot of Remainers have been hoping for no deal/WTO in the belief that Parliament (or the voters via EU Ref 2) would call the whole thing off.
I honestly can’t think of any. I think most of the Remainers on here have predicting some kind of fudge for a long time.
So I’m going to put this down to yet more Brexit bullshit.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
Oh yes, I’ve done it myself.
The difference is, I didn’t tell my wife we’d be making even *more* money and promise her an extra 350 a week on fruit and flowers.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
Except of course it won't. No matter how much you might wish it to be the case.
Already has. We’re signing up to it. And we’ll sign up to a “full fettle Brexit” after that.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
I am a remain voter but now want to leave but frankly your constant reference to foreigners is not my view post Brexit when I hope we will welcome people from across the world to live and work and contribute to our economy, but importantly we will have control on unrestricted immigration
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
Oh yes, I’ve done it myself.
The difference is, I didn’t tell my wife we’d be making even *more* money and promise her an extra 350 a week on fruit and flowers.
Your perspective is likely to be tied in to how much money you have at the moment. If it is either lots or none, then the economy potentially going down is less of an issue than if you are somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.
Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
This is probably pointless, but I'll tell you an anecdote from last year's general election.
On the Saturday night before last year's election, my dad got talking to an oldish gentleman at the pub. He said that he was voting Labour for the first time in his life. Why? So that his grandchildren wouldn't have to pay tuition fees (I know, FPTP, safe Tory seat, etc.).
The point is, you should not assume that people vote purely for what's in their own personal best interest.
@bbclaurak: Tory MPs angry about fishing compromise set to (please let's call them the fisher people) meet Chief Whip this afternoon, and then PM tomorrow about transition deal
Theresa needs to get the fishermen to pipe down on this pronto - promise them £350 million a week, say we'll retake our waters with an armada, anything. Fishing and fishermen hold a huge romantic place in the British heart. If the the public get wind we've sold them down the swanny then it will make Theresa look like the ultimate saboteur and completely tarnish the Brexit brand.
I know you are joking, but I’ve always wondered why fishing gets so much attention when it is such a tiny part of our GDP (about 0.3% I think)
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
Except of course it won't. No matter how much you might wish it to be the case.
Already has. We’re signing up to it. And we’ll sign up to a “full fettle Brexit” after that.
Only in your addled brain. Out in the real world it is an entirely different matter
Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
This is probably pointless, but I'll tell you an anecdote from last year's general election.
On the Saturday night before last year's election, my dad got talking to an oldish gentleman at the pub. He said that he was voting Labour for the first time in his life. Why? So that his grandchildren wouldn't have to pay tuition fees (I know, FPTP, safe Tory seat, etc.).
The point is, you should not assume that people vote purely for what's in their own personal best interest.
I don't. But the correlation between those who are prepared to see the economy crash and those who are already retired on index-linked pensions is very noticeable.
They're able to afford their prejudices, or think they can.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
The fact that we have just agreed to a deal that gives us less control of our laws and borders than we currently get as EU members suggests the economy is more important than you claim
@bbclaurak: Tory MPs angry about fishing compromise set to (please let's call them the fisher people) meet Chief Whip this afternoon, and then PM tomorrow about transition deal
Theresa needs to get the fishermen to pipe down on this pronto - promise them £350 million a week, say we'll retake our waters with an armada, anything. Fishing and fishermen hold a huge romantic place in the British heart. If the the public get wind we've sold them down the swanny then it will make Theresa look like the ultimate saboteur and completely tarnish the Brexit brand.
I know you are joking, but I’ve always wondered why fishing gets so much attention when it is such a tiny part of our GDP (about 0.3% I think)
I once pointed out that statistic to an elderly leave-voting relative. His response was that fishing only accounted for such a small percentage of GDP because the EU had stuffed us. Unfettered by the EU, the fishing industry would rival services and finance as a source of national income.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
Except of course it won't. No matter how much you might wish it to be the case.
Already has. We’re signing up to it. And we’ll sign up to a “full fettle Brexit” after that.
Only in your addled brain. Out in the real world it is an entirely different matter
Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
This is probably pointless, but I'll tell you an anecdote from last year's general election.
On the Saturday night before last year's election, my dad got talking to an oldish gentleman at the pub. He said that he was voting Labour for the first time in his life. Why? So that his grandchildren wouldn't have to pay tuition fees (I know, FPTP, safe Tory seat, etc.).
The point is, you should not assume that people vote purely for what's in their own personal best interest.
