politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Survation CON voter poll finds that 50% say Brexit should
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Survation CON voter poll finds that 50% say Brexit should go ahead even if the deal threatened jobs and living standad
There’s a new 1,507 sample Survation poll, restricted just to GE2015/GE2017 Conservative voters, which seeks to get their views on Brexit and related issues. Fieldwork took place last week.
Comments
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Q13 cheers me up0
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Oh and primus inter pares0
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Would be fascinated to know the age breakdown on this.0
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FPT
I think the DUP have gone into conclave on how they are going to sell making Corbyn PM to their voters/members.Pulpstar said:May did say there'd have to be some give and take.
Arlene hasn't piped up yet so far today, the DUP showing admirable restraint perhaps ?
David Davis and Theresa May really have shafted the DUP today.0 -
Yes, and if it happened for real I suspect support would be even higher as the loyalists got behind the PM.TheScreamingEagles said:Q13 cheers me up
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Brenda from Bristol wouldn't be happy though.TheScreamingEagles said:Q13 cheers me up
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FTP
The ultra-Brexiteers live on shifting sands. They've quietly accepted a situation they were lambasting as vassal statehood only a few weeks ago. Gutless wonders. In a sense I'm not bothered by their capitulation - nay, I even welcome it! - but an apology for the hassle they put the rest of us through for no good reason wouldn't go amiss.Richard_Nabavi said:
The odd thing is that you'd expect the criticism to be coming from the ultra-Brexiteers, but they mostly seem to be taking the sensible line on this. It's a funny old world, to be sure.DavidL said:
The frustration of those who told us with such certainty that there would be no deal, that we were heading for a diamond hard Brexit on WTO terms, that May could not deliver her party for anything else and that the loons were in charge of the asylum dooming us all to whatever calamity was getting their attention at that particular moment is palpable.Richard_Nabavi said:
It doesn't pain me, I think that they are making a sensible job of implementing a (mistaken) decision by the British people. It just amuses me to see the logical contortions of the government's critics on the Remain side, who seem to get more and more shrill when Mrs May and DD show some flexibility as they've suggested, rather than going the full Rees-Mogg.williamglenn said:
The government is trying to implement a policy against the national interest, and therefore cannot win whatever it does. I'm sorry if this pains you.Richard_Nabavi said:I am confused, is the criticism of the government by the continuity Remainers that it has been too inflexible, or not inflexible enough?
Is it too early to hope that the Tories have rediscovered their pragmatism? I hope not.0 -
Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.0
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Ian Paisley is probably suggesting he can ask his new best mate Donald Trump to intervene.TheScreamingEagles said:FPT
I think the DUP have gone into conclave on how they are going to sell making Corbyn PM to their voters/members.Pulpstar said:May did say there'd have to be some give and take.
Arlene hasn't piped up yet so far today, the DUP showing admirable restraint perhaps ?
David Davis and Theresa May really have shafted the DUP today.0 -
3 Option referendum would be my preference.Richard_Nabavi said:Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU
ii) Accept the deal
iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms0 -
That's Wales only though.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.Stark_Dawning said:FTP
The ultra-Brexiteers live on shifting sands. They've quietly accepted a situation they were lambasting as vassal statehood only a few weeks ago. Gutless wonders. In a sense I'm not bothered by their capitulation - nay, I even welcome it! - but an apology for the hassle they put the rest of us through for no good reason wouldn't go amiss.Richard_Nabavi said:
The odd thing is that you'd expect the criticism to be coming from the ultra-Brexiteers, but they mostly seem to be taking the sensible line on this. It's a funny old world, to be sure.DavidL said:
The frustration of those who told us with such certainty that there would be no deal, that we were heading for a diamond hard Brexit on WTO terms, that May could not deliver her party for anything else and that the loons were in charge of the asylum dooming us all to whatever calamity was getting their attention at that particular moment is palpable.Richard_Nabavi said:
It doesn't pain me, I think that they are making a sensible job of implementing a (mistaken) decision by the British people. It just amuses me to see the logical contortions of the government's critics on the Remain side, who seem to get more and more shrill when Mrs May and DD show some flexibility as they've suggested, rather than going the full Rees-Mogg.williamglenn said:
The government is trying to implement a policy against the national interest, and therefore cannot win whatever it does. I'm sorry if this pains you.Richard_Nabavi said:I am confused, is the criticism of the government by the continuity Remainers that it has been too inflexible, or not inflexible enough?
