So actually if look at the sheer scale of the change Brexit is, the narrowness of the referendum result, the calamity of the GE result and the fact their has been no Remainer buy in to the core project the real question is this. Why is it going so well ?
On any objective basis we should be seeing capital flight and a much bigger devaluation by now as well as far more professional politicans trying to flee the blast radius instead of meekly carrying out the will of the people. The Markets seem to have priced in eventual sanity and under priced the trains of August.
I predicted disaster and still do. But I have to admit by November 2017 it's been a smoother ride so far than I predicted.
That is probably because people are still assuming that there will be a deal. But if in December the EU tells Britain that it has not done enough and that the next time to make a decision on even starting trade talks will be in March 2018 barely a year before exit date, then panic is likely to set in. Industries affected will start enacting contingency plans etc. And people will start to realise that time is very short indeed for any sort of deal to be done.
I am hopeless at predictions. I thought there would be a lot more sense on both sides of this negotiation than there has been. But if there is going to be some sort of a crisis, some sort of a "Holy Jesus: we really are up shit creek without a paddle!" moment then I suspect it will come in Q1 2018.
I hope I'm wrong. But we have incompetent loons in charge.........
What I expect is that within the next few weeks, the government will make a pretty substantial offer of a financial settlement to the EU. Then, either we'll move to trade talks, or we'll be told to sod off. If the latter, then we'll have to prepare for no deal.
If UK makes an offer greater than £50bn, then there will be a big shift to Remain. Apart from the fact that we were told that we owed them nothing, large numbers of people will conclude that if a deal with the EU is so important, we might as well stay in.
No it wont - just wishful thinking - most would be relieved to just get on with it
I read this on Quora today, and thought it a great anecdote to share. The question was about the similarities between LBJ and Trump:
In 1961 Lyndon Johnson visited Pakistan on a goodwill tour. He plunged into a crowd and began shaking hands, saying as he did so, “Y’all come to Washington and see us sometime.”
Americans know that a remark like this this is a conversational filler, not intended to be taken literally any more than “How are you?” by anyone other than a doctor is a request for one’s medical history. But a reporter heard Johnson say it to an impoverished camel-cart driver named Bashir Ahmad. The next day the reporter’s newspaper blared the news that the vice president of the United States had invited Ahmad to visit him in Washington.
Now try to envision Donald Trump in Johnson’s place. First, he’s a germophobe. He wouldn’t have shaken hands with a crowd of poor Muslims who only washed their hands when it was time for their daily prayers, and who usually ate with their fingers for lack of flatware.
And even if he’d said, “Y’all come to Washington and see us sometime,” once it was reported in the Pakistani press he would have called it fake news. Nor would he have invited Ahmad to the White House, much less his Trump Tower penthouse.
Yet Johnson made it happen. He arranged for a charitable foundation to fly Ahmad to the United States, where he met President Kennedy and former President Truman. He also visited the LBJ Ranch. As a final gesture, Johnson routed Ahmad’s flight home through Mecca so that Ahmad, who never could have afforded the trip on his own, could fulfill his religious duty to make the hajj. Ahmad was overcome with gratitude, and the president of Pakistan said Johnson had done more than anyone else to improve U.S.-Pakistani relations.
Now imagine Trump in the same situation. He’s not only not improving relations with countries that are wary of us, he’s alienating longtime allies. He’d certainly never think of treating a Muslim to a visit to Mecca. Not only would his base be horrified, but he’d be convinced that while Ahmad was in Islam’s holiest city, he’d turn into a jihadi who would come back to the United States at his first opportunity and commit a terrorist act.
Johnson made a terrible mistake by deciding to escalate the Vietnam war, and it’s unfortunate that this is what he’s remembered for. But in his ability to connect with and help the less fortunate without worrying that he was somehow debasing himself or betraying his social class, he was more of an alpha male than Trump will ever be.
Johnson’s legacy will be for ever tarnished by Vietnam. Which is tragic becaue he was probably as near a Social Democratic president as the US will have for many, many years.
