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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bad for the Tories – good for the LDs: This week’s Local By-El

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,098
    Broadcom announces it's returning to the US...

    Yay! Lots of new jobs!

    Broadcom announces it's buying its biggest competitor, and now it's a US company we can reasonably assume that the purchase will be allowed.

    I wouldn't like to be a wireless engineer in San Diego today.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,163
    edited November 2017
    kle4 said:

    A primary system would be good, an end to FPTP would also help. Too many folk with jobs for life in safe seats.
    I'm not opposed to either of those things being implemented, although frankly I don't think it would change the culture of our politics all that much, I just think it would be a fairer system.

    DH start.
    There's no ideal system (other than AV, obviously).

    Forms of list PR produce even greater reliance on party patronage, while open lists and STV (and primaries) incentivise pork-barrelling.

    Edit - I've messed up the nesting of the post. Apologies.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    edited November 2017
    kle4 said:

    And yet both our mainis would win. And how do we get that? It's not as though the public does not reward adversarial yah boo. In fact they prefer it when parties vilify their opponents.
    It would likely take a weak Corbyn government, following a narrow defeat of a rightwing Conservative Party (perhaps led by Boris then Rees-Mogg), to pave the way for a British Macron (probably Umunna). Much as it took a weak Hollande Presidency and government following a narrow defeat of the rightwing Sarkozy and Les Republicains to pave the way for Macron, the Socialists having nominated the leftwing Hamon and Les Republicains the rightwing Fillon.

    It is not impossible the USA could similarly see a centrist candidate emerge sooner rather than later, especially if the next election is Trump/Pence v Sanders/Warren as now looks likely.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,184
    HYUFD said:

    Hunt is bringing in large numbers of nursing associates who will be trained and ready to enter the NHS with NMC registration by 2019 as well as expanding training places for nurses.

    Where are they coming from HYUFD?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317
    Chameleon said:

    Apparently Channel 4 had a fresh set of allegation against a Tory MP ready to run tonight: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNu2Tl2UQAAtzAY.jpg

    Elphicke?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,098
    The expenses clock starts ticking. They might regret that in about four and a half years time.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,184
    Chameleon said:

    Apparently Channel 4 had a fresh set of allegation against a Tory MP ready to run tonight: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNu2Tl2UQAAtzAY.jpg


    It says "Watch Channel 4 News at 7" - old news?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353



    There's no ideal system (other than AV, obviously).

    Forms of list PR produce even greater reliance on party patronage, while open lists and STV (and primaries) incentivise pork-barrelling.

    As you say no electoral system is perfect. Nor are procedures. That's why I'm sceptical about any proposals that changing either will change problems in our political culture. Some aspects might improve, others might get worse, but a lot of the culture has seemingly little to do either with the electoral system or procedure.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,803
    Just caught up with last nights This Week...

    Think its safe to assume Harriet won't be appearing again anytime soon... ;)
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    rcs1000 said:

    The expenses clock starts ticking. They might regret that in about four and a half years time.
    Are you sure you are quite up to date on that one, Mr Smithson? I thought the rules had changed.
  • rcs1000 said:

    The expenses clock starts ticking. They might regret that in about four and a half years time.
    That was changed a while ago.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    HYUFD said:

    Hunt is bringing in large numbers of nursing associates who will be trained and ready to enter the NHS with NMC registration by 2019 as well as expanding training places for nurses.
    But since bursaries for nurse training were withdrawn by Osborne and their pay has been held down as an austerity measure it is much harder to attract students to train as nurses.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600


    Where are they coming from HYUFD?
    The UK, nursing associates don't need a degree so it costs less to train them and they don't need to worry about student fees.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    edited November 2017

    But since bursaries for nurse training were withdrawn by Osborne and their pay has been held down as an austerity measure it is much harder to attract students to train as nurses.
    Which is why the nursing associate route offers a cheaper alternative if they are put off by student fees and loans. The public sector pay cap is also likely to end in the Budget and nurses will get a pay rise above 1% for the first time in 7 years.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    How many more since 2010
    There aren't more, there are fewer.
    May 2010 317,657
    July 2017 315,485