Is it too early to hope that the Tories have rediscovered their pragmatism? I hope not.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.0 -
No ,the biggest fraud was joining a common market.Gardenwalker said:
Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.Stark_Dawning said:FTP
The ultra-Brexiteers live on shifting sands. They've quietly accepted a situation they were lambasting as vassal statehood only a few weeks ago. Gutless wonders. In a sense I'm not bothered by their capitulation - nay, I even welcome it! - but an apology for the hassle they put the rest of us through for no good reason wouldn't go amiss.Richard_Nabavi said:
The odd thing is that you'd expect the criticism to be coming from the ultra-Brexiteers, but they mostly seem to be taking the sensible line on this. It's a funny old world, to be sure.DavidL said:
The frustration of those who told us with such certainty that there would be no deal, that we were heading for a diamond hard Brexit on WTO terms, that May could not deliver her party for anything else and that the loons were in charge of the asylum dooming us all to whatever calamity was getting their attention at that particular moment is palpable.Richard_Nabavi said:
It doesn't pain me, I think that they are making a sensible job of implementing a (mistaken) decision by the British people. It just amuses me to see the logical contortions of the government's critics on the Remain side, who seem to get more and more shrill when Mrs May and DD show some flexibility as they've suggested, rather than going the full Rees-Mogg.williamglenn said:
The government is trying to implement a policy against the national interest, and therefore cannot win whatever it does. I'm sorry if this pains you.Richard_Nabavi said:I am confused, is the criticism of the government by the continuity Remainers that it has been too inflexible, or not inflexible enough?
Is it too early to hope that the Tories have rediscovered their pragmatism? I hope not.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.0 -
Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.TheScreamingEagles said:
3 Option referendum would be my preference.Richard_Nabavi said:Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU
ii) Accept the deal
iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms0 -
Feeling OK today, JacobRees@GardenWalker ?0
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You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
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Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.Pulpstar said:
Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.TheScreamingEagles said:
3 Option referendum would be my preference.Richard_Nabavi said:Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU
ii) Accept the deal
iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms0 -
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How does AV work again? We need more threads on voting systems.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.Pulpstar said:
Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.TheScreamingEagles said:
3 Option referendum would be my preference.Richard_Nabavi said:Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU
ii) Accept the deal
iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms0 -
Why were you worrying about the WIndies?TheScreamingEagles said:
That's Wales only though.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Yes.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.
Whereas all they have done is bow to the inevitable.
PS it’s not a soft Brexit. It’s still a hard Brexit (ex-single market, customs union).0 -
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.0 -
More evidence that no price is too high for many brexiteers – Brexit is a cult whereby negative economic and societal consequences are considered trifling collateral damage.0
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I can’t even remember what AV stands for anymore....Anorak said:
How does AV work again? We need more threads on voting systems.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.Pulpstar said:
Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.TheScreamingEagles said:
3 Option referendum would be my preference.Richard_Nabavi said:Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU
ii) Accept the deal
iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms0 -
In a little over two months I begin a near three week stint as editor of PB I’ll do regular threads on AV for you.Anorak said:
How does AV work again? We need more threads on voting systems.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.Pulpstar said:
Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.TheScreamingEagles said:
3 Option referendum would be my preference.Richard_Nabavi said:Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU
ii) Accept the deal
iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
If you’re lucky I’ll do daily threads on AV.0 -
Arsey voters, I think.RobD said:
I can’t even remember what AV stands for anymore....Anorak said:
How does AV work again? We need more threads on voting systems.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.Pulpstar said:
Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.TheScreamingEagles said:
3 Option referendum would be my preference.Richard_Nabavi said:Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU
ii) Accept the deal
iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms0 -
Conducted under AV, or two stage exhaustive ballot?TheScreamingEagles said:
3 Option referendum would be my preference.Richard_Nabavi said:Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU
ii) Accept the deal
iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms0 -
Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
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Makes you wonder why we're even bothering, doesn't it.DavidL said:
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.0 -
Before we joined the common market,what was our cult then ?Anazina said:More evidence that no price is too high for many brexiteers – Brexit is a cult whereby negative economic and societal consequences are considered trifling collateral damage.
