Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU law
Please explain/elaborate. I genuinely didn't understand your post there.
Todays transistion deal is for the period 30th March 2019 to the 31st December 2020 to coincide with the EU 7 year budget cycle that finishes on the 31st December 2020 and Barnier has insisted the date is an integral part of the legal transistion deal and therefore becomes law between the UK-EU and we will be an independent nation on 1st January 2021
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
And in just one year we've from from this to where we are today.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
There are plenty within government and the opposition who are actively considering exactly that.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
It's a backstop solution without any populated annexes.
In practice, it's a political tool to move discussions onto trade in a face-saving way for all parties whilst being light on the specifics.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
We are considering de facto SM membership, where we agree to mirror the entire kit and caboodle, except FOM.
That’s a significant exception of course, but it does mean we expect to take our trading rules from Europe for the foreseeable.
A strange place for the United Kingdom to end up: an economic satellite of the EU.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
There are plenty within government and the opposition who are actively considering exactly that.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
You need to digest the Northern Ireland deal (and think about the practical realities of EU-GB trade generally). The only UK-EU trade deal that would be viable in 2020 consists of the single market and customs union plus other political elements. It's Norway plus plus plus, or Remain.
I've digested more than you have.
And I discount anything you say on the subject, because you're a fanatic that has a bizarre obsession with what I say on the subject.
I think he has an obsession with everyone who does not agree with his view, it is not personal in my opinion
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
We are considering de facto SM membership, where we agree to mirror the entire kit and caboodle, except FOM.
That’s a significant exception of course, but it does mean we expect to take our trading rules from Europe for the foreseeable.
A strange place for the United Kingdom to end up: an economic satellite of the EU.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
And in just one year we've from from this to where we are today.
At least May’s dress sense has improved. She no longer looks like Noddy Holder’s granny.
So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.
Would you? Would you trust him with sensitive information about our security? That really is the problem.
My biggest issue is that he's thick.
He's the sort of idiot that would blurt out sensitive information in an interview or over the despatch box not realising what he was doing.
That's been my takeaway from the whole debacle. He's running a low-wattage bulb, and is apparently guided/controlled by a close circle of advisers whose aims are either murky or barking mad. It has been enjoyable to see Milne being pushed blinking into the sunshine, and reacting like Nosferatu.
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU law
Please explain/elaborate. I genuinely didn't understand your post there.
Todays transistion deal is for the period 30th March 2019 to the 31st December 2020 to coincide with the EU 7 year budget cycle that finishes on the 31st December 2020 and Barnier has insisted the date is an integral part of the legal transistion deal and therefore becomes law between the UK-EU and we will be an independent nation on 1st January 2021
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
We now have three years to make the case for continued membership of the single market.
I'll ignore your inflammatory use of the phrase 'independent nation' – we are already sovereign. The difference between now and the transition period is that we have a say currently and we won't during the transition. But a small price to pay for business certainty.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
There are plenty within government and the opposition who are actively considering exactly that.
And they lost the argument.
Nope. They lost a one-off referendum. Not the same thing at all, I'm afraid.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
There are plenty within government and the opposition who are actively considering exactly that.
And they lost the argument.
Nope. They lost a one-off referendum. Not the same thing at all, I'm afraid.
I thought the Cabinet recnetly reached agreement on this, and those pushing for SM membership lost.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
You need to digest the Northern Ireland deal (and think about the practical realities of EU-GB trade generally). The only UK-EU trade deal that would be viable in 2020 consists of the single market and customs union plus other political elements. It's Norway plus plus plus, or Remain.
I've digested more than you have.
And I discount anything you say on the subject, because you're a fanatic that has a bizarre obsession with what I say on the subject.
I think he has an obsession with everyone who does not agree with his view, it is not personal in my opinion
No, he sees me as a litmus test for whether he's "cracked" the back of Brexit.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
We are considering de facto SM membership, where we agree to mirror the entire kit and caboodle, except FOM.
That’s a significant exception of course, but it does mean we expect to take our trading rules from Europe for the foreseeable.
A strange place for the United Kingdom to end up: an economic satellite of the EU.
I would expect a fig leaf solution on FOM too, eventually, which would suit most business friendly people. The idea that we make it more difficult to hire talent from continental Europe is for the birds. Most of the French people I hire speak better quality English than the average Brit!
Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers. Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.
All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.
Yes, I believe so.