So actually if look at the sheer scale of the change Brexit is, the narrowness of the referendum result, the calamity of the GE result and the fact their has been no Remainer buy in to the core project the real question is this. Why is it going so well ?
On any objective basis we should be seeing capital flight and a much bigger devaluation by now as well as far more professional politicans trying to flee the blast radius instead of meekly carrying out the will of the people. The Markets seem to have priced in eventual sanity and under priced the trains of August.
I predicted disaster and still do. But I have to admit by November 2017 it's been a smoother ride so far than I predicted.
That is probably because people are still assuming that there will be a deal. But if in December the EU tells Britain that it has not done enough and that the next time to make a decision on even starting trade talks will be in March 2018 barely a year before exit date, then panic is likely to set in. Industries affected will start enacting contingency plans etc. And people will start to realise that time is very short indeed for any sort of deal to be done.
I am hopeless at predictions. I thought there would be a lot more sense on both sides of this negotiation than there has been. But if there is going to be some sort of a crisis, some sort of a "Holy Jesus: we really are up shit creek without a paddle!" moment then I suspect it will come in Q1 2018.
I hope I'm wrong. But we have incompetent loons in charge.........
What I expect is that within the next few weeks, the government will make a pretty substantial offer of a financial settlement to the EU. Then, either we'll move to trade talks, or we'll be told to sod off. If the latter, then we'll have to prepare for no deal.
If UK makes an offer greater than £50bn, then there will be a big shift to Remain. Apart from the fact that we were told that we owed them nothing, large numbers of people will conclude that if a deal with the EU is so important, we might as well stay in.
No it wont - just wishful thinking - most would be relieved to just get on with it
Indeed, there may be a shift to UKIP with a £50 billion exit payment but not to Remain.
It is a thing I seriously don't understand about the more precious Remoaners: if 52% of your voting fellow countrymen are xenophobic bigots, and half the posters here are swivel eyed loons, what are you doing in the country and on the forum, respectively?
Apparently you are not very good at sums either.
Nobody is saying 52% of the voting public are xenophobic bigots.
You only needed 2% of them to be xenophobic bigots to win the vote...
Not all Leave voters are xenophobic bigots, but all the xenophobic bigots voted Leave
It is a thing I seriously don't understand about the more precious Remoaners: if 52% of your voting fellow countrymen are xenophobic bigots, and half the posters here are swivel eyed loons, what are you doing in the country and on the forum, respectively?
Apparently you are not very good at sums either.
Nobody is saying 52% of the voting public are xenophobic bigots.
You only needed 2% of them to be xenophobic bigots to win the vote...
Not all Leave voters are xenophobic bigots, but all the xenophobic bigots voted Leave
Most Sinn Fein supporters voted Remain, so that's one group of xenophobic bigots who voted with you.
It is a thing I seriously don't understand about the more precious Remoaners: if 52% of your voting fellow countrymen are xenophobic bigots, and half the posters here are swivel eyed loons, what are you doing in the country and on the forum, respectively?
Apparently you are not very good at sums either.
Nobody is saying 52% of the voting public are xenophobic bigots.
You only needed 2% of them to be xenophobic bigots to win the vote...
Not all Leave voters are xenophobic bigots, but all the xenophobic bigots voted Leave
I just think all name calling should stop. It does not help anyone's argument
It is a thing I seriously don't understand about the more precious Remoaners: if 52% of your voting fellow countrymen are xenophobic bigots, and half the posters here are swivel eyed loons, what are you doing in the country and on the forum, respectively?
Apparently you are not very good at sums either.
Nobody is saying 52% of the voting public are xenophobic bigots.
You only needed 2% of them to be xenophobic bigots to win the vote...
Not all Leave voters are xenophobic bigots, but all the xenophobic bigots voted Leave
Most Sinn Fein supporters voted Remain, so that's one group of xenophobic bigots who voted with you.
It is a thing I seriously don't understand about the more precious Remoaners: if 52% of your voting fellow countrymen are xenophobic bigots, and half the posters here are swivel eyed loons, what are you doing in the country and on the forum, respectively?
Apparently you are not very good at sums either.
Nobody is saying 52% of the voting public are xenophobic bigots.