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They were trying to hit every ball for six and getting out.DavidL said:
Why were you worrying about the WIndies?TheScreamingEagles said:
That's Wales only though.CarlottaVance said:
They lost 4 for 20 and their captain was out second ball for six.0 -
Er, why?Tykejohnno said:
No ,the biggest fraud was joining a common market.Gardenwalker said:
Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.Stark_Dawning said:FTP
The ultra-Brexiteers live on shifting sands. They've quietly accepted a situation they were lambasting as vassal statehood only a few weeks ago. Gutless wonders. In a sense I'm not bothered by their capitulation - nay, I even welcome it! - but an apology for the hassle they put the rest of us through for no good reason wouldn't go amiss.Richard_Nabavi said:
The odd thing is that you'd expect the criticism to be coming from the ultra-Brexiteers, but they mostly seem to be taking the sensible line on this. It's a funny old world, to be sure.DavidL said:
The frustration of those who told us with such certainty that there would be no deal, that we were heading for a diamond hard Brexit on WTO terms, that May could not deliver her party for anything else and that the loons were in charge of the asylum dooming us all to whatever calamity was getting their attention at that particular moment is palpable.Richard_Nabavi said:
It doesn't pain me, I think that they are making a sensible job of implementing a (mistaken) decision by the British people. It just amuses me to see the logical contortions of the government's critics on the Remain side, who seem to get more and more shrill when Mrs May and DD show some flexibility as they've suggested, rather than going the full Rees-Mogg.williamglenn said:
The government is trying to implement a policy against the national interest, and therefore cannot win whatever it does. I'm sorry if this pains you.Richard_Nabavi said:I am confused, is the criticism of the government by the continuity Remainers that it has been too inflexible, or not inflexible enough?
Is it too early to hope that the Tories have rediscovered their pragmatism? I hope not.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.0 -
You’ll have to dig out that inevitable calamity post, I’m afraid. You’ve addled yourself again.DavidL said:
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.0 -
There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.DavidL said:
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.0 -
Nope.Anorak said:
Makes you wonder why we're even bothering, doesn't it.DavidL said:
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.0 -
The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.Gardenwalker said:Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.
Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.
Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
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I'd have thought ranked-pairs would be the most suitable voting system for this.TheValiant said:
Conducted under AV, or two stage exhaustive ballot?TheScreamingEagles said:
3 Option referendum would be my preference.Richard_Nabavi said:Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU
ii) Accept the deal
iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms0 -
You sound like a cult leader.Richard_Tyndall said:
Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
Remainers don’t need your praise, support and understanding; they need you to do “a Williamson”.0 -
On topic, question 13 simply shows the loyalty of Conservative voters in supporting the official position of the Conservative Government.
It doesn't tell us very much about whether Conservative voters support a second referendum in the abstract, to which the first question listed is probably more instructive.0 -
FPT:
I don't think Barnier and Davis will ever be bosom buddies, but their relationship is professional. Below the top level, when you get to the guys and gals actually negotiating much of the detail, the relationships are actually pretty good.RobD said:
Easy to capture awkward looking stills from a video. The two seem to get on quite well, from what I have seen.Anorak said:
There is a world of difference between the tweets from politicians, and the actual detail of the negotiation. Yes there are sticking points, but there is a genuine belief on both sides that no deal is not a viable option.
Could we have done a better job in these negotiations? Yes. I think we started with the tone all wrong and lost six months of progress because of that. However, things seem to be moving in very much the right direction now.
Things I would have done differently: I'd have had a more explicit staggered transition period, with the customs union part ending last (simply because two years is not a lot of time to replicate existing deals, and makes us the desperate party in negotiations). But other than that, I think things have gone OK.