I don't. But the correlation between those who are prepared to see the economy crash and those who are already retired on index-linked pensions is very noticeable.
They're able to afford their prejudices, or think they can.
Do you think the youth in Scotland should be resentful towards the older voters who kept them in the Union?
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
I am a remain voter but now want to leave but frankly your constant reference to foreigners is not my view post Brexit when I hope we will welcome people from across the world to live and work and contribute to our economy, but importantly we will have control on unrestricted immigration
I know we all try to do it but have you ignored every single one of @HYUFD’s posts?
@bbclaurak: Tory MPs angry about fishing compromise set to (please let's call them the fisher people) meet Chief Whip this afternoon, and then PM tomorrow about transition deal
Theresa needs to get the fishermen to pipe down on this pronto - promise them £350 million a week, say we'll retake our waters with an armada, anything. Fishing and fishermen hold a huge romantic place in the British heart. If the the public get wind we've sold them down the swanny then it will make Theresa look like the ultimate saboteur and completely tarnish the Brexit brand.
I know you are joking, but I’ve always wondered why fishing gets so much attention when it is such a tiny part of our GDP (about 0.3% I think)
I once pointed out that statistic to an elderly leave-voting relative. His response was that fishing only accounted for such a small percentage of GDP because the EU had stuffed us. Unfettered by the EU, the fishing industry would rival services and finance as a source of national income.
You can make a lot of money from fishing. Iceland and Norway do, though with much smaller populations of course. Fishing ought to be a bigger industry, especially given the relative poverty of the East Coast.
@bbclaurak: Tory MPs angry about fishing compromise set to (please let's call them the fisher people) meet Chief Whip this afternoon, and then PM tomorrow about transition deal
Theresa needs to get the fishermen to pipe down on this pronto - promise them £350 million a week, say we'll retake our waters with an armada, anything. Fishing and fishermen hold a huge romantic place in the British heart. If the the public get wind we've sold them down the swanny then it will make Theresa look like the ultimate saboteur and completely tarnish the Brexit brand.
I know you are joking, but I’ve always wondered why fishing gets so much attention when it is such a tiny part of our GDP (about 0.3% I think)
I wonder if a delay on fisheries might have been traded for Gibraltar, actually. Although I have no evidence for that.
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
They have seen a hard Brexit disappear and a transistion agreement that once signed will ensure we leave the EU
So Remainers are panicking because their nightmare scenario of hard Brexit has disappeared? That's a novel analysis of the psychology of desire. But, of course, hard Brexit hasn't disappeared: the EU can enforce it at any time during the transition period.
If the idea that human beings are capable of wishing for otherwise disastrous outcomes for the pleasure of saying "I told you so" is novel to you, even after spending time reading this board, I suggest you steer clear of the topic of psychology.
Please point out, for example, all those Tories on here longing for PM Jezza just so they gloat about crap the far Left is.
I said some people think like that about some things, not everyone thinks like that about everything. The mindset is characteristic of the sulker (cf Achilles in his tent) and Tories qua Tories don't sulk on here in quite the way that some Remainers do. And actually your question is more complicated than that anyway, because there is a reasonable view that a short and disastrous Corbyn caliphate would be in the long term interest of the Tories and the country anyway.
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.
You need to look up what "ad hominem" is.
Once you've done that, you might look up "irony", given you just called me a fascist.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
Except of course it won't. No matter how much you might wish it to be the case.
Already has. We’re signing up to it. And we’ll sign up to a “full fettle Brexit” after that.
Only in your addled brain. Out in the real world it is an entirely different matter
Hehe. Put Tyndall down in the sell-out box.
Showing your ignorance yet again. I argued for a Norway Brexit on here long before we ever voted. I even wrote articles about it. I am very content with progress at the moment.
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.
I wouldn’t rise to it.
So you too are relaxed about asking others who bitterly oppose your mad hobbyhorse to make sacrifices so you can enjoy it?
She doesn't have a hope. Cuomo is popular, and runs a machine that will ride right over her. Mind you, if she commits to cancelling Cuomo's naming of the replacement Tappan Zee Bridge after his father, she should do very well around here!
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
Except of course it won't. No matter how much you might wish it to be the case.
Already has. We’re signing up to it. And we’ll sign up to a “full fettle Brexit” after that.
Only in your addled brain. Out in the real world it is an entirely different matter
Hehe. Put Tyndall down in the sell-out box.
Showing your ignorance yet again. I argued for a Norway Brexit on here long before we ever voted. I even wrote articles about it. I am very content with progress at the moment.