The other countries have to agree to this, but in practice hopefully no one could be arsed to relitigate for the sake of two years trade advantage.
I suspect if the EU hadn't granted this concession we'd have heard a slightly different argument from you on this point.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
There are plenty within government and the opposition who are actively considering exactly that.
And they lost the argument.
Nope. They lost a one-off referendum. Not the same thing at all, I'm afraid.
I thought the Cabinet recnetly reached agreement on this, and those pushing for SM membership lost.
Things can change very rapidly indeed. As we have seen today. Look at the pledge on fishermen!
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU law
Please explain/elaborate. I genuinely didn't understand your post there.
Todays transistion deal is for the period 30th March 2019 to the 31st December 2020 to coincide with the EU 7 year budget cycle that finishes on the 31st December 2020 and Barnier has insisted the date is an integral part of the legal transistion deal and therefore becomes law between the UK-EU and we will be an independent nation on 1st January 2021
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
We now have three years to make the case for continued membership of the single market.
Easy! Put it in your manifesto and win a general election.
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU law
Please explain/elaborate. I genuinely didn't understand your post there.
Todays transistion deal is for the period 30th March 2019 to the 31st December 2020 to coincide with the EU 7 year budget cycle that finishes on the 31st December 2020 and Barnier has insisted the date is an integral part of the legal transistion deal and therefore becomes law between the UK-EU and we will be an independent nation on 1st January 2021
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
We now have three years to make the case for continued membership of the single market.
I'll ignore your inflammatory use of the phrase 'independent nation' – we are already sovereign. The difference between now and the transition period is that we have a say currently and we won't during the transition. But a small price to pay for business certainty.
Sorry if you are upset by the term independent nation but by leaving the EU we make our own laws and trade agreements prohibited by the EU.
On the signature of the transistion deal we are out of the EU on the 1st January 2021. In truth those who want to remain have little over six months to change the narrarive
Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers. Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
Remaniacs
You sound like a cult leader.
And you don't? Why would any Leave voter listen to you when you argue your case with such disdain for theirs?
They don’t have a case, though. That’s the whole problem with Leaving.
You make my point for me.
But you don’t have one. You are pointless. Bereft of reason, Brexiters now only applaud that the end of the tunnel is nearing - one day at a time.
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU law
Please explain/elaborate. I genuinely didn't understand your post there.
Todays transistion deal is for the period 30th March 2019 to the 31st December 2020 to coincide with the EU 7 year budget cycle that finishes on the 31st December 2020 and Barnier has insisted the date is an integral part of the legal transistion deal and therefore becomes law between the UK-EU and we will be an independent nation on 1st January 2021
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
We now have three years to make the case for continued membership of the single market.
Easy! Put it in your manifesto and win a general election.
Two problems with this idea
1. I am not a member of a political party, less so able to influence the content of a manifesto 2. There will be no general election before 2021 (or so we are assured daily on here)
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU law
Please explain/elaborate. I genuinely didn't understand your post there.
Todays transistion deal is for the period 30th March 2019 to the 31st December 2020 to coincide with the EU 7 year budget cycle that finishes on the 31st December 2020 and Barnier has insisted the date is an integral part of the legal transistion deal and therefore becomes law between the UK-EU and we will be an independent nation on 1st January 2021
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
We now have three years to make the case for continued membership of the single market.
I'll ignore your inflammatory use of the phrase 'independent nation' – we are already sovereign. The difference between now and the transition period is that we have a say currently and we won't during the transition. But a small price to pay for business certainty.
Sorry if you are upset by the term independent nation but by leaving the EU we make our own laws and trade agreements prohibited by the EU.
On the signature of the transistion deal we are out of the EU on the 1st January 2021. In truth those who want to remain have little over six months to change the narrarive
The UK *cannot* exist independently of the EU for as long as the EU exists and Ireland is a member of it. That's simply a fact.
Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers. Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.
All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.
Yes, I believe so.
The other countries have to agree to this, but in practice hopefully no one could be arsed to relitigate for the sake of two years trade advantage.
I suspect if the EU hadn't granted this concession we'd have heard a slightly different argument from you on this point.
If the EU hadn’t granted this “concession”, I’d be shitting myself. Once you realise that a failure to agree it would create an almighty mess for everone, you realise it is hardly a “concession”.
For the same reason, I don’t believe all the scare stores about planes being grounded, drivers licenses being unrecognised - and I’m even inclined to take the Nabavi view on Northern Ireland.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU law
Please explain/elaborate. I genuinely didn't understand your post there.