    There has been a slight increase in WTEs of 0.1% - only problem being that the number of patients has increased by about 10% in that time.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264


    It says "Watch Channel 4 News at 7" - old news?
    It got retracted
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    HYUFD said:

    Hunt is bringing in large numbers of nursing associates who will be trained and ready to enter the NHS with NMC registration by 2019 as well as expanding training places for nurses.
    Nursing associates are not nurses. Those who will consider getting £9k+ into debt now will not be qualified nurses until 2020. The staff are need now. Like Hunt always does he talks about the safest system in the world but does nothing to support his empty rhetoric.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,184
    Chameleon said:

    It got retracted
    Ah right, one potentially to resurface then.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Chris_A said:

    Nursing associates are not nurses. Those who will consider getting £9k+ into debt now will not be qualified nurses until 2020. The staff are need now. Like Hunt always does he talks about the safest system in the world but does nothing to support his empty rhetoric.
    @HYUFD likes his tractor stats to prove everything is rosy.

    The truth is less so:

    https://twitter.com/NHAparty/status/924609940689440768
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Staffing data here if anyone's interested https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30100
    And Hunt has the gall to bleat about greater productivity is needed if we're to get a fair pay award.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    HYUFD said:

    Which is why the nursing associate route offers a cheaper alternative if they are put off by student fees and loans. The public sector pay cap is also likely to end in the Budget and nurses will get a pay rise above 1% for the first time in 7 years.
    I believe the cap has already been lifted for nurses (and police). However the government has not allocated any money to cover pay rises above 1% so either pay will not rise or cuts will have to be found elsewhere in the NHS to cover the gap.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    HYUFD said:

    The UK, nursing associates don't need a degree so it costs less to train them and they don't need to worry about student fees.
    So you're at the dentists reception and they say that the dentist has gone back to Croatia but don't worry we've got this lovey chap, a dental associate, he's not had all the training of a dentist but I'm sure he'll do a grand job. Or you're buying a house and get offered a legal associate to act for you. Or are having a new extension and the Architect Associate (much cheaper to train, not quite got all the knowledge) draws up the plans for you.

    Pure dumbing down, plain and simple.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Chris_A said:

    So you're at the dentists reception and they say that the dentist has gone back to Croatia but don't worry we've got this lovey chap, a dental associate, he's not had all the training of a dentist but I'm sure he'll do a grand job. Or you're buying a house and get offered a legal associate to act for you. Or are having a new extension and the Architect Associate (much cheaper to train, not quite got all the knowledge) draws up the plans for you.

    Pure dumbing down, plain and simple.
    Not so far from me:

    https://twitter.com/ShaunLintern/status/926084569278840833
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    HYUFD said:

    Which is why the nursing associate route offers a cheaper alternative if they are put off by student fees and loans. The public sector pay cap is also likely to end in the Budget and nurses will get a pay rise above 1% for the first time in 7 years.
    Don't forget it was 0% for 3 of those years. And it will still be a real terms pay cut. My bet is that Hunt will try the same trick as with the police officers and offer a non-consolidated top-up for this year only. the DoH have form in this respect.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    Chris_A said:

    Nursing associates are not nurses. Those who will consider getting £9k+ into debt now will not be qualified nurses until 2020. The staff are need now. Like Hunt always does he talks about the safest system in the world but does nothing to support his empty rhetoric.
    They will be able to do most of what nurses do actually.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Not so far from me:

    https://twitter.com/ShaunLintern/status/926084569278840833
    The next Mid Staffs?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600

    I believe the cap has already been lifted for nurses (and police). However the government has not allocated any money to cover pay rises above 1% so either pay will not rise or cuts will have to be found elsewhere in the NHS to cover the gap.
    It hasn't for nurses but will be in the Budget.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    Chris_A said:

    So you're at the dentists reception and they say that the dentist has gone back to Croatia but don't worry we've got this lovey chap, a dental associate, he's not had all the training of a dentist but I'm sure he'll do a grand job. Or you're buying a house and get offered a legal associate to act for you. Or are having a new extension and the Architect Associate (much cheaper to train, not quite got all the knowledge) draws up the plans for you.