You only needed 2% of them to be xenophobic bigots to win the vote...
Not all Leave voters are xenophobic bigots, but all the xenophobic bigots voted Leave
Most Sinn Fein supporters voted Remain, so that's one group of xenophobic bigots who voted with you.
So did Jeremy Corbyn (or at least, he says he did which given his track record is not necessarily the same thing of course).
And I assume Emma Dent Coad and most of Momentum did as well.
So that's a fair number of people who could pass for xenophobic bigots in a clear light whom I have the embarrassment of admitting voted the same way as me.
Nor can we ignore the fact the GE result is chronologically superior to the Referendum result. We were asked to endorse May's Brexit position with a bigger majority and we took away the small majority she had. Was the General Election result not also " the will of the people " ? In less than a year the will of the people was a sub 4% winning margin in a national referendum followed by a Hung Parliament. Again the voters rejected the Status Quo but didn't agree on what should replace it. We're all shrieking about politics being in crisis but ignoring the fact the electorate keeps voting for crisis.
Remind me: How many MPs did the LibDems win compared to Labour and the Tories?
Twelve, Mr Prasannan, and would have won many more if the Conservatives and Labour had run clean honest campaigns.
The problem was that everybody who feared Corbyn voted Tory; and everybody who feared May voted Labour. Entirely negative voting, and does not show the support you think.
Hang on, I thought the Conservatives did run an honest campaign and that was the problem!
Aren`t they still being investigated by the Electoral Commission for breaking the rules on telephone canvassing?
Probably nothing will come of it - as it didn`t after the 2015 election when they were guilty of overspending, but the case was not brought to trial because it could not be proved that they knew what the were doing.
I really, really hope one of those Conservatives investigated and found innocent sues you, for continuing to impugn their honesty.
We have had this discussion before. They won't sue because they weren't found innocent. The CPS did not prosecute, not because they hadn't overspent, but because they could not prove the candidate/agent knew. The party jolly well knew. The electoral commission was in little doubt, but it didn't come under their jurisdiction to act locally. I think constantly trying to imply nothing happened is ridiculous. I was involved in one of these cases at a local level many years ago. The law is an ass when it come to this stuff. In my case there was blatant and effective cheating, but in fairness to the opponents agent (for whom I had a lot of respect), it was done by a 3rd party and he was I believe unaware. The CPS spent 2 years considering it before dropping it. It wouldn't have been fair on the agent to have prosecuted, but equally it wasn't fair that the result stood. It struck me that provided I wasn't a candidate or agent I could canvas and murder everyone who said they would vote for the other candidate and the result would still stand.
It is a thing I seriously don't understand about the more precious Remoaners: if 52% of your voting fellow countrymen are xenophobic bigots, and half the posters here are swivel eyed loons, what are you doing in the country and on the forum, respectively?
Apparently you are not very good at sums either.
Nobody is saying 52% of the voting public are xenophobic bigots.
You only needed 2% of them to be xenophobic bigots to win the vote...
Not all Leave voters are xenophobic bigots, but all the xenophobic bigots voted Leave
I am pretty certain that is an idea you have just come up with, but the past 18 months of flouncy whining have notably been about Leavers tout court, not about the teeny tiny minority of Leavers who give the vast and perfectly reasonable majority a bad name.
I am pretty certain that is an idea you have just come up with, but the past 18 months of flouncy whining have notably been about Leavers tout court, not about the teeny tiny minority of Leavers who give the vast and perfectly reasonable majority a bad name.
No, you misunderstand.
Everyone who voted Leave is equally culpable for the ensuing shitstorm, but not all of them are xenophobic bigots
The worst elements in Remain and Leave are combining to give us the most pointlessly painful of Brexits.
If May does pay up and gets a Canada style FTA and transition period though ironically the ultra Remainers will be furious we are still leaving the single market and the EU, the ultra Leavers and Kippers will be furious we are paying anything to the EU at all and have to wait until the transition period is over for full Brexit but everyone else will be reasonably satisfied.