Now, of course, the focus is going to move to Dr Fox.0 -
What about those who appreciate that all of the shenanigans amounts to a hill of beans. Substantially nothing will change, we will still be de facto members until further notice, and be under the auspices of the EU. Yes, trade deals with Tonga notwithstanding. It will be BINO, which is great, but our overwhelming reaction is: all that for what? It is the sheer pointlessness of it that make true patriots despair.Richard_Tyndall said:
Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.0 -
It's similar to the way some posters were simultaneously complaining that we were provoking Russia, at the same time as being insufficiently bellicose.Richard_Tyndall said:
Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.0 -
Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.Casino_Royale said:
There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.DavidL said:
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.0 -
You need to digest the Northern Ireland deal (and think about the practical realities of EU-GB trade generally). The only UK-EU trade deal that would be viable in 2020 consists of the single market and customs union plus other political elements. It's Norway plus plus plus, or Remain.Casino_Royale said:Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
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And you don't? Why would any Leave voter listen to you when you argue your case with such disdain for theirs?Gardenwalker said:
You sound like a cult leader.Richard_Tyndall said:
Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.0 -
I can't get my head round the "you haven't done the terrible thing we've been warning about" arguments. Is being proved "right" that important to them?Richard_Tyndall said:Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.
Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
Anyway another step was taken towards leaving the EU, and that's what actually matters.0 -
When Fox's interlocutors ask him which customs territory he is negotiating for, what should he answer?rcs1000 said:Things I would have done differently: I'd have had a more explicit staggered transition period, with the customs union part ending last (simply because two years is not a lot of time to replicate existing deals, and makes us the desperate party in negotiations). But other than that, I think things have gone OK.
Now, of course, the focus is going to move to Dr Fox.
By the way your position has changed 180 degrees from before the referendum when you backed the idea of blackmailing our way into the EEA by rejoining EFTA, something that, even if it could be done, would leave us outside the customs union overnight.0 -
We'll give you that on one condition: the electorate is restricted to those who voted to Leave....TheScreamingEagles said:
3 Option referendum would be my preference.Richard_Nabavi said:Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU
ii) Accept the deal
iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms0 -
Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)glw said:
The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.Gardenwalker said:Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.
Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.
Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.0 -
It seems all those who want to remain have attempted to make mischief with the transistion deal because, once in a legal agreement, enshrines Brexit in UK - EU law and ends their hopes of stopping it0
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Personally I don't care what the transition period amounts to providing it is not too long. So I'm happy enough with what's been drafted. The main thing is that we can now move on to the stuff that really matters.Tykejohnno said:Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)
I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.
0 -
So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.CarlottaVance said:0 -
+1glw said:
I can't get my head round the "you haven't done the terrible thing we've been warning about" arguments. Is being proved "right" that important to them?Richard_Tyndall said:Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.
Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
Anyway another step was taken towards leaving the EU, and that's what actually matters.0 -
Indeed there is now plenty of time in the system to work towards such a deal. A very good day for eurosanity.williamglenn said:
You need to digest the Northern Ireland deal (and think about the practical realities of EU-GB trade generally). The only UK-EU trade deal that would be viable in 2020 consists of the single market and customs union plus other political elements. It's Norway plus plus plus, or Remain.Casino_Royale said:Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
0 -
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You are Seamus Milne and I claim my five roubles.....TheScreamingEagles said:
So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.CarlottaVance said:0 -
You aren't telling us that OGH is away on holiday, surely? That's a guarantee of interesting times.TheScreamingEagles said:
In a little over two months I begin a near three week stint as editor of PB I’ll do regular threads on AV for you.Anorak said:
How does AV work again? We need more threads on voting systems.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.Pulpstar said:
Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.TheScreamingEagles said:
3 Option referendum would be my preference.Richard_Nabavi said:Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU
ii) Accept the deal
iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
If you’re lucky I’ll do daily threads on AV.