    Pure dumbing down, plain and simple.
    Oh for goodness sake you do not need a phd to be a nurse. 40 years ago most nurses trained on the wards and did not have a degree. Same with the police and Police Community Support Officers do an excellent job as Nursing Associates will.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    HYUFD said:

    They will be able to do most of what nurses do actually.
    They are NOT nurses.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Chris_A said:

    The next Mid Staffs?
    I don't think so. Better to have band 4 NA's rather than unfilled band 5 RGN's. at my Trust 10% of nursing jobs are infilled, probably Wolves no different.

    Mid Staffs Trust was wound up this week:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/925627274094940160

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    Chris_A said:

    They are NOT nurses.
    To almost all extent and purposes they will be and if they ultimately want to do a year or so more training after a few years being a registered nursing associate to become a registered nurse they can do.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    Chris_A said:

    Don't forget it was 0% for 3 of those years. And it will still be a real terms pay cut. My bet is that Hunt will try the same trick as with the police officers and offer a non-consolidated top-up for this year only. the DoH have form in this respect.
    Wages across the board are still rising below inflation, including in the private sector, so it is not as if there are vast wage increases elsewhere in the economy and a land of milk and honey outside the public sector.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    HYUFD said:



    Oh for goodness sake you do not need a phd to be a nurse. 40 years ago most nurses trained on the wards and did not have a degree. Same with the police and Police Community Support Officers do an excellent job as Nursing Associates will.

    You don't, but some nurses do have PhDs. Just under 40 years ago you could fit the entire drug formulary in the UK into 329 pages. My latest one has 1,878. 40 years ago there was no digital imaging, 3-D scans, MRI, CT. 40 years ago medicine was much simpler but still if you want the cheapest and less-educated practitioners then fine.

    Why not ask the Chief Constable of Norfolk about the merits of PCSOs? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/19/first-police-force-britain-set-axe-pcsos-amid-falling-budgets/
  • PClipp said:

    Are you sure you are quite up to date on that one, Mr Smithson? I thought the rules had changed.
    Yes, despite the continuing practice of referring to selected candidates as PPCs, spend is regulated now based on timeframes not on a declaration of candidacy.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    HYUFD said:

    To almost all extent and purposes they will be and if they ultimately want to do a year or so more training after a few years being a registered nursing associate to become a registered nurse they can do.
    I don't know how I can put this any more simply. THEY ARE NOT NURSES.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237



    I don't think so. Better to have band 4 NA's rather than unfilled band 5 RGN's. at my Trust 10% of nursing jobs are infilled, probably Wolves no different.

    Mid Staffs Trust was wound up this week:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/925627274094940160

    I thought it ceased to exist years ago, subsumed into North Mids?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    Oh for goodness sake you do not need a phd to be a nurse. 40 years ago most nurses trained on the wards and did not have a degree. Same with the police and Police Community Support Officers do an excellent job as Nursing Associates will.
    Medicine and Nursing have both moved on over the last 40 years, particularly in terms of technology.

    NA's will help fill the gap, but are really a reinvention of the SEN grade.

    Operations cancelled because of staff shortages have risen sharply last year:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-staff-shortages-blame-cancelled-operations-risk-children-young-people-labour-a7844241.html

    I live with this sort of stuff every day. It is bloody depressing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    Chris_A said:

    I don't know how I can put this any more simply. THEY ARE NOT NURSES.
    They are around 90% nurses and will do most of the functions and activities nurses do and be registered with the NMC.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Chris_A said:

    I thought it ceased to exist years ago, subsumed into North Mids?
    It has been a paper organisation winding up liabilities before extinction this week.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    Chris_A said:

    You don't, but some nurses do have PhDs. Just under 40 years ago you could fit the entire drug formulary in the UK into 329 pages. My latest one has 1,878. 40 years ago there was no digital imaging, 3-D scans, MRI, CT. 40 years ago medicine was much simpler but still if you want the cheapest and less-educated practitioners then fine.