Looks as if Ireland are going out of the World Cup but at least they are in good company with Italy
Latest - Ireland 1 - Denmark 3 (72 mins)
Fuck off Ireland. Gone right off them. Fucking whingeing, mewling, German-arse-licking paddy-whacking bunch of pencil-head euro-cucks.
Really. Fuck Ireland. Fuck the Irish. Fuck them and their fucking toilet of a half-formed country. So it's noble and brilliant when the Irish seek their independence from the UK, but it's awful and selfish and mean when the British seek their independence from the EU?
The worst elements in Remain and Leave are combining to give us the most pointlessly painful of Brexits.
If May does pay up and gets a Canada style FTA and transition period though ironically the ultra Remainers will be furious we are still leaving the single market and the EU, the ultra Leavers and Kippers will be furious we are paying anything to the EU at all and have to wait until the transition period is over for full Brexit but everyone else will be reasonably satisfied.
Nor can we ignore the fact the GE result is chronologically superior to the Referendum result. We were asked to endorse May's Brexit position with a bigger majority and we took away the small majority she had. Was the General Election result not also " the will of the people " ? In less than a year the will of the people was a sub 4% winning margin in a national referendum followed by a Hung Parliament. Again the voters rejected the Status Quo but didn't agree on what should replace it. We're all shrieking about politics being in crisis but ignoring the fact the electorate keeps voting for crisis.
Remind me: How many MPs did the LibDems win compared to Labour and the Tories?
Twelve, Mr Prasannan, and would have won many more if the Conservatives and Labour had run clean honest campaigns.
The problem was that everybody who feared Corbyn voted Tory; and everybody who feared May voted Labour. Entirely negative voting, and does not show the support you think.
Hang on, I thought the Conservatives did run an honest campaign and that was the problem!
Aren`t they still being investigated by the Electoral Commission for breaking the rules on telephone canvassing?
Probably nothing will come of it - as it didn`t after the 2015 election when they were guilty of overspending, but the case was not brought to trial because it could not be proved that they knew what the were doing.
No - that has been resolved with no further sction
Has it? I thought the Police were still investigating. To be honest I doubt anything will come of it. I suspect the Police would rather spend there time catching burglars, but last I saw, and it wasn't that long ago, they were still involved. can you update me?
I read this on Quora today, and thought it a great anecdote to share. The question was about the similarities between LBJ and Trump:
In 1961 Lyndon Johnson visited Pakistan on a goodwill tour. He plunged into a crowd and began shaking hands, saying as he did so, “Y’all come to Washington and see us sometime.”
Americans know that a remark like this this is a conversational filler, not intended to be taken literally any more than “How are you?” by anyone other than a doctor is a request for one’s medical history. But a reporter heard Johnson say it to an impoverished camel-cart driver named Bashir Ahmad. The next day the reporter’s newspaper blared the news that the vice president of the United States had invited Ahmad to visit him in Washington.
Now try to envision Donald Trump in Johnson’s place. First, he’s a germophobe. He wouldn’t have shaken hands with a crowd of poor Muslims who only washed their hands when it was time for their daily prayers, and who usually ate with their fingers for lack of flatware.
And even if he’d said, “Y’all come to Washington and see us sometime,” once it was reported in the Pakistani press he would have called it fake news. Nor would he have invited Ahmad to the White House, much less his Trump Tower penthouse.
Yet Johnson made it happen. He arranged for a charitable foundation to fly Ahmad to the United States, where he met President Kennedy and former President Truman. He also visited the LBJ Ranch. As a final gesture, Johnson routed Ahmad’s flight home through Mecca so that Ahmad, who never could have afforded the trip on his own, could fulfill his religious duty to make the hajj. Ahmad was overcome with gratitude, and the president of Pakistan said Johnson had done more than anyone else to improve U.S.-Pakistani relations.
Now imagine Trump in the same situation. He’s not only not improving relations with countries that are wary of us, he’s alienating longtime allies. He’d certainly never think of treating a Muslim to a visit to Mecca. Not only would his base be horrified, but he’d be convinced that while Ahmad was in Islam’s holiest city, he’d turn into a jihadi who would come back to the United States at his first opportunity and commit a terrorist act.