Good afternoon, everyone.0 -
Possibly an unsuccessful attempt to improve their NRR but they brought it home safely enough.TheScreamingEagles said:
They were trying to hit every ball for six and getting out.DavidL said:
Why were you worrying about the WIndies?TheScreamingEagles said:
That's Wales only though.CarlottaVance said:
They lost 4 for 20 and their captain was out second ball for six.0 -
They don’t have a case, though.Casino_Royale said:
And you don't? Why would any Leave voter listen to you when you argue your case with such disdain for theirs?Gardenwalker said:
You sound like a cult leader.Richard_Tyndall said:
Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
That’s the whole problem with Leaving.0 -
Note. I've added another finding from the poll to the heafer0
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The most important thing about Brexit is that it happens ASAP.0
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Crazy snowy still out in the Devon lanes today. It's like the Cresta Run going to the shops - to find that they are nearly all closed, because the lanes are, er, like the Cresta Run.....0
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Would you? Would you trust him with sensitive information about our security? That really is the problem.TheScreamingEagles said:
So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.CarlottaVance said:0 -
The wording of the question is so convoluted it might as well say, "If your MP could find a way for us to save face while agreeing to stay in the EU, would you support such an arrangement?"MikeSmithson said:Note. I've added another finding from the poll to the header
0 -
Absolutely not, Seumas Milne read PPE, I read a real degree.MarqueeMark said:
You are Seamus Milne and I claim my five roubles.....TheScreamingEagles said:
So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.CarlottaVance said:0 -
-
He'll have received a briefing direct from Putin. He'll know more than May.CarlottaVance said:0 -
My biggest issue is that he's thick.DavidL said:
Would you? Would you trust him with sensitive information about our security? That really is the problem.TheScreamingEagles said:
So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.CarlottaVance said:
He's the sort of idiot that would blurt out sensitive information in an interview or over the despatch box not realising what he was doing.0 -
And so it begins.Scott_P said:0 -
Called it.Scott_P said:0 -
The eagle-eyed (not many on here) will have noticed that the Northern Ireland protocol refers to *a* common regulatory area for goods for Northern Ireland, and protecting north-south co-operation, not membership of *the* Single Market and *the* Customs Union.
Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
Goods in Annex 2.1
Customs legislation in annex 2.2
VAT in annex 2.3
Excise in annex 2.4
Sanitary/phytosanitary on annex 2.5
Agriculture/fisheries on annex 2.6
Electricity on annex 2.7
Environment on annex 2.8
State aid in annex 2.9
As far as I can tell, these annexes are not populated yet. That's almost certainly because it's impossible to finalise the Northern Irish border question - even for its transition - until the trade deal itself is agreed.
However, it's a useful pointer to where negotiations may be heading: the UK will want a shorter list in those annexes than in the EU, but it looks broadly in line with Theresa's Mansion House speech to me.0 -
Not going to happen. The wording is clear that EU nationals arriving in the transitionary period will command the same rights as those who arrive before. A rather business friendly settlement – about 50% of our employees are EU nationals and I would rather not reduce their recruitment rate.Tykejohnno said:
Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)glw said:
The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.Gardenwalker said:Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.
Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.
Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.0 -
Off-topic:
I just went to pick up the little 'un from preschool, and received a letter to say that theirs was one of the schools that got a bomb threat this morning:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43457548
I wonder what this little hoax cost the authorities?0 -
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solutionCasino_Royale said:Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
0 -
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.Scott_P said:0 -
I have no problem with the transistion agreementAnazina said:
Not going to happen. The wording is clear that EU nationals arriving in the transitionary period will command the same rights as those who arrive before. A rather business friendly settlement – about 50% of our employees are EU nationals and I would rather not reduce their recruitment rate.Tykejohnno said:
Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)glw said:
The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.Gardenwalker said:Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.
Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.
Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.0 -
Agreewilliamglenn said:
The wording of the question is so convoluted it might as well say, "If your MP could find a way for us to save face while agreeing to stay in the EU, would you support such an arrangement?"MikeSmithson said:Note. I've added another finding from the poll to the header
It was commissioned by a body called Citizens for Britain which is a grass roots organisation of stop Brexit Tories.