    Why not ask the Chief Constable of Norfolk about the merits of PCSOs? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/19/first-police-force-britain-set-axe-pcsos-amid-falling-budgets/
    So what, if they want to do a PhD in their spare time fine but being a nurse is not rocket science and a key element is practical contact with patients in the wards.
    Chris_A said:

    You don't, but some nurses do have PhDs. Just under 40 years ago you could fit the entire drug formulary in the UK into 329 pages. My latest one has 1,878. 40 years ago there was no digital imaging, 3-D scans, MRI, CT. 40 years ago medicine was much simpler but still if you want the cheapest and less-educated practitioners then fine.

    Why not ask the Chief Constable of Norfolk about the merits of PCSOs? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/19/first-police-force-britain-set-axe-pcsos-amid-falling-budgets/
    PCSOs do most of the job of the police and can arrest anyone without a warrant they suspect of committing an indictable offence and can use reasonable force to do so and can use handcuffs to do so. They can also control traffic, issue penalty charge notices etc.

    If the Norfolk Chief Constable wants to expand his officers by removing some PCSOs that is up to him but there is not a vast difference between them apart from the officers do the final interview.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600

    Medicine and Nursing have both moved on over the last 40 years, particularly in terms of technology.

    NA's will help fill the gap, but are really a reinvention of the SEN grade.

    Operations cancelled because of staff shortages have risen sharply last year:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-staff-shortages-blame-cancelled-operations-risk-children-young-people-labour-a7844241.html

    I live with this sort of stuff every day. It is bloody depressing.
    Whinge, whinge, whinge. Of course in actual fact the Tories are spending an extra £8 billion on the NHS while cutting the deficit your Labour Party left.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Kelvin Hopkins was one of just seven Labour MPs who were strongly in favour of Brexit, the others being Campbell, Field, Hoey, Mann, Skinner and Stringer.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2017
    This is an excellent article;

    https://www.conservativehome.com/thinktankcentral/2017/11/carys-roberts-to-win-over-young-people-conservatives-must-spread-capital-ownership.html

    The problem is the tory client vote won't have any of it. The dementia tax didn't go anywhere near far enough.
  • Chameleon said:

    It got retracted
    Because referred to the police perhaps?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Their options are as wide open as Harvey Weinstein's bath robe.
  • htt9htt9 Posts: 9
    Can you all feel the buildup to the 5th November?

    The Cryzine piece on Boris Johnson (I probably shouldn't link to it) contains no new info, but for its sheer viciousness it could hit home. He really "should" sue, but maybe can't?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,953
    Scott_P said:
    One assumes Cyprus will feature heavily in the final season.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,160
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/sopandeb/status/926630916448976897

    Rog will still tell us nothing to see here and Kev has handled this situation perfectly.....
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,615
    HYUFD said:



    Whinge, whinge, whinge. Of course in actual fact the Tories are spending an extra £8 billion on the NHS while cutting the deficit your Labour Party left.

    We need an explicitly political discussion about how much we want to pay in taxes for the NHS and what kind of service we expect. It’s time to stop ducking behind efficiency savings and come out and say- you need to pay more or you need to expect less.

    The reality is the minuscule NHS funding increases are far outstripped by rising demand pressures.
    So why don’t Tories come out and say it - ‘we want a managed decline of service in the NHS’.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,615
    Hardly news that Brexiteers disagree with each other.

    I do wonder though whether food rotting in fields - if indeed that does happen/is happening - will have a cut through with elderly voters.

    My sense is that they often have a very visceral reaction to waste...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    rcs1000 said:

    Broadcom announces it's returning to the US...

    Yay! Lots of new jobs!

    Broadcom announces it's buying its biggest competitor, and now it's a US company we can reasonably assume that the purchase will be allowed.

    I wouldn't like to be a wireless engineer in San Diego today.
    Yeah, there was all sorts of speculation around yesterday as to why Broadcom wanted to base itself back in the US, it was obviously not just so they could pay more tax.
This discussion has been closed.