Todays transistion deal is for the period 30th March 2019 to the 31st December 2020 to coincide with the EU 7 year budget cycle that finishes on the 31st December 2020 and Barnier has insisted the date is an integral part of the legal transistion deal and therefore becomes law between the UK-EU and we will be an independent nation on 1st January 2021
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
We now have three years to make the case for continued membership of the single market.
I'll ignore your inflammatory use of the phrase 'independent nation' – we are already sovereign. The difference between now and the transition period is that we have a say currently and we won't during the transition. But a small price to pay for business certainty.
Sorry if you are upset by the term independent nation but by leaving the EU we make our own laws and trade agreements prohibited by the EU.
On the signature of the transistion deal we are out of the EU on the 1st January 2021. In truth those who want to remain have little over six months to change the narrarive
The UK *cannot* exist independently of the EU for as long as the EU exists and Ireland is a member of it. That's simply a fact.
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU law
Please explain/elaborate. I genuinely didn't understand your post there.
Todays transistion deal is for the period 30th March 2019 to the 31st December 2020 to coincide with the EU 7 year budget cycle that finishes on the 31st December 2020 and Barnier has insisted the date is an integral part of the legal transistion deal and therefore becomes law between the UK-EU and we will be an independent nation on 1st January 2021
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
We now have three years to make the case for continued membership of the single market.
I'll ignore your inflammatory use of the phrase 'independent nation' – we are already sovereign. The difference between now and the transition period is that we have a say currently and we won't during the transition. But a small price to pay for business certainty.
Sorry if you are upset by the term independent nation but by leaving the EU we make our own laws and trade agreements prohibited by the EU.
On the signature of the transistion deal we are out of the EU on the 1st January 2021. In truth those who want to remain have little over six months to change the narrarive
The UK *cannot* exist independently of the EU for as long as the EU exists and Ireland is a member of it. That's simply a fact.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
We are considering de facto SM membership, where we agree to mirror the entire kit and caboodle, except FOM.
That’s a significant exception of course, but it does mean we expect to take our trading rules from Europe for the foreseeable.
A strange place for the United Kingdom to end up: an economic satellite of the EU.
I would expect a fig leaf solution on FOM too, eventually, which would suit most business friendly people. The idea that we make it more difficult to hire talent from continental Europe is for the birds. Most of the French people I hire speak better quality English than the average Brit!
I’ve probably hired from every country in the EU. The French are mid-level. The Med countries can be the worst. The Eastern Europeans tend to have made the effort if they are here already. France is much improved from twenty years ago, though.
True that many Brits can’t speak English properly though.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
There are plenty within government and the opposition who are actively considering exactly that.
And they lost the argument.
Nope. They lost a one-off referendum. Not the same thing at all, I'm afraid.
I thought the Cabinet recnetly reached agreement on this, and those pushing for SM membership lost.
Things can change very rapidly indeed. As we have seen today. Look at the pledge on fishermen!
In that case the end state is the same, the UK will be out of the CFP, just a bit later than was initially hoped.
Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers. Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.
All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.
Yes, I believe so.
The other countries have to agree to this, but in practice hopefully no one could be arsed to relitigate for the sake of two years trade advantage.
I suspect if the EU hadn't granted this concession we'd have heard a slightly different argument from you on this point.
If the EU hadn’t granted this “concession”, I’d be shitting myself. Once you realise that a failure to agree it would create an almighty mess for everone, you realise it is hardly a “concession”.
For the same reason, I don’t believe all the scare stores about planes being grounded, drivers licenses being unrecognised - and I’m even inclined to take the Nabavi view on Northern Ireland.
Sorry to disappoint.
I'm not disappointed.
Your hyperbole and facetiousness has spoken for itself on here today.
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU law
Please explain/elaborate. I genuinely didn't understand your post there.
Todays transistion deal is for the period 30th March 2019 to the 31st December 2020 to coincide with the EU 7 year budget cycle that finishes on the 31st December 2020 and Barnier has insisted the date is an integral part of the legal transistion deal and therefore becomes law between the UK-EU and we will be an independent nation on 1st January 2021
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
We now have three years to make the case for continued membership of the single market.
I'll ignore your inflammatory use of the phrase 'independent nation' – we are already sovereign. The difference between now and the transition period is that we have a say currently and we won't during the transition. But a small price to pay for business certainty.