Johnson made a terrible mistake by deciding to escalate the Vietnam war, and it’s unfortunate that this is what he’s remembered for. But in his ability to connect with and help the less fortunate without worrying that he was somehow debasing himself or betraying his social class, he was more of an alpha male than Trump will ever be.
Great story. LBJ was potentially a great President. The incomprehensible bit was escalating Vietnam even though the Generals had decided by 67 that there was only slight chance of victory.
Nor can we ignore the fact the GE result is chronologically superior to the Referendum result. We were asked to endorse May's Brexit position with a bigger majority and we took away the small majority she had. Was the General Election result not also " the will of the people " ? In less than a year the will of the people was a sub 4% winning margin in a national referendum followed by a Hung Parliament. Again the voters rejected the Status Quo but didn't agree on what should replace it. We're all shrieking about politics being in crisis but ignoring the fact the electorate keeps voting for crisis.
Remind me: How many MPs did the LibDems win compared to Labour and the Tories?
Twelve, Mr Prasannan, and would have won many more if the Conservatives and Labour had run clean honest campaigns.
The problem was that everybody who feared Corbyn voted Tory; and everybody who feared May voted Labour. Entirely negative voting, and does not show the support you think.
Hang on, I thought the Conservatives did run an honest campaign and that was the problem!
Aren`t they still being investigated by the Electoral Commission for breaking the rules on telephone canvassing?
Probably nothing will come of it - as it didn`t after the 2015 election when they were guilty of overspending, but the case was not brought to trial because it could not be proved that they knew what the were doing.
No - that has been resolved with no further sction
Has it? I thought the Police were still investigating. To be honest I doubt anything will come of it. I suspect the Police would rather spend there time catching burglars, but last I saw, and it wasn't that long ago, they were still involved. can you update me?
Looks as if Ireland are going out of the World Cup but at least they are in good company with Italy
Latest - Ireland 1 - Denmark 3 (72 mins)
Fuck off Ireland. Gone right off them. Fucking whingeing, mewling, German-arse-licking paddy-whacking bunch of pencil-head euro-cucks.
Really. Fuck Ireland. Fuck the Irish. Fuck them and their fucking toilet of a half-formed country. So it's noble and brilliant when the Irish seek their independence from the UK, but it's awful and selfish and mean when the British seek their independence from the EU?
Haddaway and shite. Fuck off, Ireland.
Call me Dr Suspicious Sean but do I get the feeling you have developed a certain antipathy towards Ireland?
That headline was disgraceful, and the attitude it displays very unfair and unwise in almost all instances, but you are aware that how MPs voted in the House is routinely made available, on the grounds that decision makers must be accountable for their decisions? Entire websites exist for that purpose. Anyone is free to argue that someone should be voted out because of the way they voted in the House, even on a single issue. Of course, going any further than making that argument would be wrong.
The worst elements in Remain and Leave are combining to give us the most pointlessly painful of Brexits.
If May does pay up and gets a Canada style FTA and transition period though ironically the ultra Remainers will be furious we are still leaving the single market and the EU, the ultra Leavers and Kippers will be furious we are paying anything to the EU at all and have to wait until the transition period is over for full Brexit but everyone else will be reasonably satisfied.
Who are these people, and what is their role in the negotiations?
From Gina Miller to Dominic Grieve, from Ms Soubry to Chuka Umunna, from A C Grayling all the way down to you (quite a distance, I confess), there's a cohort of Remainers who simply do not accept that we are leaving, and cannot comprehend that it is happening, and therefore will suspend democracy - literally ignore or subvert the vote - to prevent it occurring. Let us recall Ian mcEwan, the Remainer novelist par excellence, who actively wished for Leave voters to die.
This mad ugly shit then gets Liberal Leavers like me all het up and angry, and then we say, Fuck It, Brexit Whatever - when we should be your natural allies, guiding the UK into a nice soft EFTA Brexit.
And there we are.
Too late now, methinks. Tis done. You lost your collective minds, and we are headed for a crash-out.
No, we are heading for a Canada style FTA despite their moaning.