You utter bastard, selling out the majority of those who fell for Leave’s simplistic argument about immigration.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
Except of course it won't. No matter how much you might wish it to be the case.
Already has. We’re signing up to it. And we’ll sign up to a “full fettle Brexit” after that.
Only in your addled brain. Out in the real world it is an entirely different matter
Hehe. Put Tyndall down in the sell-out box.
Showing your ignorance yet again. I argued for a Norway Brexit on here long before we ever voted. I even wrote articles about it. I am very content with progress at the moment.
I know. And undoubtedly in those articles you disputed the idea of Norway as a fax democracy, citing various protections in EFTA.
Protections we ain’t getting, at least for 18 months.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Nothing odd or impressive about it. That's what voters decided, having been very fully warned that their decision would have a deleterious effect on the economy. I'm not so arrogant as to think my opinion that they were mistaken should override their decision, especially since the only relevant new piece of information is that the economic damage is so far less than feared.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
I am a remain voter but now want to leave but frankly your constant reference to foreigners is not my view post Brexit when I hope we will welcome people from across the world to live and work and contribute to our economy, but importantly we will have control on unrestricted immigration
I know we all try to do it but have you ignored every single one of @HYUFD’s posts?
Not sure of the connection. I do not ignore any of Hyufd's posts but I do not always agree with them
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.
You need to look up what "ad hominem" is.
Once you've done that, you might look up "irony", given you just called me a fascist.
My typology of Brexit on the previous thread may also be helpful.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
I am a remain voter but now want to leave but frankly your constant reference to foreigners is not my view post Brexit when I hope we will welcome people from across the world to live and work and contribute to our economy, but importantly we will have control on unrestricted immigration
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
I do not expect many job loses - we will still trade with the EU and beyond
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.
I wouldn’t rise to it.
So you too are relaxed about asking others who bitterly oppose your mad hobbyhorse to make sacrifices so you can enjoy it?
If the people elect a Labour government, I won’t throw a tantrum when told to pay higher taxes, even though I’m opposed to them. That’s what living in a democratic nation state means.
There is more to life than money. As anybody who has ever left a crappy but highly paid job for a less stressful one can attest to.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
Oh I get that many (elderly retired) Leavers would rather see the economy crash than have to deal with foreigners.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
I am a remain voter but now want to leave but frankly your constant reference to foreigners is not my view post Brexit when I hope we will welcome people from across the world to live and work and contribute to our economy, but importantly we will have control on unrestricted immigration
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
I do not expect many job loses - we will still trade with the EU and beyond
We have had Remainers make Jacob's arguments for him, now we can finally have the man himself.
Well it confirms that this is a deal I can live with, whilst it isn't what I was after, and I have huge concerns about Northern Ireland, if the Moggster ain't happy, then Mrs May has done good.
Every remainer post is attacking the transistion deal that ends their argument of a disastrous no deal and WTO and ensures we have left by 1st January 2021
No it’s not you dipstick. Some of us are pointing out the futility of the whole exercise to get us back to a gnat’s bollock of where we started and wonder at a process that can leave us with less democracy than before.
Except of course it won't. No matter how much you might wish it to be the case.
Already has. We’re signing up to it. And we’ll sign up to a “full fettle Brexit” after that.
Only in your addled brain. Out in the real world it is an entirely different matter
Hehe. Put Tyndall down in the sell-out box.
Showing your ignorance yet again. I argued for a Norway Brexit on here long before we ever voted. I even wrote articles about it. I am very content with progress at the moment.
And in your fantasy Norway Brexit, what's your politically acceptable solution for the Irish border, or your logistically acceptable solution for the channel tunnel?
If the people elect a Labour government, I won’t throw a tantrum when told to pay higher taxes, even though I’m opposed to them. That’s what living in a democratic nation state means.
You have quite the entitlement mentality.
You think that Remain supporters are supposed to cheer to the rafters if they lose their jobs because of Brexit because of the referendum result? Get real.
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.
I wouldn’t rise to it.
So you too are relaxed about asking others who bitterly oppose your mad hobbyhorse to make sacrifices so you can enjoy it?
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.
I wouldn’t rise to it.
So you too are relaxed about asking others who bitterly oppose your mad hobbyhorse to make sacrifices so you can enjoy it?
If the people elect a Labour government, I won’t throw a tantrum when told to pay higher taxes, even though I’m opposed to them. That’s what living in a democratic nation state means.
You have quite the entitlement mentality.
If the people elected a Labour government and you argued against that government would you be happy to be called a quisling?