Sorry if you are upset by the term independent nation but by leaving the EU we make our own laws and trade agreements prohibited by the EU.
On the signature of the transistion deal we are out of the EU on the 1st January 2021. In truth those who want to remain have little over six months to change the narrarive
The UK *cannot* exist independently of the EU for as long as the EU exists and Ireland is a member of it. That's simply a fact.
Is that like when you go back in time and meet yourself, causing a temporal paradox ?
"simply a fact'... a novel way to describe an opinion.
This is the point upthread about a fixed timeline versus a vague period of “about two years”. A fixed timeline is to the benefit of the EU as it gives them leverage.
Of course we were never likely to agree otherwise given voices within our own camp demanding that transition be finite and not a one-way ticket to fudgetown.
Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers. Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.
All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.
Yes, I believe so.
The other countries have to agree to this, but in practice hopefully no one could be arsed to relitigate for the sake of two years trade advantage.
I suspect if the EU hadn't granted this concession we'd have heard a slightly different argument from you on this point.
If the EU hadn’t granted this “concession”, I’d be shitting myself. Once you realise that a failure to agree it would create an almighty mess for everone, you realise it is hardly a “concession”.
For the same reason, I don’t believe all the scare stores about planes being grounded, drivers licenses being unrecognised - and I’m even inclined to take the Nabavi view on Northern Ireland.
Sorry to disappoint.
I'm not disappointed.
Your hyperbole and facetiousness has spoken for itself on here today.
You obviously don’t take well to criticism. Must be difficult when your whole policy is bunk.
And we have to discuss it in French, apparently. The humiliation.
It’s amazing how quickly we’ve gone from criticism of a Mar 2019 cliff edge to a Dec 2020 one.
The heads of terms will be agreed by October or December 2018. That gives two years to finesse all the details, which should be enough time to scope and ratify it all.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
There are plenty within government and the opposition who are actively considering exactly that.
And they lost the argument.
Nope. They lost a one-off referendum. Not the same thing at all, I'm afraid.
No one has a lost a referendum on single market membership
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
There are plenty within government and the opposition who are actively considering exactly that.
And they lost the argument.
Nope. They lost a one-off referendum. Not the same thing at all, I'm afraid.
I thought the Cabinet recnetly reached agreement on this, and those pushing for SM membership lost.
Things can change very rapidly indeed. As we have seen today. Look at the pledge on fishermen!
In that case the end state is the same, the UK will be out of the CFP, just a bit later than was initially hoped.
Indeed we might be out of the Single Market later than many of our more extreme brexiteer friends "would have hoped" – 2099 would be acceptable to me.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
There are plenty within government and the opposition who are actively considering exactly that.
And they lost the argument.
Nope. They lost a one-off referendum. Not the same thing at all, I'm afraid.
No one has a lost a referendum on single market membership
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
So let’s get on and agree something then.
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
That’s not going to happen.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
There are plenty within government and the opposition who are actively considering exactly that.
And they lost the argument.
Nope. They lost a one-off referendum. Not the same thing at all, I'm afraid.
I thought the Cabinet recnetly reached agreement on this, and those pushing for SM membership lost.
Things can change very rapidly indeed. As we have seen today. Look at the pledge on fishermen!
In that case the end state is the same, the UK will be out of the CFP, just a bit later than was initially hoped.
Indeed we might be out of the Single Market later than many of our more extreme brexiteer friends "would have hoped" – 2099 would be acceptable to me.
EU membership moving from a freehold to a leasehold basis, with added management charges?
Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan... Why do IDS and the Leavers have to be such moaning minnies on this glorious day? Just rejoice at the news and congratulate our Theresa and DD!
Have you seen the last two threads,that's what the remain side have done all day (Don't forget the insults )
Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.
The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.
Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.
Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)
I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.
Get over it. Today was the day that the anti-immigration Brexiters were finally proven to be the useful idiots.
No, but neither side are considering SM membership, especially not HMG.
I suspect Philip Hammond does discreetly consider SM membership, but is sensible enough not to preempt the issue. Perhaps Mrs May too. To be clear, today's not quite agreement is about a twenty month temporary extension of the status quo. The actual new deal was discussed for the first time last month by a cabinet subgroup. It came up with a totally unrealistic proposal for "managed divergence" that the EU has already rejected. AFAIK, discussions on the shape of a new deal will only be be opened in the Autumn after the status quo extension is signed off.