From Gina Miller to Dominic Grieve, from Ms Soubry to Chuka Umunna, from A C Grayling all the way down to you (quite a distance, I confess), there's a cohort of Remainers who simply do not accept that we are leaving, and cannot comprehend that it is happening, and therefore will suspend democracy - literally ignore or subvert the vote - to prevent it occurring. Let us recall Ian mcEwan, the Remainer novelist par excellence, who actively wished for Leave voters to die.
I guess you have been at the vino this evening Sean, but even you must grasp that none of the people in your list have actually stopped, averted, changed and altered Brexit in any way.
The Brexit now being delivered, that you voted for, is driven by the Brexiteers.
However hard they try, I am not yet convinced that the Brexiteer line "Remainers are to blame for Brexit being rubbish" is actually going to work.
Gold star for effort though
"Remainers are to blame for Brexit" works for me. Do you blame Iceland or England for England losing to Iceland last year?
And we are, as some politician once observed, all in this together. If you think Remainers will get time off Brexit for good behaviour you are in for a rude surprise.
However hard they try, I am not yet convinced that the Brexiteer line "Remainers are to blame for Brexit being rubbish" is actually going to work.
Gold star for effort though
"Remainers are to blame for Brexit" works for me. Do you blame Iceland or England for England losing to Iceland last year?
And we are, as some politician once observed, all in this together. If you think Remainers will get time off Brexit for good behaviour you are in for a rude surprise.
There's a thread in there comparing Theresa May to Roy Hodgson.
However hard they try, I am not yet convinced that the Brexiteer line "Remainers are to blame for Brexit being rubbish" is actually going to work.
Gold star for effort though
"Remainers are to blame for Brexit" works for me. Do you blame Iceland or England for England losing to Iceland last year?
And we are, as some politician once observed, all in this together. If you think Remainers will get time off Brexit for good behaviour you are in for a rude surprise.
There's a thread in there comparing Theresa May to Roy Hodgson.
From Gina Miller to Dominic Grieve, from Ms Soubry to Chuka Umunna, from A C Grayling all the way down to you (quite a distance, I confess), there's a cohort of Remainers who simply do not accept that we are leaving, and cannot comprehend that it is happening, and therefore will suspend democracy - literally ignore or subvert the vote - to prevent it occurring. Let us recall Ian mcEwan, the Remainer novelist par excellence, who actively wished for Leave voters to die.
I guess you have been at the vino this evening Sean, but even you must grasp that none of the people in your list have actually stopped, averted, changed and altered Brexit in any way.
The Brexit now being delivered, that you voted for, is driven by the Brexiteers.
Brexiters certainly must take the lion's share of responsibility. But your insistence that those contributing to the political atmosphere and context are therefore irrelevant is an odd one - to take but one example, a very good, in my view, impact had by a Remainer was the Gina Miller case. That was a positive impact on the scrutinising of Brexit at the least. Whether that has as a result led to any effective change in stance or delivery of Brexit, or any other pressurizing from remainer elements has, for good or ill, is I think a question open to debate, but you do remainers a disservice by suggesting they have had no influence on the way Brexit has been attempted to be delivered.
Who are these people, and what is their role in the negotiations?
From Gina Miller to Dominic Grieve, from Ms Soubry to Chuka Umunna, from A C Grayling all the way down to you (quite a distance, I confess), there's a cohort of Remainers who simply do not accept that we are leaving, and cannot comprehend that it is happening, and therefore will suspend democracy - literally ignore or subvert the vote - to prevent it occurring. Let us recall Ian mcEwan, the Remainer novelist par excellence, who actively wished for Leave voters to die.
This mad ugly shit then gets Liberal Leavers like me all het up and angry, and then we say, Fuck It, Brexit Whatever - when we should be your natural allies, guiding the UK into a nice soft EFTA Brexit.
And there we are.
Too late now, methinks. Tis done. You lost your collective minds, and we are headed for a crash-out.
No, we are heading for a Canada style FTA despite their moaning.
From knowing exactly why people voted for Brexit to calling with certainty the type of deal we will get.