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.
I wouldn’t rise to it.
So you too are relaxed about asking others who bitterly oppose your mad hobbyhorse to make sacrifices so you can enjoy it?
you were quite happy to do so when the shoe was on the other foot
Imagine a Remain supporter. He works in a job that is directly affected by Brexit. He has no interest in the chauvinist delusions displayed by so many Leave supporters. He loses his job. And then he reads on the internet that some numpty thinks that "it's a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws". His reaction would be unprintable.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
Belief in democracy now makes me a "numpty". Charming.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
I don't desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority. I defer to it.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
You're a very rude and unpleasant man and I don't feel inclined to respond to ad hominems.
I wouldn’t rise to it.
So you too are relaxed about asking others who bitterly oppose your mad hobbyhorse to make sacrifices so you can enjoy it?
If the people elect a Labour government, I won’t throw a tantrum when told to pay higher taxes, even though I’m opposed to them. That’s what living in a democratic nation state means.
You have quite the entitlement mentality.
Ignore him. He feeds off responses to his provocations.
We have had Remainers make Jacob's arguments for him, now we can finally have the man himself.
Well it confirms that this is a deal I can live with, whilst it isn't what I was after, and I have huge concerns about Northern Ireland, if the Moggster ain't happy, then Mrs May has done good.
this would be the same NI you wanted to ditch for a tax cut ?
Comments
Both parties are now being led on platforms that threaten our jobs and living standards.
We are already one of the slowest growing country in the G20, and we’re told to expect several more years of wage stagnation despite the world economy seeing the fastest growth since 2007.
But, hey, Moonies. Hur-hur.
https://www.itgovernance.co.uk/dpa-and-gdpr-penalties
Er what?
https://twitter.com/PeterGrantMP/status/975681344712921088
Go Miranda.
https://twitter.com/CynthiaNixon/status/975794613221982209
Pope-ish does as Pope-ish is.
Time and time again remainers make the mistake of arguing that the economy is the only valid argument, when all the evidence points to most people having a more nuanced view. Many evidently consider it a worthy trade off to have more control over our borders and a direct say in those who make our laws. That remainers still don't get this after going all-in on the economic argument two years ago beggars belief.
It's a shame that Leavers have to drag Remain voters who don't share their values down with them.
The MeekBot.
https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2018/02/04/cynthia-nixon-potential-cuomo-challenger-calls-for-better-democrats-to-run-in-2018-234728
His Pope-ish ways scares me and his taking the Catholic Church’s whip.
So I’m going to put this down to yet more Brexit bullshit.
The difference is, I didn’t tell my wife we’d be making even *more* money and promise her an extra 350 a week on fruit and flowers.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/why-jeremy-corbyns-hat-matters/
And we’ll sign up to a “full fettle Brexit” after that.
Their anguish is a joy to behold.
It's all very well Leavers being prepared to make sacrifices for their mad hobbyhorse. But they should not be asking others to make them on their behalves.
On the Saturday night before last year's election, my dad got talking to an oldish gentleman at the pub. He said that he was voting Labour for the first time in his life. Why? So that his grandchildren wouldn't have to pay tuition fees (I know, FPTP, safe Tory seat, etc.).
The point is, you should not assume that people vote purely for what's in their own personal best interest.
They're able to afford their prejudices, or think they can.
Put Tyndall down in the sell-out box.
I can only assume that your desire to ride roughshod over the views of the majority in either your own personal interest or for what you perceive as "the greater good" makes you a fascist.
That doesn't make me like a victory won through xenophobic lies any the more though, and self-deluding tosh about Britain not currently being a democracy does indeed mark you out as a numpty.
You still haven't answered the point about asking others who don't believe in your mania to make sacrifices for a cause they don't subscribe to.
https://twitter.com/GuardianAnushka/status/975805174190104576
Once you've done that, you might look up "irony", given you just called me a fascist.
We have had Remainers make Jacob's arguments for him, now we can finally have the man himself.
Indeed, keeping the Brexit-loons side was, I thought, the notable achievement today.
I feel like there’s been a bit of a wake up and smell the covfefe moment for the loons who are suddenly remembering their principles.
Protections we ain’t getting, at least for 18 months.
You have quite the entitlement mentality.
we should ask you to give more
chortle
The benefit of course is that they’ll be too slow or stupid to see it coming!
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/08/05/alastair-meeks-argues-that-any-cuts-or-tax-rises-caused-by-brexit-be-borne-primarily-by-those-groups-that-voted-leave/