0 -
Good. Not that I ever suggested you did!Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have no problem with the transistion agreementAnazina said:
Not going to happen. The wording is clear that EU nationals arriving in the transitionary period will command the same rights as those who arrive before. A rather business friendly settlement – about 50% of our employees are EU nationals and I would rather not reduce their recruitment rate.Tykejohnno said:
Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)glw said:
The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.Gardenwalker said:Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.
Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.
Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.0 -
The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU lawAnazina said:
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.Scott_P said:0 -
So let’s get on and agree something then.williamglenn said:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solutionCasino_Royale said:Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
0 -
It also means that any solution that would lead to a hard(er) border on the Foyle prevents the whole UK leaving the single market i.e. the sanctity of a borderless Ireland is preeminent over leaving the EU.williamglenn said:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solutionCasino_Royale said:Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
0 -
You make my point for me.Gardenwalker said:
They don’t have a case, though.Casino_Royale said:
And you don't? Why would any Leave voter listen to you when you argue your case with such disdain for theirs?Gardenwalker said:
You sound like a cult leader.Richard_Tyndall said:
Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
That’s the whole problem with Leaving.0 -
Please explain/elaborate. I genuinely didn't understand your post there.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU lawAnazina said:
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.Scott_P said:0 -
Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan... Why do IDS and the Leavers have to be such moaning minnies on this glorious day? Just rejoice at the news and congratulate our Theresa and DD!Scott_P said:0 -
I've digested more than you have.williamglenn said:
You need to digest the Northern Ireland deal (and think about the practical realities of EU-GB trade generally). The only UK-EU trade deal that would be viable in 2020 consists of the single market and customs union plus other political elements. It's Norway plus plus plus, or Remain.Casino_Royale said:Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
And I discount anything you say on the subject, because you're a fanatic that has a bizarre obsession with what I say on the subject.0 -
RobD said:
So let’s get on and agree something then.williamglenn said:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solutionCasino_Royale said:Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.0 -
You only read? For PPE you have to do some writing too. And draw graphs in the Economics exams.TheScreamingEagles said:
Absolutely not, Seumas Milne read PPE, I read a real degree.MarqueeMark said:
You are Seamus Milne and I claim my five roubles.....TheScreamingEagles said:
So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Yes, I believe so.tpfkar said:
Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.Casino_Royale said:
There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.DavidL said:
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.0 -
That’s not going to happen.Anazina said:RobD said:
So let’s get on and agree something then.williamglenn said:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solutionCasino_Royale said:Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.0 -
The attack lines for Lab at the next GE are writing themselves. However accurate those charges are, they will be used time and again to criticise the Cons.Anazina said:
Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.Scott_P said:0 -
wallyglen and the Meekoid,
You're not singing any more.
You're not singing any more!
Who are yah, who are yah?
Are you Kiwis in disguise?
0 -
But you don’t have one. You are pointless.Casino_Royale said:
You make my point for me.Gardenwalker said:
They don’t have a case, though.Casino_Royale said:
And you don't? Why would any Leave voter listen to you when you argue your case with such disdain for theirs?Gardenwalker said:
You sound like a cult leader.Richard_Tyndall said:
Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
That’s the whole problem with Leaving.
Bereft of reason, Brexiters now only applaud that the end of the tunnel is nearing - one day at a time.
Except for blue passports of course.0 -
That appears to be their default state of being...Stark_Dawning said:Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan... Why do IDS and the Leavers have to be such moaning minnies
0 -
The EU will ask third countries to pretend we're still in the EU.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, I believe so.tpfkar said:
Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.Casino_Royale said:
There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.DavidL said:
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
0 -
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.RobD said:
That’s not going to happen.Anazina said:RobD said:
So let’s get on and agree something then.williamglenn said:
This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solutionCasino_Royale said:Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:
Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.0 -
The other countries have to agree to this, but in practice hopefully no one could be arsed to relitigate for the sake of two years trade advantage.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, I believe so.tpfkar said:
Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.Casino_Royale said:
There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.DavidL said:
He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.glw said:
You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?Gardenwalker said:Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.
It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.
Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.0