Who are these people, and what is their role in the negotiations?
From Gina Miller to Dominic Grieve, from Ms Soubry to Chuka Umunna, from A C Grayling all the way down to you (quite a distance, I confess), there's a cohort of Remainers who simply do not accept that we are leaving, and cannot comprehend that it is happening, and therefore will suspend democracy - literally ignore or subvert the vote - to prevent it occurring. Let us recall Ian mcEwan, the Remainer novelist par excellence, who actively wished for Leave voters to die.
This mad ugly shit then gets Liberal Leavers like me all het up and angry, and then we say, Fuck It, Brexit Whatever - when we should be your natural allies, guiding the UK into a nice soft EFTA Brexit.
And there we are.
Too late now, methinks. Tis done. You lost your collective minds, and we are headed for a crash-out.
No, we are heading for a Canada style FTA despite their moaning.
From knowing exactly why people voted for Brexit to calling with certainty the type of deal we will get.
That should please those who voted to Leave because they felt left behind and abandoned by the global elite.
They will still get the controls on unskilled workers they want so they will be fine with that
And the winner of the Triumph Hurdle next year?
It is not German bankers workers in Dagenham and Burnley and Hartlepool and Wolverhampton were competing with but Eastern Europeans willing to work for low wages and do long hours.
That should please those who voted to Leave because they felt left behind and abandoned by the global elite.
They will still get the controls on unskilled workers they want so they will be fine with that
And the winner of the Triumph Hurdle next year?
It is not German bankers workers in Dagenham and Burnley and Hartlepool and Wolverhampton were competing with but Eastern Europeans willing to work for low wages and do long hours.
If you're not watching the debate on BBC Parliament, Raab (Con, Esher, Leave) and Grieve (Con, Beaconsfield, Remain) are on top of their briefs. Haven't heard much from shadow BrexSec Paul Blomfield (Lab, Sheffield C, Remain) but what he has said has been good.
Bob Neill (Con, Chiselhurst, Remain) showing exactly the sort of approach one would welcome from a disappointed remainer who wants to make the best of it.
Fairly pedestrian stuff from the rest, quite frankly. 3 of the 4 I've picked out as doing well are lawyers - why do we bemoan the presence of lawyers in parliament when their major role there is debating legislation?
PS Preet Gill (Lab, Edgbaston, Remain) reading a question about transition when the amendment is about interpretation of post-brexit CJEU jurisprudence. Not impressed. Nor is the Dep Speaker, who just called the next q.
That should please those who voted to Leave because they felt left behind and abandoned by the global elite.
They will still get the controls on unskilled workers they want so they will be fine with that
And the winner of the Triumph Hurdle next year?
It is not German bankers workers in Dagenham and Burnley and Hartlepool and Wolverhampton were competing with but Eastern Europeans willing to work for low wages and do long hours.
Earning the minimum wage.
Yes and that reduced demand for just above minimum wage jobs
That should please those who voted to Leave because they felt left behind and abandoned by the global elite.
They will still get the controls on unskilled workers they want so they will be fine with that
And the winner of the Triumph Hurdle next year?
It is not German bankers workers in Dagenham and Burnley and Hartlepool and Wolverhampton were competing with but Eastern Europeans willing to work for low wages and do long hours.
Earning the minimum wage.
Yes and that reduced demand for just above minimum wage jobs
That is the fault of the minimum wage not of the foreigners whose presence you dislike so much.
That should please those who voted to Leave because they felt left behind and abandoned by the global elite.
They will still get the controls on unskilled workers they want so they will be fine with that
And the winner of the Triumph Hurdle next year?
It is not German bankers workers in Dagenham and Burnley and Hartlepool and Wolverhampton were competing with but Eastern Europeans willing to work for low wages and do long hours.
Earning the minimum wage.
Yes and that reduced demand for just above minimum wage jobs
That is the fault of the minimum wage not of the foreigners whose presence you dislike so much.
What is remotely xenophobic about wanting a points based system so we have immigration based on what we actually need? Something a diehard Remoaner like you cannot fathom and Blair obviously could not fathom either in 2004 when he failed to impose transition controls on immigration from the new accession countries.