I’ve probably hired from every country in the EU. The French are mid-level. The Med countries can be the worst. The Eastern Europeans tend to have made the effort if they are here already. France is much improved from twenty years ago, though.
True that many Brits can’t speak English properly though.
Define please: Your current argument is vapid. I ask assuming you are fluent in the local lingo?
Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers. Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.
All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.
Yes, I believe so.
The EU will ask third countries to pretend we're still in the EU.
Thank you both. Although I hope we don't have to find out what happens if a country says no.
Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.
The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.
Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.
Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)
I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.
Get over it. Today was the day that the anti-immigration Brexiters were finally proven to be the useful idiots.
I'm not anti-immigration just controlled immigration, something you don't seem to understand.
Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers. Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.
All that matters is to note that both the UK
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.
Yes, I believe so.
The other countries have to agree to this, but in practice hopefully no one could be arsed to relitigate for the sake of two years trade advantage.
I suspect if the EU hadn't granted this concession we'd have heard a slightly different argument from you on this point.
If the EU hadn’t granted this “concession”, I’d be shitting myself. Once you realise that a failure to agree it would create an almighty mess for everone, you realise it is hardly a “concession”.
For the same reason, I don’t believe all the scare stores about planes being grounded, drivers licenses being unrecognised - and I’m even inclined to take the Nabavi view on Northern Ireland.
Sorry to disappoint.
I'm not disappointed.
Your hyperbole and facetiousness has spoken for itself on here today.
You obviously don’t take well to criticism. Must be difficult when your whole policy is bunk.
You’ve offered nothing but sarcasm and thinly-veiled insults today, not criticism. And you’d be entirely dismissive of any arguments that anyone offered you in any event, merely responding reflexively with your dogmatic one-liners, so I’m very comfortable, thank you.
I’ve probably hired from every country in the EU. The French are mid-level. The Med countries can be the worst. The Eastern Europeans tend to have made the effort if they are here already. France is much improved from twenty years ago, though.
True that many Brits can’t speak English properly though.
Define please: Your current argument is vapid. I ask assuming you are fluent in the local lingo?
I’ve probably hired from every country in the EU. The French are mid-level. The Med countries can be the worst. The Eastern Europeans tend to have made the effort if they are here already. France is much improved from twenty years ago, though.
True that many Brits can’t speak English properly though.
Define please: Your current argument is vapid. I ask assuming you are fluent in the local lingo?
Yes, I speak English. Do you?
Nonono, you're supposed to say that in the style of Jools from Pulp Fiction.
I love the audacity of describing ‘Citizens for Britain’ as a ‘grassroots organisation of stop Brexit Tories’. None of the Remainer members I know wish to reopen the issue and all accept the result, even if they still don’t think it’s the right option.
How can we find out who’s involved with this front, and who’s paid for the poll?
And we have to discuss it in French, apparently. The humiliation.
It’s amazing how quickly we’ve gone from criticism of a Mar 2019 cliff edge to a Dec 2020 one.
The heads of terms will be agreed by October or December 2018. That gives two years to finesse all the details, which should be enough time to scope and ratify it all.
The whole point of setting cliff edges is that your negotiating partners don't go over them. They agree to what you want. This is turning out as predicted.
There will need to be at least one more extension after 2020 and therefore at least two more cliff edges to go. The aim of the first cliff edge was to get the UK to accept a legally binding payment in the tens of billions of euro, extension of residency rights for EU citizens that are here already and a soft border in Northern Ireland. All without having to concede anything on a long term deal. The EU has achieved two and a half of those three objectives and there is still time on the partially achieved objective of the Irish border before the agreement is ratified in the Autumn. In the worst case Ireland gets carried over to the next cliff edge, which will kick in towards the end of next year.
I love the audacity of describing ‘Citizens for Britain’ as a ‘grassroots organisation of stop Brexit Tories’. None of the Remainer members I know wish to reopen the issue and all accept the result, even if they still don’t think it’s the right option.
How can we find out who’s involved with this front, and who’s paid for the poll?
Last time I went to one of their events they said they were self funding/reliant on small donations.
John Stevens and Stephen Dorrell are involved plus a few others.
I love the audacity of describing ‘Citizens for Britain’ as a ‘grassroots organisation of stop Brexit Tories’. None of the Remainer members I know wish to reopen the issue and all accept the result, even if they still don’t think it’s the right option.
How can we find out who’s involved with this front, and who’s paid for the poll?
The first article on their website starts by effectively saying we should stay in th EU. It seems you’ve been associating with saboteurs.
“In just the space of a week, the USA and Russia have shown us why we need to be a part of a major power block like the EU.”
I love the audacity of describing ‘Citizens for Britain’ as a ‘grassroots organisation of stop Brexit Tories’. None of the Remainer members I know wish to reopen the issue and all accept the result, even if they still don’t think it’s the right option.
How can we find out who’s involved with this front, and who’s paid for the poll?
Last time I went to one of their events they said they were self funding/reliant on small donations.
John Stevens and Stephen Dorrell are involved plus a few others.
I’ve probably hired from every country in the EU. The French are mid-level. The Med countries can be the worst. The Eastern Europeans tend to have made the effort if they are here already. France is much improved from twenty years ago, though.
True that many Brits can’t speak English properly though.
Define please: Your current argument is vapid. I ask assuming you are fluent in the local lingo?
Yes, I speak English. Do you?
Newbie,
I speak English very well (and can go from posh-surrey to sarf-luhndahn at-the-drop-of-a-hat):
I hope you were a lurker when I called the "Price of Brent Crude/Barrel")* in AUG/SEPT 2014 (even getting it correct with a drunk-typo - £30**; pfft - at the time). For some reason I doubt it though: It is in my nature to point-out failures.
* Are you gaijin in disguise...? ** Junior will never live this down!
And we have to discuss it in French, apparently. The humiliation.
It’s amazing how quickly we’ve gone from criticism of a Mar 2019 cliff edge to a Dec 2020 one.
The heads of terms will be agreed by October or December 2018. That gives two years to finesse all the details, which should be enough time to scope and ratify it all.
The whole point of setting cliff edges is that your negotiating partners don't go over them. They agree to what you want. This is turning out as predicted.
There will need to be at least one more extension after 2020 and therefore at least two more cliff edges to go. The aim of the first cliff edge was to get the UK to accept a legally binding payment in the tens of billions of euro, extension of residency rights for EU citizens that are here already and a soft border in Northern Ireland. All without having to concede anything on a long term deal. The EU has achieved two and a half of those three objectives and there is still time on the partially achieved objective of the Irish border before the agreement is ratified in the Autumn. In the worst case Ireland gets carried over to the next cliff edge, which will kick in towards the end of next year.
The "once unimaginable concessions" include paying the UK's share of the EU pension fund. Right...
Depends on how long your memory is. It's a far cry from having £350m per week to splash around. But this concession was banked months ago so it seems old hat now - but it really wasn't last Autumn.
Shows the power of dripping the concessions rather than all in one go though.
I’ve probably hired from every country in the EU. The French are mid-level. The Med countries can be the worst. The Eastern Europeans tend to have made the effort if they are here already. France is much improved from twenty years ago, though.
True that many Brits can’t speak English properly though.
Define please: Your current argument is vapid. I ask assuming you are fluent in the local lingo?
Yes, I speak English. Do you?
Newbie,
I speak English very well (and can go from posh-surrey to sarf-luhndahn at-the-drop-of-a-hat):
I hope you were a lurker when I called the "Price of Brent Crude/Barrel")* in AUG/SEPT 2014 (even getting it correct with a drunk-typo - £30**; pfft - at the time). For some reason I doubt it though: It is in my nature to point-out failures.
* Are you gaijin in disguise...? ** Junior will never live this down!
I love the audacity of describing ‘Citizens for Britain’ as a ‘grassroots organisation of stop Brexit Tories’. None of the Remainer members I know wish to reopen the issue and all accept the result, even if they still don’t think it’s the right option.
How can we find out who’s involved with this front, and who’s paid for the poll?
The first article on their website starts by effectively saying we should stay in th EU. It seems you’ve been associating with saboteurs.
“In just the space of a week, the USA and Russia have shown us why we need to be a part of a major power block like the EU.”
The "once unimaginable concessions" include paying the UK's share of the EU pension fund. Right...
Depends on how long your memory is. It's a far cry from having £350m per week to splash around. But this concession was banked months ago so it seems old hat now - but it really wasn't last Autumn.
Shows the power of dripping the concessions rather than all in one go though.
I think the gross figure will still be available. The graph I posted below shows the dramatic fall in contributions to the EU after a few years.
The "once unimaginable concessions" include paying the UK's share of the EU pension fund. Right...