Once the immigration controls are implemented the minimum wage will really be again what it was intended for, a minimum wage.
That should please those who voted to Leave because they felt left behind and abandoned by the global elite.
They will still get the controls on unskilled workers they want so they will be fine with that
And the winner of the Triumph Hurdle next year?
It is not German bankers workers in Dagenham and Burnley and Hartlepool and Wolverhampton were competing with but Eastern Europeans willing to work for low wages and do long hours.
Earning the minimum wage.
Yes and that reduced demand for just above minimum wage jobs
That is the fault of the minimum wage not of the foreigners whose presence you dislike so much.
What is remotely xenophobic about wanting a points based system so we have immigration based on what we actually need? Something a diehard Remoaner like you cannot fathom and Blair obviously could not fathom either in 2004 when he failed to impose transition controls on immigration from the new accession countries.
Once the immigration controls are implemented the minimum wage will really be again what it was intended for, a minimum wage.
Looks as if Ireland are going out of the World Cup but at least they are in good company with Italy
Latest - Ireland 1 - Denmark 3 (72 mins)
Fuck off Ireland. Gone right off them. Fucking whingeing, mewling, German-arse-licking paddy-whacking bunch of pencil-head euro-cucks.
Really. Fuck Ireland. Fuck the Irish. Fuck them and their fucking toilet of a half-formed country. So it's noble and brilliant when the Irish seek their independence from the UK, but it's awful and selfish and mean when the British seek their independence from the EU?
Haddaway and shite. Fuck off, Ireland.
I will be in Dublin on Thursday. I will tell them that you are very angry with them!
Comments
Latest - Ireland 1 - Denmark 3 (72 mins)
Most would accept it as the price of a FTA.
Nobody is saying 52% of the voting public are xenophobic bigots.
You only needed 2% of them to be xenophobic bigots to win the vote...
Not all Leave voters are xenophobic bigots, but all the xenophobic bigots voted Leave
https://twitter.com/rvawonk/status/930528220662857728
And I assume Emma Dent Coad and most of Momentum did as well.
So that's a fair number of people who could pass for xenophobic bigots in a clear light whom I have the embarrassment of admitting voted the same way as me.
https://twitter.com/isaby/status/930548238033223681
Everyone who voted Leave is equally culpable for the ensuing shitstorm, but not all of them are xenophobic bigots
And Ireland lost 1 - 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucguJvuKmQg
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/930542395254542337
Gold star for effort though
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/930551194887622662
The Brexit now being delivered, that you voted for, is driven by the Brexiteers.
You won. SUCK IT UP!
https://twitter.com/sfmnemonic/status/930550513187409921
And we are, as some politician once observed, all in this together. If you think Remainers will get time off Brexit for good behaviour you are in for a rude surprise.
That should please those who voted to Leave because they felt left behind and abandoned by the global elite.
Edit - and New Thread, btw.
Now we have the spectacle of "It's Mummy's fault I burnt my hand, cos she told me the stove was hot, which MADE ME TOUCH IT!"
Are Brexiteers really so ashamed of their vote any attempt at transference is worth a go?
NEW THREAD
Truly your posts are the gift that keeps giving.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
Even Barnier has said we will get a Canada style deal.
http://www.cityam.com/274440/barnier-floats-canada-deal-post-brexit-model-risk-damaging
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/magazine/how-the-resistance-helped-democrats-dominate-virginia.html
Bob Neill (Con, Chiselhurst, Remain) showing exactly the sort of approach one would welcome from a disappointed remainer who wants to make the best of it.
Fairly pedestrian stuff from the rest, quite frankly. 3 of the 4 I've picked out as doing well are lawyers - why do we bemoan the presence of lawyers in parliament when their major role there is debating legislation?
PS Preet Gill (Lab, Edgbaston, Remain) reading a question about transition when the amendment is about interpretation of post-brexit CJEU jurisprudence. Not impressed. Nor is the Dep Speaker, who just called the next q.
Once the immigration controls are implemented the minimum wage will really be again what it was intended for, a minimum wage.