Depends on how long your memory is. It's a far cry from having £350m per week to splash around. But this concession was banked months ago so it seems old hat now - but it really wasn't last Autumn.
Shows the power of dripping the concessions rather than all in one go though.
It’s only about a year since Michael Howard was threatening to declare war on Spain.
I’ve probably hired from every country in the EU. The French are mid-level. The Med countries can be the worst. The Eastern Europeans tend to have made the effort if they are here already. France is much improved from twenty years ago, though.
True that many Brits can’t speak English properly though.
Define please: Your current argument is vapid. I ask assuming you are fluent in the local lingo?
Yes, I speak English. Do you?
Newbie,
I speak English very well (and can go from posh-surrey to sarf-luhndahn at-the-drop-of-a-hat):
I hope you were a lurker when I called the "Price of Brent Crude/Barrel")* in AUG/SEPT 2014 (even getting it correct with a drunk-typo - £30**; pfft - at the time). For some reason I doubt it though: It is in my nature to point-out failures.
* Are you gaijin in disguise...? ** Junior will never live this down!
I wish I could understand what on Earth you are talking about. Are you cutting and pasting modernist poetry?
Seems a rather stuffy insistence. Like champagne it is now a general descriptive term sanctioned by usage, hence the leading capital seems de trop, despite the fact that the etymology is from a proper noun.
It'd be interesting to see what the status quo scenario looks like, £10bn /annum for ever...
Well this one area which I agree on. Our contributions will be negligible in short order, and we were never going to stiff our own pensioners.
However, that’s a long way from Boris’s “go whistle” and of course we ain’t never seeing that money for the NHS.
And lost economic growth more than compensates for “savings” from our contributions.
You don't think both parties will be going into the next election promising to spend the money otherwise earmarked for the EU on their various pet projects?
Seems a rather stuffy insistence. Like champagne it is now a general descriptive term sanctioned by usage, hence the leading capital seems de trop, despite the fact that the etymology is from a proper noun.
Surely a Remainer should capitalise Champagne. It is IIRC a restricted definition. Like Cornish pasties, although the latter doersn’t have a capital P.
And we have to discuss it in French, apparently. The humiliation.
It’s amazing how quickly we’ve gone from criticism of a Mar 2019 cliff edge to a Dec 2020 one.
The heads of terms will be agreed by October or December 2018. That gives two years to finesse all the details, which should be enough time to scope and ratify it all.
The whole point of setting cliff edges is that your negotiating partners don't go over them. They agree to what you want. This is turning out as predicted.
There will need to be at least one more extension after 2020 and therefore at least two more cliff edges to go. The aim of the first cliff edge was to get the UK to accept a legally binding payment in the tens of billions of euro, extension of residency rights for EU citizens that are here already and a soft border in Northern Ireland. All without having to concede anything on a long term deal. The EU has achieved two and a half of those three objectives and there is still time on the partially achieved objective of the Irish border before the agreement is ratified in the Autumn. In the worst case Ireland gets carried over to the next cliff edge, which will kick in towards the end of next year.
Your interpretation of the EU is very lopsided. There were several concessions by them during both the divorce settlement and the transition period.
Once the primary trade deal is concluded by the end of 2020, the EU’s negotiating leverage largely disappears, so I don’t see what cliff edges you see beyond that point.
Of course, Brexit is a process so various transitions will fade away over the next 10 years, but that isn’t the same thing.
It'd be interesting to see what the status quo scenario looks like, £10bn /annum for ever...
Well this one area which I agree on. Our contributions will be negligible in short order, and we were never going to stiff our own pensioners.
However, that’s a long way from Boris’s “go whistle” and of course we ain’t never seeing that money for the NHS.
And lost economic growth more than compensates for “savings” from our contributions.
You don't think both parties will be going into the next election promising to spend the money otherwise earmarked for the EU on their various pet projects?
They can promise what they want. In practice it will be dwarfed by needing to pay client rates not partner rates for EU agencies we want to be part of, far more than that if we want to replicate regulators ourselves, just as much to farmers, and the loss from inferior trade deals (Liam Fox's stunning brilliance not withstanding.)
Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers. Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.
Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
You sound like a cult leader.
Remainers don’t need your praise, support and understanding; they need you to do “a Williamson”.
Nope you guys were the cult fanatics. We are the ones laughing at you as your Moonie beliefs are exposed.
If only the EU had allowed negotiations on a future trading arrangement before now....
Some of us pointed out in advance that getting a deal from the EU would be a laboriously slow process. To say that observation met with consumer resistance from Leavers would be a distinct understatement.
On topic, there's something weirdly impressive that half of Conservative voters are entirely up for threatening British jobs and living standards. I expect most of them would be willing to accuse non-believers in Brexit of being traitors and saboteurs.
Comments
In practice, it's a political tool to move discussions onto trade in a face-saving way for all parties whilst being light on the specifics.
That’s a significant exception of course, but it does mean we expect to take our trading rules from Europe for the foreseeable.
A strange place for the United Kingdom to end up: an economic satellite of the EU.
She no longer looks like Noddy Holder’s granny.
McDonnell is a far, far more dangerous man.
We now have three years to make the case for continued membership of the single market.
I'll ignore your inflammatory use of the phrase 'independent nation' – we are already sovereign. The difference between now and the transition period is that we have a say currently and we won't during the transition. But a small price to pay for business certainty.
https://twitter.com/John2Win/status/975748835774554114
https://twitter.com/Douglas4Moray/status/975756526743904256
So it is personal, in my case.
The humiliation.
On the signature of the transistion deal we are out of the EU on the 1st January 2021. In truth those who want to remain have little over six months to change the narrarive
Whatever.
1. I am not a member of a political party, less so able to influence the content of a manifesto
2. There will be no general election before 2021 (or so we are assured daily on here)
Other than that, great idea.
That’s a step too far if true.
For the same reason, I don’t believe all the scare stores about planes being grounded, drivers licenses being unrecognised - and I’m even inclined to take the Nabavi view on Northern Ireland.
Sorry to disappoint.
True that many Brits can’t speak English properly though.
Your hyperbole and facetiousness has spoken for itself on here today.
"simply a fact'... a novel way to describe an opinion.
A fixed timeline is to the benefit of the EU as it gives them leverage.
Of course we were never likely to agree otherwise given voices within our own camp demanding that transition be finite and not a one-way ticket to fudgetown.
Must be difficult when your whole policy is bunk.
The heads of terms will be agreed by October or December 2018. That gives two years to finesse all the details, which should be enough time to scope and ratify it all.
https://twitter.com/Douglas4Moray/status/975756526743904256
Can I just mark down another insult -lol
How can we find out who’s involved with this front, and who’s paid for the poll?
There will need to be at least one more extension after 2020 and therefore at least two more cliff edges to go. The aim of the first cliff edge was to get the UK to accept a legally binding payment in the tens of billions of euro, extension of residency rights for EU citizens that are here already and a soft border in Northern Ireland. All without having to concede anything on a long term deal. The EU has achieved two and a half of those three objectives and there is still time on the partially achieved objective of the Irish border before the agreement is ratified in the Autumn. In the worst case Ireland gets carried over to the next cliff edge, which will kick in towards the end of next year.
John Stevens and Stephen Dorrell are involved plus a few others.
https://citizens4britain.org/
Here's the main nine people
https://citizens4britain.org/about-us/
That is not a problem, free movement without proper controls is
This is going to be an interesting one to follow.
“In just the space of a week, the USA and Russia have shown us why we need to be a part of a major power block like the EU.”
I speak English very well (and can go from posh-surrey to sarf-luhndahn at-the-drop-of-a-hat):
I hope you were a lurker when I called the "Price of Brent Crude/Barrel")* in AUG/SEPT 2014 (even getting it correct with a drunk-typo - £30**; pfft - at the time). For some reason I doubt it though: It is in my nature to point-out failures.
* Are you gaijin in disguise...?
** Junior will never live this down!
Shows the power of dripping the concessions rather than all in one go though.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYLvjK0WAAApOK_.jpg
It'd be interesting to see what the status quo scenario looks like, £10bn /annum for ever...
The party is better off without such people. It’s good that no current MPs are prepared to associate themselves with the group.
By this time next year, we’ll be in the Euro.
Our contributions will be negligible in short order, and we were never going to stiff our own pensioners.
However, that’s a long way from Boris’s “go whistle” and of course we ain’t never seeing that money for the NHS.
And lost economic growth more than compensates for “savings” from our contributions.
Once the primary trade deal is concluded by the end of 2020, the EU’s negotiating leverage largely disappears, so I don’t see what cliff edges you see beyond that point.
Of course, Brexit is a process so various transitions will fade away over the next 10 years, but that isn’t the same thing.
But we will be free.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMybWCHWEao